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People with 400+ ranks totalFollow

#1 Apr 22 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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How many total class ranks do you have? Are you an alt-a-holic or a power gamer?

I have 480 ranks total not including shield skill, 523 including shield skill.
I am an alt-a-holic heres my proof.
I play a lot but im not effecient I have been in a leve link party less than 5 times total in my history of playing this game. I play mainly solo or duo(with the wife) Limsa is still my home even though not many other people stay there. I am up to date on my storyline and class quests(yes all 14 of them). I play the game the way I want to with little thought of doing things to maximize my SP per hour. I have 0 R50s.
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#2 Apr 22 2011 at 7:11 AM Rating: Good
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Well, it's refreshing to hear someone who do what they want, despite it not being the most efficient way to do it. I usually do leves with my two friends, and we very rarely do them in Ul'dah. We actually have fun doing them, cause we're not doing the same three leves over and over.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 9:12am by Mugamaga
#3 Apr 22 2011 at 7:24 AM Rating: Good
538 Ranks total across 3 Characters. Personally, if your having fun, do whatever you want. Who cares what the "norm" is.
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#4 Apr 22 2011 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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293 Ranks on 1 character, that's it!!!!

I dont do alts if I can prevent it and as with FFXI my character allows me to do everytging in the game.

The whole rank counting (like FFXIVPro) is not very acurate either because to finish rank 49 u probbaly need as much SP as from 1 to 30.

Personally, instead of comparing myself to others I prefer FFXIV Pads to check my own development and I just went over 14% of possible achievements so who said there is nothing to do in game? lol

I know, I know... grind is not content!
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#5 Apr 22 2011 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Original character I deleted had 400+. This one has 416(only 400+ thanks to 30 shield). I've made & deleted quite a few other goof-off characters along the way too. Checking out other servers & a few different playstyles(Only DoH, or DoL). I still kinda play it like a beta test in some ways = D

No r50 classes in any of that...



Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 10:26am by TwistedOwl
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#6 Apr 22 2011 at 8:15 AM Rating: Decent
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TwistedOwl wrote:
Original character I deleted had 400+. This one has 416(only 400+ thanks to 30 shield). I've made & deleted quite a few other goof-off characters along the way too. Checking out other servers & a few different playstyles(Only DoH, or DoL). I still kinda play it like a beta test in some ways = D


Why didn't you just remake Leeloo :( Why a big black Galka? Whyyyy!?

Oh and PRO says I have 870 ranks total on this character, and I also play an alt with my friend because most of my DoWs are above their rank.

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 10:17am by Riniaru
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TERA looks tasty...
#7 Apr 22 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Well aren't you awesome!

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#8 Apr 22 2011 at 8:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Riniaru wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
Original character I deleted had 400+. This one has 416(only 400+ thanks to 30 shield). I've made & deleted quite a few other goof-off characters along the way too. Checking out other servers & a few different playstyles(Only DoH, or DoL). I still kinda play it like a beta test in some ways = D


Why didn't you just remake Leeloo :( Why a big black Galka? Whyyyy!?

Oh and PRO says I have 870 ranks total on this character, and I also play an alt with my friend because most of my DoWs are above their rank.


I was wonderin' if you & late would answer this lol. You guys have more ranks showing on your banners than some have total = (

I do kinda miss Leeloo, she was more fun. Especially the emotes. Galka emotes are booooooooooring. I have a male taru alt on another server I've been playing recently. Only doing DoM, Fishing, Cooking & Alchemy. He's fun. If they're serious about adding the missing genders I may have to make a female roegadyn = D
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#9 Apr 22 2011 at 8:37 AM Rating: Default
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Solaris is Edward and I am Alphonse ; ;
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#10 Apr 22 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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i have to many ranks that i care to bother counting =P 3 char's total added up prolly in the 2000 range
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FinalFanXIV = Fighter McWarrior
All we are missing is Thief, Clan Khee'Bler and we will have the full Light Warriors party.
#11 Apr 22 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Good
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I thought for sure I'd have 400+ since I've played since launch but according to lodestone only 312. My biggest problem was that I could never get into crafting.
#12 Apr 22 2011 at 5:18 PM Rating: Decent
I never really cared about having more ranks or whatever. But for the record, not playing for 4 out of the last 7 months didn't help my score. Not to mention I am just now starting to play DoW/M on my main... heh.
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#13 Apr 22 2011 at 5:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Late, Hame, and Solaris. I was just wondering, how many hours per day do you play to have ranks like that?
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#14 Apr 22 2011 at 7:03 PM Rating: Decent
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546 levels without shield, 618 with shield, spread over 3 characters.

Between Cid, Solaris, Late, and Hame, I'm feeling rather inadequate. :)
#15 Apr 22 2011 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
Transmigration wrote:
Late, Hame, and Solaris. I was just wondering, how many hours per day do you play to have ranks like that?

I play close to 12 hours a day (sort of). But I also spend a lot of time talking to people, helping others, browsing and posting on forums, doing research, starting/stopping various projects(like my guides), and then of course dealing with personal life, work, school, and a lot of other random stuff. If I had 2 PC's a -lot- more free time (like enough to play closer to 15+ hours a day) and actually switch jobs everytime I hit fatigue, and enough friends in game to constantly PT with, I can see how you can get everything capped quite fast.

As an example, if you start a new character and play to the exclusion of everything else in life you can get from 1-30 in less than 1 day (yes, even with fatigue, which will kick in at r19 btw...) on any DoW/M job. so in a whopping 1 week you have all DoW/M jobs at or above r30. If you can continue this stretch you can in essence get every DoW/M to Rank 50 in approx 1-2 months. With some kind of crafting bot (come now you people know who you are... >.>) and a second account to farm while it runs you can non-stop level all your crafts to r50 fairly quickly as well with a good farming/craft progression strategy.
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#16 Apr 22 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Transmigration wrote:
Late, Hame, and Solaris. I was just wondering, how many hours per day do you play to have ranks like that?

random hours. 3 time cancer survivor so im permanently disabled. so anywhere from 4 to 16 hours a day. as sometimes i sleep a solid 20 hours here and there
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Mikhalia = Black Mage Evilwizardington
FinalFanXIV = Fighter McWarrior
All we are missing is Thief, Clan Khee'Bler and we will have the full Light Warriors party.
#17 Apr 22 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Default
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FinalFanXIV wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Late, Hame, and Solaris. I was just wondering, how many hours per day do you play to have ranks like that?

random hours. 3 time cancer survivor so im permanently disabled. so anywhere from 4 to 16 hours a day. as sometimes i sleep a solid 20 hours here and there



Your name is Hulk Roegadyn.
You were accusing people of botting 3 days ago, but now you're impersonating the Japanese Leader of the top rated LS on our server.



I don't get you.

[img=http://i51.tinypic.com/29wwu86.png]



EDIT: Also, it sucks you have cancer. I'm sorry I didn't know that. Sucks that you have to abuse it for a joke like this.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 12:29am by levelxplane
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#18 Apr 22 2011 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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why u gotta pick on the disabled bro
http://img268.imageshack.us/i/newbitmapimage2he.png/
theres no joking going on i answered a serious question seriously then you attacked me in game.

like it say in screenshot you accused me of trying to get pity but thats wrong as i have never mentioned it before today.
anyway lets get back on topic shall we

Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 12:38am by FinalFanXIV
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Osarion = Red Mage
Mikhalia = Black Mage Evilwizardington
FinalFanXIV = Fighter McWarrior
All we are missing is Thief, Clan Khee'Bler and we will have the full Light Warriors party.
#19 Apr 23 2011 at 1:13 AM Rating: Good
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586, one character. It's more than I thought it'd be, but also somehow less >.>

I have a buddy pass account that I use for anima/shards, but he's not even a real boy.
#20 Apr 23 2011 at 1:46 AM Rating: Good
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471 total, does that mean I'm a no lifer now? ._.

But but I've been playing since CE, and I have no alt.
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#21 Apr 23 2011 at 4:35 AM Rating: Default
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Late, Hame, and Solaris. I was just wondering, how many hours per day do you play to have ranks like that?

I play close to 12 hours a day (sort of). But I also spend a lot of time talking to people, helping others, browsing and posting on forums, doing research, starting/stopping various projects(like my guides), and then of course dealing with personal life, work, school, and a lot of other random stuff. If I had 2 PC's a -lot- more free time (like enough to play closer to 15+ hours a day) and actually switch jobs everytime I hit fatigue, and enough friends in game to constantly PT with, I can see how you can get everything capped quite fast.

As an example, if you start a new character and play to the exclusion of everything else in life you can get from 1-30 in less than 1 day (yes, even with fatigue, which will kick in at r19 btw...) on any DoW/M job. so in a whopping 1 week you have all DoW/M jobs at or above r30. If you can continue this stretch you can in essence get every DoW/M to Rank 50 in approx 1-2 months. With some kind of crafting bot (come now you people know who you are... >.>) and a second account to farm while it runs you can non-stop level all your crafts to r50 fairly quickly as well with a good farming/craft progression strategy.


I wish. The best you can really do is 1-30 on a class each day, and that's with 7 other people to do good leve runs (ones requiring Adamantine, Devilet, Levinshower) and then go grind on something. It takes more than the entire day to do this, too. So you have to have no obligations in the real world... so, even getting the 7 classes (not counting Sentinel) to 30 in a week is a stretch. From there, 30-50 should take almost 2 weeks (this is if you can get a group that speaks your language to have good leve PTs at BW and at Nanawa/Noph/Horizon)

There aren't really any grind groups pre rank 42ish when you can finally do raptors.

I'd say the most dedicated grinder would take about 4-5 months to get every DoW to 50, and that would, again, require 7 other people trying to do the same thing, on the same time schedule.

I didn't even factor in fatigue for you guys, 1-30 is a little over 300-some-odd thousand SP. 30-40 is somewhere around 600,000SP. Mind you, your weekly threshold before hitting surplus is around 80k, well... you can see how the SP nerfing would get so out of hand even divided by the 7 classes you'd be leveling, it would drive you crazy.


EDIT: as for me, personally. I'm 20 years old, and I work online exclusively. I mostly just hang out at home Mon.-Fri. and play Modern Warfare 2 with friends online and wait for Raptors/Leves in between, I go out really only on weekends. I pretty much did only crafting since the launch, so I'm just now getting caught up on DoWs which should all be 50 within then next couple of months. I've been falling behind a few friends in PRO rankings because I've neglected all 3 DoLs and Cooking (not to mention the 900 points you get for getting a 30 (I'm missing like 6 of those off the top of my head).

So with getting 2 more DoWs to 30, Cooking to 30, and Fishing/BTN/MIN to 30 I should be in the top 30 overall again. But yeah, I've been slackin'.



Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 6:41am by LateReg

Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 6:41am by LateReg
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#22 Apr 23 2011 at 5:43 AM Rating: Default
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Oh no, someones accusing you of botting again Late! :p
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TERA looks tasty...
#23 Apr 23 2011 at 6:15 AM Rating: Default
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qq;;
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#24 Apr 24 2011 at 4:26 AM Rating: Good
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ive got 483 with shield on my 1 char. 454 without shield.
I don't play much though.
#25 Apr 24 2011 at 3:45 PM Rating: Good
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It is odd seeing people with so many ranks though. Seems to defeat the purpose of having various players to fill different roles when so many can do just about everything themselves. Adds to the "this game's a joke" sentiment I think.

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#26 Apr 24 2011 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I think they copied too many ideas from free to play MMOs, and this game has become just that; free to play (oh but I wish ppl would stop going on about this game being free to play, because we all payed for the client fully expecting to pay to play).
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TERA looks tasty...
#27 Apr 25 2011 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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I have 409 ranks before sentinel (436 with it). I'm neither and altaholic nor power gamer, I just enjoy most jobs, and thus have most of them at 20+. Currently trying to focus on PUG so I can have 50 for when having high levels is helpful.
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#28 Apr 25 2011 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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Ok so you do play a lot. I never got past the 30s on any class so I don't have much of an idea of how bad the grind gets. After hearing how tedious it is, I was just surprised to see people with so many 50s.

Anyway, thanks.
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#29 Apr 25 2011 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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Transmigration wrote:
I never got past the 30s on any class so I don't have much of an idea of how bad the grind gets. After hearing how tedious it is, I was just surprised to see people with so many 50s.

DoW/M to 50 is pretty fast now; with Behest and leves you can just about knock out a class to 50 in a month if you have a solid group for each leve reset (granted, this can be difficult to find).

I can't stand to SP anymore by myself, I just do it with someone who only has 3 hours a day during the week, and still it won't be long before we have every DoW/M at 50.
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#30 Apr 26 2011 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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307 and I binned the game for 10 weeks over Nov/Dec/Jan. That is a bit worrying, no wonder I am so pale.

Edited, Apr 26th 2011 5:24am by SolomonGrundy
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#31 Apr 26 2011 at 4:37 AM Rating: Good
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559 with Shield, 509 w/o...

Am I a better person now?
#32 Apr 27 2011 at 5:18 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not suggesting that it'll happen wiin this game, but after being burned in SWG, I'm going to wait for a game to finally settle before cranking out levels in job & crafts. Besides Even if it takes the Devs a year or two to get FFXIV squared away, I'll probably start over from scratch since I enjoy leveling the various jobs & crafts.
#33 Apr 27 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Default
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Honestly the only real reason why people bare resentment to players who have 400+ ranks is because they are jealous that they don't have as much time to play as the people who do. Having more 50's doesn't mean you are a better player (maybe a little more experienced but that means jack squat without end game), it just means they have less things in their life like friends, family, non gaming activities and work occupying their time. Imo total rank # is nothing to be proud or ashamed of.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 1:30pm by TofuReaper

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 1:31pm by TofuReaper
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#34 Apr 27 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Good
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TofuReaper wrote:
Imo total rank # is nothing to be proud or ashamed of.

Also worth mentioning is that total rank is biased towards people who take all classes. Someone who loves Archer, gets it to 50, and complements it with lancer 50 has 100 ranks total. My character Cloe has 400+ ranks, and doesn't even have a single rank 35. Who's "Better" really? I just see the same content over and over, the other guy at least can fight rank 50-60 things in dangerous areas.

I do enjoy being to repair most of my gear and spamming them until I get at least +1 to every slot, which the above player has to pay gil to do instead.
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#35 Apr 27 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Good
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I barely made the cut with my current main character (407), what did I win! :D

P.S. Is anyone else worried that they will max all DoW/M classes and miss out on what could be future high quality low-mid level content? I was just thinking about that recently because all the gear dropped from the new NMs are rank 30-35...I wouldn't have even bothered fighting them if I couldn't use the spoils. I'm half tempted to create an alt for DoW/M and turn my main into a crafter until the game is complete...
#36 Apr 27 2011 at 11:44 AM Rating: Decent
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scorleone wrote:
I barely made the cut with my current main character (407), what did I win! :D

P.S. Is anyone else worried that they will max all DoW/M classes and miss out on what could be future high quality low-mid level content? I was just thinking about that recently because all the gear dropped from the new NMs are rank 30-35...I wouldn't have even bothered fighting them if I couldn't use the spoils. I'm half tempted to create an alt for DoW/M and turn my main into a crafter until the game is complete...


Yea it was set up nicely for me on this new character with most DoW/DoM being 24/25. Right in time to try that new gear out. I do think the ride through the early/middle ranks will be a lot more enjoyable in the future as the game improves & gets filled in. If by then I no longer have classes to use in that range, bring on some new classes!

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 1:45pm by TwistedOwl
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#37 Apr 27 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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scorleone wrote:
P.S. Is anyone else worried that they will max all DoW/M classes and miss out on what could be future high quality low-mid level content? I was just thinking about that recently because all the gear dropped from the new NMs are rank 30-35...I wouldn't have even bothered fighting them if I couldn't use the spoils. I'm half tempted to create an alt for DoW/M and turn my main into a crafter until the game is complete...


To put it bluntly, the people who have leveled everything to 30+ are shafting themselves out of a genuinely fun (or more fun) experience, ie: when the game is ps3 ready, that version will be more fun and potentially less grindy than before.
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#38 Apr 27 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Default
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Well, keep in mind that most of that gear is the best, even for rank 50s.
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#39 Apr 27 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
To put it bluntly, the people who have leveled everything to 30+ are shafting themselves out of a genuinely fun (or more fun) experience, ie: when the game is ps3 ready, that version will be more fun and potentially less grindy than before.

Then they can make an alt, or explore the new content on a higher-level job without having to grind through it.

It seems silly to hold back for better content. By that logic no one should be playing at all right now, since anything we do could potentially have been more fun later.
#40 Apr 27 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Caesura wrote:
Quote:
To put it bluntly, the people who have leveled everything to 30+ are shafting themselves out of a genuinely fun (or more fun) experience, ie: when the game is ps3 ready, that version will be more fun and potentially less grindy than before.

Then they can make an alt, or explore the new content on a higher-level job without having to grind through it.

It seems silly to hold back for better content. By that logic no one should be playing at all right now, since anything we do could potentially have been more fun later.


Well that was my logic when I decided to only do BTN and CRP until I saw some real improvements. I have to say taking all my fighting classes to 20 last week was a really enjoyable experience.
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#41 Apr 27 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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LateReg wrote:
Well, keep in mind that most of that gear is the best, even for rank 50s.

Is it really? I know the Bore's Bane wasn't worth it, the only thing better on it was the +4 STR bonus...all the base stats were considerably less than all my high level axes. But I wouldn't be surprised to find out the Marauder Weapon was one of the only ones not better...just because its the class I picked :/
#42 Apr 27 2011 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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TofuReaper wrote:
scorleone wrote:
P.S. Is anyone else worried that they will max all DoW/M classes and miss out on what could be future high quality low-mid level content? I was just thinking about that recently because all the gear dropped from the new NMs are rank 30-35...I wouldn't have even bothered fighting them if I couldn't use the spoils. I'm half tempted to create an alt for DoW/M and turn my main into a crafter until the game is complete...


To put it bluntly, the people who have leveled everything to 30+ are shafting themselves out of a genuinely fun (or more fun) experience, ie: when the game is ps3 ready, that version will be more fun and potentially less grindy than before.


I am pretty sure they will release atleast 1-3 new classes when PS3 comes out. Us PC users can level the new classes with our new PS3 Brothers!
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#43 Apr 27 2011 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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tpgsoldier wrote:

I am pretty sure they will release atleast 1-3 new classes when PS3 comes out. Us PC users can level the new classes with our new PS3 Brothers!

I hope that's the case Scarface!
#44 Apr 27 2011 at 4:19 PM Rating: Good
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scorleone wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Well, keep in mind that most of that gear is the best, even for rank 50s.

Is it really? I know the Bore's Bane wasn't worth it, the only thing better on it was the +4 STR bonus...all the base stats were considerably less than all my high level axes. But I wouldn't be surprised to find out the Marauder Weapon was one of the only ones not better...just because its the class I picked :/


no, not the ****** weapons lol

Kokoroon's Darkshell Mail << this especially
Conquistador Elmo << this especially
Penance
Seer's Cowl << this especially
paladin's trousers
venerer's gloves or bracers(sp? i forget)
thalasian targe

basically the two body pieces (which are only 35) have way, way better stats then anything near rank 50. Seer's Cowl is especially nice.
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#45 Apr 27 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Currently I'm 521 (474 less shield). It is my goal to get all my remaining crafting and gathering classes to 20 so I can join all the guilds (about 400K sp to go spread over 5 classes). Battle wise I try to only focus on 2 classes at a time, one high and one low.

For those curious about people hitting max cap, I think the character Arc Tea on Mysidia will be the first to get that. They only have about 750,000 sp to go.


#46 Apr 28 2011 at 3:11 AM Rating: Good
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I'm at 443 total. I was playing a solid 6hrs a day until about two months ago.

I don't see myself playing again until they add a lot stuff to do.

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 3:12am by Kirby
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#47 Apr 28 2011 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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What's the point about bragging about your ranks if you don't go all the way to 50. You need 1,781,150 skill points to get to rank 50. It's just 372,150 to reach rank 30.

List your skillpoints instead!
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#48 Apr 28 2011 at 4:32 AM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
What's the point about bragging about your ranks if you don't go all the way to 50. You need 1,781,150 skill points to get to rank 50. It's just 372,150 to reach rank 30.

List your skillpoints instead!

Only if you list yours first!
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TERA looks tasty...
#49 Apr 28 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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20,056,146 SP for me

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#50 Apr 28 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Good
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LateReg wrote:
scorleone wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Well, keep in mind that most of that gear is the best, even for rank 50s.

Is it really? I know the Bore's Bane wasn't worth it, the only thing better on it was the +4 STR bonus...all the base stats were considerably less than all my high level axes. But I wouldn't be surprised to find out the Marauder Weapon was one of the only ones not better...just because its the class I picked :/


no, not the sh*tty weapons lol

Kokoroon's Darkshell Mail << this especially
Conquistador Elmo << this especially
Penance
Seer's Cowl << this especially
paladin's trousers
venerer's gloves or bracers(sp? i forget)
thalasian targe

basically the two body pieces (which are only 35) have way, way better stats then anything near rank 50. Seer's Cowl is especially nice.

I promise I'm not trying to pick on you here, I just want to figure out if I'm missing something because I am dying to wear something other than the Vintage Hauby on my Marauder if I can do so without sacrificing the killer stats that come with it (just not a fan of how they look on my oversized Highlander :/ ).

I compared the stats of the Kokoroon's Darkshell Mail to my Hauby and the Hauby was considerably higher in almost every category. If I remember right, the Darkshell was higher in Elemental Resistance but so is the Vintage Scale Mail & the Scale Mail appeared to be better than Darkshell in every category as well. The Darkshell bonus of +5 Attack & +5 Accuracy was nice, but other than that I'm not seeing where you're getting "way, way better". Please elaborate =P (maybe hidden stats, which SE is known for that I'm not aware of?)

P.S. Anyone know what the difference between STR & ATK is? Would +5 ATK be better than +8 STR???

EDIT: DARKSHELL MAIL VS VINTAGE SCALE MAIL (I figured it was better to compare the Mails since they are similar types of armor)

DARKSHELL ~ rank 35
DEF: 96
MAG DEF: 67
EVA: 24
RESL: 49
ELE RES: 34
BREATH: 4%
SLASH: 2%
BLUNT: 2%
BONUS: HP +20, ATK +5, ACC +5, WATER +4

VINTAGE SCALE MAIL ~ rank 41
DEF: 108
MAG DEF: 75
EVA: 25
RESL: 55
ELE RES: 35
BREATH: 4%
SLASH: 2%
BLUNT: 2%
BONUS: STR +5, MND +5, GATHERING +15,

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 11:42am by scorleone

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 11:42am by scorleone
#51 Apr 28 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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2,120 posts
When in doubt, go with + HP/MP, ACC, ATK, EVA, M.ACC, M.POT, etc. rather than + attributes. That's a simple way to look at it.

In that comparison, +20HP & +5 ATK/ACC looks much, much nicer for what you figure the purpose of wearing such gear is, damage dealing. Replacing the +5MND & +15Gathering that isn't needed.

For the stuff most people spend their time on, behests & leves, defense can be ignored for the better gear bonuses the new pieces offer. That's why they're considered better even @ higher ranks. Of course if you solo or tank a lot, you don't wanna lose all that defense. So it depends on how you play too.



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