Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This Forum is Read Only

Limitations to GamingFollow

#1 Apr 22 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
*
178 posts
I ran across this article (article) recently about how the Korean government is implementing laws to restrict gaming among youths and found it to be very interesting. I neither agree or disagree with what the Korean government is doing, but I believe this is the first time a government is openly addressing the issue of gaming addiction and it may open up the gates for other countries/companies to start similar initiatives. Yes the implementation will be difficult but the fact that a governing body has acknowledged gaming addiction as a problem may lead the future of esports, MMOs in a different direction than where it is today.

Obviously, non-gamers would be strong proponents of these kinda policies, but I'm interested in seeing how the gaming community (specifically a MMO community) would react. And yes, I know that FFXIV isn't really a game that has the appeal or allure to cause people to quit their jobs/skip classes, neglect their children, etc etc.. but many of us playing were once ffxi or WoW vets and those games certainly had what it took to "ruin lives".

Let me know what you think!

This is my first poll so please forgive any weird formatting issues.

Edit: ok obviously the poll failed.. so just voice your opinions lol





Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 12:05pm by lightacadi
#2 Apr 22 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Basically it's the same as with any other "drug" that can be abused.
Many people will vote for a restriction, especially those who have no clue.
Many people will vote against a restriction, especially those who are addicted.
#3 Apr 22 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
It's foolish, to put it simply, and here are few reasons why:

The article says that the law only applies to minors, but it cites one of the catalysts to enacting the law as the misleadingly vivid case of "the death of a newborn through starvation from a couple’s neglect." Now, how many minors also have to take care of a newborn baby? o_O

It also mentions that "popular titles of the genre such as 'Lineage,' are not being included under the new policy," which means that the law only affects minors playing unpopular games... games like "Dungeon and Fighter," (yeah, what the **** is that? XD).

Finally, and this is a flaw with the idea in general, it begs one to ask why everything isn't restricted in the same way. If kids have stayed awake too long playing an online game, then surely they can do the same with television, or with the internet in general. This just seems like another case where video games, because they're still "new and scary" to some people, come under harsher criticism than other media. "Gaming addiction" is not a desperately growing problem, it's really just a few cases whose vividness prompts statistics-ignoring individuals to rapid action.

As always - whether with books, films, television, or video games - imposed censorship is inferior to decent parenting and a reasonably intelligent consumer.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#5 Apr 22 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
Just wait until Governments figure out they can get away with a MMO tax.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#6 Apr 22 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
PerrinofSylph, ****** Superhero wrote:
Just wait until Governments figure out they can get away with a MMO tax.


For some of us that'll be even worse than the *** tax!
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#7 Apr 22 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Select the choice that most closely states your view.
The amount of time spent gaming should be determined by each individual.:39 (70.9%)
Some people are not smart enough to determine healthy life habits. We need the government to restrict their activities.:3 (5.5%)
It's Friday. I don't take polls on Friday.:3 (5.5%)
Some people are not smart enough to determine healthy life habits. We need the game developers to restrict the amount of time players can spend playing games. :0 (0.0%)
Some people are not smart enough to determine healthy life habits. We need the game developers to incentivize healthy playing habits. :10 (18.2%)
Total:55
#8 Apr 22 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
***
2,614 posts
Let the parents parent their children, and let the rest of us control our own lives.

It's horrifying to me that anyone wouldn't be staunchly opposed to this kind of thing.
#9 Apr 22 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Excellent
******
48,733 posts
They're called parents. If some of them did their **** job of raising their kids the problem wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#10 Apr 22 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,636 posts
its up to parents really, but I really don't mind if the government puts a restriction on the amount of time minors get to spend online, so long as it doesn't affect how long adults do. I don't really see how that works, but hey if they can figure it out, thats all up to them.
____________________________


#11 Apr 22 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
Honestly, I sm for it, however, it should be the same for all MMO's, not just a few, and it should go for all ages as well.
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#12 Apr 22 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
Avatar
**
560 posts
Should we also limit how long people play a certain sport like basketball or football? Should we limit how much people walk or run? Before you tell me thats different because those are healthy activities I would like to note that more people have died doing all of those activites than people have died playing video games not to mention injuries. None of these things should be limited.
____________________________


#13 Apr 22 2011 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
*
178 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
It's foolish, to put it simply, and here are few reasons why:

The article says that the law only applies to minors, but it cites one of the catalysts to enacting the law as the misleadingly vivid case of "the death of a newborn through starvation from a couple’s neglect." Now, how many minors also have to take care of a newborn baby? o_O

It also mentions that "popular titles of the genre such as 'Lineage,' are not being included under the new policy," which means that the law only affects minors playing unpopular games... games like "Dungeon and Fighter," (yeah, what the **** is that? XD).

Finally, and this is a flaw with the idea in general, it begs one to ask why everything isn't restricted in the same way. If kids have stayed awake too long playing an online game, then surely they can do the same with television, or with the internet in general. This just seems like another case where video games, because they're still "new and scary" to some people, come under harsher criticism than other media. "Gaming addiction" is not a desperately growing problem, it's really just a few cases whose vividness prompts statistics-ignoring individuals to rapid action.

As always - whether with books, films, television, or video games - imposed censorship is inferior to decent parenting and a reasonably intelligent consumer.


Yeah I noticed the inconsistencies in the law by having loopholes for some of the most popular (and profitable) games in Korea. I'm sure there were some backdoor lobbying going on and a few elected officials came out of this whole ordeal very rich =P

But I think it's gonna be hard to ignore the fact that criticism for gaming addiction is no longer restricted to media and isolated conservative groups anymore and has taken a much bigger stage with governments involved. Granted esports and gaming in Korea is way more rampant than it is in the western nations, I think the debate will only grow bigger over time rather than fade. As much as us gamers wish to be left alone, the issue will catch up to us eventually. Will there be a better counter argument to all these claims that games ruin lives than simply "leave us alone?"


Also thanks smashington for setting up the poll. Not the choices I had in mind but close enough ^^
#14 Apr 22 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
It'd be pretty **** ridiculous if, at a certain time of night, my game cuts off, but I could put down the controller, walk/drive up the road and load up on cigarettes, booze, & perhaps even a gun(depending on where you live). Completely ridiculous...

Quote:
Honestly, I sm for it, however, it should be the same for all MMO's, not just a few, and it should go for all ages as well.

****! = D
____________________________

#15 Apr 22 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
TwistedOwl wrote:
It'd be pretty **** ridiculous if, at a certain time of night, my game cuts off, but I could put down the controller, walk/drive up the road and load up on cigarettes, booze, & perhaps even a gun(depending on where you live). Completely ridiculous...

Quote:
Honestly, I sm for it, however, it should be the same for all MMO's, not just a few, and it should go for all ages as well.

****! = D


Well, I have a personal reason for it. Many years ago, my husband and I let an MMO consume us, yes, I know it wasn't the MMO's fault, I said WE let it consume us. We didn't really know we had an addiction until it almost killed our marriage. So that is why I am for a limitation. He and I still play, but we only play a few times a week, no more than 3 days a week at the most for not more than 3 hours each session.

If people allow it, it is almost like a drug and very addicting. Like cigarettes, booze, and other hard core drugs.

That is just a personal opinion, no need for anyone else to rage me for it. I completely understand when people would not like this. IT would so suck if something like this did occur, not fair to people who can control the time that they play, HOWEVER, I would not be offended or have my feelings hurt if something like this were ever implemented. Not like I am saying "RAWR EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE LIMITED DO I NAOZ!!!!!!!!" Yeesh, can I not have an opinion?

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 6:34pm by LillithaFenimore

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 6:35pm by LillithaFenimore
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#16 Apr 22 2011 at 5:07 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
***
1,246 posts
Limitations to playtime don't necissarily have to mean something the average player or even the hardcore will notice.

If a game developer has ways of telling someone has been playing 24-hours straight, 10 times a month then they really should do something about that. They know full well that making a game with any type of goal attained by building up exp/items/money etc. can lead to obsessive behaviour.



Blaming it on the parents is a bad excuse. Do you expect the parents to be on surveilance 24/7? How do you know your kid hasn't set an alarm to play just after you go to bed? How do you know your kid isn't smart enough to bypass an IP block? How do you know some idiot shop keeper hasn't sold that 18 rated game to your 11 year old kid behind your back?

You can teach a child all the morals under the sun, but if some guy in this kids guild is telling him "dude you NEED to get on and help us tonight!!!!" who do you think he's gonna listen to?
____________________________
Meowth!
#17 Apr 22 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
ditx wrote:
Limitations to playtime don't necissarily have to mean something the average player or even the hardcore will notice.

If a game developer has ways of telling someone has been playing 24-hours straight, 10 times a month then they really should do something about that. They know full well that making a game with any type of goal attained by building up exp/items/money etc. can lead to obsessive behaviour.



Blaming it on the parents is a bad excuse. Do you expect the parents to be on surveilance 24/7? How do you know your kid hasn't set an alarm to play just after you go to bed? How do you know your kid isn't smart enough to bypass an IP block? How do you know some idiot shop keeper hasn't sold that 18 rated game to your 11 year old kid behind your back?

You can teach a child all the morals under the sun, but if some guy in this kids guild is telling him "dude you NEED to get on and help us tonight!!!!" who do you think he's gonna listen to?


Glad I'm not the only one :/ Was beginning to think that I was the only one in the gaming universe who liked this idea :D
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#18 Apr 22 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
***
2,120 posts
LillithaFenimore wrote:

If people allow it, it is almost like a drug and very addicting. Like cigarettes, booze, and other hard core drugs.

That is just a personal opinion, no need for anyone else to rage me for it. I completely understand when people would not like this. IT would so suck if something like this did occur, not fair to people who can control the time that they play, HOWEVER, I would not be offended or have my feelings hurt if something like this were ever implemented. Not like I am saying "RAWR EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE LIMITED DO I NAOZ!!!!!!!!" Yeesh, can I not have an opinion?


Everyone's entitled to their opinion. It's my opinion that you took my joke too seriously, but whatever.

I see a big difference between being "for it" and not minding so much if it ever happened though. Even then I can't understand anyone being okay with government regulation of their free time. Like others have touched on, I think it's an overreaction to prevent bad things from happening because some people couldn't control themselves. They learned their lesson the hard way, no need to go further with it and ***** everyone else over.

There are far worse things than video games that people can be getting into. All the legal ones get are warning labels. Keep sticking those fun disclaimers & age ratings on games and leave it at that.
____________________________

#19 Apr 22 2011 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
I've said this for a very long time, but it really is sad and a little disgusting how personal responsibility/accountability is slowly ebbing away in the world.
#20 Apr 22 2011 at 5:33 PM Rating: Excellent
******
48,733 posts
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I've said this for a very long time, but it really is sad and a little disgusting how personal responsibility/accountability is slowly ebbing away in the world.
I blame video games.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#21 Apr 22 2011 at 5:47 PM Rating: Excellent
lolgaxe wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I've said this for a very long time, but it really is sad and a little disgusting how personal responsibility/accountability is slowly ebbing away in the world.
I blame video games.


I blame rap music! *shakes fist*

Edited, Apr 22nd 2011 4:47pm by Osarion
#22 Apr 22 2011 at 11:23 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
ditx wrote:
How do you know your kid isn't smart enough to bypass an IP block?


Smart enough to bypass an IP block, maybe... smart enough to play online with the modem unplugged... doubtful.

In all seriousness though, if you, as a parent, find that your child's gaming habits are causing them huge problems in their life, just take away the computer/console, either for a while or just at night. Developers and governments shouldn't have to waste resources trying to figure out how to restrict people from doing too much of something they enjoy; overindulgence is damaging to the individual no matter what it is, not just video games, and it's really not up to others to assume responsibility over any and all people who use a product or service more than you think they should. >_>


Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 12:23pm by KaneKitty
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#23 Apr 22 2011 at 11:47 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,313 posts
Honestly, I think the negative effects are overshadowed by the positives. I can't tell you how many people who like myself have used video games as a way to stay out of trouble. That nerd down the street from you that plays video games all day could have been a gangster, in this country at least.
____________________________
Eithne Draocht
My IG: archaicmachinery - Friend me!
#24 Apr 23 2011 at 3:14 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
****
4,506 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Basically it's the same as with any other "drug" that can be abused.
Many people will vote for a restriction, especially those who have no clue.
Many people will vote against a restriction, especially those who are addicted.

And then there's the obvious solution.

If you're only allowed to have a few hours a day of your "drug", you simply have to do other "drugs" on the side. :p

Unless you want to cut directly into people their internet times, or monitor them closely, but... oh wait, depending on north or south they're either communists or republicans. I guess they're "allowed" to do that then...
____________________________
[XI] Surivere of Valefor
[XIV] Sir Surian Bedivere of Behemoth
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2401553/
#25 Apr 23 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
*
142 posts
I am a parent and I am on survielence or have someone that is 24/7! That is what being parent is. You are responsible for your children every moment of their lives until they turn 18. Their is no break from parenting. Parents need to step up and encourage healthy actions. I let my son play video games. He played FFXI with me for awhile, and now he has his own kid games, but I am very careful with the time he is allowed to play and encourage a bike ride with me after gaming. Parents are 100% responsible and expect them to be so every hour of every day. Of course children are going to slip one by every now and then, but that what consequences are for and consequences in of themselves are an excellent teaching opportunity.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 1:58pm by Lostkaws
____________________________
Seraph LVL 80 War,80 RNG, 63 DNC, 40 NIN, 40 sam, 40 thf , 18 MNK

SAN D' Oria Rank 10
#26 Apr 23 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
Lostkaws wrote:
I am a parent and I am on survielence or have someone that is 24/7! That is what being parent is. You are responsible for your children every moment of their lives until they turn 18. Their is no break from parenting. Parents need to step up and encourage healthy actions. I let my son play video games. He played FFXI with me for awhile, and now he has his own kid games, but I am very careful with the time he is allowed to play and encourage a bike ride with me after gaming. Parents are 100% responsible and expect them to be so every hour of every day. Of course children are going to slip one by every now and then, but that what consequences are for and consequences in of themselves are an excellent teaching opportunity.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 1:58pm by Lostkaws



I couldn't agree more. My husband and I watch our daughter like hawks. However, not everyone is as diligent as you and me about being parents. I have a relative (who should NEVER have become a parent), who just lets her kids run wild... I think that it is possible that the few bad apples spoil the entire bunch :/ It could be people like her that are being targeted for this limitation in the country for the proposed banning?
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#27 Apr 24 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,500 posts
Lostkaws wrote:
I am a parent and I am on survielence or have someone that is 24/7! That is what being parent is. You are responsible for your children every moment of their lives until they turn 18. Their is no break from parenting. Parents need to step up and encourage healthy actions. I let my son play video games. He played FFXI with me for awhile, and now he has his own kid games, but I am very careful with the time he is allowed to play and encourage a bike ride with me after gaming. Parents are 100% responsible and expect them to be so every hour of every day. Of course children are going to slip one by every now and then, but that what consequences are for and consequences in of themselves are an excellent teaching opportunity.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 1:58pm by Lostkaws
^This.

I just shake my head and sigh quietly every time I heard my coworkers who have kids:

- "Get this DVD it really makes them quiet"
- "Buy them the new DS it will be like there are no kids in the house"

My sister in law just asked me to set their ps3 to loop videos since her 6 months old gets annoying and doesn't let her join parties in ffxi.

I think a 13 years old playing at 3a.m. on Wednesday is not a sign of gaming addition is actually a sign of bad parenting, mass media are not nanny substitutes if people with small kids can put up with that the problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

It isn't government's responsibility though.

Ken
____________________________
"Maybe it means: you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. Nine-millimeter here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous *** in the Valley of Darkness." - Jules.
FFXIV: Mabel Rand (Gugnir)
FFXI: Kenage, retired.
K&K forever!,
#28 Apr 25 2011 at 1:25 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
32 posts
The only points of view I can respond from would be that of South Korea (which it seems, the article is based around) and UK.

If you take into consideration the education system & gaming culture here in South Korea, maybe you can understand why the government has chosen to do this.

In South Korea there is a PC방 (PC Room) in 90% of buildings, each PC room consisting of 30-200 computers, each about 60% full during off peak hours, 99% full peak time.
An hour playing any game you like costs 1,000krw, which works out to be 0.924$ (£0.559), which is amazingly cheap.

In Korea, there is a huge emphasis on education. Most Korean students, and I seriously mean most, study 6 hours in school, 3 hours at a private academy and spend 3 hours doing their homework. That's if they are lucky enough to attend only 1 academy. Each academy can cost, on average, anywhere between 200,000krw and 700,000krw.

That's an average of 12 hours of education a day, the pressure on them to make the grades to attend the best universities here is immense, and in most cases, can be too much, thus resulting in suicide.

With the demand for good grades so high, a lot of students taking time off school to run into PC rooms, or even outside school when their parents think they should study instead, you can understand the governments feelings towards PC rooms. However, for most students, this is their time to relieve stress from exams and school life.

I personally believe there are much more effective ways to tackle this problem without hurting the industry & providing the much needed time off students need, but right now I don't have the energy to think of them.

But the main point I want to try and make is, before you bash the governments decisions, be it right or wrong, try get a point of view from all angles.
#29 Apr 25 2011 at 8:52 AM Rating: Decent
If you don't have kids your veiws on parenting are invalid.
#30 Apr 25 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Decent
See here I get rated down for stating the obvious. Now I am going to rant like a ****** off Dad.

I don't care how old your are, if you have no kids you are a still a child.

You have free time, you have options. You go to bed late, wake up early. You look at your weekend and think "Hmm, what am I going to do?" Good for fricken you. I wake up at 5am because my daughter fell asleep first and I put a **** video in, ON LOOP, and go back to sleep.

No one wakes you up at 5am.

You are not responsible for feeding anyone. You are not responsible for teaching somethe lessons they need to be succesful at life. You have no fricken idea what it is to be on call 24/7 everyday, all day every f-ing second.

Let me give you some advice so you can ignore it. Don't come on here and tell people how to raise their kids. Don't ever tell a parent how to raise their kids. You don't know sh*t.

You say you have a dog? You think that's like raising a kid? It's not. I don't put dry food and water in a bowl on the floor and say "There's breakfast kids." I don't let the kids out the back door and say, "Go potty" and then go inside and have myself a spot of tea.

No. I gotta tell my kids to go to the bathroom 50 times a day or they will **** in the car, on the couch, in their pants and on their beds. Then, when they still have accidents, it's time to clean out matteresses, change sheets and buy new couches.

Vacuum. All day everyday. Kids like to break bigs things into tiny things and scatter them amongst the largest possible area. You know how many square feet a box of cereal can cover?

You know how you have "Laundry Day"? You don't know what ******* laundry day is. Try doing Laundry for 6. Every day is "Laundry day". Match up some tiny little socks. Piles and piles of laundry taller than you are. You have no freaking clue.

Try to find everyone's shoes in those last frantic seconds when you can hear the school bus coming down the street. Try to kep the kids from eating every one of the yogurt packages before dinner. What you gonna do? Padlock the refrigerator? We do.

Parents can spend their every waking moment "parenting". **** you could spend your ENTIRE day just cleaning the house. But who's watching the kids while you clean? I'll tell you who. Wonder Pets, Dora, addicting games.com, Castle Crashers.

Family Time? **** yes, pile in the van and get the **** out of the house. You know when you can't? When it's hailing, raining, snowing, too hot, too cold. That's a hella time stuck indoors. Go find an indoor activity for kids? That's free? Like what?

Everything you take your kids to indoors is $10+ per person. 6 people = $60 everytime you wanna have a family trip indoors. Do you know how expensive it is to feed a family of 6? A lot cheaper if you cook, right? Well, who is watching the kids while you cook? That's right, Backyardigans, Ice Age, Toy Story 3.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Being a good parent is the #1 most demanding job in the world. The last thing a good parent needs is someone that doesn't even have kids telling them how they could do it better.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 4:23pm by SmashingtonWho
#32 Apr 25 2011 at 10:12 AM Rating: Default
EDIT: Editing this so I don't appear to be such an a$$.

This is how parenting one kid goes:

At the playground: Where's my kid? Oh, right there. Done. Easy.
Feed the kid: I know, I'll just make a little more food. Done.
Find a babystter: Hey could you watch my (one) kid tonight? Yes? Awesome.
Finding shoes: These two match! Done.
Laundry: Hmm, looks like I'd better do laundry twice this week.

Back in the day I just had one kid. I could spend all day just hanging out. They get constant guidance and support. Easy to discipline. You tell them no, and they don't, because you are standing right there.

Parents of one kid are even worse than no kids because they think they have a right to tell other parents how much better they can do it.

My suggestion: Don't rely on the birth control patch or you may end up with triplets like we did. Then what? You think your perfect parenting plans will last one day with 4 kids? The answer is no.

I met some other triplet parents and we laugh at anyone who doesn't have 3+ kids and think they know all about good parenting. When you have 4 kids you do your best. Is it good enough? Not really. If think you are doing a good enough job then you probably aren't a good parent.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 4:03pm by SmashingtonWho
#33 Apr 25 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
Let's keep this discussion civil. We can debate this subject like adults without resorting to flinging personal insults at each other.
#34 Apr 25 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
You go ahead and rate me down all you want. I dare you, I double dog dare you, to post just one thing in my rant that I am wrong about?


Good for you to just press the red button, but you can't actually discuss this because you have no idea what it's like.
#35 Apr 25 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
*****
16,959 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
You go ahead and rate me down all you want. I dare you, I double dog dare you, to post just one thing in my rant that I am wrong about?


Good for you to just press the red button, but you can't actually discuss this because you have no idea what it's like.
Ok, I will.

I'm not exactly sure how this discussion turned into a rant about parenting toddlers. But it's meaningless in regards to the restrictions imposed on time spent playing MMOs.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 10:48am by Kirby
____________________________
MyAnimeList FFXIV Krystal Spoonless
#36 Apr 25 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
Sorry Kirby.

Totally uncalled for. I hope you will accept that I was just venting this morning.

I actually followed your link and looked around abit. It seems I don't really fit in the parenting forum crowd anymore than I fit in the gaming crowd. Where are all the gamer parents? I'd guess not spending their precious free time on FFXIV.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 4:09pm by SmashingtonWho
#37 Apr 25 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Excellent
*****
16,959 posts
I'm just saying, your rant belongs here: http://www.parentingforums.org/forum.php
____________________________
MyAnimeList FFXIV Krystal Spoonless
#38 Apr 25 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
142 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Lostkaws wrote:
I am a parent and I am on survielence or have someone that is 24/7! That is what being parent is. You are responsible for your children every moment of their lives until they turn 18. Their is no break from parenting. Parents need to step up and encourage healthy actions. I let my son play video games. He played FFXI with me for awhile, and now he has his own kid games, but I am very careful with the time he is allowed to play and encourage a bike ride with me after gaming. Parents are 100% responsible and expect them to be so every hour of every day. Of course children are going to slip one by every now and then, but that what consequences are for and consequences in of themselves are an excellent teaching opportunity.

Edited, Apr 23rd 2011 1:58pm by Lostkaws


You clearly have one kid.

Oh joy, how fricken easy it would be to have one kid.

This is how parenting one kid goes:
At the playground: Where's my kid? Oh, right there. Done. Easy.
Feed the kid: I know, I'll just meke a little more food. Done.
Find a babystter: Hey could you watch me kid tonight? Yes. Awesome.
Finding shoes: These two match! Done.
Laundry: Hmm, looks like I'd better do laundry twice this week.

I could spend all day just hanging out with my one kid. They get constant guidance and support. Easy to discipline.


Parents of one kid are even worse than no kids because they think they have a right to tell other parents how much better they can do it.

My suggestion: Don't rely on the birth control patch or you may end up with triplets like we did. Then what? You think your perfect parenting plans will last one day with 4 kids? The answer is no.

I met some other triplet parents and we laugh at you. We laugh at anyone who doesn't have 3+ kids and think they know all about good parenting.

When you have 4 kids you do your best. Is it good enough? Not really. If think you are doing a good enough job then you probably aren't a good parent.

I doubt there is a single parent of four kids on this entire forum. I post here because I enjoy it. From work. I get more time to post at work then I will ever get playing FFXIV. I get from 9:30pm to 12:00pm to myself, or rather, to spend with my wife. 2-1/2 hours and during that time I am NOT going to struggle with some BS, sub-par targeting system.

Meanwhile, it's always fun to have a good rant at some people that think they are just the best at life.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 12:39pm by SmashingtonWho


Pardon me sir? Where did I say I only have one kid? Think again pal! You sir are the self righteous one here. It was your decision to have your children yet you come in here and speak to us like this. No sir I do not only have one kid. On top of that one of my children has special needs. Try dealing with that for a little while. Pack your attitude in the minivan and keep out of here.


Edited, Apr 25th 2011 12:57pm by Lostkaws
____________________________
Seraph LVL 80 War,80 RNG, 63 DNC, 40 NIN, 40 sam, 40 thf , 18 MNK

SAN D' Oria Rank 10
#39 Apr 25 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
Fair enough.

At first I could not stand by and listen to all the "blame it on the parents" sentiment. Also the "But I can watch my kid all the time. Why can't they?"

I telling you that parenting is not easy. Let's not point to one kid who played too many vidoe games and then translate that into:

Quote:
I just shake my head and sigh quietly every time I heard my coworkers who have kids:

- "Get this DVD it really makes them quiet"
- "Buy them the new DS it will be like there are no kids in the house"


So you are saying you disapprove of parents who let their kids watch movies (to shut them up)? This is someone who has no clue what they are talking about. It's just nonsense.

Good parents let their kids watch movies and play video games. They also provide other activities, but those activities are not available all the time, everyday.

I made a number of good points in my posts and parents of multiple would be standing on their chairs chearing me on if they could read them. I have educated anyone who took the time to read me posts on exactly what parents think about non-parents and their parenting veiws.

You don't have to agree. But now you know what we are thinking about your nonsense.

If I post at that parenting forum, I am preaching to the choir. Posting here, I feel that I am teacing people something they clearly don't understand.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 3:30pm by SmashingtonWho
#40 Apr 25 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
The posts above mine reek with self righteous bull sh*t.


Gosh, I get more QQ from your posts than you probably get in a week from your toddlers.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#41 Apr 25 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
Lostkaws,
Ok. So you have 2 kids? One with special needs?

Can I ask what?

I know that my general tone has been ****** off to the max so I really should apologize for that. I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

I do, in fact, pack my kid with special needs in the mini-van everday. Our daughter was born at 1 lb. 6 oz. and has had a trach for her entire life. Oxygen tanks, breathing treatments, feeding tube, 22 hopitals stays and counting. Not to mention the first 9 months in the NICU when we had 2 other premature newborns at home.

So please take my apology to heart. I'm frustrated at a long weekend with very little sleep and these posts on parenting advice just gave me something to direct my frustration at.

I'm sure you do a fine job parenting. Please excuse me.




Edited, Apr 25th 2011 1:16pm by SmashingtonWho
#42 Apr 25 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Default
SmashingtonWho wrote:
If you don't have kids your veiws on parenting are invalid.


EDIT: I realize this post is inflammatory. Still, I can't help but feel that it is absolutely true.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 2:38pm by SmashingtonWho
#43 Apr 25 2011 at 11:26 AM Rating: Good
Sage
***
1,675 posts
On topic, limiting things toward youth isn't that uncommon. (At least here in California)

In certain areas teens have curfew. Teens can't drive with other kids in the car. They can't work until 16. They can't legally buy cigarettes or alcohol.

So in those respects it doesn't seem to far off to limit playtime in a game. Especially if the game is considered "addictive."

Of course actually limiting playtime would be difficult and of course you can argue the addictiveness (or lack of) of gaming.

I would err on the side that video games are more destructive than not. Yes, they can provide some positives, but they won't change the world.

One of the great ironies is that people think video games beget video games. When in fact it's people who are somewhat passionate about them, but have excelled in other interests like math and computer programing and design. I'll bet that the more successful people/designers spent more time on those things rather than playing games.

Again, and lastly it's one thing to curb adults but another to curb the playtimes of children and teens. And although my Western sensibilities caution against the limiting of rights, I think for children and youth, limiting playtime can be argued for comfortably.
#44 Apr 25 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
142 posts
Sure I can certainly understand your frustration. I do not believe anyone in this forum is saying it is not ok to have your kids watch movies or play video games. My children watch movies or play video game while I am doing the dishes or engaged in household activities.

I think the point of the thread is about limitations being enforced by a government entity. I feel this a parental responsibility when confined to what would be termed as "minors" quotations due to the ambiguity of term as it applies to international standards.

I have three children. The youngest is two and the oldest is 10. Both are healthy and happy and enjoy various media activities at my discretion. My other child is 7 and autistic. Dealing with it has been a constant challenge. He goes to a special school and is slowly gaining some of the skills he will need to make it on his own. My wife and I also work very hard to teach not only him, but are other two children what this will require. That starts with being responsible and placing limits. This includes gaming and television. In all actuality we do not own a T.V. so we use the computers instead. This also helps limiting the viewing time. I think ultimately what I am trying to say is that government restriction are not needed if parents are responsible. That does not mean total blackout, just appropriate limits that you decide and set. I would not tell you that you should set a limit of 1 hour a day. Your situation is different than mine and may require a different tact.

I am sure we are probably of the same mind we just had the misfortune of catching you on one of those days that both parents, couples, and single people have.



SmashingtonWho wrote:
Lostkaws,
Ok. So you have 2 kids? One with special needs?

Can I ask what?

I know that my general tone has been ****** off to the max so I really should apologize for that. I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

I do, in fact, pack my kid with special needs in the mini-van everday. Our daughter was born at 1 lb. 6 oz. and has had a trach for her entire life. Oxygen tanks, breathing treatments, feeding tube, 22 hopitals stays and counting. Not to mention the first 9 months in the NICU when we had 2 other premature newborns at home.

So please take my apology to heart. I'm frustrated at a long weekend with very little sleep and these posts on parenting advice just gave me something to direct my frustration at.

I'm sure you do a fine job parenting. Please excuse me.




Edited, Apr 25th 2011 1:16pm by SmashingtonWho



Edited, Apr 25th 2011 2:06pm by Lostkaws
____________________________
Seraph LVL 80 War,80 RNG, 63 DNC, 40 NIN, 40 sam, 40 thf , 18 MNK

SAN D' Oria Rank 10
#45 Apr 25 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
LillithaFenimore wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
It'd be pretty **** ridiculous if, at a certain time of night, my game cuts off, but I could put down the controller, walk/drive up the road and load up on cigarettes, booze, & perhaps even a gun(depending on where you live). Completely ridiculous...

Quote:
Honestly, I sm for it, however, it should be the same for all MMO's, not just a few, and it should go for all ages as well.

****! = D


Well, I have a personal reason for it. Many years ago, my husband and I let an MMO consume us, yes, I know it wasn't the MMO's fault, I said WE let it consume us. We didn't really know we had an addiction until it almost killed our marriage. So that is why I am for a limitation. He and I still play, but we only play a few times a week, no more than 3 days a week at the most for not more than 3 hours each session.
The question however is, should that be a government mandated limitation?

No, it absolutely should not.

What about people who work 2nd shift and don't get home until 11:30 PM? Should they only be allowed 30 minutes of gaming whereas someone who works 1st shift gets several hours? If that's not fair, how would you implement a system that caters to people with different work schedules? How would you "check in"? How would you verify that the person checking in is the person they say they are, and actually works at that specific time? How would you revert the rules on the days they do not work?

This is very quickly becoming a complex problem with WAY too many rules and regulations.



Edited, Apr 25th 2011 1:59pm by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#46 Apr 25 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Good
Lostkaws wrote:
I am sure we are probably of the same mind we just had the misfortune of catching you on one of those days that both parents, couples, and single people have.


Thank you. I'm quite embarassed to have just exploded this morning. On topic, yes, I'm sure we both understand that there is some reasonable balance for kids when it comes to electronic media.

I do think that the Government can play some part in ensuring the health of it's citizens. I have a friend that works for Family Services and I know he goes from one bad situation to the next, trying desperately to help kids and parents alike. Maybe a concerned relative calling in DFS could have helped in some of situations that have led to this legislature in Korea.

In this way, I think governments need to focus on educating parents, rather than directly limiting electronic media time for minors. Limiting game time can be done reasonable parents. Teaching reasonable parenting should probably be taught alongside ***-ed. But really, you can only learn parenting by doing it. And even then, good parents will agree that they do their best and it's never enough.


Edited, Apr 25th 2011 3:39pm by SmashingtonWho
#47 Apr 25 2011 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
*
178 posts
Transmigration wrote:
Honestly, I think the negative effects are overshadowed by the positives. I can't tell you how many people who like myself have used video games as a way to stay out of trouble. That nerd down the street from you that plays video games all day could have been a gangster, in this country at least.


I think the flip side of the argument could easily be made by someone who claims that the positive effects are overshadowed by the negatives. That nerd down the street from you who plays video games all day could easily have finished his college degree and be doing something meaningful in society right?

Also, I think a lot of people are generalizing the limitations to both children and adults. I would definitely be against any law that restricted gaming to anyone over the age of 18+. Adults should be able to make their own decisions in life whether those choices are destructive or not. And like many mentioned, there are much worse evils out there than gaming.

However,kids are young and malleable, so it does make sense to impose certain restrictions on them in the event that the first line of defense (read: the parents) fails. The reason why this is more relevent in Korea is because a lot of "parents" have grown up in an environment of gaming addiction and therefore it is likely that they will not deter their kids from making the same mistake. Having a law in place I think would ultimately reduce the destructive nature of gaming in general and in the long run may actually benefit eSports and MMO reputation, by eliminating the negative stigma that surrounds gamers (the fewer gaming related deaths we read about the better no?)

But like Kierk mentioned earlier.. the western upbringing in me makes any kinda restriction on freedom of choice difficult to swallow.




#48 Apr 25 2011 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
lightacadi wrote:
That nerd down the street from you who plays video games all day could easily have finished his college degree and be doing something meaningful in society right?


It really depends on what his degree would have been: I don't see how working for some random corporation/legal firm is any more "meaningful" than working for some random grocery store, really...
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#49 Apr 25 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
lightacadi wrote:
That nerd down the street from you who plays video games all day could easily have finished his college degree and be doing something meaningful in society right?


It really depends on what his degree would have been: I don't see how working for some random corporation/legal firm is any more "meaningful" than working for some random grocery store, really...


One is struggling to survive and the other isn't?
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#50 Apr 25 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
LillithaFenimore wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
lightacadi wrote:
That nerd down the street from you who plays video games all day could easily have finished his college degree and be doing something meaningful in society right?


It really depends on what his degree would have been: I don't see how working for some random corporation/legal firm is any more "meaningful" than working for some random grocery store, really...


One is struggling to survive and the other isn't?


Meaningful is a poor word because its subjective, just think productive instead. A starving artist can do something that will one day be meaningful, without being all that productive for himself or society in the short term.

I think people in general try and impose their own values on everyone else as the correct ones. I think that getting a good job, raising a family is the way to go, but some other dude who wants to work 20 hours a week to survive, and spend all his other time playing some game, thats what makes him happy and its up to him to do so. Remember there are plenty of places in the world who work 12-18 hours a day who I'm sure look at our 40 hour work weeks and think we're wasting tons of time on luxuries.

Back on topic, nobody should be telling any adult how to spend their own time, that's completely up to them. Sometimes I think the government may need to step in regarding limiting things for minors because while its up to the parents, sometimes it does end up out of their hands and become a large problem. In korea maybe gaming is just as big an issue, but in America I know that they basically do this with alcohol. I was raised in Canada by a British parent, so I think the need for drinking age like we do is both silly, yet completely necessary.
____________________________


#51 Apr 26 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
1,609 posts
tpgsoldier wrote:
Should we also limit how long people play a certain sport like basketball or football? Should we limit how much people walk or run? Before you tell me thats different because those are healthy activities I would like to note that more people have died doing all of those activites than people have died playing video games not to mention injuries. None of these things should be limited.


Okay, the thing is about sports and video games, you really can't compare, except for the fact that they are past times. Sports not only promote the same thing MMO support, which is grouping together for a common goal, but also have a physical component added into it which supports great physical and mental health. (Yes I say mental because people who work out know that you get an endorphin rush which can make you happy, which can also promote good self-esteem about yourself). Now stop me if I am wrong, but I don't think I get much physical activity if I am playing an MMO (unless they have them for Wii, which I have no clue if they do or not I don't play on the Wii).

Also, no offense to anyone for what I am about to say. What I am about to say is just something I observed over MANY years of going to college and hanging out with gamers. The gamers I hung out with in college (2002-2008), were not in the best physical shape. The majority of them would go to class, then go to the student center, grab a bag of whatever unhealthy food was in the snack machine or whatever unhealthy food was in the cafeteria, sit and eat, and play games...until their next class. This was an ALL day thing. I think some of these guys only got physical activity walking too and from class (many of them didn't have jobs because they were going to school full time via a scholarship or parents paying for their tuition and books). And it is clear that these people were over the age of 18 :|...just an observation...

bsphil wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
It'd be pretty **** ridiculous if, at a certain time of night, my game cuts off, but I could put down the controller, walk/drive up the road and load up on cigarettes, booze, & perhaps even a gun(depending on where you live). Completely ridiculous...

Quote:
Honestly, I sm for it, however, it should be the same for all MMO's, not just a few, and it should go for all ages as well.

****! = D


Well, I have a personal reason for it. Many years ago, my husband and I let an MMO consume us, yes, I know it wasn't the MMO's fault, I said WE let it consume us. We didn't really know we had an addiction until it almost killed our marriage. So that is why I am for a limitation. He and I still play, but we only play a few times a week, no more than 3 days a week at the most for not more than 3 hours each session.
The question however is, should that be a government mandated limitation?

No, it absolutely should not.

What about people who work 2nd shift and don't get home until 11:30 PM? Should they only be allowed 30 minutes of gaming whereas someone who works 1st shift gets several hours? If that's not fair, how would you implement a system that caters to people with different work schedules? How would you "check in"? How would you verify that the person checking in is the person they say they are, and actually works at that specific time? How would you revert the rules on the days they do not work?

This is very quickly becoming a complex problem with WAY too many rules and regulations.

Please don't preach to me about working. I used to work a full time job, a part time job and go to school. I know what it is like to have little or no gaming time. And who said that if such a theoretical thing were every implemented in the United States (would never EVER happen) that people could only play from set time to set time? If SE has the technology to slow progression of EXP/HR, then I think that the government, if they really wanted to, would have the technology to implement something very similar.

And how could gaming time be monitored? Well I do not know much about computer science and IT, however, I do know my husband's business has something implemented into their servers that key stroke logs EVERYTHING their employees do or say on the companies computers and laptops. So if a small investment firm can do that, I am sure again, the goverment has (or maybe already has due to war on terror) key logging and such going on to monitor where everyone has been for how long and can limit where people go.

These are just my observations.


Edited, Apr 25th 2011 1:59pm by bsphil


KujaKoF wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
lightacadi wrote:
That nerd down the street from you who plays video games all day could easily have finished his college degree and be doing something meaningful in society right?


It really depends on what his degree would have been: I don't see how working for some random corporation/legal firm is any more "meaningful" than working for some random grocery store, really...


One is struggling to survive and the other isn't?


Meaningful is a poor word because its subjective, just think productive instead. A starving artist can do something that will one day be meaningful, without being all that productive for himself or society in the short term.

I think people in general try and impose their own values on everyone else as the correct ones. I think that getting a good job, raising a family is the way to go, but some other dude who wants to work 20 hours a week to survive, and spend all his other time playing some game, thats what makes him happy and its up to him to do so. Remember there are plenty of places in the world who work 12-18 hours a day who I'm sure look at our 40 hour work weeks and think we're wasting tons of time on luxuries.

You are right, and I agree, people can do whatever they want to make themselves happy, I have no quams with that as long as no one else is being hurt in the process. I just said the above statement as being silly, I should have been more specific that I was joking with that statement.

Back on topic, nobody should be telling any adult how to spend their own time, that's completely up to them. Sometimes I think the government may need to step in regarding limiting things for minors because while its up to the parents, sometimes it does end up out of their hands and become a large problem. In korea maybe gaming is just as big an issue, but in America I know that they basically do this with alcohol. I was raised in Canada by a British parent, so I think the need for drinking age like we do is both silly, yet completely necessary.


I could not agree more with this, really.
____________________________


"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
« Previous 1 2
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 20 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (20)