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#52 Apr 26 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Please don't preach to me about working. I used to work a full time job, a part time job and go to school


Join the ******' club.
You know better... don't do that again.

You haven't addressed the main point: Why should the government be responsible for overseeing your Internet gaming usage? If you know you have a problem, set up restrictions for yourself on your own computer. Or have a spouse or someone else do it. Keep a log of your usage times posted in a notebook so that people can call you out on overusing it. If you really want the government locking down your Internet usage, move to China. Don't whine to me about how your lack of self-control means that everyone else in the country should be restricted as well.



Edited, Apr 26th 2011 12:34pm by bsphil

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 9:09am by Osarion
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#53 Apr 26 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Please don't preach to me about working. I used to work a full time job, a part time job and go to school
Join the ******' club.

You haven't addressed the main point: Why should the government be responsible for overseeing your Internet gaming usage? If you know you have a problem, set up restrictions for yourself on your own computer. Or have a spouse or someone else do it. Keep a log of your usage times posted in a notebook so that people can call you out on overusing it. If you really want the government locking down your Internet usage, move to China. Don't whine to me about how your lack of self-control means that everyone else in the country should be restricted as well.



Edited, Apr 26th 2011 12:34pm by bsphil


Please do not use fowl language. It is rude and distasteful. I didn't use any with you, so I would expect the same respect.

You obviously didn't read my personal reason post...

Let me say it again...

"We didn't really know we had an addiction until it almost killed our marriage."

People who have addictions typically don't know they have them until something bad happens or they chose to be in denial.

That is my personal reason as to why I think there should be some restriction. A PERSONAL REASON. So yourpoint was addressed, you just chose to ignore it.

And I will post about my personal view as much as you will. Someone started the post to get a perspective from the users here on ZAM. Just because we disagree doesn't mean you need to be hostile with me. And just because I think a certian ways doesn't mean I am completely "pro-goverenment Go China".



Edited, Apr 27th 2011 9:09am by Osarion
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#54 Apr 26 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm afraid to post in this thread based on some of the hostility going around, but...

Quote:
I've said this for a very long time, but it really is sad and a little disgusting how personal responsibility/accountability is slowly ebbing away in the world.


I agree with this guy. I'm not inviting Big Brother into my house, but some people just can't effectively moderate their own play times so someone has to do it for them. This is why not everyone can have nice things, like unlimited internets and MMO's.

It's ok though; when the middle-class disappears, I'm confident that I will be able to desperately cling to that bottom-rung of the bourgeoisie while my neighbors and peers fall into the proletariat. Hopefully they have unlimited internet there. :-P


Edited, Apr 26th 2011 2:30pm by thejones
#55 Apr 26 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:


Please do not use fowl language. It is rude and distasteful. I didn't use any with you, so I would expect the same respect.

You obviously didn't read my personal reason post...

Let me say it again...

"We didn't really know we had an addiction until it almost killed our marriage."

People who have addictions typically don't know they have them until something bad happens or they chose to be in denial.

That is my personal reason as to why I think there should be some restriction. A PERSONAL REASON. So yourpoint was addressed, you just chose to ignore it.

And I will post about my personal view as much as you will. Someone started the post to get a perspective from the users here on ZAM. Just because we disagree doesn't mean you need to be hostile with me. And just because I think a certian ways doesn't mean I am completely "pro-goverenment Go China".



I respect your opinion on this matter Lillitha, but I don't think you should take this debate too close to heart since the opinions here will obviously be bias. Aside from the few ranting posts tho, most of what people have said have been really good points.

Ironically this same topic was discussed in a professional forum (where i pulled the article) that deals with gaming addiction, and the overwhelming majority of people who responded there touted this new law in Korea as the first step in the right direction, while people who supported gaming as a lifestyle are pretty much denounced for their opinions and are labeled "delusional or in denial".

It just kinda shows the large chasm that gaps people who appreciate gaming, and those who do not understand it. Personally, I feel that if gamers ever want to be accepted in mainstream society a middle ground needs to be established. Gamers need to realize even though they themselves may be living perfectly normal and productive lives, there are a lot of people out there who are victim to the addicting and destructive nature of MMOs and other similar games. Vice versa, non-gamers need to recognize that not all gamers are high school drop outs who spend 18 hours a day glued to their computers living in their mother's basement and that gaming can be a valid life choice under the right circumstances.

In regards to the Korean government law, I feel that if anything it will help the future of gamers, with the caveat that it infringes on personal freedom. If you think about it the Korean government has no intention of banning video games from their culture. Afterall, the esport industry is a very lucrative business in that country. This is an example of a third party trying to establish that previously mentioned middle ground where gamers can hopefully flourish in a less destructive environment. The problem with this compromise is the problem with any compromise: neither side of the spectrum will be willing to give up ground. Gamers will defend the choice for gaming for life and non-gamers will continue to blow things out of proportion when that next tragic gaming related incident occurs.
#56 Apr 26 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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lightacadi wrote:
there are a lot of people out there who are victim to the addicting and destructive nature of MMOs


You talk almost as if you had a reputable source for such statements.
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#57 Apr 26 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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lightacadi wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:


Please do not use fowl language. It is rude and distasteful. I didn't use any with you, so I would expect the same respect.

You obviously didn't read my personal reason post...

Let me say it again...

"We didn't really know we had an addiction until it almost killed our marriage."

People who have addictions typically don't know they have them until something bad happens or they chose to be in denial.

That is my personal reason as to why I think there should be some restriction. A PERSONAL REASON. So yourpoint was addressed, you just chose to ignore it.

And I will post about my personal view as much as you will. Someone started the post to get a perspective from the users here on ZAM. Just because we disagree doesn't mean you need to be hostile with me. And just because I think a certian ways doesn't mean I am completely "pro-goverenment Go China".



I respect your opinion on this matter Lillitha, but I don't think you should take this debate too close to heart since the opinions here will obviously be bias. Aside from the few ranting posts tho, most of what people have said have been really good points.

Nah, I don't take anything in here to heart, I know it's completely biased. However, I do get offended when someone wants to use fowl language toward me :P


Ironically this same topic was discussed in a professional forum (where i pulled the article) that deals with gaming addiction, and the overwhelming majority of people who responded there touted this new law in Korea as the first step in the right direction, while people who supported gaming as a lifestyle are pretty much denounced for their opinions and are labeled "delusional or in denial".

It just kinda shows the large chasm that gaps people who appreciate gaming, and those who do not understand it. Personally, I feel that if gamers ever want to be accepted in mainstream society a middle ground needs to be established. Gamers need to realize even though they themselves may be living perfectly normal and productive lives, there are a lot of people out there who are victim to the addicting and destructive nature of MMOs and other similar games. Vice versa, non-gamers need to recognize that not all gamers are high school drop outs who spend 18 hours a day glued to their computers living in their mother's basement and that gaming can be a valid life choice under the right circumstances.

In regards to the Korean government law, I feel that if anything it will help the future of gamers, with the caveat that it infringes on personal freedom. If you think about it the Korean government has no intention of banning video games from their culture. Afterall, the esport industry is a very lucrative business in that country. This is an example of a third party trying to establish that previously mentioned middle ground where gamers can hopefully flourish in a less destructive environment. The problem with this compromise is the problem with any compromise: neither side of the spectrum will be willing to give up ground. Gamers will defend the choice for gaming for life and non-gamers will continue to blow things out of proportion when that next tragic gaming related incident occurs.


Well the thing IMO is the MMO companies, not all many of them though, make these fantastic games, XI being an example because it's the only one I ever played besides FXIV, and they make it so that each player is reliant upon a group to get almost anything done. So when this occurs, it eats up so much time. And I think that is where the addiction probably steps in. Then on top of there are probably people in the world who are predisposed to addicting behaviors by no fault of their own, it's just the genetic card they were delt. So when these two things combine, then some may have problems.

You are right, gamers don't just live in their parents basement living in a pixelated world the entire time, and non-gamers do need to be open to the fact that us gamers do live perfectly "normal" (whatever that could mean) lives are functioning members of soceity. A few bad apples tend to spoil the bunch. It's unfornate, however, possibly necesary, and in the case of Korea, maybe helpful? IDK I don't live there.

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#58 Apr 26 2011 at 4:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
Please do not use fowl language.
Duck you.
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#59 Apr 26 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
If you don't have kids your veiws on parenting are invalid.


EDIT: I realize this post is inflammatory. Still, I can't help but feel that it is absolutely true.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 2:38pm by SmashingtonWho
I respectfully disagree.

Parenting neither overwrite or annul common sense, I don't need to be a parent to know that my cousin who got the new mortal combat for his 11 years old is doing something wrong, neither a point about parenting and gaming restrictions that I could come up based on the fact that buying it is inadequate could be called invalid.

I respect parenting as one of the toughest, most demanding responsibilities a human being may have, yet I still can look at a given situation and make a valid point or two about it.

Ken
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#60 Apr 26 2011 at 9:52 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
LillithaFenimore wrote:
Please do not use fowl language.
Duck you.



Lol!!!!
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#61 Apr 26 2011 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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kenage wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
If you don't have kids your veiws on parenting are invalid.


EDIT: I realize this post is inflammatory. Still, I can't help but feel that it is absolutely true.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 2:38pm by SmashingtonWho
I respectfully disagree.

Parenting neither overwrite or annul common sense, I don't need to be a parent to know that my cousin who got the new mortal combat for his 11 years old is doing something wrong, neither a point about parenting and gaming restrictions that I could come up based on the fact that buying it is inadequate could be called invalid.

I respect parenting as one of the toughest, most demanding responsibilities a human being may have, yet I still can look at a given situation and make a valid point or two about it.

Ken


Of course you can't, that's the whole point! It makes perfect sense: just like only heavy smokers should be allowed to comment about others' smoking habits, or how only NRA members can express valid opinions on gun laws!
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#62 Apr 27 2011 at 12:13 AM Rating: Good
kenage wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
If you don't have kids your veiws on parenting are invalid.


EDIT: I realize this post is inflammatory. Still, I can't help but feel that it is absolutely true.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 2:38pm by SmashingtonWho
I respectfully disagree.

Parenting neither overwrite or annul common sense, I don't need to be a parent to know that my cousin who got the new mortal combat for his 11 years old is doing something wrong, neither a point about parenting and gaming restrictions that I could come up based on the fact that buying it is inadequate could be called invalid.

I respect parenting as one of the toughest, most demanding responsibilities a human being may have, yet I still can look at a given situation and make a valid point or two about it.

Ken


Your judgement upon your cousin is based on your own values. You don't live with his son and have no idea what his maturity level is. I have an 11 year old son myself and I would easily let him play Mortal Kombat. ****, I would buy it for him if that's what he wanted for his perfect report card. My son gets straight A's. We focus on homework and the deal is, after your responsibilities are done, it's free time. My son played Assassin's Creed at 10. It was, in fact, a reward for a perfect report card. Am I a bad parent? Perhaps, but not for this reason.

Are you sure that you should judge your cousin's parenting based upon your own belief system? This, perhaps, is the core of our disagreement.

Your post itself proves that you are willing to judge other people's parenting when you don't live with them or know who they are. If you lived with your cousin and his son everyday perhaps you would find his decision makes more sense. You simply don't know. (And don't give yourself too much credit, living with kids is far different than seeing them often.)

I am suggesting that you save your judgement for deciding how you will raise your own kids.

This is not an example of a valid parenting view. Because you are imposing your view of good parenting upon actual parenting in action, you are finding it lacking. I propose that if you had an 11 year old of your own, this decision would not be so black and white.
#63 Apr 27 2011 at 2:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Your response seems good, until we account to the fact that you are suggesting is OK to expose a 11 years old to ultra-violence.

But well perhaps I should have been more specific, in this particular case my cousin has no idea what the game was about, and he just told me because he knows it's my hobby, hence he isn't just buying a questionable game for his kid, he also doesn't know that it is a questionable game, let me make make another point: "being uninformed about the material your are directly exposing your kids to, is also bad parenting" would be interesting to know how you can rule that out as invalid.

I won't get in the terrain to discuss if a 10-11 years old kid's character is developed enough to assimilate the concepts of R+ rated game as fantasy or if your son scoring "perfect A" report cards has anything to do with his ability to do the former, these are really bold statements.

The fact remains, we kid-less adults can make valid points about parenting.

Ken

Edit: yet I'm rating you up, because I appreciate the time you are taking to answer my posts.

Edited, Apr 27th 2011 8:03am by kenage
____________________________
"Maybe it means: you're the evil man, and I'm the righteous man, and Mr. Nine-millimeter here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous *** in the Valley of Darkness." - Jules.
FFXIV: Mabel Rand (Gugnir)
FFXI: Kenage, retired.
K&K forever!,
#64 Apr 27 2011 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
15 posts
If the shoe doesn't fit, should we change the foot?.

Likewise,in this world called "reality" the answers one seek can be a dose too much to handle.
I'm mean all of us in this forum now, are probably gamers to a certain degree.
In a sense, most individuals who would spend their time staring at a squarish-looking (insert your word) for certain periods of time
are probably either :
1)Bored. = Calling Duty Blackie Ops /Rage Quitting due to Rambo Sniper
2)Bored.. = Socialising amongst various communities/forums
3)Bored... = Stucked in realm of facebook playing farmsville
4)Bored.... = (insert your sentence)

What is maturity? Is Maturity proportionate to Age? What is self-control? Should an individual be responsible for his/her actions?
What is responsibility?


Yet, to be able to articulate sentences of a certain language like the language most of us are using to type in this forum, should atleast managed to receive formal education, and should understand the word "consequences". Or, the iconic idiom called
"You reap, what you sow" or "What goes around,comes around" .

So as you are about buy a game, play a game , spend a gazillion hours in a game. you should be prepared for the consequences of not utilizing that period of time wisely. (Yet again, how do you spend time wisely?)

It's like the ********* Nuclear Power Plant disaster, Gamma radiation levels in the area were over 1000x more then the safety levels
300 individuals volunteered to salvage/re-wire the emergency power supply to cool the reactors. Those men that volunteered realised the consequences of their actions, that even if they managed to suceed in their plans of restoring power, they probably die due to exccessive exposure to radiation.


My point is simple, No matter how are young,immature, mature , old & (insert your sentence). As you switched on the PC, PS3 XBOX360 Wii, to play.. you have a responsiblity to ensure that the choices you make out-weigh the consequences.

A Game is not just a game, i'm sure all gamers know what i mean.. it's so much more then just a box with a dvd in it.. you make friends enemies rivals..and what so ever.Yet at the same time, it's also a double-edge sword..

#65 Apr 27 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Good
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SmashingtonWho wrote:

I don't care how old your are, if you have no kids you are a still a child.


I started reading this thread because this topic is something I find rather though provoking. Good points made my many. Then I saw this.

The irony of this statement can't be lost on you can it? Your public tantrum seems to frame you as the most childish person here. I know you said you you were in a bad mood or some such, but really none of the adults I know vent their rage to strangers in such a caustic manner.

Heres a life tip from one adult to another. Losing control in public will discredit you. Ever wonder why Presidents never loose there cool when addressing people during times of crisis? You may have had good points but you unfocused display of rage has overshadowed those.
#66 Apr 27 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Default
25 posts
Niether the gov't or the game developers should have any say in how much a person plays a game. That's like saying alcohol companies are only going to give a certain amount of alcohol to you because you drink it to much. Rather then imposing a restriction on how much one person has access to whatever...why not educate them. Once I found out that there actually is a gaming addiction and I saw how much it can affect lives...I thought twice about my own lifestyle (compared to 'gaming addiction' I was nothing close to gaming 'ruining my life'. If a person (specifically a child or younger ones) wants to play a game all day then let them...ONLY if they have other obligations finished (basic hygiene, chores around the house, homework, is able to stop playing to join you for dinner and other activities, etc)
If they have their other life obligations under control who cares how much this person spends playing a game. Playing a game is better then going out and getting high on drugs and alcohol which leads to many other problems.

The parent is the one that has to control their child and is the one that raises them. If gov't and game developers are now intervening on controlling how or what you kids does then I think this whole system is heading in a backward direction. If the parent feels their kid is not participating in family activities and is refusing to get off of the comp (followed by tantrums and spazs and panic attacks) then the best thing to do is get rid of the computer all together, because that is when it becomes a problem. You need to do research...goto a library. Until YOUR kid can show a level of discipline and partake in family events and such, then YES restriction is needed from the parent not governments and game developers. Home gaming should be monitored by parents or guardians. It IS the parents fault for letting their kid become addicted in the first place.
Educate the parents, educate the kids.
DO NOT restrict gaming.
#67 Apr 27 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
Thegorgatron wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:

I don't care how old your are, if you have no kids you are a still a child.


I started reading this thread because this topic is something I find rather though provoking. Good points made my many. Then I saw this.

The irony of this statement can't be lost on you can it? Your public tantrum seems to frame you as the most childish person here. I know you said you you were in a bad mood or some such, but really none of the adults I know vent their rage to strangers in such a caustic manner.

Heres a life tip from one adult to another. Losing control in public will discredit you. Ever wonder why Presidents never loose there cool when addressing people during times of crisis? You may have had good points but you unfocused display of rage has overshadowed those.


This is interesting. I have editied that particular sentence but I did not change it's content. For one thing, we are all very much children. Maturity is a subjective term used by people to determine how well others conform to their ideals. What I mean by "child", in this case, is that you are responsible for yourself and no one else.

On the other hand, becoming responsible for a child changes you. On a very deep level you are never the person you were before. You have a purpose, a responsibility, to protect and nurture another living being.

You can conceptualize this all you want. It's not what you think it is.

Listening to kids who think they know what they are talking about debate good parenting, point the finger of blame at people and situations they have very little information about, and pretend as if they would be the world's first perfect parent is infuriating. They see a headline and think they know the whole situation. I call BS.

I state this case constantly and find that parents understand where I'm coming from. Some of the people with no children are somewhat offended that I would casual dismiss their opinions. Consider this, your opinion on parenting does not amount to a hill of beans, and here's why.

Have you ever told a parent personally what you thought they were doing wrong? No. Would they listen? **** no. Are you ever going to, in any way, affect the parenting of kids other than your own? My magic 8-ball says Very Unlikely.

So please, save your thoughts for the time you are actually a parent. You will find that your views have changed at that time, I assure you.

In fact, you may just find that, at least in terms of responsibility, after you have kids of your own you consider anyone without kids to still be a child.


Edited, Apr 27th 2011 11:41am by SmashingtonWho
#68 Apr 27 2011 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
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Imagine if online gaming was illegal. Scarface would have been one heck of a different movie!

Instead of Tony Montana, you'd have Mark Zuckerberg making a fortune from the selling and distributing of online gaming time until getting 'high' from his own supply and thus suffering the inevitable downfall thanks to his level 80 Warlock!

I also guess "say hello to my little friend" would take on a whole new meaning too!
#69 Apr 27 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
Thegorgatron wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:

I don't care how old your are, if you have no kids you are a still a child.


I started reading this thread because this topic is something I find rather though provoking. Good points made my many. Then I saw this.

The irony of this statement can't be lost on you can it? Your public tantrum seems to frame you as the most childish person here. I know you said you you were in a bad mood or some such, but really none of the adults I know vent their rage to strangers in such a caustic manner.

Heres a life tip from one adult to another. Losing control in public will discredit you. Ever wonder why Presidents never loose there cool when addressing people during times of crisis? You may have had good points but you unfocused display of rage has overshadowed those.


This is interesting. I have editied that particular sentence but I did not change it's content. For one thing, we are all very much children. Maturity is a subjective term used by people to determine how well others conform to their ideals. What I mean by "child", in this case, is that you are responsible for yourself and no one else.

On the other hand, becoming responsible for a child changes you. On a very deep level you are never the person you were before. You have a purpose, a responsibility, to protect and nurture another living being.

You can conceptualize this all you want. It's not what you think it is.

Listening to kids who think they know what they are talking about debate good parenting, point the finger of blame at people and situations they have very little information about, and pretend as if they would be the world's first perfect parent is infuriating. They see a headline and think they know the whole situation. I call BS.

I state this case constantly and find that parents understand where I'm coming from. Some of the people with no children are somewhat offended that I would casual dismiss their opinions. Consider this, your opinion on parenting does not amount to a hill of beans, and here's why.

Have you ever told a parent personally what you thought they were doing wrong? No. Would they listen? **** no. Are you ever going to, in any way, affect the parenting of kids other than your own? My magic 8-ball says Very Unlikely.

So please, save your thoughts for the time you are actually a parent. You will find that your views have changed at that time, I assure you.

In fact, you may just find that, at least in terms of responsibility, after you have kids of your own you consider anyone without kids to still be a child.


Edited, Apr 27th 2011 11:41am by SmashingtonWho


SmashingtonWho,

I would have to agree with a lot of your posts *feels a good rate down about to occur*. I am not trying to be offensive toward people who don't have kids (LOL I used to be a preschool teacher BEFORE I had kids). Because I was a teacher, I thought I knew what parents were going through...I could do their job better...etc...boy was I ever wrong. So wrong to the point now, that I feel some completely embarrassed of my thoughts back then of some parents methods of parenting. Until one walks through the shoes of a parents, opinions about them should be kepts at bay. Each situation is extremely different (unless abuse is involved of course).

Just like we are people are all individuals and have different tastes, temperments, etc...kids are the EXACT same way, just on a much tinier scale. Kids know what they like and want from the moment they are born, and they will from the moment they are born, do what it takes to make that known. Example: Day 3 of having my premie daughter home and dealing with a c-section and a husband who couldn't help due to back injury. My husband and I were both so sleep deprived because when you have a child, especially premie, you are up every 3 hours. No sleep for us because we had to feed her, matter of life and death for her. So my husband and I were so against paci's. "How dare parents use a paci to shut up their cute little babies!"...Little did we know, we would be trying to use said paci so we could get some sleep in that three hour time period we had before the next feeding...however my daughter at 3 days old, had a different opinion. We gave her the paci...she spit it out. We gave it to her again...she spit it out...we then gave it to her and held it gently with our fingers thinking maybe she didn't know how to suckle a paci...didn't take but five second for her to start crying and flailing to let us know she DID NOT WANT a paci...So, from the time she was 3 days old, we never used a paci again.

Also, becoming a parent does change you. In a way, we are very child like until we become responsible for a human being. Your entire throught process changes instantly. Your feelings of what wrong is right changes instantly. And methods you thought you were on board with, change instantly. Kind of look at becoming a parent as like the life cycle of a caterpillar (that's the best way I can really describe it). You go from a crawling little worm like thing to a creature that can fly, becoming a parent overnight is as drastic as that.

Sorry for being so far off topic, but I thought I would just follow up Who's post. Okay, let the rating downing begin *gets her bunker helmet on* LOL
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#70 Apr 28 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
Thanks Lil.

Louis CK discusses how people without kids think they will be the world's best parents:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u2ZsoYWwJA

Shut up and eat your french fries!







Edited, Apr 28th 2011 8:35pm by SmashingtonWho
#71 Apr 28 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
Louis CK discusses how people without kids think they will be the world's best parents:
George Carlin discusses how people with kids aren't the best parents. NSFW

Conclusion: Neither having kids or not having kids makes people good at parenting, therefore all opinion on the topic is either valid or invalid.
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#73 Apr 28 2011 at 7:20 PM Rating: Good
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1,606 posts
Slippery slope. Seems like it could be easy to go from this to other things being restricted to "help" people.

The parenting thing I don't really know. I'd need to know a lot more details before I could pass judgment either way. With DVD example, is it just being put on and person just leaves the room and doesn't check in on them again until it's like over? Do they still check in/keep an eye/ear out? Stuff like that can make a big difference in my opinion. Not that it matters.

There was at least one time in my life where I really wish I had stepped in and told the parent to watch their freaking child but I didn't feel it was my place and it ended up with kid knocking a waitress down and the pot of coffee spilled all over the waitress and the child burning the crap out of them both. Wish I had smacked his (I am assuming) Dad upside the head and told him it's not safe to let kids run around hot stuff but it wasn't my place. Told myself "Kids will be kids" and all that BS. That I probably did the same stuff when I was young but I felt it was wrong.
#74 Apr 29 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
Your solution is to smack a stranger in the head?
#75 Apr 29 2011 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
I have been rated down for questioning if violence is a good solution.

Of course this forum is populated mostly by kids. And we all know kids hate to be told they are wrong.

I'm questioning why I care so much. What is to be gained by continuing to try and explain to some strangers that they don't know half of what they think they do?

The person above me summed it up best. He is so sure that he will be a better parent than the person who could not keep his child seated in a restaurant that his solution is to physically assualt a stranger. That assanine comment was actually rated up.

Out of 1000+ views, I would hope that at least 1 or 2 reasonable people have taken into account that sometimes their opinion of other peoples' actions is resented whole heartedly by the people who actually have to live in a given situation everyday. This applies to more than just parenting.
#76 Apr 29 2011 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
Quick! I posted again. Rate it down please.
#77 Apr 29 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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48,703 posts
Since you asked so nicely.
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George Carlin wrote:
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#78 Apr 29 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
Thanks lolgaxe +1. Awesome as usual.
#79 Apr 29 2011 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
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2,815 posts
Regarding the poll on page 1, there's an option missing that is never in this kind of debate but really always should have a place. And that option is :

-Allow people to make their own decisions, but invest in assistance programs and education campaigns. AND address the social issues that lead people to escapist addictions. If their real life was so great they wouldn't be hiding from it.

You never solve a problem by taking away a person's right to live their life how they choose. You only create a new criminal class that way. If you restrict game time, it'll be cracked, hacked and underground within a month, leading to arrests, raids, and crackdowns. Last thing western countries need is a new 'drug' to add to the pathetic 'war on drugs' that applies to everything above.

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 1:34pm by RattyBatty
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#80 Apr 29 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Decent
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9,526 posts
On the whole parenting side issue, I think it is a little silly to tell people they are children unless they have kids. On the whole, I think making the decision to NOT have children is a very adult decision. And perhaps folks didn't know what they were getting into when they had children but honestly, why are you complaining? You made your choice.

You chose to have children that wake you up at 5am - you chose a life of laundry, etc. It doesn't make you more or less adult to live that life. Less fun/more work doesn't automagically equal more adult.

There are a lot of ways of being an adult, and I think the most telling sign of an adult is being at peace with your life and meeting your responsibilities and obligations, whatever they are. Having less responsibilities doesn't make you less of an adult - just like having more responsibilities doesn't make one more of an adult.

I have no car (so no car payments), no credit card (so no credit card payments), and my gas bill is including in my rent (so no gas bill). Does that make me less of an adult than someone who has chosen to buy a car and max out one or two credit cards who lives in a house with no utilities included?

I don't think so. If I am paying my bills and the person who overreached themselves isn't then I am more of an adult than they are. If the person with a car payment and maxed out credit cards is making their payments - I would say we are on equal footing.

Choosing to have children doesn't make you wiser or more adult than people who chose to be child free. Nor does it give you some special knowledge that it is impossible for others to have.

I acknowledge that being a parent is a lot of responsibility - but I don't agree that choosing not to be a parent makes one irresponsible.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#81 Apr 29 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Default
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
On the whole parenting side issue, I think it is a little silly to tell people they are children unless they have kids.


Of course you would think that. You don't have any kids. You didn't read my entire post so why respond?

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
There are a lot of ways of being an adult, and I think the most telling sign of an adult is being at peace with your life and meeting your responsibilities and obligations, whatever they are.


Of course you would think that. You don't have any kids.

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Choosing to have children doesn't make you wiser or more adult than people who chose to be child free.


This is absolutely not true. You couldn't be more wrong.

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Nor does it give you some special knowledge that it is impossible for others to have.


It aboslutely does. You wouldn't understand.

Olorinus the Vile wrote:
I acknowledge that being a parent is a lot of responsibility - but I don't agree that choosing not to be a parent makes one irresponsible.


I did not say irresponsible. But it is a fact that parents have more responsibilities than you.
#82 Apr 29 2011 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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9,526 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:

I did not say irresponsible. But it is a fact that parents have more responsibilities than you.


Yeah, and so does the guy who is going bankrupt because he maxed out his credit cards. That doesn't make him more of an adult than I am.

If you want to believe that the 17 year old who get's themselves knocked up at a party is automatically more of an adult than the woman who takes precautions and makes a conscious decision not to have children - well that's you're prerogative - but you're wrong.

Being an adult is about the decisions you make and how you deal with the responsibilities you have. Choosing to have a child may very well be a more childish decision than choosing not to have one, depending on your circumstances.

Loading responsibilities onto yourself doesn't make you an adult - if that were true everyone who overspends and has too much debt is an adult and everyone who budgets carefully and makes sure they can pay their bills is a child. That doesn't make any sense.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#83 Apr 29 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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48,703 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Olorinus the Vile wrote:
Nor does it give you some special knowledge that it is impossible for others to have.
It aboslutely does. You wouldn't understand.
My one year old daughter and I just finished watching My Little Ponies and started talking about this topic, and we both decided that some teenager who got startled by the telephone and didn't pull out in time doesn't give them any more knowledge on the topic of child rearing than someone that waits until they're financially and emotionally ready.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#84 Apr 29 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
I have more responsibilites than you and I am more of an adult than you and I'm smarter too.

Neener neener neener.
#85 Apr 29 2011 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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1,606 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Your solution is to smack a stranger in the head?

The idea was smack some sense into him. More than likely it would be a metaphorical smack and would be nothing more than explaining it's not a good idea to have children running around very hot things and sharp objects. Probably wouldn't have worked anyhow but I would've known I tried to prevent that accident.
#86 Apr 29 2011 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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2,120 posts
MrTalos wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Your solution is to smack a stranger in the head?

The idea was smack some sense into him. More than likely it would be a metaphorical smack and would be nothing more than explaining it's not a good idea to have children running around very hot things and sharp objects. Probably wouldn't have worked anyhow but I would've known I tried to prevent that accident.


A Leroy Jethro Gibbs head smack?

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 9:25pm by TwistedOwl
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#87 May 01 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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1,606 posts
TwistedOwl wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Your solution is to smack a stranger in the head?

The idea was smack some sense into him. More than likely it would be a metaphorical smack and would be nothing more than explaining it's not a good idea to have children running around very hot things and sharp objects. Probably wouldn't have worked anyhow but I would've known I tried to prevent that accident.


A Leroy Jethro Gibbs head smack?

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 9:25pm by TwistedOwl

Honestly? Yes. NCIS is on soooo much on USA now a days that was what came to mind. It's like during the day it's either NCIS, CSI or one of the Law & Order spin-offs.
#88 May 01 2011 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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2,120 posts
MrTalos wrote:
TwistedOwl wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Your solution is to smack a stranger in the head?

The idea was smack some sense into him. More than likely it would be a metaphorical smack and would be nothing more than explaining it's not a good idea to have children running around very hot things and sharp objects. Probably wouldn't have worked anyhow but I would've known I tried to prevent that accident.


A Leroy Jethro Gibbs head smack?

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 9:25pm by TwistedOwl

Honestly? Yes. NCIS is on soooo much on USA now a days that was what came to mind. It's like during the day it's either NCIS, CSI or one of the Law & Order spin-offs.


Indeed. I like most of their shows. And then there's the abomination called their Monday night lineup = ( They'd be a much better channel if they knocked off the WWE nonsense = D
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#89 May 03 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
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116 posts
Joseph Fritzl & Michael Jackson had kids. I'd like to see their respective books on parenting.

Fathers for Justice or what!
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