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#1 Apr 23 2011 at 10:08 AM Rating: Good
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for the love of god can they make buffs last longer!! I mean it doesn't have to be about hour like other games (it would be nice though) but is 15 mins too long...
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#2 Apr 23 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Default
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/facepalm
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#3 Apr 23 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Did I miss something? I haven't been keeping up with this game that much has this been discussed before?
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#4 Apr 23 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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Compared to FFXI's 30 minute buffs, I agree 5 minutes is way too short.
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#5 Apr 23 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Compared to FFXI's 30 minute buffs, I agree 5 minutes is way too short.


Longer than most of the offline title buffs, shorter than XIs and most other MMO buffs..yeah. With how things are unbalanced, I'd rather those 5 minutes be even more useful than longer first.
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#6 Apr 23 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Mistress Theonehio wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Compared to FFXI's 30 minute buffs, I agree 5 minutes is way too short.


Longer than most of the offline title buffs, shorter than XIs and most other MMO buffs..yeah. With how things are unbalanced, I'd rather those 5 minutes be even more useful than longer first.

im wondering if making the buffs last shorter was SE's way of making you stay active what with the lack of auto attack and since every other MMO allows for button rotations.
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#7 Apr 23 2011 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree there is zero reason that things like protect and shell have the timers that they do. buffs that are clearly intended to have near 100% up time should really just have longer durations, unless they intend to make rebuffing during combat a strategic element (which if they do, I'll kindly help them brainstorm some post 1998 boss strategies).
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#8 Apr 23 2011 at 6:06 PM Rating: Good
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i love lamp
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#9 Apr 23 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
unless they intend to make rebuffing during combat a strategic element


I think that would be really neat if they did do that, actually! In many MMOs today, buffs may as well not even exist: they are very low-cost, very fast-cast, and considerably long-lasting, meaning that they merely add in a single, habitual button-press every 30 minutes to an hour... it's not strategic and it's not interesting.

In fact, buffs are so easy to administer that their existence is as mandatory as they themselves are commonplace. In several MMOs, even, the buffs mages have all come down to the same things: increased armour/HP/MP recovery/intelligence that are used more a means of balancing PvP (and PvE, I suppose), of negating the classes' most dire shortcomings, than helping a party in need.

I personally think that it would be interesting if buffs weren't considered mandatory by virtue of their innate efficiency and simplicity, but rather something that a somewhat-skilled player would need to administer strategically throughout the duration of a fight. They could, of course, be reasonably powerful because of this.

In all honesty though, what I think will happen is just an extension of buff duration; then everybody will have the longest-lasting, most powerful buffs active at all times. But, if this were like an offline Final Fantasy, those very buffs would be involved only in the more difficult battles - because their shorter duration makes them less efficient to keep active at all times - and they would add in a small, new dimension to the relevant battles because of that.

Of course, I may just have such a problem with this because there's no buffing class (yet?)... I miss classes like Bard. XD
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#10 Apr 24 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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That's one of my pet peeves about the magic system. It takes forever to cast spells like Protect/Shell and they don't last very long. Most of the time more then half the team runs off before all the buffs are applied.
#11 Apr 24 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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rubina wrote:
That's one of my pet peeves about the magic system. It takes forever to cast spells like Protect/Shell and... Most of the time more then half the team runs off before all the buffs are applied.


That latter point is more a fault with inattentive players than long cast times. The same buffs had similar cast times in FFXI and there were no problems with it, people just had to pay the most basic amount of attention to the battle. Frankly, if you're too stupid to remain near the caster for three seconds, then you don't deserve a buff. Think of it as a test. XD



Edited, Apr 24th 2011 4:30pm by KaneKitty
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#12 Apr 24 2011 at 3:01 PM Rating: Default
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I guess the idea was to avoid buff bots. Now you have to keep the buffers with the group if you want to keep the buffs running. Still, it's pretty annoying, I agree.
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#13 Apr 24 2011 at 5:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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Omena wrote:
I guess the idea was to avoid buff bots. Now you have to keep the buffers with the group if you want to keep the buffs running. Still, it's pretty annoying, I agree.


It seems to me that a bot that has no problem casting a spell every 15-30 minutes wouldn't have a problem casting a spell every 5.

At first I thought that it makes more sense that SE didn't want classes low MP pools to have access to such long-lasting buffs as certain other MMOs, but then I noticed that Protect only used 9 MP. Now I believe that the short duration of buffs is another manifestation of SE trying to make the battles more "fast-paced," much like their decision to make you spam the "1" key instead of auto-attack.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#14 Apr 25 2011 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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yfaithfully wrote:
i love lamp

do you really love lamp or you just saying it because you saw it?
#15 Apr 25 2011 at 7:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
unless they intend to make rebuffing during combat a strategic element


I think that would be really neat if they did do that, actually! In many MMOs today, buffs may as well not even exist: they are very low-cost, very fast-cast, and considerably long-lasting, meaning that they merely add in a single, habitual button-press every 30 minutes to an hour... it's not strategic and it's not interesting.

In fact, buffs are so easy to administer that their existence is as mandatory as they themselves are commonplace. In several MMOs, even, the buffs mages have all come down to the same things: increased armour/HP/MP recovery/intelligence that are used more a means of balancing PvP (and PvE, I suppose), of negating the classes' most dire shortcomings, than helping a party in need.

I personally think that it would be interesting if buffs weren't considered mandatory by virtue of their innate efficiency and simplicity, but rather something that a somewhat-skilled player would need to administer strategically throughout the duration of a fight. They could, of course, be reasonably powerful because of this.

In all honesty though, what I think will happen is just an extension of buff duration; then everybody will have the longest-lasting, most powerful buffs active at all times. But, if this were like an offline Final Fantasy, those very buffs would be involved only in the more difficult battles - because their shorter duration makes them less efficient to keep active at all times - and they would add in a small, new dimension to the relevant battles because of that.

Of course, I may just have such a problem with this because there's no buffing class (yet?)... I miss classes like Bard. XD


Things like casting barfira or stoneskin before a boss's attack is good strategy, recasting protect the 3rd time in a 10 minute fight is poor design by today's standards. Really the only buffs I'm complaining about now, are protect, shell, and shock spikes (though only for the caster of the spell, so maybe its fine the way it is). Those and holding your shield are obviously intended to have 100% upkeep, so why mess around just give those a longer duration. I guess the shield thing may be them trying to make using shield's more interactive, but its a horrible way of doing so.
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#16 Apr 25 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Omena wrote:
I guess the idea was to avoid buff bots. Now you have to keep the buffers with the group if you want to keep the buffs running. Still, it's pretty annoying, I agree.


It seems to me that a bot that has no problem casting a spell every 15-30 minutes wouldn't have a problem casting a spell every 5.

I guess I was slightly unclear here. With "bots" I meant actual people who are there only to give around buffs with no intention of sticking around.
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#17 Apr 25 2011 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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At the end of the day each game is different, I could have used the Bubble buff to last 40 mins on FFXII but it didnt.

Would it be nice, yes.
Is it game breaking, no!
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#18 Apr 25 2011 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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hmmm... you can recast the buff before it wears off, so I fail to see the problem here. If there were a recast timer of 10 minutes and the effect wore off in 5, that would be a problem, but you can have the buff up constantly so there is no problem other than one of perception.

The devs may want to re-evaluate the amount of hate that is generated by casting protect and shell however; doing so mid-fight can cause problems.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 10:51am by Jefro420
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#19 Apr 25 2011 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:
The devs may want to re-evaluate the amount of hate that is generated by casting protect and shell however; doing so mid-fight can cause problems.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 10:51am by Jefro420


Or that might just be what they intended, people have to control hate/agro as much as damage/healing.

You might want to consider reapplying the buff a minute or 2 before it runs out so u dont get too much threat, all this will also impact in MP managment.
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#20 Apr 25 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
unless they intend to make rebuffing during combat a strategic element

I'm guessing that's why they chose the short timer (if there was any sort of logical thinking when they determined it all). I don't mind the 5 min duration if that's their thinking. There's already so little strategy needed for battles that I think if you changed the timer to say 30 min it would just dull down the mage class even more :/ If there's a class that needs to be overhauled its this one.

Somewhat off subject but come to think of it, is there a mob in this game that takes any real strategy at all? I guess you could say the big 3 NMs ~ Buffalo, Ureaus & Dodore (more so before the parties were nerfed to 8)...not much strategy involved with them either though, "Tank, Heal & everyone else DPS = easy victory." There's no crucial Weapon Skills or Spells that you MUST use to defeat them. There's Battle Reg to get the debuffs but you don't necessarily need it either. I'm sure its been said before, but the majority of the skills in this game are so interchangeable that its almost ridiculous. What ever happened to epic battles such as Emerald & Ruby Weapons that took weeks of designing "the perfect battle plan" to destroy? This has been a problem with a lot of the newer FFs in my opinion, not just FFXIV. It feels like ever since they did away with the classic turn based system (where you chose & executed every action by every character) a huge chunk of the skill/strategy was lost in fighting.
#21 Apr 25 2011 at 11:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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scorleone wrote:
I'm sure its been said before, but the majority of the skills in this game are so interchangeable that its almost ridiculous. What ever happened to epic battles such as Emerald & Ruby Weapons that took weeks of designing "the perfect battle plan" to destroy? This has been a problem with a lot of the newer FFs in my opinion, not just FFXIV. It feels like ever since they did away with the classic turn based system (where you chose & executed every action by every character) a huge chunk of the skill/strategy was lost in fighting.


Ah, strategy and controlling your characters: those were the good old days...

On a good note, though, what we've lost in strategy we've gained in graphics! :D ... oh, wait, that's a terrible trade-off... D:
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#22 Apr 25 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
On a good note, though, what we've lost in strategy we've gained in graphics! :D ... oh, wait, that's a terrible trade-off... D:

I couldn't agree more...I don't know how many times I've said this exact same thing about video games and movies alike. Except for with movies nowadays we've traded good acting & great plots for special effects & CG cut scenes.
#23 Apr 25 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Omena wrote:
I guess the idea was to avoid buff bots. Now you have to keep the buffers with the group if you want to keep the buffs running. Still, it's pretty annoying, I agree.
Seems to me that needing to regularly cast buffs would encourage botting, rather than discourage it.
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#24 Apr 25 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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My impression on short buffs is that they're not meant to have a 100% uptime -- just when it counts. I don't spam protect/shell when I'm running around, in town, or just grinding mobs for crystals or mats.

I do use it when I solo leves with mobs 14 ranks above me, or when I'm fighting NMs, and so on. If the buff was 1 hour duration, I'd just refresh its duration from time to time and it would become effectively 100% uptime. Also, I suppose you could equip it, buff yourself, unequip it for some damage WS or somesuch -- by keeping the duration so low, they are making you "keep" protect/shell on your bars and they're making you decide when to use 'em.

As for shield blocking, many other MMOs actually have you click a button to up your block rate every 10 second or so. There are some key differences (FFXIV has it animate slowly, and you get 0% block rate unless you use it, etc.) but it's still a pretty standard mechanic in similar games.. Never got really what the big issue was with it.
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#25 Apr 25 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
My impression on short buffs is that they're not meant to have a 100% uptime -- just when it counts. I don't spam protect/shell when I'm running around, in town, or just grinding mobs for crystals or mats.

I do use it when I solo leves with mobs 14 ranks above me, or when I'm fighting NMs, and so on. If the buff was 1 hour duration, I'd just refresh its duration from time to time and it would become effectively 100% uptime. Also, I suppose you could equip it, buff yourself, unequip it for some damage WS or somesuch -- by keeping the duration so low, they are making you "keep" protect/shell on your bars and they're making you decide when to use 'em.

As for shield blocking, many other MMOs actually have you click a button to up your block rate every 10 second or so. There are some key differences (FFXIV has it animate slowly, and you get 0% block rate unless you use it, etc.) but it's still a pretty standard mechanic in similar games.. Never got really what the big issue was with it.


See I consider any buff thats duration lasts more than your average fight (obviously not some NMs), or the cooldown is less than the duration to typically be on during every fight, so yeah while you may not bother with it sometimes, thats still what the spell is intended to do.
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#26 Apr 25 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
See I consider any buff thats duration lasts more than your average fight (obviously not some NMs), or the cooldown is less than the duration to typically be on during every fight, so yeah while you may not bother with it sometimes, thats still what the spell is intended to do.


You begin with "I consider," but you conclude with "this is what the spell was intended to do." It's just as easy to see the other poster's side: after all, it's not like you require an always-active 10% defence bonus for grinding/farming/fighting easy monsters, which is when the aforementioned poster said they don't bother with the buffs.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#27 Apr 25 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
See I consider any buff thats duration lasts more than your average fight (obviously not some NMs), or the cooldown is less than the duration to typically be on during every fight, so yeah while you may not bother with it sometimes, thats still what the spell is intended to do.


You begin with "I consider," but you conclude with "this is what the spell was intended to do." It's just as easy to see the other poster's side: after all, it's not like you require an always-active 10% defence bonus for grinding/farming/fighting easy monsters, which is when the aforementioned poster said they don't bother with the buffs.


yeah thats fine, but again, I consider that things are designed to be used to the best of their abilities, by good players. Protect and shell in this case, are designed so that they can and will be utilized 100% of the time by players who are attempting to play at their best. The spell was intended to be available 100% of the time, which means its not unreasonable to expect that if it is on someone's bar, it should be used 100% of the time.

I guess where I didn't communicate properly, was in stating 100% uptime, I was referring to meaningful and challenging content. Obviously you do not need protect up 100% of the time spent in the wards, or killing puks for shards.

Edited, Apr 25th 2011 6:48pm by KujaKoF
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#28 Apr 25 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
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I have no issues with people putting protect and shell up all the time. ****, throw in a spikes spell in there, too.

I'll just save myself 15 seconds of rebuffing every 5 minute, personally.
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#29 Apr 25 2011 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with the OP but...as if the buffs had any influence atm on how a fight turned out. Just saying...
#30 Apr 25 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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spitfiredd1 wrote:
for the love of god can they make buffs last longer!! I mean it doesn't have to be about hour like other games (it would be nice though) but is 15 mins too long...


I agree longer buffs would be awsome.
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#31 Apr 26 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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I'd love if the buffs were worth using first. But as a support character, I do detest how ridiculously short the durations are.

As a healer, I've often related healing to something like babysitting mentally-challenged, hyper-active toddlers. To buff them, you have to get each one of them to pay attention long enough to stay in range to cast all of your buffs off. More often then not, they'll get one or two buffs, and run away. Or they'll be running, and I try to buff the majority of the group, and then they run back and cry at me that I didn't buff them.

For one: The buff durations are so short, that a sizable percentage of their duration is already over before I've completed my buff cycle.

For two: Who wants to try to stop a hyper-active kid from waving a sword around long enough to actually buff them?

It's frustrating, and it wouldn't be too difficult for SE to fix. It's a design flaw. I just wish that SE would recognize that.
#32 Apr 28 2011 at 6:52 PM Rating: Decent
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One word: coccoon...

if you think pro and shell have a short duration in XIV...
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#33 Apr 29 2011 at 9:08 AM Rating: Good
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Longer buffs, yes please! It's too **** annoying having to cast them this often, especially since you basically always have them on while in battle. Sometimes, I don't even bother to rebuff my party.... It's just easier to heal them bit more often >_>

And as an offtopic, give us more on-screen skill tabs >:(
#34 Apr 30 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Heartflame wrote:
Who wants to try to stop a hyper-active kid from waving a sword around long enough to actually buff them.... It's a design flaw.


Sounds more like a player flaw - unless you want SE to fix "hyper-active kids" for you. >_>
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"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
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