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Wondering about SP gainFollow

#1 Apr 28 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hi all.

So we have bunch of threads about max SP gain, leve-linking, leve-sharing, grinding on raptors and such. This all got me thinking.

I find that these days the shouts for Broken Water leve-linking parties are getting more and more common -- I assume because that's where most people go, and some of the best SP gain and such. I wouldn't know really, my highest being 35 (as of yesterday), I have only a couple of times ran (solo and duo only) the leves over there, and they are far from ideal SP gain (vs effort) to my lowbie person.

One thing about this all, though, is that I find grouping in this game to be mind-numbingly dumb. I never joined the 16 people eft parties, even though I had THM and CON above 20 back in the days of the old SP system. I usually hanged around empty camps so that I would do behest in groups of 3-4 people.

Nowadays, I play a "tanking" PUG build heavy on counter attacks (Haymaker 2, Jarring strike, Fracture and Feint are on my bars). I never use Flurry, because I'm always hitting Featherfoot or Foresight, or some kind of counter attack, or using light strike for the def/eva buff, and so on. I enjoy that gameplay a ton -- I enjoy soloing the NMs with it, or soloing leves at 4-5* difficulty, often facing mobs 14 ranks above me, two at a time, slowly withering down their HP.

But when I play in parties, I feel all the strategy and fun I get from this game is thrown the *******. I can barely reach a target and hit light strike that it's half dead, then some aoe nuke punches through the area, and it's generally.. well, chaotic and silent. Nobody has time to even type a funny comment or anything, it's straight business only.

So yeah, this is turning into almost a blog or LJ entry, but my point is, I have no fun in groups, no fun zerging bunch of harmless squirells and djiggas, and I can't see myself running the "best leves" like Levinshower every day, purposedly failing it so I get the chance to run it again, day after day until I ding 50.

Grinding on mobs seem to be in no better shape too, as mobs die in reportedly anywhere between 10 and 30 seconds. Latereg was throwing "20 minutes spent running out of 60" when grinding raptors --- am I alone in thinking this is not fun? Running around spawn points, killing a bunch of raptors, then running to the next spawn area?

And I loved XPing and PTing in FFXI so much ._.;
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#2 Apr 28 2011 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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If it wasnt for duoing with my wife or 3 manning with the wife and another LS buddy of mine I would hate the game. I refuse to do those same leves over and over again yes it is mindnumbingly boring and I am not ok with basicly bending or breaking the rules(abandoning leves right before its over)just to max SP.

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 10:32pm by tpgsoldier
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#3 Apr 28 2011 at 8:04 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with you on a lot there. Overall the battle system leaves a lot to be desired, but I have the most fun with pgl going with the evade/counter stuff. Soloing or duoing the new NMs has been some of the most fun I've had in battle because I actually needed to apply a good 'ol FF ability rotation and it was noticeable if I got sloppy with it.(Onlookers slowly creeping up in case I ***** up and die = D)

Progression is fun, but I rather the process be more fun as well. Though I think I could put up with the leve-links for maximum SP gains strategy more if there was more to look forward to beyond r36. The higher-end NMs and special faction leves don't do it for me. I need more motivation = D

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 10:05pm by TwistedOwl
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#4 Apr 28 2011 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Thanks guys, I sure hope this game suddenly surprise me with something, because I'm having trouble motivating myself to log more than once or twice a week these days. :<

On another note:
Just finished soloing Necrologos: The Light's Corrivals in Nophica's 4* difficulty. 3 angry Hippogryphs rank 48 vs little rank35 pugilist? Tough, but **** was that fun! 300 SP each is such a slap to the face, however.

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 10:12pm by Docent42
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#5 Apr 28 2011 at 9:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

Thanks guys, I sure hope this game suddenly surprise me with something, because I'm having trouble motivating myself to log more than once or twice a week these days. :<

On another note:
Just finished soloing Necrologos: The Light's Corrivals in Nophica's 4* difficulty. 3 angry Hippogryphs rank 48 vs little rank35 pugilist? Tough, but **** was that fun! 300 SP each is such a slap to the face, however.

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 10:12pm by Docent42



100% agree with you.
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#6 Apr 28 2011 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I liked the more difficult encounters a lot - but I had people get mad at me when I jacked up the stars on a leve, because it "isn't as efficient" in terms of exp. I think there should be a huge bonus for attacking anything, solo or in a duo or as a set of four or of eight, that is a serious challenge.

I did a couple of my levels on the way to 33 (I think maybe 23 or something? but memory is hazy) on wolves in Coerthas, solo, on THM. It was a lot of fun but at the time I was getting like 200 SP for battles which would deplete my MP beyond what I could siphon back and take double the amount of time of something that would die in two nukes for more SP.

The wolves weren't a huge challenge (although I could definately die to them and did) but I would get so much more SP on prey that posed no threat to me at all - or in some pathetic zerg group.

All the fiddling with exp and groups was a pain for me. I was just starting to get quick levels on THM with the "exp for action" system - people were starting to party more, etc. and then SE said they were improving SP and killed the crab and eft parties that were going on at the time.

Before that patch I could go near camp bloodshore and find people partying on crabs and they would just invite me. It was cool because people were so flexible - the parties were huge and yeah it was zerging but there was at least the strategy of using things that would max people's SP.

I mean we can all agree a battle/reward system that gives people more SP/exp for purposefully NOT mitigating damage, and then healing the resulting damage - is pretty haywire - BUT it was more strategic than the frigging coblyn era.

Are people still grinding cobylns? I swear as long as this game is about grinding coblyns I don't think I can come back.

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#7 Apr 28 2011 at 11:56 PM Rating: Good
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If you're wondering, the current system do give more SP for harder mobs. People grind on Raptor because Raptor is, for all purposes - hard, compared to the like of Wolves and Coblyns. Coblyn, Dodo or Goats give the minimum SP cap, while Mongrel, Eft or Peiste is a tier higher in term of cap SP, Drake and Raptor is an even higher tier. However people do Doblyn/Coblyn because they are easy for soloing, soloing a Drake or Raptor takes much more time and you may even die if not careful.
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#8 Apr 29 2011 at 12:00 AM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
The wolves weren't a huge challenge (although I could definately die to them and did) but I would get so much more SP on prey that posed no threat to me at all - or in some pathetic zerg group.

I think that's pretty much my opinion in a nutshell. I'd love the game to give good incentive to actually take risks and fight dangerous things.

I recently grinded PUG 30ish to 35, mostly solo, some duo. Most of it from leves, and a bit (maybe an entire level total?) from grinding mindlessly puks in the mines. (I don't like coblyns, they are too sturdy now for the SP they give, and I never liked fighting them even before they got buffed)

But when I fight a ant outside of Horizon, or a boar in Coerthas, the SP I gain is around 200, compared to the 60-80 I'll get from a puk that is ridiculously easier to kill, or the 360 I get from killing a sheep if I'm in the middle of a leve.

Quote:
Mongrel, Eft or Peiste is a tier higher in term of cap SP, Drake and Raptor is an even higher tier.

Basically saying the game rewards risk, but only if the risk is associated with a "mob type", and not for actually fighting something 10 ranks above you. Not sure I like that design decision...

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 2:02am by Docent42
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#9 Apr 29 2011 at 12:41 AM Rating: Good
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No, mobs higher ranks also give you more SP compared to mobs same/below your rank. The only thing is it stop giving more SP past that 10 rank difference mark. Leve mobs are weaker compare to mobs outside, provide you the chance of bashing away mobs 10+ ranks higher than you.

For example: (Just an example, it's not real in-game data but the real thing isn't much different)
Doblyn your rank = 100 SP
Doblyn your rank +10 = 250 SP

Drake your rank = 150 SP
Drake your rank +10 = 450 SP

Tier is somewhat like this:
Coblyn, Marmot, Goat, Funguar being the lowest -> Boar, Ant, Bomb -> Mongrel, Eft, Peiste -> Drake, Raptor.

Edited, Apr 29th 2011 2:43am by Khornette
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#10 Apr 29 2011 at 2:21 AM Rating: Good
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yeah still the sheer number of mobs needed to do 35K SP at say 33 is ridiculous. I dunno it took me a month to get to 60+ on just one job in XI (and 30+ in a couple more). I logged into XIV for the first time in awhile tonight and I looked at the SP I was getting, how long it was taking me to get it, and how much I needed to level and I logged out after a couple leves.

Sorry, grinding 1000 mobs per level doesn't equal challenge or content. I have to admit I am dissapointed it is still this way. What's worse is getting those levels doesn't really unlock enough yet to justify the effort. I used to level thinking "when there is more content I will be able to do it" but meh.

Didn't help that when I logged in some person asked me where I had been and then when I told him XI, he proceeded to tell me how easy it was etc.

Blerg. Anyway will be keeping an eye on the game if things change please talk about it, lol.
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#11 Apr 29 2011 at 2:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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At the moment, there is 0 challenge in leveling. Except the challenge to waste hours of your time with mindless zergs.

I don't know. Perhaps that's how people like it nowadays?
#12 Apr 29 2011 at 2:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
At the moment, there is 0 challenge in leveling. Except the challenge to waste hours of your time with mindless zergs.

I don't know. Perhaps that's how people like it nowadays?


No this is the old school way, SE just hasnt realized they are 8+ years behind the times. Wake up SE its not 2003 anymore!
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#13 Apr 29 2011 at 3:02 AM Rating: Good
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Making the encounters more chalenging (which I'm all for) will eventually make the game requiring party grouping instead of the solo friendly feel it has at the moment and then all **** will break loose.

You will have some of the old people from XI say this is going back to basics and having to look for parties for hours and you will have people say that the game is no longer casual/solo friendly.

One of the reasons why I liked FFXI so much was because the level of dificulty it had and the level of comitment needed to achieve anything in that game. I still enjoy FFXIV as it is but would prefer a return to FFXI approach to fighting.
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#14 Apr 29 2011 at 9:30 AM Rating: Decent
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well I really like the model going on in XI right now - I realize it is a product of a game that has been out for 9 years and has lots besides grinding to keep people busy - but leveling itself is much less painful than in XIV but there are a lot of things to slow you down (AF, level breaks, doing missions/quests, etc)

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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#15 Apr 29 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
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tpgsoldier wrote:
If it wasnt for duoing with my wife or 3 manning with the wife and another LS buddy of mine I would hate the game. I refuse to do those same leves over and over again yes it is mindnumbingly boring and I am not ok with basicly bending or breaking the rules(abandoning leves right before its over)just to max SP.

Edited, Apr 28th 2011 10:32pm by tpgsoldier

SE has stated that failing leves so that they can be retried is an intended mechanic, not a cheat or an exploit.
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#16 Apr 29 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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Jefro420 wrote:

SE has stated that failing leves so that they can be retried is an intended mechanic, not a cheat or an exploit.


It is still lame fail. The best way to advance in a game shouldn't be to intentionally fail quests.



Edited, Apr 29th 2011 10:11am by Olorinus
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#17 Apr 29 2011 at 11:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Olorinus wrote:
It is still lame fail. The best way to advance in a game shouldn't be to intentionally fail quests.

Wouldn't it be funny if SE made leves act like Goblin Maze Monger, and only give like 25% of the XP per kill, and the remaining 75% at the end of the leve?

I can already hear the rage...
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#18 Apr 29 2011 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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I think it would be good. If they leave a mechanic in place that awards people with better skill point gain for failure than success... well then this game will never get where it needs to be.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#19 Apr 30 2011 at 3:44 AM Rating: Good
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tpgsoldier wrote:
If it wasnt for duoing with my wife or 3 manning with the wife and another LS buddy of mine I would hate the game.

Yup, I would have quit a month ago if not for my girlfriend still playing daily.

All we really do as far as SP is get into the 30s, mostly by Behest, and then fail Dunesfolk, Ranine, and Cracked Up every reset to 50. It's just an extremely long line of fights where the mobs pose no threat, and you barely have to be conscious. "Run here, here, and here for your SP. Make sure to come back in 36 hours, OK?" That's all we've got.
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#20 Apr 30 2011 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm going to go against the grain here. I solo'd MRD all the way to 34 and I'll tell you @ 34 I was ready to pack it in, then I happened onto a linkshell static and rode that straight to 50 by washing leves and grinding mobs. I'll 100% agree that leves = SP zerg, no denying that, but I actually quite enjoyed it with the group I did it with. Additionally they took me to SP camps in Coerthas (I had never been) and we grinded out on Piestes and such which is where I learned about Battle Regimes and how MRD can play a support / dd role etc.

Now I am doing the same with my Lancer and loving it, I've already spotted some level 56 Doblyns outside Ul'dah that I plan to work on when I'm at a more appropriate level. Now that I have MRD @ 50 I've been practising and playing around with the skills available to me by tanking the new NMs for ppl in my linkshells (that’s right I have more than one and I can still function) so they can get the drops they are after.

There will always be an element of zerg to levelling a character but didn't Yoshi P state that one of the aims of the new battle system was individualising jobs so that parties become more dynamic and defined?

I'd even go as far as saying that I never really appreciated how to play my WAR in XI correctly until I hit 75. I say ride the wave while you can as we now changes are on the way.
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#21 May 01 2011 at 11:42 PM Rating: Good
I have been playing the game since CE release, and I have yet to have one rank 50, (close, but not there yet).

The thing that I see is the numbness grinding that has to be performed to reach each rank. The leves actually break up that slow grind, however, the grind itself is inherinetly a part of FF. The only thing that I regret is the fact that the leves are some of the best ways to level beyond 40, and yes, my linkshell does end the leve early, but at 1K sp per each mob (Dunes) and 600+ per each mob (Ranine), this is an efficient way to level at this stage, and we enjoy the challenge as a party. As we approach 50, we increase the star value for more challenge. We call it a "suicide" mission and enjoy it. Yes, we come back every 36 hrs, but atm this can be seen as fun. Sorry, nothing else much to do.

Now with that being said, I am getting a little apprehensive as I approach the 50 rank, and have started to rank up other jobs. I mean, what is there to do after 50. I agree that right now it is for the spouse and the linkshell that I am in that keeps me interested in the game. I am new to the MMO scene as of FFXIV, and while it was down, I did get a taste of another MMO such as RIFT. No, I am not going to discuss that here.

However, as has been said many times, there is no content atm. I believe, or at least hope, that it is coming. It will be interesting to see what the game has towards the end of this summer.
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#22 May 02 2011 at 4:35 AM Rating: Decent
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I think that in a game as open as a MMORPG we players can set out own targets to aim for. Now that you're close to 50 you can start looking at T3 leves, open world r50 NMs. Opefully in 6 weeks the new dungeons will be out and there will be more stuff to do.
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#23 May 02 2011 at 4:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I could be wrong, but I think Drakes are a higher tier than raptors. At level 46 I was soloing level 60 Drakes for 600sp each, which appears to be the max for the tier. Never seen a raptor give me 600sp, and I would solo a lot grinding up to 50 with GLA.

Drake parties give the most SP outside of a linked leve. Of course you have to have an organized group using BR. If you have that you should not be fighting raptors post R45.
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#24 May 02 2011 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
Hugus wrote:
I think that in a game as open as a MMORPG we players can set out own targets to aim for. Now that you're close to 50 you can start looking at T3 leves, open world r50 NMs. Hopefully in 6 weeks the new dungeons will be out and there will be more stuff to do.


SilEface wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think Drakes are a higher tier than raptors. At level 46 I was soloing level 60 Drakes for 600sp each, which appears to be the max for the tier. Never seen a raptor give me 600sp, and I would solo a lot grinding up to 50 with GLA.

Drake parties give the most SP outside of a linked leve. Of course you have to have an organized group using BR. If you have that you should not be fighting raptors post R45.


Agreed, and I am also excited about the upcoming patch. One of the things that I did not mention, is that the linkshell that I belong to has a small group whom's sole purpose is to teach the "new ones" like myself the ins and outs of BR and organized party play. So many seasoned MMO'ers forget that we need this type of instruction, it both helps you not get totally frustrated with us, but also allows us to effectively enjoy the game for what it is designed for.

So to those of you, I say thanks.
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