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An article I found called "A Planet w/o SE"Follow

#102 May 30 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
3,226 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
The point I was trying to make, and you seemed to have missed, is that Dragon age 2 on its own is a quality game. I'm not saying its a 10/10, or even a 9/10, but its better than most games published. Like FF13, its problem is being compared to another game from the same company that players liked more. Yes, if you liked Dragon age origins, Neverwinter nights, baulders gate etc, dragon age 2 is pretty low by comparison, doesn't really belong in the same series, and is a pretty far stretch from whats come before it. Dragon Age 2 on its own merits, is good enough.

Reread your post, friend, and you will quickly realize how silly your statement is.

Yes, if you liked Dragon age origins, Neverwinter nights, baulders gate etc, dragon age 2 is pretty low by comparison, doesn't really belong in the same series, and is a pretty far stretch from whats come before it.

In that case, I wonder why they made Dragon Age 2 at all. Hint: EA wanted to cash in on the success of DA:O as soon as possible.

You are far too lenient of a consumer if you think it's okay for developers to release mediocre games that are "good enough" for people without a long-term memory. When a company has a history of critically and commercially acclaimed games, you ought to expect--no, you ought to demand--equal or greater quality productions. Not holding them to a high standard means they can rest on their laurels and take your money with as little effort on their part as possible. This could range from yearly sequels, to sloppy productions, to endless rehashing. Could you envision a world where massive video game conglomerates release the same games and expect people to pay full price each time?

I can.

So while it is important to judge a game on its own merits, we can't completely forget the standard companies set for themselves by virtue of the games they released before.

I could pretend Dragon Age 2 was the very first game from hip, new Canadian developer Bioware. I have often tried to imagine DA2 as not part of the DA franchise, rather a self-contained Hawke's Adventures in Kirkwall. Still, "on its own merits," this game has numerous problems which make it a bad RPG and an especially awful Bioware RPG. But I won't enumerate them here. PM me if you give a ****.
#103 May 31 2011 at 11:14 AM Rating: Excellent
11,539 posts
I didn't buy DA2 solely because I disliked that I was stuck as a human and I wanted to be a city elf again. Unfair? Perhaps, but that's my reason.

As for 13: I reserved it, I anticipated it, I waited for it at midnight, I bought it... I was happy for about the first hour, and I was sick of it and felt like I was being punished for something I did by hour 3. By hour 5, I simply couldn't take it anymore and have never touched the game since.

As for 14: I reserved it, I anticipated it, I played in the closed beta... I was happy for about the first week, and I was sick of it and wondered how a company that made FFXI could have learned absolutely nothing from their success, as if they had sat down with a list of everything that made FFXI great and titled that list "Things not to do" and just went from there. Yes, I understand that MMORPGs take time to develop. Yes, I understand that FFXI was a shell of a game at release too, and turned out great. Here's the problem: SE released FFXI in a world that had virtually no MMO competition. When you invent something NEW, like a car you have to crank to start, people will still be willing to put up with the inconveniences and the bugs because it's new and there isn't a whole lot of other things like it.

However, if any car company tried to get away with that now, with promises of "Oh, we're looking into taking the crank thing, and maybe adding some Air Conditioning next year, perhaps even a locking mechanism...." no one would buy it. Well, I won't say no one; there would always be a few people that just had to have it, but most consumers would pass it over for something someone else already had that works out of the box.

That was SE's folly with 14: They had gratuitous amounts of energy in terms of how many things needed fixing, and they ignored almost all of it.

Now I count myself in with the "Oh, it'll get better at release; this is just beta." crowd. I repeated this on these very forums numerous times.

And then the day came when I tried to get the game at midnight, failed (because by this point, popular interest had already waned to the point that most people had canceled their preorders), and had to wait till morning. I popped the game in, installed it expecting all of these "It's just beta" issues to magically be fixed...

And I saw no difference between the open beta game and the retail game.

Now, I was sick of FF13 within 3 hours, which made it the first FF game I ever DID NOT want to play. To point: Every previous title behind it, numbered or otherwise (yes, even Mystic Quest), I picked up and played religiously until I could play no more. FF13 was the first game that, instead of my usual euphoric "OHMYGODTHISGAMEISGREAT" feeling, I was left with a "When does the FUN start?" (The answer, by asking around, is 15-20 hours).

FF14 took that already low bar and limboed under it like a pro. 14 was the first SE game I had become bored of within my first hour of playing. Only ONE other game has ever failed to hook me faster than FF14 (Kingdom Hearts 2, incidentally; I got about 45 mins in before I started screaming WHEN WILL THE CUTSCENES END and slit my own throat with the disk). Unlike FF13, where I played it for another 2 hours because I felt like, for my $60, I might as well at least try to get my money's worth, this time I had sunk $150 (two collector's editions, one for me and one for my wife), and so now BOTH OF US felt compelled to be FORCED to play the game, lest our $150 was wasted.

You know what the only thing worse than buying a game, being let down, and forcing yourself to play it is? Buying TWO games and playing together with your wife who ALSO feels forced to play it, because she wasted her own $75 in anticipation of how awesome it was going to be. (Plus, we both built new computers for the game, so there's THAT money too)

The only thing FF13 did for me is make me want to play FF12 again, and the only thing FF14 did for me is make me want to play FF11 again.

Now don't get me wrong here: FF14 has one HUGE advantage over 13: It can get better and has been. Whereas 13 will forever be a stagnant pile of terrible that I put on my "other" game shelf with the games I don't like instead of my good shelf with the games I do, FF14 actually HAS the potential to improve and get better. My litmus test is money. Once I hear that SE is charging for FF14, THAT is my cue to come back and try it again because that's how I'll know they feel it's ready.

I just hope that it still hasn't become an afterthought before it reaches this point, especially considering that SE is already talking about releasing a new MMORPG. I said this in another thread over in XI main, but when you have one game that is relatively successful and a second game that needs a lot of work, why are you spending money on a NEW game? This makes no business sense at all.

Before I end up with a post as long as the OP, I'll try to end with this:

I want SE to be successful. Unfortunately, I don't think SE wants SE to be successful.

Edited, May 31st 2011 1:17pm by Mikhalia

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#104 May 31 2011 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
1,609 posts
Before I end up with a post as long as the OP, I'll try to end with this

I wasn't wanting my orginal post to be so long T_T, it's not my fault! I just don't like posting links and then not posting it's content T_T *Sniffles*

But yeah seriously yours was getting on the lengthy side :D

"I've never watched a nuclear explosion myself. That's a couple of degrees of stupid above my limit"- Old Man Harris
#105 May 31 2011 at 6:31 PM Rating: Good
551 posts
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:

I want SE to be successful. Unfortunately, I don't think SE wants SE to be successful.

I think that sums up the last few years very well.

#106 May 31 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
21,739 posts
Zorvan wrote:
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
I want SE to be successful. Unfortunately, I don't think SE wants SE to be successful.
I think that sums up the last few years very well.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#107 May 31 2011 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
123 posts
Zorvan wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
FF13 wasn't a bad game, it was a bad game compared to the rest of the ff series, where it didn't really fit in. Mass effect 2 and dragon age 2 are 2 more examples, both are quality games, but both veered off their previous paths that the previous fans nerd raged out and blasted the series. bit of an off topic rant, but its something thats been on my mind every time I read this thread.


I hated Final fantasy XIII mostly because it was drivel to me when considered as a Final Fantasy game.

However, if they'd simply made it a new IP, such as calling it "Lightning's Crusade" or something, I would have at least given it marks for being an "adequate" JRPG and perhaps even played a sequel to it. As it stands with FFXIII, S-E has no hopes of seeing me break out my wallet for ANY of the FFXIII sequels and FFXV ( if there is one ) will NOT be a day one purchase for me unlike all of the FF titles before FFXIII ( yes, even FFX-2:p ).

You'd have to make those specifications even broader, because FFXIII was more of an action game then a RPG. The graphics and the world they created (again, what the **** is wrong with SE? How can they beautifully build FFXIII's world and then make the ******** that is FFXIV?) were amongst the best I have ever seen. The fighting was entertaining from an aesthetic point of view, but it was boring. The characters sucked, the story was horrible, and I like I previously mentioned, the cherry on top of SE's **** sundae, ITS NOT AN RPG, it's not even close to it. Putting aside the fact that one of the idiots that developed the game said himself that FFXIII is more of an FPS, FFXIII does in fact create it's own genre. The only thing giving it the title of a video game is the fact that it's for the XBOX360. The sheer ability to beat the game fighting everything in your path has me questioning whether I'm playing a video game.

The weird thing is that Chapter 11 (Gran Pulse) is actually phenomenal. Now just make an entire game like that, like you're capable of SE.

I can not for the life of me figure out how such a company can take such a huge step backwards. It's baffling.
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