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Summoner - The first of the new classes?Follow

#102 Jun 07 2011 at 5:16 PM Rating: Decent
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Why are you people arguing over a concept that hasn't been relevant in years in a thread that has little to do with your topic on a board for a completely different game?
#103 Jun 07 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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Redyoshi wrote:
Why are you people arguing over a concept that hasn't been relevant in years in a thread that has little to do with your topic on a board for a completely different game?


Because the on-topic game doesn't have enough content to maintain a dedicated discussion?
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#104 Jun 07 2011 at 8:28 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Redyoshi wrote:
Why are you people arguing over a concept that hasn't been relevant in years in a thread that has little to do with your topic on a board for a completely different game?


Because the on-topic game doesn't have enough content to maintain a dedicated discussion?


{True Strike}
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#105 Jun 07 2011 at 10:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whether or not the pet class is balanced it won't matter. What will matter is how we the players decide to use it to our advantage. Its been 2yrs since I stopped playing FFXI, but I can't remember when a SMN was ever turned down from a Kirin battle, or when BST wasn't useful in a BC. I highly doubt that some of the strategies that have been used were ever considered by the developers. On top of that, I'm sure most jobs are not played the way they were intended in the beginning. I personally would like to have a pet class even if its just for throwing my pet at something long enough to run screaming like a ***** to the safe side of the map.
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#106 Jun 08 2011 at 5:24 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-final-fantasy/715341

See how the little Moogle follows him about? That would be a great way to start Summoner in FFXIV. Instead of Carbuncle being the go to pet, have a moogle!

I like the way summons were used in pre-XI games, and would love to see them as only a temporary ability, like on long cooldowns and can be summoned to mess up the target, and then disappear, bringing back your faithful Moogle to continue doing damage with his weaker ranged spell shots.
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#107 Jun 08 2011 at 5:48 AM Rating: Good
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I think this was mentioned before but...

FFXIV lore wise the moogles are an existing race, as such they would not be able to be a summon as such, maybe a hunter.shepperd pet but not a summon.
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#108 Jun 08 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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Redyoshi wrote:
Why are you people arguing over a concept that hasn't been relevant in years in a thread that has little to do with your topic on a board for a completely different game?


Because look at these forums. There are literally no other topics to talk about that haven't been dead horsed repeatedly, so instead of actually doing some work at our jobs, we come here to waste some time in any way possible.
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#109 Jun 08 2011 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Redyoshi wrote:
Why are you people arguing over a concept that hasn't been relevant in years in a thread that has little to do with your topic on a board for a completely different game?


Because look at these forums. There are literally no other topics to talk about that haven't been dead horsed repeatedly, so instead of actually doing some work at our jobs, we come here to waste some time in any way possible.


This is so true that it makes me sad, long were the days that I spend reading THF forums to know how to actually play it (you might not believe it but I spent about 2 months looking though the old alla forums for FFXI before I actually started playing the game).
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#110 Jun 08 2011 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Redyoshi wrote:
Why are you people arguing over a concept that hasn't been relevant in years in a thread that has little to do with your topic on a board for a completely different game?


Because look at these forums. There are literally no other topics to talk about that haven't been dead horsed repeatedly, so instead of actually doing some work at our jobs, we come here to waste some time in any way possible.


This is so true that it makes me sad, long were the days that I spend reading THF forums to know how to actually play it (you might not believe it but I spent about 2 months looking though the old alla forums for FFXI before I actually started playing the game).


I'm rating you up for actually putting some time into learning a job instead of just zerging it to 75. I always do the same, because what's the point of playing a class if you can't play it to the best of its abilities?
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#111 Jun 08 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Hugus wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Redyoshi wrote:
Why are you people arguing over a concept that hasn't been relevant in years in a thread that has little to do with your topic on a board for a completely different game?


Because look at these forums. There are literally no other topics to talk about that haven't been dead horsed repeatedly, so instead of actually doing some work at our jobs, we come here to waste some time in any way possible.


This is so true that it makes me sad, long were the days that I spend reading THF forums to know how to actually play it (you might not believe it but I spent about 2 months looking though the old alla forums for FFXI before I actually started playing the game).


I'm rating you up for actually putting some time into learning a job instead of just zerging it to 75. I always do the same, because what's the point of playing a class if you can't play it to the best of its abilities?


That's great you guys can research a job and then pick it up and play. I have to do hands on with it and interact with the community so I can figure it out. Lol... So sorry for zerging for a while :). I just really need visuals.
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#112 Jun 08 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I've won the argument a long time ago against people who don't want to admit it.


There is only one winner here and that's sub-default. A close second would be my wyvern.
#113 Jun 08 2011 at 1:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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Dear ForceOfMeh,

How in the **** did you ever get to be a sage? Me figures some off-topic forum spamming, because you, good sir are an idiot.

-The Management
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#114 Jun 08 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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LillithaFenimore wrote:

That's great you guys can research a job and then pick it up and play. I have to do hands on with it and interact with the community so I can figure it out. Lol... So sorry for zerging for a while :). I just really need visuals.


Clearly if you are here at the forums you do more than JUST zerg though. I was more referring to the people that clearly don't give a crap about their performance and just race to hit the cap ASAP. I really hate those kind of players, because more often than not they have no clue how to play their job, and it effects the whole group they are leveling with.
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50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
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#115 Jun 08 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Decent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
bsphil wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
I could be wrong, though there's little chance you'll convince me
I can tell, that's why I'm not bothering.

Besides, I haven't played the game in months and everything about the game has changed so much in the last year that it doesn't really matter anymore how 75 cap worked.


Thanks for coming out.


thanks for reminding me that the defining characteristic of incompetence is a complete lack of any ability to self-evaluate.

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#116ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 08 2011 at 11:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) After given what you said some thought, I've reached the conclusion that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.
#117Doriphor, Posted: Jun 12 2011 at 5:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Some of you guys are just fantasizing, the chances of some type of SMN - although probably renamed/remodeled just like the other classes in the game - are pretty good but don't expect Black Mage, White Mage, (and to a lesser extent Warrior and Dragoon) unless the current job system is COMPLETELY changed, the actualy status of the game's job system is : one weapon type per class, with mix and match abilities/spells, so since the spear/lance is already taken, no Dragoon (unless they decide to give Dragoon halberds since there's like, only 2 or 3 halberd type weapons in the lancer's weapons?) Warrior might get 2 handed swords, we might be able to hope for DRK with scythe, And then for WHM and BLM ... Both their weapons and magic are already dispatched in Thaumaturge and Conjurer.
#118 Jun 12 2011 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Your biggest problem with adding in new classes is the kind of weapons they'll use? It's not hard to come up with unique and relevant weapons; let's do summoner:

Summoner could use use: Scrolls / Pacts / Books / Heavy Poles / Lanterns / etc.

All of the above are objects that can be easily "charged with magic energy" or some such nonsense, and each still aligns with the "summoner feel" of containing avatars and being a generally weak physical attacker. Additionally, the animations for most of them (i.e. scrolls, pacts, books, lanterns) can just involve easy-to-make "hold it aloft and magic shoots out" type skills for their physical attacks and casting.
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#119 Jun 13 2011 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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Doriphor wrote:
Some of you guys are just fantasizing, the chances of some type of SMN - although probably renamed/remodeled just like the other classes in the game - are pretty good but don't expect Black Mage, White Mage, (and to a lesser extent Warrior and Dragoon) unless the current job system is COMPLETELY changed, the actualy status of the game's job system is : one weapon type per class, with mix and match abilities/spells, so since the spear/lance is already taken, no Dragoon (unless they decide to give Dragoon halberds since there's like, only 2 or 3 halberd type weapons in the lancer's weapons?) Warrior might get 2 handed swords, we might be able to hope for DRK with scythe, And then for WHM and BLM ... Both their weapons and magic are already dispatched in Thaumaturge and Conjurer.


If it wasn't for SE already having stated that they were gona introduce (classic) jobs in the game based on the appropriate class that gives you access to it this might have made some sense. As it is it seems you just not up to date on the ifnormation distributed from SE.
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#120 Jun 13 2011 at 2:07 AM Rating: Default
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I heard of this info once, so it's true? Lol I guess ... yep I'm a bit late xD I thought the Materia system was a fan's wet dream ... I was so wrong, so wrong ;p Well disregard all I said, or imagine i said it couple months ago! :D Cheers
#121ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 2:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I've been demoted from sage as you can see, thanks to your ceaseless attacks to my personage. It's easy to attack me. I'm a piece of ****. I sully the title of "Sage" (whatever that's supposed to mean, anyway).
#122 Jun 13 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Default
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Interesting how a thread about summoners can degrade into 2 women having a washerwomans wail at each other about posting karma.
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#123 Jun 13 2011 at 7:05 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Zam circa 2004
lol that's what you're citing?
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#124 Jun 13 2011 at 7:16 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Zam circa 2004
lol that's what you're citing?
The game couldn't have changed that much in seven years.
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#125ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 7:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) But that's exactly what I'm driving at.
#126 Jun 13 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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At least then, you'd have someone to rally around


Um...surely pet jobs wouldn't have a problem in that area.

Ahh the good old days, sitting round the camp fire with a dire bat by my side.

Brokeback mountains got nothing on BrokeBAT mountain let me tell you!!


#127 Jun 13 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Dragoon started off verrry powerful. More powerful than it is now. One weaponskill made it so: Pentathrust. Pentathrust delivered massive TP returns which allowed you to spam it constantly. That, plus wyvern damage made it the best damage dealing job in the game.

What did SE do?

Nerfed it to the stone age.
Ha ha, I love making up alternate history, too!
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#128 Jun 13 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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ReiThor wrote:
I think you're thinking of FFVIII. That was your first Guardian Force.


That's still not exactly right....the first GFs you actually have are Quezacotl and Shiva. Ifrit is just the first one you earn.
#129 Jun 13 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
bsphil wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Zam circa 2004
lol that's what you're citing?
The game couldn't have changed that much in seven years.
But that's exactly what I'm driving at.
Well, that's where you go wrong.

Not only has the game changed drastically, but players and the knowledge of game mechanics have changed drastically as well. This is particularly important to take note of, considering how secretive most of the basic functions of the game are. It took a sh*tton of detailed, controlled testing and statistical modeling to learn how the physical damage formula works, and it took a long time before people started to understand that information and how to apply it.

The last year or so I had played (2009), people still ate sushi at low levels.

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 4:46pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#130ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 5:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, where I go wrong is that I keep posting so you can rate me down more.
#132 Jun 13 2011 at 6:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Dragoon started off verrry powerful. More powerful than it is now. One weaponskill made it so: Pentathrust. Pentathrust delivered massive TP returns which allowed you to spam it constantly. That, plus wyvern damage made it the best damage dealing job in the game.

What did SE do?

Nerfed it to the stone age.
Ha ha, I love making up alternate history, too!


You certainly do. But here's what really happened.

Pentathrust March 2004:
Quote:
From my days of toiling between these two classes, the most popular beliefs are that Skewer does about the same damage as Guillotine, but has 1 less hit and higher hit%. Pentathrust does less than either, but has 1 more hit than guillo. Some people say Penta's obsolete after you get skewer. I'd beg to differ - I'd use pentathrust first in a battle to get 4 or 5 hits worth of TP back after doing 4-5x normal hit damage, then jump, high jump, and then i may have enuf tp for a Skewer before the end of battle (or if not, i can repeat the process in the next battle, probably minus high jump). If you have a SAM sub, Penta would also not be useless after you get skewer...start with 94%+ tp, use meditate, spam Penta til it activates (after first 6% tick from meditate), then u get 4-5 hits of TP back and meditate continues for 50% more TP, and then you can Skewer (note: 90% of the forums i read say u get 60% tp out of meditate over 10 seconds with SAM as your sub, though I haven't a high enough SAM sub to try it yet). And, of course, as long as you're careful about AoE attacks, your wyvern should be dishing out plenty of damage. As for the DRKs, I wouldn't expect to dish out as many weapon skills with them due to more missing, no wyvern, and no jumps, but a little more base damge, drain, aspir, and the absorbs make up for it.

http://www.zam.com/forum.html?fjob=14&mid=1079471884929169627&page=1&howmany=50#msg1079497429226536437

Pentathrust April 2004:
Quote:
God knows I sent mine in, please, everyone, get behind this... KILL THE FLYING RAT FOR GODS SAKE GIVE ME MY TP BACK!

http://www.zam.com/forum.html?fjob=14&mid=1082580865338521158&page=1&howmany=50#msg1082651730485235676


yeah and seriously, I remember that whole thing because I was a dragoon, and it was blown way out of proportion. my group started using parser shortly after that happened, and I found I was still outdamaging most other DPS classes who had similar gear over the course of the night. Yeah Dragoon had garbage weapon skills for a while after that, and yes if you were dumb enough to let your wyvern die after 2-3 pulls it sucked. Dragoon was still a very competitive DPS class for a huge range of levels. Then by about 2005 or 2006, I don't recall I wasn't really playing anymore, there was a massive buff to 2 handed weapons and Dragoon started looking pretty good again.

In short, quoting people who overreacted shows you don't know as much about what you're talking about as you think you do.
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#133ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 7:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) OMFG.
#134 Jun 13 2011 at 7:16 PM Rating: Excellent
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The TP Change was because of Monks, ******.
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#135ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 8:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And it was indelibly known as the "Pentathrust nerf" because of the Monks. You're brilliant.
#136 Jun 13 2011 at 8:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
There was never a time where monks were in the LFP wilderness.
Are you actively trying to prove you've never played or read about FFXI?
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#137ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 8:59 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, I'm trying to prove it doesn't matter what I say a moron like you who thinks he knows it all is going to get the rate up, while I throw facts, figures, quote the people who were experiencing the failed job live at the scene in 2004, and I'm still going to be hit.
#138 Jun 13 2011 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
You don't offer anything to the debate other than, "Ugh, you're wrong," and you're beloved for it.
Why offer more when your argument is essentially 1+1=3?
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I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#139 Jun 13 2011 at 9:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Until Kuja came along, you've demonstrated quite forcefully that you're just a bunch of troglodytes.

[...]

You don't offer anything to the debate other than, "Ugh, you're wrong," and you're beloved for it. If I'm wrong than prove it. WTF is the matter with you people? You don't put any effort into discussions around here.
Kuja didn't offer any more proof than anyone else, just more unbased claims. Curious why you think that's so much more impressive.

ForceOfMeh wrote:
I've been as cordial as I could possibly be in these circumstances
You have a strange definition of cordial.



Edited, Jun 13th 2011 10:26pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#140 Jun 13 2011 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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ok I can't even follow this debate anymore, and I have no idea whose side I'm apparently on.
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#141ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 10:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I'm sorry if by calling Louiscool "delusional" I upset your delicate constitution.
#142ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 10:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You don't really need to when you're grinding off my infamy. Why give credence that the Sage title means you can offer something smart to say so people can be impressed and learn something? You're doing a great job demonstrating what a joke it is.
#143 Jun 13 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
You don't really need to when you're grinding off my infamy.
And I'm sure you've gained your infamy from your decision to tell the truth no one wants to hear. Not from, you know, being stubbornly wrong.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#144ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 10:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Can you explain to the audience what I'm wrong about? If it's so obvious it's should be easy to prove. And hey, you can get even more rate ups just by playing!
#145 Jun 13 2011 at 10:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Can you explain to the audience what I'm wrong about? [...] And hey, you can get even more rate ups just by playing!
For one, you think I'm doing this for karma.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#146ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 10:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Sure, you aren't, what with all the thoughtful one-liners you've been offering up this whole time.
#147 Jun 13 2011 at 10:46 PM Rating: Good
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Sure, you aren't, what with all the thoughtful one-liners you've been offering up this whole time.
Your being consistently wrong is still being consistent. That's considered a positive trait to some people.

Here's a clue.

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 12:48am by lolgaxe
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#148ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 11:37 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're showing me proof that you're the 12th most prolific poster on this site as proof that you're not grinding at this moment right now?
#149 Jun 13 2011 at 11:38 PM Rating: Good
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Still consistent.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#150ForceOfMeh, Posted: Jun 13 2011 at 11:56 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) +1 for lolgaxe. Rate him up, people! This guy needs to make Guru.
#151 Jun 14 2011 at 1:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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Holy crap, what a bloody cesspool this has turned into...

On topic:
- Pet classes, yes please
- Balanced DPS, yes please


Just because they have a pet, does not mean they will be the "ZOMG OP CLASS".
If done correctly, they should be balanced with the other DPS classes, and based around their pet for damage.

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 3:07am by Shurbryn
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