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Another Benchmark QuestionFollow

#52 May 25 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Crevox wrote:
Definitely not. GDQ requires a lot more than that out of a graphics card than a GTX 480, and especially more if you're using AO.


GDQ? Does it support SLI? If so then it would take advantage of the second GTX 480 I have in my case. Regardless, I'm sure I'd pull much more than 13 FPS maxed out. As you could see I was well above comfortable running DX11 bench with 8x AA and extreme tessellation enabled.

Quote:
In addition, I wonder how your CPU is using 48.13 threads on the game with a 6 core.

I didn't want to make a folder full of screenshots, but opening the FFXIV process shows that the bulk of it's processes run on two cores and are not spread across the CPU. Open your process to see how many threads you are using and how much of each thread. XIV had a bunch of smaller processes spread out across a few cores with most of the processes running on only a few threads.

This would lead you to believe that running 2 cores would be enough, but if you do your usage shoots up closer to 100%. My processor has a feature that downclocks half the cores and boosts the rest during points of lower usage. It seems like something that would be more efficient but that is not the case with FFXIV.

With all of this talk about SSD vs HDD and stuttering you're missing the most important piece of the pie. The CPU usage is what causes most of the lag and stuttering, not the drive. Upgrading from HDD to SSD has zero effect on lag and stuttering. It only causes data to load faster. Pretty ******* obvious.



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#53 May 25 2011 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
With all of this talk about SSD vs HDD and stuttering you're missing the most important piece of the pie. The CPU usage is what causes most of the lag and stuttering, not the drive. Upgrading from HDD to SSD has zero effect on lag and stuttering. It only causes data to load faster. Pretty @#%^ing obvious.
Even broader and more important of a point, why is anyone still taking him seriously when at least a third of all of his posts have been completely wrong?



Edited, May 25th 2011 5:20pm by bsphil
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#54 May 25 2011 at 5:15 PM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Crevox wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Crevox wrote:
bsphil wrote:
That would've been neat had that actually happened when I ran the game on a SSD.
It does remove the stuttering, but does not increase FPS. I never once said it did increase FPS, or affect constant FPS. It also decreases load times.
It did not remove the stuttering. It DID lower load times though, but that's exactly what I expected from it.


If it didn't, that means something else is lacking too. The stuttering occurs from the game loading content from the hard drive as you run into memory. You could have a low amount of RAM (requiring the game to use the paging file excessively, and unless you had the paging file on the SSD, the SSD wouldn't help this) or your CPU could be lacking.


Or it could just be that you're full of crap... just sayin. ^^

I run an i7 960 OC'd, Radeon 5870 2gb, and 8 mb ddr3 1600 RAM. It makes NO difference in the stuttering going from my regular HD to my SSD. As bsphil said, it reduced load times, and that's about it.


I don't know what to tell you then. All of what I have said produces the stuttering, and I personally do not have it at all.

Quote:
8 GB RAM, i7 processor.

Look, just cut your losses while you're behind.


I don't know the cause then, sorry. All of what I said contributes to the stuttering.
#55 May 25 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
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1,606 posts
bsphil wrote:
Yeah, bumped it up to a 7.8 for the hard drive.

**sigh**
Happen to know which model it was? I was going to pay real estate tax this month but I guess I'll buy a hard drive instead.

Edited, May 25th 2011 7:22pm by MrTalos
#56 May 25 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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MrTalos wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Yeah, bumped it up to a 7.8 for the hard drive.

**sigh**
Happen to know which model it was? I was going to pay real estate tax this month but I guess I'll buy a hard drive instead.
All SSDs I know of are recognized by the WEI. This is what I have, but that's out of stock now. Besides, newer models are available and they've gone down significantly in price.

I actually just bought another SSD for my mom's computer, going to install it for her tomorrow. This is the model. Down to $110~ after the rebate for a 96 GB SSD, I can tell you more about it tomorrow when I get it going if you're interested.



Edited, May 25th 2011 6:51pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
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#57 May 25 2011 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
Down to $110~ after the rebate for a 96 GB SSD, I can tell you more about it tomorrow when I get it going if you're interested.

Thanks. I'll end up picking one up for sure and I'm curious to know if it has any noticeable impact on the XIV benchmark score (to make sure I'm not going too far OoT).
#58 May 25 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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MrTalos wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Down to $110~ after the rebate for a 96 GB SSD, I can tell you more about it tomorrow when I get it going if you're interested.
Thanks. I'll end up picking one up for sure and I'm curious to know if it has any noticeable impact on the XIV benchmark score (to make sure I'm not going too far OoT).
Already done that. The difference in benchmark scores is nonexistent, the differences in scores that I saw weren't any more significant than regular fluctuations in just running the benchmark twice.

The only benefit is that the loading time goes down.



Edited, May 25th 2011 9:41pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#59 May 25 2011 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Forced triple buffer and vsync in D3DOverride completely eliminated the stuttering for me. I turned it off and loaded the game just now to test it, and the stuttering was back. I'm running a 5770, and CCC's and RadeonPro's buffering/vsync had no visible effect for me. (i know vsync does nothing below 60 fps but i leave it on anyways). I'm just letting you all know what worked for me, don't want to get flamed.


EDIT:
Using a HDD btw

Edited, May 26th 2011 1:01am by mullesch85
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#60 May 27 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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MrTalos wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Down to $110~ after the rebate for a 96 GB SSD, I can tell you more about it tomorrow when I get it going if you're interested.
Thanks. I'll end up picking one up for sure and I'm curious to know if it has any noticeable impact on the XIV benchmark score (to make sure I'm not going too far OoT).
For sake of disclosure, got the Kingston SSD in yesterday. Install was as straightforward as I expected (I wanted to put on a clean install of win 7 so I didn't bother with the cloning software). Worked perfectly the entire time, and is as fast as I expected of it having used the x25-m for myself for a while now. Very happy with the results overall, sending out the $50 rebate today, too, which brings the price down to a lean ~$112 for a 96 GB SSD. For what it's worth, the instant rebate did just end and the mail-in rebate ends in a couple days, but sales come and go all the time on newegg.

It also came with a hard case and a usb cord (as well as a power cable and sata cord that I didn't use in the laptop), so I just put her old HDD into the case and let her use it as an external HDD if she ever needs extra room for pictures and videos. Good stuff.



General reminders:

  • This is for loading times only (the OS, all programs, whatever games you can fit...), don't expect an increase in framerate or decrease in stuttering
  • Do NOT run a hard drive defragmenter on any SSD






Edited, May 27th 2011 10:55am by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#61 May 27 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
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127 posts
You might get a decrease in stuttering, you might not. It does for me.

Just don't expect it, because apparently it doesn't happen for everyone.

Edited, May 27th 2011 12:26pm by Crevox
#62 May 27 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Crevox wrote:
You might get a decrease in stuttering, you might not. It does for me.

Just don't expect it, because apparently it doesn't happen for everyone.
That's why I already said:
bsphil wrote:
don't expect an increase in framerate or decrease in stuttering
in my last post, because you're the only one that seems to be getting rid of stuttering just with an SSD.



Edited, May 27th 2011 12:35pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#63 May 27 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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1,606 posts
bsphil wrote:
For sake of disclosure, got the Kingston SSD in yesterday. Install was as straightforward as I expected (I wanted to put on a clean install of win 7 so I didn't bother with the cloning software). Worked perfectly the entire time, and is as fast as I expected of it having used the x25-m for myself for a while now. Very happy with the results overall, sending out the $50 rebate today, too, which brings the price down to a lean ~$112 for a 96 GB SSD. For what it's worth, the instant rebate did just end and the mail-in rebate ends in a couple days, but sales come and go all the time on newegg.

It also came with a hard case and a usb cord (as well as a power cable and sata cord that I didn't use in the laptop), so I just put her old HDD into the case and let her use it as an external HDD if she ever needs extra room for pictures and videos. Good stuff.



General reminders:

  • This is for loading times only (the OS, all programs, whatever games you can fit...), don't expect an increase in framerate or decrease in stuttering
  • Do NOT run a hard drive defragmenter on any SSD

Thank you very much!
I was considering this 160GB SATA II drive but then I saw this 120GB SATA III drive for a little less. My current board doesn't support SATA III so I was thinking I could go ahead and get a new board and chip. I presently have an AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition 3.4GHz. What is your take on the linked drives or that board and chip? The chip seems to be a no brainer but there are such a huge selections of boards it's hard to choose.

The chip would improve possible performance for XIV correct?

Edited, May 27th 2011 1:37pm by MrTalos
#64 May 27 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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MrTalos wrote:
Thank you very much!
I was considering this 160GB SATA II drive but then I saw this 120GB SATA III drive for a little less. My current board doesn't support SATA III so I was thinking I could go ahead and get a new board and chip. I presently have an AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition 3.4GHz. What is your take on the linked drives or that board and chip? The chip seems to be a no brainer but there are such a huge selections of boards it's hard to choose.

The chip would improve possible performance for XIV correct?
Are you having issues running the game right now? What video card are you running? Sorry if I'm blanking and you had mentioned this earlier, just got back from my first bike ride of the spring and I'm exhausted after only an hour. @_@

Keep in mind that while the 120 GB drive is cheaper, you're only paying about $2 per GB on the 320 model and ~$2.33 per GB on the 510 model. The extra cost is in SATA III compatibility. I can't personally attest to the differences between SATA II and SATA III, sorry. Only ever had SATA II.

The i7-2600k is definitely the top of the pack in terms of balancing high end performance and price, but the X4 965 certainly isn't bad either. I wouldn't expect miracles in difference, especially in other games besides FFXIV that are better optimized and don't depend on the CPU as heavily. If you have lots of money to burn and really care about tweaking out FFXIV settings then all the more power to ya.

What exactly do you mean by the linked drives? I'm drawing a blank on that. I've never been disappointed with an ASUS mobo before. I know that prior to the Sandy Bridge recall, ASUS was having an abnormal amount of issues with their firmware on their new P67 boards (mind you, this was RIGHT after they released). Gigabyte was doing far better, so back then I would have said to go for Gigabyte instead. At this point though it looks like ASUS is doing just fine and they seem to have smoothed out the issues on their initial production run. This caught my eye as a solid alternative. Either way you go (even if you decide to go for MSi), you're buying from Taiwan. :P Basically every top tier mobo manufacturer is located there.

I will say though that Gigabyte does appear to have better customer service than ASUS. I haven't had to contact ASUS yet but generally speaking the reviews of RMA'd Gigabyte boards have a generally more positive tone towards customer service than with ASUS.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#65 May 27 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Good
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1,606 posts
bsphil wrote:
Are you having issues running the game right now? What video card are you running? Sorry if I'm blanking and you had mentioned this earlier, just got back from my first bike ride of the spring and I'm exhausted after only an hour. @_@

Not any real issues and you aren't blanking because I didn't mention it so the bike ride didn't take too much out of you. I've a GeForce GTX 480 (Fermi).

Quote:
The i7-2600k is definitely the top of the pack in terms of balancing high end performance and price, but the X4 965 certainly isn't bad either. I wouldn't expect miracles in difference, especially in other games besides FFXIV that are better optimized and don't depend on the CPU as heavily. If you have lots of money to burn and really care about tweaking out FFXIV settings then all the more power to ya.

Well.. Don't really care a whole lot about FFXIV right now as much as I figured others who happened upon this thread would likely be most interested in how such upgrades would impact it. I'm just interested in general video game performance for the most part.

Quote:
What exactly do you mean by the linked drives?

I meant the 2 drives that I provided hyperlinks to.

Would the single most beneficial upgrade in general be the SSD? Not specific to FFXIV but for games as a whole?
#66 May 27 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
in my last post, because you're the only one that seems to be getting rid of stuttering just with an SSD.


I'm just clarifying further that there is in fact a chance of it. You should learn to stop being so offensive.

Edited, May 27th 2011 2:38pm by Crevox
#67 May 27 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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6,898 posts
Crevox wrote:
Quote:
in my last post, because you're the only one that seems to be getting rid of stuttering just with an SSD.


I'm just clarifying further that there is in fact a chance of it. You should learn to stop being so offensive.

Edited, May 27th 2011 2:38pm by Crevox


The thing is though, I really don't think there is a chance of it. I think there is probably some other factor for you that stopped your stuttering. It just doesn't make any sense as to why playing from an SSD would, as has been mentioned by numerous people.
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#68 May 27 2011 at 1:53 PM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Crevox wrote:
Quote:
in my last post, because you're the only one that seems to be getting rid of stuttering just with an SSD.


I'm just clarifying further that there is in fact a chance of it. You should learn to stop being so offensive.

Edited, May 27th 2011 2:38pm by Crevox


The thing is though, I really don't think there is a chance of it. I think there is probably some other factor for you that stopped your stuttering. It just doesn't make any sense as to why playing from an SSD would, as has been mentioned by numerous people.


I've already explained the reason, and I can test it repeatedly by playing it from SSD or HDD. I have it on both; play it on HDD, it stutters, play it on SSD, it doesn't.

We may be talking about different things when we say "stutter." Who knows.
#69 May 27 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
MrTalos wrote:
Quote:
What exactly do you mean by the linked drives?

I meant the 2 drives that I provided hyperlinks to.

Would the single most beneficial upgrade in general be the SSD? Not specific to FFXIV but for games as a whole?
Oh, haha. /whoosh'd.

I guess you need to determine how much storage space you really want to make use of. You're always going to want a second data HDD just to hold pictures/music/videos/etc. I ended up going for the 160 (149 actually) GB SSD but in retrospect I could've done with less. I'm using 109 GB now and 38 of that is music because I didn't want to lose my music on my laptop if I didn't have my external plugged in. I'd be happy with the ~96-120 range, and would just be a bit more diligent about trimming out the programs I'm not using.

Again, I can't attest to SATA III, but I've been very happy with the SATA II connection in my laptop. About 35 seconds to cold boot windows including POST, and all my important programs like photoshop and flash CS5 start insanely quick, probably 2-3 sec for photoshop and 11 sec for flash (which if you haven't used before is a very low load time, lol). Plus, once the desktop is loaded, I'm essentially ready to go. Can start up firefox/chrome right away without waiting for all the background processes to finish loading into memory like on a HDD.

MrTalos wrote:
Well.. Don't really care a whole lot about FFXIV right now as much as I figured others who happened upon this thread would likely be most interested in how such upgrades would impact it. I'm just interested in general video game performance for the most part.
Ehhh, I'd say for gaming purposes outside of FFXIV, you're just not going to see that much of an impact. FFXIV is this odd special case of inefficiency that demands a lot of the CPU. There are other reasons to want to make the purchase, but at least for gaming I'd personally not bother. That's up to you though.



Fairly wishy-washy response, lol. It's really all down to how much you're comfortable spending. Wish I had firsthand experience with SATA III so I could say more about that and how it compares to SATA II.



Crevox wrote:
Quote:
in my last post, because you're the only one that seems to be getting rid of stuttering just with an SSD.
I'm just clarifying further that there is in fact a chance of it.
Generally speaking when one person makes a claim diametrically opposed to what everyone else is making and can't back it up with definitive proof, people will tend to not take that person seriously. If you can show that by merely changing from a 7200 RPM HDD to a SSD eliminates stuttering in towns while keeping all other system specs constant, then I'll take back everything I said. From my experiences, it did not. If more people were confirming your statements about SSDs eliminating stuttering, this would be a different story.

Crevox wrote:
You should learn to stop being so offensive.
Try not to be so defensive? If you think this is me being offensive, you need to lurk more. Stronger wills have attempted to change my posting style over the last 21k posts.




Edited, May 27th 2011 3:18pm by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
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#70 May 30 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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1,606 posts
bsphil wrote:
Again, I can't attest to SATA III, but I've been very happy with the SATA II connection in my laptop. About 35 seconds to cold boot windows including POST, and all my important programs like photoshop and flash CS5 start insanely quick, probably 2-3 sec for photoshop and 11 sec for flash (which if you haven't used before is a very low load time, lol). Plus, once the desktop is loaded, I'm essentially ready to go. Can start up firefox/chrome right away without waiting for all the background processes to finish loading into memory like on a HDD.

I'll give the SATA II drive a try. That way I don't have to upgrade MB and chip just yet. I have my veliciraptor for storage or running programs that don't really mater how fast they run.
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