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Botting concerns from an honest crafterFollow

#1 May 24 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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Hi all.

First I must say I'm reaching 35 Goldsmith soon, and I'm quite liking how crafting works in this game to control the quality (even if it can be quite luck based, like 50%?), though I must say grinding is still a chore. Improvement in those parts can make the crafting system much better. However...

I notice a lot of evidence of botting and even run into several people who must have botted themselves. Who would craft continuously for many, many hours on end and then just sit there for a few more days RL doing nothing? As someone who does it honestly to get to higher ranks, I feel cheated that some people, well, cheat to get to rank 50 in EVERY CRAFT. I won't talk about the impact this has on the economy as that's a different can of worms altogether.

I think I remember people thinking that SE is too reluctant to put the banhammer down on the botters because that may remove, what, 50% of the subscribers right now, and the decreased number will reflect badly on the company? What do you guys think?

I wasn't sure if I should put this in the complaint thread, but I guess I want some discussion over this. I have tried searching for a thread like this but the discussion on botting often hide in other threads rather than having a thread to itself, AFAIK.
#2 May 24 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Enfid wrote:
Hi all.

First I must say I'm reaching 35 Goldsmith soon, and I'm quite liking how crafting works in this game to control the quality (even if it can be quite luck based, like 50%?), though I must say grinding is still a chore. Improvement in those parts can make the crafting system much better. However...

I notice a lot of evidence of botting and even run into several people who must have botted themselves. Who would craft continuously for many, many hours on end and then just sit there for a few more days RL doing nothing? As someone who does it honestly to get to higher ranks, I feel cheated that some people, well, cheat to get to rank 50 in EVERY CRAFT. I won't talk about the impact this has on the economy as that's a different can of worms altogether.

I think I remember people thinking that SE is too reluctant to put the banhammer down on the botters because that may remove, what, 50% of the subscribers right now, and the decreased number will reflect badly on the company? What do you guys think?

I wasn't sure if I should put this in the complaint thread, but I guess I want some discussion over this. I have tried searching for a thread like this but the discussion on botting often hide in other threads rather than having a thread to itself, AFAIK.


You can't legislate human nature. Even if crafting was fun (it's not), people would still bot.
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#3 May 24 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
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Enfid wrote:
Hi all.

First I must say I'm reaching 35 Goldsmith soon, and I'm quite liking how crafting works in this game to control the quality (even if it can be quite luck based, like 50%?), though I must say grinding is still a chore. Improvement in those parts can make the crafting system much better. However...

I notice a lot of evidence of botting and even run into several people who must have botted themselves. Who would craft continuously for many, many hours on end and then just sit there for a few more days RL doing nothing? As someone who does it honestly to get to higher ranks, I feel cheated that some people, well, cheat to get to rank 50 in EVERY CRAFT. I won't talk about the impact this has on the economy as that's a different can of worms altogether.

I think I remember people thinking that SE is too reluctant to put the banhammer down on the botters because that may remove, what, 50% of the subscribers right now, and the decreased number will reflect badly on the company? What do you guys think?

I wasn't sure if I should put this in the complaint thread, but I guess I want some discussion over this. I have tried searching for a thread like this but the discussion on botting often hide in other threads rather than having a thread to itself, AFAIK.


Ive reported the same bots on lindblum over and over and they are still by the fish vendor still in R1 gear stil making shards 24/7 and now there are about 4 more to add to the ones I reported before. As a fellow honest crafter I can tell you SE doesnt give a **** about you and SE doesnt give a **** about me.
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#4 May 25 2011 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
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SE's inattentiveness to botting is the biggest detractor to this game. People say SE will ban people who bot when they start paid subscriptions again. But my question is will they ban the people who botted now to get every craft to 50? I doubt it.

It's probably going to be the reason I quit this game when it goes pay and known botters still are around and harvesting their ill gotten fruits.
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#5 May 25 2011 at 2:47 AM Rating: Good
One of the main reasons I stopped playing FFXIV was because everyone was botting and it was so platantly obvious as well.
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#6 May 25 2011 at 3:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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The grind is a bit daunting, I can only usually craft continuously for maybe 2 hours before I start to doze off (even in the middle of the afternoon). And I'm not even that high yet, only in my low 20's with my highest crafts. Hopefully both the botting issue and the crafting grind issue eventually gets addressed.

I do notice a lot of crafter's crafting in odd positions/locations for hours and hours on end. And it seems insane that some people have most, if not all, classes to 50 already. I only took about 2 months off, and have played consistently otherwise and I already feel I've fallen behind...and the games not even finished! (o.O)
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#7 May 25 2011 at 3:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kayako wrote:
SE's inattentiveness to botting is the biggest detractor to this game. People say SE will ban people who bot when they start paid subscriptions again.

I don't think it's smart to bank on that. I've known many botters in XI, and never did one get banned. I've come to know many botters in XIV, and nothing has changed. There is a decade of history with SE not caring about this.. To me it's just one of many reasons that will keep me from ever caring much about this game.
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#8 May 25 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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Perhaps I'll search for and start a thread in the official forums, and see if I get a response, no matter how vague it will be.
#9 May 25 2011 at 5:30 AM Rating: Good
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Please do. If nobody complains, SE will only ignore the problem.
(As they tend to ignore ALL problems until people fetch their torches and pitchforks).
#10 May 25 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I am interested to find out how people define the player they are reporting is a bot?

Let's have a wee look:

- The player is always online, in the same spot, making the same stuff.

Ok so are you then if you are always here with the player, therefore you too are a bot.

- The player never talks, and makes the same items again and again.

I never talk while crafting, im usually watching American Dad or something else, and I grind the same recipes for days to increase my stocks. Therefore we are both bots now :(

- The player has a mashed up name, this proves they are RMT

One of my best buddies in XI had a name mashed from the keyboard, and 2 of my characters in WoW are the same, this means I am botting.

While I don't like botters, hackers, compromisers, and whatever other "er" is currently being thrown about, you cannot confirm anything. SE can, not you, so stop thinking your investigations are 100% proof.
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#11 May 25 2011 at 6:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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No. There's rarely a 100% proof.
But when I run into the same bunch of zombies at the exactly same spot doing exactly the same crafting
in the morning, at noon and midnight, and even after I wake up the next morning, my common sense tells
me that either

a) they are seriously addicted to brainless repetition, and SE should do something about it or
b) they are afk watching ****. Or some military parade. Which is about the same.

In both cases, I want SE to take action. Or implement a much more interactive crafting routine
that makes botting harder in the first place. Something like a series of quick-time events.
Whenever you fail one, the craft automatically fails. And you are not able to craf for several
minutes. The equivalent of death sickness for crafters.
#12clarkeyboy, Posted: May 25 2011 at 6:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So you don't want people playing the game longer than you do?
#13 May 25 2011 at 6:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I won't talk about the impact this has on the economy as that's a different can of worms altogether.


Bummer, that's what I opened the thread for = D

Character wipes for PS3 release!!
<runs away>

Edit-
Not to suggest I think botting concerns aren't worth discussing. I think they suck too.

Edited, May 25th 2011 8:45am by TwistedOwl
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#14 May 25 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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clarkeyboy wrote:
I am interested to find out how people define the player they are reporting is a bot?

Let's have a wee look:

- The player is always online, in the same spot, making the same stuff.

Ok so are you then if you are always here with the player, therefore you too are a bot.

- The player never talks, and makes the same items again and again.

I never talk while crafting, im usually watching American Dad or something else, and I grind the same recipes for days to increase my stocks. Therefore we are both bots now :(

- The player has a mashed up name, this proves they are RMT

One of my best buddies in XI had a name mashed from the keyboard, and 2 of my characters in WoW are the same, this means I am botting.

While I don't like botters, hackers, compromisers, and whatever other "er" is currently being thrown about, you cannot confirm anything. SE can, not you, so stop thinking your investigations are 100% proof.



http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=9339442

Thats a bot. Feel free to look at his history. Jerry hit R20 alchemy on 3/05/11. Jerry is currently 21 alchemy. Jerry currently wears R1 cloths. Jerry is always around the fish NPC. Jerry is always making shards. Please please please stop with your justifications. There are bots and they are easy to see if you actually play the game. I can go get some other profiles for you later when i head to limsa if you like. They will look exactly the same. R1 cloths R21 alchemy NOTHING else.

Edited, May 25th 2011 10:47am by tpgsoldier
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#15 May 25 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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clarkeyboy wrote:
I am interested to find out how people define the player they are reporting is a bot?

Let's have a wee look:

- The player is always online, in the same spot, making the same stuff.

Ok so are you then if you are always here with the player, therefore you too are a bot.

- The player never talks, and makes the same items again and again.

I never talk while crafting, im usually watching American Dad or something else, and I grind the same recipes for days to increase my stocks. Therefore we are both bots now :(

- The player has a mashed up name, this proves they are RMT

One of my best buddies in XI had a name mashed from the keyboard, and 2 of my characters in WoW are the same, this means I am botting.

While I don't like botters, hackers, compromisers, and whatever other "er" is currently being thrown about, you cannot confirm anything. SE can, not you, so stop thinking your investigations are 100% proof.


Posts like this just **** me off. Is it ever possible to prove 100% that someone is a botter? No, not from our side. But using logic and common sense, it's pretty easy to spot people that MOST LIKELY are botting. When someone is ALWAYS in the same spot every time you log on or run by, doing the exact same thing, chances are pretty high they are a bot. When someone has almost every craft at rank 50, in a game where getting a SINGLE craft to rank 50 takes hundreds of hours of monotony and repetition, yeah, chances are they are a bot.

Posting tripe like this only serves to help those people who do bot, because by your standards, no one should be reporting anyone or trying to do anything about the botters because you can never be 100% sure. Take off your blinders and realize that these players ruin the game and game economy and need to be reported and dealt with.
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#16 May 25 2011 at 9:16 AM Rating: Default
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The problem is that crafting for a long duration is boring and not too rewarding.

What would you rather do: craft for two hours or go outside and have fun for two hours while your G15 keyboard crafts for you?
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#17 May 25 2011 at 9:18 AM Rating: Good
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Lukky wrote:
The problem is that crafting for a long duration is boring and not too rewarding.

What would you rather do: craft for two hours or go outside and have fun for two hours while your G15 keyboard crafts for you?


So your justification for botters is that crafting is boring? Seems like a pretty crappy attitude to me... I don't disagree that it's boring and needs to be changed, but that certainly doesn't make it ok to cheat.
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#18clarkeyboy, Posted: May 25 2011 at 9:19 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And that is exactly the point I made. You can be pretty positive someone is a bot, but it doesn't make them a bot, it just makes you pretty sure you are dealing with a bot. My issue with it is that alot of hardworking, dedicated players get slammed on these forums for being bots, when in fact they are just taking the hit and grinding through the pain.
#19 May 25 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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clarkeyboy wrote:
Reporting them is great, do it, it helps everyone, but slandering them isn't always a good idea. I myself have a practically naked alt that sits and makes cotton stuffing for me. I do this while im watching TV, he is always sitting in Ul'dah in the marketplace. Doesn't mean he is a bot. :(


First off, is your alt sitting there at all times of the day and night crafting, only stopping to unload materials? If not, then you aren't someone I'd be concerned with.

Second, where exactly did the OP slander anyone? He gave out 0 names and did nothing but ask some really great questions and make some solid points.

And finally, while yes there probably ARE a few people that have legitimally sat through the unbelievable grind of crafting to get multiple classes to 50, the vast majority did NOT do it that way. You know it. I know it. You can choose to ignore the problem all you want, that doesn't make it untrue.

Just fyi, it takes just under 2 million SP to go 1-50 on a craft. At an average rate of 15k/hr (which seems to be the norm), that is just under 140 hours of gameplay... not factoring in fatigue, material gathering, etc. There are people that have 8-9 crafts at 50. So we're talking over 1000 game hours they've put into crafting. The games only been live 8 months (and for the first 4, crafting was CONSIDERABLY slower). That means that every single day, someone has to log almost 5 hours of straight crafting, EVERY SINGLE DAY, to get there. And that is factoring everything on the low side.
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#20 May 25 2011 at 9:48 AM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
clarkeyboy wrote:
Reporting them is great, do it, it helps everyone, but slandering them isn't always a good idea. I myself have a practically naked alt that sits and makes cotton stuffing for me. I do this while im watching TV, he is always sitting in Ul'dah in the marketplace. Doesn't mean he is a bot. :(


First off, is your alt sitting there at all times of the day and night crafting, only stopping to unload materials? If not, then you aren't someone I'd be concerned with.

Second, where exactly did the OP slander anyone? He gave out 0 names and did nothing but ask some really great questions and make some solid points.

And finally, while yes there probably ARE a few people that have legitimally sat through the unbelievable grind of crafting to get multiple classes to 50, the vast majority did NOT do it that way. You know it. I know it. You can choose to ignore the problem all you want, that doesn't make it untrue.

Just fyi, it takes just under 2 million SP to go 1-50 on a craft. At an average rate of 15k/hr (which seems to be the norm), that is just under 140 hours of gameplay... not factoring in fatigue, material gathering, etc. There are people that have 8-9 crafts at 50. So we're talking over 1000 game hours they've put into crafting. The games only been live 8 months (and for the first 4, crafting was CONSIDERABLY slower). That means that every single day, someone has to log almost 5 hours of straight crafting, EVERY SINGLE DAY, to get there. And that is factoring everything on the low side.


Why are you so angry? Chill out a little man. No one is getting ragey back at you. Relax.
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#21 May 25 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Haha, wow. You obviously don't know me on the forums. That's just my posting style, it's nothing personal against you. (I like to argue) =P

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#22 May 25 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Default
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Fair enough, was starting to feel like I was being shouted at by an over boiled kettle.

Just my opinions on the matter though, I usually have quite controversial views on most things, having been through so many variants of customer service roles, I tend to be a very neutral thinker now, and seldom jump on the bandwagons.
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#23 May 25 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I suppose I should really swap from using caps for emphasis to using bold, but I'm a bit lazy and I'm just so used to doing it now.
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#24 May 25 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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tpgsoldier wrote:



http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=9339442

Thats a bot. Feel free to look at his history. Jerry hit R20 alchemy on 3/05/11. Jerry is currently 21 alchemy. Jerry currently wears R1 cloths. Jerry is always around the fish NPC. Jerry is always making shards. Please please please stop with your justifications. There are bots and they are easy to see if you actually play the game. I can go get some other profiles for you later when i head to limsa if you like. They will look exactly the same. R1 cloths R21 alchemy NOTHING else.

Edited, May 25th 2011 10:47am by tpgsoldier


You do realize that at rank 20-21 you still get a decent amount of sp from making shards right? my alc is level 31 and when I break shards im still getting SP. Don't you think if I had been making shards non stop since march I would have gained more than one rank? Come on now
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#25 May 25 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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xSanctusx wrote:
tpgsoldier wrote:



http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=9339442

Thats a bot. Feel free to look at his history. Jerry hit R20 alchemy on 3/05/11. Jerry is currently 21 alchemy. Jerry currently wears R1 cloths. Jerry is always around the fish NPC. Jerry is always making shards. Please please please stop with your justifications. There are bots and they are easy to see if you actually play the game. I can go get some other profiles for you later when i head to limsa if you like. They will look exactly the same. R1 cloths R21 alchemy NOTHING else.

Edited, May 25th 2011 10:47am by tpgsoldier


You do realize that at rank 20-21 you still get a decent amount of sp from making shards right? my alc is level 31 and when I break shards im still getting SP. Don't you think if I had been making shards non stop since march I would have gained more than one rank? Come on now


That kind isn't because they're not doing the fine sand + crystal recipe, but sitting in the aquarium store buying the cheapest fish & turning into shards. Lower rank recipes.

Edited, May 25th 2011 1:13pm by TwistedOwl
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#26 May 25 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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My biggest concern with these people is that they will not get banned. I say bot all you want if you get your comeuppance in the end. The dumb ones do it in the city's. The "smart ones" hide. Some hide in the city's. Most you can find and report. What would be nice is the "smart ones" getting banned too. Hopefully all the (real) reported ones will get banned. Does anyone think SE has or will have a way of telling who uses or has used a bot program? It'd be nice for them to come out and say they will get banned.

It's very easy to tell if someone is botting, you just need to know what your looking for. There's a good post on this forum somewhere with youtube links that spell it out. Here's one of the videos (I did not make or find this video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTlK_wyd8pc

Here are the big questions that matter. How do the Japanese feel about botting? Are they complaining about the botting in the official forums? Can we take all of our botting concerns and make a translated post in the Japanese official forum about botting?

The combat system doesn't bug me that much, but I'll be happy when we get auto-attack. I don't like the crafting system as is, so I don't craft for more than 15-20 minutes at a time. I like the main story line and want more, but can wait. Out of the flaws the game has, the one thing that bugs the crap out of me are these botters getting away with cheating. Mainly the botters who play the game as if they've accomplished something. The RMT's don't care when they get banned so they don't bug me as much. When the first special task force mass banning comes out I'll be a very happy camper.

The botting RMT are making a crap load of gil atm. Are people dumb enough to buy gil in this game? I'm mean honestly, gil is way to easy to make right now. What are these RMT doing with it all? Storing? It'd would be funny to see a RMT with 999,999,999 gil get banned and lose it all before good gil bought content comes out lol.
#27 May 25 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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xSanctusx wrote:
tpgsoldier wrote:



http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/character/status?cicuid=9339442

Thats a bot. Feel free to look at his history. Jerry hit R20 alchemy on 3/05/11. Jerry is currently 21 alchemy. Jerry currently wears R1 cloths. Jerry is always around the fish NPC. Jerry is always making shards. Please please please stop with your justifications. There are bots and they are easy to see if you actually play the game. I can go get some other profiles for you later when i head to limsa if you like. They will look exactly the same. R1 cloths R21 alchemy NOTHING else.

Edited, May 25th 2011 10:47am by tpgsoldier


You do realize that at rank 20-21 you still get a decent amount of sp from making shards right? my alc is level 31 and when I break shards im still getting SP. Don't you think if I had been making shards non stop since march I would have gained more than one rank? Come on now


You really dont know how it works do you?
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#28 May 25 2011 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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I continued a post about botting in the official forums. Eventually, I think I'll have to demand a response from a "Red post" about this issue.

I think the hardest part about all this is that a craft bot is quite difficult to spot. As some posters have said, there exists excuses of why they are:
- Unresponsive - They were watching a movie
- Spamming standard - They're high enough to guarantee majority successful synth and still gain decent SP
- Staying in one place while not synthing anything (as some had ran out of materials) - They were chatting with their LS or left the game on and had to go do something else (grocery, eating, etc.)

Unlike field bots they don't run to predesignated spots in a weird robotic pattern. I think, in a way, the process of synthesis and crafting is too "robotic" that a bot can mimic the process and a person is hard pressed to tell a dedicated crafter and a bot apart.

I did play FFXI, starting from Chains of Promathia expansion, and my gawd the economy in that game was horrendous. I can't remember a time when I had more than 20,000 gil, and no matter what I did (crafting, crystal farming, etc) I can't seem to make more money. I wonder if that's due to the RMT and botting problem back in FFXI too, and I really, REALLY hope FFXIV doesn't go down that road too.
#29 May 25 2011 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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blueazaka wrote:
It's very easy to tell if someone is botting, you just need to know what your looking for. There's a good post on this forum somewhere with youtube links that spell it out. Here's one of the videos (I did not make or find this video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTlK_wyd8pc

Bots exist, this is true. But that video does not identify any bots. The video's claim is "if the crafter doesn't tell you off when you behave like a jackass, then the crafter is a bot." Maybe it's the American way to call out people on the internet when they are obnoxious, but not everyone is a super-cool American. Some people have the restraint to blacklist others and carry on.

That said, the crafter in the video is probably a bot. I base this accusation on the plain observation that the crafter is, indeed, crafting.
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#30 May 25 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:
blueazaka wrote:
It's very easy to tell if someone is botting, you just need to know what your looking for. There's a good post on this forum somewhere with youtube links that spell it out. Here's one of the videos (I did not make or find this video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTlK_wyd8pc

Bots exist, this is true. But that video does not identify any bots. The video's claim is "if the crafter doesn't tell you off when you behave like a jackass, then the crafter is a bot." Maybe it's the American way to call out people on the internet when they are obnoxious, but not everyone is a super-cool American. Some people have the restraint to blacklist others and carry on.

That said, the crafter in the video is probably a bot. I base this accusation on the plain observation that the crafter is, indeed, crafting.


That video was funny. I actually had to check it to make sure it wasn't me on there. I was thinking of a time I was crafting at Horizon in between behests and some douche decided to mess with me like that as I was crafting. I didn't say anything either, though I did have some nasty stuff typed up ready to hit enter if it continued.

So yea, the unresponsive thing isn't always a tell even if you're purposely trying to mess with 'em. Luckily a lot of the time I have a really long fuse....but at the end of the day it is attached to a big ******* bomb.(Slightly altered Dennis Miller quote)
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#31 May 25 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Good
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I look at it this way... humans have to eat, sleep, and ****. If it appears that a player is not stopping to eat, sleep, or ****, chances are they aren't a human. There are ways to tell. The likelyhood of it still being a human is quite small.
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#32 May 25 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
I look at it this way... humans have to eat, sleep, and ****. If it appears that a player is not stopping to eat, sleep, or ****, chances are they aren't a human. There are ways to tell. The likelyhood of it still being a human is quite small.


Don't you forget the mighty poopsock my friend
#33 May 25 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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reptiletim wrote:
I look at it this way... humans have to eat, sleep, and ****. If it appears that a player is not stopping to eat, sleep, or ****, chances are they aren't a human. There are ways to tell. The likelyhood of it still being a human is quite small.
I'm gonna have to be subtle when I mention you forgot something quite important.
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#34 May 25 2011 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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reptiletim wrote:
I look at it this way... humans have to eat, sleep, and ****. If it appears that a player is not stopping to eat, sleep, or ****, chances are they aren't a human.


I dunno... somebody can reasonably still make the 18th hour of craft-grind while doing two of those three things from the chair in front of the computer...
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#35 May 26 2011 at 12:23 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
reptiletim wrote:
I look at it this way... humans have to eat, sleep, and ****. If it appears that a player is not stopping to eat, sleep, or ****, chances are they aren't a human.


I dunno... somebody can reasonably still make the 18th hour of craft-grind while doing two of those three things from the chair in front of the computer...


I did when raising BS... crafting in one window, watched all seasons of House in another window. (I'm not a huge fan of House, just that it has a nice rhythm to it to keep going with crafting.)
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#36 May 26 2011 at 12:58 AM Rating: Default
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If you are at the computer for the "18 hours" you claim the "bot" to be, then how do you know they aren't going to the toilet, having relations and pooping at the same time as you.

Again, you can guess, and you can come up with some pretty certain conclusions.

Don't make you right though.
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#37 May 26 2011 at 2:34 AM Rating: Good
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Clarkey, that's not the point.
If botting is possible, and people are convinced many do it, then there's already a problem.
Whether a single individual is a botter or not is actually secondary.

And when 95% of circumstantial evidence cries "GUILTY!" with an estimated
likelyhood of a false accusal of 5%... then I'd say: burn the witch.
Rather anger one legitimate player than frustrate a hundred others who
cannot compete because they play fair.
#38 May 26 2011 at 2:55 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui wrote:
Clarkey, that's not the point.
If botting is possible, and people are convinced many do it, then there's already a problem.
Whether a single individual is a botter or not is actually secondary.

And when 95% of circumstantial evidence cries "GUILTY!" with an estimated
likelyhood of a false accusal of 5%... then I'd say: burn the witch.
Rather anger one legitimate player than frustrate a hundred others who
cannot compete because they play fair.


Yeah I know what you mean. When someone who steals someones purse runs into a crowd, might as well just burn the lot to be safe, right?
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#39 May 26 2011 at 3:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:

And when 95% of circumstantial evidence cries "GUILTY!" with an estimated
likelyhood of a false accusal of 5%... then I'd say: burn the witch.
Rather anger one legitimate player than frustrate a hundred others who
cannot compete because they play fair.


No.
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#40 May 26 2011 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd really love to hear the other end of the stories.

All the "So i was crafting, and all of a sudden some guy comes over in his underwear and starts dancing in my face calling me a bot. God, he was so anoying, i figured i'd just blacklist and ignore him".

The thing is, sure, if you accuse everyone of being a bot, you're bound to get it right a couple of times. But it's really tiresome to craft and get 20-30 tells per hour from diffirent people all going "hey, you've been crafting there for an hour now, are you botting?".

I usually just pack up and go do something else, but i could totally understand if people would simply stop responding to tells or anything of that sort.
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#41 May 26 2011 at 3:17 AM Rating: Default
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Heh, 2 of the people who have posted in this thread have approached my character in the past week to ask me if I am botting. I ignore them of course, makes for some entertaining results. :)
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#42 May 26 2011 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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clarkeyboy wrote:
Heh, 2 of the people who have posted in this thread have approached my character in the past week to ask me if I am botting. I ignore them of course, makes for some entertaining results. :)


In my point of view this can easilly be avoided, just send a short answer or even a /s :) will usually let them know you're there.

If thwe police is looking into you for a crime you don't just refuse to offer an alibi because you know your inocent... that would be something like cutting odd your nose to spite your face lol
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#43 May 26 2011 at 3:43 AM Rating: Default
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Hugus wrote:
clarkeyboy wrote:
Heh, 2 of the people who have posted in this thread have approached my character in the past week to ask me if I am botting. I ignore them of course, makes for some entertaining results. :)


In my point of view this can easilly be avoided, just send a short answer or even a /s :) will usually let them know you're there.

If thwe police is looking into you for a crime you don't just refuse to offer an alibi because you know your inocent... that would be something like cutting odd your nose to spite your face lol


It is equally amusing though to watch them flap about like a headless chicken when you start pretending. Put on a little show for them and all ;)
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#44 May 26 2011 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
clarkeyboy wrote:
Heh, 2 of the people who have posted in this thread have approached my character in the past week to ask me if I am botting. I ignore them of course, makes for some entertaining results. :)


In my point of view this can easilly be avoided, just send a short answer or even a /s :) will usually let them know you're there.

If the police is looking into you for a crime you don't just refuse to offer an alibi because you know your inocent... that would be something like cutting odd your nose to spite your face lol

While technically true, in the same theme, you shouldnt have to defend yourself by giving an alibi to begin with. The police shouldnt be after you in the first place. They should either have done their research, or have accusations based on facts.

Right now the game has degenerated into "If you're crafting somewhere, obviously you're botting". It's not so much the point that you have to constantly defend yourself, which is a problem as well i agree, but it's that people seem to get great satisfaction into walking up to completely reasonable regular players and shouting in town that they're botting, at first glance, because they dont feel like answering yet another meaningless accusation.

Couple more weeks of this and i might actually resort to botting. Doesnt seem to make a diffirence anyhow. You get called a botter even if you reply, since "Durr, it must be one of them smart bots". Might as well be doing something else entirely then. The Twelve know i need the gil...

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#45 May 26 2011 at 4:16 AM Rating: Default
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Hugus wrote:
clarkeyboy wrote:
Heh, 2 of the people who have posted in this thread have approached my character in the past week to ask me if I am botting. I ignore them of course, makes for some entertaining results. :)


In my point of view this can easilly be avoided, just send a short answer or even a /s :) will usually let them know you're there.

If the police is looking into you for a crime you don't just refuse to offer an alibi because you know your inocent... that would be something like cutting odd your nose to spite your face lol

While technically true, in the same theme, you shouldnt have to defend yourself by giving an alibi to begin with. The police shouldnt be after you in the first place. They should either have done their research, or have accusations based on facts.

Right now the game has degenerated into "If you're crafting somewhere, obviously you're botting". It's not so much the point that you have to constantly defend yourself, which is a problem as well i agree, but it's that people seem to get great satisfaction into walking up to completely reasonable regular players and shouting in town that they're botting, at first glance, because they dont feel like answering yet another meaningless accusation.

Couple more weeks of this and i might actually resort to botting. Doesnt seem to make a diffirence anyhow. You get called a botter even if you reply, since "Durr, it must be one of them smart bots". Might as well be doing something else entirely then. The Twelve know i need the gil...



Glad to see we are starting to get to the point :) - No matter what you do, some little scrote will always assume they know what you are up to, and blatt it about over all channels. These little stains are worse than the bots themselves.

Imho, shut your mouth, and keep your nose out of other peoples business. Report it to the STF if you suspect it, stop making it everyone elses problem you little drama queens.
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#46 May 26 2011 at 4:22 AM Rating: Good
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As you can see form my sig I actually do dedicate a lot of my time to crafting (in comparison to DoW/Ms) and I think that since CE release I might have been aproached twice by people looking to see if I was a bot or not.

Maybe it's a server thing or maybe people just get to be know for looking weird while crafting. Maybe because I actually pay atention to whats going on while crafting, not watching a movie or TV I don't present the usual signals.
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#47 May 26 2011 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Yeah I know what you mean. When someone who steals someones purse runs into a crowd, might as well just burn the lot to be safe, right?


I expected such a simplistic reply the moment I hit enter on my previous post.
My reply: If every single member of that crowd turns and runs away the moment
I shout "catch the thief!": Most definitely.
#48clarkeyboy, Posted: May 26 2011 at 6:00 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And here we are.
#49 May 26 2011 at 6:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Fear not, for SE have heard your cries for help and have come up with countermeasures!
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#50 May 26 2011 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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SE will deal with true bots at one point im sure, but remember its their job, not yours.

our duty is to report , and i think ppl should always report if they honestly feel botting is happening.

on the other hand be very careful who you are accusung of botting ..some (not all)...but some ppl are bot crazy and think everyone is a botter OO

definition: A bot (short for "robot") is a program that operates as an agent for a user or another program or simulates a human activity. On the Internet, the most ubiquitous bots are the programs, also called spiders or crawlers, that access Web sites and gather their content for search

remember many many ppl will not talk to you..they dont have to!! its not 100% sign of anything. unless someone asks me something in english..i wont be answering. if i saw someone racing around me at 100 mph , through me trying to be an *** well or waiting for that almighty reply as proof, then they will be disappointed because...i would quietly put them on bl and think "eeeeek some ppl need to get out more!"

many many ppl do indeed spend hours and hours of their day crafting....crafting in ff14 IS hideously time consuming, i can only stomach it for a couple hrs but there are tons of ppl (LEGIT + non legit sadly) that can stay online for 12+ hrs doing this. errrr its their life, their free time, they can be in a game if they choose to be.

spamming standrd= botter? Oo lolol k ....personally i use standard 99% of the time, getting 1 craft to 50, i realize no matter what you choose chances of success are 50/50...even with using added earned abilites, very good gear , so yup i use standard alot as im sure many do. if ppl are basing someone on that...i find THAT disturbing and totally blind.

and when ppl craft if they make a different piece of gear every second synth then i feel sorry for them, that has to be the MOST inefficient way to craft in this game...or any for that matter, ppl WILL be making the same cloth/gear/whatever over and over ..im sure most are choosing the cheapest way to level, that WILL mean grind fest of the same item. its terribley boring, but efficient and necessary.

leaving a character logged in for extended time (day+)...well i dont do this, but it sure is nice again to have a game (unlike wow) that allows me to stop...go make supper...and still be logged in when i get back :o) i can see why some would not leave. if ppl choose to stay logged in, the game allows for it or we wouldnt be able to do so ..it means nothing.

dont get me wrong i support getting rid of true botters!!! but ppl gotta stop the knee jerk reactions to very mild proof they apparently have. report, its up to SE to do the rest.
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#51 May 26 2011 at 6:50 AM Rating: Good
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clarkeyboy wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Clarkey, that's not the point.
If botting is possible, and people are convinced many do it, then there's already a problem.
Whether a single individual is a botter or not is actually secondary.

And when 95% of circumstantial evidence cries "GUILTY!" with an estimated
likelyhood of a false accusal of 5%... then I'd say: burn the witch.
Rather anger one legitimate player than frustrate a hundred others who
cannot compete because they play fair.


Yeah I know what you mean. When someone who steals someones purse runs into a crowd, might as well just burn the lot to be safe, right?


That is some pretty awful reading comprehension skill you've got there.

edit: Just so we're clear, I certainly do not condone someone taking it upon themselves to question everyone who is crafting to make sure they are not a bot. I mean, it's not like we're the Spanish Inquisition... cuz NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! (sorry, I just had to). But if you think someone is acting suspiciously (i.e, crafting 24/7 in the same spot at all hours of the day every time you log on for weeks), chances are your suspicions are justified and by all means they should be reported. SE can tell VERY easily if someone is truly botting, so all you need to do is give them leads to follow up on.

That doesn't mean reporting everyone you see crafting for an hour in the same spot. Whenever I used to do a crafting session, I'd often go 1-2 hours at a time, rarely looking at my screen and just spamming standard while I watched Avatar:The Last Airbender (the cartoon, not the crappy M. Night Shamalamadingdong movie) on Netflix.

Edited, May 26th 2011 8:57am by BartelX
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