Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

SE announces new MMO in the worksFollow

#102 May 26 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
b0ats wrote:
I didn't like this idea at first but once this mystery MMO is complete it'd be neat seeing it and ffxiv compete for a bigger player base.


Just curious, why is that neat? Seems like that is the exact opposite of a good thing. If fans of Square end up being split between both games, it just hurts the profit margin of BOTH. Sure there will be some people who pay for both, but I'd wager the vast majority wouldn't.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#103 May 26 2011 at 10:46 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
27 posts
BartelX wrote:
b0ats wrote:
I didn't like this idea at first but once this mystery MMO is complete it'd be neat seeing it and ffxiv compete for a bigger player base.


Just curious, why is that neat? Seems like that is the exact opposite of a good thing. If fans of Square end up being split between both games, it just hurts the profit margin of BOTH. Sure there will be some people who pay for both, but I'd wager the vast majority wouldn't.


Thats a good point. I was just getting my hopes high for them to be somewhat equal in player base and maybe once both games are complete can bring along some new fans. As for the dev teams competing what i mean was content wise. Not saying SE isnt working hard on that already. :D
____________________________


FFXI-Asura, Character- Boatsingtao
#104 May 26 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,177 posts
I wouldn't be surprised if they do a 2-for-one deal, or even a three-for-one deal like they were going to do with FFXI and FFXIV before the latter was suspended in terms of subscription fees.

It's not the subscription fees I'm worried about (especially if they implement such deals), but it's the time commitment. I don't have the time-investment for three MMOs. Especially when one's being overhauled (FFXIV), one seems like it's only being continually rehashed with the same zones with different colors to hold players over (FFXI), and then with this new project that implies to its players that they're moving on and saving face to try again.

I just hope Hiromichi Tanaka doesn't have any involvement with this one, and they put him to work on some new single player Chrono games. :)
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#105 May 26 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Good
***
2,010 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
Well for one i think that "to be announced some time this fiscal year" signifies that it's a plan for the future, i don't think they will be releasing it any time with in next 3-4 years. As well i see no real reason why this should be a bad thing, if they can balance it out. This new project can give them ideas to make 14 better.


If FFXI didn't give them ideas to make XIV better what makes you think they will learn from making a new mmo? I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic there. FFXI has been in my life for almost a decade, and I was looking forward to the same magic holding my attention for another decade with XIV. Now they want to talk about another mmo, which will practically doom their current flagship to ruin.

Any MMO they release after XIV will be compared directly to it, so they had better really hit one out of the park to have any hope of success. What's sad is that, they needed to really hit one out of the park with XIV to overcome the past stigma of XI and didn't. In a lot of cases they just exacerbated the original complaints about XI. Now they are stretched between two massive games, neither one of which is really seeing an expanding base of new players.

Overall it's leaving a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of loyal fans. Whether we are loyal to the old MMO or the new one, I think we can all agree that the games we already dedicated ourselves and our time to should be their top priority. Announcements like this don't reflect that dedication from the developer.
#106 May 26 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
**
557 posts
Not surprised. My guess is they aborted the development of FFXIV last year when they realized an old gen MMO just wasn't gonna cut it in the ultra-competitive MMO arena. They released a half-baked product for urgently needed revenue streams, however small, but I figured they would take that expensive and complex Crystal Tools set and build a better MMO that speaks to a bigger audience than FFXI addicts. That's where the original FFXIV team is now. We got the clean-up team.
____________________________


#107 May 26 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
31 posts
Hmmmm Wow this makes me feel pretty dissapointed for I refuse to play more then 1 MMO since there are really things I should be doing in real life to level my own self up vs even having the time to play one MMO at all.

This information comes out and there is not even anyone on the SE side that asks the main question we all have, Sooo what's going to happen to XIV during this process and why are you dividing your energy to make another MMO when you could not put enough energy in the first place to the Lacking brand name Next Gen FF MMO.

Now I got to worry about another FF title coming out that will be better then the next gen FF i thought I was playing. I was planning to play xiv for at least 6 years as i did xi and now im aggravated with the time I spent calling myself a Real Final Fantasy fan and sticking to this busted launch since November.

I'm going to stick it out tho till November re assess with further info coming out by then if there going to really do this to us and just lead us on i'm done Final fantasying forever and go finish that comp science degree i been yearning to finish.
____________________________
Taru: BLM 75

Mithra: RNG 75

#108 May 26 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Excellent
**
621 posts
OGPSWAN wrote:
Hmmmm Wow this makes me feel pretty dissapointed for I refuse to play more then 1 MMO since there are really things I should be doing in real life to level my own self up vs even having the time to play one MMO at all.

This information comes out and there is not even anyone on the SE side that asks the main question we all have, Sooo what's going to happen to XIV during this process and why are you dividing your energy to make another MMO when you could not put enough energy in the first place to the Lacking brand name Next Gen FF MMO.

Now I got to worry about another FF title coming out that will be better then the next gen FF i thought I was playing. I was planning to play xiv for at least 6 years as i did xi and now im aggravated with the time I spent calling myself a Real Final Fantasy fan and sticking to this busted launch since November.

I'm going to stick it out tho till November re assess with further info coming out by then if there going to really do this to us and just lead us on i'm done Final fantasying forever and go finish that comp science degree i been yearning to finish.


I think you should go and finish that the degree. FFXIV is just a game.
____________________________
Kweh?!

...prophesizing the golden patch since october 2010.
#109 May 26 2011 at 12:50 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
**
569 posts
Torrence wrote:

If FFXI didn't give them ideas to make XIV better what makes you think they will learn from making a new mmo? I'm sorry, but I just don't see the logic there. FFXI has been in my life for almost a decade, and I was looking forward to the same magic holding my attention for another decade with XIV. Now they want to talk about another mmo, which will practically doom their current flagship to ruin.

Any MMO they release after XIV will be compared directly to it, so they had better really hit one out of the park to have any hope of success. What's sad is that, they needed to really hit one out of the park with XIV to overcome the past stigma of XI and didn't. In a lot of cases they just exacerbated the original complaints about XI. Now they are stretched between two massive games, neither one of which is really seeing an expanding base of new players.

Overall it's leaving a bad taste in the mouth of a lot of loyal fans. Whether we are loyal to the old MMO or the new one, I think we can all agree that the games we already dedicated ourselves and our time to should be their top priority. Announcements like this don't reflect that dedication from the developer.


That's the thing tho, every one expected 14 to be on par with 11, and no surprise it was not. Give 14 1-2 years and am sure it will surpass 11 buy long shot. Same with the TBA MMO it will start off just like any other and seem like trash at the beginning. Comparing a 12 year old game with one barely a year has less logic.
____________________________
99th paper cut, and the grain of salt.
#110 May 26 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
235 posts
I don't like the idea of that many MMMos going at once. Shouldn't they be focusing on the one that needs all the attention, FFXIV? Do they want to split their fan base up or something with having multiple MMMos out?

We all suppose to waste time playing FFXIV when they are just going to release a few more MMOs that will more then likely be better?

Edited, May 26th 2011 3:27pm by Scape13
____________________________


#111 May 26 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Good
*
101 posts
Most of the current player base in 14 is waiting for the game to get better or waiting for the next MMO to come out. Unless they preform miracles on 14. And the new MMO doesn't look good at all. The new MMO wont just take some of the player base it'll decimate it.

Then again who will ever trust SE to make a good MMO ever again? Over 8 years of experience on FFXI didn't stop them from ignoring beta players and releasing a train-wreck. History has a tendency to repeat.

Edited, May 26th 2011 3:37pm by Kayako
____________________________
booh
#112 May 26 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
Avatar
*
235 posts
Kayako wrote:
Most of the current player base in 14 is waiting for the game to get better or waiting for the next MMO to come out. Unless they preform miracles on 14. And the new MMO doesn't look good at all. The new MMO wont just take some of the player base it'll decimate it.

Then again who will ever trust SE to make a good MMO ever again? Over 8 years of experience on FFXI didn't stop them from ignoring beta players and releasing a train-wreck. History has a tendency to repeat.

Edited, May 26th 2011 3:37pm by Kayako



IDK, who really would waste this much time on an MMO if they are just waiting for the next MMO? Maybe some people do that but it sounds weird to me. Personally, I wouldn't want to dump all this time into a character that I am planning on dropping.
____________________________


#113 May 26 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
**
557 posts
Kayako wrote:
Most of the current player base in 14 is waiting for the game to get better or waiting for the next MMO to come out. Unless they preform miracles on 14. And the new MMO doesn't look good at all. The new MMO wont just take some of the player base it'll decimate it.

Then again who will ever trust SE to make a good MMO ever again? Over 8 years of experience on FFXI didn't stop them from ignoring beta players and releasing a train-wreck. History has a tendency to repeat.

Edited, May 26th 2011 3:37pm by Kayako

It's not hard. People really don't care that much about studios.

1. Get some great screenshots, generate buzz with exciting, "next-gen" features.
2. Have a VERY SUCCESSFUL OPEN BETA, like Rift.
3. Have a VERY SUCCESSFUL LAUNCH. No big server issues, no stupid payment issues.
4. Advertise. WoW didn't get to be #1 by keeping quiet. From the first time I checked out the WoW website after a friend told me about it, I was seeing WoW ads in every freaking newspaper website I visited. I had no idea what Blizzard was, I never really liked Warcraft or Starcraft or Diablo, but I heard WoW was fun so I checked it out--and it was easy, cuz I could try it for free.

SE's gonna have to put some groundwork into this, but their failure with FFXIV will absolutely not be a critical factor in the success or failure of their next title.
____________________________


#114 May 26 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
**
952 posts
SquareEnix: Hey guys play this new MMO we made! =D

Players: But, what about the MMO that you JUST put out?

SquareEnix: This one is new and shiny!


Nobody here is saying that Square should stop making new games and focus on XIV alone, but most people who pick up an MMO usually stick around for a couple of years. I specifically stopped playing XI because I believed I was done with that game and was looking for a new experience.

Sure the game didn't start out so well but I'm sticking around because I'm hoping they'll make something out of it that will keep me interested for years to come like XI did. When they announce a new MMO it's almost like they're saying ********** the old one play this one!" with no proof that they learned anything from the experience.

If it is a new Final Fantasy MMO I will be highly annoyed/disappointed.
#115 May 26 2011 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
2,045 posts
They must be trying to pull a WoW here, that's all I can think. Keep trying till they find a winning MMO formula that attracts a huge audience, sadly for them...wow is a freak and it's almost impossible to replicate.

No company would put out 3 MMO's like this, especially when one is on shakey ground and the new one will leech players from that. FFXIV is dead to most non SE fanbois, when they make a new MMO it will be dead to everyone unless it's totally different to both current MMO's.
____________________________
BANNED
#116 May 26 2011 at 4:28 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
***
1,246 posts
Why do people keep saying its ridiculous for Square Enix to have 3 MMO's running at once? Sony, NCSoft and Turbine all do.

As a developer people have pretty negative views on the company after XIII and XIV, and it goes to show how quickly you can ruin your reputation. Had these games not been released so close to each other, people probably would have felt compelled to be a litttle more forgiving. But SE aren't ALL bad, just look at other recent stuff like Dissidia and Dragon Quest.

Also, a couple of bad games doesn't magically erase the generally successful decade before that. With the add-ons and Abyssea stuff, FFXI probably generated a LOT of money for the little manpower used.

And lets not forget here SE is a developer AND a producer, they could have easily colaberated with someone else on this title, **** it could even be Blizzard, they have suprisingly close links with the company.
____________________________
Meowth!
#117 May 26 2011 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
***
2,202 posts
pixelpop wrote:
ok through out time ive heard alooooot of awesome things about the draon quest series, that VII was arguably one of the best and this that and the other.
so i went to look it up recently because i literally just never really came across the game, and its made for like.... straight up children! i mean it looks like the same person would enjoy hello kitties adventure. i didnt see gameplay, so, is it like a chrono trigger or something where everything looks bad but the game is amazingly awesome?


Are you sure it was DQ VII ? Because DQ VII was not at all targeting kids, i don't know if you meant by looks, because gameplay wise, it was the usual DQ game, but the storyline was awesome. Plus it was like 80hrs long.
____________________________
MUTED
#118 May 26 2011 at 7:05 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
***
1,431 posts
Given how odd Square Enix has acted, it could be Final Fantasy XV Online! The two MMOs would be FFXI and this; the only profitable MMOs they got...
____________________________
75 SCH SMN BLM BLU 75
#119 May 26 2011 at 7:23 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,041 posts
ditx wrote:
Why do people keep saying its ridiculous for Square Enix to have 3 MMO's running at once? Sony, NCSoft and Turbine all do.


It's Square Enix -- people turn on the auto pessimism when it comes to them yet they ignore that SE ran FFXI, FE and FMO together -- FEZ was sold off and FMO ended a few years after ToAu expansion went live.
#120 May 26 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Decent
****
6,898 posts
Jennestia wrote:
ditx wrote:
Why do people keep saying its ridiculous for Square Enix to have 3 MMO's running at once? Sony, NCSoft and Turbine all do.


It's Square Enix -- people turn on the auto pessimism when it comes to them yet they ignore that SE ran FFXI, FE and FMO together -- FEZ was sold off and FMO ended a few years after ToAu expansion went live.


Fantasy Earth Zero was sold off only a couple months after it's release. Front Mission Online lasted a whopping 2.5 years, which in terms of an MMO is, well, rather pathetic... much like your argument. Even including those games, both of which were MASSIVE flops, is completely insipid and pointless.

Edited, May 26th 2011 11:38pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#121 May 27 2011 at 3:19 AM Rating: Default
Avatar
***
2,045 posts
I wonder if they are only keeping XIV around as a way to test ideas for this new MMO on a free large scale beta testing audience.
____________________________
BANNED
#122 May 27 2011 at 3:46 AM Rating: Good
***
1,112 posts
ditx wrote:
Sony, NCSoft and Turbine all do.


And they're all ******

Just saying.
____________________________
To endanger the soul endangers all,
when the soul is endangered it must become a Warrior.
#123 May 27 2011 at 5:12 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
preludes wrote:
I wonder if they are only keeping XIV around as a way to test ideas for this new MMO on a free large scale beta testing audience.


Thinking that SE would keep a Final Fantasy title just as a test tube is not very realistic. This game might not be the success that SE expected but I don't think they will just brush it under the carpet like that.
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#124 May 27 2011 at 6:55 AM Rating: Default
*
101 posts
Thinking SE will hold on to a lost cause if it turns out to be is not very realistic.
____________________________
booh
#125 May 27 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
Guru
Avatar
**
362 posts
Quote:
I respect your opinion Osarion, but as a customer if you do me wrong, you better fix it first before even trying to sell me something again.

As stated, they can 'see the light' of XIV's repairs, meaning that by the time this new mmo is anywhere near ready for release (or probably even initial screenshots), XIV will be in a state where we're happily paying to play it, and arguing over what gear is best for what job instead of arguing over which features they need to fix first.

You learn more from a failure than a success, and while XI was a success for them at the time, if XI was introduced today the way it was released back then it would've been a massive failure too. So hopefully, while they didn't really have 'lessons' to learn from XI, they'll take XIV's launch and return to Squaresoft form, and release the game when it's ready. Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem. Hopefully a year of free-to-play supposedly AAA mmo service will teach them that lesson that they needed.


____________________________
Anakte Grey
BLM 50 SMN/SCH 50 WHM 40
MRD 26 DRG 30 MNK 30 GLA 25

http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/416469141_Vt5aq-XL-2.jpg
#126 May 27 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,898 posts
Anakte wrote:
As stated, they can 'see the light' of XIV's repairs, meaning that by the time this new mmo is anywhere near ready for release (or probably even initial screenshots), XIV will be in a state where we're happily paying to play it, and arguing over what gear is best for what job instead of arguing over which features they need to fix first.


Wishful thinking I'm afraid. There is absolutely no proof right now that XIV will EVER be in the state you mention. Certainly it could be, but you are making some pretty heavy assumptions.

Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem.


Um no, the development of XIV was **** poor. Why do you think they came in with an entirely new team, who has basically had to strip the game down to it's basics and rebuild it? It certainly isn't because they did a good job developing it initially. If you want proof of the poor development, just look at how system intensive FFXIV is and how it is almost impossible to get the game to run extremely smoothly without an absolute top end machine, yet other games that are similarly graphically intensive can do so on much lesser machines. Or heck, look at how pathetic the UI of the game was at launch. Or how about the whole Market Wards crashing constantly. There are a plethora of examples of the poor development and implementation in XIV.

Edited, May 27th 2011 3:45pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#127 May 27 2011 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem.

Actually I think it's both, and sadly those two factors multiply.
#128 May 27 2011 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem. Hopefully a year of free-to-play supposedly AAA mmo service will teach them that lesson that they needed.




I have to disagree. I don't think it was rushed, and I don't think more time would have made it better. Would an extra 2 years have made them realize that people wern't going to like market wards? More time doesn't make bad ideas into good ones, in another year of development would have given us 30 more levequests and 10 more names for marmots.
____________________________


#129 May 27 2011 at 4:00 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
and 10 more names for marmots.


And horsebirds *,^/
#130 May 27 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,313 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem. Hopefully a year of free-to-play supposedly AAA mmo service will teach them that lesson that they needed.




I have to disagree. I don't think it was rushed, and I don't think more time would have made it better. Would an extra 2 years have made them realize that people wern't going to like market wards? More time doesn't make bad ideas into good ones, in another year of development would have given us 30 more levequests and 10 more names for marmots.


Well said Blackpool, well said.
____________________________
Eithne Draocht
My IG: archaicmachinery - Friend me!
#131 May 27 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
351 posts
Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem. Hopefully a year of free-to-play supposedly AAA mmo service will teach them that lesson that they needed.


I'm quite sure the lesson has been learned, especially now that their comfortable profitability has been turned into rapidly descending red ink in the span of a year.

After FFXIV, though, I don't think I'm really all that excited for a new SE developed MMO. I can still taste the bitterness in my mouth.

BartelX wrote:
If you want proof of the poor development, just look at how system intensive FFXIV is and how it is almost impossible to get the game to run extremely smoothly without an absolute top end machine, yet other games that are similarly graphically intensive can do so on much lesser machines


It's actually worse than that. On high-end machines, the screen tearing and image stuttering really start to "shine," so even if you get past the low-end hurdle, you're still treated to a sucktacular experience.

Edited, May 27th 2011 6:24pm by ForceOfMeh
#132 May 27 2011 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
**
305 posts
Maybe since they spent all that time making the graphics engine for ffxiv they had really planned all along to use that engine on these other games as well?
____________________________


#133 May 27 2011 at 10:48 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
KacesofCaitsith wrote:
Maybe since they spent all that time making the graphics engine for ffxiv they had really planned all along to use that engine on these other games as well?


I think they planned on using crystal tools for most of their upcoming games. they've used it for 13, 14, and will be using it for 13-2. Its one of the reasons I'm skeptical about the games 5 year development cycle, I wonder how much of that time was really shared work on crystal tools.
____________________________


#134 May 28 2011 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
*****
12,703 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem. Hopefully a year of free-to-play supposedly AAA mmo service will teach them that lesson that they needed.




I have to disagree. I don't think it was rushed, and I don't think more time would have made it better. Would an extra 2 years have made them realize that people wern't going to like market wards? More time doesn't make bad ideas into good ones, in another year of development would have given us 30 more levequests and 10 more names for marmots.


Anyone could see that XIV was a rush job, even if you choose to ignore the obvious signs.

What would an extra year of dev time do for a video game? Obviously nothing which is why games are only in production for barely a year.....>.>;

KujaKoF wrote:
KacesofCaitsith wrote:
Maybe since they spent all that time making the graphics engine for ffxiv they had really planned all along to use that engine on these other games as well?


I think they planned on using crystal tools for most of their upcoming games. they've used it for 13, 14, and will be using it for 13-2. Its one of the reasons I'm skeptical about the games 5 year development cycle, I wonder how much of that time was really shared work on crystal tools.


It was already stated that the game didn't go into production till around 2008. (Physical production, and the lull in FFXI content and the 3 years it took them to finish WoTG expansion storyline proves this.)

Edited, May 28th 2011 12:14am by Theonehio

Edited, May 28th 2011 12:15am by Theonehio
____________________________

#135 May 28 2011 at 5:28 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
351 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
It was already stated that the game didn't go into production till around 2008. (Physical production, and the lull in FFXI content and the 3 years it took them to finish WoTG expansion storyline proves this.)


You're crazy if you think games are only being developed the moment the code monkeys start typing it up. The design phase for a game like FFXIV would have taken a substantial amount of time; it's quite believable it was a 5 year project. There are photos of proof-of-concepts for FFXIV going back to 2005 (shown at E3 2005 FFS), and Tanaka himself is on record for stating a new "next gen" MMO was in the works, back then.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6127156/final-fantasy-xi-team-working-on-new-next-gen-mmorpg?tag=result%3Btitle%3B3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Final_Fantasy_XIV_concept_render.jpg

There's your proof.
#136 May 28 2011 at 5:37 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
3,226 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
Anyone could see that XIV was a rush job, even if you choose to ignore the obvious signs.

What would an extra year of dev time do for a video game? Obviously nothing which is why games are only in production for barely a year.....>.>;

At least SE has the decency to re-release old games on different platforms with better graphics rather than spit out sequels every year!
____________________________
w(°o°)w
#137 May 28 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem. Hopefully a year of free-to-play supposedly AAA mmo service will teach them that lesson that they needed.




I have to disagree. I don't think it was rushed, and I don't think more time would have made it better. Would an extra 2 years have made them realize that people wern't going to like market wards? More time doesn't make bad ideas into good ones, in another year of development would have given us 30 more levequests and 10 more names for marmots.


Anyone could see that XIV was a rush job, even if you choose to ignore the obvious signs.

What would an extra year of dev time do for a video game? Obviously nothing which is why games are only in production for barely a year.....>.>;

KujaKoF wrote:
KacesofCaitsith wrote:
Maybe since they spent all that time making the graphics engine for ffxiv they had really planned all along to use that engine on these other games as well?


I think they planned on using crystal tools for most of their upcoming games. they've used it for 13, 14, and will be using it for 13-2. Its one of the reasons I'm skeptical about the games 5 year development cycle, I wonder how much of that time was really shared work on crystal tools.


It was already stated that the game didn't go into production till around 2008. (Physical production, and the lull in FFXI content and the 3 years it took them to finish WoTG expansion storyline proves this.)

Edited, May 28th 2011 12:14am by Theonehio

Edited, May 28th 2011 12:15am by Theonehio


I won't argue that FFXIV seems to have had much less time put into it than the 5 years spent since the project was announced. We did not have 5 years of quality game development. my theory is that most of that time was spent on crystal tools, or they simply used their time inefficiently. I highly doubt though that they announced a game in 2005 and didn't start working on it until 2008.

What I don't agree with, is this notion that the whole thing just needed more time in the oven. It wasn't 2 years in house away from being a great game, its based on concepts that most people don't like. We would have seen more of what we got. But we'd still have battle, market, and class systems that people didn't take to.
____________________________


#138 May 28 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
It was already stated that the game didn't go into production till around 2008. (Physical production, and the lull in FFXI content and the 3 years it took them to finish WoTG expansion storyline proves this.)


You're crazy if you think games are only being developed the moment the code monkeys start typing it up. The design phase for a game like FFXIV would have taken a substantial amount of time; it's quite believable it was a 5 year project. There are photos of proof-of-concepts for FFXIV going back to 2005 (shown at E3 2005 FFS), and Tanaka himself is on record for stating a new "next gen" MMO was in the works, back then.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6127156/final-fantasy-xi-team-working-on-new-next-gen-mmorpg?tag=result%3Btitle%3B3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Final_Fantasy_XIV_concept_render.jpg

There's your proof.


But it's easier to wrap my mind around three years of procrastination and two years of development than five years of... I don't even know what to call it... what were they doing for five years? Were they just isolating the most intrusive copy-paste algorithms? Were they busy not testing a battle system? Perhaps they had trouble locating the least efficient servers, or designing the slowest patch programs imaginable?

It just doesn't make sense how, after five years of development, they didn't even come up with enough content for an interesting two weeks of beta testing! (*_*;)

Edited, May 28th 2011 4:37pm by KaneKitty
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#139 May 28 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
22 posts
RidingBean wrote:


Also, I'm pretty sure they started development for this "new" MMO before FFXIV even got into alpha stage.


Meaning FFXIV ever got OUT of alpha?...Who knew

Also, A Legacy of Kain MMO might be awesome!
____________________________
"Scientists have discovered that saliva actually causes cancer, but only after digesting it in small portions over a long period of time" -G. Carlin-
#140 May 28 2011 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
***
2,535 posts
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
That's simple. The new MMO wont be linked to FF, and thus wont have the stigma that the FF MMO's have in people's eyes. As of now MMO's are bigger than retail in Japan. If they make a Dragon Quest MMO it'll sell like hot cakes in Japan. More than FFXIV could dream of.


That's simple only if you assume people here (Japan) are brainless zombies with a memory span of 3 seconds maximum. Do you think people here forgot about SE's last flagship MMORPG? Do you think SE has the manpower and resources to develop a full-fledged high quality Dragon Quest MMORPG? Or that they will be able to bribe the press yet again to delay their reviews indefinitely (or at least until the revenue from gullible pre-orderers covers the production cost)?

Edited, May 25th 2011 9:41am by Rinsui


Keep in mind however that Dragon Quest games are never developed in-house - Square-Enix (like Enix before them) owns the publishing rights, but the IP itself is owned by Yuji Horii's Armor Project and development is contracted out to third parties, namely Chunsoft (all DQs up to the SNES remake of 1&2, as well as the Mystery Dungeon spin-offs), the now-defunct Heartbeat (DQ6, DQ7, the SNES remake of DQ3, and the PS remake of DQ4), ArtePiazza (the DS remakes), Level-5 (DQ8 and DQ9), and TOSE (the Rocket Slime and Dragon Quest Monsters games).

In other words, the success or failure of a DQ MMO would have less to do with whether or not SE has the resources to develop it, than whether or not Yuji Horii can find a developer that has the skill-set to develop it properly with the financial backing of SE.
#141 May 28 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
2,153 posts
Quote:
Keep in mind however that Dragon Quest games are never developed in-house - Square-Enix (like Enix before them) owns the publishing rights, but the IP itself is owned by Yuji Horii's Armor Project and development is contracted out to third parties, namely Chunsoft (all DQs up to the SNES remake of 1&2, as well as the Mystery Dungeon spin-offs), the now-defunct Heartbeat (DQ6, DQ7, the SNES remake of DQ3, and the PS remake of DQ4), ArtePiazza (the DS remakes), Level-5 (DQ8 and DQ9), and TOSE (the Rocket Slime and Dragon Quest Monsters games).

In other words, the success or failure of a DQ MMO would have less to do with whether or not SE has the resources to develop it, than whether or not Yuji Horii can find a developer that has the skill-set to develop it properly with the financial backing of SE.


Oh wow! I have to admit I didn't know that. Thanks for the info! (I never was interested in DQ)
#142 May 28 2011 at 5:36 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
I actually hope they try and apply a new IP to their upcoming MMO. Good mechanics, and good game world are far more important than the franchise title.
____________________________


#143 May 28 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,842 posts
Most likely going to be Wakfu
http://www.wakfu.com/na/mmorpg
____________________________
FFXIV Dyvid (Awaiting 2.0)
FFXI Dyvid ~ Pandemonium (Retired)
SWTOR Dy'vid Legacy - Canderous Ordo
#144 May 28 2011 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
176 posts
dyvidd wrote:
Most likely going to be Wakfu
http://www.wakfu.com/na/mmorpg

I clicked that link and wait... their world is called DOFUS?
____________________________

TERA looks tasty...
#145 May 29 2011 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
dyvidd wrote:
Most likely going to be Wakfu
http://www.wakfu.com/na/mmorpg


Wakfu is already in beta testing. I highly doubt an MMO they are putting into development would be in beta stage... but then again, we do have FFXIV... so who knows!
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#146 May 29 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
551 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Mistress Theonehio wrote:
It was already stated that the game didn't go into production till around 2008. (Physical production, and the lull in FFXI content and the 3 years it took them to finish WoTG expansion storyline proves this.)


You're crazy if you think games are only being developed the moment the code monkeys start typing it up. The design phase for a game like FFXIV would have taken a substantial amount of time; it's quite believable it was a 5 year project. There are photos of proof-of-concepts for FFXIV going back to 2005 (shown at E3 2005 FFS), and Tanaka himself is on record for stating a new "next gen" MMO was in the works, back then.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6127156/final-fantasy-xi-team-working-on-new-next-gen-mmorpg?tag=result%3Btitle%3B3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Final_Fantasy_XIV_concept_render.jpg

There's your proof.


But it's easier to wrap my mind around three years of procrastination and two years of development than five years of... I don't even know what to call it... what were they doing for five years? Were they just isolating the most intrusive copy-paste algorithms? Were they busy not testing a battle system? Perhaps they had trouble locating the least efficient servers, or designing the slowest patch programs imaginable?

It just doesn't make sense how, after five years of development, they didn't even come up with enough content for an interesting two weeks of beta testing! (*_*;)

Edited, May 28th 2011 4:37pm by KaneKitty


Makes a lot of sense if you compare it to their "development" of FFXIII.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409841

They were simply showing things that didn't even exist, while saying that they did.
____________________________



#147 May 29 2011 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
BartelX wrote:
dyvidd wrote:
Most likely going to be Wakfu
http://www.wakfu.com/na/mmorpg


Wakfu is already in beta testing. I highly doubt an MMO they are putting into development would be in beta stage... but then again, we do have FFXIV... so who knows!


And Wakfu isn't SE's. Sure they publish it, but they have no development intervention there.
____________________________




#148 May 29 2011 at 10:21 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
551 posts
BastokFL wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
That's simple. The new MMO wont be linked to FF, and thus wont have the stigma that the FF MMO's have in people's eyes. As of now MMO's are bigger than retail in Japan. If they make a Dragon Quest MMO it'll sell like hot cakes in Japan. More than FFXIV could dream of.


That's simple only if you assume people here (Japan) are brainless zombies with a memory span of 3 seconds maximum. Do you think people here forgot about SE's last flagship MMORPG? Do you think SE has the manpower and resources to develop a full-fledged high quality Dragon Quest MMORPG? Or that they will be able to bribe the press yet again to delay their reviews indefinitely (or at least until the revenue from gullible pre-orderers covers the production cost)?

Edited, May 25th 2011 9:41am by Rinsui


Keep in mind however that Dragon Quest games are never developed in-house - Square-Enix (like Enix before them) owns the publishing rights, but the IP itself is owned by Yuji Horii's Armor Project and development is contracted out to third parties, namely Chunsoft (all DQs up to the SNES remake of 1&2, as well as the Mystery Dungeon spin-offs), the now-defunct Heartbeat (DQ6, DQ7, the SNES remake of DQ3, and the PS remake of DQ4), ArtePiazza (the DS remakes), Level-5 (DQ8 and DQ9), and TOSE (the Rocket Slime and Dragon Quest Monsters games).

In other words, the success or failure of a DQ MMO would have less to do with whether or not SE has the resources to develop it, than whether or not Yuji Horii can find a developer that has the skill-set to develop it properly with the financial backing of SE.


In my lowly opinion, Level 5 is the new Squaresoft. I love the games they make.
____________________________



#149 May 30 2011 at 12:21 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
Zorvan wrote:
Makes a lot of sense if you compare it to their "development" of FFXIII.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409841

They were simply showing things that didn't even exist, while saying that they did.


Oh, I guess SE does not have any managers, and they just stick a bunch of random people in a room and tell them to create "something Final-Fantasy-ish."

Two years later, when SE unlocks the door, they find out that a few people thought they were working a new JRPG; some were doing a remake of FFVII; one guy was just making endgame zones with crystal themes; a few dozen people had splintered off to develop their own dungeon-crawler; and nine others had died of natural causes.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#150 May 31 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
Guru
Avatar
**
362 posts
BartelX wrote:
Anakte wrote:
As stated, they can 'see the light' of XIV's repairs, meaning that by the time this new mmo is anywhere near ready for release (or probably even initial screenshots), XIV will be in a state where we're happily paying to play it, and arguing over what gear is best for what job instead of arguing over which features they need to fix first.


Wishful thinking I'm afraid. There is absolutely no proof right now that XIV will EVER be in the state you mention. Certainly it could be, but you are making some pretty heavy assumptions.

Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem.


Um no, the development of XIV was **** poor. Why do you think they came in with an entirely new team, who has basically had to strip the game down to it's basics and rebuild it? It certainly isn't because they did a good job developing it initially. If you want proof of the poor development, just look at how system intensive FFXIV is and how it is almost impossible to get the game to run extremely smoothly without an absolute top end machine, yet other games that are similarly graphically intensive can do so on much lesser machines. Or heck, look at how pathetic the UI of the game was at launch. Or how about the whole Market Wards crashing constantly. There are a plethora of examples of the poor development and implementation in XIV.

Edited, May 27th 2011 3:45pm by BartelX

I think we're having a disconnect between the 'programmers' and the 'producers' when we're each saying 'developers'. The programmers weren't replaced, the people in charge of them were. The implementation of a bad system compounded with a lack of time to get the game optimized is most certainly the fault of a corporate decision to release a shoddy unfinished product. It's like blaming the cook if the manager grabs the food before it's finished and drops it off at someone's table.
#151 May 31 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
****
6,898 posts
Anakte wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Anakte wrote:
As stated, they can 'see the light' of XIV's repairs, meaning that by the time this new mmo is anywhere near ready for release (or probably even initial screenshots), XIV will be in a state where we're happily paying to play it, and arguing over what gear is best for what job instead of arguing over which features they need to fix first.


Wishful thinking I'm afraid. There is absolutely no proof right now that XIV will EVER be in the state you mention. Certainly it could be, but you are making some pretty heavy assumptions.

Anakte wrote:
Let's look at XIV - the developers aren't bad, the game was rushed. That's not a development problem, that's a corporate problem.


Um no, the development of XIV was **** poor. Why do you think they came in with an entirely new team, who has basically had to strip the game down to it's basics and rebuild it? It certainly isn't because they did a good job developing it initially. If you want proof of the poor development, just look at how system intensive FFXIV is and how it is almost impossible to get the game to run extremely smoothly without an absolute top end machine, yet other games that are similarly graphically intensive can do so on much lesser machines. Or heck, look at how pathetic the UI of the game was at launch. Or how about the whole Market Wards crashing constantly. There are a plethora of examples of the poor development and implementation in XIV.

Edited, May 27th 2011 3:45pm by BartelX

I think we're having a disconnect between the 'programmers' and the 'producers' when we're each saying 'developers'. The programmers weren't replaced, the people in charge of them were. The implementation of a bad system compounded with a lack of time to get the game optimized is most certainly the fault of a corporate decision to release a shoddy unfinished product. It's like blaming the cook if the manager grabs the food before it's finished and drops it off at someone's table.


I think it's extremely naive to place the blame solely on "corporate decisions". Let's be honest, they could have had 2-3 more YEARS of time to develop FFXIV with the old team and it still would have been sub-par. Instead of doing the right things that Yoshi-P is doing (completely overhauling and redesigning the poorly implemented systems already in the game), they would have just continued down the path of "let's make everything completely different for the sake of being different". For your cook analogy, I'd say it's more like having a cook try and serve you a cheeseburger with a burger made of undercooked spaghetti and a half processed bun made of sugar. Trying new things doesn't always work, and simply giving people more time doesn't mean they will make the correct choices.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)