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Combat slugishness?Follow

#1 May 25 2011 at 7:43 AM Rating: Good
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Does anyone else have slow combat where you hit an action and then it doesn't seem to go off instantly? It seems like there is a lag in combat for me at least and wanted to see if other's experienced the same.

Same thing happens with leves/behest, it will "start" but the map doesn't update for a few seconds. I noticed this when a Japanese player ran off in the direction of the mobs a full 2-3 seconds before everyone else.
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#2 May 25 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Default
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The japanese player is in the same country as the servers. You are on the other side of the world of course you're going to have more lag.
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#3 May 25 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Good
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Alternative explanation: Experience.
Once you reach a point where you've done every behest, leve and quest a countless number of times,
you simply know where to run to. ^.^/
#4 May 25 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Good
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I was just annoyed with the sluggish combat running Levinshower @ Nophica with a lot of other groups around. It's annoying in general, but really bothers me on pugilist with a lot of the timed actions I'm doing. My light strike is delayed, I evade an attack during that process, and then haymaker II is delayed and when it tries to go "That command cannot be performed". That split second of lag is all it takes to mess it up. Very frustrating.

Also with behest mobs, your actual map updates before the mini-map. You can check your map once in a while right before behest and the spot will pop up before the music kicks in, the behest starts, and your mini-map shows the spot.

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#5 May 25 2011 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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Also if you open the map and time it right, you will see the place where the mobs are at highlighted about 5 sec before it actually starts the levequest.
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#6 May 25 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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I would have to agree that the slugishness has been a lot more the last few weeks.
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#7 May 25 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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As someone who lived in Japan for two years playing xbox with people stateside, I can say that there is always going to be lag, no matter what. The lag between hitting the button on the action bar and when the action actually goes off seems like it's excessive, however. Maybe it's because it's an MMO, but being that they are dedicated servers and not pc or xbox hosts, 2 or even 3 seconds in between hitting the action and seeing it on the screen is a bit ridiculous. It takes a lot away from the already dull combat.
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#8 May 25 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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From how the question is worded it sounds more like he's talking about the stamina. Each action requires a certain amount of stamina before it can be used. Some actions require more stamina then others. Off of the top of my head Second wind requires more stamina than heavy strike. So if your stamina bar is empty you would be able to use heavy strike before second wind. When you have the action highlighted it shows on the action bar how much stamina is needed. http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Sephrick%27s_Beginner%27s_Guide_-_Basics Check out the stamina section to see what it looks like.
Edited for grammar


Edited, May 25th 2011 2:10pm by blueazaka
#9 May 25 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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blueazaka wrote:
From how the question is worded it sounds more like he's talking about the stamina. Each action requires a certain amount of stamina before it can be used. Some actions require more stamina then others. Off of the top of my head Second wind requires more stamina than heavy strike. So if your stamina bar is empty you would be able to use heavy strike before second wind. When you have the action highlighted it shows on the action bar how much stamina is needed. http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/Sephrick%27s_Beginner%27s_Guide_-_Basics Check out the stamina section to see what it looks like.
Edited for grammar


Edited, May 25th 2011 2:10pm by blueazaka


No it's lag sorry for the weird wording.
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#10 May 25 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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Nobody really touched the point OP made about combat. It's been a peeve of mine since day one. It's not something you can really blame on lag, since all that would be going on client side, wouldn't it? Maybe the game operates differently than others, but I distinctly remember lagging out in both ffxi and wow and still able to execute actions that wouldn't have any affect on my target until things caught up server side. The main difference in 14 is that battle animations won't go off, usually you'll have to jam on the 1 or 2 key until your stamina gauge will go down.
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#11 May 25 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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TurboTom wrote:
Nobody really touched the point OP made about combat. It's been a peeve of mine since day one. It's not something you can really blame on lag, since all that would be going on client side, wouldn't it? Maybe the game operates differently than others, but I distinctly remember lagging out in both ffxi and wow and still able to execute actions that wouldn't have any affect on my target until things caught up server side. The main difference in 14 is that battle animations won't go off, usually you'll have to jam on the 1 or 2 key until your stamina gauge will go down.
It's still due to lag, but only because of how the game is structured. Initiating an attack sends a request to the server to execute it. If you have enough stamina/TP and proper alignment, the confirmation is sent back to the client along with the damage dealt. Then after getting that confirmation, the animation can begin. That's why every action takes about a half second to actually occur, you need a round trip to and from the server before the animation is allowed to start.

Also, lolsup Tom.




Edited, May 25th 2011 1:45pm by bsphil
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#12 May 25 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
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I've never noticed any lag in the game. It might be because I mash enter without paying attention.
#13 May 25 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
[quote=bsphil]It's still due to lag, but only because of how the game is structured. Initiating an attack sends a request to the server to execute it. If you have enough stamina/TP and proper alignment, the confirmation is sent back to the client along with the damage dealt. Then after getting that confirmation, the animation can begin. That's why every action takes about a half second to actually occur, you need a round trip to and from the server before the animation is allowed to start.


Man, what were they thinking?

Also, lolsup.
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#14 May 25 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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blueazaka wrote:
I've never noticed any lag in the game. It might be because I mash enter without paying attention.


lol'd. Seriously.
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#15 May 25 2011 at 1:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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TurboTom wrote:
blueazaka wrote:
I've never noticed any lag in the game. It might be because I mash enter without paying attention.


lol'd. Seriously.


Same, that was good
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#16 May 25 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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From my observations, the game uses some kind of universal hidden "round" system. Think of it as WoW's Global Cooldown: Even if you have TP and stamina, you just cannot spam 3 WS instantly; they'll all occur about 1 second after each other.

If you already did an action during one of those "rounds", the game won't let you act until the next one. Because of this system, it can be pretty hard to get both Haymaker and Jarring Strike to register after an Evade. (You have 2 "rounds" window to use feint or counters, so usually if you have some input buffered in the queue, you won't be able to get even one ability out before the window closes.)

This is also why you can't burn your entire stamina on light strikes/flurries and what-have-you in a second, but need a couple of moments to do so. This totally can give the impression of lag.

If you act "late" in a round, you can sometime get 2 moves to fire off seemingly instantly one after the other, but never 3, because you'll have to wait one complete "cycle" for the next one.

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Rogues in world of warcraft used to have a universal timer on their energy regeneration, which was, iirc, 20 points every 2 seconds. People started using mods that would warn them of the arriving "tick" of +20 energy, and they would learn to burst fire right before the regen, so they would effectively gain an advantage in DPS, especially in PvP after opening from stealth.

This was all "ruined" when Blizzard started to give 1 energy every .1 second, effectively killing the extra 20 energy "pro" players would use.

---

I've mentioned the above history lesson just to show that it's not that weird from square to use a system like that -- Blizzard, that are often pionneers in mmo technology, used one for a couple of years on their own.

It took also a couple of years to perfect their network code to allow for 1 second GCDs instead of the 1.5seconds that was enforced at the beginning.

Hopefully, we can expect Square to follow and upgrade FFXIV in a similar fashion over the next few years (although I'd prefer more content than system upgrades at this point...)

Edited, May 25th 2011 7:57pm by Docent42
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#17 May 25 2011 at 8:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
From my observations, the game uses some kind of universal hidden "round" system. Think of it as WoW's Global Cooldown: Even if you have TP and stamina, you just cannot spam 3 WS instantly; they'll all occur about 1 second after each other.

If you already did an action during one of those "rounds", the game won't let you act until the next one. Because of this system, it can be pretty hard to get both Haymaker and Jarring Strike to register after an Evade. (You have 2 "rounds" window to use feint or counters, so usually if you have some input buffered in the queue, you won't be able to get even one ability out before the window closes.)

This is also why you can't burn your entire stamina on light strikes/flurries and what-have-you in a second, but need a couple of moments to do so. This totally can give the impression of lag.

If you act "late" in a round, you can sometime get 2 moves to fire off seemingly instantly one after the other, but never 3, because you'll have to wait one complete "cycle" for the next one.

---

Rogues in world of warcraft used to have a universal timer on their energy regeneration, which was, iirc, 20 points every 2 seconds. People started using mods that would warn them of the arriving "tick" of +20 energy, and they would learn to burst fire right before the regen, so they would effectively gain an advantage in DPS, especially in PvP after opening from stealth.

This was all "ruined" when Blizzard started to give 1 energy every .1 second, effectively killing the extra 20 energy "pro" players would use.

---

I've mentioned the above history lesson just to show that it's not that weird from square to use a system like that -- Blizzard, that are often pionneers in mmo technology, used one for a couple of years on their own.

It took also a couple of years to perfect their network code to allow for 1 second GCDs instead of the 1.5seconds that was enforced at the beginning.

Hopefully, we can expect Square to follow and upgrade FFXIV in a similar fashion over the next few years (although I'd prefer more content than system upgrades at this point...)

Edited, May 25th 2011 7:57pm by Docent42


agree with FFXIV observations , is more fustrating for "buffs" ,i can chain a Tp skill with a built tp skill actually . but yeah....

however disagree with WoW rogue , i prefer the new energy system (ISNT 1 energy/ 1 sec lol , more like 1 energy 0.1s) , is streamlined , no "tick", and haste = energy regens faster ........is awesome (for me ) , yeah a timed "tick" is free 20 energy but......having 50 energy and want to MUTI? wait for energy tick! bleh :P

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#18 May 25 2011 at 11:49 PM Rating: Good
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Overffxi wrote:
however disagree with WoW rogue , i prefer the new energy system (ISNT 1 energy/ 1 sec lol , more like 1 energy 0.1s) , is streamlined , no "tick", and haste = energy regens faster ........is awesome (for me ) , yeah a timed "tick" is free 20 energy but......having 50 energy and want to MUTI? wait for energy tick! bleh :P

I said 1 every .1 second. I suppose 0.1 is more readable, but essentially the same thing :P

I don't mind the change to the new energy regen, it just "broke" the edge that some players using the mods were having over the rest. I personally was never "leet" enough to use it (my rogues were solo characters for fun, not raiders or pvpers), although it was very obvious when your timing was "on the spot" -- which could happen randomly when playing.
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