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Battle System Revamp Q&A by com. reps. Follow

#1 May 27 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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So a huge battle system Q&A was recently posted by Foxclon (JP Rep) with questions gathered from all regions, some exclusive, some just the most common from all regions. Bayohne (NA rep) posted the first half just now (translation) and the other half is coming soon. Figured i'd post it for discussion. Oh and protip: looking into it = working on it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/10881-Battle-Reform-Blueprint/page28

Battle system Q&A (part 1)

Here we go, the first half of the Q&A that was recently posted in the JP forums. Please keep in mind that these weren't specific questions from only one region of the forum, but actually compiled from questions, comments and concerns from all parts of the community and compiled together. Without further ado~

Greetings!

My goodness! Thank you for the incredible amount of feedback. I think I underestimated you guys. I've gone ahead and gathered responses from the Development team, mainly from Matsui, Takai, and Minagawa and compiled them here. Though I don't think we'll be able to respond in this manner very often, I'd like to seize the opportunity to do so when it presents itself

Well then, let's get down to answering your questions...I believe I collected them midday Thursday, so I may have missed a few. I tried to collect every relevant post, excluding those that didn't seem to either pose a question or express an opinion, but please accept my apologies if I missed something (I'm making excuses for myself). There were quite a few posts to go through, so the answers are sometimes brief, but that doesn't mean they weren't considered carefully!

Also, though I'm afraid it's my fault for setting things up, everything ended up clumped into one thread, so I'd appreciate it if you could make separate threads for each topic moving forward.

Server load related
As previously stated, the programmers are looking into a fundamental reworking of the system, but this is a long-term development goal. We're working on improvements to reduce the number of unnecessary data searches and function calls related to battle calculations.

How about suspending all commands while performing actions, and then having them go into effect after actions are completed?
We'll look into it, and if it works out better than what we have in place, we'll make the change.

I want to be able to perform actions and cast spells immediately.
Although you'll still have to wait while in the middle of performing actions and casting spells, we're looking into allowing instant execution of actions and spells while in auto-attack mode.

Because of the restrictions of the stamina gauge, I can't execute actions with various special effects when I need to.
We are planning to remove the stamina gauge. Like before, TP and MP abilities will still be affected by recast times. There will also be cooldown times between actions.

After mistakenly choosing an action, or deciding to use a different action, there's no way to cancel a previously selected action.
This is somewhat related to the items brought up above in that once we change over to a gameplay style that allows for immediate execution of commands, this should no longer be an issue (since there won't even be an opportunity to cancel something to begin with).

I'm too busy manually managing my own actions to be able to pay attention to what actions others are taking.
I think the situation should improve once auto-attack has been implemented.

According to the Producer's Letter, the action bar is to be modified; is it actually going to be removed completely?
The action bar will not be removed. What will be removed is the stamina gauge. The action bar will be improved so that it is easier to use and easier to see important information.

The action gauge fills too slowly.
As noted above, the action gauge is scheduled to be removed.

Especially during party battles, the effects are too flashy and it is hard to look at the screen. I would like effects to be removed for regular attacks and the action to be played out more clearly.
This will be adjusted.

Raise has no visual effect, so sometimes other characters and I cast overlapping raise spells.
We are looking into this.

It is hard to distinguish whether spells are cast on enemies or allies, so I would like the effects of spells being cast to be accentuated.
We recognize this as a problem. We are looking into fixing this problem.

During battle I have to be running around constantly, and that leads me to only look at the mini map during battle.
Is this because the enemy is moving or because you want to run away? We are looking into fixing the problem of the enemy moving.

During battle I automatically move closer to the enemy. As a marauder Steadfast disappears sometimes, and monsters go out of range for area of effect attacks.
For regular attacks, this will be fixed when auto attack is implemented. We are looking into fixing actions.

The attacking motion is small, so it is hard to see what my enemies and allies are doing.
We are looking into fixing the player motions and would like to make adjustments in the near future.

Some battle motions are repeated frequently, so I would like to see more new motions.
For some actions, we plan to add new motions/effects.

It is weird that characters can still move while they are asleep.
We are looking into this.

I would like more attention to be paid to the motion when receiving a special attack from a monster.
We have no specific adjustments planned, but we have taken note of your input.

It's frustrating that the action bar is not displayed unless something is targeted.
We are looking into displaying the action bar at all times.

Instead of having to go through multiple layers of actions, I would like to be able to view all my actions at once.
We are currently looking into being able to display multiple action bars at one time.

There should be an easier way to identify when counter-type actions can be used.
Due to the technical issues we have to address first, it’s not something that we will be able to implement right away. However, we are looking into being able to easily identify when certain actions can be used. An example would be to have the action in a halftone color when it can’t be used due to being out of range, etc.

When will be able to use cool spells and skills like the ones from the opening movie where the characters are fighting the Malboro, or the barrier-like spells used in certain cut scenes?
Although we are not able to provide you with a time frame, we can promise you that we are currently working hard to address the current issue at hand. Once these issues are addressed, we would like to start working on implementing additional spells and skills.

I would like to be able to either see the range of my actions or have my character automatically move into range in case I’m out of range.
We will look into it.

It takes forever for the macro pallet to show with a gamepad.
We will look into it when we revamp the macro pallet.

I would like to be able to claim more than one group of monsters at a time.
We are planning on revamping the claim system.

I find it strange that all monsters have a ranged attack. There’s no point in binding monsters in the current state of the game.
We will look into it.

It’s difficult to position myself around a monster when they are constantly moving around.
We will speak with the person in charge. Please note that we may decide to keep the movement of certain monsters in its current state.

I find it annoying when you fight a NM with a group of players and the NM makes a sound every time a player attacks it.
I could see how that could be annoying.

I don’t like how the character takes a few extra steps after you stop.
We may look into it down the road, but they are currently no plans of addressing this matter.

The timing of the attack motion, damage display, and the damage taken is off.
I completely agree that it does seem strange in the current state. Unfortunately, we are currently unable to provide you with a detailed response regarding this matter.

You are currently able to target monsters that are claimed by another party.
We will look into this while we revamp the battle system.


Edited, May 27th 2011 6:06pm by Teknoman
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#2 May 27 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don’t like how the character takes a few extra steps after you stop.


What an idiot -.-
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#3 May 27 2011 at 5:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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As someone who has been steadfast in the "wait and see" and "programming and game design is hard, give them time to work it out" schools of thought; I am going to have to bite the bullet and admit... That may be the most irksome string of We'll look into it.s I've ever seen.

There's some genuinely good information in here, but I think there's a point where it would be better to just let us stew and find out when their done than have to say "We're looking into it." twenty times in a row - it's just not the best way to raise spirits. If they said it once or twice, that's encouraging, but dozens of times in a row just sounds rote.

Edited, May 27th 2011 7:14pm by Hulan
#4 May 27 2011 at 5:15 PM Rating: Good
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Well, at least they're showing that they're aware of various problems.
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#5 May 27 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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I worry a bit about the phrase "auto attack mode". I think that building a system thats possible to go either way would be pretty difficult.
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#6 May 27 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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They used "we'll look into it" or its other vairents 13 times...

I don't know how to react to this, but I'll definately look into it.
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#7 May 27 2011 at 6:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Good to know they are still looking into things almost a year later.

Edited, May 27th 2011 8:13pm by tpgsoldier
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#8 May 27 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Round 2!

Casting Cure while performing an attack will cause you to lose focus on your target.
We'll address this issue during our review of the action-related data.

Whenever someone casts cure on me, I end up targeting them.
We'll address this issue during our review of the action-related data.

The subtarget of my action gets set to an enemy the action has no effect on.
We'll address this issue during our review of the action data.

I want text commands that use pronouns, like "/assist" and "/mark" and "/ta," to be implemented.
We'll look into these during our combat-related revisions.

Monsters often clump together and make it difficult to accurately select a target.
When monsters bundle up together, it does become difficult to tell which has the yellow name and which have red names. It's also hard to tell which of them has the "attack this one!" mark attached.
To address these issues, we're looking into implementing a system that allows you to set the target cursor to appear above the nameplate.

Raise can end up targeting enemies.
We'll address this along with the previously mentioned "subtarget of my action gets set to an enemy the action has no effect on" issue.

I'd like it if my target could "glow" using a bloom graphical effect.
This would require modifying the graphical system, so although it would be difficult to implement in the near future, we'll look into it.

When targeting someone as the main target, when you change targets, the party member list flashes to indicate you're targeting them. I'd like to have this implemented when sub-targeting someone as well (About to cure yourself, but tab over to them).
We are going to implement this.

I'd like an arrow, or a highlight, or some kind of indicator on the party member list to show which party member is selected as my subtarget.
We are going to implement this.

Sometime when standing directly in front of a PC or NPC, I'll press the confirm button and it will end up targeting something ridiculous, like a target that was next to me or behind me.
In Patch 1.17, we adjusted the target selection mechanics, so please see if the situation is resolved now.

I'd like to be able to manually set up the controller configuration myself when using a gamepad for targeting.
We are working on expanding the list of configurable commands for both gamepads and keyboards.

The battle system is compromised of two types of attacks; Turn based attacks (stamina gauge, recast, attacks whose success is determined after the hit) and action based attacks (attacks that can be dodged by moving around).
As stated previously, the stamina gauge is scheduled to be removed. We believe that all the other issues mentioned do not detract from the game significantly.

I would like distance, movement, and positioning to play a larger role in the game. The graphics are so nice that it would be a waste if the battles are mostly number based.
Once the basic upgrades are taken care of, more advanced upgrades involving attack direction and positioning and regional destruction will be worked on.

Stamina gauge, recast interval, and TP requirement present 3 major hindrances to using abilities.
The action gauge will be removed, but recast interval and TP requirements will remain.

Recasting the same spells takes way too long (Reuse interval)
We will be reviewing all actions, so recast times that are disproportionately long will be adjusted, while some recast times are intentionally long. We would like to continue to receive feedback on the forums.

The usefulness of supplementary abilities and the effects of food can’t be easily seen.
Don't worry, these will be adjusted. The effects of food will be reviewed and made readily available through help text.

Important moves that are earned in multiples such as Shadowbind/Shadowbind II share the same recast, so they are difficult to take advantage of.
Shadowbind II is an upgrade of Shadowbind, so we have planned for the recast time to be shared.

My actions miss frequently. My attacks never hit successfully.
Even using the proper rank and gear, my accuracy is too low (or my opponent’s evasion is too high)
Accuracy and action accuracy will be considered important points when we upgrade the battle calculations.

Spells are easily resisted (full / partial) no matter how long the spell takes to cast or how much MP it requires.
We will be working on adjusting the balance. It would be fantastic if we could continue to hear your thoughts via forums.

If a monster dies while you are casting a healing spell, the spell is canceled.
We will discuss this with the person in charge.

I wanted to play a healer, so I chose to be a Conjurer, but I think it's strange that a Thaumaturge is better suited to act as a healer. In terms of HP healed and area of affect, the Thaumaturge is just better.
In addition to the review of battle class actions, we're also going to be adjusting the classes to give them each specialties and defining qualities. We'll continue to look to you all to provide us with feedback as we move forward.

When I play as a Conjurer and see fighter classes cast buffs and healing magic that I haven't yet learned, I get pretty bummed out.
This should be addressed in our adjustment of class roles and specialties. We'll continue to look to you all to provide us with feedback as we move forward.

It might be cool if we could attack and cast spells while moving.
I stop moving as soon as I begin casting a spell.
These two points will be addressed in an upcoming modification that will allow close range attacks and actions to be performed while moving. As for spellcasting, we'd like to make a separate, more comprehensive announcement regarding our plans, so please hang on until then.

Moving while attacking seems to randomly cause the shield to rise up.
It can indeed be frustrating to try to move during an attack/ability. We'll look into reworking shield usage.

The damage from actions typically doesn't exceed 1.5 times that of a normal attack. Conjurer spells that take 30 seconds to cast are weaker than rank "II" spells.
We'll be adjusting this. The previously mentioned revision of battle class actions will include these adjustments.

The camera is unresponsive and it's hard to get a good grasp of the situation due to the constantly changing POV.
We're looking into allowing changes to the camera rotation speed in the settings.

I find it annoying how my player character keeps moving its position when they perform an attack. Occasionally, the character will end up overlapping with the monster and the camera will start turning around the monster.

I don’t like how the camera moves back and forth when my player character is attacked by a monster. It tends to occur when the monster overlaps with my player character after an attack and the camera swings back to its original position.
We are currently looking into the movement of the player character. There are plans to start addressing the issue in the near future.

Currently when I lock onto a target, the camera is centered on the particular target. I would like to see a function where I could turn this feature on/off at will.
We will discuss this with the person in charge.

I would like more control over my character’s point of views.
We will discuss this with the person in charge.

Avoid haste from becoming the primary factor of the game when auto-attack is implemented.
Rest assured that we will handle this situation delicately.

Please be sure to think about the changes in hate management (especially casters) when implementing auto-attack.
Rest assured that we will be careful regarding this.

Please be sure to think about the amount of TP generated from auto-attack. I would like to avoid situations where we have to tell the melee characters to not feed TP to the monster.
We agree that this is indeed a sensitive matter. We will be sure to exert extreme caution.

Intensify status ailments used against a player character in order to make the battles more interesting.
Once we finish adjusting the overall balance of battle, we may look into other factors such as status ailments. However, we will most likely save the intense status ailments for special encounters.

Turn on character collision during battle.
We believe that we will be able to address our current issues by improving the monster AI and hate management instead of making changes to the collision.

The field is currently too peaceful. There should be more active monsters placed along the road.
We will be adjusting monster placement bit by bit.

Levequests and behests are currently boring due to the monsters not having enough HP. It seems like all we’re doing is running from one place to another.
Once the algorithms for battles have been revised, we will look into additional factors such as monsters that appear during guild leves, the amount of their HP, group settings, etc.

We are currently unable to switch between passive move and active mode while moving.
Switching between passive mode and active mode takes too long.
We are currently in the process of experimenting with the issues stated above.

There are too many buff icons.
I agree. We will look into it.
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#9 May 27 2011 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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"We are looking into...", "We are working on...", "We are planning to..." and "We are discussing..."

Pretty much the same thing I see every time I try to read something from SE. Was anyone able to get any valuable info from this Q&A?
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#10 May 27 2011 at 7:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Well at least now they're discussing matters with the person "in charge".
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TERA looks tasty...
#11 May 27 2011 at 7:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
"We are looking into...", "We are working on...", "We are planning to..." and "We are discussing..."

Pretty much the same thing I see every time I try to read something from SE. Was anyone able to get any valuable info from this Q&A?


Please read through both Q&A sections again. Not a ton, but there is some important info in both sections. Also most of the "we are working on" are minor issues. There are plenty of definitive answers in there for more important things related to battle and gameplay in general.
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#12 May 27 2011 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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The field is currently too peaceful. There should be more active monsters placed along the road.


As a crafter who has to hand in Local Levequests at several places, I can't say I'm happy with this suggestion.
#13 May 27 2011 at 7:54 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
I worry a bit about the phrase "auto attack mode". I think that building a system thats possible to go either way would be pretty difficult.


yep, if they add auto attack it should be the only option. They have to stop trying to please every type of player with no regard on how it effects the game as a whole.
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#14 May 27 2011 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I find it annoying when you fight a NM with a group of players and the NM makes a sound every time a player attacks it.
I could see how that could be annoying.


That was my favorite

And yea the auto-attack MODE stood out to me too...

Edited, May 27th 2011 10:06pm by TwistedOwl
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#15 May 27 2011 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Kinda sad a topic like this only has 13 responses after hours of being posted. These forums have seen such a transformation in the past year.
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#16 May 27 2011 at 10:23 PM Rating: Good
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Really doesn't have any solid information, so I'm holding back from simply making a joke post, so I'll just think about it.

Err...
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#17 May 27 2011 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
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Avoid haste from becoming the primary factor of the game when auto-attack is implemented.

This smacks of butthurt monk who couldn't get a black belt.

Haste is, in every RPG that has it, the best way to raise damage output. SE shouldn't act like they're too cool to follow the trends--that's how FFXIV happened.
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#18 May 27 2011 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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It might be cool if we could attack and cast spells while moving.
I stop moving as soon as I begin casting a spell.
These two points will be addressed in an upcoming modification that will allow close range attacks and actions to be performed while moving. As for spellcasting, we'd like to make a separate, more comprehensive announcement regarding our plans, so please hang on until then.


This would be a huge improvement.
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#19 May 28 2011 at 12:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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Riniaru wrote:
Well at least now they're discussing matters with the person "in charge".


lol. Yeah, what was with that statement?

They make it sound as though there's some nameless, shadowy figure that just looms over the development team, trailing fog machines behind his movable platform and shouting monotonous orders in a booming voice from high.

...actually, I think that's how I've always pictured SE headquarters...
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

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#20 May 28 2011 at 12:36 AM Rating: Good
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Avoid haste from becoming the primary factor of the game when auto-attack is implemented.
Rest assured that we will handle this situation delicately.

Please be sure to think about the changes in hate management (especially casters) when implementing auto-attack.
Rest assured that we will be careful regarding this.

Please be sure to think about the amount of TP generated from auto-attack. I would like to avoid situations where we have to tell the melee characters to not feed TP to the monster.
We agree that this is indeed a sensitive matter. We will be sure to exert extreme caution.


Granny,
When you suck eggs make sure you.....
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#21 May 28 2011 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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Teknoman wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
"We are looking into...", "We are working on...", "We are planning to..." and "We are discussing..."

Pretty much the same thing I see every time I try to read something from SE. Was anyone able to get any valuable info from this Q&A?


Please read through both Q&A sections again. Not a ton, but there is some important info in both sections. Also most of the "we are working on" are minor issues. There are plenty of definitive answers in there for more important things related to battle and gameplay in general.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate you putting up the info here, but it doesn't seem like much that is solid info. Just pointing out that it's the usual response. Almost seems like there is some politics involved and SE has this 'We're always willing to answer questions, but never willing to divulge any information' talking point thing going on.

It would be nice to see a response that at least gives a what and a why. If you're going to be vague and say "We may do this in the future", then at least say what the 'this' is specifically. Even if you don't end up changing it or if you do something different, at least you're putting ideas out there or showing that you have an understanding of what the problem or issue is. This just looks like a list of a dozen questions asked several different ways and answered in the exact same way.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#22insanekangaroo, Posted: May 28 2011 at 12:58 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) this was pretty boring
#23 May 28 2011 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
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Scape13 wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I worry a bit about the phrase "auto attack mode". I think that building a system thats possible to go either way would be pretty difficult.


yep, if they add auto attack it should be the only option. They have to stop trying to please every type of player with no regard on how it effects the game as a whole.


Then everyone needs to stop thinking the game is for them specifically lol.
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#24 May 28 2011 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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According to the Producer's Letter, the action bar is to be modified; is it actually going to be removed completely?
The action bar will not be removed. What will be removed is the stamina gauge. The action bar will be improved so that it is easier to use and easier to see important information.

The action gauge fills too slowly.
As noted above, the action gauge is scheduled to be removed.

Lol, make up your mind about what you're removing SE. I know it's a translation and therefor prone to errors and mistakes, but... just reading through the whole thing made me laugh. I have absolutely zero faith left in them being able to mend the situation.
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#25 May 28 2011 at 2:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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There are quite some good and definite points (answers) in this Q&A.

My favorites are:
Quote:

I find it strange that all monsters have a ranged attack. There’s no point in binding monsters in the current state of the game.
We will look into it.

Instead of having to go through multiple layers of actions, I would like to be able to view all my actions at once.
We are currently looking into being able to display multiple action bars at one time.

Monsters often clump together and make it difficult to accurately select a target.
When monsters bundle up together, it does become difficult to tell which has the yellow name and which have red names. It's also hard to tell which of them has the "attack this one!" mark attached.
To address these issues, we're looking into implementing a system that allows you to set the target cursor to appear above the nameplate.

I would like distance, movement, and positioning to play a larger role in the game. The graphics are so nice that it would be a waste if the battles are mostly number based.
Once the basic upgrades are taken care of, more advanced upgrades involving attack direction and positioning and regional destruction will be worked on.

The usefulness of supplementary abilities and the effects of food can’t be easily seen.
Don't worry, these will be adjusted. The effects of food will be reviewed and made readily available through help text.

I wanted to play a healer, so I chose to be a Conjurer, but I think it's strange that a Thaumaturge is better suited to act as a healer. In terms of HP healed and area of affect, the Thaumaturge is just better.
In addition to the review of battle class actions, we're also going to be adjusting the classes to give them each specialties and defining qualities. We'll continue to look to you all to provide us with feedback as we move forward.

When I play as a Conjurer and see fighter classes cast buffs and healing magic that I haven't yet learned, I get pretty bummed out.
This should be addressed in our adjustment of class roles and specialties. We'll continue to look to you all to provide us with feedback as we move forward.

The camera is unresponsive and it's hard to get a good grasp of the situation due to the constantly changing POV.
We're looking into allowing changes to the camera rotation speed in the settings.

Especially the display of food effects in the item help text, improved action bar(s) and the improvement of the positioning system are very nice.
And it's true that Thaumaturge seems to do a better job at healing than Conjurer. Using AoE attack spells in crowded situations is easier too.


I had to laugh about this one:
Quote:
I don’t like how the character takes a few extra steps after you stop.

I agree. If this would be changed the game would be perfect.
/sarcasm

lol

Edited, May 28th 2011 10:30am by RidingBean
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#26 May 28 2011 at 5:29 AM Rating: Decent
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KojiroSoma wrote:
Quote:
According to the Producer's Letter, the action bar is to be modified; is it actually going to be removed completely?
The action bar will not be removed. What will be removed is the stamina gauge. The action bar will be improved so that it is easier to use and easier to see important information.

The action gauge fills too slowly.
As noted above, the action gauge is scheduled to be removed.

Lol, make up your mind about what you're removing SE. I know it's a translation and therefor prone to errors and mistakes, but... just reading through the whole thing made me laugh. I have absolutely zero faith left in them being able to mend the situation.

Action gauge = stamina gauge.

I was going to berate you, but I smell mods. So IOU one (1) elitist, snide and/or snarky remark.

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Redeem it at your discretion.
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#27 May 28 2011 at 5:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Lol, make up your mind about what you're removing SE.


Oh God.

A typo.

(Not even a mistranslation. Just a typo).

They're practically doomed now.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#28 May 28 2011 at 5:36 AM Rating: Good
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Seems like I'm the only one who's actually happy to read this. It looks like they want to make the entire battle system much more streamlined which is my current biggest gripe with the game. Removing the stamina gauge is awesome in my opinion, I never liked it one bit. What I'm picturing is a battle system much more akin to FFXI, but less dependent on macros. Maybe I'm wrong in still having faith in these guys but it looks like they've got a decent map laid out for what they want to do with the game.

The biggest complaint I have heard from the players is that SE isn't making changes fast enough but games don't just program themselves. It takes time to rework an entire game (an MMO nonetheless) from the ground up. There's the initial brainstorm on what to do, then ideas are chosen, a plan is laid out, then they have to fine tune it, delegate which parts are worked on by who, then those teams start implementing and tweaking, then balancing, probably going back and readjusting the initial ideas, more balancing and tweaking, then finally all the code as to be written and implemented into the game itself which I imagine brings up more roadblocks and balance issues, then finally we get the end result.

Well there's my little mini rant I guess, wasn't planning on that. My main point is that I can't imagine the entire team sitting around with their thumbs stuck up their you-know-whats, they're trying to save a game. I haven't really even played FFXIV in a few months but I would really like to see it do well. I have memories of FFXI that make me want to play but with the game in it's current state I just can't do it. I have high hopes for the future still, despite all the negativity floating around recently. I also have patience, because something done right takes time.

$0.02
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#29 May 28 2011 at 8:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Decoding Sqaure Enix's Responses:

We are looking into: Another words, say I say to someone I'm looking into buying this (Meaning i am interested in the idea of buying a PS3 or something), they tell me all the features that the PS3 had, if I like it/impressed etc, there's a high chance I will by it. If the Features were kinda lame and lackluster, theirs a low probability that I will by the PS3. Same thing goes for Say Content. Say for example The core discussion is related to the Grand Companies and one person's idea says, I really think Grand Companies could use a Reputation system ( which I would love but anyways), and other people are like "hey.. This isn't a bad idea, next question is what kind of features would this Reputation have? and in the end if the features fit well into the game it moves to the " We are working on it" stage.

We are working on: Generally means as it states they are currently working on it (thats a good thing)

We are Planning to: Another words Their sights on say.. the Battle system for example: They Want to do this this and that. (sometimes plans get scratched, but thats how the planning stage goes)

We are Discussing: That like saying Someone else and I were having a discussion on weather or nor id pepper would be good in this dish, and we basically have a debate over it until it comes to the conclusion weather we want the pepper in the dish or not. Same thing with like the Battle system, They are discussing weather or not a mage would be good if it could "instantly" cast a spell on said mob and if it would be good for the battle temp (example). Short verison, Means up for debate.
#30 May 28 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Default
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Starlord1 wrote:
Decoding Sqaure Enix's Responses:

We are looking into: Another words, say I say to someone I'm looking into buying this (Meaning i am interested in the idea of buying a PS3 or something), they tell me all the features that the PS3 had, if I like it/impressed etc, there's a high chance I will by it. If the Features were kinda lame and lackluster, theirs a low probability that I will by the PS3. Same thing goes for Say Content. Say for example The core discussion is related to the Grand Companies and one person's idea says, I really think Grand Companies could use a Reputation system ( which I would love but anyways), and other people are like "hey.. This isn't a bad idea, next question is what kind of features would this Reputation have? and in the end if the features fit well into the game it moves to the " We are working on it" stage.


Nah. Usually when they say, "we will look into it" it means it's unlikely to be addressed in the near future. Basically, it's a diplomatic way of saying "no," "your idea sucks," or "that's too bad."
#31 May 28 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Default
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I don't expect anyone to make the game specifically for me. I am a little turned off by them choosing auto attack in the first place, but I could play past that. Not saying I like the stamina system either, but there are other avenues they could have pursued. I just hope that combat feels pretty different and unique from XI. If it is very similar, I could not see myself playing a game with the same combat from a game I already played 7 years.

If making combat like XI is their goal and the wish of many players playing now. Then I wish you good times and hope you enjoy your time in XIV. That system always irked me how players would miss a stun or something. Then you would find out that they were watching tv or doing homework doing combat. I will wait and see it's final implementation before thinking of throwing in the towel though. I agree with that comment on haste. There shouldn't be one defining stat that every job aims for while other play second fiddle.
That's bad game design no matter how many mmos follow that.

Most of the tuning going on other than auto attack seems very nice. Most of all just good to see them communicating so closely with the community.
#32 May 28 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Decent
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RidingBean wrote:
I had to laugh about this one:
Quote:
I don’t like how the character takes a few extra steps after you stop.

I agree. If this would be changed the game would be perfect.
/sarcasm

lol


It's a problem in situations where positioning it important, especially when using weaponskills where your enemies have to be lined up and it's hard to get your character in the right spot.
#33 May 28 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
24 posts
Depends on how you look at it, most people look at the negative side of things, I like looking at the positives if things don't happens the way they happen, then thats fine, pick up and move on. There will be brighter days.

We will look into it is worded differently then the 4 main ones I explained

We will look into it: Meaning, they will take your suggestion and analyze it to see if your suggestion is good.

I have seen some ideas that will be making its way into Patch 1.18 (battle system) on how they are going about it, and they were extremely close to what the Battle producer letter said.

Say "no" "your idea sucks" or "that's too bad" I'm sorry, it sounds childish, and not business like for SE to just say Hey This idea blows type attitude.

They look into the suggestions and then create their own similar or around the ballpark of what your or any suggestion implies. When SE goes to work, when they come up with Ideas.. Do you think they say the same thing to themselves? They could be.. but in a business perspective, they have to be professional about it.

=)
#34 May 28 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
regional destruction


o.O Maybe I'm reading that wrong and it means parts that fall off of a mobs body... but we already have that on a few mob family types... Would be kinda cool to have scorch marks after a fire/lightning spell and puddles of water from ice/water spells that faded away slowly during/after a battle though IU'm sure people would complain because a bush didn't get permenatly destroyed...
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#35 May 28 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Instead of having to go through multiple layers of actions, I would like to be able to view all my actions at once.

We are currently looking into being able to display multiple action bars at one time.


Yes, please.

It blows having to cycle through the different layers on a game pad. Had to make a macro for Cure and Sacrifice because of it.
#36 May 28 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is actually some good info in there with the "we're looking into it"s. This one has me a little anxious though:

Quote:
I wanted to play a healer, so I chose to be a Conjurer, but I think it's strange that a Thaumaturge is better suited to act as a healer. In terms of HP healed and area of affect, the Thaumaturge is just better.
In addition to the review of battle class actions, we're also going to be adjusting the classes to give them each specialties and defining qualities. We'll continue to look to you all to provide us with feedback as we move forward.


I picked THM from the start because I wanted to be a good healer and I noticed this right off the bat. If I wasn't working on my CON now this Q/A would worry me, as the question they chose to address this matter with hints that CON may soon become the better healer. Looks like they won't just be making specialization for jobs but also making our current classes more specialized. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it makes me wonder what "adjustments" my character's classes will be receiving.
#37 May 28 2011 at 2:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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So I fought a Goblin for the first time today and I noticed that they make this weird sound, like a bird dying or something, whenever you hit them.

SQUARE Y U MAKE THEM SOUND LIKE BIRDS?!

I'd like to add this to the list. Make the Goblins sound more manly like they did in XI.

MANLY MAN!

Edited, May 28th 2011 4:32pm by CupDeNoodles
#39 May 28 2011 at 8:57 PM Rating: Decent
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
SQUARE Y U MAKE THEM SOUND LIKE BIRDS?
i lol'd hard
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Purchase and instal a bigger hard drive, at the moment my PS3 has 500GB memory which is plenty.
#40 May 29 2011 at 2:49 AM Rating: Good
Kitprower wrote:
Quote:
I don’t like how the character takes a few extra steps after you stop.


What an idiot -.-


this.
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#41 May 30 2011 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
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I'm kinda confused. Is this from the beta or what's going on right now? See back in Beta we got a lot of "we're looking into it". I think we all know how that turned out.

/pessimism off

IF SE follows through on this stuff, hopefully FFXIV will start to get some momentum going. I'm not holding my breath, but am willing to continue with my wait and see approach. Go on SE, prove me wrong. Please prove me wrong. I'd really like to be able to like FFXIV.
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#42 May 30 2011 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:
Quote:
Avoid haste from becoming the primary factor of the game when auto-attack is implemented.

Haste is, in every RPG that has it, the best way to raise damage output.


No it's not.

In fact, in the last MMORPG I played, not only was haste the "best stat" for only a handful of specs, for some specs it was actually the LEAST beneficial damage stat.
#43 May 30 2011 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
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BastokFL wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
Quote:
Avoid haste from becoming the primary factor of the game when auto-attack is implemented.

Haste is, in every RPG that has it, the best way to raise damage output.


No it's not.

In fact, in the last MMORPG I played, not only was haste the "best stat" for only a handful of specs, for some specs it was actually the LEAST beneficial damage stat.

id imagine a haste spell/ability without any negative side effects or special restrictions, like in FFXI, is always one of the best ways to increase damage output in any game.
wolverines haste in MvC3 is a decent recent example of "any game"

Edited, May 31st 2011 12:20am by pixelpop
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#44 May 30 2011 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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The thing with haste is, once stats grow enough in any game, let's say WoW, and take completely out of my *** numbers, like 2500 strength or something.

Increasing your strength from 2500 to 2550 does very little for your damage output, but going from 100% to 90% of your swing delay does a lot for your overall damage.

The problem is, in most game, it becomes excessively hard to provide an item that does the same for you with similar numbers.

Example in FFXI:
between +10 attack, +10 accuracy or +10% haste, on the same slot..

Attack cannot compete with the other two, because 10 accuracy is straight +5% to your hit rate, and 10% haste is.. exponentially better than anything, depending on how much haste you already have.

If the item was 10% haste, 20 accuracy or +150 attack, then you'd have to think about it and look at hard numbers. (I'm willing to bet that in XI's case, 10% haste would still win for TPing)

Personally, I would like to see gear options being more often a question of playstyle and choice. Right now in most games I play, there isn't much of a choice; a quick sim will quickly show which of the 3 epic purple shoulder you should wear given your spec and the rest of your equipment. Very rarely you'll see 2 options that create the same DPS result, but with different spread of accuracy/damage/haste.

Example: In WoW, getting your HIT to cap is paramount, because a missed spell is a very severe drop in damage. My question is, how come a gear set without the hit isn't able to provide the same DPS, but with the risk of misses from time to time.

Steady hit capped spec: 50, 50, 50, 50
Not-Hit capped spec: 100, miss, miss, 100.

4 cast, result : 200 damage.

Obviously, the "Not-Hit capped" could result in 0 or 400 damage too, given luck/bad luck, but is offering that option really a bad thing? Are there players who would rather see random huge numbers and more resists?

Anyway, I rambled.

Edited, May 31st 2011 1:11am by Docent42
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#45 May 31 2011 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, if they changed haste from being a % of reduction of attack latency
to be a % speed increase to the refill rate of the stamina gauge,
the problem would be vastly dininished already... I Wonder why they
didn't do the same thing in FFXI.

Edited, May 31st 2011 3:29am by Rinsui
#46 May 31 2011 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Stamina gauge is being removed, so that's pretty much impossible now, not that haste is even in the game as of yet that I'm aware.
#47 May 31 2011 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, basically whay I mean works without a stamina gauge as well. Instead of a delay-based formula:

**************************************************
Time to next attack = (normal delay)*(100%-haste%)
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where each additional %haste becomes exponentially more powerful than the previous one, why didn't they go with a speed-based formula like

******************************************************
Time to next attack = 1/((normal speed)*(100%+haste%))
******************************************************

where each additional %haste becomes logarithmically less powerful than the previous one?





#48 May 31 2011 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Docent42 wrote:
The thing with haste is, once stats grow enough in any game, let's say WoW, and take completely out of my *** numbers, like 2500 strength or something.

Increasing your strength from 2500 to 2550 does very little for your damage output, but going from 100% to 90% of your swing delay does a lot for your overall damage.


Except that in WoW, that's not the choice your making. At level 85, the choice would be between reducing your swing delay from 100% to 90% or increasing you STR from 2500 to 3923. And for a plate-wearing DPS class, the STR is by far a greater improvement - in fact, for some plate DPS, like Retribution Paladin, STR is such a huge boost to damage output point-for-point that it even outweighs hit rate when the choice is available. (Actually, the choice right now would be between 10% delay reduction, 11.8% hit rate increase, 7.9% critical hit rate, 11.8% enemy dodge and parry rate reduction, 7.9 points of spec-specific effect, or 1423 STR or AGI.) But that's neither here nor there...



Haste was the best stat at higher gear levels in FFXI because the way they implemented haste wound up having increasing returns - since it works by reducing attack delay, it increases the character's damage output by a factor of 1/(1-haste), which is also why FFXI has a haste cap - as haste approaches 100%, damage output approaches infinity. Furthermore, regular weapon strikes are a large portion of damage output, and haste results in faster TP gain, so haste increases 100% of a melee character's damage output (casters are a different story, as it only reduces recast, not casting time).

The more common implementation, however, increases the number of attacks performed in a given amount of time by haste% - so if you have 100% haste, you attack twice in the time you would normally attack once (this is even how haste works in FF12...) - thus, while in FFXI, 80% haste quintuples your damage output (i.e. a 400% increase), in most other games, 80% haste increases your damage output by 80%. The consequence of this is that x% haste is no better than any other form of +x% damage.

In addition, often there are significant sources of damage that are not affected by haste. To use WoW examples again, there are several specs that are reliant upon damage-over-time abilities for the majority of their damage, but until the Lich King era, haste didn't make DoTs tick any faster; for Retribution Paladins, melee attacks (including additional damage from abilities equivalent to FFXI's en-spells) account for about 35% of their damage output - the remaining 65% comes from abilities that are constrained by the 1.5-second global cooldown, which is not affected by haste; Rogue damage output is constrained by energy regeneration, which before Cataclysm was not affected by haste; and so on.
#49 May 31 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks Bastok for spelling that out.
Was too lazy to type it all. -.-/

Why they chose the "percentual reduction of attack delay" avenue remains a completely mystery to me up to this day.

Edited, May 31st 2011 9:56am by Rinsui
#50 May 31 2011 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
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BastokFL wrote:
Except that in WoW, that's not the choice your making. At level 85, the choice would be between reducing your swing delay from 100% to 90% or increasing you STR from 2500 to 3923.

Well, in WoW, you don't really have any piece of gear that forgoes HASTE for MORE STR. It's either Haste, Hit Rating, Crit Rating or Mastery. All piece of the same iLEVEL have the same STR, unless it's a tank piece.

What I said in my above example wasn't that Haste is overpowered in WoW. My complaint is that there is always something clear that is easy to "sim" and provide a better result. For example, in WoW, Hit Rating is king. You lose too much DPS from having only 80% hit rating, as 20% of your attacks do 0 damage. It's impossible to say, decide to let your hit rating low, but focus on having a stronger damage output, making you compensate for that 20% miss rate with stronger hits. Therefore, for all DPS jobs, guides and sims will say "Cap Hit, then go for [Bla]. Failing that, [Bla2] is better than [Bla3]" (Replace Bla, Bla2 and Bla3 with Mastery, Haste and Crit in whatever order is appropriate for your class/spec)

The problem that it creates is that Blizzard gives us ton of gear, but there is a clear Best In Slot, which can be calculated, and there is no real choice to how you gear yourself -- you go for Best In Slot and try to be as good as you can until you reach that point.

I'm not saying "WoW has a problem with Haste being King just like XI". I'm just saying that it's boring when there's no freedom of choice. There's a clear winning formula, and it's nearly impossible to match it using another gear/play style.

To use an FFXI example, imagine that someone fully decked in endgame Haste/STP/Accuracy gear was in a party with someone in full endgame STR+/Crit+/Slow+%, and they both melee'd and WSed in those sets -- no gear swap. It's clear to me that the Haste guy would win the parse, but I'm saying if the gear was "balanced right", these two sets would provide the flavour of your character/playstyle. "I like lots of small hits!" "I prefer big slow hits!"
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