Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This Forum is Read Only

No Need to Level New Jobs???Follow

#1 May 28 2011 at 11:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
***
2,000 posts
In case you haven't been following the story on the offical JP forums about the latest Dengeki:

Lodestone blogs discussing the interview.

Rentahamster wrote:
Here's the translated info from the interview:

There's going to be one job that corresponds to each class. You do a job quest and then you get to use that job. Doesn't say which jobs are going to correlate with which classes, but I think Gladiator -> Paladin is confirmed.


Once you get that job, your job rank will be the same as your corresponding class rank. So, if you're a GLD 50 now, you'll become a Paladin rank 50.


Not what I was expecting at all...

Edited, May 28th 2011 10:01pm by akirussan
____________________________
#2 May 28 2011 at 11:08 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
161 posts
I wasn't really expecting to have to level up a job. I thought it would just be some sort of modification to whichever class you were. I will be disappointed if there is only 1 job per class though. Gladiator > Paladin but nothing else? (That would make me a sad panda.) But we can't make any judgement calls until we get some detailed information. I tend to avoid the lodestone though, so thanks for posting it here.
____________________________




#3 May 28 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,636 posts
I don't think they will limit it to only one job per class, I think they'd miss out on a lot of opportunities there, and also at that point why bother with a new name, why not just have group mode and regular mode. What I am most curious about is are they going to have jobs that multiple classes are required to unlock. I know a lot of people talked hypothetically about gladiator + conjurer = paladin, which I think is silly because paladin is like 95% gladiator with one conjurer spell. There's zero reason not to just have it come purely from gladiator.

But yeah, it also sounds like we won't ever be leveling jobs, you get the abilities associated with it at the classes level. I'm actually a huge fan of this system, it seems a better way to differentiate between the classes we have and the classes/jobs that we are getting, that most suggestions I had read.
____________________________


#4 May 29 2011 at 12:32 AM Rating: Excellent
4 posts
That's kind of disappointing.
#5 May 29 2011 at 12:35 AM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
**
325 posts
I played this FTP mmo a few months back that has a similar system to this one. You would rank a beginners class to 20 then they gave you to tier 1 classes to choose from. Once you picked you would still be lvl 20 but with your T1 class. The at lvl 40 they would give you two T2 classes to choose from stemming from the T1 class. I thought it was a very unique.
____________________________
FFXIV
Name: Z'veagan Brolz
Server: Ultros
Linkshell/FC: Lootwhorindramafest
#6 May 29 2011 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,948 posts
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...
____________________________




#7 May 29 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,022 posts
Veagan wrote:
I played this FTP mmo a few months back that has a similar system to this one. You would rank a beginners class to 20 then they gave you to tier 1 classes to choose from. Once you picked you would still be lvl 20 but with your T1 class. The at lvl 40 they would give you two T2 classes to choose from stemming from the T1 class. I thought it was a very unique.



That just sounds like RO.
____________________________
Main character: AutumEmber
60blm/whm Rank 7 Windurst
Linkshell: SeraphsDarkside
Server: Bismarck
#8 May 29 2011 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
So, really, the new job system is just the ability to equip/unequip a few new abilities. :\
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#9 May 29 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
**
268 posts
Khornette wrote:
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...


sorry, this comment was win. haha, imagine how mad people would be to regrind again.
____________________________
Kula Vermillion - Mysidia

#10 May 29 2011 at 9:24 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
Zalim the Charming wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...


sorry, this comment was win. haha, imagine how mad people would be to regrind again.


Not very, if it seemed more like adding Blue Mage and less like patching some new abilities.

Also, "people" complain, yes, but it's not necessarily the same people complaining about different things; I never complained about grinding, for example. It should be obvious that, when you're reading the opinions of hundreds of posters, some people will end up complaining about X and not Y, while others will complain about Y and not X. It doesn't necessarily show inconsistency unless you think that all these posts are by the same guy...
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#11 May 29 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
Took me a min to find where it was again but:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/10879-Battle-Reform-Blueprint


Battle Director Matsui wrote:
Rather than being advanced versions of classes, we would like players to think of jobs as specialized playing styles optimized for partying. While playing as a particular job will render you unable to equip certain actions of other classes, you will be compensated with access to exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests.



Quote:
exclusive actions, which can be acquired through quests



I thought this was rather unique in that you don't just grind away to get your new abilities but unlock them through quests(story lines?) So basically you have a base class that you apply the job to and said job will get more powerful the more you put into it and unlock new skills and abilities rather than just grind away again on a different tier. This is exactly the kind of thing I was asking for about 6 months ago, not an entire new class/job but a specialization. If they are in fact putting in quests to not only unlock said job but the abilities within them I can see why it's taking so damned longSmiley: lol

Now the only thing I hope is that the job isn't tied down to just one class and could be moved across several classes. Like a LNC that becomes a Spear wielding Paladin or a GLA that becomes your more traditional sword/shield combo Paladin. However I still think it should be only 2 or so classes that make sense for said job, an Archer/Paladin makes pretty much zero sense. However say there were some Assassin job it could go to either PUG (close range) or ARC (long range - think Sniper from FFTA).

Quite a few ways they can go about it and I hope they end up creating something new and rewarding.

____________________________
#12 May 29 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
351 posts
Inkeh wrote:
That's kind of disappointing.


Actually, I'm quite pleased with that.

The grind is a big waste of time. I'd rather make my character more powerful by having fun, not killing the same **** monsters thousands of times before I can have any fun.
#13 May 29 2011 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
*
128 posts
Im torn on this. I absolutely loved getting my advanced jobs in FFXI and going back outside Bastok to start all over at level 1 whacking the bees, quadav etc.. But.... At a certain point it became just a grind. The newness of the job wore off and i would wish i was just at lvl 75 or whatever lol.
____________________________

#14 May 29 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
**
621 posts
This worries me.
____________________________
Kweh?!

...prophesizing the golden patch since october 2010.
#15 May 29 2011 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Zalim the Charming wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...
sorry, this comment was win. haha, imagine how mad people would be to regrind again.
Totally. But then again, what else is there to do?
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#16 May 29 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
49 posts
One job per class means we probably will not be seeing new weapons. Lame.
____________________________


#17 May 29 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
351 posts
bsphil wrote:
Totally. But then again, what else is there to do?


Imagine... a gaming company... that could make something new and fun to do? Isn't that what these guys are supposed to be producing?

Is suffering for the job you want to play with boring and repetitive tasks all you can look forward to in an MMO? Or isn't there another way?

You've already proven yourself by leveling your class through various grindy means. Having quests to unlock job abilities (as they've mentioned they're going to do) rather than toss you into yet another leveling grind sounds like a great start.

Let's face it guys, FFXIV is off to a sucky start. Do you really think you're going to attract a fresh face crowd if you're going to shove them down a prolonged, monotonous track to endgame while those that stuck around from the beginning get to lord it over them?

You want it so that not only do you have to level from 1 to 50 in your class, but you have to drop and do another 50 levels, party only, in your job once you're done with that? Are you freaking kidding me?

Why make people slave away before they can have fun? It's a concept that's tired and old. Games like WoW and Rift are highly successful, and it's not out of a grind from **** that got them there.

I'm not saying you can't have accomplishments under your belt for the time you've put in, but why can't you let someone new to the game join the fun sooner instead of isolating them out of the endgame clique for months at a time? I don't necessarily want a game where everything comes easy, but why does have to include surviving a snorefest first? I'd rather play a game that challenges my brain than my time commitments.
#18 May 29 2011 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,004 posts
mullesch85 wrote:
One job per class means we probably will not be seeing new weapons. Lame.


honestly i would much rather be be able to use mutliple weapons on different classes. i dont really like having to be bound to 1 weapon per class. since this game doesnt have skill to level up for each weapon, since weapon skill is basically your level, there wouldn't be any harm in letting us use different weapons.
#19 May 29 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
**
266 posts
mullesch85 wrote:
One job per class means we probably will not be seeing new weapons. Lame.

On the things listed in the producer letter it says introduction of Job specific armor and weapons
#20 May 29 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,177 posts
bsphil wrote:
Zalim the Charming wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...
sorry, this comment was win. haha, imagine how mad people would be to regrind again.
Totally. But then again, what else is there to do?


Company content, dungeons, sidequests, faction leves, and Ifrit fight.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#21 May 29 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
235 posts
Khornette wrote:
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...



Personally, I rather level a job up from rank 1. I don't want to just magically have a job leveled up without me ever touching it or learning it.

And also, maybe its just me, but I like the feeling of starting back at level 1, and getting to learn and equip a new job.

Edited, May 29th 2011 2:46pm by Scape13
____________________________


#22 May 29 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
***
3,177 posts
Scape13 wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...



Personally, I rather level a job up from rank 1. I don't want to just magically have a job leveled up without me ever touching it or learning it.


It's more of a specialization of a current class rather than a whole new class altogether. It's best to see it that way and it makes more sense.

____________________________
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Grover Eyeveen - Hyperion Server
Viva Eorzea Free Company/Linkshell Leader - Hyperion Server

Aegis Server (2012-2013)
Figaro Server (2010-2012)

Final Fantasy XI:
Retired

Blog
#23 May 29 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
235 posts
It does make more sense when thinking of it that way. I just hope they give us new jobs/classes to level up. I would like to be able to unlock a new job and level it up from rank 1. Like unlocking DRK in FFXI and starting at level 1.
____________________________


#24 May 29 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
*
245 posts
imagine having to "grind" a white mage 1-50 .....

or a "bard"...........lol

this game doesnt support party play as XI does..... and thats too bad...
____________________________
Tarutaru! Summoner 75 , Ranger 75 ,Samurai 75, Blue mage 75
subs or 40+: Blm/whm/rdm/war/nin/thf
All avatars
WW 100+3
#25 May 29 2011 at 1:21 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
From the sounds of if the jobs aren't going to be nearly as full or deep as the classes. Paladin's not going to feel all that different than gladiator, but it may have X% more defense, -X% damage, +X HP, and Some number of new abilities, while some DPS centered job unlocked via gladiator would have different bonuses intended for grouping and a different set of abilities.

I much prefer this idea that the thought of having to level up 3 classes to cap just to allow myself to ability to fine tune myself. MMOs haven't really been focused on grinding since about 2005, its been more focused on the activities rather than journey. Sometimes they actually managed to put those fun activities into the grind, but largely it got ignored. I'd rather have rewards based on merits and objectives than how much time I put into easy/steady grinding.
____________________________


#26 May 29 2011 at 1:39 PM Rating: Excellent
KaneKitty wrote:
So, really, the new job system is just the ability to equip/unequip a few new abilities. :\


I don't think we're really in a position to know just yet. That's why I'm putting things on hold until we either get the patch itself or details about it.

I would hate to get my classes to 50 only to have it automatically switch over to a job. I enjoy the journey as much as the destination. I might even re-roll Osarion when the new job/battle system is out in full force.

I can't wait to see what's in store though.

*edit* except crafting. I'll probably continue getting Weaver to 50.

Edited, May 29th 2011 12:43pm by Osarion
#27 May 29 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
626 posts
well if the above translation is true, then what are they gonna do about CON and THM?
.... wait i just realized, theyre going to make one the full on healer and the other full one nuker, which do you guys think will be which?

i figured theyd do more than just one per class to give some variation, looks like DRK is going to be its very own job with its own starter class in the future.... SMN i bet you anything will start off summoning spirits if and when its ever implimented.
____________________________

#28 May 29 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
626 posts
well i dont want to assume too much, but reading the translation of it, it looks like auto attack isnt going to be fully implimented in june
"1. Mounting the automatic attack] (with patch 1.18 mounting)
First move
[otoatatsuku] itself is mounted the next patch (1.18 patches which are executed in around the middle of June) with, but mounting the motion of all classes is difficult, mounting that motion is after the 1.19

… Just a little dangerous smell does.
 As for automatic attack however it mounts, first there is no motion of attack, is…You can think [tsu] [te] possibility, don't you think?…."
whatever that means.
____________________________

#29 May 29 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
I don't understand the argument that a grind is a bad thing. I have heard people mention "activities" over grinding; I have heard "merit-based" rather than steady grind; and I have heard "fun" over "tedious grind;" but I don't see how or why endgame activities are necessarily different.

With a "grind," you fight monsters and party with people as you learn new abilities and get to equip new gear. With "activities," you fight monsters and party with people as you use your capped abilities and equip new gear from drops.

Essentially they're the same thing, guys. There are instances either way, and a gear grind is no different from a level grind except for the fact that progress in latter is often randomized and correlated with drops. Are endgame events really so fresh, unpredictable, and nuanced compared to moving about the world and learning how to use new abilities?
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#30 May 29 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
351 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
I don't understand the argument that a grind is a bad thing. I have heard people mention "activities" over grinding; I have heard "merit-based" rather than steady grind; and I have heard "fun" over "tedious grind;" but I don't see how or why endgame activities are necessarily different.


Well, let me put it this way. Take the difference between painting a fence, and playing some basketball.

Painting a fence is necessary to preserve the fence, but it's mostly a lot of tedious, monotonous work that takes time to complete. You can have a sense of accomplishment from painting a fence, but you're really not going to be all that engaged during the process. It's just something you have to get through. That's pretty much what a grind is in an MMO. It's just a lengthy number of easy, predictable fights that reward a steady amount of XP so your character can finally start playing the portion of the game that matters: end-game.

But take basketball. It helps to have some skill from practice, but for the most part anyone can start playing. There are a certain number of rules and strategies so it's not completely chaotic, but at the same you never really know how it's all going to play out until you're in the thick of it. It's fun and challenging because of this. This is the way games should be. Ones that reward skill and the ability to overcome unpredictable circumstances. Win or lose, the process is engaging and enjoyable.

If jobs exist to supplement end-game party activities, I really don't see why subjecting FFXIV players to yet another fence to paint is even necessary. Let's just play ball, already.
#31 May 29 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
***
1,566 posts
Quote:
With a "grind," you fight monsters and party with people as you learn new abilities and get to equip new gear. With "activities," you fight monsters and party with people as you use your capped abilities and equip new gear from drops.


I think what people are asking for is less grind, not no grind.

In XI you spent months, in the early years, of grinding crafts, sub jobs and your main just to join the ranks of those competing for the daily to weekly chance to fight something with a .05% drop rate.

It doesn't always have to be all or nothing. Just let us get to the sucky drop rates sooner.

Edited, May 29th 2011 5:46pm by Sephrick
#32 May 29 2011 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
I don't understand the argument that a grind is a bad thing. I have heard people mention "activities" over grinding; I have heard "merit-based" rather than steady grind; and I have heard "fun" over "tedious grind;" but I don't see how or why endgame activities are necessarily different.

With a "grind," you fight monsters and party with people as you learn new abilities and get to equip new gear. With "activities," you fight monsters and party with people as you use your capped abilities and equip new gear from drops.

Essentially they're the same thing, guys. There are instances either way, and a gear grind is no different from a level grind except for the fact that progress in latter is often randomized and correlated with drops. Are endgame events really so fresh, unpredictable, and nuanced compared to moving about the world and learning how to use new abilities?


Where I draw the difference, is there is zero challenge to grinding. In just about every game I've played the best grinding EXP/SP per hour is received by steadily killing things that are below a threatening level. I have yet to see a game reward you with more EXP per hour for challenging yourself, which is fine because it is what it is, thats the numbers work.

What I meant when I said activities, are tougher content that I'm encouraged to go about doing without knowing beforehand that I'm going to succeed. Something thats not just me using my same ability rotation over and over again. Yes endgame instances and such as the exact same every time you go through it, but I'd rather have a repetitive 30 minute loop dungeon with varying types of encounters in it than a 45 second loop of doing the exact same thing to every single mob I have in the area I'm grinding. Sure if I'm not worried about effective use of my time, I can get this experience in the open world, but the game doesn't reward it, and actually makes it quite difficult to do.
____________________________


#33 May 29 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
*
245 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
I don't understand the argument that a grind is a bad thing. I have heard people mention "activities" over grinding; I have heard "merit-based" rather than steady grind; and I have heard "fun" over "tedious grind;" but I don't see how or why endgame activities are necessarily different.

With a "grind," you fight monsters and party with people as you learn new abilities and get to equip new gear. With "activities," you fight monsters and party with people as you use your capped abilities and equip new gear from drops.

Essentially they're the same thing, guys. There are instances either way, and a gear grind is no different from a level grind except for the fact that progress in latter is often randomized and correlated with drops. Are endgame events really so fresh, unpredictable, and nuanced compared to moving about the world and learning how to use new abilities?


i dont mind "grinding" while in Party..............

but FFXIV and party.......oh well u know

Solo grinding is what i hate the most.........is POINTLESS .......sigh ...

by grinding i mean just killing random mobs ............questing for me isnt grinding
____________________________
Tarutaru! Summoner 75 , Ranger 75 ,Samurai 75, Blue mage 75
subs or 40+: Blm/whm/rdm/war/nin/thf
All avatars
WW 100+3
#34 May 29 2011 at 4:24 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
ForceOfMeh wrote:
Well, let me put it this way. Take the difference between painting a fence, and playing some basketball.


The problem with this analogy is that the two examples are too different from each other, and therefore misleading. In an MMO, you're still using almost all of the same rules endgame as you are through a grind, and you're also using the same pool of abilities; both instances also include a grind in one form or another, one from monsters, one from bosses. I do see how endgame is more engaging, however. But my initial point was that the difference is one of degree, not of kind. Basketball and fence-painting is of kind, not degree.

...unless, of course, you play basketball with paintbrushes and fences, in which case, your analogy still works (and I'll form a league with you).
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#35 May 29 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Good
Sage
*
82 posts
ForceOfMeh wrote:

Well, let me put it this way. Take the difference between painting a fence, and playing some basketball.

See, this is the problem with using analogies on the internet.

You do not need to paint a fence before you play basketball.

____________________________
The voweles of the Englysshe tonge weren supposed to shifte yn 1377, bvt Kyng Richarde tolde them to staye the **** where they were.
#36 May 29 2011 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
******
48,703 posts
Screenshot

Fencing.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#37 May 29 2011 at 11:20 PM Rating: Excellent
*
131 posts
Overffxi wrote:
imagine having to "grind" a white mage 1-50 .....

or a "bard"...........lol

this game doesnt support party play as XI does..... and thats too bad...


It will be soon though (hopefully). Thats the whole point of the job system, class and ability rebalancing, and changing enemy drops/stats/traits.
____________________________
#38 May 30 2011 at 12:20 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
351 posts
EmiFox wrote:
ForceOfMeh wrote:

Well, let me put it this way. Take the difference between painting a fence, and playing some basketball.

See, this is the problem with using analogies on the internet.

You do not need to paint a fence before you play basketball.



Hahaha. No, no you certainly don't.

#39 May 30 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Good
***
1,146 posts
But....but...


I don't have a fence!!!


But back to topic.

I hope there will be more jobs for each class. Maybe not right away but in the future.
Also class combinations to unlock specific jobs would be a nice thing.
Get em all! ^^

About the jobs rank = class rank...I'm not sure if I like this or not.
It's true that the way from 1-50 takes a while but I like ranking up different classes.
Leveling up in XI (pre FoV+stuff) was a task of another scale compared to XIV anyways.

I would be fine if, let's say, you get the quest to unlock a job, for example Gladiator and Paladin, at R30.
So you do the quest with a R30 Gladiator and unlock Paladin which would also be R30 and only have 1-2 new abilities.
If you did the quest as R50 GLA your PLD would still only be R30.
Then you continue from that point on and get your PLD skills and abilities and get your AF.

That way, if you wanted to be a full time PLD, you wouldn't have to "grind" GLA to R30 and then PLD from R1-R50. You'd just start as GLA and switch to PLD at R30 to get the last 20 ranks on it.

Or maybe they turn the "physical" rank into class rank and class rank into job rank.
For example you'd have a R50 GLA and unlock a R1 PLD with the same stats and action slots as GLA.
Then you rank up PLD and get new abilities and spells instead of stats.


I definately don't want to rank GLA to R50 and then just get a R50 PLD for free. No matter if I had to get all the abilities and skills with it.

Yoshi-P said:
Quote:
A number of plans made at the beginning of the year will soon be ripe for release. Among these are the shiny new job system (a proper system, mind you, not just renamed classes), an in-game achievement system related to Lodestone character histories, and new modes of transport to address the mobility issue.


I'd be disappointed if this system would just be a new job per class with nothing to do but quest for a few skills.

Edited, May 30th 2011 6:04pm by RidingBean
____________________________

Final Fantasy XI
Server: Quetzalcoatl
Name: Kyana (retired)
Jobs: THF75 PLD70 BST70

#40 May 30 2011 at 10:18 AM Rating: Excellent
***
2,010 posts
Teknoman wrote:
Overffxi wrote:
imagine having to "grind" a white mage 1-50 .....

or a "bard"...........lol

this game doesnt support party play as XI does..... and thats too bad...


It will be soon though (hopefully). Thats the whole point of the job system, class and ability rebalancing, and changing enemy drops/stats/traits.


This is my hope. There is a reason there isn't a whole lot of traditional party play - why bother when you can set your character with any class ability and be completely self-sufficient? It was different in XI because each class was dependant on another for something they lacked. Each class was designed to complement the others, and all three welcomed the "support" jobs to further enhance their effectiveness in their individual roles.

XIV took that away by essentially making all the classes completely interchangeable, and I think they are now seeing that was a very flawed model from the start. It's a shame it took them almost a year after release, but it's a step in the right direction. Now maybe we will start to see the game's shape look more like the things we loved from XI and some of us will return.

Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.
#41 May 30 2011 at 10:35 AM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
Torrence wrote:
Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.


That's a good point: it seems that most people liked the difficulty level and job system of FFXI - the skillchains, the well-defined roles, the numerous camps, etc. - but disliked the hour-plus seeking time that was often needed to pay in order to experience it.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#42 May 30 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Decent
****
6,898 posts
Torrence wrote:
Teknoman wrote:
Overffxi wrote:
imagine having to "grind" a white mage 1-50 .....

or a "bard"...........lol

this game doesnt support party play as XI does..... and thats too bad...


It will be soon though (hopefully). Thats the whole point of the job system, class and ability rebalancing, and changing enemy drops/stats/traits.


This is my hope. There is a reason there isn't a whole lot of traditional party play - why bother when you can set your character with any class ability and be completely self-sufficient? It was different in XI because each class was dependant on another for something they lacked. Each class was designed to complement the others, and all three welcomed the "support" jobs to further enhance their effectiveness in their individual roles.

XIV took that away by essentially making all the classes completely interchangeable, and I think they are now seeing that was a very flawed model from the start. It's a shame it took them almost a year after release, but it's a step in the right direction. Now maybe we will start to see the game's shape look more like the things we loved from XI and some of us will return.


I have a slightly different view on this. I was a big time soloer in XI (I basically solo'd my thief from 50-75 because I just liked it), but I also was in an endgame shell and did all that stuff in a group. So I kinda like both the solo and party mechanics. In XIV, I really do like the ability to put lots of different skills onto my character. I just love that I can make myself completely customizable to any situation. However, you make a valid point in that by doing this, it really limits the uniqueness and fun of party play. I mean, if everyone can be pretty much self-sustainable, what's the point of defined roles? And if everyone is that similar, well, what a boring battle system.

Torrence wrote:
Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.


You're right, when you actually DID go to an effective party in FFXI, it was a thing of beauty. People playing their roles, the XP was pouring in, constant high chains, no downtime, and for a couple hours you just owned that camp. It really was a pretty awesome experience and something I'd really like to see again in XIV. Let's just hope the new job system will allow for that.


Edited, May 30th 2011 12:53pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#43 May 30 2011 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
***
1,004 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.


That's a good point: it seems that most people liked the difficulty level and job system of FFXI - the skillchains, the well-defined roles, the numerous camps, etc. - but disliked the hour-plus seeking time that was often needed to pay in order to experience it.


that was true up until campaign which finally added a decent way to get exp without having to wait very long.

ffxiv already has this as behest, and alot of people burn leves in between. the only thing we need now is a real exp camp so we dont have to wait for leve reset or beehst to start.
#44 May 30 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Default
*
206 posts
Keysofgaruda wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.


That's a good point: it seems that most people liked the difficulty level and job system of FFXI - the skillchains, the well-defined roles, the numerous camps, etc. - but disliked the hour-plus seeking time that was often needed to pay in order to experience it.


that was true up until campaign which finally added a decent way to get exp without having to wait very long.

ffxiv already has this as behest, and alot of people burn leves in between. the only thing we need now is a real exp camp so we dont have to wait for leve reset or beehst to start.


Treespeak Efts 32~38, Boulder Downs Raptors 40~50?
____________________________
#45 May 30 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
**
465 posts
LateReg wrote:
Treespeak Efts 32~38, Boulder Downs Raptors 40~50?

Mountain Peiste (think they're near Riversmeet in Coerthas) are good before raptors, too.
____________________________
Lodestone
#46 May 30 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
bsphil wrote:
Zalim the Charming wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I like it that way. People complain about grind, and now they complain about NOT grinding new jobs? Seriously...
sorry, this comment was win. haha, imagine how mad people would be to regrind again.
Totally. But then again, what else is there to do?


I like leveling up and hope it's not just get to 50, then hit switch to become Paladin. Quests for abilities is a good start. They need carrots to chase aside from gear.

Say what you will about FFXI and Abyssea but they did a very good job of adding goals to go after that were more than just gear, like atma and +1 +2 upgrade items (which is know is just gear but in a semi-new way)
____________________________


#47 May 30 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,004 posts
LateReg wrote:
Keysofgaruda wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.


That's a good point: it seems that most people liked the difficulty level and job system of FFXI - the skillchains, the well-defined roles, the numerous camps, etc. - but disliked the hour-plus seeking time that was often needed to pay in order to experience it.


that was true up until campaign which finally added a decent way to get exp without having to wait very long.

ffxiv already has this as behest, and alot of people burn leves in between. the only thing we need now is a real exp camp so we dont have to wait for leve reset or beehst to start.


Treespeak Efts 32~38, Boulder Downs Raptors 40~50?


ya i guess what i meant to say was, a real party search feature. but they do also need more camps. those spots dont support alot of parties, not that there is alot of people playing yet. when ps3 release comes, they better have more camps available.
#48 May 30 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
*
206 posts
Keysofgaruda wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Keysofgaruda wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.


That's a good point: it seems that most people liked the difficulty level and job system of FFXI - the skillchains, the well-defined roles, the numerous camps, etc. - but disliked the hour-plus seeking time that was often needed to pay in order to experience it.


that was true up until campaign which finally added a decent way to get exp without having to wait very long.

ffxiv already has this as behest, and alot of people burn leves in between. the only thing we need now is a real exp camp so we dont have to wait for leve reset or beehst to start.


Treespeak Efts 32~38, Boulder Downs Raptors 40~50?


ya i guess what i meant to say was, a real party search feature. but they do also need more camps. those spots dont support alot of parties, not that there is alot of people playing yet. when ps3 release comes, they better have more camps available.


Very true. Neither spot is optimal if more than one group is there.
____________________________
#49 May 30 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
351 posts
Louiscool wrote:
I like leveling up and hope it's not just get to 50, then hit switch to become Paladin. Quests for abilities is a good start. They need carrots to chase aside from gear.

Say what you will about FFXI and Abyssea but they did a very good job of adding goals to go after that were more than just gear, like atma and +1 +2 upgrade items (which is know is just gear but in a semi-new way)


You say you like leveling up and you like Abyssea, but yet, essentially what Abyssea does is remove the lengthy grind. You could take any job from 30 to 90 in a single night or two. Abyssea is mostly about gear when you really get down to it. Grinding is no longer a substantial barrier to getting into endgame.

And it's not like there's going to be zero prep work into improving your job in FFXIV. There are quests that have to be undertaken to unlock the abilities of the job, so it's not just handed to you on a plate.

For months now, people have complained there isn't enough of an endgame in FFXIV to stay entertained. It's unfathomable to me that instead of an endgame, you would choose to level up another 50 levels and wait even more, once you got there, for your still non-existent endgame.

Enough with the leveling. Let's just get this endgame started.

#50 May 30 2011 at 5:39 PM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
ForceOfMeh wrote:
It's unfathomable to me that instead of an endgame, you would choose to level up another 50 levels and wait even more, once you got there, for your still non-existent endgame.


Well of course that's unfathomable: nobody has made that statement.

If somebody wants a new class to level, it does not mean that they want it at the expense of any other content... you're committing the fallacy of black-and-white thinking, and then turning it into a straw-man to attack. XD
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#51 May 30 2011 at 11:44 PM Rating: Good
*
131 posts
Keysofgaruda wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Torrence wrote:
Say what you want - the only complaint that people had about XI's grind wasn't even about the grind - it was about the wait. I have never met one person who said they genuinely hated partying in XI. It was a good model, and they can recapture that magic here as well. They just need to go back to the drawing board and stop trying to force systems that don't work.


That's a good point: it seems that most people liked the difficulty level and job system of FFXI - the skillchains, the well-defined roles, the numerous camps, etc. - but disliked the hour-plus seeking time that was often needed to pay in order to experience it.


that was true up until campaign which finally added a decent way to get exp without having to wait very long.

ffxiv already has this as behest, and alot of people burn leves in between. the only thing we need now is a real exp camp so we dont have to wait for leve reset or beehst to start.


They are supposed to be adjusting enemies for:

Enemy distribution adjustments Examination of free-ranging enemy distribution
 Changes aimed at clearly defined territories and secure travel routes


Along with adding more beast tribe monsters to their respective regions. Either way, I think they are still focused on providing people with mobile exp, so while camping in one spot may be viable, I think they want the players to be able to travel/explore and exp at the same time.
____________________________
« Previous 1 2
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 12 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (12)