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French and German localization - a waste of time and money?Follow

#1 May 31 2011 at 7:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I just took a look at the geraman and french official forums.
There's like 2 posts total in the battle sections for each language version.

At this point, shouldn't SE simply abandon both versions to shorten development cycles and save money?
#2 May 31 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Decent
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The amount of time it takes to localize English updates is probably the same as German and French. Dropping them wouldn't get us content any faster.

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#3 May 31 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Decent
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A fabulous solution! So we just have to scrap the English version as well, and...
#4 May 31 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
A fabulous solution! So we just have to scrap the English version as well, and...

Why not! 99% of players on my server are Japanese anyway!
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#5 May 31 2011 at 8:35 AM Rating: Decent
Actually I think you all might have a winner of an idea....

Imagine playing a JMMO the way it was ment to be played?

Seriously everyone complains about lack of content leading to boredom/canceling accounts having the game entirely in JP would add a new almost impossible layer of complexity. Creating a Char and doing the first few leves would take months of trial and error.... years if you wanted to do a good job and learn the language.... heck SE could start an academic program and creating advertising centered around that...

"Buy FFXIV and after successfully reaching end game you graduate with a degree in Japanese, all this can be yours for $29.99 and a low monthly subscription"

Also I think the requests from the player base would dry up pretty **** fast... how many of you would be eager to get new jobs, content if you knew it was all going to be in JP?
#6 May 31 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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Playing a game in a foreign language isn't nearly as hard as you make it sound. When I was a kid, I finished King Quest III without any guide or FAQ (They didn't exist way back!)... and I'm French native speaker who had to play with a French<>English dictionary open.

I have finished Dragon Force 3 with most characters, Grandia and the Shining Force 3 games on Saturn without a FAQ or guide or whatever. I registered and played Phantasy Star Online: Blue Burst on Japanese-only servers.

It doesn't take years or even months to get it, you'd figure the gist of it in days and would learn to recognize some symbols, icons and words at first, and could eventually say "Oh, this general has centaur knights and archers, awesome." **********, he doesn't have Sonic Boom" without being to really read what's in front of you.
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#7 May 31 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
Playing a game in a foreign language isn't nearly as hard as you make it sound. When I was a kid, I finished King Quest III without any guide or FAQ

But King's Quest III isn't an MMO where you interact with internets.

Edited, May 31st 2011 12:27pm by Riniaru
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#8 May 31 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
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Riniaru wrote:
But King's Quest III isn't an MMO where you interact with internets.

But interacting with the internets won't force you to learn a new language, as you can simply opt to stick with people that speak your own.

My point was that learning a UI and how to play a game doesn't require nearly as much reading as most people think. You'd miss out on the story, though.
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#9 May 31 2011 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
My point was that learning a UI and how to play a game doesn't require nearly as much reading as most people think. You'd miss out on the story, though.


Yeah and that's supposed to be the one thing that sets FF MMO's apart from the crowd... fantastic point and idea... >.>
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#10 May 31 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
Cloe you are clearly far more linguistically gifted than I am. It took me three hours to write this reply and im English :)

Seriously though removing French and German localization is not a good idea. SE and its's products need to improve their communication not diminish it and if any of you think that the OP's idea was a good one why don't we take it a step further and remove English and Japanese and use a universal binary language of 0's and 1's

011101011101 110001011010 11101110001001 0101110101 0101010111001 0001100 11001011100101010 100011000111001100 1110010101000 101001001010001 1000010010100000 110100101 1010010101111 10010 100101 001

Hopefully the forum admins don't understand binary cause if they do I am so getting my account suspended for writing the above. >.>....

Super Special utterly fantastic nowin prize to the first person to PM me the very rude message I just wrote.

Azh

ohh btw I just went to post my rude binary message and the forum refused to post it as it was apparently and I quote "Ultimately silly", I **** you not. Kudos to the dev that created that "were not posting this message it was clearly written by a raving lunatic" message it made me lol and unfortunately, in my case at least it might also be true (slow day at work).



Edited, May 31st 2011 1:21pm by FlogginaDeadHorse
#11 May 31 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Default
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Rinsui = Troll?

I imagine there's a good enough player base in France/Germany given the first ever alpha test of the game was shown in Germany if I remember right, at one of their game conferences.

They also sent Yoshi and team to Europe first for interviews before NA even got a chance to interview the team for upcoming changes.

So no, it's not a waste of time.



Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't translate the voice overs into German or French. Just the text dialogue. I imagine that was their way of saving resources.
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#12 May 31 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Yeah. There are enough German players I know. We on Selbina are an all German Linkshell and much of my old German Final Fantasy XI Buddys play the game. But we mostly write in the English Forum because we think that the developers will read this forum more frequently.
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#13 May 31 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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My first language is french but often times I just read the English forums. I'm sure I'm not the only one that does that ^^;
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#14 Jun 01 2011 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
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My native language is German but I rather not play the German versions for various reasons.

#1
In the past there were fewer localized versions of games, so you had to play the English version anyways.

#2
English is the global language most players understand and use for international conversation (FF's auto translate function is a great and unique feature though).

#3
Localized names and places often sound ridiculous.

#4
Most databases and big forums are in English. People got used to working with them gue to missing or bad localizations and just don't want to change again.

That and the fact that you'll find the most information and news on the net in English is the main reason most people prefer English over their native language.
It just makes things a bit easier and you don't get the original story altered a second time because of bad translations.

EDIT:
That's for the normal use of forums and the game of course. It's something different with support.
Getting support in your native language makes things alot easier.
So don't jump on the conclusion, that just because there are not many posts in the French and German lodestone forums there are not many players from these areas.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 8:15am by RidingBean
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#15 Jun 01 2011 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:
Playing a game in a foreign language isn't nearly as hard as you make it sound. When I was a kid, I finished King Quest III without any guide or FAQ (They didn't exist way back!)... and I'm French native speaker who had to play with a French<>English dictionary open.

I have finished Dragon Force 3 with most characters, Grandia and the Shining Force 3 games on Saturn without a FAQ or guide or whatever. I registered and played Phantasy Star Online: Blue Burst on Japanese-only servers.

It doesn't take years or even months to get it, you'd figure the gist of it in days and would learn to recognize some symbols, icons and words at first, and could eventually say "Oh, this general has centaur knights and archers, awesome." **********, he doesn't have Sonic Boom" without being to really read what's in front of you.

Wouldn't Japenese be much more difficult to translate? I find I can do OK with basic understanding and operation of things in German/French/Spanish.. They can be similar to English or maybe my brain can just relate to it. You start bringing in Russian it get's much harder and when you bring in things like Japanese/Chinese/etc.. I'm screwed. My brain doesn't relate to the pictogram form (or whatever the proper terminology is) of those languages well.

このフォーラムは日本語でご利用ください。 - Wouldn't have a single freaking clue what it was pertaining to except in context.
Welcome to the English forums!
Bienvenue sur les forums francophones ! - Could work with it.
Willkommen im deutschsprachigen Forum! - Could work with it.
#16 Jun 01 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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MrTalos wrote:
Wouldn't Japenese be much more difficult to translate? I find I can do OK with basic understanding and operation of things in German/French/Spanish.. They can be similar to English or maybe my brain can just relate to it. You start bringing in Russian it get's much harder and when you bring in things like Japanese/Chinese/etc.. I'm screwed. My brain doesn't relate to the pictogram form (or whatever the proper terminology is) of those languages well.

Every child learn to recognize words before he learns to read. You still have that ability, but it's been sleeping for a while. I spent enough time in a Japanese LS on FFXI to recognize what characters actually were my character's name in Japanese, what "yes" and "no" looks like, but I can't really say I can read Japanese.

When playing a foreign language game, like when I played Grandia, it's often a question of Trial and Error. I can't really tell this spell is the BaBoom! spell unless I cast it once, but cast it often enough, and I'll be able to recognize where it is in all 4 of my character's magic list.

You learn that the top option is attack, the second is defend, the third is "Maho" (magic) and the fourth is run away, and you commit that to memory. Even when playing an english game, once you figured out which button to press to jump, you don't need to read it on screen anymore to know, so it simply makes the learning process a bit longer and harder.

I played Grandia 1 on both Saturn (JP) and PSX (English) and despite the fact I couldn't understand a thing about the story (I can't read japanaese at all, even "simple" Japanese like the one used in Grandia), when I replayed it, I was actually really close to having pieced the story together by my own, just like how a child can still "read" comics by looking at the images and make up their own stories along the way (Ever had a younger brother and sister do that?)

Games like Dragon Force 2 and Shining Force 3 are Kanji-spam, though, since they're more mature and political than Grandia, and just looking at the dialog was hurting my eyes. Grandia is a "child's game" so it uses the simpler Hiragana and Katakana for the most part. (There's fewer characters in total to learn in Hiragana than there is to learn in english. 26 character, capital and regular, cursive and block letters totals 104 characters. There's actually only 48 Hiragana characters that forms the entirety of their language. The 48 or so Katakana characters are used for foreign words. Kanji is just the equivalent of a bunch of well-known abbreviations.)

My main problem with japanese is they don't separate words by spaces (unless writing in romanji to make it easier on noobs like me). So when you're new and try to read it, it becomes very hard to figure out when words end and such. There are key characters that represent things like "his" "and" "not", that can be helpful, but beyond that, my ability to split up a sentence is nearly non-existent.

---
After long years without practice, I'll try to decipher that line you wrote:

この "kono" : Pretty much means "The"
フォーラム "forum" (Written in Engrish!) : Forum
は "ha" : Probably a determinant, not sure which. "Of", I guess?
日本語 Kanji for "Nihongo" (Japanese Language). Can't really figure the kanji, but the first is Sun and second is roots, if I'm not mistaken. I suppose the three together actually mean something like "Land of the Rising Run's People's Language".
で "de" : Probably a determinant, not sure which again.
ご利用ください : I give up because this is taking me forever.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 10:39am by Docent42
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#17 Jun 01 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:
After long years without practice, I'll try to decipher that line you wrote:

この "kono" : Pretty much means "The"
フォーラム "forum" (Written in Engrish!) : Forum
は "ha" : Probably a determinant, not sure which. "Of", I guess?
日本語 Kanji for "Nihongo" (Japanese Language). Can't really figure the kanji, but the first is Sun and second is roots, if I'm not mistaken. I suppose the three together actually mean something like "Land of the Rising Run's People's Language".
で "de" : Probably a determinant, not sure which again.
ご利用ください : I give up because this is taking me forever.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 10:39am by Docent42

Not too shabby. All 4 (Japense, English, French & German) were the little welcome blurbs for each language on the FFXIV Forums.

Think they are all welcoming the reader to it's respective language forum. I know (as I understand it) that's what the German one says because I at least know those words but the French and Japanese versions I am just assuming.

Docent42 wrote:
ご利用ください : I give up because this is taking me forever.

Google translate says it is "Please use" which would fit with the rest of it.

Edited, Jun 1st 2011 11:33am by MrTalos
#18 Jun 07 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Default
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このフォーラムは日本語でご利用ください

would read konofuoramu wa nihongo de go (2 kanjis i cannot read) kudasai

kono = this
fuoramu in katakana is simply forum
wa = is
nihongo = Japanese (Ni is Sun, Hon is book, Nihon = Japan, Go = Language)
de = particle denoting either a place for doing something (i.e. "Mcdonald de tabemasho" = let's eat at Mcdonald) or to denote a language to do/say something in (i.e. "ohirugohan wa eigode nandesuka?" mean what is Ohirugohan in English)

go is an okurikana, a pre/suffix to the kanji. I know they can be used to denote which form the kanji is in (i.e. 読めます (Yomemasu) mean readable while 読みます (Yomimasu) simply mean read)

I do not know how to read the next 2 kanjis (It's been 6 years since I last studied Japanese :/), but from my Mandarin Class, I know the second kanji mean "use"

kudasai = please

With my limited 3 years of Japanese classes, I'd probably translate that as "This forum is for Japanese language, please use".

While it is feasible to play a Japanese Game with a dictionary and basic knowledge of Japanese sentence structure (Subject Object Verb instead of Subject Verb Object like in English or Chinese), unless you know how to read the Kanji or the game provide you with romaji/furikana, you'll have trouble looking them up in a dictionary.
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#19 Jun 07 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Suph wrote:
With my limited 3 years of Japanese classes, I'd probably translate that as "This forum is for Japanese language, please use".

"Please use Japanese in this forum.", is what it would translate to.
"This forum is for Japanese language", has a slightly different meaning.
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#20 Jun 10 2011 at 4:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

While it is feasible to play a Japanese Game with a dictionary and basic knowledge of Japanese sentence structure (Subject Object Verb instead of Subject Verb Object like in English or Chinese), unless you know how to read the Kanji or the game provide you with romaji/furikana, you'll have trouble looking them up in a dictionary.


Brings up an odd question. Before the invention of Romaji, how DID the Japanese look up words in a dictionary? I'm going to go out and assume they had some sort of dictionary (how else would they keep all the different words straight?). Given that people who use Roman alphabets can make a good guess as to where to check in the dictionary, I'm at a loss to explain how one would look up Japanese words.

Edited, Jun 10th 2011 6:17am by Caia
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#21 Jun 10 2011 at 4:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Ordered by number of strokes and radicals (recurring elements of kanji composites).
Just as easy.
#22 Jun 10 2011 at 4:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Caia wrote:
Brings up an odd question. Before the invention of Romaji, how DID the Japanese look up words in a dictionary? I'm going to go out and assume they had some sort of dictionary (how else would they keep all the different words straight?). Given that people who use Roman alphabets can make a good guess as to where to check in the dictionary, I'm at a loss to explain how one would look up Japanese words.

I'd assume they'd have them ordered using the Japanese Alphabet (A, Ka, Sa, Ta, Na, Ha, Ma, Ya, Ra, Wa).

More info: http://babelhut.com/languages/japanese/a-mnemonic-device-to-remember-japanese-dictionary-order/
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