Thanks for the response but ya that's my major concern with auto-battle it doesn't really fix the true problems behind XIV and that's how underdeveloped everything appears. XIV Abilities in a nutshell
I made this quick graph to attempt to illustrate how I see the XIV "class" system, I only included melee and mage since if I"m correct you are unable to actually attach any abilities or traits from land/hand to melee/mage. Basically with XIV all I see is, you have abilities with 7 classes and you can mix and match them except for maybe 2-3 unique abilities for that class. Then you have Guild marks which don't really have a wide range of abilities to offer and don't add much flavor to customization.
Now I was trying out this f2p game for fun since it mentioned the ability to change classes on the fly, it kind of made me think of XIV in a sense. Granted it does play like a wow clone for the most part however there is a light that shines through the games ability concept that I wish XIV had developed. The game in question is Eden Eternal. Eden Eternal
Basically upon character creation just like in XIV you are given the choice of a trait/guardian. Just like how XIV is now you can't change your guardian/trait once you choose it however unlike XIV the trait you choose at the start does effect your character's starting stats. Something as simple as this is a concept I wish SE had added on day 1 for guardian's. It would've at least made them something that advanced the concept of customization rather then being flavor text.
At the start of the game you are able to choose Defense or Magic DPS. Upon choosing you become either a Warrior or Magician.
This game also has two leveling concepts, your main level and your class level, your class level can't go above your main level so you can't have 10/12 it'll only go up to 10/10. When you change classes you aren't gimped but each class can only wear a certain armor type cloth/light/heavy armors. However now this is a big deal to some but when you change classes your ability keys are unique for each class so you don't have to change back and forth abilities upon adding abilities, you also have specific slots for cloth/light/heavy so you don't have to change into your gear upon changing to a class that uses a different armor type. Unless XIV has changed recently I know they allowed you to keep abilities on that are unusable but I don't think they went as far as to have unique bars for each class so when you change your 1-0 is different from each class without having to take the time to change it.
Now in this game each class type has 3 classes to go with it, all classes can go to 60 and each class offers a unique aspect. To be blunt as possible about it the game works like this.
Each class has common skills, which are skills the classes shared within the archetype. Then the specific classes each learn class skills and have class trees that are unique to that class and only take effect for that class. Each level you obtain a knowledge point that you add to the skill tree to advance your customization.
Upon reaching class 10 you obtain a Certificate which is a unique concept that you can equip to any class allowing you to make use of traits from other classes. It's also possible to obtain additional effects if you attach certain certificate combinations together. At most you can have I believe 8 certificates by level 60.
Classes obtain a certificate every 10 levels so each class has 6 certificates however it does work like the first 3 certificates are tier 1's and the other 3 are tier 2's of the ones you already have though, I do believe it's possible to attach 1 and 2 together.
Overall you have 15 classes with 6 certificates each for a total of 90 certificates. With 8 certificates slots that leaves a wide range of variables to mix and match and determine what additional effects you can get for your class.
Now to compare the two it's basically
-abilities from other classes
-Class specific abilities
To me that's all I see ability wise now with Eden Eternal I see this
-Specific to Archetype
-Specific to class
--Class Skills (Unique Skill tree per class)
-Usable by any archetype
--Certificates (90 certificates with 8 slots available)
If XIV had started out with something like this I think more people would play, one of the major reasons I was turned off by the same was because I didn't really feel the sense of customization. There weren't enough options to be unique and in the end you really didn't have to many options to actually make yourself stand out.
What really bums me out about this post is that if you look at the amount of information written, I had to spend more time explaining the ability system in Eden Eternal then i did with XIV. While sure XIV has ability points to use to attach abilities and Eden Eternal you're free to use all abilities attached to the class it doesn't evade the point that XIV just lacks true customization substance.
The simple enough fix would be this
-Create Job traits that are more potent on main class but can be used n other classes
--EX. Iron Tempest trait that improves wind damage by 10% for marauder but only 5% if you aren't a marauder
-Expand land/hand so that you can actually obtain traits or even abilities that can be used by melee/mage. (If a player chooses to level a land/hand but also wants to melee they should have the option to attach useful abilities from land/hand that they learned through their travels to enhance their battle potency)
--EX a Botanist uses a sickle and an axe for their trade. A simple enough trait could be "Blade Care" -Lowers durability lost from using other arms
--EX 2. A Miner uses muscles and strength to break rocks and find ores so they should have a traits like "Strong Armed" which increases the player's STR and ATT
--EX 3. A Fishermman knows a lot about sealife so through their travels they should obtain a trait like "Fish exploitation" which increases all damage dealt to aquatic type mobs by 5%
Off the top of my head I can't think of any abilities for crafting but there is the ability to pull it off.
But ya, it's just when I saw the system for Eden Eternal I was kind of shocked with how they created a simple yet engaging way to work a proper class system. If SE developers took the time to analyze what Eden Eternal did right I would be positive that they would be able to enhance the armory system to a concept that allowed a true sense of customization and uniqueness.
Also by no means is this an endorsement for another MMO, this is just a simple comparison from a similarity I saw through another game. On a final note, while SE is planning on having "jobs" for their classes I feel like that will fall flat fast. To me I don't understand the points of having 1 job per class to start it off, it doesn't really add any sense of customization and feels more like Ragnorak Online where you enter the next class tier rather then a sub class to enhance your class.
Though I do see a potential in the "job system" at the same time I don't think the execution is right. If they wanted to do it properly for Mage/Melee I would've done this
Lancer======Dragon Knight/Dragoon Defense/Hate Control
Archer======Ranger/Sniper Enfeebling/Crit Rate up
Pugilist====Monk/Martial Artist Defensive magical/Offensive physical
Conjurer====x mage "specific magic focus allowing increased potency of one magic type but decreasing other elemnets"
Thaumaturge=Curser/Enlightened Dark based/Light based potency
I think the above would be a proper introduction of classes as it stands now when I see how they are implementing it, it's as if they have no idea how they wish to expand it, if the idea was thought out clearly they would have created a concept in which they had created more job options, dual job options, triple job options and such like let's say a Red Mage is the love child of obtaining the proper Conjurer/Thaumaturge enfeeble traits along with the skill of a Gladiators Sword.
I am interested in seeing the system once it's released however I don't see much uniqueness coming from it and while some may say because it's just starting the system I would respond that most everything in XIV feels like an unfinished project where they would just be better off focusing on one concept at a time and fully developing it rather then making a bare concept and releasing it to the masses. If they wanted to do that they should create a test server to have us test the concepts rather then release it as a finalized content. And yes I do know that they do have a test server but the problem right now is while they don't want to do a wipe and try and make the game work it would be a smarter move to create a test server to actually test things out rather then treating the whole community like guinea pigs.
One thing that I think would've worked better in the long run is if they had created like 3 specific servers to test out different concepts to see what works best in each light. In terms of auto-battle they could of had one test server without the change, another test server conceptualizing the idea of enhancing the idea of stamina and it's uses and another server testing auto-battle. Along with those test they could've centered certain areas to test out dungeon concepts, materia concept and everything at it's bare bones so people could get a feel of how it works rather then releasing it to the masses.
Look I do hope that this game can succeed and become as fun as XI, since I really do enjoy playing that game but it just seems like everything that's been done so far hasn't really added anything to the game that would bring the same joy as XI. Edited, Jul 4th 2011 6:11pm by Airget