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Why it won't work no matter whatFollow

#52 Jun 13 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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TonberyHunter wrote:
tpgsoldier wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
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The only thing I don't understand is how content flows so quickly for other games (even ffxi) yet FFXIV unfolds at a seemingly stagnant pace. I guess it has to do with the fact that the core of the game was never ready for release, but its still shocking how slow it has evolved in nearly a year.


Yes, there is a tiny bit of hope that there are actually good, convincing reasons for the ridiculously long delay.
Not that I would believe it, though.


Its sad to say but EVEN the producers letters are being delayed now.


I'm only assuming here, but it is starting to seem as if there are issues with the original code and the code for the new content that causes delay. But ya, both info and patches seem to be relatively slow, last Lodestone info is over 20 days old. That is not a short time frame considering how much work need to be done.

@KuroGawatwo : i agree SE could have had this game finished some time back if it were main focus on the agenda. leading to the question "Why is it not?"

Edited, Jun 13th 2011 2:57pm by TonberyHunter


you also need to take into consideration that we dont know how many people are actually working on each aspect of the game.

you also need to to take into account that the changes they are doing are basically scrapping any and all work that was done when the game was released, so there working from the ground up. it's as if there building a new game which takes time. alot of time. so i wouldn't expect many letters or lodestone posts, unless you just want to read about what we already know over and over.
#53 Jun 13 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Default
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KuroGawatwo wrote:
In my opinion, saying it's a double edged sword isn't really correct. It's letting them off the hook a bit for releasing a half made crappy game a year early.

Yoshi has said himself that there are multiple people working on multiple teams.

SE is huge and if it cared it'd have the resources to fix both the battle system and UI whilst adding content.

It's not a priority, which is bizarre as it's their flagship franchise being damaged by terrible PR.

True story.


I wasn't letting them off the hook. I am saying that in order for them to actually FIX the game, they have to decide which avenue to go down. Avenue A, where they focus on gorundwork and neglect content, or avenue B where they focus on content and neglect groundwork. I completely realize they released the game in a bad state, and I certainly have not forgotten that. I'm talking about the present and the future of the game.

While there are multiple teams being worked on, I think it's abundantly clear (through producer letters and updates thus far) that the groundwork is their priority far before content. Also, there is actually a fairly large team working on this. The reason it isn't better is because the game is already hemorrhaging money and adding MORE people into that mix is a recipe for disaster. I think SE is at the point where they are letting the team try and fix it and not messing with it. Either it will pan out and the game will eventually succeed, or it won't. They could have very easily pulled the plug already on this game, so clearly there IS still a good deal of support for it from SE.
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#54 Jun 13 2011 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
9 months into this games life, and here are the positive aspects: Opening cut scenes are fantastic, great graphics (but not so much the copy-paste), and leves are something to do on limited play time.

I quit back in December, only to come back update to update, even logged in 2-3 days ago, and the game feels no different then when I left it back then. So 6 months later, nothings really changed minus a few UI tweaks which were half-assed in my opinion, along with the market wards and whatever else they updated, everything was done well, but not great. So all this time, and the game really hasn't transformed into anything decent. As for the PS3 release, no one's going to shell out 50-60$ for this game, especially with the reviews it's received.

They've dug themselves a massive hole, it's not really attracting new players, and the forums here have nothing pertaining to the actual game. Sure you can argue the official forums do, but 3/4's of those suggestions are flat out retarded. So I figure in 2 years I can come back and get a different feel for this game.
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#55 Jun 13 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
9 months into this games life, and here are the positive aspects: Opening cut scenes are fantastic, great graphics (but not so much the copy-paste), and leves are something to do on limited play time.

I quit back in December, only to come back update to update, even logged in 2-3 days ago, and the game feels no different then when I left it back then. So 6 months later, nothings really changed minus a few UI tweaks which were half-assed in my opinion, along with the market wards and whatever else they updated, everything was done well, but not great. So all this time, and the game really hasn't transformed into anything decent. As for the PS3 release, no one's going to shell out 50-60$ for this game, especially with the reviews it's received.

They've dug themselves a massive hole, it's not really attracting new players, and the forums here have nothing pertaining to the actual game. Sure you can argue the official forums do, but 3/4's of those suggestions are flat out retarded. So I figure in 2 years I can come back and get a different feel for this game.

unfortunately your right, not much has changed at all except the dying servers. however, id imagine that if the earthquake disaster and golden MONTH didnt happen then we might have seen these up coming game changes at least a month, if not, two months earlier.
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#56 Jun 13 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Good
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I know that comparisons with XI are not really useful, but...the main reason for most ppl who started XIV, was the really awesome experience they had with XI, so there is a reason to not turn your back on XIV yet.

The Original Story in XI was meh...to be honest, it was even worse than the current XIV Main Story. Nation Missions(not even til Rank 5 at release) were boring and it took forever to really provide that feeling of "Your important" and "You will serve a greater good".

Even the Zilart Missions started off pretty meh...it got a lot better towards the end though. The real highlight for me and as far as I know for a LOT of other XI players was Chains of Promathia. The Story was awesome, could compete with dozens of good Offline RPGs, the challenge of getting it done was really awesome and each and every chapter really gave you the feeling of there is something big coming and you are the one to stop that and not just you, but a group of people, since you alone couldn't get it done(which is the purpose of an MMO).

Zilart saw the day of light 1 year after release, CoP around 2 years or later(can't even remember). And now consider that with XIV release.
I know its lame to always pick that excuse when it comes to the horrible launch of XIV, but just think of what XI became EVEN with such a horrible launch and now everybody is certain XIV can't pull off the same thing.

Well I still do and I'm still willing to give SE the chance of proving they can pull it off again. If you played XI right from the JP release you would have witnessed the exact same thing and with quitting it completely and forever, just think off what you missed out on knowing what XI became later on. If I see small to no progress by the end of this year, I will be ****** and I will be rage quitting here and there, but its still not the end. I will check back at a later time and see if its better then, cause I still do care and I still want XIV to become what XI became.
#57 Jun 13 2011 at 3:26 PM Rating: Good
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Shezard wrote:
I know that comparisons with XI are not really useful, but...the main reason for most ppl who started XIV, was the really awesome experience they had with XI, so there is a reason to not turn your back on XIV yet.

The Original Story in XI was meh...to be honest, it was even worse than the current XIV Main Story. Nation Missions(not even til Rank 5 at release) were boring and it took forever to really provide that feeling of "Your important" and "You will serve a greater good".

Even the Zilart Missions started off pretty meh...it got a lot better towards the end though. The real highlight for me and as far as I know for a LOT of other XI players was Chains of Promathia. The Story was awesome, could compete with dozens of good Offline RPGs, the challenge of getting it done was really awesome and each and every chapter really gave you the feeling of there is something big coming and you are the one to stop that and not just you, but a group of people, since you alone couldn't get it done(which is the purpose of an MMO).

Zilart saw the day of light 1 year after release, CoP around 2 years or later(can't even remember). And now consider that with XIV release.
I know its lame to always pick that excuse when it comes to the horrible launch of XIV, but just think of what XI became EVEN with such a horrible launch and now everybody is certain XIV can't pull off the same thing.

Well I still do and I'm still willing to give SE the chance of proving they can pull it off again. If you played XI right from the JP release you would have witnessed the exact same thing and with quitting it completely and forever, just think off what you missed out on knowing what XI became later on. If I see small to no progress by the end of this year, I will be ****** and I will be rage quitting here and there, but its still not the end. I will check back at a later time and see if its better then, cause I still do care and I still want XIV to become what XI became.


Actually, there is a reason to turn your back on FFXIV. The reason is that FFXI is still as fun as ever (if not better than ever). We can always come back to IV later if it turns out good.

#58 Jun 13 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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My whole end-game (lol XIV end-game), LS has been playing rift for a month now.
These are folks that were all in. They tried hard to stay busy, leveling crafts and all suppporting sub crafts a few have multiple 50 crafts, ranked up DoLs, and the guy with the least amount of capped battlecraft still has 3 capped. They sat around HQ+2/3 all our weapons and armor, chasing all the NMs and mini NM's, collecting marks, abilities, etc. All the mini-quests, all the job and story quests available.

We ran out of **** to do, period.

There is nothing fun about doing fail leves for the 5th time in a row, nothing fun about grinding another craft to 50, or even 35 for that matter.

Nothing fun about running all over the place, trying to save anima (you know, that lazy *** excuse of transportation design we have been stuck with for 9 months), nothing fun about watching everyone you know vanish from the game bit by bit, nothing fun about waiting and waiting, and holding out hope every 90 days "this next patch" will make the game worth logging in to.

This patch is going to make or break this game. It may break it for good, or until the PS3 release breathes new life into it (providing there is content by then), but I am convinced this patch is a cornerstone moment.
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#59 Jun 13 2011 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
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The problem at this point with FFXIV is that the bar to judge online games have raised significantly, it isn't the bad game it was at launch, the problem is that there are better options out there, some of the for the same price, and some of the even cheaper.

Have any of you guys tried League of Legends(LoL)? that game is truly free, not the kind of free to play, pay to enjoy, the kind of things that you can buy with money have close to no impact in the game play, and it is fun, really fun.

FFXIV is racing against those of games in the current market, if it can ever shine or not doesn't really matter, the thing is, as the OP said, that many of us don't care anymore.

Regards.

Ken
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#60 Jun 13 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
Mithsavvy wrote:
Actually, there is a reason to turn your back on FFXIV. The reason is that FFXI is still as fun as ever (if not better than ever). We can always come back to IV later if it turns out good.


I have nothing against your opinion, but Abyssea killed FFXI for me. Call me crazy but I liked the grind. 100K+xp/hr? No thanks. I watched my roommate leveling in Abyssea after I quit. It made me wanna cry.
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#61 Jun 13 2011 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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kenage wrote:
Have any of you guys tried League of Legends(LoL)? that game is truly free, not the kind of free to play, pay to enjoy, the kind of things that you can buy with money have close to no impact in the game play, and it is fun, really fun.


It's also not an MMORPG, but more of an online match-up for Warcraft-inspired PvP. >_>

And, if it's free, it's not really competing with FFXIV anyway, since someone could easily afford both...
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#62 Jun 13 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Caia wrote:
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I just have to say, seriously this again? FFXIII sold very well. It sold about as same amount copies as any other FF titles, around 6 mil. Thats pretty good industry wide. FFXIII-2 seems to be drumming up a good amount of interest with its E3 showing aswell. Yes I get it, there is a very loud group of people on the internet who hate it and will tell anyone who will listen why, but really we have no idea how many people that is, and I think its pretty foolish to assume its the vast majority.


Yeah, but you leave out a few facts. It sold 6.3 million copies on two consoles. If it was as popular as prior games had been, we'd expect for it to sell many more copies than that. In terms of market penetration, it did very poorly when compared with past FF titles.


However, it's also worth pointing out that it sold 6.3 million copies on two consoles with a combined installed base smaller than the PS2 had when FF12 was released. And that's ignoring overlap between the two systems' user bases.
#63 Jun 13 2011 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
kenage wrote:
Have any of you guys tried League of Legends(LoL)? that game is truly free, not the kind of free to play, pay to enjoy, the kind of things that you can buy with money have close to no impact in the game play, and it is fun, really fun.


It's also not an MMORPG, but more of an online match-up for Warcraft-inspired PvP. >_>

And, if it's free, it's not really competing with FFXIV anyway, since someone could easily afford both...
True, but each person just have so much free time, and when you need to choose what to play automatically all the options go against each other.

My point was really more about fun-factor/cost ratio which I consider is the week point of FFXIV, you can't expect a game to be successful if it isn't fun enough and people even need to pay for it.

Ken
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#64 Jun 14 2011 at 2:31 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Some of those things you mentioned are actually things I liked about ffxi however. The fact that the developers aren't holding your hand every step of the way was nice. Having a directional arrow that shows me exactly where to go and what to do is great sometimes, but all the time (in games like WoW and Rift) it just becomes a matter of routine and is boring.


Turn it off. Optional content is optional.

BartelX wrote:
Personally, I'd rather have heaps of content with a backbone that might be flawed but still works well (ffxi model), than a game with almost no content but a great core system in place (what ffxiv AIMS to do, although who knows when). I'm not saying I disagree that those basic elements are important... but for me, content is just AS important, if not more so.


Little pig, little pig, let me in... It doesn't matter what you fill your house with if it is made of straw. You need a good foundation before you add content. Point blank.

KaneKitty wrote:
Yeah, I thought that WoW succeeded for the opposite reason: for the fact that even the worst, stupidest player can advance consistently and wind up with decent gear by queuing for self-creating parties that teleport them to the instances.

Please tell me this is a poor attempt at sarcasm. Any idiot can afk in abyssea and get 60 levels in a few hours with enough currency to get a decent set of gear too. What is the difference?

Make a poll asking if players prefer running an instance on their own time or if they would rather be forced to show up on 21 hour timer where they only have to pay attention for 30 seconds every 30 minutes. My guess is that people would prefer instanced content at a ratio somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 million to a few hundred thousand.

KaneKitty wrote:
In WoW, you gain reputation through instances, levels through instances, gear through instances, and later, justice points through instances, and endgame gear through instances. The game is mostly about running through instances, killing the boss at the end, and it appeals to many people for its casual nature and overt simplicity.

In FFXI you gain reputation through trading corn to an NPC. Yeah, that's deep.

The game is mostly about standing around waiting. You wait for people to form a group or you wait for them to join yours. You wait for NMs to pop or you wait for your event timers to come off cooldown. It appeals to people who enjoy thumb twiddling and insane boredom.

On a serious note, you should just stick to the general 'I hate WoW' or 'WoW is boring' statements. It's too easy to pick apart your argument when you try to support it with flimsy examples.





Edited, Jun 14th 2011 4:44am by FilthMcNasty
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#65 Jun 14 2011 at 6:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
I have nothing against your opinion, but Abyssea killed FFXI for me. Call me crazy but I liked the grind. 100K+xp/hr? No thanks. I watched my roommate leveling in Abyssea after I quit. It made me wanna cry.

You are crazy.

Remember statues in Ru'Avitau?
Remember weapons?
Remember dhalmels and goblins in Bibiki?
Remember boners in KRT?
Remember colibri in Bhaflau?
Remember Mamools?
Remember summoners in Korrolaka?

We have tried, throughout the years, to shorten the grind as much as possible. It is only now that SE recognizes our efforts and gives to us Abyssea, where XP practically hemorrhages from the ground if you kick it hard enough. I don't see how that could be anything other than the next logical step. Plus, they had to top TAU somehow. CoP had been an XP wasteland for two years at lv.75; it's funny how the best thing to grind in CoP was colibri again, but this time for the 30 range!




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#66 Jun 14 2011 at 7:10 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Personally, I'd rather have heaps of content with a backbone that might be flawed but still works well (ffxi model), than a game with almost no content but a great core system in place (what ffxiv AIMS to do, although who knows when). I'm not saying I disagree that those basic elements are important... but for me, content is just AS important, if not more so.


Little pig, little pig, let me in... It doesn't matter what you fill your house with if it is made of straw. You need a good foundation before you add content. Point blank.

Yes but you'll be sleeping on the bare floor of your empty brick house. The concern is that you will move out of your empty brick house (this game) to another brick house that's fully furnished (another game). And in fairness, his house would most likely have been made of wood. The original battle system was functional just really stupid. So he would have his functional though really stupid battle system but would also have a lot more to do.

I personally believe they should have made more of an effort to add content while working on the battle system. The reality is the PC version is clearly the ALPHA/BETA so in that case it does make more sense to get the battle system straight first. If this had been a live game (like I assumed when I bought the damned thing) I would have picked content because I would rather have something to do with a stupid battle system than nothing to do with a fully functional battle system.
#67 Jun 14 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:

Personally, I'd rather have heaps of content with a backbone that might be flawed but still works well (ffxi model), than a game with almost no content but a great core system in place (what ffxiv AIMS to do, although who knows when). I'm not saying I disagree that those basic elements are important... but for me, content is just AS important, if not more so.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
Little pig, little pig, let me in... It doesn't matter what you fill your house with if it is made of straw. You need a good foundation before you add content. Point blank.


I love when people write stuff like "point blank" and think that means they won an argument or something. Perhaps you should re-read what you are quoting. FFXI, as I stated, was built on a rather shaky foundation (not FFXIV bad, but still pretty poor UI and some clunky features) and yet due to its insane amount of content, it has remained a very steady MMO for 10 years. And in the meantime, over the course of it's life it has improved upon its core foundation as well, and removed many of the annoyances.

FFXIV on the other hand... as has already been pointed out by people, has seen VERY little added in 9+ months of the game. Yes, content is coming. A little bit anyways. But after 10 months of absolutely nothing to do. At this point, so many people have left that they will be unbelievably hard pressed to win even HALF of them back. Most have found other games that are more fun, or are just going to wait for Star Wars or Guild Wars or TERA or Diablo 3 or whatever else. It's a massive uphill struggle that they CAN still fix, but it certainly won't be easy.

I guess my point is, while yes I agree that getting a foundation helps, at the same time I know that from the people I have known or talked to, it was the lack of content, not the foundation, that has caused people to leave. You can have a shiny new battle system and a flawless UI, but when there will still be almost ZERO content besides a few poorly implemented sidequests and maybe a dungeon or two, how long will people stay? I just wish they had focused on some content earlier to hold people over until they could fix some of the other things. Heck, I'd still be playing if there was stuff to do. I won't start playing simply because they fix the groundwork of the game. And I know I'm not alone in that.

If you want some proof, look at the LS I started at launch with 50 people that completely died about 2 weeks before I left back in Feb. Every person I talked to when they were quitting said it was because there was nothing to do. Not because the UI was a bit slow, or the battle system wasn't fun. Because there was no content.
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#68 Jun 14 2011 at 9:24 AM Rating: Good
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Several people have suggested just going back to FF11, and because of that, quite honestly, I'm considering it.
After all, I only reached level 21 or so, and I stopped playing 8 years ago for reasons not involving the games entertainment value.
Its a good way to kill time until FF14 is shaped up a bit more, all while helping support a company I want to see succeed while they concentrate on making an MMO as great as its predecessor.
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#69 Jun 14 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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MrTalos wrote:
Yes but you'll be sleeping on the bare floor of your empty brick house. The concern is that you will move out of your empty brick house (this game) to another brick house that's fully furnished (another game).


My point was if SE had spent more time developing a good UI and battle system in the first place, we wouldn't be at this point. Instead of having to remake the house from the ground up, you only have to change some furniture around. Also, I'm not speaking specifically about the battle system. I mean that system, the controls, the setup and response of the UI, class system... ect.

BartelX wrote:
I love when people write stuff like "point blank" and think that means they won an argument or something. Perhaps you should re-read what you are quoting.

Point blank meaning getting straight to the point and not making some long-winded post about it. I re-read what I quoted and it still says the same thing. Content is as important, if not more important than a solid framework. I agree to a certain degree, but in the case of FFXIV...

Look at the changes to the game since beta. How many are cosmetics or content and how many address issues that are systems and UI based? Now look at the changes coming down the pipes. Also tons of changes to basic interface and systems. The underlying point is that if they weren't spending time fixing, they would have more time to spend creating. The absence of content is a direct result of not making solid systems and UI to add that content to.

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#70 Jun 14 2011 at 11:21 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
Actually, there is a reason to turn your back on FFXIV. The reason is that FFXI is still as fun as ever (if not better than ever). We can always come back to IV later if it turns out good.


I have nothing against your opinion, but Abyssea killed FFXI for me. Call me crazy but I liked the grind. 100K+xp/hr? No thanks. I watched my roommate leveling in Abyssea after I quit. It made me wanna cry.


This. Though not for her reason. Abyssea was S-E getting lazy and redoing existing zones and marketing it off as new content. I would have preferred much more original content. Like a new add-on that has completely new continents with the same Abyssea-like EXP system and a new mission line. Instead we just got 6-9 (lost track) existing zones with some NMs, new endgame gear, and an increased level cap with appropriate new methods to obtain it, and that's just not enticing to me. I play Final Fantasy for storyline, not to parse 1000 more damage at level 90.



Edited, Jun 14th 2011 10:23am by UltKnightGrover
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#71 Jun 14 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
Actually, there is a reason to turn your back on FFXIV. The reason is that FFXI is still as fun as ever (if not better than ever). We can always come back to IV later if it turns out good.


I have nothing against your opinion, but Abyssea killed FFXI for me. Call me crazy but I liked the grind. 100K+xp/hr? No thanks. I watched my roommate leveling in Abyssea after I quit. It made me wanna cry.


This is one of the reasons i quit, the other being that what i worked to accomplish armor and skill wise was demolished with the cap boost. But what killed 11 for me was the WotG story line, the second i hit the alternate time lines part and that our time line was "false" i just log off for good. That was the worst story twist ever.


Edited, Jun 14th 2011 1:47pm by TonberyHunter
#72 Jun 14 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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OhimeKowai wrote:
Several people have suggested just going back to FF11, and because of that, quite honestly, I'm considering it.
After all, I only reached level 21 or so, and I stopped playing 8 years ago for reasons not involving the games entertainment value.
Its a good way to kill time until FF14 is shaped up a bit more, all while helping support a company I want to see succeed while they concentrate on making an MMO as great as its predecessor.

I decided this today as well, just purchased the Abyssea Collector's Edition or w/e it's called. Now to see what all this clamor of Abyssea is aboot.

I, for one, will not wipe my hands of this game. Once they introduce some of their changes I will check it out. But as people have said...there's nothing to do in the game really.

Edit: Plus now maybe I can get a Maat's Cap. Which I don't care about showing off, or that I got it cheaply. It's more of a personal thing that I want to achieve.

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 1:45pm by OMGItsABear
#73 Jun 14 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
Almalexia wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
I have nothing against your opinion, but Abyssea killed FFXI for me. Call me crazy but I liked the grind. 100K+xp/hr? No thanks. I watched my roommate leveling in Abyssea after I quit. It made me wanna cry.

You are crazy.

Remember statues in Ru'Avitau?
Remember weapons?
Remember dhalmels and goblins in Bibiki?
Remember boners in KRT?
Remember colibri in Bhaflau?
Remember Mamools?
Remember summoners in Korrolaka?

We have tried, throughout the years, to shorten the grind as much as possible. It is only now that SE recognizes our efforts and gives to us Abyssea, where XP practically hemorrhages from the ground if you kick it hard enough. I don't see how that could be anything other than the next logical step. Plus, they had to top TAU somehow. CoP had been an XP wasteland for two years at lv.75; it's funny how the best thing to grind in CoP was colibri again, but this time for the 30 range!


Yes but I didn't play FFXI for years grinding away jobs to see someone able to get 1-90 in a week. It was kinda like a slap in the face for me. I mean, it's not like I had a ton of 75s or anything, all I had was RDM75(ended at 80~ish i think) and a couple other jobs real close (blu...sam...i think) but the rest of my jobs were 37~40 (at least all the subs that mattered...). Was I wanting something interesting to do? Sure...but they could have left the Easy Button at Staples. :(
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#74 Jun 14 2011 at 5:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Docent42 wrote:

I just gave up most of my hopes because Square are addressing and trying to fix things that aren't broken instead of spending time working on what is.


I quit when I saw they were "fixing" things I liked and ignoring things that were actually broken.
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#75 Jun 14 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Olorinus wrote:
Docent42 wrote:

I just gave up most of my hopes because Square are addressing and trying to fix things that aren't broken instead of spending time working on what is.


I quit when I saw they were "fixing" things I liked and ignoring things that were actually broken.


Was one of the things you liked no auto attack? It just seems that I have seen a lot of people say the same thing and about 90% of the time it ends up that they do not like that SE is adding auto attack. To be fair I like the idea of auto attack but it dose seem to have alienated a lot of players.

If auto attack is one of the things let me ask you this. Will you give it a try when it dose get put in the game?
#76 Jun 14 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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Also Abyssea is awesome - it has made the game a million times more enjoyable than it was before. It would have been cool if they had made new zones instead of reusing old ones, but alas, PS2 limitations...

Still, I love it. And it took me these 4 months to get from 1-85, so people can stop exaggerating how "easy" it all is. The only difficult thing about leveling up in XI was the mind-numbing boredom of it. No thanks.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#77 Jun 14 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sethern79 wrote:
The One and Only Olorinus wrote:
Docent42 wrote:

I just gave up most of my hopes because Square are addressing and trying to fix things that aren't broken instead of spending time working on what is.


I quit when I saw they were "fixing" things I liked and ignoring things that were actually broken.


Was one of the things you liked no auto attack? It just seems that I have seen a lot of people say the same thing and about 90% of the time it ends up that they do not like that SE is adding auto attack. To be fair I like the idea of auto attack but it dose seem to have alienated a lot of players.

If auto attack is one of the things let me ask you this. Will you give it a try when it dose get put in the game?


I log in every once in awhile to check out the patches. I will do so again. I thought it was auto-attack before, but I realize now that, it was just that the only thing I enjoyed about the combat was the reactive stuff and the mix and match... who knows, auto-attack could be fine.

I still don't even like in in XI but at least you level to the point where there are lots of skills to play with reasonably fast.

I would have to agree with OP though. I used to totally white knight this game - but I have just about totally given up on it - especially as I play XI and get more and more invested in my character in that game. Why would I abandon that, especially when I've been watching the horrific snail's pace of development on XIV? I don't have a lot of faith in the game now.

If they had pumped out some real content a month or two after I left I would have probably been more interested, especially when I was struggling to go from 60-75 in XI. But all they added was a handful of lame quests and a few NMs... in 4 months!
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#78 Jun 14 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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I decided I will be trying out ffxi again in about 2 weeks I think. I would encourage everyone to at least read up on the changes with Abyssea. It seems like the perfect casual atmosphere that's exactly the OPPOSITE of the ffxi I remember from 3 years ago. Can't wait!

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 8:08pm by BartelX
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#79 Jun 14 2011 at 6:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sethern79 wrote:
Was one of the things you liked no auto attack? It just seems that I have seen a lot of people say the same thing and about 90% of the time it ends up that they do not like that SE is adding auto attack. To be fair I like the idea of auto attack but it dose seem to have alienated a lot of players.

If auto attack is one of the things let me ask you this. Will you give it a try when it dose get put in the game?

In my case, as long as it's free, I'll come back and check on progress. I don't play any other MMO these days, so I'm just going to burn through my pile of neglected single-player games until the patches.

Auto-attack isn't a BAD change in itself -- being able to chat with people when you play instead of just mashing buttons is a step up, in my humble opinion. The problem is, auto-attack won't bring people back, it's a small Quality-Of-Life improvement.
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#80 Jun 14 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I still can't figure out why people want nonstop key pressing for combat. In FFXI, meriting on PUP was fun but mentally exhausting after an hour and a half to two hours. The constant juggling of maneuvers every 10 seconds wears me down in addition to all the other melee abilities. I can't imagine how brutal it'd be to have also needed to manually initiate every melee attack.
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#81 Jun 14 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
I decided I will be trying out ffxi again in about 2 weeks I think. I would encourage everyone to at least read up on the changes with Abyssea. It seems like the perfect casual atmosphere that's exactly the OPPOSITE of the ffxi I remember from 3 years ago. Can't wait!

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 8:08pm by BartelX


It's fun, but it's not exactly casual. Casual to me means that you can pick it up, play for a bit, and drop it off whenever you want and come back to it another day. Because FFXI is still mostly party based (if you want decent xp), there's still gonna be the downtime when waiting for party invites or forming parties etc. Also I'm already getting a headache thinking of how to find enough people to do the limit-break or the nation quests when the time comes. If you are planning to play again, I am Nakaru on Pheonix server :). Also this is a pretty decent LS on pheonix server, you can request to join them:

http://www.titansentinels.com

Cheers and have fun ^^
#82 Jun 14 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Good
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9 months to make these changes may be a long time for a game that is in development, but it's a tad more challenging to do so to a game that is already online.

If you really want to know if this game will be worth playing again once the changes are all made, don't play until they are. I honestly found the game empty, confusing and boring as **** every since alpha1. When there was virtually no additional content with the game come launch, I more or less gave up.

Several months back I wrote a lengthy list of different ways that they could improve the combat system. They must of read it, because they seem to be doing more or less what I was thinking, although they used the name "job" from XI rather than "stance".

Essentially, your job will buff certain aspects of your characters, including the effects of skills, while weakening it in other areas. If they follow what I outlined back then, features like multiple attacks per turn or dual wielding will be jobs of certain classes.



Remember that every factor they add into the game creates more and more balance issues. There are the direct issues of raw DPS from classes, difference in damage depending on element, then difference in damage depending upon mob type. Then each skill has it's own properties. That was bad enough to balance (and they never did get it right iirc). Now they are switching out one property (stamina) for auto attacks, which requires that they rework and readjust every single weapon in the game.

Add on to that that they have have another set of parameters that come with jobs, as well as determining how powerful the effects of each job should be. Whether you like it or not, this is quite a daunting task to perform while doing regular updates to a game that has already gone live. XIV will be a piece of ****, as you call it, until probably a month or so before the PS3 release.








#83 Jun 14 2011 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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Well I for one started spending more time in ffxi because of the recent updates. This game has made lvling not only easy but it gives so many options for doing it. You can still form a boring 6 member party if you want. You can smn burn or blm burn or even try the FC parties. Abyssea didnt take those things away. Quite honestly if you use the whole "I worked for years to get my char capped, but some noob did it 3 days 1-90." What that player did has no bearing on your skill lvl and your ability to play the job.

Yeah I was one that left or reduced my playtime in ffxi because I thought ffxiv was going to rock. Yes its been months since Ive even logged into ffxiv. I am also waiting for the patch to see if my will to try it out returns.

In the meantime, I am having an absolute blast in ffxi. My lsmates that never left were still there enjoying themselves and happy to see me when I said {Hello} {Linkshell}. Aside from hunting NMs for atma and finishing megabosses and caturae. I found myself actually wanting to try out jobs that I never got around to lvling due to the grind. There is just so much to do that I dont find myself chomping at the bit for ffxiv to get its **** in gear. It will someday and when it does I will gladly give it a go. Im a fan as many of us are, and most are hurt by the less than ideal launch.

So to all the ppl that have left to play something else......{Take Care} {See you again}

I bought ffxi and have vowed since I have quit and come back about 7 times that you know....Im full of ****. Im not gonna quit until they shut it down. I have decided that I can wait until ffxiv is ready or until they shut it down that I will remain patient.

Everyone has the right to do what they want with their time and I wish them well. However, I am willing to bet that when I log into ffxiv after the patch. That it wont be to a completely empty server. Lots of ppl still have the faith whether they want to admit it or not is another thing entirely.
#84 Jun 14 2011 at 10:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
I still can't figure out why people want nonstop key pressing for combat. In FFXI, meriting on PUP was fun but mentally exhausting after an hour and a half to two hours. The constant juggling of maneuvers every 10 seconds wears me down in addition to all the other melee abilities. I can't imagine how brutal it'd be to have also needed to manually initiate every melee attack.


Oh, geez, this. PUP made me tired; I found myself wishing manoeuvres lasted significantly longer than they did (and that they looked a little different, too).
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#85 Jun 14 2011 at 11:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Caia wrote:
"Go under"? Yeah. FFXIII sold pretty poorly.


Not quite. XIII sold quite well, and received high marks even if they are not as high as its predecessors.

The idea that SE has lost its edge with its flagship product is objectively unfounded. The series has been received poorly by the fanbase lately, but that doesn't say much. Numbers say more and the numbers, up until 14, were strong and continue to be with others games put out by SE. Final Fantasy IV through X (and now even XII!) continue to be regularly remembered by fans for a wide variety of reasons.

We can only go up now, because after what happened, SE cannot sit on their loins so easily and choose to neglect everything they have learned. (And in the case of MMORPGs: Everything they have learned over the past nine years.) If we do not go up, then there is no true loss. Any company that would continue to operate as blissfully ignorant as that is metaphorically dead from a number of standpoints, and we'll all just have to start making mourning groups and cut our losses while gleefully downloading Final Fantasy 7-9 and talking about the 'good ole' days.
#86 Jun 14 2011 at 11:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Nonagon wrote:
SE cannot sit on their loins so easily...


This happens to me sometimes when I'm not careful =/
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#87Vereiteln, Posted: Jun 15 2011 at 1:28 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) /cry /cry /cry /cry
#88 Jun 15 2011 at 4:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Nonagon wrote:
Caia wrote:
"Go under"? Yeah. FFXIII sold pretty poorly.


Not quite. XIII sold quite well, and received high marks even if they are not as high as its predecessors.


You know, I was going to reiterate that it wasn't all that well liked by reviewers. However, upon looking at the ratings, most gave it an 8 or better. They all said pretty much the same thing, though. "Great graphics, great music, interesting story (if a bit over the top). But the actual game play is exceptionally linear, and while the new battle system has its perks, it often leads to just smashing the X button."

Don't get me wrong, visuals and music add a lot to a game... If the game is good to begin with. FF13 has been the only single player FF that I haven't finished. I've beat FF2 TWICE and I don't even like the game all that much. Maybe its just me. In any case, *I* will not be picking FF13-2 up. I suspect some others won't as well based on the experiences from FF13. Time will tell, I suppose.


Quote:
The idea that SE has lost its edge with its flagship product is objectively unfounded. The series has been received poorly by the fanbase lately, but that doesn't say much. Numbers say more and the numbers, up until 14, were strong and continue to be with others games put out by SE. Final Fantasy IV through X (and now even XII!) continue to be regularly remembered by fans for a wide variety of reasons.


(Emphasis mine)

The Final Fantasy games aren't all that well known. At least not in comparison to some other titles. Granted after FF7, a lot of gamers that had never heard of the series got a chance to pick it up. And, the series seems to appeal to a much smaller segment of the gaming population. Given all this, if the fans aren't happy with the product (which I think we can all agree that most fans are very unhappy with FF14), who else is going to buy it?

Quote:
We can only go up now, because after what happened, SE cannot sit on their loins so easily and choose to neglect everything they have learned. (And in the case of MMORPGs: Everything they have learned over the past nine years.) If we do not go up, then there is no true loss. Any company that would continue to operate as blissfully ignorant as that is metaphorically dead from a number of standpoints, and we'll all just have to start making mourning groups and cut our losses while gleefully downloading Final Fantasy 7-9 and talking about the 'good ole' days.


Neglect what they have learned? FF13 was fairly lackluster -- at least in comparison to other titles. Yet, they make a sequel. FF14 was awful during beta. SE came out and said, "Don't worry, we'll fix it be release!" FF14 was awful at release. So bad that they had to fire the guy running the show, find a new guy to replace him and give away months of free service. Even then people are still leaving because the game isn't fun enough to play -- even for free.

This, my friend, is NOT the sign of a company that has learned from its mistakes. Maybe things have changed this time. I've heard that way too often before, though. Pardon my cynicism, but I just don't think SE gets it.

Go back and check the links I put in my other post. They show a company that's losing money. Unless something happens to change that, SE will go under or be bought out. That's just the nature of business.
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#89 Jun 15 2011 at 5:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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Shezard wrote:

Well I still do and I'm still willing to give SE the chance of proving they can pull it off again. If you played XI right from the JP release you would have witnessed the exact same thing and with quitting it completely and forever, just think off what you missed out on knowing what XI became later on. If I see small to no progress by the end of this year, I will be ****** and I will be rage quitting here and there, but its still not the end. I will check back at a later time and see if its better then, cause I still do care and I still want XIV to become what XI became.


I played since Japanese PS2 Beta... no one was raging at the game having a lack of content or broken mechanics. Things got patched quickly even back then (2002 lol), and within half a year they were raising the level cap and adding new, awesome gear, quests, and unlocking more Mission content like Shadow Lord. (Shadow Lord is kind of a meh example, though... since he was in the game since release, but wasn't beatable until they raised the cap)

Comparing the XIV launch to XI's is ridiculous. One was good, one was and still is atrocious.
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#90 Jun 15 2011 at 6:14 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Nonagon wrote:
SE cannot sit on their loins so easily...


This happens to me sometimes when I'm not careful =/


And to think that I have this nice little dictionary on my computer that goes totally unused! My bad, bah.

#91 Jun 15 2011 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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i am skeptical only because of their lack to communicate. i don't play atm. i've been trying to play other games but can't really get into them because well... i just like the ff atmosphere. rq, anyone have any opinions on terra? but i digress... for people that aren't playing and checking the lodestone for info on when might be a good time to check out the game again, the letters are late and the fans are panicking... not good business. they need to take a few minutes out of their day to simply say "Hey, letter is gonna be late but it's coming."

Other than that, I believe it will work. 9 months... boo hoo... that's nothing. SE needs to pull their head out of the **** and take it srsly but i think we are all under agreement that Yoshi-P is doing all right. FF has mass interest around the world; kinda hard to kill that interest with a few "flop" games. I think the length of time being dedicated to this new content is a good sign and all this "ffxiv gonna fail" BS will all be forgotten 2 years from now.
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#92 Jun 15 2011 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Caia wrote:
Neglect what they have learned? FF13 was fairly lackluster -- at least in comparison to other titles. Yet, they make a sequel. FF14 was awful during beta. SE came out and said, "Don't worry, we'll fix it be release!" FF14 was awful at release. So bad that they had to fire the guy running the show, find a new guy to replace him and give away months of free service. Even then people are still leaving because the game isn't fun enough to play -- even for free.

This, my friend, is NOT the sign of a company that has learned from its mistakes. Maybe things have changed this time. I've heard that way too often before, though. Pardon my cynicism, but I just don't think SE gets it.
The two games were in development at the same time. Seems a bit unfair to criticize them on that point (as much as FF14 disappoints me), because the Alpha started just as FF13 came out. If they started working on FF14 after releasing FF13, maybe you'd have a point. Also, people seem to dislike 13 and 14 for different reasons.
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Almalieque wrote:
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#93 Jun 15 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Mithsavvy wrote:
Actually, there is a reason to turn your back on FFXIV. The reason is that FFXI is still as fun as ever (if not better than ever). We can always come back to IV later if it turns out good.


I have nothing against your opinion, but Abyssea killed FFXI for me. Call me crazy but I liked the grind. 100K+xp/hr? No thanks. I watched my roommate leveling in Abyssea after I quit. It made me wanna cry.


Thats fine. But for me, I played FFXI for like 7 years. While I enjoyed the ultimate goal/reward aspect of FFXI for a long time, Abyssea breathed new life into the game for people like me. Now I get a chance to levle all of those jobs that I always wanted to try but just wasn't realistic from a pure time standpoint. I can also get some gear that I always wanted like RDM AF2 hat, for example.

Will it get old pretty fast? Probably. But then again, the amount of new content is vast and they keep cranking out more and more. Not to mention all of the "old stuff" that me and a buddy cna go do at level 90. Soloing Simugh, doing sky in a duo. Killing Kirin with a few BSTs, etc. There's tons of new adventures to be had for returning players.

I figure that by the time I get bored with it, maybe FFIV will be up to snuff.



Edited, Jun 15th 2011 8:53am by Mithsavvy
#94 Jun 15 2011 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
I have nothing against your opinion, but Abyssea killed FFXI for me. Call me crazy but I liked the grind. 100K+xp/hr? No thanks. I watched my roommate leveling in Abyssea after I quit. It made me wanna cry.

You are crazy.

Remember statues in Ru'Avitau?
Remember weapons?
Remember dhalmels and goblins in Bibiki?
Remember boners in KRT?
Remember colibri in Bhaflau?
Remember Mamools?
Remember summoners in Korrolaka?

We have tried, throughout the years, to shorten the grind as much as possible. It is only now that SE recognizes our efforts and gives to us Abyssea, where XP practically hemorrhages from the ground if you kick it hard enough. I don't see how that could be anything other than the next logical step. Plus, they had to top TAU somehow. CoP had been an XP wasteland for two years at lv.75; it's funny how the best thing to grind in CoP was colibri again, but this time for the 30 range!


Yes but I didn't play FFXI for years grinding away jobs to see someone able to get 1-90 in a week. It was kinda like a slap in the face for me. I mean, it's not like I had a ton of 75s or anything, all I had was RDM75(ended at 80~ish i think) and a couple other jobs real close (blu...sam...i think) but the rest of my jobs were 37~40 (at least all the subs that mattered...). Was I wanting something interesting to do? Sure...but they could have left the Easy Button at Staples. :(



Yea but c'mon. I was a little **** hurt too when I learned that the 60 million of gear I had when I logged off in 2009 isn't worth 1/20 of that today. But I got over it and moved on. After all the most fun aspect of FFXI was finally achieving a goal that you have been working towards. What fun would it be to sit around basking in your old accomplishments until the end of days. You dind't really expect SE to not advance the game just so that the guy who pimped out his "Ridill Warrior" in 2003 is still considered a pimp in 2011?
#95 Jun 15 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
MrTalos wrote:
Yes but you'll be sleeping on the bare floor of your empty brick house. The concern is that you will move out of your empty brick house (this game) to another brick house that's fully furnished (another game).


My point was if SE had spent more time developing a good UI and battle system in the first place, we wouldn't be at this point. Instead of having to remake the house from the ground up, you only have to change some furniture around.

I'm with you completely on that.
#96 Jun 15 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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All of this talk to FFXIII and FFXIV kinda make me think a hybrid game would be best.

The battle system of XIII and the... uh... spirit of XIV?

Though like someone else stated both games were bad in their own ways, but I would agree that the overall SE's management is the same. Just look at the interviews for FFXIII-2. All of them state that they received "feedback" from the user base, and that they heard the complaints and are making changes.

Even though it sold "well" and even though the big critics gave decent scores, I'd bet money that FFXIII was the most returned FF of all time with VIII being a close contender.

On topic, I think one of the reasons why I play MMOs is to explore a new world and it seems like there's nothing else to explore/or worth exploring. Combine that with the insular community, another reason why I won't be re-subbing to FFXI.

I'd hate to be "moving the goal posts" but now it seems these are the main concerns for me. I'd like to see the starting areas revamped or new areas altogether and events that people can do like "rifts" or open behests that encourage community without cliquishness.

Unfortunately after a year the game even with band-aids seems stale, and I would rather play something new.

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 12:01pm by Kierk
#97 Jun 15 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The two games were in development at the same time. Seems a bit unfair to criticize them on that point (as much as FF14 disappoints me), because the Alpha started just as FF13 came out. If they started working on FF14 after releasing FF13, maybe you'd have a point. Also, people seem to dislike 13 and 14 for different reasons.


Sorry. By sequel I meant FF13-2. Really should have been more clear in my post.
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#98 Jun 15 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Caia wrote:
Quote:
The two games were in development at the same time. Seems a bit unfair to criticize them on that point (as much as FF14 disappoints me), because the Alpha started just as FF13 came out. If they started working on FF14 after releasing FF13, maybe you'd have a point. Also, people seem to dislike 13 and 14 for different reasons.


Sorry. By sequel I meant FF13-2. Really should have been more clear in my post.
Ahh, that makes more sense then.

I'll wait to make a judgment on FF13-2. There just isn't enough info about it yet (at least not from what I've seen). I liked FF13 but a sequel has me concerned. Can't shake the FFX-2 feeling. More importantly, what happened to FF versus 13?
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#99liinko, Posted: Jun 15 2011 at 5:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Your argument is based on no one wanting to come back, here's my view on things.
#100 Jun 15 2011 at 5:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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liinko wrote:

so, if you like what this game will become and don't mind waiting thats great stick around, if not leave theres plenty of other MMOs out there, we don't need more whiners in the game.

long story short this game will be prety good once they fix everything, you have to keep in mind not many people have a system that can run ffxiv, so when ps3 version is out i'm certain there will be an influx of people, and as long as there is a server full of people the game will be enjoyable.


Ok, but how do you know what the game "will become"? I mean, it's really not becoming much of anything after being out for 9 months. Rift has been out for 3, I still can't keep up with all that there is to do, AND another patch is coming down in the next couple of weeks with more content. It's not a massive world that can keep the interests of the really hard core as yet, but the difference between Rift and FFXIV is that they don't have to go back and rewrite botched systems. They made sure that the game was stable and worked before it went out the door, and now it's just a content release race.

XIV is STILL cramming systems that don't work down everyone's throats and no one has ever really explained why.

I really wanted to hang in there for FFXIV but it's just looking like even if they do get it sorted out - it will be too little, too late. I've already written off the Ps3 I bought just for this game, and nothing short of the sheer epicness that FFXI was will bring anyone back at this point. My entire linkshell of almost 5 years, which moved over as a group, has basically disbanded. It's over.
#101 Jun 15 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Default
9 posts
Torrence wrote:
liinko wrote:

so, if you like what this game will become and don't mind waiting thats great stick around, if not leave theres plenty of other MMOs out there, we don't need more whiners in the game.

long story short this game will be prety good once they fix everything, you have to keep in mind not many people have a system that can run ffxiv, so when ps3 version is out i'm certain there will be an influx of people, and as long as there is a server full of people the game will be enjoyable.


Ok, but how do you know what the game "will become"? I mean, it's really not becoming much of anything after being out for 9 months. Rift has been out for 3, I still can't keep up with all that there is to do, AND another patch is coming down in the next couple of weeks with more content. It's not a massive world that can keep the interests of the really hard core as yet, but the difference between Rift and FFXIV is that they don't have to go back and rewrite botched systems. They made sure that the game was stable and worked before it went out the door, and now it's just a content release race.

XIV is STILL cramming systems that don't work down everyone's throats and no one has ever really explained why.

I really wanted to hang in there for FFXIV but it's just looking like even if they do get it sorted out - it will be too little, too late. I've already written off the Ps3 I bought just for this game, and nothing short of the sheer epicness that FFXI was will bring anyone back at this point. My entire linkshell of almost 5 years, which moved over as a group, has basically disbanded. It's over.


I don't know what the game will become I can just imagine what it will be by what they have told us will be in the game, and from knowing how they managed FFXI.

I do agree that SE takes forever to fix their things, same as it was in XI, and that they shouldve waited to release the game until it was good enough and then just focused on content like other games, but I don't mind waiting. It doesn't mean I haven't or won't play other MMO's while waiting for ffxiv, I was actually playing Eden Eternal a freetoplay mmo, and I'm prety excited about SWTOR.

It might be too late for some people such as yourself and your linkshell but like I mentioned, as long as there is enough people to fill a server and play I'm happy as I'm sure many others are. I just don't like people talking about how it will never work, I assure you unless there is not enough people to even fill one server FFXIV will live there will be people playing they will fix it and we will enjoy it.

I'm sure at some point it will be as epic as FFXI, and hope to see u in game at that time even if its a year from now^^
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