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Letter from the Producer, XI (06/14/2011) Follow

#52 Jun 14 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
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Your right, the wait is for the best. Better get something good than something not working. It's not that long any who. I can probably test out RIFT, or wait on the highly elusive Vintage Jesters Hat to pop from the deep pool of faction rewards.
#53 Jun 14 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
Never understood why people would keep default-attack on "1". I find it a lot easier if it's on "5" or "6" with other abilities around it.

Am I the only one who highlights and presses enter? I must be a noob. After watching the video I'm sure I'll change over to number keys when spamming is no longer needed.
Hugus wrote:
I really dont understand people and this statement.

I can see your highest DoW as A Gladiator which mine is at around r31.

I use on every fight:

Foresight
Guard
Light Stab
Skull Sunder
Rampart

Also on some/most of them I use:

Aegis Boon
Bloodbath
Shield Bash

Maybe ur only fighting mobs of same or lower rank as you... if so go and fight something harder.

I agree with you on doing this for grinding, but when farming faction points and guild marks it's all about 1 star and spamming for me (usually on R50).
#54 Jun 14 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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You highlight with your mouse and ,instead of clicking with your mouse too, you hit enter? Why not just click with mouse?

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 8:22pm by RedGalka
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#55 Jun 14 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
You highlight with your mouse and ,instead of clicking with your mouse too, you hit enter? Why not just click with mouse?

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 8:22pm by RedGalka


Pretty sure he meant Highlight scrolling with the arrow keys and hitting enter to "use" Highlighted ability.
#56 Jun 14 2011 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent
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ZigiaraNyosu wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
You highlight with your mouse and ,instead of clicking with your mouse too, you hit enter? Why not just click with mouse?

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 8:22pm by RedGalka


Pretty sure he meant Highlight scrolling with the arrow keys and hitting enter to "use" Highlighted ability.


Yeah I use the arrow keys. Only use for the mouse is clicking the first password space when logging on. It looks like they may be using the arrow keys in the video too. Unless a controller looks the same way.

Edited, Jun 14th 2011 3:28pm by blueazaka
#57 Jun 14 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah it looks the same with controller too.
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#58 Jun 14 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Anyone know the name of the ability that allows the player to run through the enemy @ 1:50? :D
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#59 Jun 14 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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It looks like just a stun then target lock off and walk thru, you could always walk thru mobs if you are not locked on to them.
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#60 Jun 14 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Stupifyed wrote:
It looks like just a stun then target lock off and walk thru, you could always walk thru mobs if you are not locked on to them.


I thought that was an odd thing to show off; it would have looked a lot better if he remained locked on and just strafed around to the back. It looks strange (to say the least) to see someone just melt through characters/objects as though they were no impediment.
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#61 Jun 14 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Stupifyed wrote:
It looks like just a stun then target lock off and walk thru, you could always walk thru mobs if you are not locked on to them.


I thought that was an odd thing to show off; it would have looked a lot better if he remained locked on and just strafed around to the back. It looks strange (to say the least) to see someone just melt through characters/objects as though they were no impediment.

yeah it looks odd, but strafing would have taken longer if your goal was to be directly behind the mob, and as we all know time is an important factor in battling.
its not too far off though, realistically you wouldnt strafe to get behind them, youd dash right past them. i guess this would be the closest to that.
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#62 Jun 14 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Stupifyed wrote:
It looks like just a stun then target lock off and walk thru, you could always walk thru mobs if you are not locked on to them.


I thought that was an odd thing to show off; it would have looked a lot better if he remained locked on and just strafed around to the back. It looks strange (to say the least) to see someone just melt through characters/objects as though they were no impediment.



i always just strafe around when i use the jarring strike --> blindside technique. it works fine. i never thought to run through, which is of course a millisecond faster.
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#63 Jun 14 2011 at 10:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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pixelpop wrote:
its not too far off though, realistically you wouldnt strafe to get behind them, youd dash right past them. i guess this would be the closest to that.


Dash past them, yes, dash through them, no. But wouldn't it be neat if a game (I'm sure some have done this by now) actually had an animation for when you do such an action? It would be quite appealing, I think, if trying to run through a Goblin caused your character to sort of side-step past it as he/she approached, maybe slightly shoving the Goblin to the side in the process as it regains its balance - all just an animation, of course, it shouldn't stagger the Goblin or anything!

It's a superficial and minor quibble, and I'm certainly not expecting that kind of attention to detail, especially given many of the other MMOs I've seen out there. Some day, though... d(ºw º )
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#65 Jun 14 2011 at 11:42 PM Rating: Default
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kikicocky wrote:
A lot of folks are upset about this update. What did they expect?!?!? what did they want, there probably will not be more than three dungeons. I am expecting three of them, that is it pretty much, raid zones :D.


Now pretty sure that not all coming in 1.18, but for others they mentioned a list of stuff and not all was going to come in 1.18 and they knew it would not. You guys should have expected it, btw this site can be strange at times. Trying to give advice to people and get a slap on the wrist for it. Come on... no my fault I have free will, I did not even talk bad about this site.


Everyone seems pretty excited about the update (letter from the producer xi) to me. Are you sure your posting in the right thread? Some people didn't care for 1.17.
#67 Jun 15 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
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I guess you could jump over the mob instead of running through them.

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 9:43am by RedGalka
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#68 Jun 15 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Default
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kikicocky wrote:
Well online I saw some veiled complaints concerning the letter, and upset people, who whined and said they wanted it now. I expect the people who have been playing since day one are upset because they wanted this to be the grand big "update" and it is not that. It is just improvements of stuff that should have already been in the game.

new items
new gear
3 dungeons
Improved battle system.

I see nothing wrong here.

About my last complain just ignore it... I was rambling.

Just tell them it's better to wait than to get an incomplete update. They would complain a lot more if the auto-attack wasn't working properly and they were hitting themselves instead of a mob... I would kind of want to see that.
#70 Jun 15 2011 at 12:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Obiar wrote:
Bah...still gotta wait to see if archers will get auto-shoot.


I was curious about this myself when I first heard about them implementing auto-attack. How would Archer fall into this? I mean in XI ranged weapons had their own slot along with main weapons.

Back before the Archer nerf in XI Archers would stand next to the monster and use normal attacks along with ranged attacks. Post nerf they had to stay at a distance or suffer in DPS.

If they they do give them a type of auto-attack will it just be like Light Shot? If not how would it work without a stamina bar? Will they move the bow to a secondary slot like they did in XI and give Archers a new main weapon like daggers or something? How will they balance it if they did?

Blarg...so many questions.

Edit: It never occurred to me that it might work like it did in XI. Meaning that ranged weapons still have a delay but you have to press a button or macro to shoot.

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 2:36am by CupDeNoodles
#71 Jun 15 2011 at 7:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly, I don't think it'll be that complicated. Chances are you probably target a creature and either go into active mode or push Enter/"Confirm" to begin attacking. Regardless of ranged or melee, I don't see how it's that big of an issue. I'm more curious exactly how the extra basic attacks earned from Guild marks and the like are going to be balanced with the new auto attack system. I saw in the video pugilist had their Light Strike and Pummel with MP cost's. I'm sure that on top of various recast timers will make them a bit hard to "spam" and more of a situation ability.
#72 Jun 15 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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There was no Archer nerf in FFXI. Just wanted to point this out.
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#73 Jun 15 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Good
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Kayako wrote:
There was no Archer nerf in FFXI. Just wanted to point this out.


Is this supposed to be like "they never really got nerfed enough..." or do you just have no idea?
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#74 Jun 15 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Archer isn't the same as Ranger in FFXI. RNG had the option to use auto-attack with their primary Main/Sub weapons (ie. Daggers) at close range. This is why there was no auto-attack associated to their ranged weapon.

Archer has no secondary weapons. The Bow is they're primary weapon. And because it is physical, I'm leaning towards thinking they they'll have an auto-attack feature. It was stated specifically that Battle classes would have auto-attack (so no Auto-craft...boo!) but they made no mention of any exclusions in the announcement. Because the new system requires TP to use abilities, it would not be balanced to have an Archer (physical/TP based class) "not" have an auto-attack for TP building purposes.
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#75 Jun 15 2011 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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They could implement a 'normal shot' ability on a short cooldown that stays active and automatically fires arrows until you change position. I'm not really for or against auto-attacking, but I don't like the idea of shooting on the move. Based on the way the battle system works currently, I don't really see many other ways to implement auto-attack for archer.
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#76 Jun 15 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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LateReg wrote:
Kayako wrote:
There was no Archer nerf in FFXI. Just wanted to point this out.


Is this supposed to be like "they never really got nerfed enough..." or do you just have no idea?
It's supposed to be like "there is no 'Archer' in FFXI, only Ranger."
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#77GodTheAlmighty, Posted: Jun 15 2011 at 2:49 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So they took the semi-engaging piece of battle game play and made it ..... *yawn* .... is this really what people voted for? This is what everyone wanted immediately to make this game more ... what? Engaging? Fun? Exciting? Stare-Fest? The only piece of the game that's even playable atm is the battling and now it's right back to what it was in XI without the pieces that made XI fun - ie. engaging party play.
#78 Jun 15 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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GodTheAlmighty wrote:
So they took the semi-engaging piece of battle game play and made it ..... *yawn* .... is this really what people voted for? This is what everyone wanted immediately to make this game more ... what? Engaging? Fun? Exciting? Stare-Fest? The only piece of the game that's even playable atm is the battling and now it's right back to what it was in XI without the pieces that made XI fun - ie. engaging party play.

C'est la vie I guess. Another nail in the coffin for this group of players.
Chatting with people isn't exactly easy if you're pressing buttons for combat nonstop. What exactly is fun about pressing the 1 key for 75% of the fight?



Edited, Jun 15th 2011 4:00pm by bsphil
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#79 Jun 15 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Kayako wrote:
There was no Archer nerf in FFXI. Just wanted to point this out.


Is this supposed to be like "they never really got nerfed enough..." or do you just have no idea?
It's supposed to be like "there is no 'Archer' in FFXI, only Ranger."


Yeah, I figured he was going for that, but you're honestly gonna defend such a useless and nitpicking post? Awesome.
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#80 Jun 15 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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LateReg wrote:
bsphil wrote:
LateReg wrote:
Kayako wrote:
There was no Archer nerf in FFXI. Just wanted to point this out.


Is this supposed to be like "they never really got nerfed enough..." or do you just have no idea?
It's supposed to be like "there is no 'Archer' in FFXI, only Ranger."


Yeah, I figured he was going for that, but you're honestly gonna defend such a useless and nitpicking post? Awesome.
You seemed to not get it. ¯\(º_o)/¯
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#81 Jun 15 2011 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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If you really want to nitpick, then Ranger itself didn't get nerfed, just the ranged attack formula. Not to say Ranger didn't get screwed, but we are nitpicking here.
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#82 Jun 15 2011 at 5:06 PM Rating: Good
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Those of you who complain about auto-attack, feel free to continue hitting 1's if it makes you happy.
#83 Jun 15 2011 at 6:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Imaboomer wrote:
Those of you who complain about auto-attack, feel free to continue hitting 1's if it makes you happy.

I'll keep hitting 1 if they give me more content. You don't get the content but you can watch your character attack on its own, deal?

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 8:39pm by Docent42
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#84 Jun 15 2011 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
Imaboomer wrote:
Those of you who complain about auto-attack, feel free to continue hitting 1's if it makes you happy.

I'll keep hitting 1 if they give me more content. You don't get the content but you can watch your character attack on its own, deal?

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 8:39pm by Docent42



^ This is what I meant.

If a man falls off a cliff, giving him a new shirt because it's dirty isn't exactly going to fix his broken bones.
#85 Jun 15 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Default
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So you are saying auto-attack shouldnt be implemented because its the same as mashing 1 and instead they should add content. However, due to the spam 1, proper strategic mechanism cannot work to allow for challenging content. So therefore, the man that fell off need a new shirt.
#86 Jun 15 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:

Chatting with people isn't exactly easy if you're pressing buttons for combat nonstop. What exactly is fun about pressing the 1 key for 75% of the fight?



Edited, Jun 15th 2011 4:00pm by bsphil


im still on the fence with auto attack because I played XI for years, but really is doing nothing for 75% of the fight better than hitting 1?
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#87 Jun 15 2011 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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#88 Jun 16 2011 at 12:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Back in the old days, when I had a NES/SNES, I used to press buttons a lot faster then now.
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#89 Jun 16 2011 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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xSanctusx wrote:
bsphil wrote:

Chatting with people isn't exactly easy if you're pressing buttons for combat nonstop. What exactly is fun about pressing the 1 key for 75% of the fight?


im still on the fence with auto attack because I played XI for years, but really is doing nothing for 75% of the fight better than hitting 1?


Vent or skype solve the first problem, sorta. I don't really care about auto-attack. To me it's really just another minor change to the game that won't have any lasting impact.

I'm surprised that no one has touched on the real problem with the battle system. It needs more reactive elements. Abilities that only become available when other requirements have been met. More than just 'x amount of tp' on a cooldown timer. More abilities that are only active after parries, shield blocks or dodges. Abilities that stack debuffs or add buffs when used in order.

Things like this would make combat more reactive and engaging. Sure you can still just stand there spamming 1 over and over, but paying attention and actually involving yourself in combat makes battles more exciting and... dare I say, fun?
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#90 Jun 16 2011 at 1:24 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
I'm surprised that no one has touched on the real problem with the battle system. It needs more reactive elements. Abilities that only become available when other requirements have been met. More than just 'x amount of tp' on a cooldown timer. More abilities that are only active after parries, shield blocks or dodges. Abilities that stack debuffs or add buffs when used in order.


I think they could even call them Batleregimen, cool name!
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#91 Jun 16 2011 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Update on Archer Auto-Attack as per official forum post.

Quote:
Checked with the dev. team regarding questions about archers and their ability to auto-attack. Auto-attack as a system will initiate when the player is fighting an enemy in close range. While archers will be able to auto-attack enemies while in close range it won't be with arrows. New animations will be implemented to make this all happen!
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#92 Jun 16 2011 at 2:52 AM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
I think they could even call them Batleregimen, cool name!

Skillchains are almost a decade old. I'm not talking about things that take more than one player to initiate. The battle system should be exciting even when you are playing solo.

Quote:
While archers will be able to auto-attack enemies while in close range it won't be with arrows. New animations will be implemented to make this all happen!

Translation: Look, over there... something shiny.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#93 Jun 16 2011 at 2:58 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Quote:
While archers will be able to auto-attack enemies while in close range it won't be with arrows. New animations will be implemented to make this all happen!

Translation: Look, over there... something shiny.

I'm guessing it's going to same thing as they did in Chrono Trigger.
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#94 Jun 16 2011 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
To me it's really just another minor change to the game that won't have any lasting impact.

I'm surprised that no one has touched on the real problem with the battle system. It needs more reactive elements. Abilities that only become available when other requirements have been met. More than just 'x amount of tp' on a cooldown timer. More abilities that are only active after parries, shield blocks or dodges. Abilities that stack debuffs or add buffs when used in order.

Things like this would make combat more reactive and engaging. Sure you can still just stand there spamming 1 over and over, but paying attention and actually involving yourself in combat makes battles more exciting and... dare I say, fun?


Auto-attack is the basis of the new battle system and has a massive impact on the way you fight. The battle system was so broken they have had to re-design it so to say auto-attack is kind of "meh" is just short sighted.

spamming 1 in between using abilities makes strategic fights impossible because you cant use abilities exactly when you need to or when a party member request as they are too busy spamming to chat.
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#95 Jun 16 2011 at 4:01 AM Rating: Good
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BlackstarrStrife wrote:
Auto-attack is the basis of the new battle system and has a massive impact on the way you fight. The battle system was so broken they have had to re-design it so to say auto-attack is kind of "meh" is just short sighted.


I'm not seeing it. This is not a 'new battle system'. It's the same system with auto attack. From the video it basically looks like your tp meter now takes the place of the stamina bar, you get more constant damage, but there is no interruption (except from lag) to normal abilities.

The battle system was broken. I agree with you there, but auto attack does not fix it. There is nothing dynamic about replacing an attack with another attack when the only difference is pressing a button.

BlackstarrStrife wrote:
spamming 1 in between using abilities makes strategic fights impossible because you cant use abilities exactly when you need to or when a party member request as they are too busy spamming to chat.


I disagree. Spamming doesn't mean mashing the same key repeatedly several times a second. It means keeping your abilities on cooldown. Since abilities will still be more powerful than auto attacks, this is likely to happen anyway if people want to maximize damage.

The issue of spamming chat is already resolved by using vent, skype or any other IM/Voice chat.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#97 Jun 16 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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xSanctusx wrote:
bsphil wrote:

Chatting with people isn't exactly easy if you're pressing buttons for combat nonstop. What exactly is fun about pressing the 1 key for 75% of the fight?



Edited, Jun 15th 2011 4:00pm by bsphil


im still on the fence with auto attack because I played XI for years, but really is doing nothing for 75% of the fight better than hitting 1?


Pressing a button should represent a choice. Now I know we all had 2 basic attacks so one could pretend we were choosing between them every time, but we weren't.
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#98 Jun 16 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
Update on Archer Auto-Attack as per official forum post.

Quote:
Checked with the dev. team regarding questions about archers and their ability to auto-attack. Auto-attack as a system will initiate when the player is fighting an enemy in close range. While archers will be able to auto-attack enemies while in close range it won't be with arrows. New animations will be implemented to make this all happen!

So if it won't be using arrows what will they do in close range? Whack the mob with the bow itself? That will be interesting.

FilthMcNasty wrote:
The issue of spamming chat is already resolved by using vent, skype or any other IM/Voice chat.

If that's their solution shouldn't it be built into the game? Having to rely on 3rd party programs to be able to communicate effectively in a game seems kind of silly. I agree that using things like vent can make things a lot smoother but it shouldn't be Vent or GTFO.
#99 Jun 16 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:

I'm not seeing it. This is not a 'new battle system'. It's the same system with auto attack. From the video it basically looks like your tp meter now takes the place of the stamina bar, you get more constant damage, but there is no interruption (except from lag) to normal abilities.

The battle system was broken. I agree with you there, but auto attack does not fix it. There is nothing dynamic about replacing an attack with another attack when the only difference is pressing a button.


I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. You make a good point, but I think if you think the core battle system is "broken", then maybe the game just isn't for you. Adding Auto-attack allows players to focus more on communicating and using abilities rather than dedicating time to picking "attack" to build tp. This simple change alone means 2 major things:

1. Battle Regimens will be infinitely easier to execute, meaning that if these get tweaked / playerbase adopts them in group settings, it adds a whole new element to the game. Think about all those behests you do with spam killing...if they change things like they've said they are (re-evaluate damage formulas, increase mob defense, etc), teamwork in behests will be crucial.

2. Every class can focus exclusively on what abilities they want to execute. Mages will cast more magic. Gladiators will be better at using hate control and defensive abilities. Other classes will also benefit from this.

One caveat: Does this fix some of the latency issues and other "bugs"? Nope. But adding auto-attack does change the game beyond just spamming an attack button over and over in more ways than one.

Side Note: Anyone else notice the new BG music in La noscea? I wonder if thats a change coming soon too.
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#100 Jun 16 2011 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
xSanctusx wrote:
bsphil wrote:

Chatting with people isn't exactly easy if you're pressing buttons for combat nonstop. What exactly is fun about pressing the 1 key for 75% of the fight?



Edited, Jun 15th 2011 4:00pm by bsphil


im still on the fence with auto attack because I played XI for years, but really is doing nothing for 75% of the fight better than hitting 1?
That assumes that you'd be doing nothing if it weren't for needing to hit 1. This allows people to actually talk, although at this point there are so few people left to talk to...
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#101 Jun 16 2011 at 12:05 PM Rating: Excellent
18 posts
MerylStryfe wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:

I'm not seeing it. This is not a 'new battle system'. It's the same system with auto attack. From the video it basically looks like your tp meter now takes the place of the stamina bar, you get more constant damage, but there is no interruption (except from lag) to normal abilities.

The battle system was broken. I agree with you there, but auto attack does not fix it. There is nothing dynamic about replacing an attack with another attack when the only difference is pressing a button.


I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. You make a good point, but I think if you think the core battle system is "broken", then maybe the game just isn't for you. Adding Auto-attack allows players to focus more on communicating and using abilities rather than dedicating time to picking "attack" to build tp. This simple change alone means 2 major things:

1. Battle Regimens will be infinitely easier to execute, meaning that if these get tweaked / playerbase adopts them in group settings, it adds a whole new element to the game. Think about all those behests you do with spam killing...if they change things like they've said they are (re-evaluate damage formulas, increase mob defense, etc), teamwork in behests will be crucial.

2. Every class can focus exclusively on what abilities they want to execute. Mages will cast more magic. Gladiators will be better at using hate control and defensive abilities. Other classes will also benefit from this.

One caveat: Does this fix some of the latency issues and other "bugs"? Nope. But adding auto-attack does change the game beyond just spamming an attack button over and over in more ways than one.

Side Note: Anyone else notice the new BG music in La noscea? I wonder if thats a change coming soon too.


I think the other point that needs to be made is that auto-attack is one part of the whole battle reform outline. Auto-attack, like you said, shifts the focus from spending the whole time managing yourself to use "Normal" attacks between timed skills an abilities. To allowing you to actively see what other people are doing and react to each other. Using FFXI as an example, (not to gloat) I was really good at closing skillchains on the fly because I was able to pay attention not just to my character, but to my team mates as well. Assuming how they rework/fix battle regimens, this itself will become a big deal.

Then when you think about the ability reworkings themselves, A complete enmity algorithm rework, probable moving and restructuring of existing abilities and re-emphasis on "class uniqueness" with these changes. and then going even further with the possibilities presented with the job system. There is a lot being reworked other than just Auto-attack.

And that brings me to another point I want to make. Even though the video showed off mainly nifty UI changes and obviously auto attack and new battle animations, I don't think we should assume that the video itself is everything that's going to change in 1.18. That's all that's just been announced officially with details. Matsui and Yoshida themselves have said that with the release of the new dungeon and raid content, the majority of their new systems will have to be implemented to complement their arrival. Would be kind of odd if they released all these new dungeons and content, only to have to completely re-balance the instances again to accommodate for new changes that they already had planned to the battle system (or releasing the instances balanced for the new changes, without even adding most of the new changes).

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