Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Increased capacity for retainers in wards 1.18Follow

#1 Jun 16 2011 at 1:51 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
Offical forum post.

Quote:
In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.


It seems that I missread the post originally, Changing title tor eflect this.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 8:27am by Hugus
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#2 Jun 16 2011 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
**
589 posts
OK, I've read that three times and it still doesn't make sense.

Are we getting another free retainer then? What does it mean by system reset - if there are too many retainers placed in a ward what will this "reset" do - if that is in fact what it means.

I'm confused.com
____________________________
Solomon Grundy | Born on a Monday | Excalibur Server | Abyss: Welcome to a Higher Quality of Nerding™
#3 Jun 16 2011 at 2:20 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
41 posts
Title is misleading. All that means is that wards are gonna be able to hold more retainers overall. We're still only going to have 2 retainers.
#4 Jun 16 2011 at 2:27 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
Hyena wrote:
Title is misleading. All that means is that wards are gonna be able to hold more retainers overall. We're still only going to have 2 retainers.


I re-read the post and I think you might be right, changing thread title tor eflect this, my apologies.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 8:28am by Hugus
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#5 Jun 16 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
SolomonGrundy wrote:
OK, I've read that three times and it still doesn't make sense.

Are we getting another free retainer then? What does it mean by system reset - if there are too many retainers placed in a ward what will this "reset" do - if that is in fact what it means.

I'm confused.com


Using low numbers for clarity, I think SE is saying:

The wards used to be able to hold 5 retainers; now they can hold 10 retainers. However, the wards can still reach a maximum capacity, even though the maximum number allowed in them has been increased. In order to address this, we will devise a system that resets retainers on purpose.

Or, in other words, that the poorly designed, inefficient market wards will be sticking around, and they still will have a limit to the number of people who can sell at once, and they still will be prone to resets... but it will be on purpose after 1.18.

Another job well done. >_>
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#6 Jun 16 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
97 posts
Do you think that means they will also make the Ward itself Larger? The retainers are already clumped together, so I am curious to see what the increase in retainers will really be composed of.
#7 Jun 16 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
**
589 posts
So now I finally understand why my Retainers periodically disappear.

Can I haz AH puh-leese?
____________________________
Solomon Grundy | Born on a Monday | Excalibur Server | Abyss: Welcome to a Higher Quality of Nerding™
#8 Jun 16 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
So SE sets up a market system that is based on units selling player's items on screen. they hold them in an area that will crash after X units are placed. Somehow the best way to deal with this is to let us now put in X + Y units before it all crashes? I'm assuming their checks and balances system will somehow prioritize the retainers that get despawned as new ones come in some how. yeah, lets just have that system that doesn't rely on filling a room with zombies as an effort to pretend there is character interaction going on.
____________________________


#9 Jun 16 2011 at 9:49 AM Rating: Decent
*
120 posts
Just add a ****** Auction house...
#10 Jun 16 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
*
88 posts
everyone whining for an AH needs to remember there was a time limit to the amount of time your item could spend on auction too. If it didnt sell in a certain time it was sent back to you, how is this different than retainers resetting. In XI it was after a week if I remember correctly, weekly ward resets are not a big deal
____________________________

-Sanctus-
World Of Warcraft: ~Retired~
Sanctuss - 45 Orc Shaman - Lightnings Blade
Evokur - 70 Blood Elf Warlock - Mug'Thol

Final Fantasy 11: ~Retired~
|Quetzalcoatl|
WHM40 SMN80 PLD62 BRD33 WAR31 NIN18 DRG25 BLM15
Elvaan Male
Sandoria Rank 8
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?152468
Avatars: O Fenrir: O

#11 Jun 16 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
Also the wards dont crash, they simply stop allowing more retainers into it
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#12 Jun 16 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Default
*
120 posts
An Auction House is just easier and faster thats why.
#13 Jun 16 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
xSanctusx wrote:
everyone whining for an AH needs to remember there was a time limit to the amount of time your item could spend on auction too. If it didnt sell in a certain time it was sent back to you, how is this different than retainers resetting. In XI it was after a week if I remember correctly, weekly ward resets are not a big deal


It's a stupid system. It was always a stupid system. If you put something on the AH, everyone could always see it and it was always put in the right area, so as long as you weren't dumb and listed for too high (or got undercut), it sold. In the wards, there are OFTEN times where the ward you want to use is full, and therefore you put it elsewhere and get taxed for it. It's ridiculous, and their solution is to increase ward size... but still reset them if they get full. That seems like a very backwards solution if you ask me.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#14 Jun 16 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
***
2,010 posts
Quote:
everyone whining for an AH needs to remember there was a time limit to the amount of time your item could spend on auction too. If it didnt sell in a certain time it was sent back to you, how is this different than retainers resetting. In XI it was after a week if I remember correctly, weekly ward resets are not a big deal


A time limit isn't the same as a reset - and these retainers were supposed to be modeled after the bazaars that were in FFXI and the only resets that happened there was if you lost connection. Sure everyone can just leave their character logged in with their true bazaars - let's just bog everything down even more. Go for it. Zombie NPC + zombie characters = fun game, right?

It does beg the question though: if they are still having issues even after the game has hemorrhaged what is arguably at least half of the original subs (if not more), then it can't have been coded very well to begin with. I doubt that it's truly capacity that is the underlying issue here.
#16 Jun 16 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
*
88 posts
BartelX wrote:
It's a stupid system. It was always a stupid system. If you put something on the AH, everyone could always see it and it was always put in the right area, so as long as you weren't dumb and listed for too high (or got undercut), it sold. In the wards, there are OFTEN times where the ward you want to use is full, and therefore you put it elsewhere and get taxed for it. It's ridiculous, and their solution is to increase ward size... but still reset them if they get full. That seems like a very backwards solution if you ask me.


god forbid u lose 3% more to taxes (5% incorrect ward, 2% correct ward), its about the only gil sink in the game other than craft grinding at the moment anyway.

Torrence wrote:
A time limit isn't the same as a reset - and these retainers were supposed to be modeled after the bazaars that were in FFXI and the only resets that happened there was if you lost connection. Sure everyone can just leave their character logged in with their true bazaars - let's just bog everything down even more. Go for it. Zombie NPC + zombie characters = fun game, right?

It does beg the question though: if they are still having issues even after the game has hemorrhaged what is arguably at least half of the original subs (if not more), then it can't have been coded very well to begin with. I doubt that it's truly capacity that is the underlying issue here.


i'm not talking about the current ward resets. Im talking about SE stating that when they increase ward capacity they will be implementing something to make sure someone who quit or isnt selling anything anymore doesnt leave their retainer in the ward forever. hence the "Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup." - SE

That is what I was comparing the AH time limit on items with, not the random crashes due to server problems

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 12:47pm by xSanctusx
____________________________

-Sanctus-
World Of Warcraft: ~Retired~
Sanctuss - 45 Orc Shaman - Lightnings Blade
Evokur - 70 Blood Elf Warlock - Mug'Thol

Final Fantasy 11: ~Retired~
|Quetzalcoatl|
WHM40 SMN80 PLD62 BRD33 WAR31 NIN18 DRG25 BLM15
Elvaan Male
Sandoria Rank 8
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?152468
Avatars: O Fenrir: O

#17 Jun 16 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Good
*
53 posts
I've never been one to criticize the Wards too much because I could see a nice potential in them. However it seems like such a headache to simply organize and run the Wards that I really have to question all the dedication they're putting into them.

Instead of expanding on the idea and turning the retainers into something truly more useful than a pack mule, they have to dedicate all their energy on simply trying to stabilize the **** Wards even almost a year after launch? And that's their new solution? Reseting the Wards on purpose to make space for others? That just screams to me that they've bitten off more than they can chew with the Wards.

What will happen if this game manages some kind of resurrection and hits a few hundred thousand/a million subscribers? They can barely handle a thousand people per server using the system right now...

An Auction House would have been so much simpler, cleaner and easier to expand on with fresh ideas...
____________________________
FFXI - Bruknar - WAR75 MNK75 BLM75 NIN75 SAM75 WHM75 DRK75 BRD75 RNG75
Lakshmi Server.
FFXIV - Bruknar Dinendal - Istory.
#18 Jun 16 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Decent
*
182 posts
I posted this on the official forums, let me know what you guys think. Also I wanna say I'm neither for or against an AH. I'm more "let's try to see if we can get this to work" than "this is stupid tear it down". Obviously if the MWs aren't improve then maybe we should move on to an AH.


Quote:
Instead of yelling they should drop the Market Wards, we(the players) should be offering suggestions to make it better. Now I don't think the MW is perfect, I really think the UI could be improved upon, so these are my suggestions for the MWs.


First, get rid of the separate specific wards, just turn them into generic wards numbered from 1 to 20, also have a tax for every ward, only 10%. Except for the Menders Ward, but I'll get to that in a bit. I.E. Spellcraft Ward, Battlecraft Ward -> Ward 1, Ward 2

Most people throw their retainer in the wrong ward anyway, so just get rid of it. Each of these wards should hold at least 300 retainers. That should give a server population of 3000 with 5 retainers each more than enough space across the three cities.

Second, levy a lease tax. By doing this you can give every retainer their own small booth. Just increase the length of the hallways to hold up to 300 small booths. The tax would be only about 1000-2000 gil every Earth week. This should reduce the clutter in the hallways and bring about a Gil sink.

Third, improve accessing the wards and the retainers. I think beside the path leading to the wards and inside the wards, there should be a booth where you handle searching for items and maintaining your retainer. I think it looks pretty bad that your character runs up to an invisible wall and you do your searches from there. The only thing that should pop up is which ward you want to go to. Anyway here's how the counter would work:

Talk the person at the counter

6 choices pop up: Search Wards, Manage Retainers, Add Retainers, Remove Retainers, Menders Ward, Leave.

When you select Search Wards, you can search by Category like we do now or type in the item you want to find. When you find the item you're looking for, a list shows you pops up showing this things in this order: which ward it's in, the retainer's name, the price, and the item's quality(NQ,HQ). You can select up to 10 items to put into a "queue" so you don't have to take note of which wards they're in. Pink stars still appear above the retainer's head but those stars also appear only on retainer's you put into your queue and disappear after you view that retainer. Also little pink stars appear next to the ward names when you're going to get your items, so you don't have to keep track of which ward the retainer you're looking for is in.

When you select Manage Retainers, a list pops up with the with names of your retainers and their locations. Select a retainer, then a their inventory list comes up and so does yours and you can add items from your inventory to their bazaar or to their storage. Also you can see the last 20 items they sold. No need to go searching for you retainer.

When you select Add Retainers, a list of retainers not currently in a ward can be added to a ward. Just select the retainer, pay the lease tax for one week or up to four weeks if you don't want to keep coming back every week to pay the lease tax, then your retainer is randomly assigned to a ward. That's it!

When you select Remove Retainers, a list of retainers currently in the wards is listed, just select a retainer to remove it from a ward.

When you select Menders Ward, a list comes up with your retainers not in a ward, select a retainer, select items you need repaired(only items with a condition lower than 100 can be added), assign what you want to pay or trade, then you're done. The retainer is placed into the Menders Wards and it's kept there for only one Earth day.

Leave, is self-explanatory.

To get a retainer you still have to go to the Adventurer's Guild, also the retainer bells would allow you to add or remove your retainers from the wards and you can manage them from there as well.

Please let me know if I made any grammatical/spelling mistakes and leave comments or suggestions on how on to improve my idea or how it may not work. Thanks for reading.
____________________________
?
#19 Jun 16 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
*
182 posts
Of course I get rated down. Not even a rebuttal.

Whatever I'm done with this site. It's dead anyway. Time for deletion or "banning" since this site won't let you delete an account.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 2:50pm by TerraSonicX
____________________________
?
#20 Jun 16 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
TerraSonicX wrote:
Of course I get rated down. Not even a rebuttal.

Whatever I'm done with this site. It's dead anyway. Time for deletion or "banning" since this site won't let you delete an account.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 2:50pm by TerraSonicX


Your suggestion ignores the most important problem with the market wards. its a room that is filled with hundreds of NPCs which is prone to crashing. Having retainers and wards in exchange for having the market place available in the main world, accessible through a few windows/NPCs etc offers no benefits. It does not streamline the buying process, It does not fight market manipulation, it doesn't even offer a trading/bartering feel because you're only adding to the number of NPCs players deal with. So not only does it do no good, it also adds a huge time sink to what many people consider a chore and not a real gameplay activity, and it crashes which actually disrupts the market and players abilities to sell/buy their items.

Market wards were a dumb idea when we found out about them. We've sat here waiting them out and they have ranged from crashing every few days and disrupting the game economy, to at best being only slightly worse than if the entire thing was accessible through an AH window (travel and load times). Give them a chance, we did. They are still awful. This solution will not make the idea any better. Seriously, its time, fix that search window appears instead of the option to teleport into the wards, items bought can go ahead and show up in a retainers inventory, we can totally pretend that they're doing something back there. We can send our retainers into the wards from any of the bells without having to go in there ourselves.
____________________________


#21TerraSonicX, Posted: Jun 16 2011 at 2:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) God thank you, that's all I wanted. Now my account can be banned in peace. Rate up for you.
#22 Jun 16 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Good
******
48,703 posts
Complaining about karma tends to make you a target because those people know it gets under your skin.
Screenshot
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#23 Jun 16 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Default
*
182 posts
lolgaxe wrote:
Complaining about karma tends to make you a target because those people know it gets under your skin.
[img=25116]


You're right, but I don't care anymore. I wish they hurry up and ban this account.
____________________________
?
#24 Jun 16 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
TerraSonicX wrote:
Of course I get rated down. Not even a rebuttal.

Whatever I'm done with this site. It's dead anyway. Time for deletion or "banning" since this site won't let you delete an account.
Your suggestion ignores the most important problem with the market wards. its a room that is filled with hundreds of NPCs which is prone to crashing. Having retainers and wards in exchange for having the market place available in the main world, accessible through a few windows/NPCs etc offers no benefits. It does not streamline the buying process, It does not fight market manipulation, it doesn't even offer a trading/bartering feel because you're only adding to the number of NPCs players deal with. So not only does it do no good, it also adds a huge time sink to what many people consider a chore and not a real gameplay activity, and it crashes which actually disrupts the market and players abilities to sell/buy their items.

Market wards were a dumb idea when we found out about them. We've sat here waiting them out and they have ranged from crashing every few days and disrupting the game economy, to at best being only slightly worse than if the entire thing was accessible through an AH window (travel and load times). Give them a chance, we did. They are still awful. This solution will not make the idea any better. Seriously, its time, fix that search window appears instead of the option to teleport into the wards, items bought can go ahead and show up in a retainers inventory, we can totally pretend that they're doing something back there. We can send our retainers into the wards from any of the bells without having to go in there ourselves.
Very true. Since SE isn't really keen on trashing an idea they like, my idea would be to turn the market wards into the rolanberry mart of FFXIV (or whichever of the 3 zones your server used). No taxes, no fees, just a place for bazaars to sit. Then, implement a(n) <insert name for Auction House equivalent here> for standard market transactions.

And before anyone ***** themselves, no, I do not want an exact copy of the FFXI AH. It did some things well, it did others poorly. Like everything else XIV should've been, SE should've built upon some of the core concepts that worked well from the AH while streamlining the less favorable/efficient/useful parts. For example, automatically coloring gear that can be used by your current job and current level is a GOOD IDEA. Only being able to sell one item or an entire stack at a time is a BAD IDEA. Keep the good, fix the bad. Just throwing everything out for the sake of being different causes you to lose good ideas and generate completely new bad ideas.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#25 Jun 16 2011 at 4:22 PM Rating: Good
Sage
Avatar
*
197 posts
So, if more players purchase XIV, PS3 players finally start playing, playerbase increases - we will get another wards enlargement and retainers resetting after even higher critical mass has accumulated?

Seems like postponing the inevitable, just devs giving the time to themselves to figure out what to really do with the retainer system. And I'm betting the only reason they're still hanging onto it is the potential $$$ each new retainer might bring them in the distant future.
Now, I've swallowed the "petty" price for an alt in XI (petty yes, but I **** right earned all my money), I've swallowed it here too, they gave us charity embodied in a second retainer, but for a game that's supposed to have a monthly subscription fee eventually, in 2011 and onwards, is just making me feel I'm being ripped off on my holiday for a piece of a plaster souvenir figurine at the local market by a toothless peddler. Maybe when we get mog houses you can have multiple mogs take care of your plants or whatnot, for another petty price.
#26 Jun 16 2011 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
*
120 posts
TerraSonicX wrote:
Of course I get rated down. Not even a rebuttal.

Whatever I'm done with this site. It's dead anyway. Time for deletion or "banning" since this site won't let you delete an account.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 2:50pm by TerraSonicX


Who really cares if you're rated down? Half the humps in this forum care too much about this rating down thing and its silly lol. Speak your god **** mind.

Briker wrote:
So, if more players purchase XIV, PS3 players finally start playing, playerbase increases - we will get another wards enlargement and retainers resetting after even higher critical mass has accumulated?

Seems like postponing the inevitable, just devs giving the time to themselves to figure out what to really do with the retainer system. And I'm betting the only reason they're still hanging onto it is the potential $$$ each new retainer might bring them in the distant future.
Now, I've swallowed the "petty" price for an alt in XI (petty yes, but I **** right earned all my money), I've swallowed it here too, they gave us charity embodied in a second retainer, but for a game that's supposed to have a monthly subscription fee eventually, in 2011 and onwards, is just making me feel I'm being ripped off on my holiday for a piece of a plaster souvenir figurine at the local market by a toothless peddler. Maybe when we get mog houses you can have multiple mogs take care of your plants or whatnot, for another petty price.


I agree, theyre just waiting to see what to actually do with the system. I think the Auction House is perfect but just take out the price history and tax. Problem solved.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 6:56pm by VitaminD2112
#27 Jun 16 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
TerraSonicX wrote:
I don't care anymore. I wish they hurry up and ban this account.


You do realize that you can stop posting without being banned, right? Having an account with an online forum is not like having a beast in your living room - you do not have to feed it every day.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#28 Jun 16 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
***
1,949 posts
Why do people get the impression they'll reset the entire ward periodically?

"A type of system of checks" could mean that all empty retainers are removed, and that any retainer that didn't sell a thing in 7 days is also reset -- measures to prevent the ward from having too many NPCs that are useless (nothing to sell) or that are selling nothing (too expensive, only have 9,999,999,999 gil dream gear left on them, etc.)

I don't really want to defend the game and designers too much, but you folks are crying foul before you even know the details of the system.
____________________________
FFXIV: Cloe Delisle Scholar, officer of the SWAGGER Free company, Sargatanas server.
#29 Jun 16 2011 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
136 posts
Docent42 wrote:
Why do people get the impression they'll reset the entire ward periodically?

"A type of system of checks" could mean that all empty retainers are removed, and that any retainer that didn't sell a thing in 7 days is also reset -- measures to prevent the ward from having too many NPCs that are useless (nothing to sell) or that are selling nothing (too expensive, only have 9,999,999,999 gil dream gear left on them, etc.)

I don't really want to defend the game and designers too much, but you folks are crying foul before you even know the details of the system.


I agree with you, and the only skepticism i have to add is i doubt SE actually reveal the details of how the retainers will be reset, but yeah i have no problem with a retainer only remaining active for a few days at a time.

The thing i disliked most about the AH was the price of the last item sold was on display, while this may sound like a positive thing it doesn't give the less popular items a chance to renew themselves economically. It also makes it harder for crafters to easily read the market and gives the less knowledgeable sellers a chance to interpret an items worth.
#30 Jun 16 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
Docent42 wrote:
Why do people get the impression they'll reset the entire ward periodically?

"A type of system of checks" could mean that all empty retainers are removed, and that any retainer that didn't sell a thing in 7 days is also reset -- measures to prevent the ward from having too many NPCs that are useless (nothing to sell) or that are selling nothing (too expensive, only have 9,999,999,999 gil dream gear left on them, etc.)


Now that would be a good idea. If SE's system is actually intelligently designed (like your suggestion), then it could alleviate a great deal of strain on the wards as it disconnects retainers who are clearly only taking up precious space.

I think many people read:

we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup

and assumed the worst (I know I did), which is entirely justifiable given their current record; until now, I hadn't seen a way of reading that statement in a more positive light, though. Let's hope their system of "checks and balances" actually moves more in the direction you suggest, as that would certainly be welcome.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#31 Jun 16 2011 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
**
351 posts
xSanctusx wrote:
everyone whining for an AH needs to remember there was a time limit to the amount of time your item could spend on auction too. If it didnt sell in a certain time it was sent back to you, how is this different than retainers resetting.


At least it served as an indication that your item was no longer for sale. Presently, you have no idea if your retainer has been kicked or not until you make the journey to the crowded ward you left it in and discover it's no longer standing there. Also, when that happens, it's not just one item no longer for sale, it's all of them.

For that matter, you also have no idea if your retainer's items sold and has free slots open for new items. At least with FFXI's delivery system, you'd know the state of your auction house items from any Mog House or Nomad Moogle, not just the auction house itself.

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 8:57pm by ForceOfMeh
#32 Jun 16 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
Docent42 wrote:
Why do people get the impression they'll reset the entire ward periodically?

"A type of system of checks" could mean that all empty retainers are removed, and that any retainer that didn't sell a thing in 7 days is also reset -- measures to prevent the ward from having too many NPCs that are useless (nothing to sell) or that are selling nothing (too expensive, only have 9,999,999,999 gil dream gear left on them, etc.)

I don't really want to defend the game and designers too much, but you folks are crying foul before you even know the details of the system.


Well there is still 2 problems that we have to choose from. Eventually, when there are too many sellers, even excluding non-legit sellers (ie the 9,999,999,999 guys), the wards will still crash.

Alternately, if they have a max level of retainers, and will just cycle the oldest retainers (even after removing the max price guys), they will be removing legit sellers from the market, also not really a great option.

I know what I'm told. If they somehow do come up with some system thats hurray for them. But they have said they're going to simply raise the ceiling (not dealing with the problem), and have given the non descript, "we have something else in mind", I'm crying foul because they've announced a fix that doesn't fix the problem, (and more importantly, bring more attention to why their system was stupid to begin with).

Edited, Jun 16th 2011 9:02pm by KujaKoF
____________________________


#33 Jun 16 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Good
***
1,949 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
Eventually, when there are too many sellers, even excluding non-legit sellers, the wards will still crash.

Well, the way I read their note is that not only are they increasing ward capacity from say, 500 to 1,000, but they're going to make sure that 1,000 retainers won't crash the wards.

KujaKoF wrote:
Alternately, if they have a max level of retainers, and will just cycle the oldest retainers (even after removing the max price guys), they will be removing legit sellers from the market, also not really a great option.

I really doubt they'll simply go by the date they were inserted, and my hopes is that they don't automatically eject a retainer because the cap was reached.

However, even in a perfect situation scenario, a hard limit, no matter how high, as to have some kind of cleanup method; without that, you could find yourself in a situation where you have all 1,000 slots of every ward taken by players who have quit 3 months ago, hence why they'd mention "But we're going to have a system to lower the amount of retainers". They haven't given details. It could be something simple like activity (Did you sell anything in X days), inventory (do you still have things for sale?), or player activity (did the owner of the retainer log in in X days). There are more complicated ones, like "How often did your goods come up in the search results?", which would eventually weed out people who price so high that they don't even show up, etc.

FFXI's auction house limited it to 7 items for sale per character, and extra character meant extra content IDs and fees. That essentially lowers the strain per server (limited amount of items on sale at a time), but also means that players with tons of characters and more strain would also contribute more to the server upkeep -- a pretty good deal for Square if you ask me.

Ultima Online designers actually had lots of issues with the fact they didn't enforce enough limits on the game during its first months/years, and they had to keep upgrading their servers because they found some players were keeping ten of thousands of shirts and stuff in their bank. There's a pretty good read about it over there: http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html

Anyway, I never really cared or hated the wards, and I'm interested to see how they plan to increase their stability and solve longer-term issues. I'm a bit confused why they don't simply instance new wards when some of them start reaching capacity limit...
____________________________
FFXIV: Cloe Delisle Scholar, officer of the SWAGGER Free company, Sargatanas server.
#34 Jun 16 2011 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
Docent42 wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
Eventually, when there are too many sellers, even excluding non-legit sellers, the wards will still crash.

Well, the way I read their note is that not only are they increasing ward capacity from say, 500 to 1,000, but they're going to make sure that 1,000 retainers won't crash the wards.

KujaKoF wrote:
Alternately, if they have a max level of retainers, and will just cycle the oldest retainers (even after removing the max price guys), they will be removing legit sellers from the market, also not really a great option.

I really doubt they'll simply go by the date they were inserted, and my hopes is that they don't automatically eject a retainer because the cap was reached.

However, even in a perfect situation scenario, a hard limit, no matter how high, as to have some kind of cleanup method; without that, you could find yourself in a situation where you have all 1,000 slots of every ward taken by players who have quit 3 months ago, hence why they'd mention "But we're going to have a system to lower the amount of retainers". They haven't given details. It could be something simple like activity (Did you sell anything in X days), inventory (do you still have things for sale?), or player activity (did the owner of the retainer log in in X days). There are more complicated ones, like "How often did your goods come up in the search results?", which would eventually weed out people who price so high that they don't even show up, etc.

FFXI's auction house limited it to 7 items for sale per character, and extra character meant extra content IDs and fees. That essentially lowers the strain per server (limited amount of items on sale at a time), but also means that players with tons of characters and more strain would also contribute more to the server upkeep -- a pretty good deal for Square if you ask me.

Ultima Online designers actually had lots of issues with the fact they didn't enforce enough limits on the game during its first months/years, and they had to keep upgrading their servers because they found some players were keeping ten of thousands of shirts and stuff in their bank. There's a pretty good read about it over there: http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html

Anyway, I never really cared or hated the wards, and I'm interested to see how they plan to increase their stability and solve longer-term issues. I'm a bit confused why they don't simply instance new wards when some of them start reaching capacity limit...


We have no idea what their plan is, i just picked a few ideas off the top of my head. My point was, that every solution still leaves a problem. If they put a hard cap on the ward, they are denying market access to some people. If they do not put a cap, the wards will fill until they crash. If they put in a cap and try some method to rotate out people, you're going to have some mixture of the two, either still being full after booting undesirable retainers, or booting some amount of people who deserve their spot so to speak. What I'm trying to say there are inherent problems that are derived from using a system that requires NPC and PC entities.

See what you mentioned from FFXI is completely fine. That is a universal AH rule that all players have to live by, its fair for everyone. If you start booting people conditionally, say those who don't log in often, or don't sell popular things etc, you're creating competitive advantages. and while I don't like to play the boogeyman card often, we all know how good RMT guys are at capitalizing on competitive advantages.

Really, I'm just irked that their solution to an inherent problem with their crappy ward system isn't a solution at all. rather than find a way to prevent the wards/game market place from crashing at a certain activity level, their answer is to raise the activity level required to crash it, and put in measures to help prevent players from achieving it.
____________________________


#35 Jun 16 2011 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
351 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
My point was, that every solution still leaves a problem. If they put a hard cap on the ward, they are denying market access to some people. If they do not put a cap, the wards will fill until they crash. If they put in a cap and try some method to rotate out people, you're going to have some mixture of the two, either still being full after booting undesirable retainers, or booting some amount of people who deserve their spot so to speak. What I'm trying to say there are inherent problems that are derived from using a system that requires NPC and PC entities.


Furthermore, these are problems we're seeing when there's hardly anyone playing the game. Imagine if it ever picked up more subs, it would be crushed under the weight even if they put some restrictions down to stem the tide.

I can't see how cramming wards full of hundreds of retainers is ever going to work in the long term. An auction house + delivery system seems inevitable, but it's frustrating it's taking so long.
#36 Jun 17 2011 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
3,226 posts
Quote:
In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.
____________________________
w(°o°)w
#37 Jun 17 2011 at 1:46 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
To be honest I haven't noticed a MW crash in weeks now, even after the last patch both my retainers were present in the wards.

I know some (most) of you might not like this suggestion but if would help in both keeping wards light and dispearsing the comunity:

Make your retainers city bound and only allow 1 per city. This way the ammount of retainers in Ul'Dah would probbaly gp down to half of it's current load.
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#38 Jun 17 2011 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
**
589 posts
Hugus wrote:
To be honest I haven't noticed a MW crash in weeks now, even after the last patch both my retainers were present in the wards.

I know some (most) of you might not like this suggestion but if would help in both keeping wards light and dispearsing the comunity:

Make your retainers city bound and only allow 1 per city. This way the ammount of retainers in Ul'Dah would probbaly gp down to half of it's current load.


The one glaring flaw there is I use one retainer to sell things and another to store. Using your suggestion if I wanted to sell in the most active market (Ul'dah) I would have to place my storage retainer in LL or Grid, which is just not practical.
____________________________
Solomon Grundy | Born on a Monday | Excalibur Server | Abyss: Welcome to a Higher Quality of Nerding™
#39 Jun 17 2011 at 6:24 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
SolomonGrundy wrote:
Hugus wrote:
To be honest I haven't noticed a MW crash in weeks now, even after the last patch both my retainers were present in the wards.

I know some (most) of you might not like this suggestion but if would help in both keeping wards light and dispearsing the comunity:

Make your retainers city bound and only allow 1 per city. This way the ammount of retainers in Ul'Dah would probbaly gp down to half of it's current load.


The one glaring flaw there is I use one retainer to sell things and another to store. Using your suggestion if I wanted to sell in the most active market (Ul'dah) I would have to place my storage retainer in LL or Grid, which is just not practical.


Quite the oposite, you can be in Ul'Dah Adventurers guild and access the content in your retainer in LL, just it wont actually stay in the wards.

If you're only using that retainer for storage this would be no problem for you.
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#40 Jun 17 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
Hugus wrote:
To be honest I haven't noticed a MW crash in weeks now, even after the last patch both my retainers were present in the wards.

I know some (most) of you might not like this suggestion but if would help in both keeping wards light and dispearsing the comunity:

Make your retainers city bound and only allow 1 per city. This way the ammount of retainers in Ul'Dah would probbaly gp down to half of it's current load.


It would, but then we'd have the exact same problem if/when that cities population doubles. Its not a fix, its a band aid.
____________________________


#41 Jun 18 2011 at 7:42 PM Rating: Good
*
200 posts
if you think the wards suck now wait till the population increases over 2000+. on selbina the Battlecraft ward and the armorer ward are almost impossible to get into and the fact that at least 20 retainers in the wards belong to known bots doesn't help.

the other issue is there a virtually zero retainers used in Gridania or Limsa Lominsa, a fault at the Games core is to blame for that. Ul'dah shouldn't be a Quest hub and a Starter City they should have randomized the location of the Main quests by starting geography if i started in Gridania then my main quest should start in Limsa Lominsa if i started in Ul'dah my Main should start in Gridania if i started in Limsa Lominsa my main quest should start in Ul'dah. instead we all got pointed to uldah so it became the most popular place to start.









Edited, Jun 18th 2011 9:59pm by FelixValmont
____________________________


#42 Jun 18 2011 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
FelixValmont wrote:
if you think the wards suck now wait till the population increases over 2000+. on selbina the Battlecraft ward and the armorer ward are almost impossible to get into and the fact that at least 20 retainers in the wards belong to known bots doesn't help.


It's like an auction house but with walking! and zoning! and player limits! and crashes! and lag!

And, best of all, RMT still use it just as well as anything!
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#43 Jun 18 2011 at 9:49 PM Rating: Excellent
****
6,898 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
And, best of all, RMT still use it just as well as anything!


That's the kicker about FFXIV. They don't put in a mail system, don't put in an auction house, don't put in ANYTHING that could cause RMT... yet RMT run rampant through the game unchecked. Go figure.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#44 Jun 18 2011 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
BartelX wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
And, best of all, RMT still use it just as well as anything!


That's the kicker about FFXIV. They don't put in a mail system, don't put in an auction house, don't put in ANYTHING that could cause RMT... yet RMT run rampant through the game unchecked. Go figure.


Which goes to show how SE (and many players aswell) have no idea how RMT actually manage to dominate game economies like they do.

1 guy 2 hours a day < 1 guy 12 hours a day < 20 guys 12 hours a day.
____________________________


This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 22 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (22)