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AOE TOGGLE IS GONNA BE SCRAPPED!!! <3Follow

#52 Jun 22 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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My CON can't be more than rank 18 or something, but I only ever equipped one or two damaging spells at the most. Having to spend the points equipping more spells sounds annoying.
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#53 Jun 22 2011 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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They did it! They fixed FFXIV!

Keep this thread going, it definitely warrants a third page of discussion. The miracle patch is here!
#54 Jun 22 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Default
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yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.

they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to how to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^

Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 4:10pm by pixelpop
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#55 Jun 22 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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pixelpop wrote:
yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.

they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to hot to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^
Extra confirmation? So this isn't about AoE toggle at all, it's about hitting enter again to cast a spell? That actually makes a ******* more sense that removing the ability to toggle between single targets and AoEs.

These are two points are not mutually exclusive, in case anyone else doesn't get it.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 3:13pm by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
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#56 Jun 22 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.

they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to hot to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^
Extra confirmation? So this isn't about AoE toggle at all, it's about hitting enter again to cast a spell? That actually makes a sh*tton more sense that removing the ability to toggle between single targets and AoEs.

These are two points are not mutually exclusive, in case anyone else doesn't get it.


/rolleyes

If they integrated the toggle somewhere else in the actionbar, like how they did regimen, I would be fine with that. Actually that would be an improvement. But I don't think that would remove the second confirmation, because it would still need to be there for subtargetting? Unless subtargetting is removed too and that would be really really bad...
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#57 Jun 22 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Default
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I have no idea which one SE is planning on removing anymore. Time to sit and wait for a bit more news.
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#58 Jun 22 2011 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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It's funny how more than half of the people in this thread are discussing how many confirmations and button presses this change will or will not add/remove when that is entirely secondary and totally not the reason they're doing this.

The reason, as pointed out by some, is obviously balancing and creating design space for future encounters. You can't have every spell be a potential AoE with absolutely no downside. An AoE Cure should cost a lot more MP and create a lot more enmity so that you can't just spam it. The current spell system renders things like mob AoEs completely pointless when all your regular cures hit the whole group anyway. Likewise, fighting multiple mobs simultaneously is no more taxing for spell casters than fighting a single mob because offensive spells have the same MP costs and effects when AoEd.

The only reason we needed an AoE toggle in the first place is because the targeting system was (and to some extent still is) so dreadfully awful you just couldn't cope without it. Selecting the correct target was such a hassle it just didn't make sense to have to rely on single-target cures.

FFXI had parallel AoE lines for most spell lines. They were less MP efficient when used against single targets and in the case of heals, would often hate bomb you so hard that using them during battle was a huge liability for healers. AoEs could be very powerful but there was a clear trade-off.
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#59 Jun 22 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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pixelpop wrote:
yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.


they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to how to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^

Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 4:10pm by pixelpop



Way to COMPLETELY miss the point. People aren't opposed to this because they're removing an extra confirmation, they're opposed because it most likely means they will be adding single target and AoE target versions of the spells, thus cluttering up your action bars even more, and wasting AP.

Really, the only valid argument I've seen as to why this is beneficial so far is to actually make a substantial difference between single target and AoE, because right now I completely agree that having no penalty for AoE spells is kind of silly. However, they could have easily done this without removing the AoE toggle (increase MP needed for AoE, increase enmity generated by AoE, etc).

If it's too much work or too difficult to press one extra button, and if removing that somehow makes the game more streamlined or fun, well then... honestly, I don't even know what to say to that. It's just ridiculous.
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#61Imaboomer, Posted: Jun 22 2011 at 3:44 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) bartelx are u one of those rare fews who LIKED the old craft UI?
#62 Jun 22 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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BartelX wrote:
If it's too much work or too difficult to press one extra button
It's not just one extra button though, it's one extra button for every single spell you ever cast. Since initiating that only requires one button press in the first place, it doubles the number of actions needed to begin casting a spell. That's not necessarily bad, but if one of the two steps isn't necessary, it shouldn't be there.

By the way, AoE toggle and spellcasting confirmation are not mutually exclusive. I would laugh my *** off if SE got rid of the AoE but didn't remove the confirmation.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 4:50pm by bsphil
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#63 Jun 22 2011 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.


they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to how to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^

Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 4:10pm by pixelpop



Way to COMPLETELY miss the point. People aren't opposed to this because they're removing an extra confirmation, they're opposed because it most likely means they will be adding single target and AoE target versions of the spells, thus cluttering up your action bars even more, and wasting AP.

Really, the only valid argument I've seen as to why this is beneficial so far is to actually make a substantial difference between single target and AoE, because right now I completely agree that having no penalty for AoE spells is kind of silly. However, they could have easily done this without removing the AoE toggle (increase MP needed for AoE, increase enmity generated by AoE, etc).

If it's too much work or too difficult to press one extra button, and if removing that somehow makes the game more streamlined or fun, well then... honestly, I don't even know what to say to that. It's just ridiculous.


I think you are on to something there. There was a mentioning of them retooling their combat equations, and there was concern that they were far more complex then they needed or should be, to the point where developers weren't sure what the effects where. It would make sense if they are simplifying the equations that they would seperate singe and multi-target abilities to further simplify the enmity, cost, duration, and effect of AOE vs single target.

But, that's just an assumption. But it does seem that removing something people where not that up in arms about implies that there are other reasons that they are looking into it.
#64 Jun 22 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.

they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to hot to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^
Extra confirmation? So this isn't about AoE toggle at all, it's about hitting enter again to cast a spell? That actually makes a sh*tton more sense that removing the ability to toggle between single targets and AoEs.

These are two points are not mutually exclusive, in case anyone else doesn't get it.



yeah I have no problem with them getting rid of a confirmation, but AOE toggle is nice. There is a difference.
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#65 Jun 22 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Olorinus wrote:
bsphil wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.

they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to hot to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^
Extra confirmation? So this isn't about AoE toggle at all, it's about hitting enter again to cast a spell? That actually makes a sh*tton more sense that removing the ability to toggle between single targets and AoEs.

These are two points are not mutually exclusive, in case anyone else doesn't get it.



yeah I have no problem with them getting rid of a confirmation, but AOE toggle is nice. There is a difference.


my point is that they are integrated together, in this game you cannot have one without the other because SE is unwilling to make that extra effort.
there are certain things they probably feel they can beat around rather than recode and fix.
the evidence for my theory is that they officially confirmed that theyed rather just scrap it all together.
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#66 Jun 22 2011 at 5:40 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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pixelpop wrote:
The One and Only Olorinus wrote:
bsphil wrote:
pixelpop wrote:
yeah there really isnt much left to argue about

we want the extra confirmations gone, forever

but there are others who for some reason like the confirmation.
to me thats bad gaming, to others its safe.

they will probably hold a poll with two or three options as to hot to go about it when the time comes anyway since there is more than just the option of completely removing it.
either way im getting what i want so im happy ^^
Extra confirmation? So this isn't about AoE toggle at all, it's about hitting enter again to cast a spell? That actually makes a sh*tton more sense that removing the ability to toggle between single targets and AoEs.

These are two points are not mutually exclusive, in case anyone else doesn't get it.



yeah I have no problem with them getting rid of a confirmation, but AOE toggle is nice. There is a difference.


my point is that they are integrated together, in this game you cannot have one without the other because SE is unwilling to make that extra effort.
there are certain things they probably feel they can beat around rather than recode and fix.
the evidence for my theory is that they officially confirmed that theyed rather just scrap it all together.
I tend to post as if SE's programmers are worth a ****, but usually qualify them with "but this is SE so that probably won't be what they do". If I don't, I was probably thinking it at the time and just didn't say it.

If AoE toggle and spellcasting confirmation are actually that intertwined that SE just couldn't be assed to only get rid of one of the two, I'd be seriously concerned for the structure of their source code and more broadly, the future of FFXIV. It's a small detail but still a red flag. If the 'new and improved' dev. team is going to draw the line there, I honestly don't know how they can ever really absolve the game of its major problems.

Actually, that's not entirely true. There are already way too many of those red flags. But, yeah, even worse.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 6:45pm by bsphil
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If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
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#67 Jun 22 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
BartelX wrote:
If it's too much work or too difficult to press one extra button
It's not just one extra button though, it's one extra button for every single spell you ever cast. Since initiating that only requires one button press in the first place, it doubles the number of actions needed to begin casting a spell. That's not necessarily bad, but if one of the two steps isn't necessary, it shouldn't be there.

By the way, AoE toggle and spellcasting confirmation are not mutually exclusive. I would laugh my *** off if SE got rid of the AoE but didn't remove the confirmation.



Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 4:50pm by bsphil


Fine, then just make the toggle separate (a different button/switch) you could turn on and off. You're caught up on this whole button press thing. I'm for streamlining menus as much as the next guy. This just happens to be something where I actually LIKED the current system of being able to toggle AoE, and think that if they changed it ONLY because it was one extra button press, it was the wrong decision. If it was changed to fix the AoE spells (make them more of a risk), then I will grudgingly accept that. =P
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#68 Jun 22 2011 at 9:45 PM Rating: Default
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EDIT: I'm completely confused right now, and I played a CON! Admittedly I haven't touched it in a while, seeing how I concentrated on crafting for the past few months. I'll go back and have a look at the system again. Yeah I have a feeling I have AoE toggle and target confirmation confused.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that single target and AoE cost the same mp, deals the same damage, and has the same potency. If they think they can balance scenarios and dungeons with people able to spam AoE with impunity, then fine by me. If balance is an issue, then it'll have to go.

Edited, Jun 22nd 2011 11:50pm by Enfid
#69 Jun 22 2011 at 11:22 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Fine, then just make the toggle separate (a different button/switch) you could turn on and off.
Yeah, that's kinda my point. It doesn't even have to be a different button. The icon as it appears now could just pop up whenever you press z and fade out after a few seconds. Tack on a small indicator onto the action bar like the battle regime icon to remind you what you have selected and you're set.

It's almost too easy. Literally. I don't get why SE can't figure this stuff out sometimes.
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Almalieque wrote:
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Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#70 Jun 23 2011 at 1:49 AM Rating: Good
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I havent touched DoM so take my coment with a pintch of salt...

I understand that the majority of people against this measure is against it because of the limited space of spells/points they can alocate to their bar and as such make available to fight with.

My point is that this is only another layer of customisation/strategy for players, DoW if they have skilled more than one job will probbaly also have more abilities than space/points available and the same might probably be said of DoM.

This actually brings me to FFXII in which, for me at least, most of the tactics in a fight was done before the actual fight arranging the gambits, the alocation of abilities/spells can be considered the same thing.
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#71 Jun 23 2011 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I liked the ability to toggle aoe effects on and off. I guess this may have to do with the job introduction and moving to the traditional FF –ga spells?

One thing, if they are removing it from spells why don’t you add it to Marauder so we can switch Steadfast on and off as required?
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#72 Jun 23 2011 at 4:17 AM Rating: Decent
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I think this whole thing got blown way out of proportion. All that was said was that the toggle button was going, I'm sure we'll be keeping our AoE in some form or another. One idea I thought of, is that perhaps the classes will lose AOE abilities, but jobs will retain them, fits in line with the 'classes solo, jobs group' mentality that was hinted at.
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#73 Jun 23 2011 at 4:19 AM Rating: Good
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SolomonGrundy wrote:
One thing, if they are removing it from spells why don’t you add it to Marauder so we can switch Steadfast on and off as required?

Because watching you randomly cleaving that level ?? mob that just happens to be walking by you while you were raping that bunny... well, it is about the closest thing I could get to entertainment from this game.
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#74 Jun 23 2011 at 5:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't really get why people prefer pre-fight strategy over real time strategy. Why does the amount of options need to be reduced during battle.
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#75 Jun 23 2011 at 5:19 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
SolomonGrundy wrote:
One thing, if they are removing it from spells why don’t you add it to Marauder so we can switch Steadfast on and off as required?

Because watching you randomly cleaving that level ?? mob that just happens to be walking by you while you were raping that bunny... well, it is about the closest thing I could get to entertainment from this game.


Camp Horizon Area - before they fixed the Aldgoat Nanny fascination with players - was very "interesting" when ranking up Marauder. XD
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#76 Jun 23 2011 at 6:00 AM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Fine, then just make the toggle separate (a different button/switch) you could turn on and off.
Yeah, that's kinda my point. It doesn't even have to be a different button. The icon as it appears now could just pop up whenever you press z and fade out after a few seconds. Tack on a small indicator onto the action bar like the battle regime icon to remind you what you have selected and you're set.

It's almost too easy. Literally. I don't get why SE can't figure this stuff out sometimes.


For the same reason that after 9 years their UI is STILL somewhat clunky for FFXI. Some things they just don't get and probably never will... =/
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#77 Jun 23 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Default
The OP states that they are getting rid of the AOE toggle...... nothing said about intro ga spells, additional action bars, or any of that stuff.

What if they are going to make all spells single target (i.e no more AOE at all) or the reverse what if they make all spells AOE? you migth think thats batsh!t crazy talk, but if your all going to get your knickers in a twist over what might happen at least make it exciting and flame each other over the worse case scenario.... which lets face it SE will implement thinking its the ideal solution.
#78 Jun 23 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Decent
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If we can't discuss the pros and cons of actions made by SE, then gosh, what the **** would we have to talk about on this forum.
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#79 Jun 23 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
If we can't discuss the pros and cons of actions made by SE, then gosh, what the **** would we have to talk about on this forum.


Why, in-game events, of course! /moves about carpet guffawing
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#80 Jun 23 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Good
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Why is it people feel they deserve to use every single spell? That was part of the reason Blue Mage was fun in FFXI...you had to pick and choose what you wanted on your pallet based on what you were up against. Assuming they keep tweaking our ability to move buttons on the fly...I don't see why anyone would be upset. You want a FF game with strategy? Then limit our ability to have everything.

I see a stronger game where you have to design your abilities around your play style and those in your party. Creates thought and discussion.

But again...all this discussion over one line item from a random developer. lol.
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#81 Jun 23 2011 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
This actually brings me to FFXII in which, for me at least, most of the tactics in a fight was done before the actual fight arranging the gambits, the alocation of abilities/spells can be considered the same thing.
If you wanted to. I played through FFXII several times and never used gambits that heavily. Usually only made a few for haste/cures.

BartelX wrote:
bsphil wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Fine, then just make the toggle separate (a different button/switch) you could turn on and off.
Yeah, that's kinda my point. It doesn't even have to be a different button. The icon as it appears now could just pop up whenever you press z and fade out after a few seconds. Tack on a small indicator onto the action bar like the battle regime icon to remind you what you have selected and you're set.

It's almost too easy. Literally. I don't get why SE can't figure this stuff out sometimes.
For the same reason that after 9 years their UI is STILL somewhat clunky for FFXI. Some things they just don't get and probably never will... =/
PS2 limitations! All-time classic cop-out for writing crappy code.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 10:58am by bsphil
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#82 Jun 23 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Default
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Simool wrote:
Why is it people feel they deserve to use every single spell? That was part of the reason Blue Mage was fun in FFXI...you had to pick and choose what you wanted on your pallet based on what you were up against. Assuming they keep tweaking our ability to move buttons on the fly...I don't see why anyone would be upset. You want a FF game with strategy? Then limit our ability to have everything.

I see a stronger game where you have to design your abilities around your play style and those in your party. Creates thought and discussion.


Why is it people feel they DON'T deserve to use the spells they leveled for? I don't quite understand how limiting customizability makes a game stronger. If they only want us to use a few spells, only give us a few... or don't initially give us a ton and then at some point cut the amount we can use in half (if that's how it ends up happening, not saying it will). Your blue mage example is the ONLY class in ffxi like that. All other mage classes don't have a limit on the number of spells they can use. It would be like going into FFXI now and telling mages to choose a few spells that they can use at a time and the rest they won't have access to unless they swap them out (outside of battle). I think there would be a lot of upset people if you did that.

Simool wrote:
But again...all this discussion over one line item from a random developer. lol.


And again, what the heck else are we going to talk about? Would you rather no one post in the forum? It always makes me laugh when people comment on topics of conversation. It's a freakin messageboard for a game that hasn't seen more than an ounce of content in 9 months. You do the math.



Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 12:20pm by BartelX
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#83 Jun 23 2011 at 11:45 AM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
Your blue mage example is the ONLY class in ffxi like that. All other mage classes don't have a limit on the number of spells they can use.


Right...and this isn't FFXI. If you want everything...well, I guess you can go back and play that? These boards are turning into a giant cake and eat it cliche.

BartelX wrote:
And again, what the heck else are we going to talk about? Would you rather no one post in the forum? It always makes me laugh when people comment on topics of conversation. It's a freakin messageboard for a game that hasn't seen more than an ounce of content in 9 months. You do the math.


Ummm...I was talking about in-game discussion before heading into battles/boss fights. Right now...since everyone can do anything and is more or less self reliant so planning is not as important.
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#85 Jun 23 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Victrola wrote:
On this it was intended like (soldiers pay $15/month)
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o...........o.............o............o...........o...........o............o..........o..............o.............o..........o
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that type of gameplay. but now with removing aoe under new order more like

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I have no idea what you're trying to get at with these "diagrams" but you should try the [pre] tags. These were better:

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It's simple to be warmer than zero! (store-tp over haste in a water-based mentality)

Here's a diagram of my samurai setup:

TP


......................<\
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/))))))/ <- PLATE MAIL
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..( ^ ^ )
.............<<<))))))))))>>>>
............#!#% ##)))## ##!% <- 2 MORE PLATE MAILS ON EQUIP SCREEN
..........{| | !#%#%! | |}
................... [ ] <- HAIDATE but it's kitty pants (^%^MEANT)
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
.................... / ] <- Leather HIGHboots


WS


......................<\
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,/))))))/ <- PLATE MAIL
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..( ^ ^ )
.............<<<))))))))))>>>
............/!/# ##)))## \#!\ <- PLATE MAIL AND AF+1x2=?
.........., , !#%#%! ; ;
................ & && && <- HAIDATE+1 I MEAN HACHIRYU DUN B JEALOUS
.................&&& &&
................._/ \_ <- lvl 1 WHM boots (SOMETIMES CALLT RSE)




Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 1:15pm by bsphil
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#86 Jun 23 2011 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
The confirmation is when I select the target. Can't get rid of that.
#89 Jun 23 2011 at 1:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Right...and this isn't FFXI. If you want everything...well, I guess you can go back and play that? These boards are turning into a giant cake and eat it cliche.


Actually, it's called a comparison. Since FFXIV introduced mages with AoE and single target on the same spells and now they are possibly being separated. It is the same as if they did that to mage jobs in 11 by taking away half the spells they can equip at one time. It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting my cake and eating it too. It's the way the game was released.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 3:47pm by BartelX
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#91 Jun 23 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Quote:
Right...and this isn't FFXI. If you want everything...well, I guess you can go back and play that? These boards are turning into a giant cake and eat it cliche.


Actually, it's called a comparison. Since FFXIV introduced mages with AoE and single target on the same spells and now they are possibly being separated. It is the same as if they did that to mage jobs in 11 by taking away half the spells they can equip at one time. It has absolutely nothing to do with wanting my cake and eating it too. It's the way the game was released.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 3:47pm by BartelX


Not too sure about that. Most everyone screamed for changes so changes are coming. Heck...we are at the very very tip of the iceberg when it comes to changes forthcoming. But, what I can see a community that is going to complain every step of the way. There are too many issues and we all want different things and want the game to suit our individual needs. If we have this amount of chatter about something as small as an AOE toggle(from a one lined dev quote)...just wait until real changes are made.

Pure FF anarchy. I will quite enjoy it since I happen to love and embrace change.
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#93 Jun 23 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Take your right hand...and slap your right ear as hard as you can. Several times. Then eat some ice cream real fast.

Have ringing in your ears plus a brain freeze. Pure Anarchy.
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#96 Jun 23 2011 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Victrola wrote:
maybe if I drive the bass 12s into the house such that they vibrate and stop the bird attacks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQW1c0esNIk then I could sober up to f i n d the truck

Isn't ffxi like 70% female guys, could take my hand to the end game (kkkkkkkk motion video (push E))

I didn't mean to ruin mog! just one lul


Are you on PCP or something?

Simool wrote:

Not too sure about that. Most everyone screamed for changes so changes are coming. Heck...we are at the very very tip of the iceberg when it comes to changes forthcoming. But, what I can see a community that is going to complain every step of the way. There are too many issues and we all want different things and want the game to suit our individual needs. If we have this amount of chatter about something as small as an AOE toggle(from a one lined dev quote)...just wait until real changes are made.

Pure FF anarchy. I will quite enjoy it since I happen to love and embrace change.


I have no problem with change either, and as I said, if this was done to have more consequence to casting AoE spells, then I will accept that as a necessary change. However, I am not ok with "change for change sake". If this was done simply as an alleviation of a button press, that's what this is to me, and it does more harm than good imo.

And again, the reason we are debating this is because there's really not much else to debate. We'll see the exact same amount of fervour when the bigger changes come out (perhaps a bit more from the random people that will come back to check the forums). When people don't have anything to talk about, but are bored at work, they'll make stuff to talk about. Heck, I haven't touched FFXIV in 3 months yet here I am arguing over an AoE toggle. Do you really think I care this vehemently about 1 button press? No, I'm just interested in some good old fashioned back and forth. =P
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50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#97 Jun 23 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
I have no problem with change either, and as I said, if this was done to have more consequence to casting AoE spells, then I will accept that as a necessary change. However, I am not ok with "change for change sake". If this was done simply as an alleviation of a button press, that's what this is to me, and it does more harm than good imo.


I'll just flat out say I think the current AoE interface sucked. I suppose it's not so bad if you were going to flip it to AoE mode and just leave it there while you mindlessly spammed cure spells on your party the whole time. But if combat is supposed to get more challenging in the future, the AoE toggle will only become more irritating if left alone.

If you're going to both heal a group and target individual mobs with debuffs and nukes in the same fight, it's highly prone to you accidentally nuking extra mobs or only healing one person. All it takes is for you to lose your train of thought over which AoE state the last spell you cast was in and you didn't stop to check first before it was too late. I can totally see this happening a lot with any half-asleep mage in a late night grinding session.

You can use macros to alleviate this, but that does take away from the usefulness that the action bar is supposed to provide, and without proper target commands, macros have their own issues as well ********* this broken game[/sm]).

****, it could be as simple as removing the "toggle" aspect and making it so that if you press the AoE button during casting, it'll cast as an AoE spell, and if you don't, it's single target. Even that would be an improvement because it takes all uncertainty out of what you want your spell to do. Alternatively, maybe even showing your AoE toggle state at all times rather than as a brief, last minute appearance before you commit yourself to a terrible blunder would have been nice too.
#98 Jun 25 2011 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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If they're really 'fixing' the battle system, then having two different spells like we used to have in FFXI wouldn't really be too much of a hinderance. That being said, FFXI never had the limitation of how many points worth of spells we could equip at any one time. With the class system allowing us to pick skills from any class, its a necessary evil, but im hoping they can find some way to ease the burden on our task bars in lieu of an 'AoE' choice.

I support this, though im somewhat concerned about how they will ultimately implement area effect spells.
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#99 Jun 26 2011 at 4:34 PM Rating: Default
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
The confirmation is when I select the target. Can't get rid of that.


Yeah you can. It's called "Stop designing UI interactions and decisions from the 02' era". You're already targeting something; just fire the **** ability. If you want to fire something else off on another target, they need to get with the times and enable the option for @mouseover (as well as say RT/L2 + targeting while engaged).

People need to stop letting SE limit themselves to archaic methods, and stop being satisfied with mediocrity.
#100 Jun 26 2011 at 5:19 PM Rating: Default
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Personally, I'd prefer they make an overall AoE toggle button that is separate from the actions themselves; however, that AoE toggle brings a cost of 2-3x the MP and maybe 2-3x the cast time. (Emnity is pointless to add, since you're hitting multiple targets with a curebomb/nuke that mobs probably won't like. But if it tickles your fancy, add a minor hate increase to it, too.) There, now we have AoE that is useful, but more dangerous, and I don't need to waste more bars with inane AoE versions of every ******* spell in my book.

Everybody's happy.
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#101 Jun 26 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Scraping AoE is good and surprisingly not the lazy route they've been taking. besides i want to call Forth a lighting storm above my enemies not a ball of unidentified goop, AoE has gotta go to give me what i want. if this games Graphics is lacking in any area its the bland and unimpressive skills.

FFXI had great skill animations especially in magic. it went from wow... to wow!!,to WOW!!!, to IM A ***** TRAIN CHAINING KILLING GOD!!! with out that sense of accomplishment...i mean what else do mages have to look foward to that staff that looks just like the one you've been using the last 30 level or the robe that looks the same since level 1. maybe its that Harlequins hat that everybody seems to have since you just obtained yours. there is nothing in this game to look forward to, nothing except for the next level.

BTW Macros work wonders for changing Spells/Actions on the fly, it takes like 5 minutes to set it up.
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