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#1 Jun 23 2011 at 4:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hello,

I am posting this in =152 because the last post for Conjurer was from June 13th and I'd like to get some feedback on this fairly quickly. I am leveling up Conjurer, currently R26, while my Thaumaturge is R20. I'm at the point now where I just want to push forward on one job and take it to 50. I'd like to be a dedicated healer and so far, it seems that Con is better at fulfilling that role. Was it meant to be this way? I ask because I find it odd that a lot of Con's spells are black magic, while Thm's are more for debuffing the mob...

I know that we really haven't been given much details on the new job specialization that they are coming out with, but I don't want to continue to leveling one, only to be disappointed that I would have to level the other in order to be a more efficient healer. Obviously, down the road they will both be leveled, but I want to be ready for the new dungeons that are being released. I just wanted some input as to which is the better healer... I know there has probably been a post or x30 in the past regarding this, but with all of the new information and small tweaks to the way the battle system works, that information may not hold much water now.

Also, depending on which you think has more potential to be the main healer, are there certain ways you have your targeting mode setup and macros that you couldn't live without while healing? If so, what are they? Thanks for your time...
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Purchase and instal a bigger hard drive, at the moment my PS3 has 500GB memory which is plenty.
#2 Jun 23 2011 at 5:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I know that we really haven't been given much details on the new job specialization that they are coming out with, but I don't want to continue to leveling one, only to be disappointed that I would have to level the other in order to be a more efficient healer.

Welcome to the club.
Basically you are askin us to look into the future for you and tell you what SE is actually up to.
Good luck getting a more sensible answer.
#3 Jun 23 2011 at 6:18 AM Rating: Good
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Many of us are in the same position. :/ I am leveling both to 50 until further notice. That is your best bet for now.
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#4 Jun 23 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
I know that we really haven't been given much details on the new job specialization that they are coming out with, but I don't want to continue to leveling one, only to be disappointed that I would have to level the other in order to be a more efficient healer.

Welcome to the club.
Basically you are askin us to look into the future for you and tell you what SE is actually up to.
Good luck getting a more sensible answer.
Honestly that wasn't my intention. My intention, which I guess because I'm still new to the game, is to see how you have been handling healing and what worked best for you during battle. I apologize that I struck a sore spot on you or anyone else. I just happened to post a little background to the way I've been seeing things now that SE has been putting out little tidbits of information...
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Purchase and instal a bigger hard drive, at the moment my PS3 has 500GB memory which is plenty.
#5 Jun 23 2011 at 7:44 AM Rating: Good
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The big problem right now, while everyone (ok a good group of people) are assuming that con will get the White Mage Job. If that is true, then you will want to go Con. The only problem is, no one knows for sure. Personally, I leveled Con to 30, and am now working on getting Mrd up, so I have a tank, dd, and healer job available (currently pting mostly with my wife and brother) for whatever the situation needs, and I leveled thm high enough for sacrifice 2.

I would assume that leveling Con is probably best for healing (I am betting on it... but only by 10 levels), but again, we will not know for sure until July.
#6 Jun 23 2011 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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As of right now, THM is the better healer.

Sacrifice is the better heal and THM has conal heals instead of radial so in ANY case you can heal MORE people with THM over CON by just taking a step back.

Intended?

Idk ^^

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 10:40am by DoctorMog
#7 Jun 23 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Yes, SE is amazing with balancing classes. Let's fully ignore that Protect, Shell and all the statusheals are on CON.
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#8 Jun 23 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
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DoctorMog wrote:
As of right now, THM is the better healer.

Sacrifice is the better heal and THM has conal heals instead of radial so in ANY case you can heal MORE people with THM over CON by just taking a step back.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 10:40am by DoctorMog


this is mostly true. however it is still very beneficial to have con leveled up to the same level you have your THM at simply because having more cure options and the buffs your more likely to use if you want to play healer.

i would also like to add that trying to cure or buff groups of people on con is a nightmare. it feels like i'm casting avatar buffs from ffxi before they patched bloodpact range.

i have been leveling both at once doing 1 level on con then 1 on thm. i could have had one or the other at 50 by now, but it really doesnt matter yet. There isnt anything i cant do at 45 that i would be able to at 50. at least for the time being.

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 12:41pm by Keysofgaruda
#10 Jun 23 2011 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol wut?

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 4:24pm by DoctorMog
#12 Jun 23 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Good
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What does that have to do with my post addressing THM and CON as healers?
#13 Jun 23 2011 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
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Sorry to derail your thread.

All done.
#15 Jun 23 2011 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
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say wahhh????

On topic, I'm gonna say that CON will be blm and THM will be whm. Reason being CON story and spells seem to mostly fit blm and THM spells and story seem to fit whm. I mean, they are about sacrificing themselves and taking on the sins of others in order to cure/heal them ... only thing that doesn't fit is CON having the buff spells.

As of right now, Mog is right though in that THM is the better healer as it has better range and sacrifice is a better healing spell. CON AOE just plain sucks hard and I think is meant more for mobs than party buffs/heals.
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#16 Jun 23 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd agree that THM is better for healing, due to their AOE. And another point against CON as a healer is that if you are using Sacrifice II as well (and why not, getting to 20 is not a big deal), it will gradually deplete your HP since your heals often will not reach yourself. And this can be kind of dangerous during some fights, particularly if you do not have a good tank. In which case there are times you may as well just stand next to the mobs with the melees. xD

But, who knows what the dev team has in mind? Personally, I think the THM lore is better suited to being a healer/white mage, but I've noticed since the early days of the game that a lot of people perceive CON as the best class for healing (why, I do not really get), so it could go either way. :/

p.s. this sounds like I dislike CON, but I actually like it a lot, just not as a healer. The AOE is great for dealing with small groups of leve mobs and the buffs are very useful!

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 8:51pm by Dollfie
#17 Jun 23 2011 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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When casting sacrifice on THM the heal hits the caster as well,

So while it has a HP cost, you gain it back in the first HoT tick.

Essentially keeping your HP full.
#18 Jun 23 2011 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I thought CON was the main healer because of the Cure line falling into their repertoire of spells; that and buffs/-na line. I find myself extremely close to my party though as CON and I do-not-like it one bit. The range in which I can cast something seems extremely short. With the Resonance ability the distance seems more reasonable.

I saw above that you can effectively heal more people with THM if you just take a step back. I just want to clarify I understand what you mean by that. If I am standing at range along with another ranged class: I position myself to put the other ranged class between me and the mob; cast the Sacrifice spell on a melee; and that will in turn heal myself, the other ranged, and all of the melee members? Is the range of being able to cast on a party member the same as CON? On a side note, for Conjurer the Fast Cast trait is probably the top priority in terms of what to get with guild marks right? It seems all THM guild marks are for is damage dealing purposes and converting stats into a DoW stat...
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Bleam FFXI (Retired) 75MNK/SAM/NIN/SMN/THF  
Bleam WoW (Retired) 80 Druid 
Golf WoW (Retired) 80 Death Knight 
Tewksberry WoW (Retired) 80 Hunter 
Rahana WoW (Retired) 80 Priest


TwiddleDee wrote:
Purchase and instal a bigger hard drive, at the moment my PS3 has 500GB memory which is plenty.
#19 Jun 23 2011 at 9:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think either was supposed to be a main healer (I don't really think the game was designed to have a "main healer", but various mages casting heals between other spells in large group vs group type stuff). I think Con is going to get the White Mage job, but I also think that this time around, they will try and have 2 classes capable of main healer jobs, and THM will get something too.
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#20 Jun 23 2011 at 9:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
but I also think that this time around, they will try and have 2 classes capable of main healer jobs, and THM will get something too.
This time around? Last time around they had several jobs that were considered capable of main healing; WHM, RDM, and later in the game SCH. The point is WHM got the higher tier cures and usually subbed one of the other two for extending their abilities to heal more efficiently. It's obvious to level up THM along side CON, due to the abilities Siphon MP, Sacrifice, and various debuffs... With the changes to the class system and SE trying to make the roles more definable, we very well may see that when we equip an ability from another class we could see reduced potency from said ability. That's actually a sidebar comment though...

You might be right though. I could see THM being branched off to RDM and being perfectly cabable of main healing too... Either way, I'm just going to try to rank them up together, at least get THM to 25 for the new dungeons and do some testing on the positioning as I mentioned earlier. I was hoping to get an answer from that question I asked^^;

Also, in my OP I questioned about macros that you couldn't live without and how you have your targeting set up... Can someone assist with that? Using the action bars seems very cumbersome and prone to user error. I wish they would make it that I don't have to hold down the macro button the whole time while I am scrolling over to choose which one to use. (I use a game controller vs a keyboard)
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Bleam FFXI (Retired) 75MNK/SAM/NIN/SMN/THF  
Bleam WoW (Retired) 80 Druid 
Golf WoW (Retired) 80 Death Knight 
Tewksberry WoW (Retired) 80 Hunter 
Rahana WoW (Retired) 80 Priest


TwiddleDee wrote:
Purchase and instal a bigger hard drive, at the moment my PS3 has 500GB memory which is plenty.
#21 Jun 23 2011 at 9:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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When I heal as a THM I stand behind all the melees -- usually back next to the archers -- and just target myself for the heal. Doing this I can hit the tank and all the DD'ers while staying out of mob AOE range. As for archers, they really shouldn't be taking much damage, but if they do I normally just target them specifically. Though in leve parties (read: more chaotic situations with little strategy and/or no proper tank) arches tend to draw a lot of hate so they can be a pain to heal as a THM, with their habit of wanting to stand 1 step behind you. xD

As for the range for casting on a specific party member, I never really noticed to be honest! But when I play as a THM I normally stand right next to a CON, and when a party member is out of the CON's range they are generally out of mine too, and vice-versa.

Re: guild mark traits, yep, Fast Cast was one of my first purchases, along with the CON and THM affinity traits which help if you want to mix 'n match from those two classes. THM and CON really have a lot of similar guild mark traits, though THM gets an "increased defense during casting" one (Firm Conviction) while CON gets an "increased casting speed" one.

No clue about macros and controller stuff, hope you find some good advice though.

. . . erm, sorry for the novel there. ^^; And I will admit that I am not the most efficient and amazing of players so I'm sure others will have more to chip in. :)

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 11:57pm by Dollfie

Edited, Jun 23rd 2011 11:59pm by Dollfie
#22 Jun 23 2011 at 10:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bleam wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
but I also think that this time around, they will try and have 2 classes capable of main healer jobs, and THM will get something too.
This time around? Last time around they had several jobs that were considered capable of main healing; WHM, RDM, and later in the game SCH. The point is WHM got the higher tier cures and usually subbed one of the other two for extending their abilities to heal more efficiently. It's obvious to level up THM along side CON, due to the abilities Siphon MP, Sacrifice, and various debuffs... With the changes to the class system and SE trying to make the roles more definable, we very well may see that when we equip an ability from another class we could see reduced potency from said ability. That's actually a sidebar comment though...

You might be right though. I could see THM being branched off to RDM and being perfectly cabable of main healing too... Either way, I'm just going to try to rank them up together, at least get THM to 25 for the new dungeons and do some testing on the positioning as I mentioned earlier. I was hoping to get an answer from that question I asked^^;

Also, in my OP I questioned about macros that you couldn't live without and how you have your targeting set up... Can someone assist with that? Using the action bars seems very cumbersome and prone to user error. I wish they would make it that I don't have to hold down the macro button the whole time while I am scrolling over to choose which one to use. (I use a game controller vs a keyboard)


Sch was a ways after my time, so I can't comment on that, But you do bring up some good points. I know that after level 40ish (I can't recall specifics anymore), I swore by RDM healing and lobbied for it every chance I got, because it was flat out better than WHM for XPing when it came to min maxing. That was however, because our group was a pretty solid setup, and we could get by with a little less healing, and benefit from a little more utility. But at the end of the day, as good as summoner and RDM were for healing, That was just one aspect of their intended job, duties, I still hold that WHM was the only intended main healer, the only class who was expected to be healing 100% of the time they were in a group.

But you got what I was getting at. I'm not crazy about names, I don't much care what they call classes, I think that THM will most likely branch into 2 group friendly supportish roles, one that focuses on buffs and capable of healing, and one that focuses on debuffs and more damage. However, right now we've been more or less told initially its going to be 1 job per class, so we won't get multiple branches, and we've no way of telling right now which would be the better healer. It sounds like you're going about it best right now, you'll need to get both leveled up at some point, so whatever pace works for you, go for it.
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#23 Jun 23 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Excellent
You very rarely ever target anyone but yourself when healing as a THM. The simple eason for this is that you instantly gain back the HP cost of Sacritifice and you have a very long range. If the set up is right you can stand just behind the archer and hit all players in one go. THM is by far the better healer but as a few people have said the system does still feel broken. People that played FFXI still think of 'Cure' as the healing spell, but really that is used more of an insta-heal, healing for the most HP, but the new 'Cure' is Sacrifice,the power of this spell as it is at the minute, is unsurpassed in its healing powers. Cure is pretty important to set though (at least Cure II) because if, on those rare occasions you find yourself in low HP, cure is the only spell that will actually work. There have been a few times, especially early on when I was soling alot when I would be near to death and spamming my Sacrifice macro and it not working because my HP was too low to cast (this is the payoff for making this spell so good).

As you can see from my sig I ranked up both mage classes THM and then CON. At present you do need both to at least 48 :) (THM 50 for contaigon imo).

Boith are fun and both have their seperate uses.

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#24 Jun 24 2011 at 3:52 AM Rating: Excellent
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Victrola wrote:
Where can I find you Doctor Mog!
(I mean just like today, so we can play a game while you level up the wheat from 43 to 50) we could play a game online with directx 9.0c graphics together, then you can get the wheat to 50
I know I really shouldn't feed, but every post Victrola makes is equally disturbing. Disturbing on a different level...

Anyway, thanks Edy for the useful bit of information about targeting. Do you use a macro for sacrifice and have it set to <me> or do you just use the action bar? As a THM healer, which CON actions do you find yourself equiping on a normal grinding expedition?
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Bleam FFXI (Retired) 75MNK/SAM/NIN/SMN/THF  
Bleam WoW (Retired) 80 Druid 
Golf WoW (Retired) 80 Death Knight 
Tewksberry WoW (Retired) 80 Hunter 
Rahana WoW (Retired) 80 Priest


TwiddleDee wrote:
Purchase and instal a bigger hard drive, at the moment my PS3 has 500GB memory which is plenty.
#25 Jun 24 2011 at 1:55 PM Rating: Good
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The answer is - if you want to be a good healer take both conj and thm to at least 48. I prefer the cone AOE of thm to that of conj. You need Shell II, Protect II and Shock Spikes II for buffs and then Sac III and Cure III for heals.

Currently, my THM is at 49 and my conj is at 48. Yes, by using my thm to heal I sacrifice about 200 HP per heal but the cone AOE is worth it to me and I never seem to have any issues keeping people alive. The only time it gets tricky is when you are fighting a difficult NM as the solo-healer and the tank can't keep hate so the mob is always shifting. Be sure to zoom your camera out as far as it can go and try to position yourself so that your cone hits everyone it needs to.
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