Forum Settings
       
1 2 Next »
This Forum is Read Only

New Interview With Famitsu Connect-On Magazine (6/26/11)Follow

#52 Jun 28 2011 at 12:16 PM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
ForceOfMeh wrote:
BartelX wrote:
I personally didn't need it since I was a prot pally and main tanked everything, but meh.


You're welcome to tank me any time. :P

BartelX wrote:

To me, a threat meter in that situation just makes it more boring and easier. FFXIV is easy enough already. =/


I'm kind of neutral on this. It really depends on what they do to build on the fact you have a threat meter that will decide whether it's a good design choice or not.


Yeah, I suppose so. I just can't really fathom a reason at this point that it would be absolutely necessary. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#53 Jun 28 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
I don't really think that holding threat is supposed to be part of the challenge to a game. Maybe I just caught on to it early, but it was never an issue for me. Learning to control your threat/hate output seems like a one time lesson, like riding a bike, you know it or you don't. I'm not sure why so many people don't want newer players unfamiliar with the system to learn it faster.
____________________________


#54 Jun 28 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
****
6,898 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
I don't really think that holding threat is supposed to be part of the challenge to a game. Maybe I just caught on to it early, but it was never an issue for me. Learning to control your threat/hate output seems like a one time lesson, like riding a bike, you know it or you don't. I'm not sure why so many people don't want newer players unfamiliar with the system to learn it faster.


Why not? In every other MMO other than WoW and a few WoW clones, being able to hold/manage threat without a threat meter is a HUGE part of the game. A game like lotro for instance, where knowing how to control your threat on a job like ranger, or knowing how to maximize your threat to keep mobs on you for a job like warden are a part of the challenge to the game. Adding in a threat meter to me is just a cheesy gimmick to allow players an easier path that is absolutely unneccessary. The thing you have to ask is, will adding a threat meter to the game improve it in any way, shape or form? I really can't think of any instance where the answer to that is yes, at least not at present.

Edited, Jun 28th 2011 2:39pm by BartelX
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#55 Jun 28 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
BartelX wrote:

Why not? In every other MMO other than WoW and a few WoW clones, being able to hold/manage threat without a threat meter is a HUGE part of the game.


I haven't played every game, but like I've said, this was never the case for me. I've always been able to figure out my thresholds and not to pass them very quick. Also, I'll add that I never felt the game was trivialized because of it, there were still challenges. I can see that its intended to be a challenge, I just think that in practice it doesn't really work out as one after the baseline grouping content. the only time I've ever seen it be an issue in games, is when people are so good at it that they have to implement hate shedding mechanics to a boss to ensure that people do it 'wrong' at some point in a battle.

BartelX wrote:

The thing you have to ask is, will adding a threat meter to the game improve it in any way, shape or form? I really can't think of any instance where the answer to that is yes, at least not at present.


I do. I think it will help the people who need it. But rather than assuming they will continue on without ever learning, needing it as a tool for however many years they play the game, I am assuming that most people will go ahead and learn from it fairly quickly and not need it either.
____________________________


#56 Jun 28 2011 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
****
4,146 posts
BartelX wrote:
I completely disagree on the skill part however. In FFXI, it wasn't about restraining yourself from pressing a button... it was about knowing exactly what to do to take hate when needed, or what to do to refrain from taking hate that made it fun. For instance, anything that was dual tanked, it required a level of understanding between the 2 tanks to work together in keeping hate balanced so it could be traded easily.


Dual tanking takes coordination, but the concept still isn't really that hard to grasp. I'm not sure I'd call it a skill because there are so many tools at your disposal. Provoke, flash and warcry; not to mention big cures among other abilities. Even /nin there are more than enough ways to get a mob's attention.

Anyway I don't see it as an issue. If anything, it's a tease. To be completely honest I hope that the development of XIV, however slow, leads to gameplay that will make you wish you had more tools like this. I know there isn't any endgame content yet, but I would like to see some challenging encounters added where threat meters would be useful.
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#57 Jun 29 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Decent
****
6,898 posts
I don't feel like quoting individually, so I'm just going to make a general post. You both seem to be contradicting the threat meter argument. First, you say that managing threat in a game is really not a problem, and something that people pick up on easily, but then you both say that adding a threat meter is a good thing because it helps people. Those are pretty opposing thoughts really. I mean, either it's easy and not necessary, or it's not that easy and is a good tool. It really can't be both.

As for it not being that difficult, all I can say is that it is far more difficult when you are dealing with players with top end gear. When you have players that can actually pull hate from you, it becomes a lot more challenging. I'm not trying to say that you guys didn't experience that, but I know that I experienced it a lot. As a DD, I could pull hate pretty much whenever I wanted, and that was off of our Aegis pld. As a tank, holding hate against really pimped players wasn't easy either, and knowing exactly when you might start to lose hate was an artform, for me at least. It was all about timing and skill, because if you were even a second late on some HNMs, it could mean a wipe.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#58 Jun 29 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
BartelX wrote:
I don't feel like quoting individually, so I'm just going to make a general post. You both seem to be contradicting the threat meter argument. First, you say that managing threat in a game is really not a problem, and something that people pick up on easily, but then you both say that adding a threat meter is a good thing because it helps people. Those are pretty opposing thoughts really. I mean, either it's easy and not necessary, or it's not that easy and is a good tool. It really can't be both.

As for it not being that difficult, all I can say is that it is far more difficult when you are dealing with players with top end gear. When you have players that can actually pull hate from you, it becomes a lot more challenging. I'm not trying to say that you guys didn't experience that, but I know that I experienced it a lot. As a DD, I could pull hate pretty much whenever I wanted, and that was off of our Aegis pld. As a tank, holding hate against really pimped players wasn't easy either, and knowing exactly when you might start to lose hate was an artform, for me at least. It was all about timing and skill, because if you were even a second late on some HNMs, it could mean a wipe.


Really I think we'll just agree to disagree here. You feel that threat levels are an important strategic element of the game, and I feel that while that was the original intent, its rarely the case anymore.

But since you don't seen to at least understand my point I'll try it one more time. You said "either it's easy and not necessary, or it's not that easy and is a good tool. It really can't be both.", and you're wrong here. Its a skill you either know or you don't. Like riding a bike, I consider easy, I'm sure that most people do, but people who cannot ride a bike would consider it hard. I consider the treat meter something like training wheels for those people. I think of the times I've tried to teach the concept of threat to people:

"Ok try not to pull hate"
"what does that mean?"
"Well, the mob will attack whoever he 'hates' the most, so make sure he doesn't hate you more than tanking guy"
"how do I know if he hates me?"
"He'll start hitting you, make sure he doesn't do that"
"ok, how do I know if hes about to hit me?"
"ummm, you don't really, just kinda figure it out"


Then you go ahead and point out that with gear quality differences, its harder to hold hate on stuff, and that sometimes people will pull it because they aren't used to tanks whose threat output is lower and I think gee wouldn't tbat be a good time to turn on a threat meter?
____________________________


#59 Jun 29 2011 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent
****
6,898 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
But since you don't seen to at least understand my point I'll try it one more time.


Nope, I get your point. I just think your wrong and misinformed. Hence why we're on opposing sides of the argument.

KujaKoF wrote:
You said "either it's easy and not necessary, or it's not that easy and is a good tool. It really can't be both.", and you're wrong here. Its a skill you either know or you don't. Like riding a bike, I consider easy, I'm sure that most people do, but people who cannot ride a bike would consider it hard. I consider the treat meter something like training wheels for those people. I think of the times I've tried to teach the concept of threat to people:

"Ok try not to pull hate"
"what does that mean?"
"Well, the mob will attack whoever he 'hates' the most, so make sure he doesn't hate you more than tanking guy"
"how do I know if he hates me?"
"He'll start hitting you, make sure he doesn't do that"
"ok, how do I know if hes about to hit me?"
"ummm, you don't really, just kinda figure it out"


Right, and these are the players that should either learn how to do it on their own, or else hopefully they will just be weeded out. Learning the BASICS of threat management is not difficult. Learning the intricacies of it is much more so. Giving someone a tool that tells them exactly what to do and what not to do certainly doesn't teach them anything other than "OMG, my meter is flashing, I better stop attacking!" I'd much rather have someone learn the hard way, by getting bashed a few times, than to take the easy way out, but that's just me.


KufaKoF wrote:
Then you go ahead and point out that with gear quality differences, its harder to hold hate on stuff, and that sometimes people will pull it because they aren't used to tanks whose threat output is lower and I think gee wouldn't tbat be a good time to turn on a threat meter?


This is exactly my point. It's the lazy approach. Instead of having to learn how enmity works and understand it, you just turn on a meter. Managing threat may not be one of the most difficult things in an MMO, but removing it is just 1 more thing to dumb down games, and it absolutely isn't necessary. Regardless, we aren't going to agree on this so I'm just going to stop responding because it's futile.
____________________________
Bartel Hayward--- Ultros Server
The Kraken Club <ZAM>
50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
thekrakenclub.shivtr.com
#60 Jun 29 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
534 posts
Best way to learn hate is to get bashed in the head a few times. Worked great in FFXI. It really separated the ones who knew what they were doing and those who didn't.

If I want easy mode MMO...I'd go back to WOW or Rift.



____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#61 Jun 29 2011 at 11:20 AM Rating: Default
8 posts
So what class will get blm and whm? I personally think CON should get both, and maybe Thau get BRD. But seeing that there's only going to be one job per class, that won't happen.
____________________________


#62 Jul 04 2011 at 6:13 PM Rating: Default
Thief's Knife
*****
15,053 posts
akirussan wrote:

  • The finalized job names so far are: Paladin, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Dragon Knight, and Bard.


  • I guess it really is true that SE hates THF.
    ____________________________
    Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
    Adjust the resolution of menus.
    The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
    If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


    I thought of it first:

    http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
    #63 Jul 04 2011 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
    13 posts
    Lobivopis wrote:
    akirussan wrote:

  • The finalized job names so far are: Paladin, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, Dragon Knight, and Bard.


  • I guess it really is true that SE hates THF.


    They keep THF for future expansions.
    1 2 Next »
    This forum is read only
    This Forum is Read Only!
    Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CST
    Anonymous Guests (18)