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Letter from the Producer, XII (27/06/2011) Follow

#1 Jun 27 2011 at 5:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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Letter from the Producer, XII (27/06/2011)
Hello again, all fans of FINAL FANTASY XIV!

Information on 1.18 has recently started popping up on Topics, and today I’ll touch on some details about this patch as well as talk about our balance reform plans. In particular, I’ll be casting the spotlight on guildleves. Now, to give you due warning, this letter is going to be a wall of text. This isn’t without good reason, though—the content can only be described as pivotal, and I ask you to bear with me to the last word.

FINAL FANTASY XIV Balance Reforms
In order to keep up with the times and cater to changing lifestyles, large-scale MMORPGs such as FINAL FANTASY XIV need to offer a more casual playing experience than before. Mind you, that’s not to say that the entire game should be casual. Rather, there should be elements that can be enjoyed in a lighthearted way, for example, after coming home tired from work or school, with mobile phone or refreshing beverage in hand. To elaborate, content that can be enjoyed with little fuss, that doesn’t demand large time investments—up to an hour, say—or require a party to be formed.

But come weekend, players have the choice of undertaking more elaborate adventuring, forming parties with linkshell members and/or likeminded adventurers to accomplish mutual goals. Light parties can exploit the versatility offered by classes to conduct forays into beast tribe settlements, something that a lone adventurer would find grueling. Full parties, on the other hand, can immerse themselves in fine-tuning job configuration in preparation for their bid to obtain rare items in advanced battle content. Disciples of the Hand can outfit the battle-inclined with equipment boasting the requested attributes. And last but not least, Disciples of the Land can set about gathering ingredients based on current class and materia crafting demands.

We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content.
Patch 1.18
As part of the reforms based on the above direction, 1.18 will see the introduction of instanced raids along with the first stages of the battle system reform. In addition to these two areas, which have been discussed in some detail in previous letters, we’ll also be carrying out major revisions to guildleves.
Guildleve Reforms
When FINAL FANTASY XIV was launched last September, it was stated via official channels that guildleves will form the heart of the game. Today, I’d like to officially retract that statement.

Guildleves will no longer be central to FINAL FANTASY XIV.

In my mind, central content isn’t a static thing. Rather, it’s new content that we continually develop for our fans’ enjoyment, with no one item indefinitely bathing in the spotlight.
•Guildleve Repositioning
We will reposition guildleves as content catering to solo adventurers, which can be enjoyed repeatedly and with minimal time investment and fuss.

Large volumes of quests are being added—now and in future patches—which require adventurers to interact with an NPC. Until you do so, you won’t be able to gauge the quest’s difficulty level. In contrast, Guildleves can be initiated simply by visiting guild counters and aetherytes. Bone-tired after a hard day’s work? Got only a bit of time to spare? Then guildleves are just what the doctor ordered. Being able to get started without delay is without a doubt the biggest selling point of guildleves.

Having said that, we want to avoid boring players to tears with monotony. We recognize the need to add a pinch of spice to the mix, such as a system in which special levequests can be triggered, that borrow inspiration from guildleves.

Based on my rationale above, 1.18 will see the following changes made to guildleves. This marks only the beginning, mind you. Further revisions are in store for future patches, all driven by the same overarching goal.

•Imbuing Rewards with Regional Identity
Guildleves won’t simply offer fuss-free adventuring. We also intend to make it so that through guildleves, adventurers will be able to experience the richness and diversity of the world of Eorzea. To achieve this, we will accentuate the uniqueness of rewards for each region. For instance, if it’s metal armor or Blacksmiths’ Guild marks you’re after, you’ll want to make a beeline for Limsa Lominsa.

Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.

•Skill Points: Introduction and Balancing
In light of guildleves’ repositioning as solo-oriented content, leve link bonuses will be reduced. To make up for this reduction, skill points will be added as a new reward for the benefit of solo adventurers.

At the same time, the objectives of certain guildleves will be adjusted in order to accommodate a system in which difficulty and completion time influence your reward. For example, completing a high-difficulty levequest in a short amount of time will yield greater rewards. Through this we hope to encourage skillful adventuring.

In addition to guildleves, sidequests will also be made to yield skill points upon completion, thus providing players with more avenues for advancement.

•Regional Levequest Battle Rebalancing
Given the tremendous amount of work required for instanced raids and battle reforms in 1.18, we weren’t able to allocate sufficient time to review balance for regional levequest battles. Rather than do a cursory job of rebalancing and risk making a mess of things, we decided to put it off for a later patch.

A handful of levequests with peculiar demands, however, such as those that would send adventurers scrambling long distances, will be revised on a case-by-case basis. At the same time, we’ll implement a system that allows the same levequest to assign different routes, which should help to even out adventurer distribution.

•Regional Levequest Usability Tweaks
•Automatic updating of minimap marker position.
•Pegging of enemy rank variance based on guildleve difficulty.
•Revised menu position when cancelling within guildleve issuance window.
We’ve finally gotten around to making the adjustments above, and a bunch of others besides. Adjustments like these will continue well beyond 1.18, with changes great and small to be implemented as required to improve user-friendliness.

On a related subject, failing guildleve objectives due to disconnection is a major issue that many players have raised, and we’re looking at ways to tackle it. We’d been deferring work in this area due to concerns that the ability to resume a guildleve after disconnection may be exploited to unfairly obtain large amounts of skill points. But with rewards now undergoing adjustment, we feel this is a suitable time to put together a plan of action to address the issue.

1.18 and Beyond
Phew, that pretty much sums up all the guildleve changes planned for 1.18.

Although guildleves are just one aspect of FINAL FANTASY XIV, they play a significant role in the overall scheme of changes. And so in deciding to carry out guildleve reforms, I made a pivotal decision that will have a profound impact on the game. I wrote this letter while fighting sleep, and hope I managed to underscore the importance of the adjustments.

Though I’ve already buried you in a mountain of text, there’s actually still a lot more that I wanted to write about, and many more tasks that we have to complete. Here’s some of them, in a flurry:

Reforms to behest are still outstanding, and more new content is in the pipes. We’re doing what we can to reorganize the opening stages of the game, but progress is being made. A complete reworking of recipes is planned for 1.19, with the goal of granting Disciples of the Hand and the Land more power to invigorate the game economy. Likewise for the materia crafting system. Disciples of the Land will benefit from the addition of a stealth skill to their ******** and we’re prepared to invest as much resource as needed to improve the map.

The team will keep soldiering on, working intently towards clearly defined goals, and we ask that all adventurers keep doing what they do best: adventure!

1.18 has proven to be a time-consuming patch, but there’s a good reason for this. 1.18 is the momentous first bold step towards the ideal game that we’ve envisioned, and we hope our fans will be able to feel and appreciate the passion that went into its creation. We ask for your patience for just a little while longer.

This letter ended up taking on quite a formal tone, didn’t it? I suppose it’s only natural, though, considering the weightiness of the content. Anyway, thanks for sticking with me and reading to the very end!

See you next time and/or on the forums!
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#2 Jun 27 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Default
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When FINAL FANTASY XIV was launched last September, it was stated via official channels that guildleves will form the heart of the game. Today, I’d like to officially retract that statement.

Guildleves will no longer be central to FINAL FANTASY XIV.

In my mind, central content isn’t a static thing. Rather, it’s new content that we continually develop for our fans’ enjoyment, with no one item indefinitely bathing in the spotlight.


I think everyone will agree this is about time!!!!

Quote:
Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.


Let's see the exodus deom Ul'Dah start^^, this should be a very good start to spread out the comunity.

Quote:
On a related subject, failing guildleve objectives due to disconnection is a major issue that many players have raised, and we’re looking at ways to tackle it. We’d been deferring work in this area due to concerns that the ability to resume a guildleve after disconnection may be exploited to unfairly obtain large amounts of skill points. But with rewards now undergoing adjustment, we feel this is a suitable time to put together a plan of action to address the issue.


This will surelly make a lot of ppl happy.

Quote:
A complete reworking of recipes is planned for 1.19, with the goal of granting Disciples of the Hand and the Land more power to invigorate the game economy. Likewise for the materia crafting system. Disciples of the Land will benefit from the addition of a stealth skill to their ******** and we’re prepared to invest as much resource as needed to improve the map.


The wholw materia system is one of the most naticipated changes for myself, just hope everything will work out.
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#3 Jun 27 2011 at 6:02 AM Rating: Default
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Long story short, this delays the train once again with some new plans of what SE is planing. How ever i do no think SE thought some of the consents mentioned all the way through. Major one being:

Quote:
Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.


Unless i am misunderstanding, your HoW or HoM will be limited to LL,UL, Grid states for building guild marks. Their are other issues with this as well, but today am swamped with work so I'll be unable to analyze if further.
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#4 Jun 27 2011 at 6:05 AM Rating: Good
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I'm excited for the changes, especially the SP rewarded at the completion of a leve. Sometimes doing leve's sucks because you don't know whether you're getting 1k sp or 5k depending on how fast you find and kill the mobs. It sounds like they're slowly transitioning the game to a stereotypical quest for xp sort of game, which I'm OK with.

It's a shame they still haven't mentioned anything about companies recently though. Hopefully that will be a "Big Reveal" on patch day or leading up to it.
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#5 Jun 27 2011 at 6:14 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Long story short, this delays the train once again with some new plans of what SE is planing. How ever i do no think SE thought some of the consents mentioned all the way through. Major one being:

Quote:
Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.


Unless i am misunderstanding, your HoW or HoM will be limited to LL,UL, Grid states for building guild marks. Their are other issues with this as well, but today am swamped with work so I'll be unable to analyze if further.


This is one of the measures SE mention when they said they would be looking into spreading the population throughout Eorzea instead of having 90% of ppl in Uldah.

This will make us go to otehr cities if we are looking specifically for GM and I for one can see the point and am ok with it.
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#6 Jun 27 2011 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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MerylStryfe wrote:
I'm excited for the changes, especially the SP rewarded at the completion of a leve. Sometimes doing leve's sucks because you don't know whether you're getting 1k sp or 5k depending on how fast you find and kill the mobs.


Or doing an 8 man link only to get 4 pages of that book in a row and only the last 2 mobs instead of having to fight your way through it for killer sp.
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#7 Jun 27 2011 at 7:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
Long story short, this delays the train once again with some new plans of what SE is planing. How ever i do no think SE thought some of the consents mentioned all the way through. Major one being:

Quote:
Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.


Unless i am misunderstanding, your HoW or HoM will be limited to LL,UL, Grid states for building guild marks. Their are other issues with this as well, but today am swamped with work so I'll be unable to analyze if further.


This is one of the measures SE mention when they said they would be looking into spreading the population throughout Eorzea instead of having 90% of ppl in Uldah.

This will make us go to otehr cities if we are looking specifically for GM and I for one can see the point and am ok with it.


Seems like a natural step to me. I always have this assumption anyway that you find more Leves of a crafting job in a city with the corresponding Guild (eg. More Goldsmithing leves in Ul'Dah). Might be my imagination though.
#8 Jun 27 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Except for two small dungeons, all the measures taken discourage people from bounding/working together as a group/party/linkshell. It's going down the route of soloing to cap and then hope for some endgame bigger dungeons. Just like ***
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#9 Jun 27 2011 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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•Imbuing Rewards with Regional Identity
Guildleves won’t simply offer fuss-free adventuring. We also intend to make it so that through guildleves, adventurers will be able to experience the richness and diversity of the world of Eorzea. To achieve this, we will accentuate the uniqueness of rewards for each region. For instance, if it’s metal armor or Blacksmiths’ Guild marks you’re after, you’ll want to make a beeline for Limsa Lominsa.

Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.
IMO, this is more or less epic. Guild marks have been way too random for way too long.
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#10 Jun 27 2011 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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Hmmm... some interesting stuff here. I like the idea of spreading people out and taking away guildleves as the main focal point of the game. I'm a little unsure of turning it into solo content however, as it seems like instead of adding NEW content to the game, they are just changing some of what is already there to make it less prominent. Of course, he also mentioned adding distinctive new leves so who knows.

EDIT: I must have missed the article saying they'd be releasing something new about the patch each week, and that definitely makes me more optimistic about this patch.

Edited, Jun 27th 2011 10:53am by BartelX
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#11 Jun 27 2011 at 7:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
Quote:
Letter from the Producer, XII (27/06/2011)

Information on 1.18 has recently started popping up on Topics, and today I’ll touch on some details about this patch as well as talk about our balance reform plans.


BartelX wrote:

I guess I'm just hoping there is a lot of stuff that Yoshi is leaving out of the changes for 1.18 to surprise us.




It says some so from what I gather it is not everything that is changing.

Edited, Jun 27th 2011 9:13am by Demilia
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#12 Jun 27 2011 at 7:21 AM Rating: Good
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It's something juicy to get our teeth into, it'll be interesting to see how these changes develop in the playerbase versus what the devs want. Moving away from Guildleves interests me as I have a pretty good linkshell for statics and instant parties so I'm looking forward to new content and what it offers. I hope the wait for 1.19 will not be as long, I desperately want to like crafting and no matter how much I try I can't stand it in XIV atm.

I'm going to offer a cautious thumbs up at this letter.
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#13 Jun 27 2011 at 7:31 AM Rating: Default
all r50s before the nerf

quick
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#14 Jun 27 2011 at 7:38 AM Rating: Decent
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From: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/14815-New-interview-from-Famitsu-Connect-On-Magazine-Aug.2011

Quote:
Patch 1.18 has very large volume that cannot be explained all in one producer's letter. So they plan to post the one new feature per week until patch goes live.


Based on this thread I would guess we still havent heard of everything coming out on 1.18

I would also like to clarify that based on this Letter they are not trying to make content aimed more at solo than party, what they are trying to do is make content (clearlly) dedicated for solo/casual players and then add content for group or time consuming activities.

Lowering the benefits of Guildleves for groups is just one step taken in this regards, adding more questleves, adding dungeons would be things added for group content.
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#15 Jun 27 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:
Except for two small dungeons, all the measures taken discourage people from bounding/working together as a group/party/linkshell. It's going down the route of soloing to cap and then hope for some endgame bigger dungeons. Just like ***


I actually interpreted it differently. I figured with the deemphasis on guild leves that would hurt solo play and make grouping either more viable, or simply the "better" option. I mean, everything else they are doing is what the most vocal players want, and the most vocal players want to party for SP.
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#16 Jun 27 2011 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
Except for two small dungeons, all the measures taken discourage people from bounding/working together as a group/party/linkshell. It's going down the route of soloing to cap and then hope for some endgame bigger dungeons. Just like ***


I actually interpreted it differently. I figured with the deemphasis on guild leves that would hurt solo play and make grouping either more viable, or simply the "better" option. I mean, everything else they are doing is what the most vocal players want, and the most vocal players want to party for SP.


I'm curious how you came to this conclusion? I kinda gathered from these

Quote:
We will reposition guildleves as content catering to solo adventurers, which can be enjoyed repeatedly and with minimal time investment and fuss.


Quote:
In light of guildleves’ repositioning as solo-oriented content, leve link bonuses will be reduced. To make up for this reduction, skill points will be added as a new reward for the benefit of solo adventurers.


that they are making solo play MORE viable through leves and actually decreasing the party aspect of them in lieu of the raids being released. Am I wrong thinking this?
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#17 Jun 27 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Does this mean that video with the adventurers sitting around deciding which leve to do is now misleading? Well, even more misleading than it was before, which implied leves would be fun?
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#18 Jun 27 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's been a quagmire of mixed party play and solo without any definition. Sure people did solo leves and those who had time or a large LS with similar ranks did linked leves but it was never anything that seems in the game design, particularly the repeat/fail/repeat method. This is what looks like the first step to not only abolish the desire/need to repeat and fail by giving what could be a sizable SP bonus for difficulty and time completion, but also gearing leves more for solo play.

If I may use XI as an example; in XI's later years after Dancer came out and some adjustments to mob placement were out, people began to solo an awful lot. This was fine for them and much needed for the game, but because there was no clear avenue for them to do this, they went to the camps they knew they could, encroaching on parties that relied on those very same camps for exp. For a lot of people I knew this ruined the game for them since they took the time and effort to gather a party up and go somewhere, only to have a soloer or two a few minutes to half hour later come in and start wrecking exp.

I for one would prefer solo oriented content to come from Guildleves. I've been saying it in my LS and with my friends for a long time that Guildleves need to go or at least be given over to solo content as it's perfect for it. Factions and more high-end leves should be made for parties, and parties should be able to do quests, dungeons (refuse to use raid), and world encampments (a la XI). He's already said that quests will be more geared towards groups and that you can't set the difficulty or see it beforehand so it's more useful for a group to do. Provided we actually get more things for groups (JP interview mentions that every week we'll get a new feature reveal, this is just one) this will be the first major step towards letting the game cater to both sides without massively impinging upon the rights of either.

I suspect the people most up in arms about this will be those who have gone through leves on a repeat/fail cycle with reckless abandon getting very fast and very easy SP for months now. They've said, also in that JP interview, that they don't intend to make leveling harder, so it would seem like we will receive more party friendly locales. It's hinted quite heavily that the encampments (in the JP interview) will be so good in terms of what they offer that the devs worry people will stay there instead of towns. Not to mention that they've said (can't remember if it's in the interview or letter) beastmen tribe areas will be aimed at party play as it would be grueling for a soloer to go through.

About the guild marks though, I fail to see the problem. The nations w/ those guilds have always had more leves available and simply on the law of probability you got more guild marks from leves in that city. He also said they'll make it easier to get guild marks, couple those two together and you'll no doubt be getting marks a lot faster and more consistently (and predictably) than we do now, and I simply cannot see the negative there. I mean, who is that doesn't actually go to LL for BSM/ARM/CUL leves? Or Gridania for CRP/TAN? They offer by far more leves and higher level leves at that, so everybody I've known has always gone there.

I for one am fairly pleased with the way the game is set to shape up, all he needs to do is follow-through and I'll actually believe it.

P.S. Anybody else catch that he mentioned they'll go all out to deal w/ the map? He's hinted lately quite a lot at remodeling in both interviews and in the previous letter.
#19 Jun 27 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
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Kestiel wrote:

P.S. Anybody else catch that he mentioned they'll go all out to deal w/ the map? He's hinted lately quite a lot at remodeling in both interviews and in the previous letter.


Yeah, I noticed that line and was pretty happy to see it also. I can't even fathom the amount of work it will entail to remodel the world map and make it less... for lack of a better word, awful. I'd say it would be highly unlikely to see many changes to that for a few months, but at least Yoshi acknowledges that it needs some major revamping. I completely agree with you that it SOUNDS like things are heading in the right direction, now we just need to see it implemented for it to really hit home.
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#20 Jun 27 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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It's really no wonder, every single one of us has been hit with disillusionment over this game at one point or another. We all had such high hopes for this game and it ended up tanking, there's no real way around it. I think that's all we need, to see him say he's going to do something great and for it to actually happen to prove himself right. Yoshida needs it to gain credibility for both himself and the game, and we need it to restore some moniker of faith and hope that has all but flickered out over the last nine months.

Needless to say, I know a lot of people who are watching on the sidelines more intently than ever with dare-I-say, hope.
#21 Jun 27 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
Except for two small dungeons, all the measures taken discourage people from bounding/working together as a group/party/linkshell. It's going down the route of soloing to cap and then hope for some endgame bigger dungeons. Just like ***


I actually interpreted it differently. I figured with the deemphasis on guild leves that would hurt solo play and make grouping either more viable, or simply the "better" option. I mean, everything else they are doing is what the most vocal players want, and the most vocal players want to party for SP.


I'm curious how you came to this conclusion? I kinda gathered from these

Quote:
We will reposition guildleves as content catering to solo adventurers, which can be enjoyed repeatedly and with minimal time investment and fuss.


Quote:
In light of guildleves’ repositioning as solo-oriented content, leve link bonuses will be reduced. To make up for this reduction, skill points will be added as a new reward for the benefit of solo adventurers.


that they are making solo play MORE viable through leves and actually decreasing the party aspect of them in lieu of the raids being released. Am I wrong thinking this?


I think that your last line is correct. They are gearing guildleves towards solo players, but they are in no way attempting to reduce the amount of party play in this game. They aren't releasing dungeons, and jobs so that people can solo up to cap. In fact I think that us hearing that solo play is getting a buff like this, means that what they are doing for group play right now is that much better.
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#22 Jun 27 2011 at 10:23 AM Rating: Good
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I see once again a shift towards gearing 14 to those who wanted something more similar to 11.

SLOWLY Yoshi will pick away all those original ideas that failed and replace with ones that are more in tune with what your avg FF player is used to seeing.

Which is fine by me...
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#23 Jun 27 2011 at 10:31 AM Rating: Decent
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Those ideas weren't all that original to begin with. And more importantly, they failed. At this point, I don't much care where Yoshi is poaching ideas from, so long as it helps the game to be less of a wreck than it currently is.
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#24 Jun 27 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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Lubriderm Quick Hands wrote:
Quote:
•Imbuing Rewards with Regional Identity
Guildleves won’t simply offer fuss-free adventuring. We also intend to make it so that through guildleves, adventurers will be able to experience the richness and diversity of the world of Eorzea. To achieve this, we will accentuate the uniqueness of rewards for each region. For instance, if it’s metal armor or Blacksmiths’ Guild marks you’re after, you’ll want to make a beeline for Limsa Lominsa.

Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.
IMO, this is more or less epic. Guild marks have been way too random for way too long.



Definately agree, and hopefully it WILL have the effect of getting some activity in my crap home nation of Gridania ^.^
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#25 Jun 27 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Good
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This letter actually gives me more hope for the future of the game than many post detailing exact changes could have.

Now the waiting game continues.
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#26 Jun 27 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm very pleased with the content of the letter.
He seems to be addressing my primary concerns (concerns that are shaped by a Rank 28 archer, rank 23 Marauder and assorted other ranks) that I log on, and if none of my small LS are online, I'd feel like I was wasting my Guildleves by doing them solo.
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#27 Jun 27 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Lubriderm Quick Hands wrote:
Quote:
•Imbuing Rewards with Regional Identity
Guildleves won’t simply offer fuss-free adventuring. We also intend to make it so that through guildleves, adventurers will be able to experience the richness and diversity of the world of Eorzea. To achieve this, we will accentuate the uniqueness of rewards for each region. For instance, if it’s metal armor or Blacksmiths’ Guild marks you’re after, you’ll want to make a beeline for Limsa Lominsa.

Levequests yielding guild marks will be limited to city-states hosting the corresponding guild only. In compensation, we will make it easier for players to amass the guild marks they desire.
IMO, this is more or less epic. Guild marks have been way too random for way too long.


if this system was random then im one unlucky dude. i have been leveling both THM and CON together, and they are both now at 45. i have 57,000 THM marks and 8,000 CON marks. statistically speaking i'm either very lucky (or unlucky as i WANT CON marks) or theres more to the current system than just being random.

Edited, Jun 27th 2011 1:37pm by Keysofgaruda
#28 Jun 27 2011 at 11:48 AM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
BartelX wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
Except for two small dungeons, all the measures taken discourage people from bounding/working together as a group/party/linkshell. It's going down the route of soloing to cap and then hope for some endgame bigger dungeons. Just like ***


I actually interpreted it differently. I figured with the deemphasis on guild leves that would hurt solo play and make grouping either more viable, or simply the "better" option. I mean, everything else they are doing is what the most vocal players want, and the most vocal players want to party for SP.


I'm curious how you came to this conclusion? I kinda gathered from these

Quote:
We will reposition guildleves as content catering to solo adventurers, which can be enjoyed repeatedly and with minimal time investment and fuss.


Quote:
In light of guildleves’ repositioning as solo-oriented content, leve link bonuses will be reduced. To make up for this reduction, skill points will be added as a new reward for the benefit of solo adventurers.


that they are making solo play MORE viable through leves and actually decreasing the party aspect of them in lieu of the raids being released. Am I wrong thinking this?


I think that your last line is correct. They are gearing guildleves towards solo players, but they are in no way attempting to reduce the amount of party play in this game. They aren't releasing dungeons, and jobs so that people can solo up to cap. In fact I think that us hearing that solo play is getting a buff like this, means that what they are doing for group play right now is that much better.


I have never seen SE hide information from their updates. It's always what you see is what you get. Nothing more.

They're going to adjust leves towards solo content. Having mark rewards become region specifik isn't helping partyplay either.
They're going to add tons of sidequests that will give an exp reward.
They're going to make some of these sidequests repeatable like leves.

If the quest sp rewards are too high then people won't bother with grinding in party.
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#29 Jun 27 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:

I have never seen SE hide information from their updates. It's always what you see is what you get. Nothing more.

They're going to adjust leves towards solo content. Having mark rewards become region specifik isn't helping partyplay either.
They're going to add tons of sidequests that will give an exp reward.
They're going to make some of these sidequests repeatable like leves.


Well I'm not accusing them of hiding anything. I'm just saying we have a bunch of update info, some current and some dating back, and they've already said there is a bunch of stuff they haven't said about patch 1.18, we're getting that in the next few weeks. I'm saying that literally everything outside of this letter has suggested a group play focus for the game, so I think its silly to look at just this and say that "SE wants everyone to solo up to cap". When we see patch notes and the net result does show that solo is great and even leve linking groups are now crap, I'll be right along side you thinking "WTF are they doing".

Quote:

If the quest sp rewards are too high then people won't bother with grinding in party.

I've always found this comment funny. If people don't have to group then they won't. Kinda shows that in modern day MMOs, people don't actually want to spend a bunch of time in groups anymore.
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#30 Jun 27 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I've always found this comment funny. If people don't have to group then they won't. Kinda shows that in modern day MMOs, people don't actually want to spend a bunch of time in groups anymore.


This.

They said they're adding party-based content, so why insist on a party grind on every aspect of the game?

Those who want to put a party together and socially do leves still can, it would seem. He's not saying there's no reason to do them with friends, just that they're more solo-centric.

XI was the game that you needed a party for every tedious activity. Every part of that game was a grind from XP to mid-level gear to endgame events.

What's so wrong wig being able to get to cap solo at a reasonable pace? It seems there still will be raids and materia growth for those hungry for a grind.

I say it's a happy compromise if it pans out. Everyone can be at cap, but those willing to put in the extra time will be that much better.

That was the original vision of the game, this just feels like another approach at it.
#31 Jun 27 2011 at 1:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sephrick wrote:
They said they're adding party-based content, so why insist on a party grind on every aspect of the game?


Because when people don't have to rely on other people, they tend to just act like jerks. I've never seen a population be generally courteous and helpful in a game that doesn't require dependence and teamwork with others as a major component.
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#32 Jun 27 2011 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Sephrick wrote:
They said they're adding party-based content, so why insist on a party grind on every aspect of the game?


Because when people don't have to rely on other people, they tend to just act like jerks. I've never seen a population be generally courteous and helpful in a game that doesn't require dependence and teamwork with others as a major component.



So it's better to have folks feign civility out of self interest than to know their true character up front?

Case-in-point: In XI, I still don't have an OHat even though I'd gone on plenty of runs in my seven years in the game.

I just always seemed to draw the short straw. Everytime I went, there never were enough people left to win the fight (talking pre cap increase days). It always was those jerks who would get their reward then jet that ruined other's chances.

My point is, jerks are jerks. When they show who they are is a matter of what they have to do to get what they want.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather know someone isn't worth my time up front than invest time and get screwed.
#33 Jun 27 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Sephrick wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Sephrick wrote:
They said they're adding party-based content, so why insist on a party grind on every aspect of the game?


Because when people don't have to rely on other people, they tend to just act like jerks. I've never seen a population be generally courteous and helpful in a game that doesn't require dependence and teamwork with others as a major component.



So it's better to have folks feign civility out of self interest than to know their true character up front?

Case-in-point: In XI, I still don't have an OHat even though I'd gone on plenty of runs in my seven years in the game.

I just always seemed to draw the short straw. Everytime I went, there never were enough people left to win the fight (talking pre cap increase days). It always was those jerks who would get their reward then jet that ruined other's chances.

My point is, jerks are jerks. When they show who they are is a matter of what they have to do to get what they want.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather know someone isn't worth my time up front than invest time and get screwed.


exactly.
kanekitty is making it sound like its a good thing to force a game to be completely dependant on party play in all aspects.... well no one wants to play that kind of game.
forcing people to work together at all times isnt going to make anyone nicer, the only difference i saw was that poeple were less vocal about certain accomplishments than i saw in WoW, but to me this was just because there was less armour to be gotten with less impact on stats and the lack of on screen parsers.
however
those people i played with on WoW werent necessarily jerks. in fact they were quite helpful and helped newbs once in a while. they just took their performance in raids as a SERIOUS HOBBY and therefore they did their best, used on screen parsers, and looked to play with the best. they also used cuss words and called eachother names once in a while... does this make them horrible people and bad gamers?
well millions laugh at you if you say yes.
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#34 Jun 27 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
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quilens wrote:
all r50s before the nerf

quick



Check!



On a serious note, the update looks good to me. Glad soloists are getting some love.

Edited, Jun 27th 2011 4:40pm by DoctorMog
#35 Jun 27 2011 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Having said that, we want to avoid boring players to tears with monotony.


I lol'd.

That being said, thank god they're at least acknowledging this. I didn't even get that high in level and I got bored to tears, so I can't even imagine what it's like at higher levels.
#36 Jun 27 2011 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know why anyone would put solo content in an MMO. Well, that's not true: I know why, but solo content seems wrongheaded for a principally multiplayer genre--not so much from a developer standpoint, since game companies will follow the money, but from a consumer standpoint.

Why don't casual players and "busy" people play single-player games, or match-oriented multiplayer games, or **** around on Facebook, or whatever casuals and "busy" people do?

What is the rationale for buying an MMO, the premise of which is lengthy, cooperative, multiplayer action, only to demand short and soloable content?

I'm not suggesting casuals are ruining video games, but I am saying that casuals are ruining video games. And don't use the "jerks" to justify solo content, ZAM. Part of the MMO experience is combing through the digital filth and forming social bonds with people who don't suck. If you don't want to participate in this facet of online gaming, I can recommend some other games that simulate it.

At least it is good to hear that those awful guildleves will be repurposed. I guess that means I won't need to do them anymore. Unless the loot is good. And some of it may be. Because of casuals. Ruining the game.
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#37 Jun 27 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
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Will adjustments to battle such as auto-attack, etc. be coming in 1.18 ? I was under the impression from prior information that it was.
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#38 Jun 27 2011 at 6:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, in Everquest 2, I craft and then I sell the items I craft to the community at large. The process of crafting is solo, but the entire buying/selling procedure involves other players. There are auctions that go on regularly for valued items, there is a centralized broker system that works like an Auction House, there is a commission system where crafters can create items using another player's inventory.

Thus, even though I "solo" and am "casual" in EQ II, I am facilitating the multiplayer elements of the game. Similarly, I converse with other crafters via chat channels, which strikes me as being plenty social.

I seem to recall that the crafting system in FFXIV has similar potential, although levelling even to 20 in one DoH was such a depressing boredom that I waved farewell to the game long ago.
#39 Jun 27 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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Playing an MMO solo is like playing Mario Party by yourself without any alcohol.

A sad, sad cry for help.
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#40 Jun 27 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Good
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Why does it have to be one or the other? Solo Onry vs. Merciless 4-hour Party Grind?

The smart money knows that, by offering a variety of services to a variety of customers, you can earn more money than by limiting your horizons to one set. There's absolutely no reason in this day and age that you need to exclude one group over the other. I see this as welcome news, and it makes me more likely to play this in the PS3 (if/when it ever comes out).
#41 Jun 27 2011 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:
I don't know why anyone would put solo content in an MMO. Well, that's not true: I know why, but solo content seems wrongheaded for a principally multiplayer genre--not so much from a developer standpoint, since game companies will follow the money, but from a consumer standpoint.


Look what happened when they forced paying customers to team 100% of time time once you're out of the starter areas. They either faced going out of business or they drastically changed their game design to keep their monthly subscribers. I guess the sweet-spot was to let players chose how they get to max level and then learn how to act in a raid the higher level content.


Edited, Jun 27th 2011 9:25pm by rubina
#42 Jun 27 2011 at 7:26 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Playing an MMO solo is like playing Mario Party by yourself without any alcohol.

A sad, sad cry for help.
I dunno why people get so touchy over being labeled accurately.
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#43 Jun 27 2011 at 7:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalexia wrote:
I don't know why anyone would put solo content in an MMO. Well, that's not true: I know why, but solo content seems wrongheaded for a principally multiplayer genre--not so much from a developer standpoint, since game companies will follow the money, but from a consumer standpoint.

Why don't casual players and "busy" people play single-player games, or match-oriented multiplayer games, or @#%^ around on Facebook, or whatever casuals and "busy" people do?

What is the rationale for buying an MMO, the premise of which is lengthy, cooperative, multiplayer action, only to demand short and soloable content?

I'm not suggesting casuals are ruining video games, but I am saying that casuals are ruining video games. And don't use the "jerks" to justify solo content, ZAM. Part of the MMO experience is combing through the digital filth and forming social bonds with people who don't suck. If you don't want to participate in this facet of online gaming, I can recommend some other games that simulate it.

At least it is good to hear that those awful guildleves will be repurposed. I guess that means I won't need to do them anymore. Unless the loot is good. And some of it may be. Because of casuals. Ruining the game.


I think you're view of multiplayer and what makes an MMO is very narrow, and has not been shared by the majority of players since 2004, maybe even earlier. I'd argue that the defining feature of MMOs is actually the persistent world and the server wide interactions, and not grouping.

Anyways, I'd agree that someone who purchases an MMO with the intent to solo literally 100% of the time is completely in the wrong genre. But I think at this point people who want forced grouping for essentially all progression is also now in the wrong genre. You will not see another game like it. No company is willing to shell out the money for a product that so few people are interested in.

I like grouping up to kill dragons, groups of beastmen, bosses. I don't like grouping to kill wildlife to watch my SP bar grow, I prefer doing my chores on my own terms.
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#44 Jun 27 2011 at 8:07 PM Rating: Good
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Guildleves could already be soloed so I assume all they are doing is adjusting the SP gain. I'm not keen on this change since right now, viable ways to SP at a decent rate are severely lacking solo/party outside of Guildleves. If they don't provide some surefire ways to replace leve-linking, there is only going to be more ******** about how grindy the game is currently.

I sincerely hope some of the new content is challenging in some form. Their adjustment of the 5 OG NMs leads me to a loss of faith in that aspect. Especially since they were able to be killed with 8 or less before the Light/Full party change.

Edited, Jun 27th 2011 10:10pm by Hyena
#45 Jun 27 2011 at 8:13 PM Rating: Default
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Hyena wrote:
Guildleves could already be soloed so I assume all they are doing is adjusting the SP gain. I'm not keen on this change since right now, viable ways to SP in at a decent rate are severly lacking solo/party outside of Guildleves. If they don't provide some surefire ways to replace leve-linking, there is only going to be more ******** about how grindy the game is currently.


i see this happening too
i hate guildleves and want them to be left for casual players with little time to spare and i believe several unique dungeons should be the way to level and obtain loot, however, the dungeons they announced so far are not the elaborate dungeons many people have become used to leveling in. this could cause alot people to go back to that horrible horrible dispickable party camp killing ONLY ONE mob at a time like FFXI.
i wouldnt be against FFXI style party camping if they allowed us to kill multiple mobs at a time, i like using AOE abilities (granted they overhaul the aoe toggle to something more efficient IE: a mode that stays on/off till otherwise specified) so i think it was a shame and an absolute waste of cool spells to literally hardly ever find a decent use for them.
FFXI is not a game myself and the average MMO gamer wants to ever touch again. we want an MMO with good solid MMO functionality in a Final Fantasy world.... whats so wrong with that?

Edited, Jun 27th 2011 10:18pm by pixelpop
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#46 Jun 27 2011 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:
I don't know why anyone would put solo content in an MMO. Well, that's not true: I know why, but solo content seems wrongheaded for a principally multiplayer genre--not so much from a developer standpoint, since game companies will follow the money, but from a consumer standpoint.

Why don't casual players and "busy" people play single-player games, or match-oriented multiplayer games, or @#%^ around on Facebook, or whatever casuals and "busy" people do?

What is the rationale for buying an MMO, the premise of which is lengthy, cooperative, multiplayer action, only to demand short and soloable content?

I'm not suggesting casuals are ruining video games, but I am saying that casuals are ruining video games. And don't use the "jerks" to justify solo content, ZAM. Part of the MMO experience is combing through the digital filth and forming social bonds with people who don't suck. If you don't want to participate in this facet of online gaming, I can recommend some other games that simulate it.

At least it is good to hear that those awful guildleves will be repurposed. I guess that means I won't need to do them anymore. Unless the loot is good. And some of it may be. Because of casuals. Ruining the game.


Meh, I generally agree. XD
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#47 Jun 27 2011 at 11:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
kanekitty is making it sound like its a good thing to force a game to be completely dependant on party play in all aspects.... well no one wants to play that kind of game


Uhm that's what they did with FFXI (don't know current situation, just that it used to be like that)


I didn't mean to imply that people prefer soloing over parties. But most of them will adopt to the best way to grind skill points. Right now the popular method is failing leves and in the future it might be soloing by completing sidequests for sp.
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#48 Jun 27 2011 at 11:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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i always think its weird when people complain about solo content in MMOs. i mean, i get the argument (its a massively MULTIPLAYER rpg, yes yes we know), but why does it have to be one or the other? solo or group? answer is, it doesn't, and furthermore, it isn't.

I can't think of any well known MMOs that deliver solo content at the cost of group play. you solo if you want, or you group if you want, or you solo and happen to run into some people and maybe decide to group up.

Sometimes I want to go to the park, sit by myself and read a book. Or draw. Or whatever. I like having other people around me in the park. I like the option of interacting with them. I like the option of minding my own business too. I like that other people are doing stuff around me. The world feels alive, but i don't feel the need to put my book down and run over to that group of strangers throwing a frisbee around and join them. See where i'm going with this?

If every time i went to the park, i was forced to interact with other people in order to enjoy myself, well i wouldn't go to the park very much.


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#49 Jun 28 2011 at 12:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
I don't know why anyone would put solo content in an MMO. Well, that's not true: I know why, but solo content seems wrongheaded for a principally multiplayer genre--not so much from a developer standpoint, since game companies will follow the money, but from a consumer standpoint.

Why don't casual players and "busy" people play single-player games, or match-oriented multiplayer games, or @#%^ around on Facebook, or whatever casuals and "busy" people do?

What is the rationale for buying an MMO, the premise of which is lengthy, cooperative, multiplayer action, only to demand short and soloable content?

I'm not suggesting casuals are ruining video games, but I am saying that casuals are ruining video games. And don't use the "jerks" to justify solo content, ZAM. Part of the MMO experience is combing through the digital filth and forming social bonds with people who don't suck. If you don't want to participate in this facet of online gaming, I can recommend some other games that simulate it.

At least it is good to hear that those awful guildleves will be repurposed. I guess that means I won't need to do them anymore. Unless the loot is good. And some of it may be. Because of casuals. Ruining the game.


Meh, I generally agree. XD


Don't agree at all, building a a persistent character on my own time and having the option to group with people when I so choose is my idea of the perfect MMO.
#50 Jun 28 2011 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:
Uhm that's what they did with FFXI (don't know current situation, just that it used to be like that)

Not really. If the subject is limited to leveling, you could level nearly any job to cap solo before FoV and campaign were added. Some were much harder than others, but it was possible. It was not possible to take advantage of experience chain bonus though, so people dismissed it because it wasn't as effective.


almalexia wrote:
Why don't casual players and "busy" people play single-player games, or match-oriented multiplayer games, or @#%^ around on Facebook, or whatever casuals and "busy" people do?

Casuals and busy people play MMOs too. Why don't hardcore players... play hardcore games? XIV is far from a state where someone could even discern hardcore from casual based on the content. Even in XI, the only difference between hardcore and casual was hardcore players could stay up all hours of the night waiting on a land king or spend 3 1/2 hours in dynamis a few times a week.

This argument might actually be valid if it were in a forum for a game that had hardcore content. When is it ever a bad idea to balance solo and party content? Sometimes I don't want to group. Don't tell me you've never had a ***** off' day.
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#51 Jun 28 2011 at 1:22 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
Uhm that's what they did with FFXI (don't know current situation, just that it used to be like that)

Not really. If the subject is limited to leveling, you could level nearly any job to cap solo before FoV and campaign were added. Some were much harder than others, but it was possible. It was not possible to take advantage of experience chain bonus though, so people dismissed it because it wasn't as effective.


almalexia wrote:
Why don't casual players and "busy" people play single-player games, or match-oriented multiplayer games, or @#%^ around on Facebook, or whatever casuals and "busy" people do?

Why don't hardcore players... play hardcore games? XIV is far from a state where someone could even discern hardcore from casual based on the content.
Using today's standards for MMOs, please define "Hardcore" game and get back to me.
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