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Battle Reform: Auto-Attack (06/30/2011) Follow

#1 Jun 30 2011 at 5:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/topics/detail?id=f190cdb1385c767ed137148ace50c372373a87e4

Quote:
Auto-attack will be implemented for Disciples of War and Magic only, and will take the form of a melee attack for all applicable classes. For instance, archers will strike with their bare fists, while conjurers and thaumaturges will deliver a blow with their equipped weapon.

Changes Accompanying Auto-Attack
The stamina gauge will be abolished with the introduction of auto-attack. Consequently, certain actions that have been dependent upon the stamina gauge will either have their effects revised, or be made to affect attack delay. Below is a list of main adjustments being planned.

The following basic attacks will be removed:
Pugilist: Heavy Strike
Gladiator: Light Slash
Marauder: Light Swing
Lancer: Light Thrust

The following actions will be made obtainable at rank 1 instead of rank 2:
Pugilist: Concussive Blow
Gladiator: Red Lotus
Marauder: Trunksplitter
Lancer: Skewer
Archer: Puncture

The abilities Light Shot (Archer), Spirit Dart (Thaumaturge), Phantom Dart (Conjurer), Throw, and Stone Throw will remain available, although their usage will be regulated by a recast timer.

Recast timers will be adjusted for certain actions obtained via quests and guild marks whose action costs were managed solely through the stamina gauge.
Pugilist: Light Strike / Flurry / Pummel
Gladiator: Light Stab / Heavy Slash / Heavy Stab
Marauder: Broad Swing / Full Swing / Heavy Swing
Lancer: Heavy Thrust / Pierce / Full Thrust
Archer: Multishot / Close Shot / Heavy Shot
Thaumaturge: Shadowfall / Silhouette
Conjurer: Nature’s Fury / Elemental Shroud

The effects of the following actions will be changed:
Speed Surge will affect auto-attack delay instead of the stamina gauge.
Ambidexterity will increase the chance of blocks while guarding, instead of halving the stamina gauge cost of your next action.
Chainspell will no longer reduce the stamina cost of your next spell.

Patch 1.19 and Beyond
Auto-attack functionality will be prioritized in 1.18. Changes such as battle algorithm revisions, attack motion diversification, and peripheral motion tweaks are scheduled to take place in 1.19 and subsequent patches.

Attack Delivery
1.18 will introduce auto-attack in its basic form, which will permit Disciples of War and Magic to deliver a single strike (double for pugilists) each time it activates. Future patches will usher in multiple attacks, the activation rate of which will be determined by actions, traits, and items.

Algorithms
The existing algorithm will be maintained for 1.18, with attack delay to be introduced as a new parameter for weapons. Work to revise the algorithm will commence in earnest from 1.19.

Actions Obtainable via Quests and Guild Marks
Actions falling into this category will be brought under re-examination, which will include a review of developmental direction. This will be done together with the planned revisions we have for actions in the future. As this may result in drastic changes to certain actions, we are considering ways to allow players to reselect actions, such as a refund of guild marks.
View the auto-attack video that accompanied the Letter from the Producer, XI.

Peruse the Battle Reform Blueprint as composed by lead battle planner Akihiko Matsui.





Edited, Jun 30th 2011 7:40am by Sephrick
#2 Jun 30 2011 at 6:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
archers will strike with their bare fists

If ARCs are supposed to be ranged attackers, wouldn't it make more sense for them to throw a punch?
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#3 Jun 30 2011 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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Nice to get that. grats on sage Sephrick you deserve it more than I
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#4 Jun 30 2011 at 6:24 AM Rating: Good
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This is exciting to say the least.

From the future plans i would not be surprised to see the PS3 version out around 1.20 or soon after.
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#5 Jun 30 2011 at 6:41 AM Rating: Excellent
Almalexia wrote:
Quote:
archers will strike with their bare fists

If ARCs are supposed to be ranged attackers, wouldn't it make more sense for them to throw a punch?
Dreadful joke aside, I really think they ought to let archers at least be decent with a dagger or something. Or maybe they could poke the mob with an un-nocked arrow something? ****, even having them kick would probably be better.
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#6 Jun 30 2011 at 6:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Ambidexterity will increase the chance of blocks while guarding, instead of halving the stamina gauge cost of your next action


I could have sworn blockrate while gaurding was already 100%. So Ambidexterity was useless and stays useless?
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#7 Jun 30 2011 at 6:51 AM Rating: Good
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Lubriderm Quick Hands wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
Quote:
archers will strike with their bare fists

If ARCs are supposed to be ranged attackers, wouldn't it make more sense for them to throw a punch?
Dreadful joke aside, I really think they ought to let archers at least be decent with a dagger or something. Or maybe they could poke the mob with an un-nocked arrow something? ****, even having them kick would probably be better.


They should auto-attack with ********** because any self respecting Archer shouldn't be standing up so close.
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#8 Jun 30 2011 at 7:25 AM Rating: Good
RedGalka wrote:
Lubriderm Quick Hands wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
Quote:
archers will strike with their bare fists

If ARCs are supposed to be ranged attackers, wouldn't it make more sense for them to throw a punch?
Dreadful joke aside, I really think they ought to let archers at least be decent with a dagger or something. Or maybe they could poke the mob with an un-nocked arrow something? ****, even having them kick would probably be better.


They should auto-attack with ********** because any self respecting Archer shouldn't be standing up so close.
Soloing leve mobs that are in groups can make having distance an issue at times. At least at my low levels.
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#9 Jun 30 2011 at 7:30 AM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
Quote:
Ambidexterity will increase the chance of blocks while guarding, instead of halving the stamina gauge cost of your next action


I could have sworn blockrate while gaurding was already 100%. So Ambidexterity was useless and stays useless?


I think, they will be making block auto as well rather than raise shield command (only my speculation).

How ever at the moment while guarding block % are equal to the block a shield has and no shield has 100% block rate. Ambidexterity will actually be good now, as you can use a low % block shield with high wield rate.
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#10 Jun 30 2011 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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RedGalka wrote:
They should auto-attack with ********** because any self respecting Archer shouldn't be standing up so close.


ONLY if its the girly slapfight type of ********** complete with nini whining.
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#11 Jun 30 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
I think, they will be making block auto as well rather than raise shield command (only my speculation).


I think they would have mentioned that today if they were planning it. It may be that, with auto-attack, blocking will be made a more feasible.
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#12 Jun 30 2011 at 8:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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With the current armoury system I can see why they couldn't just give archers a dagger along with their bow. But moving forward I would not be surprised if future archer bows were released as a combo (bow + dagger). It would still be considered one piece of gear as to differentiate it from a normal dagger that gladiators use. But i just don't see giving punch to archers as being anything but a temporary placeholder for the time being.
#13 Jun 30 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Decent
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guess it was too much to ask for ARC to use their bow as a stave or club akin to some movies when an archer runs out of ammo. Even a hunting knife would have been acceptable... oh well, we'll just consider this a begining and hope it changes.
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#14 Jun 30 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Interesting. So when is 1.18 slated to come out?
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#15 Jun 30 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default
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Lots of post lately from the dev team. Are they getting desperate?
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#16 Jun 30 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
Interesting. So when is 1.18 slated to come out?


My current guess is mid-August.
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#17insanekangaroo, Posted: Jun 30 2011 at 11:01 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) It will come out sometime post-today.
#18 Jun 30 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Default
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scheduled for mid september.
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#19 Jun 30 2011 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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insanekangaroo wrote:
Lots of post lately from the dev team. Are they getting desperate?


wouldn't really call it desparation. They've sent last few months working on this patch which has some significant changes. And now that its getting close to release date, they are releasing some teaser patch notes to get people excited. Pretty standard PR protocol.
#20 Jun 30 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I know I should be pessimistic about the date but I actually think it's going to be next week <.< >.>

It almost seems like they're giving us information on the frontpage every day now. If they continue this trend up to the patch then either the patch is going to be next week or we'll have another week full of info.

I doubt we'll have another week full of info. Patch is big but not that big...

And if the patch isn't next week and there isn't a lot of information then the information would have been spread out more...
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#21 Jun 30 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
I know I should be pessimistic about the date but I actually think it's going to be next week <.< >.>

It almost seems like they're giving us information on the frontpage every day now. If they continue this trend up to the patch then either the patch is going to be next week or we'll have another week full of info.

I doubt we'll have another week full of info. Patch is big but not that big...

And if the patch isn't next week and there isn't a lot of information then the information would have been spread out more...


I agree with this thinking.

This is sounding like the lead up to the patch release, and this is to get us excited to turn on FFXIV when that happens. I know I am.
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#22 Jun 30 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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hexaemeron wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Interesting. So when is 1.18 slated to come out?


My current guess is mid-August.
If that's really the case, that'd be pretty sad.

Edited, Jun 30th 2011 2:43pm by bsphil
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#23 Jun 30 2011 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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This may be the one time I say this, but I'd almost rather see them delay the auto attack until they get the whole thing implemented completely and finalized. I'm a bit confused when they mention battle algorithms aren't going to be updated until 1.19.
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#24 Jun 30 2011 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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bsphil wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
bsphil wrote:
Interesting. So when is 1.18 slated to come out?


My current guess is mid-August.
If that's really the case, that'd be pretty sad.

Edited, Jun 30th 2011 2:43pm by bsphil


There was a discussion about this before but in short the lastest should be mid July.

The long story is that it was originally set for mid june I think which became mid-late june. In the letter from the producer XI it was said to have been delayed by two weeks, (I was satisfied with the reason personally but cant remember what it was.) It then became a point of discussion as to what mid-late june meant effectively. As the updates usually happen on a thursday (from my observations anyway) mid june would be 16th. Mid-late June would in my book be 16th-23rd but some took it to be 30th (I would class as end of june but doesnt matter to me) two weeks delay would then mean today at the earliest or 14th July or 'mid July' at the latest. I think that sums it up?
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#25 Jun 30 2011 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
This may be the one time I say this, but I'd almost rather see them delay the auto attack until they get the whole thing implemented completely and finalized. I'm a bit confused when they mention battle algorithms aren't going to be updated until 1.19.


This.


Square wrote:
Light Shot (Archer)....will be regulated by a recast timer.


Square wrote:
Recast timers will be adjusted for certain actions obtained via quests and guild marks whose action costs were managed solely through the stamina gauge.

Archer: Multishot


Pretty much the same as it was in XI though with fists instead of daggers. I just hope the recast isn't too high or soloing on Archer will take a kick in the balls. Archers are paper thin and the whole idea is to destroy the mob with high spike damage before it eats your face.

Then there is Multishot, here's hoping it's only on a one or two second recast.

Edited, Jun 30th 2011 5:41pm by CupDeNoodles
#26 Jun 30 2011 at 4:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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SE makes few posts: "Other companies talk a lot. Other companies post on their forums all the time. I like Blizzard: they at least talk to their customers! &c."

SE makes frequent, informative posts:
insanekangaroo wrote:
Lots of post lately from the dev team. Are they getting desperate?
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#27 Jun 30 2011 at 6:12 PM Rating: Default
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So I'll still, for example, have to spam Heavy Swing on Marauder, now with the added bonus that if I wait a moment too long Light Swing will go off automatically (yay).. And when I finally get to play Musketeer nine years from now, in all likelihood there will be no auto-attack for guns.

Not seeing any upside with this.
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#28 Jul 01 2011 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't played in a few months months. 1.18 will be bringing some much needed changes but honestly, if they do 1.19 right, that might just be the patch that brings me back to final fantasy.
#29 Jul 01 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
So I'll still, for example, have to spam Heavy Swing on Marauder, now with the added bonus that if I wait a moment too long Light Swing will go off automatically (yay).. And when I finally get to play Musketeer nine years from now, in all likelihood there will be no auto-attack for guns.

Not seeing any upside with this.


Looking at the OP:

Quote:
The following basic attacks will be removed:
Pugilist: Heavy Strike
Gladiator: Light Slash
Marauder: Light Swing
Lancer: Light Thrust


If I understand the changes correctly think it would be yay for you indeed. After all, you would be the only one with Light Swing!

Maybe you will also be the only one who can play Musketeer with guns on auto attack as well.
#30 Jul 01 2011 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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My assumption was that they are removing those from our use because they will basically be occuring automatically. The text will just probably say "hits" like XI.. But if what I'm describing won't be the case, I'm all ears on what you think our auto-attacks will be like.

In the Marauder example, I'm sure "Heavy Swing" will still hit harder, and now there is no stamina cost.

I don't think I articulated what I was thinking in that post very well, but considering a) we'll still be spamming attacks to gain TP and b) no auto-attack for ARC -along with some bizarre punching at times-, this seems very disappointing to me. Especially considering this has been their #1 priority for many months now.

Edit - We've also got a problem if they don't allow us to turn auto-attack off. Sleep something in melee range? You'll attack it right after.

Edited, Jul 1st 2011 7:17am by Coyohma
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#31 Jul 01 2011 at 5:22 AM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
My assumption was that they are removing those from our use because they will basically be occuring automatically. The text will just probably say "hits" like XI.. But if what I'm describing won't be the case, I'm all ears on what you think our auto-attacks will be like.


I am speculating myself. Until rcently I just assumed that they would copy FFXI's battle system. So indeed, regular hits combined with player-controlled weapon skills. No auto-attack for ranged weapons would make sense then and ARC's auto-attack using fists would be equivalent to the RNG's use of, say, dagger(s), although bare knuckles doesn't sound too appealing.

I have read so many letters, posts, articles and schemes about changes that I stopped spelling them out. Bottom line is that no one knows exactly how things are going to be and that most people are worried in one way or another and willing to argue about something they don't even know for sure.

I just want to see things for myself. SE should hurry up now or else .....

... I will have to wait longer. Ugh.
#32 Jul 01 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Good
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I have no idea why light shot, spirit dart etc aren't going to just be auto attacks, other than it looks less than realistic to fire a bow at point blank range.
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#33 Jul 01 2011 at 9:29 AM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
I have no idea why light shot, spirit dart etc aren't going to just be auto attacks, other than it looks less than realistic to fire a bow at point blank range.


That's probably the cost involved in MP and arrows.

If there was an auto attack on these classes which would require MP or arrows you would get people crying that this would be unfair, if there were no cost then you might get people abusing the system and not using much else.

Catch 22.
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#34 Jul 01 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Interesting. So when is 1.18 slated to come out?


My guess would be around Letter From the Producer XIV
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#35 Jul 01 2011 at 10:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
I have no idea why light shot, spirit dart etc aren't going to just be auto attacks, other than it looks less than realistic to fire a bow at point blank range.


I don't want auto attack on Arc, I don't think. At least not an Auto-shot.

Think about it like this:

Now, Multishot is on a recast timer. can you imagine the rage that would be induced trying to set up the big dmg swings? Nock an arrow, nock an arrow, auto attack.. DAMNIT. Raging Strike, Blindside, Nock, Ferocity, nock, auto attack... it would be VERY tough to get in the big TP moves and put up al the buffs in time.
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#36 Jul 01 2011 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I have no idea why light shot, spirit dart etc aren't going to just be auto attacks, other than it looks less than realistic to fire a bow at point blank range.


That's probably the cost involved in MP and arrows.

If there was an auto attack on these classes which would require MP or arrows you would get people crying that this would be unfair, if there were no cost then you might get people abusing the system and not using much else.

Catch 22.
Spirit Dart doesn't use MP though, unless I've been completely zoning out when playing CON.

Edited, Jul 1st 2011 11:45am by bsphil
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#37 Jul 01 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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This is a big deal for me. I hated XIV's battle system, to the point where I just didn't bother fighting anything.

I preferred XI's slower combat style. As did many other people.

I may give it another shot, if this turns out to be good. It does sound like the game is getting some rather radical changes. More so than I expected, in fact.
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#38 Jul 01 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
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Coyohma wrote:
We've also got a problem if they don't allow us to turn auto-attack off. Sleep something in melee range? You'll attack it right after.


No doubt SE has already thought of this extremely obvious point... r-right?
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#39 Jul 01 2011 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
We've also got a problem if they don't allow us to turn auto-attack off. Sleep something in melee range? You'll attack it right after.


No doubt SE has already thought of this extremely obvious point... r-right?


No, this was the same in FFXI. Still is. It's not unflappable either. Take off target lock, turn your back.

How is this any different from the current situation where eveyr melee isn't really working together and hiting 111211131112 the entire battle? That still wakes up mobs, correct?
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#40 Jul 01 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
We've also got a problem if they don't allow us to turn auto-attack off. Sleep something in melee range? You'll attack it right after.


No doubt SE has already thought of this extremely obvious point... r-right?


No, this was the same in FFXI. Still is. It's not unflappable either. Take off target lock, turn your back.

How is this any different from the current situation where eveyr melee isn't really working together and hiting 111211131112 the entire battle? That still wakes up mobs, correct?

lol in every MMO the way you stop a mob from being woken up is...... TURN AROUND SO YOU DONT HIT THEM.

oh but then again most other MMOs dont hold your hand when it comes to targeting and such like FFXI.
ive always disliked auto target, it takes away from player skill to me.
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#41 Jul 01 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
We've also got a problem if they don't allow us to turn auto-attack off. Sleep something in melee range? You'll attack it right after.


No doubt SE has already thought of this extremely obvious point... r-right?


No, this was the same in FFXI. Still is. It's not unflappable either. Take off target lock, turn your back.

How is this any different from the current situation where eveyr melee isn't really working together and hiting 111211131112 the entire battle? That still wakes up mobs, correct?


Oh, I thought we were talking about the ability to disengage. I thought by "allow us to turn auto-attack off" Coyohma meant "allow us to stop attacking if we want."

Do we know that there will be an "engage" command? SE isn't going to just have your character go crazy on whatever he/she uses an ability on, right?
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#42 Jul 01 2011 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
We've also got a problem if they don't allow us to turn auto-attack off. Sleep something in melee range? You'll attack it right after.


No doubt SE has already thought of this extremely obvious point... r-right?


No, this was the same in FFXI. Still is. It's not unflappable either. Take off target lock, turn your back.

How is this any different from the current situation where eveyr melee isn't really working together and hiting 111211131112 the entire battle? That still wakes up mobs, correct?


Oh, I thought we were talking about the ability to disengage. I thought by "allow us to turn auto-attack off" Coyohma meant "allow us to stop attacking if we want."

Do we know that there will be an "engage" command? SE isn't going to just have your character go crazy on whatever he/she uses an ability on, right?


Oh I get what your saying.. Yeah I hope not. It would be silly to go into Active ode and just wildly swing at anything we HAPPEN to target.


Yeah let's hope so. I imagine so, like press one to engage/disengage.
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#43 Jul 01 2011 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
I have no idea why light shot, spirit dart etc aren't going to just be auto attacks, other than it looks less than realistic to fire a bow at point blank range.


I don't want auto attack on Arc, I don't think. At least not an Auto-shot.

Think about it like this:

Now, Multishot is on a recast timer. can you imagine the rage that would be induced trying to set up the big dmg swings? Nock an arrow, nock an arrow, auto attack.. DAMNIT. Raging Strike, Blindside, Nock, Ferocity, nock, auto attack... it would be VERY tough to get in the big TP moves and put up al the buffs in time.


If they trashed the arrow nocking garbage and picked up the battle pace, this wouldn't be an issue. If they go back to that slow mind numbing battle system, many people may never come back. Then again, if they don't, others won't return. They're kinda screwed.


Edited, Jul 1st 2011 5:40pm by Transmigration
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Eithne Draocht
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#44 Jul 02 2011 at 5:57 AM Rating: Good
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I'm surprised they are making Archer attack with hands in close quarters. I would have thought they would have made them use the bow like a quarterstaff. Thinking kind of like Legolas in the Lord of the Rings movies.

But meh... at least we're getting auto-attack.
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