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Jump has been confirmed to deffinitely be implimented.Follow

#52 Jul 01 2011 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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reptiletim wrote:
Rinsui wrote:
Now people, join hands,
and enjoy your angsty feelings,
because people will be able to jump...

And you, you will have to WATCH IT.

The horror.
The horror.
"Back in my day, we couldn't jump over a 4" log in the road...and we LIKED it! Parradamo Tor was our mecca, and we proved to the world we didn't need a 'jump' button. Why, we would scale that cliff over and over again just to prove to the world just how lousy jumping was in a game. This was a true man's game...the kind of game that boys played to become an adult. Jumping is for pussies. If you can't walk straight to it, without any obstacles in the way, you ain't meant to get to it. That's how it was and that's the way it should always be! Now get off my lawn!"
I didn't like Parradamo Tor, and I climbed that dozens and dozens of times doing the Hagun ENM on a regular basis. I didn't want a jump button in FFXI far more though. By the way, it's faulty logic to assume that the only two answers to that issue would be to either do nothing or add a jump button.
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#53 Jul 01 2011 at 7:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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I hated loved hated loved Parradamo Tor.
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#54 Jul 02 2011 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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add swimming IMO
#55 Jul 02 2011 at 12:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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Archmage Skmm wrote:
add swimming IMO

THIIIIIIS ^
is one thing i never understood.... even in WoW
your wearing all of your gear and acc.s, how does it make any plausible sense to not only be able to perfectly scour an entire ocean for whatever reason wearing all of that gear but to last any longer than a minute or two is too much.... and not even be wet afterward.

every MMO ive seen takes swimming just too far. swimming should only be for very specific "i really need to find this".
youd have to use equipment, rent the equipment.... idk it just doesnt make any sense to me.

jumping may not very entire realistic if your wearing heavy armour, but the whole point is to overcome an obstacle, swimming serves no purpose at all.


Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 3:00am by pixelpop
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#56 Jul 02 2011 at 1:09 AM Rating: Good
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Really? Cause I would love some swimming in this game. Would be great.
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#57 Jul 02 2011 at 1:16 AM Rating: Decent
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pixelpop wrote:
swimming serves no purpose at all.


I remember, way back in the day, taking a break from FFXI and trying WoW. I was impressed at being able to swim... but the same seaweed, logs, rocks, and bubbles were in every lake, river, pond, and ocean. Once or twice there was a clam, though, or the same sunken ship here as over there, but that was pretty much all there was to it. They've since greatly increased the amount of time people can stay underwater, too, and added mounts that double your speed while submerged.

Swimming never felt to me as though it lived up to its potential: though, at its best, it's really just a zone with a different skin, anyway, since flying and swimming use the same gravity in WoW. *shrug*
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#58 Jul 02 2011 at 1:19 AM Rating: Decent
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pixelpop wrote:
Archmage Skmm wrote:
add swimming IMO

THIIIIIIS ^
is one thing i never understood.... even in WoW
your wearing all of your gear and acc.s, how does it make any plausible sense to not only be able to perfectly scour an entire ocean for whatever reason wearing all of that gear but to last any longer than a minute or two is too much.... and not even be wet afterward.

every MMO ive seen takes swimming just too far. swimming should only be for very specific "i really need to find this".
youd have to use equipment, rent the equipment.... idk it just doesnt make any sense to me.

jumping may not very entire realistic if your wearing heavy armour, but the whole point is to overcome an obstacle, swimming serves no purpose at all.


Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 3:00am by pixelpop


WOW has underwater quests, now cataclysm has an entire zone underwater.

I feel the world more real, if I can swim in water.
like im actually in this world. and I hate the way that in 14 you have to do almost everything via opening the menu, this reduce the feel of role playing.



Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 12:29am by Skmm
#59 Jul 02 2011 at 2:11 AM Rating: Default
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Swimming as a druid walrus is awesome o_0
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#60 Jul 02 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Good
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I wish a game could feel 'real' to me simply by letting me swim underwater.

I can't imagine life where swimming was an accepted alternative to walking on land.
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#62 Jul 02 2011 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Chromanin wrote:
If this game requires a jump button, well, then I guess I'm glad it's getting a jump button. I've never felt the need to jump in an MMO, though. Couple times I tried it in games that did have it, it got me stuck or killed. Only MMO I played where it had any use was City of Heroes. Even then, I wouldn't say it necessites it, not for my character anyway.

Why do people cream their pants over a jump button? I don't care if it's in the game or not. If it's merely an aesthetic, it's not like I'm forced to use it, but what struggle do people think is being advanced by having a jump button in this game?



Jump is necessary in WoW and Rift.. never played City of Heroes. I think people are against it because it adds a third dimension to boss fights and such where you might be required to react quickly and jump over things or use it to avoid taking damage. I don't mean this as an insult, but it seems many old ffxi players enjoyed not having to fight fast paced battles requiring "twitch" gameplay. Which is totally a matter of taste and doesn't mean any player is better than another. I've heard people just say it's "annoying" though too.



Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 6:42am by Transmigration
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#63 Jul 02 2011 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Archmage Skmm wrote:
WOW has underwater quests, now cataclysm has an entire zone underwater.

I feel the world more real, if I can swim in water.


But it's not as though swimming adds a new dimension to the gameplay. In the underwater zones you can breathe underwater... and move about at mount speed... and you move exactly as you do when flying, completely unimpeded. The only reason it's "underwater" at all is because of the "watery effects" that accompany it.
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#64zuogehaomeng, Posted: Jul 02 2011 at 11:31 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Games are not real. IDK. I never liked the argument for realistic. The game looks realistic and that's good enough for me, now make it fun. Jumping is fun. Swimming is fun. Flying is fun. Now add them. I mean for goodness sakes the FISH FLOAT IN THE SKY in FF11. How real is that? Pugils anyone? What about Magic? what about an invisible wall that doesn't let you into the sea?
#65 Jul 02 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Archmage Skmm wrote:
WOW has underwater quests, now cataclysm has an entire zone underwater.

I feel the world more real, if I can swim in water.


But it's not as though swimming adds a new dimension to the gameplay. In the underwater zones you can breathe underwater... and move about at mount speed... and you move exactly as you do when flying, completely unimpeded. The only reason it's "underwater" at all is because of the "watery effects" that accompany it.


...

It adds an dimension compared to just plainly walking on the earth. It's a new type of terrain to explore, just like the sky.

I really don't understand why you're complaining. And don't with it's poorly implemented as an arguement, because it has nothing to do with if an underwater zone or sky zone could be an additional experience.

Have you ever seen Zelda Majora's Mask? That game had really nice integration of water and skyish features.
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#66 Jul 02 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Transmigration wrote:
Chromanin wrote:
If this game requires a jump button, well, then I guess I'm glad it's getting a jump button. I've never felt the need to jump in an MMO, though. Couple times I tried it in games that did have it, it got me stuck or killed. Only MMO I played where it had any use was City of Heroes. Even then, I wouldn't say it necessites it, not for my character anyway.

Why do people cream their pants over a jump button? I don't care if it's in the game or not. If it's merely an aesthetic, it's not like I'm forced to use it, but what struggle do people think is being advanced by having a jump button in this game?



Jump is necessary in WoW and Rift.. never played City of Heroes. I think people are against it because it adds a third dimension to boss fights and such where you might be required to react quickly and jump over things or use it to avoid taking damage. I don't mean this as an insult, but it seems many old ffxi players enjoyed not having to fight fast paced battles requiring "twitch" gameplay. Which is totally a matter of taste and doesn't mean any player is better than another. I've heard people just say it's "annoying" though too.



Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 6:42am by Transmigration


Like I said, if there's a reason for it, fine. If the boss fights in FFXIV necessitate a jump button, I'm all for it. Aside from you, though, no one has ever given me that reason. 9/10 I just hear, "This is 2011! We need a jump button!" Most people just seem to want it for the sake of having it. I think some people don't even know why they want it. They just do.

Never played Rift. So I can't comment. I know jumping can be good in boss fights in WoW, but just running out of the way was always enough for me. I wasn't a big end-game guy, though. Maybe some boss attacks require you jump out of the way. If people want boss fights they have to duck, roll, and jump in to survive, I wish they would just say that instead of screaming at the top of their lungs "I WANT TO JUMP! WAHHHHHHHH!"

Sorry. Thank you for articulating the reasons as to why jump can be beneficial to MMORPG gameplay. I hope if we get a jump button, it's because we "need" a jump button.
#67 Jul 02 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Default
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Transmigration wrote:
I don't mean this as an insult, but it seems many old ffxi players enjoyed not having to fight fast paced battles requiring "twitch" gameplay. Which is totally a matter of taste and doesn't mean any player is better than another.


You were probably playing the wrong jobs.
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#68 Jul 02 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Good
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Chromanin wrote:
Transmigration wrote:
Chromanin wrote:
If this game requires a jump button, well, then I guess I'm glad it's getting a jump button. I've never felt the need to jump in an MMO, though. Couple times I tried it in games that did have it, it got me stuck or killed. Only MMO I played where it had any use was City of Heroes. Even then, I wouldn't say it necessites it, not for my character anyway.

Why do people cream their pants over a jump button? I don't care if it's in the game or not. If it's merely an aesthetic, it's not like I'm forced to use it, but what struggle do people think is being advanced by having a jump button in this game?



Jump is necessary in WoW and Rift.. never played City of Heroes. I think people are against it because it adds a third dimension to boss fights and such where you might be required to react quickly and jump over things or use it to avoid taking damage. I don't mean this as an insult, but it seems many old ffxi players enjoyed not having to fight fast paced battles requiring "twitch" gameplay. Which is totally a matter of taste and doesn't mean any player is better than another. I've heard people just say it's "annoying" though too.



Edited, Jul 2nd 2011 6:42am by Transmigration


Like I said, if there's a reason for it, fine. If the boss fights in FFXIV necessitate a jump button, I'm all for it. Aside from you, though, no one has ever given me that reason. 9/10 I just hear, "This is 2011! We need a jump button!" Most people just seem to want it for the sake of having it. I think some people don't even know why they want it. They just do.

Never played Rift. So I can't comment. I know jumping can be good in boss fights in WoW, but just running out of the way was always enough for me. I wasn't a big end-game guy, though. Maybe some boss attacks require you jump out of the way. If people want boss fights they have to duck, roll, and jump in to survive, I wish they would just say that instead of screaming at the top of their lungs "I WANT TO JUMP! WAHHHHHHHH!"

Sorry. Thank you for articulating the reasons as to why jump can be beneficial to MMORPG gameplay. I hope if we get a jump button, it's because we "need" a jump button.


To elaborate further with a specific example, if you jump when the big guys in stonecore do their stompwave you can take 0 damage. The last boss in vortex pinnacle heroic mode also does a lightning move that creates a static charge holding you to the ground if you don't jump to avoid it hitting your feet. After that he does AoE and it kills all who aren't in a little area you must run to to stay shielded. Just thought I'd throw it out there.
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#69 Jul 04 2011 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
You don't really believe this, do you? (Hint: After Thursday...)

Anyway, about:
Quote:
List practical things that Jump adds to an MMO:

•1. Overcoming tiny barriers in the world geometry that should be edited out rather than leaped over
•2.


2.: A third Dimension. Welcome to 2011.


Ugh.. -facepalm-

Seriously... I wonder if anyone ever stops to think before they make that remark of how unfounded it is?

I realize people use that statement, or its variant description, "next-gen", because they think it's a really clever and insightful remark that's somehow damning to the target of their criticism.

Unfortunately, it isn't. It isn't clever and it only makes the person saying it look ignorant... willfully or otherwise.

It's not a clever insight. It's a completely ignorant and unsupported argument.

There is nothing "2011" or "next-gen" about jumping.

It's a design decision based on requirements of the gameplay of a given title.

Let's look at some examples of why it's not "2011"
- Jumpman. A 2D platforming game that came out in 1983.
- Donky Kong. A well known and beloved game that came out in 1981 and has spawned a number of sequels and spin-offs.
- Super Mario Bros. A hugely popular and successful series that came out in 1985.

You get the idea. There is nothing "2011" or, again, "next gen" as some will argue it, about jumping. It's a gameplay mechanic almost as old as video games themselves that is implemented in games when it's necessary to the gameplay. This remains true whether the game came out in 1981, or 2011 or is due to come out in 2021.

Some of the most successful and beloved games ever released didn't have a jump button nor any traditional jump mechanic. They succeeded regardless.

So.... can we please lay this myth that jumping in a game is somehow at all related to what year, or gaming "generation" it's designed in? One has nothing to do with the other. Never has. Never will.





Edited, Jul 5th 2011 12:19am by Preypacer73
#70 Jul 05 2011 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:
I have so little faith in SE that it wouldn't surprise me if jumping is essentially just a visual thing that doesn't actually allow people to jump down cliffs or over invisible walls/collisions.

I agree, all we've been told so far is "Jump is coming," and now, "Jump is coming, and it will cancel spells." Unless I'm mistaken there has been no "Jump is coming, to allow for X, Y, or Z."

First off, having people jump to cancel spells is bizarre. In what way is this logical? I'm trying to imagine this happening in a group setting and it just seems stupid.. The only positive is that, at least now, people don't cancel spells very often.

If you're going to allow people to jump, it needs to have a practical use. Having the option to jump/climb/etc pop up only when the terrain presents the need is a reasonable way to implement it. This could even be taken to battle, if you wanted it to affect battle, where the option would only become available when the situation called for it. Say, the window for jump/dodge/whatever opens as the monster is readying a particular TP move. This could also work with reptiletim and Transmigration's examples.

Allowing for jumping anywhere, anytime would be harder to manage. With XIV's realistic fantasy setting you don't want something to look unnatural. Idiots hopping up and down like Mexican jumping beans for no reason would qualify as that. So, I think Liki's point about moving slower while jumping than running is a good one. Discourage it if possible.

Personally if I were calling the shots, I would have the character automatically maneuver based on the terrain. No need to press anything, just move as normal and the animation will take place. As far as use in battle it would be either be a reactionary/situational option or nothing.

Edited, Jul 5th 2011 10:04am by Coyohma
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#71 Jul 05 2011 at 8:39 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
If you're going to allow people to jump, it needs to have a practical use.

Why?
#72 Jul 05 2011 at 8:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Coyohma wrote:
With XIV's realistic fantasy setting you don't want something to look unnatural.
Wouldn't want to disturb the realism of that half human half cat girl conjuring fire out of thin air, would we?
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#73 Jul 05 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
If you're going to allow people to jump, it needs to have a practical use.

Why?


Use common sense. Why add a function that serves no purpose? Do people really like seeing their character jump that **** badly even though it won't let you get over ledges or avoid TP moves?

Well this is the MMO generation that feels jumping is what makes an MMO good, so I shouldn't question the logic.

Here's a good example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0D-vsvF4Zk&feature=player_profilepage#t=134s

What if Falcom added the jump mechanic to this game...and it did nothing but be an animation? You'd die pretty quickly in most if not all of these boss fights in this game, let alone you'd never get any weapons or armor/side items. In an MMO? Only so few actually let you use it to progress terrain or dodge abilities, and in a sea of millions of F2P MMOs and now upcoming P2P ones...that's not really a good thing and why it's always better to have a USE for it than just throwing it in for shiggles.

Edited, Jul 5th 2011 9:12am by Theonehio
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#74 Jul 05 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
Coyohma wrote:
With XIV's realistic fantasy setting you don't want something to look unnatural.
Wouldn't want to disturb the realism of that half human half cat girl conjuring fire out of thin air, would we?


Which is exactly why you would see nothing odd with a DBZ-Goku-Robot making an appearance (perhaps while driving a flame-decal race car) as a crux in the main story-line, right?

The poster qualified, "With[in] FFXIV's realistic fantasy setting," pointing toward the fact that SE designed everything to have a notable weight and realistic composition to it. Clothes are kind of thick, you can see their hems and stitches, where different materials come together, how it's buckled, etc. but it's still ultimately in a fantasy setting.

"Fantasy" isn't necessarily a synonym for "anything goes." XD
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#75 Jul 05 2011 at 1:50 PM Rating: Decent
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People are complaining about jumping? Are you serious? It's a welcome implementation, hopefully there's a lot more to come.
#76 Jul 05 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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BrokenFox wrote:
People are complaining about jumping? Are you serious? It's a welcome implementation, hopefully there's a lot more to come.

Jesus, you must've burnt the rubber clean from your mouse wheel on your way to the end of this thread. Slow the **** down.

Not one person here has made a complaint against jump from an irrational opposition to jumping. Go and look. It is all pretty reasonable.
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#77 Jul 05 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Coyohma wrote:
First off, having people jump to cancel spells is bizarre. In what way is this logical? I'm trying to imagine this happening in a group setting and it just seems stupid.. The only positive is that, at least now, people don't cancel spells very often.

It's just a great button to do it; Assuming it's spacebar, like in most games, it's a big button, you can't really miss it even in the dark, and it does make sense that you can't cast while doing a spinning jump, backflip or regular jump. I'm all for "jumping can be used to cancel spells". I'm also okay with the idea to jump as a way to attract attention "Hey, come to this npc here!" *jump* *jump*.

I'm fine with people jumping as they run, if it makes the run between cities more fun. As much as I hate it on a "it ruins my experience" point, I do it myself, it's kind of a reflex when you're bored. Run from Elwynn Forest to Red Ridge Mountains, and I'll be shocked if people don't jump slaloms over the fences by the road.

Many people cancelled spells in WoW with jumping, moving, /cancelcast macro, but very few used Escape, which is the only other alternative SE are giving us (moving doesn't cancel spells in XIV, unlike XI. And even then in XI it didn't cancel it, it interrupted it, unless you managed to move back to your original coordinates before the spell actually casted, iirc).

---

My main fear is that FFXIV is basically a 2D game as far as character coordinates goes -- you are essentially glued down to the collision map. That means that they're either going to surprise us with a pretty total revamp of their engine, or jumping will NOT serve the main purpose of jumping (to go over ****).

And if it DOESN'T serve that purpose, then people will keep complaining, because it's not JUMPING they want, it's avoiding stupid logs, rocks and ledges.
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#78 Jul 06 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Good
i didnt want it but i already know im gunna be playing, hit a obstical, and press that jump button. i do wish it was auto like in the other ff games. just hit a ledge and ur character would manuever over it in their own races' way ya know? it just comes down with deal with it lol
#79 Jul 13 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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As for jumping, who cares? I can't believe there is this much uproar about frickin' jumping.

First of all, what makes you guys think they are magically going to turn off terrain collision detection for jumping? Instead of jumping over terrain most likely you'll be jumping into an invisible wall.

Second, allowing people to jump over implemented stop areas (ie, across rivers, or across canyons) will never happen.

But have fun spamming jump while you run.
#80 Jul 13 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
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#81 Jul 14 2011 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Seeing how the animation system in the game is so weak you can't even walk and nod /yes at the same time, I'm wondering how well they'll be able to pull off the look of the jump while in battle. Perhaps they will be adding some sort of procedural animation system? That would be a treat, and it would explain what's taking them so long with it too!
#82 Jul 15 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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HeatSink wrote:
Seeing how the animation system in the game is so weak you can't even walk and nod /yes at the same time


I'm not sure I'd call that "weak." Emotes are actually done rather well in this game. I've seen some games where you can emote and move at the same time... and necks bend impossibly while waists contort around robes that defy all gravity as flesh sticks out of the clipping plane.

The development of simultaneous Nod-Running is pretty low on the list of fixes, I think (or, I hope). XD
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#83 Jul 15 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
HeatSink wrote:
Seeing how the animation system in the game is so weak you can't even walk and nod /yes at the same time


I'm not sure I'd call that "weak." Emotes are actually done rather well in this game. I've seen some games where you can emote and move at the same time... and necks bend impossibly while waists contort around robes that defy all gravity as flesh sticks out of the clipping plane.

The development of simultaneous Nod-Running is pretty low on the list of fixes, I think (or, I hope). XD


I had been playing some other games recently, one being NBA 2K11 and when you're battling for position in the paint their body parts go crazy contortionist on ya like that. I laughed the first couple times, now it just bothers me.
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