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What does FFXI have over FFXIV gameplay-wise?Follow

#1 Jul 03 2011 at 5:30 PM Rating: Default
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I find it hard to define what exactly FFXI has that FFXIV doesn't, and I'm curious to see if anyone else here can. In FFXI, I loved logging in, looking for a party (even for a long time), going out and grinding for hours. That included the Dunes (and actually, I have my most fond memories of that place) and leveling solo, duo, etc. With FFXIV it's not like that at all. I can get a party..level..whoo, big deal. Anyone else feel the same way?
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#2 Jul 03 2011 at 6:33 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm... That's a tough one to answer but I'll give it a try.

What's my motive to get to level 50? Why should I bother? In FFXI you had progession. 18 you got subjob, 20 chocobo/jeuno, 30 advance jobs. You also got your to progess in story as well as character development. FFXIV.... well FFXIV really doesn't have and progession, at least in the fashion FFXI did.
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#3 Jul 03 2011 at 7:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Please see thread: "What do you miss from FFXI?" Located just below this one.

The fact that we have a second one of these means that SE had better have some great updates in store...
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#4 Jul 03 2011 at 8:45 PM Rating: Default
As dyvidd said its about the small milestones that broke up the grind at every point in my FFXI career I had something to aim for.

Subjob
Airship License
New Job access
AF
Limit break
Area Access to Sky, Sea, Etc, etc
AFII
Endgame Gear (too much to list)

Plus the storyline gave you little extras also....

Maybe I was lucky to join the game on PS2 NA release so I always had things in the game already to achieve. I think part of the problem with FFXIV is that the current player base is blasting through the little content that exists and now feels that the game is devoid of features. Players that start FFXIV on ps3 release or come back to PC version around then will have a much more possitive experience... at least I hope so.
#5 Jul 04 2011 at 5:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Made a quick graph to show my feelings about this.

http://i.imgur.com/BbjM3.png
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#6 Jul 04 2011 at 5:58 AM Rating: Default
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Made a quick graph to show my feelings about this.

http://i.imgur.com/BbjM3.png


Your FFXI chart is bang on. The FFXIV one is as far away from fact as can be.

That being said back to op FFXI was based purely on grouping up and it was both it's strongest and weakest point. It offered nothing for solo/casual players until very late in it's life. FFXIV is being shaped by the idea to be both solo/casual and group friendly. At the moment Yoshi is attempting not to salvage the game but to make a new one from the data he was given. AS the plan at day one was to make XIV as solo/casual as possible making everything based on leves.
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#7 Jul 04 2011 at 7:43 AM Rating: Default
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Much less lag >_>
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#8 Jul 04 2011 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
Made a quick graph to show my feelings about this.
http://i.imgur.com/BbjM3.png
Awesome chart is awesome. For those who are like me and browse the forums at work and can't get to that site, I will use my premiumness to present it to everyone. I hope you do not mind, Blynk.

You're already at an excellent rating, but I'm rating you up anyway.



Edited, Jul 4th 2011 11:22am by Bleam
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Purchase and instal a bigger hard drive, at the moment my PS3 has 500GB memory which is plenty.
#9 Jul 04 2011 at 9:26 AM Rating: Decent
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It's tough to compare FFXI now to FFXIV now becausse FFXI has such a running start, but I can try to compare it to FFXI in 2002-2004.

-The ability to seek a party with a flag, or search for members (which they took away from us)
-A slower combat pace which allowed for a more organized flow of battle (IMO)
-Diverse weapon skill animations
-Storyline quests (city) weren't linked to leveling and required teamwork.
-Fame system which gave a reason for doing mindless quests in town.
-Sneak and invisible to get around aggroing mobs.
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#10 Jul 04 2011 at 10:05 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
The FFXIV one is as far away from fact as can be.


Yeah, I think you reversed the X and Y axes. Your chart seems to say that getting to Rank 50 takes no time, but offers the greatest reward.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#11 Jul 04 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
It's tough to compare FFXI now to FFXIV now becausse FFXI has such a running start, but I can try to compare it to FFXI in 2002-2004.

-The ability to seek a party with a flag, or search for members (which they took away from us)
-A slower combat pace which allowed for a more organized flow of battle (IMO)
-Diverse weapon skill animations
-Storyline quests (city) weren't linked to leveling and required teamwork.
-Fame system which gave a reason for doing mindless quests in town.
-Sneak and invisible to get around aggroing mobs.


i know what your trying to do, but you SHOULD be comparing ffxi now to ffxiv now. you shouldn't be comparing the amount of content, obviously, but you should be comparing the quality of both games. what you should be seeing is the knowledge they gained from making ffxi put into ffxiv but that is clearly not the case.

when making a game you have 2 roads to follow. if your making a new stand alone title trying something new to see if you can go somewhere with it is a good idea so your games don't become stale.

if your making a sequal to a game, it's best to keep most of the elements in tact while improving on those things AND adding new things that goes with it.

all in all the game so far was a pretty big failure. perhaps one of the worst in history, if not the worst (financially speaking). however, this could very well be a good thing for SE in the future because they have been taught a serious lesson in buisiness. hopefully this will never happen again, with any game they make, and that more care and thought is taken when creating every aspect of their games.

Edited, Jul 4th 2011 12:48pm by Keysofgaruda
#12 Jul 04 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Keysofgaruda wrote:

i know what your trying to do, but you SHOULD be comparing ffxi now to ffxiv now. you shouldn't be comparing the amount of content, obviously, but you should be comparing the quality of both games. what you should be seeing is the knowledge they gained from making ffxi put into ffxiv but that is clearly not the case.
Edited, Jul 4th 2011 12:48pm by Keysofgaruda


Please clarify how would you compare something that took 12 years to make over something younger then a year? Content aside FFXI after 12 months in JP(only) was no better than a steaming pile like XIV is now. XI nearly didn't even make it in to international markets. XI's big turn around was first expansion and just as many fixes as XIV now.

They are using what they learned from FFXI, even so it still takes time. AS SE is fixing the game go out and enjoy life.
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#13 Jul 04 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
The FFXIV one is as far away from fact as can be.


Yeah, I think you reversed the X and Y axes. Your chart seems to say that getting to Rank 50 takes no time, but offers the greatest reward.


I knew I'd mess up somewhere, I was making it on no sleep at 7AM. ~(;-;)~

I know the FFXIV part isn't entirely accurate, but I was trying less to measure actual milestones and more of my feelings of accomplishment. Nothing in FFXIV has stood out to make me think, '**** yea, i'm so good'.

I feel like the 'Achievement System' is an attempt to artificially inject that feeling into FFXIV. I hope that's just a nickname, and it isn't literally a system for achievements.

Edited, Jul 4th 2011 2:42pm by BlynkTheSneak
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#14 Jul 04 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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BlynkTheSneak wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
The FFXIV one is as far away from fact as can be.


Yeah, I think you reversed the X and Y axes. Your chart seems to say that getting to Rank 50 takes no time, but offers the greatest reward.


I knew I'd mess up somewhere, I was making it on no sleep at 7AM. ~(;-;)~


1.) Switch the "Time" and "Reward" axes on the second graph;
2.) Act like it never happened;
3.) Um... dance the night away, maybe?
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#15 Jul 05 2011 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Keysofgaruda wrote:

i know what your trying to do, but you SHOULD be comparing ffxi now to ffxiv now. you shouldn't be comparing the amount of content, obviously, but you should be comparing the quality of both games. what you should be seeing is the knowledge they gained from making ffxi put into ffxiv but that is clearly not the case.
Edited, Jul 4th 2011 12:48pm by Keysofgaruda


Please clarify how would you compare something that took 12 years to make over something younger then a year? Content aside FFXI after 12 months in JP(only) was no better than a steaming pile like XIV is now. XI nearly didn't even make it in to international markets. XI's big turn around was first expansion and just as many fixes as XIV now.

They are using what they learned from FFXI, even so it still takes time. AS SE is fixing the game go out and enjoy life.


because this isn't their first year it's their thirteenth year. there shouldn't need to be any huge overhauls of anything because they have those 12-13 years of MMO experience. that is why you shouldn't be comparing this game to the zero experience they had back then.

only now are they using what they learned. most of the future updates that is being planned sounds cool and is something i would come to expect if i was playing ffxi.
#16 Jul 05 2011 at 1:17 AM Rating: Good
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It doesn't matter if we're talking about XI from 2003 or 2011, either version is a vastly better experiance. XIV is all about "ease of play" - they should have been concentrating on "quality of play."

My best friend from XI finally played XIV for the first time this weekend.. I don't know if she'll ever log in again, and she's definitely not about to pay for it. She's a casual player, the kind you need if you're not going to have a hard core game.. And even with almost a year of "improvement" in the books, XIV is still turning new players off right out of the gates.
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#17 Jul 05 2011 at 6:13 AM Rating: Default
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Keysofgaruda wrote:

because this isn't their first year it's their thirteenth year. there shouldn't need to be any huge overhauls of anything because they have those 12-13 years of MMO experience. that is why you shouldn't be comparing this game to the zero experience they had back then.

only now are they using what they learned. most of the future updates that is being planned sounds cool and is something i would come to expect if i was playing ffxi.


It may be 13'th year, but still comparing one to the other on par is not possible... as it distils to one factor time. Especially when you consider that FFXI had a linear progression, while FFVIX was going in one direction, than took a sharp turn, and i see no reason why it wouldn't make more sharp turns to get to were it needs to be.
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#18 Jul 05 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Decent
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The two largest hurdles I've noticed for casual players in 14 is Confusing targeting mixed with the terrible lag.

I play with my girlfriend often and she regularly gets overwhelmed and flustered by the targeting system and the lag. It makes you feel less in control of your character, especially in parties.


I still think it's valid to compare 14 to early XI, because it's not a sequel, they had a new team work on 14 and create a game that tried to do EVERYTHING differently. They are seeing now how poor that decision was though.

If anything, this flop action created a better SE, one that has an unprecedented level of communication with the community, something that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the failure.
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#19 Jul 05 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
The two largest hurdles I've noticed for casual players in 14 is Confusing targeting mixed with the terrible lag.

I play with my girlfriend often and she regularly gets overwhelmed and flustered by the targeting system and the lag. It makes you feel less in control of your character, especially in parties.

I still think it's valid to compare 14 to early XI, because it's not a sequel, they had a new team work on 14 and create a game that tried to do EVERYTHING differently. They are seeing now how poor that decision was though.

If anything, this flop action created a better SE, one that has an unprecedented level of communication with the community, something that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the failure.


This.... except i lack a GF at the moment.
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#20 Jul 06 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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When it comes to gameplay, what FFXI has over FFXIV is a rigorous accomplishment structure.

It's not enough to level a job in a straight arrow to endgame. There is a lot of planning required. Even with the "speed leveling" that's going on these days, you'll still find yourself creating a roadmap in your head of what are the next things you need to accomplish. You need to raise your reputation, you need to scrape up some gil, you need to equip your character, you need to expand your storage space, you need to buy, farm or quest for scrolls, you need to work on appropriate sub-jobs and/or unlock advanced jobs, you need to organize Genkai parties if you're just starting a new character, you have to unlock transportation (rank 5, teleport crystals, Promyvions, OP supply quests, taking a boat to Whitegate, chocobo quest).

And even after you start unlocking some of these things, your list of possible accomplishments grows. How far do you level and equip your sub-jobs? Do you start participating in regional activities (campaign, assault, etc.)?

It's a game that builds momentum and offers a tremendous amount of choices and opportunities.

With FFXIV, once you start doing your first Guildleves and Behests and tagged any Aetheryte Crystal you'd care to visit (you don't even have to walk to them if you hitch a ride), you've pretty much accomplished all there is to worry about from rank 1 to 50.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 5:54pm by ForceOfMeh
#21 Jul 07 2011 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
When it comes to gameplay, what FFXI has over FFXIV is a rigorous accomplishment structure.

It's not enough to level a job in a straight arrow to endgame. There is a lot of planning required. Even with the "speed leveling" that's going on these days, you'll still find yourself creating a roadmap in your head of what are the next things you need to accomplish. You need to raise your reputation, you need to scrape up some gil, you need to equip your character, you need to expand your storage space, you need to buy, farm or quest for scrolls, you need to work on appropriate sub-jobs and/or unlock advanced jobs, you need to organize Genkai parties if you're just starting a new character, you have to unlock transportation (rank 5, teleport crystals, Promyvions, OP supply quests, taking a boat to Whitegate, chocobo quest).

And even after you start unlocking some of these things, your list of possible accomplishments grows. How far do you level and equip your sub-jobs? Do you start participating in regional activities (campaign, assault, etc.)?

It's a game that builds momentum and offers a tremendous amount of choices and opportunities.

With FFXIV, once you start doing your first Guildleves and Behests and tagged any Aetheryte Crystal you'd care to visit (you don't even have to walk to them if you hitch a ride), you've pretty much accomplished all there is to worry about from rank 1 to 50.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 5:54pm by ForceOfMeh


i don't think anyone could have said it better.

if i could rate you up more than once good sir, i would.
#22 Jul 07 2011 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
Honestly, FFXIV is the only MMO on the market that I could get my wife to be interested in, and she is the perfect example of a Sims/Farmville/Cell Phone game casual gamer. The graphics are good, you can play for 30 minutes and make some small progress, the crafting mini-game is more engaging than anything else on the market(which is sad, but true), and it's not necessary to ever group up if you so choose. She's nearly brain dead when it comes to figuring out new games but right now you can solo anything by tabbing to your target and hitting 1 (maybe 2 and 3 if you're feeling uber 1337).

This game WAS designed for the super casual, and they would have loved it, but the super casual gamer has no idea it exists. I work in a video game department, and unless there are MASSIVE amounts of TV commercials, those casual gamers never hear about titles. The real market for this title is the hardcore Final Fantasy crowd, because almost every complaint comes from lack of difficult challenges, lack of end game content, or meaningless job roles/party play...which are definitely not things a casual gamer would call a deal breaker. These next 3 months will begin to introduce the "hardcore" elements to the game, which is what we currently miss. I can't wait.

EDIT:

PS. If you play an MMO at least 4-5 days a week, you might think you're casual, but 90% of the world would call you hardcore.

Edited, Jul 8th 2011 12:45am by Yabusame
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#23 Jul 08 2011 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Yabusame wrote:
If you play an MMO at least 4-5 days a week, you might think you're casual, but 90% of the world would call you hardcore.


But if I never log off, it only counts as one, extended play session in between server downtime. Seems pretty casual to me, only logging on once every couple months! d(^_~)
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#24 Jul 08 2011 at 7:28 PM Rating: Default
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14 will be fine in the long run - just going through some severe growing pains.
#25 Jul 08 2011 at 11:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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FFXI had a world that was harsh, but with the promise of something new and amazing over each hill.

FFXIV has gentle hills, with the promise that on the other side of that hill will be another hill that looks just like that one.


Edited, Jul 9th 2011 1:40am by KarlHungis
#26 Jul 10 2011 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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If FF XIV were a food it would be the meals that Gordon Ramsey gets served at the beginning of every episode of Kitchen Nightmares.
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#27 Jul 10 2011 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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garethrogue wrote:
If FF XIV were a food it would be the meals that Gordon Ramsey gets served at the beginning of every episode of Kitchen Nightmares.


Given that I logged in to the released version when it came out, saw it was exactly the same as the broken Beta build we'd just left behind, I certainly looked at it and said "What the f**k is this?".
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#28 Jul 10 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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ShockTopMagic wrote:
Much less lag >_>

I played FFXI on PS2 and I play FFXIV on PC, this really isn't necessarily true. Camp Fafnir much? But on to OP's question.

There's a lot of differences, FFXIV is not simply FFXI with better graphics. Probably the one thing that most people would notice on a daily, every-fight basis is lack of Skillchaining and Magic Bursts. SCs and MBs were something pretty much everyone learned how to do before level 20, it's one of those memorable Dunes experiences, where all the new people in your party is learning how partying actually worked. Now, I know FFXIV has Battle Regimen, but I haven't really heard a lot of people talking about using them. I'm sure there are some people that do, particularly among people that that play together regularly, but they aren't used to the extent of SCs and MBs.

Just my opinion.




#29 Jul 10 2011 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
With FFXIV, once you start doing your first Guildleves and Behests and tagged any Aetheryte Crystal you'd care to visit (you don't even have to walk to them if you hitch a ride), you've pretty much accomplished all there is to worry about from rank 1 to 50.


Keep in mind FFXI was released with a level 50 cap (IIRC), just not outside JP. Rise/Zilart increased the cap to 75. There was nothing stopping you from grinding XP all day to level 50, just as there isn't now. You can bet that if FFXIV continues to exist, there will be increases to the level cap, and new roadblocks put in place (a la 50-55-60-65-70 level cap quests).
#30 Jul 10 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Urste wrote:
ShockTopMagic wrote:
Much less lag >_>
I played FFXI on PS2 and I play FFXIV on PC, this really isn't necessarily true. Camp Fafnir much?
You're comparing regular gameplay in FFXIV to the most punishing conditions in FFXI on the sh*t-tier of hardware (the PS2). If you could camp Fafnir in FFXIV with the crowds that you used to be able to attract on day 6 or 7 without a Nidhogg it'd be a nightmare. He would've aggroed and killed multiple people before you'd even know he was there.



Edited, Jul 10th 2011 7:50pm by bsphil
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