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Update on Intances by rep/YoshiFollow

#1 Jul 06 2011 at 2:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Greetings, everyone. There have been a lot of discussion revolving around the upcoming instanced raids and as such, a lot of comments and questions popping up. Yoshida made a very lengthy reply to the topic recently, so I'd like to share it with all of you.


Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida
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I believe it is as you all have pointed out. You all have the right to choose.
Honestly, I think the amount of instanced dungeons and instanced raids are severely lacking in number. It's pretty much the same as taking the baton and running with it from an abnormal state of there being no quests at all. I'm not saying that I want you all to sympathize.

I believe it was necessary to have at least 4 instanced dungeons for leveling and about 3 raid dungeons for rank 50 players prepared at the time of launch. I think that in that case it would be natural that there would have been a choice of content depending on the player's needs, but currently that choice has not been made available to you all. However, as long as operation continues, taking the first steps toward change is necessary. While ideally we will be prepping the necessary numbers, compiling, and then implementing them, just as I have mentioned numerous times, the fact that it will take so long really sucks. I really want to hurry up and break through this state of nothing.

We will continue to implement raids and instanced dungeons from now on, so this is by no means the end. Raid dungeons are not the entire focus when it comes to upcoming content; I think it is just an all-inclusive term for something that should be present in numbers, so please don't think of the first installment of raid dungeons coming in 1.18 as simply a replacement for guildleves.

The reason why there are various limitations is due to the problems with instance occupation and content occupation. I have every intention of wanting to avoid making people wait in line for instances that are occupied by parties that do not meet the number of members or rank to be able to clear a dungeon.

Try playing it and if there are a lot of people saying they want to try the battles with smaller groups of people, it won't be too hard to ease up on dungeon-related requirements. I will be keeping an eye on everyone's comments and if necessary I will implement a mini-patch to ease up on the restrictions.
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#2 Jul 06 2011 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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The reason why there are various limitations is due to the problems with instance occupation and content occupation. I have every intention of wanting to avoid making people wait in line for instances that are occupied by parties that do not meet the number of members or rank to be able to clear a dungeon.


Oh no. This can't be happening. Don't tell me there will be only one party that gets to go into a dungeon at a time.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 12:01pm by RedGalka
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#3 Jul 06 2011 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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What's this about having to wait in line for an Instance because someone else is in it? :o
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#4 Jul 06 2011 at 4:17 AM Rating: Default
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Oh no please not what I think this means!
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#5 Jul 06 2011 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Just when I thought it couldn't possibly get any ******* worse... the mythical, magical patch of golden goodness clears up any confusion I may have had. Thanks for clearing that up for me Yoshi. I almost couldn't tell it was you hiding behind that epic trollface.
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#6 Jul 06 2011 at 5:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Oh no. This can't be happening. Don't tell me there will be only one party that gets to go into a dungeon at a time.


YESSS!!! The Dynamis wait is back!
We all loved that one, didn't we!!!?
...didn't we?
#7 Jul 06 2011 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
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Guys, it says that he has every intention to avoid the "Dynamis" system from happening, of couse this doesnt mean it wont but that is what he's looking into.

As such we can hope/expect that this won't be the case. No point starting to pull your hair because of somthing we don't know for sure.
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#8 Jul 06 2011 at 5:23 AM Rating: Good
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"As long as operation continues..."? Maybe it was an innocent comment, but that sounds ominous.

That paragraph makes him seem pretty flustered.. Stating how we've been lacking necessary content all this time, and how "...the fact that it will take so long really sucks." "I really want to hurry up and break through this state of nothing."

Perhaps SE is finally twisting some arms in regards to this game.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 7:47am by Coyohma
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#9 Jul 06 2011 at 5:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
Guys, it says that he has every intention to avoid the "Dynamis" system from happening, of couse this doesnt mean it wont but that is what he's looking into.

Is that really what you read from this? It honestly sounds like a variation of the 'PS3 limitation' bs to me...

Yoshi wrote:
The reason why there are various limitations is due to the problems with instance occupation and content occupation.


Sounds like one of a few possible things. Both of them remind me of dynamis and I'd be willing to put up a big wager that it is one (or maybe both) of the two following possibilities:

1) Players will only be able to enter one group at a time. You will have to wait until the group inside has finished their objectives to enter. This addresses the 'occupation limitations' part of the statement.

2) There will be a lockout period that is fairly steep. Due to the time and effort spent on auto-attack and other various additions and tweaks, SE hasn't had sufficient time to put a lot of content into these instances. It is highly likely that there will be a lockout period of 3-4 days. This pretty much covers 'content limitations'.

I guess you can try and remain hopeful about the situation, but any it plays out... doesn't sound all that appealing.





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#10 Jul 06 2011 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I see the obvious concern here that people are mentioning but what he says gives me a little hope that at least they are trying to not do instances in the same way they are always done. As I have said all along, I hope they do them in a way that makes sense, instances never made sense to me at all in other games. fingers still crossed.

Thats about as optimistic a slant as I can offer on that xD
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#11 Jul 06 2011 at 6:30 AM Rating: Good
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@ FilthMcNasty

To me this is just keeping up with the usual trend since release...

First it was that there was no comunication from SE.
Then it was that the comunication was scant.
Then it was that the information just wasnt exact enough
Now it's that the information is just not what we want to hear

Yoshi is saying that he will try to prevent that the dungeon's restrictions happen, at the moemnt I would eait and see how exactly is will be implemented before I start criticizing but maybe thats just me.
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#12 Jul 06 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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Well, here's hoping occupation limitations means like 5-10 groups, not one. If it seriously is just one group at a time, then it isn't instanced. That could be the nail in the coffin for me...(I've kept my conjurer at 33ish just to do the R30 dungeon). Also, I really hope they detail the companies soon, its like they abandoned that in favor of battle reforms and dungeons.
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#13 Jul 06 2011 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
Yoshi is saying that he will try to prevent that the dungeon's restrictions happen.


Here is my translation given their circumstances:

"As much as I would like to turn the players of XIV loose on the raids, there just isn't enough content in these raids to allow that. We are going to gate the content with some combination of time/entry/content limit."

There will be restrictions. It's pretty clearly stated. He doesn't want to restrict players, but the fact is that there really isn't any choice. At this point it is just a matter of how.

He knows **** well that they don't have enough content without a gate. People would play through it for a week or two and then quit until the next 'miracle patch' is released.

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#14 Jul 06 2011 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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Good lord.. this makes me sad. Sounds like a broken man to me :( Nevertheless I'll be happy as long as the game continues to evolve and doesn't get scrapped.
#15 Jul 06 2011 at 7:39 AM Rating: Decent
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The OP has no mention about time restriction ond dungeons and we all read before on other threads that this was to be implemented.

Quote:
I have every intention of wanting to avoid making people wait in line for instances that are occupied by parties that do not meet the number of members or rank to be able to clear a dungeon.


Personally I think that would just taking the part of Devil's Advocate, as such I'll take the White Knight part...

In the statement above the only restriction mentioned is to whether someone else is already using the instance and that he is attempting so that this does not prevent other people from entering the instance.
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#16 Jul 06 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
The OP has no mention about time restriction ond dungeons and we all read before on other threads that this was to be implemented.

Quote:
I have every intention of wanting to avoid making people wait in line for instances that are occupied by parties that do not meet the number of members or rank to be able to clear a dungeon.


Personally I think that would just taking the part of Devil's Advocate, as such I'll take the White Knight part...

In the statement above the only restriction mentioned is to whether someone else is already using the instance and that he is attempting so that this does not prevent other people from entering the instance.


I'm assuming its a translation thing, but I find it hilarious how some of their statements come across, "I have every intention of wanting to ..." is possibly the least definite thing I've ever heard.

I dunno, I didn't really read this as something negative. It sounds like hes trying to say that if there is a limit to the amount of simultanious copies of an instances there are (sounds like there will be), they'll try and do something that would prevent it from being filled with parties who shouldn't be there, either too high, too low, or not a full group. Even wow's instances max out (though usually only when they are very new), so I'm hoping this is something that will occur rarely, and not be along the lines of BCNM or dynamis waits.
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#17 Jul 06 2011 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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Also, I really hope they detail the companies soon.....


Hahahahaha, I lol'd. You still think companies were a real thing don't you? I mean, you actually believed it was a well thought out concept with actual substantive content and game design elements in place.

What has SE done to inspire such blind devotion? They give us a vague little blurb about companies, throw in a couple of manufactured screen shots, and tell us to wait patiently. There are no "details" about companies being released because their are no "details" to divulge; the idea is on the cutting room floor with so many other bad ideas and lost stockholder money.

I guess you missed the memo where SE admitted that companies were nothing more than a half baked poorly thought out notion that will never see the light of day. I just can't believe people are still really chasing that carrot. It's been months bra, let it go.
#18 Jul 06 2011 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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Even in WoW...if enough people are instancing, you can't enter. Theres not an unlimited number of instances. Given that there will be a rush of players to them after there out, thats why hes concerned.
#19 Jul 06 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Decent
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zuogehaomeng wrote:
Even in WoW...if enough people are instancing, you can't enter. Theres not an unlimited number of instances. Given that there will be a rush of players to them after there out, thats why hes concerned.


I have never seen that happen in WoW. Nor saying that it's not possible . But the limit would be really high over there. Instancing isn't really dependant on servers too there either. You can be running a dungeon with players from other servers.
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#20 Jul 06 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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I take this to mean it will be similar to Nyzul Isle Assault in FFXI or Moblin Maze Mongers.

If too many parties were already in the instance, you would have ot wait in line and fight to get in. They are probably trying to avoid this, or at least keep the threshold high, and potentially kicking people out who do not meet certain criteria when it's congested.
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#21 Jul 06 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Excellent
Coyohma wrote:
"As long as operation continues..."? Maybe it was an innocent comment, but that sounds ominous.


Agreed. I'm not sure why he would even hint at this. Possible translation error?
#22 Jul 06 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hugus wrote:
The OP has no mention about time restriction ond dungeons and we all read before on other threads that this was to be implemented.


I'm not trying to break your optimism, but if they don't restrict the content then people will quit again two weeks after the patch until 1.19 comes out.

Things you can expect in the upcoming raids: (examples)

Player limits - Only x amount of groups are allowed to enter an instance at a time.
Time limits - You get booted after x amount of time.
Lockouts - You get to enter a dungeon once every xx hours.
Content limits - You can only complete one objective per entry.
Content locks - You must complete the first objective to unlock the next objective... so on.

These are pretty standard restrictions related to occupation and content. You will see at least two forms of the above restrictions for raids. Mark my words. If I'm wrong, I'll come back here and eat them.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 11:43am by FilthMcNasty
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#23 Jul 06 2011 at 9:52 AM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:
I have never seen that happen in WoW. Nor saying that it's not possible.

It's actually pretty common on patch days when they add new instances, actually (Troll instances patch was really bad at first). I've seen it plenty, but it's really a few days every three month, then everything goes back to normal.

The worst case was when they added achievements during Lich King, and people went back to all the old instances, solo, to get the kills. That was terrible for a week or so.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 11:52am by Docent42
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#24 Jul 06 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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However, as long as operation continues, taking the first steps toward change is necessary.


First off this is a literal translation and the Japanese is more along the lines of "While we continue working on this, these first few steps are necessary for future changes." There is no sense of danger in his post.

And his post also states they are initially restricting the group sizes to 4 and 8 so that they can limit how many ppl enter the instance at a given time. It feels like they are artificially limiting the instances created at a given time so that they dont' run into problems with hardware. And they might lower the restrictions to allow more groups in if they can handle it server wise. I dont' think its really just a 1 group at a time per instance lock.
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#25 Jul 06 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hugus wrote:
The OP has no mention about time restriction ond dungeons and we all read before on other threads that this was to be implemented.


I'm not trying to break your optimism, but if they don't restrict the content then people will quit again two weeks after the patch until 1.19 comes out.

Things you can expect in the upcoming raids: (examples)

Player limits - Only x amount of groups are allowed to enter an instance at a time.
Time limits - You get booted after x amount of time.
Lockouts - You get to enter a dungeon once every xx hours.
Content limits - You can only complete one objective per entry.
Content locks - You must complete the first objective to unlock the next objective... so on.

These are pretty standard restrictions related to occupation and content. You will see at least two forms of the above restrictions for raids. Mark my words. If I'm wrong, I'll come back here and eat them.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 11:43am by FilthMcNasty


Well these are all... obvious. Who doesn't expect some sort of limiting factor on in-game content? This is all par for the course and I'm sad that it seems you have to mention this to temper expectations..
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#26TwiddleDee, Posted: Jul 06 2011 at 10:35 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Some how this is starting to leave a bad taste behind. Thought i would say it's more related to the communication being too "muddy" to say the least. I still strongly believe that SE needs to focus on open world content, UI, mechanics.
#27 Jul 06 2011 at 11:56 AM Rating: Good
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Yoshida? wrote:
Try playing it and if there are a lot of people saying they want to try the battles with smaller groups of people, it won't be too hard to ease up on dungeon-related requirements....if necessary I will implement a mini-patch to ease up on the restrictions.


Well at least I know not to look forward to a challenge.
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#28 Jul 06 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, it won't be like Dynamis. I don't see why you guys would think that. FFXI didn't have the technical abilities to make instances. (And even then, they've since changed Dynamis due to that unpopular rule. Anyone can enter now, apparently) XIV, however, does have instancing. But there is still a limit to instancing, and if 25,000 separate instances are made (for example, I don't know how XIV's playerbase looks, but just bare with me on this) for solo adventurers, that could put a load on the server. So there is a need for a cap on instances being created.

It's also a good way to finally get people to talk to one another. (For the first time ever.)

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 11:22am by UltKnightGrover
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#29 Jul 06 2011 at 12:30 PM Rating: Excellent
aj7418 wrote:
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However, as long as operation continues, taking the first steps toward change is necessary.


First off this is a literal translation and the Japanese is more along the lines of "While we continue working on this, these first few steps are necessary for future changes." There is no sense of danger in his post.

And his post also states they are initially restricting the group sizes to 4 and 8 so that they can limit how many ppl enter the instance at a given time. It feels like they are artificially limiting the instances created at a given time so that they dont' run into problems with hardware. And they might lower the restrictions to allow more groups in if they can handle it server wise. I dont' think its really just a 1 group at a time per instance lock.


Thank you for the clarification. I think you are correct about the possible hardware limitations, although that could and should be overcome.

I am in the crowd hoping these dungeons function similar to Nyzul Tower. I think the token system was excellent, allowing you to not play for a few days and then sit down for a whole night of runs.
#30 Jul 06 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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This sounds like continued Crystal Tools funsies to me. People didn't like being limited to 8 leves every 4--- I mean, 36 hours and they won't like having arbitrary limits on how often they can run an instance.

Sorry, the cynic/pragmatist in me says this is looking worse and worse. You can even hear it in Yoshi P's tone.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 2:38pm by hexaemeron
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#31 Jul 06 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Where is this post being taken from? The official forums? I don't see it. Until I read it on the official forums or as an official communication from the fansite I have trouble buying this.
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#32 Jul 06 2011 at 8:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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kainsilv wrote:
Where is this post being taken from? The official forums? I don't see it. Until I read it on the official forums or as an official communication from the fansite I have trouble buying this.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/14062-Instanced-Raids-Unveiled!?p=215654#post215654
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#33 Jul 06 2011 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
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The number of instances shouldn't have anything to do with the crystal tools, but more to do with what the servers can handle. Its just a copy of a dungeon that no one will see client side unless they are inside it. aj7418 is right. They'll upgrade their servers if the demand is that great~ but looking at the current shape of the game, I don't think its first on their list.
#34 Jul 06 2011 at 11:10 PM Rating: Good
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zuogehaomeng wrote:
The number of instances shouldn't have anything to do with the crystal tools, but more to do with what the servers can handle. Its just a copy of a dungeon that no one will see client side unless they are inside it. aj7418 is right. They'll upgrade their servers if the demand is that great~ but looking at the current shape of the game, I don't think its first on their list.

While effectively this is close enough to be true, it is not technically. Various engines are, in fact, better suited for multi-player and MMO development due to the various ways to implement the various types of protocol for communicating between computers. It is entirely possible (and in fact very likely) that Crystal Tools has, somewhere in it, built in systems that force the developers' collective hands on choices such as how to handle heavy traffic areas such as instances. In fact, given that Crystal Tools was never built to design multi-player games, I would not be surprised at all if the engine was poorly optimized for the purpose.

That being said, in all likelihood, there are ways to work around any major issues caused by design choices in the Crystal Tools engine. It's not true, though, to say that the engine has no barring on how instances can and cannot be implemented.
#35 Jul 06 2011 at 11:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think it sounds pretty good for what it is. Personaly I would have been happier without instanced dungeons at all but I do understand that fitting in a new "raid zone" would have taken ALOT longer.
I hope the inside of the wrecked air battle ship is either one of them or is introduced soon.
#36 Jul 07 2011 at 1:10 AM Rating: Good
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sigh.
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#37 Jul 07 2011 at 2:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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#38 Jul 07 2011 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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zuogehaomeng wrote:
Even in WoW...if enough people are instancing, you can't enter. Theres not an unlimited number of instances. Given that there will be a rush of players to them after there out, thats why hes concerned.


RedGalka wrote:
zuogehaomeng wrote:
Even in WoW...if enough people are instancing, you can't enter. Theres not an unlimited number of instances. Given that there will be a rush of players to them after there out, thats why hes concerned.


I have never seen that happen in WoW. Nor saying that it's not possible . But the limit would be really high over there. Instancing isn't really dependant on servers too there either. You can be running a dungeon with players from other servers.


Docent42 wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
I have never seen that happen in WoW. Nor saying that it's not possible.

It's actually pretty common on patch days when they add new instances, actually (Troll instances patch was really bad at first). I've seen it plenty, but it's really a few days every three month, then everything goes back to normal.

The worst case was when they added achievements during Lich King, and people went back to all the old instances, solo, to get the kills. That was terrible for a week or so.

Edited, Jul 6th 2011 11:52am by Docent42


This. I remember after Blizzard first added the dungeon finder it was impossible to even enter dungeons on foot because there were so many people already taking up all of the spots on their designated servers.

People were worried that they'd have to wait for another group to exit an instance before you can enter but the fact that these dungeons are instanced, by definition, contradicts that. Homeboy was probably just commenting on the fact that their server can only handle x number of instances running at any given moment. So, really, the only thing that people may have to worry about is the server reaching that cap and then you'd have to wait.

The real foreseeable problem in the future is that instanced content could become the hands-down best XP offered at any given level. Naturally, this is going to create the same problem FFXI had with competing camps. The biggest difference is that instead of one group having the best location, this time around you'll flat-out be turned away from even entering. From what I understand there will be time limits for each of these new dungeons, which will alleviate some of the problems, I'd assume that daily lockouts could end up becoming a reality before too long.
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#39 Jul 07 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Default
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I'm not sure if the WoW vs. FFXIV comparisons are apt here--the FFXI veterans on the thread seem to know what to expect, which will be substantially more waiting than the occasional dungeon queues in WoW bring. Of course, AFAIK there are a lot fewer players here in FFXIV, so perhaps those concerns aren't warranted--for now.

Really, if FFXIV servers can't handle the modest population's instance demands, that's incredibly sad--or SE is just being (understandably) incredibly cheap in how much server capacity is allots to this money pit.
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#40 Jul 07 2011 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
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yfaithfully wrote:
I'm not sure if the WoW vs. FFXIV comparisons are apt here--the FFXI veterans on the thread seem to know what to expect, which will be substantially more waiting than the occasional dungeon queues in WoW bring. Of course, AFAIK there are a lot fewer players here in FFXIV, so perhaps those concerns aren't warranted--for now.

Really, if FFXIV servers can't handle the modest population's instance demands, that's incredibly sad--or SE is just being (understandably) incredibly cheap in how much server capacity is allots to this money pit.


Well we don't really know how big an issue this is going to be, so its all just speculation now. FFXI was what, 1 group per instance at a time? I really only know about BCNMs and some boss fights like shadowlord but I think thats how it went. WoW feels more like hundreds to thousands per battlegroup (5 servers with linked instances I think?) at a time, with possibly hundreds of any particular instance being possible at any one time. Obviously its its more the FFXI its going to suck, if its more like wow's it'll be just fine. So we don't know what its going to be like, but I'm sure like most people, I'm worried because they felt the need to mention it.
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#41 Jul 07 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Decent
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TurboTom is right on the dot. I think this is exactly what Yoshi is saying. Who cares about what FFXI was like, did Yoshi develop XI? From my understanding not. And he has also said hes an avid MMORPG player. I expect he was speaking in contact of most MMORPGs not FF11. Dynamis was a one instance at a time ordeal and Dynamis. And the way Yoshi has talked about dungeons has been nothing in the same context as dynamis and if it turns out to be hes made a terrible PR mistake. Especially to everyone whose been reading this on the outside.
#42 Jul 07 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default
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zuogehaomeng wrote:
And he has also said hes an avid MMORPG player.


He might have said that, but a lot of times when I read his stuff I think "This is NOT coming from a decent mmorpg player."
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#43 Jul 07 2011 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:
I'm not sure if the WoW vs. FFXIV comparisons are apt here--the FFXI veterans on the thread seem to know what to expect, which will be substantially more waiting than the occasional dungeon queues in WoW bring. Of course, AFAIK there are a lot fewer players here in FFXIV, so perhaps those concerns aren't warranted--for now.

Really, if FFXIV servers can't handle the modest population's instance demands, that's incredibly sad--or SE is just being (understandably) incredibly cheap in how much server capacity is allots to this money pit.


Well we don't really know how big an issue this is going to be, so its all just speculation now. FFXI was what, 1 group per instance at a time? I really only know about BCNMs and some boss fights like shadowlord but I think thats how it went. WoW feels more like hundreds to thousands per battlegroup (5 servers with linked instances I think?) at a time, with possibly hundreds of any particular instance being possible at any one time. Obviously its its more the FFXI its going to suck, if its more like wow's it'll be just fine. So we don't know what its going to be like, but I'm sure like most people, I'm worried because they felt the need to mention it.


Incorrect. Dynamis was the ONLY instance that *was* (now it's no longer instanced, or instanced but anyone can join during it) limited to 1 group at a time.

Assault
Nyzul
Battlefields (including BCNM/KSNM/ANM/etc or mission fights)
Moblin Maze Mongers

All of these events allowed many groups at once.

Other instances-like events were:

Abyssea NMs or any Force Pop nms spawned with items
Field of Valor NMs
Fay Weapon NMs
VNM
ANNM(?) The Nms spawned with Notes from the past areas.

These were instanced fights in a sense that are claimed by the party and required people to either fight for a slot or be civil and form a line.

But Dynamis was such an early endgame event that I seriously find it ridiculous for anyone to really assume that is what the Devs mean when they talk about this. For pete's sake, FFXI has a 56k Bandwith cap and STILL does instances, you really think they won't be able to run multiple instances in 14?

I know this all comes from jadedness here, but still.. have a little optimism folks.
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#44 Jul 07 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
KujaKoF wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:
I'm not sure if the WoW vs. FFXIV comparisons are apt here--the FFXI veterans on the thread seem to know what to expect, which will be substantially more waiting than the occasional dungeon queues in WoW bring. Of course, AFAIK there are a lot fewer players here in FFXIV, so perhaps those concerns aren't warranted--for now.

Really, if FFXIV servers can't handle the modest population's instance demands, that's incredibly sad--or SE is just being (understandably) incredibly cheap in how much server capacity is allots to this money pit.


Well we don't really know how big an issue this is going to be, so its all just speculation now. FFXI was what, 1 group per instance at a time? I really only know about BCNMs and some boss fights like shadowlord but I think thats how it went. WoW feels more like hundreds to thousands per battlegroup (5 servers with linked instances I think?) at a time, with possibly hundreds of any particular instance being possible at any one time. Obviously its its more the FFXI its going to suck, if its more like wow's it'll be just fine. So we don't know what its going to be like, but I'm sure like most people, I'm worried because they felt the need to mention it.


Incorrect. Dynamis was the ONLY instance that *was* (now it's no longer instanced, or instanced but anyone can join during it) limited to 1 group at a time.

Assault
Nyzul
Battlefields (including BCNM/KSNM/ANM/etc or mission fights)
Moblin Maze Mongers

All of these events allowed many groups at once.

Other instances-like events were:

Abyssea NMs or any Force Pop nms spawned with items
Field of Valor NMs
Fay Weapon NMs
VNM
ANNM(?) The Nms spawned with Notes from the past areas.

These were instanced fights in a sense that are claimed by the party and required people to either fight for a slot or be civil and form a line.

But Dynamis was such an early endgame event that I seriously find it ridiculous for anyone to really assume that is what the Devs mean when they talk about this. For pete's sake, FFXI has a 56k Bandwith cap and STILL does instances, you really think they won't be able to run multiple instances in 14?

I know this all comes from jadedness here, but still.. have a little optimism folks.



I'm sorry, but nothing you said is correct. All of those events you mentioned are not instanced. FFXI has no instances at all. XIV can make multiple copies of a zone at a whim. (This is shown when you go into interactive cut-scenes, boss fights, and those escort quests.) FFXI literally has copies of the same battle field side-to-side distanced equally apart out of shout range. That's not instancing. It's a clever way around it, but it's still not instancing.

In the case of Dynamis, it was literally just one zone that could be reserved ahead of time with an item. Same with the PvP zones that FFXI had. That's not instancing, either.

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 11:08am by UltKnightGrover
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#45 Jul 07 2011 at 12:19 PM Rating: Decent
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#46 Jul 07 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:

I'm sorry, but nothing you said is correct. All of those events you mentioned are not instanced. FFXI has no instances at all. XIV can make multiple copies of a zone at a whim. (This is shown when you go into interactive cut-scenes, boss fights, and those escort quests.) FFXI literally has copies of the same battle field side-to-side distanced equally apart out of shout range. That's not instancing. It's a clever way around it, but it's still not instancing.

In the case of Dynamis, it was literally just one zone that could be reserved ahead of time with an item. Same with the PvP zones that FFXI had. That's not instancing, either.

Edited, Jul 7th 2011 11:08am by UltKnightGrover


It doesn't matter that this wasn't considered "true instancing" in the technical, behind the scenes, aspect.

It's, for all intents, instanced content. An instance is a special area that generates a new copy of the location for each group, or for certain amount of players, that enters the area.

Just because a game creates this EXACT effect differently, doesn't make the effect, in this case Instancing, different.

So what would you call this effect that allows multiple groups to enjoy the same content in their own, seperate, closed off instance of the area? Is there a seperate name for it or would you still call it mother ****ing instancing?
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#47 Jul 07 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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The point is that it's an old & bad method.
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#48 Jul 07 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:

I'm sorry, but nothing you said is correct. All of those events you mentioned are not instanced. FFXI has no instances at all. XIV can make multiple copies of a zone at a whim. (This is shown when you go into interactive cut-scenes, boss fights, and those escort quests.) FFXI literally has copies of the same battle field side-to-side distanced equally apart out of shout range. That's not instancing. It's a clever way around it, but it's still not instancing.

In the case of Dynamis, it was literally just one zone that could be reserved ahead of time with an item. Same with the PvP zones that FFXI had. That's not instancing, either.
Edited, Jul 7th 2011 11:08am by UltKnightGrover


A technical question--isn't what you've described in FFXIV actually phasing? And is there a difference between phasing and instancing?

In FFXIV, most of the leves are phased, are they not? You're in the same zone as other players, but they can't claim your mobs or even see them until you fight them, right? Aren't they using the same technique for story cut scenes?

Maybe there is no technical difference between phasing and instances?
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#49 Jul 07 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
FFXI was what, 1 group per instance at a time?


No. "Instanced" means that a new copy of that zone is generated for each group that enters. The only content I can recall that was instanced was Assault (at least when I stopped playing.) Maybe BCNM? I don't remember, it's been a while.

But now that I think of it, maybe Dyanmis and Limbus areas were instanced in the sense that they reset once people left? Although, that's a ****-poor way of implementing a system, I guess in the time that it took me to write all of this, I've found a contradiction in my own argument. Either way, in this day and age, I'd never expect to see a system like this again, from a technological standpoint it makes no sense.
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#50 Jul 07 2011 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:
The point is that it's an old & bad method.


Yes, you're right. Regardless, our point is the same, they won't be doing this old bad method for simultaneous content, so we shouldn't assume it's going to be Dynamis 2.0
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#51 Jul 07 2011 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
The point is that it's an old & bad method.


Yes, you're right. Regardless, our point is the same, they won't be doing this old bad method for simultaneous content, so we shouldn't assume it's going to be Dynamis 2.0


I'd still expect to see lockouts. Probably not every 3 days like XI, but don't be surprised if there are daily lockouts.
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