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FFXIV Review: 10 Months after..Days before "Miracle patch"Follow

#52 Jul 20 2011 at 9:07 AM Rating: Default
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Torrence wrote:
It's kind of sad that every time I come back to these forums (and the breaks are getting longer and longer), nothing has changed. Literally, nothing has changed. The same arguments, the same people, the same topics, and the same golden patch theory.

I read the review, and it looked to me like some things were left out. It really wasn't as detailed as it could have been - for example, they say the guild system is lacking, but exactly what is it lacking? I know what is lacking, but readers who never played the game won't know what the reviewer meant, so it will be hard to gauge whether it's a personal beef or actual technical problems. It's a very topical overview of the state of the game - just skimming the surface and it's not really that informative.

However, I do agree that game sites can't just keep delaying their reviews because SE isn't on the ball. It's been long enough, and for some of us who poured money into it from the start expecting a radically different experience (Ps3's, new rigs, collectors editions), it's been too long.

Much too long.



In other words, if I get what you're saying, the game deserved another kick in the balls even on the eve of the supposed Golden Patch.

I'm okay with that.

Look at it this way, if these next few patches actually do put some life back into FFXIV, then the progress will seem all the more rapid from here on out when we use this article as a reference. It may, ironically, even help the game's image under its new director.


Thats actually pretty possible :O
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#53 Jul 20 2011 at 9:34 AM Rating: Good
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ForceOfMeh wrote:

In other words, if I get what you're saying, the game deserved another kick in the balls even on the eve of the supposed Golden Patch.

I'm okay with that.

Look at it this way, if these next few patches actually do put some life back into FFXIV, then the progress will seem all the more rapid from here on out when we use this article as a reference. It may, ironically, even help the game's image under its new director.


What I was saying is the reviewer is declaring it bad without really saying why he thinks it's that way or what specifics led him to that conclusion. It's bad form to just say "guilds are a mess" or "too many menus" as opposed to what's actually wrong with them so that folks can determine whether or not it's a problem for them.

It's a very generic review that doesn't read any differently than some of the ones from 10 months ago, and it makes me think the reviewer didn't really play the game past the first few levels. There was nothing in-depth or detailed; the whole thing was just a generic "this sucks". Every screen shot was taken in town, on a level 1 character. The reviewer didn't do enough to prove that he actually played the game beyond messing in a few menus.

I've never been a white knight for this game (as most on these forums know), but I do expect a higher level of professionalism from folks who are putting these reviews out there.

I guess we will see what happens tomorrow.
#54 Jul 20 2011 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
What I was saying is the reviewer is declaring it bad without really saying why he thinks it's that way or what specifics led him to that conclusion. It's bad form to just say "guilds are a mess" or "too many menus" as opposed to what's actually wrong with them so that folks can determine whether or not it's a problem for them.

I didn't think it was bad form. The reviewer could have tripled the size of the review if he wanted to add suggestions or go into detail about what was missing. When you compare the linkshell system to guilds you would find in Rift or WoW it is obvious how empty the system feels. Connectivity to social networks, chatting via smartphone, shared banks, guild funded repairs, achievements and perks... soon people in other games will be able to queue up for dungeons with their friends on other servers. SE went the complete opposite direction regarding the social aspect of this game.

As far as the menu mini-game goes, the example used is pretty much the theme of the review. Nearly everything you want to do in XIV takes far more steps to accomplish than it actually should. There was no organization to the thought process in development and it shows in the final product.

Press a button to go to active mode. Press a button to target the mob or several to cycle through multiple mobs. Press the directional pad to find your spell or ability. Press a button to toggle AoE on or off(for spells). Target the mob again. 5 steps, some of which require multiple actions, for one ability... Really? I know they're working on streamlining the processes, but this stuff shouldn't have even made it to testing. It is still a problem over a year later.


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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#55 Jul 21 2011 at 1:21 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Press a button to go to active mode. Press a button to target the mob or several to cycle through multiple mobs. Press the directional pad to find your spell or ability. Press a button to toggle AoE on or off(for spells). Target the mob again. 5 steps, some of which require multiple actions, for one ability... Really? I know they're working on streamlining the processes, but this stuff shouldn't have even made it to testing. It is still a problem over a year later.



Or you can stand in front of the mob, press tab to target it and then press a key to hit the mob with your ability, 2 presses ... Really?
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#56 Jul 21 2011 at 5:01 AM Rating: Default
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Hugus wrote:
Or you can stand in front of the mob, press tab to target it and then press a key to hit the mob with your ability, 2 presses ... Really?

Next time, please give it some thought before you post...

It's not always the mob. In the case of nearly all leves, there are several. It isn't always important, but sometimes you need to select a specific target to attack first. If you have ever done a leve you'd know that mobs are usually in groups of two or more and they are almost always grouped in close proximity. Many times there are more than one mob type and it makes sense to attack one of them first.

I'm sure you would agree even if you don't play one, but there is a distinct advantage to opening combat from a distance if you are a ranged or caster class. The mobs don't aggro you from range so you can buff and you have more time to cast before the mob reaches you and you start to take damage. It isn't always a good idea to wander up to a mob that is ready and willing to mash your face in. Actually, it's @#%^ing stupid.

I really hope you don't think that is the correct way to engage a mob. If so, you either need a lesson in basic strategy or you need to come out of your denial that XIV isn't cluttered with extra steps everywhere. So cluttered I actually forgot it can take more steps than that. How could I have forgotten target-locks..?


Edited, Jul 21st 2011 7:04am by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#57 Jul 21 2011 at 5:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Torrence wrote:
It's a very generic review that doesn't read any differently than some of the ones from 10 months ago, and it makes me think the reviewer didn't really play the game past the first few levels. There was nothing in-depth or detailed; the whole thing was just a generic "this sucks". Every screen shot was taken in town, on a level 1 character. The reviewer didn't do enough to prove that he actually played the game beyond messing in a few menus.


Hmm. Then I guess I completely misunderstood.

Be honest with me now; just how is the FFXIV experience any different with a few extra "rank ups" anyway? Sure, you might see a few extra regions of the game without necessarily risking death, but the premise is mostly the same: Guildleves and Behests. If it seems like the reviewer didn't get far in rank, it's probably because there's not a whole lot of variety between ranks. That's the game's fault, not the reviewer's.

If anything, delving further only tends to make reviewers less happy because the content and storyline both take a hit in quantity and quality.

As for not offering actual suggestions on how to fix the game, that's beyond the scope of what a review is supposed to do. They're not there to design the game for SE, they're informing potential customers if the game is enjoyable based on their experience of what makes a good game.
#58 Jul 21 2011 at 5:43 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
Hugus wrote:
Or you can stand in front of the mob, press tab to target it and then press a key to hit the mob with your ability, 2 presses ... Really?

Next time, please give it some thought before you post...

It's not always the mob. In the case of nearly all leves, there are several. It isn't always important, but sometimes you need to select a specific target to attack first. If you have ever done a leve you'd know that mobs are usually in groups of two or more and they are almost always grouped in close proximity. Many times there are more than one mob type and it makes sense to attack one of them first.

I'm sure you would agree even if you don't play one, but there is a distinct advantage to opening combat from a distance if you are a ranged or caster class. The mobs don't aggro you from range so you can buff and you have more time to cast before the mob reaches you and you start to take damage. It isn't always a good idea to wander up to a mob that is ready and willing to mash your face in. Actually, it's @#%^ing stupid.

I really hope you don't think that is the correct way to engage a mob. If so, you either need a lesson in basic strategy or you need to come out of your denial that XIV isn't cluttered with extra steps everywhere. So cluttered I actually forgot it can take more steps than that. How could I have forgotten target-locks..?


Edited, Jul 21st 2011 7:04am by FilthMcNasty



I gave as much though to my post as you appear to have to yours, you made your post on the assumption that your example was representative of all situations, I did the same on mine. All I tried to do was to present people who might actually be looking through these forums for information with a wider point of view on the one situation.

It might very well be that your experience with casater classes (I have none) gives you a different point of view on the actions required to engage a mob, myself I have only done MRD and GLA as fighting classes so my experience is different from yours. I never said that your experience was wrong, I mearly implied that is not needed 100% of the time and there are other situations which my approach will be more than adequate.

As a tank I usually tend to chose which mob to engage first and way before I get any close to it I have targeted the mob in question, even if the Tab key doesnt target the mob of your choice, this will only be a couple cursor keys away.
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#59 Jul 21 2011 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
I gave as much though to my post as you appear to have to yours, you made your post on the assumption that your example was representative of all situations, I did the same on mine.


No, I never made the assumption or even insinuated that it represented all situations. Re-read my post and note the emphasis...
Quote:
In the case of nearly all leves, there are several.

The majority of the time you will run into multiple mobs. Even if there is only one mob, it would be to your benefit to have your weapon ready and your intended target selected before it notices you are there and proceeds to pummel you to a pulp. Your scenario is irrelevant most of the time and is hardly a 'wider point of view'. In fact, there are very few times where your actions would even be viable, much less the best course of action.

SE has stated that battles are intended to be against multiple foes. The interface and battle system doesn't coincide with their statement.
Hugus wrote:
I usually tend to chose which mob to engage first and way before I get any close to it I have targeted the mob in question, even if the Tab key doesnt target the mob of your choice, this will only be a couple cursor keys away.

Unnecessary keystrokes are unnecessary. There are several issues related to interface and the way the battle system works that clutter up the process. The fact is that there are more steps needed to complete an action then there need to be. As a tank, you have to consider the abilities you might need to use on other players.

TL;DR
The difficulty in this game should come from being able to react to what is going on in an encounter, not from having to battle a poorly designed interface.

Edited, Jul 21st 2011 7:33pm by FilthMcNasty
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#60 Jul 22 2011 at 2:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Well the miracle patch has landed, guess this game is a 10 now? XD
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#61 Jul 22 2011 at 3:12 AM Rating: Good
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I like a lot of the changes made. The game is running with a lot less lag. Combat, movement, and UI are all running a lot smoother (not quite perfect, but nearing it). The auto-attack interface for melee jobs is far superior. The patch hasn't made the game any more 'fun' for me, but it's clear that the possibility for fun is there now.

I'm really looking forward to the next few patches. I can't wait for them to release jobs now.
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#62 Jul 22 2011 at 3:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Relevant review is still relevant. I honestly wish I were eating my words here, but that is not the case. Didn't expect bad game to get worse though.
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#63 Jul 22 2011 at 3:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Well the miracle patch has landed, guess this game is a 10 now? XD

Harrr harr harrr!
Well played, Sir!
#64 Jul 22 2011 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthyMcNasty wrote:
Considering the review is on time and the patch isn't, I think 10 months since release is more than fair.

6+ years of development, 16+ months of feedback and nearly 10 months to implement patches and fixes since this game went live... yet people still for some reason feel that XIV isn't hasn't had enough time to develop or been given a fair shake. That's pretty sad.


So this is the initial review... 10 months later, and the writer wants his 14.99 back. Am I correct? Cause it sounds like a pretty recent figure to me.

More interesting is the logic you display in the quote though.

Quote:
Considering the review is on time and the patch isn't, I think 10 months since release is more than fair.


The review is in time, the patch wasn't...cause they had 10 (or even 16...you like that number as well) months, you say. Was there some deadline SE should have been aware of? "We give you 10 months to patch things up, after that we will post another review"? No, the timing is completely random. Nothing was in time or late for that matter.

I would assume that a magazine wants to inform its readers and keep them up-to-date as good as possible. What we have now are potential buyers who are advised not to buy the game right when we are at the beginning of a relative small period of time in where gameplay will see some significant changes.

It's like calling someone poor because he was poor one year ago...even though you know that the person just got himself a job. You don't know what his income is, but what the ****.. he had all year to get one, right? So he's a deadbeat anyway.

Call it a fair shake.

And then this part:

Quote:
yet people still for some reason feel that XIV isn't hasn't had enough time to develop or been given a fair shake. That's pretty sad.


Now a few people, not a lot of people...no, people. Who? How many? Cause I am under the impression that most people agree with the thought that the game was in a poor state when it came out and that SE's reaction was sluggish to say the least, but that they disagree with the timing of the review mentioned in this thread.

You do see the difference between disagreeing with how a matter (the state of the game) is approached and defending one of the parties (SE) in the matter, right?


Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 6:13am by MrMissile
#65 Jul 22 2011 at 6:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Now serving...

MrMissile wrote:
So this is the initial review... 10 months later, and the writer wants his 14.99 back. Am I correct?

Yes, this is the first review by this website for FFXIV. Out of the kindness of their hearts and possibly some poor ******* who works for them who clings to the thought of a 'miracle patch', they delayed their review. What is your point?
MrMixup wrote:
The review is in time, the patch wasn't...cause they had 10 (or even 16...you like that number as well) months, you say.

Oh, ok. I see. The review is 10 months late or a week early depending on your viewpoint. If you already play XIV it's 10 months late. You already know the game sucks by now. If you've never played, the review was a week early and saved you from wasting your 14.99 on the so called miracle patch.

Please don't paraphrase me. Feel free to use direct quotes so you can remember what I'm talking about and use it in context. 10 months refers to how long ago the game was launched. 16 months ago(roughly) people including myself were testing alpha and leaving feedback on various issues. They knew about most of these problems then, but obviously ignored them. Issues that should have never made it beyond testing, issues that they just fixed yesterday and some that still remain.

MrMissedthepoint wrote:
I would assume that a magazine wants to inform its readers and keep them up-to-date as good as possible. What we have now are potential buyers who are advised not to buy the game right when we are at the beginning of a relative small period of time in where gameplay will see some significant changes.

Pretty much everyone knew the game sucked. Open beta was horrible and followed up by Tanaka begging reviewers for a month before they reviewed the game. If that isn't a tip off to steer clear, there is always this.

Scud wrote:
It's like calling someone poor because he was poor one year ago...even though you know that the person just got himself a job. You don't know what his income is, but what the ****.. he had all year to get one, right? So he's a deadbeat anyway.

Actually, no. The only thing that is poor is your analogy here. It's like feeling bad for someone because he had a job he probably enjoyed a year ago. Even though you know his title is producer, he basically got demoted. Relegated to cleaning up a mess left by people who cared even less than I do apparently.

MrMisled wrote:
You do see the difference between disagreeing with how a matter (the state of the game) is approached and defending one of the parties (SE) in the matter, right?

I can't tell the difference from a distance. From here, they both look like someone with no legs to stand on.

You either disagree with the review for being too harsh even though it is deserved, being late even though it gave SE plenty of time to pull their **** together and make the game worthy of review, or being too early because it came out a week before a major patch. The only thing major about the patch is the disappointment. When are you guys gonna learn not to build yourselves up only to be let down?

Trying to defend it is just good for a laugh. SE apologizes and won't even defend their own game, yet some poor FF fan feels the need to take a stand. We know they're working hard to fix the problems, but the problems are the result of years of slacking hard. Yoshi only gets sympathy because he inherited it.

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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#66 Jul 22 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty, changing MrMissile into MrMissingthepoint...you are funny. And mature.

And the part of your reply to that post I will not label as gibberish is that FFXIV has been bad since its release. But that point has been made before, by lots of people. And now it's you who is making this point again, 10 months later. Still stating the obvious.

Talk about a good laugh.

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