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5 minute lock out timer between dungeon runsFollow

#1 Jul 20 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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#2 Jul 20 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm happy. If dungeons are good for XP, then this might be the start of a different form of group XPing. Looking forward to it, personally.

I'm not sure what to think of all the people who think it's a bad idea to be able to run dungeons 24hours in a row should you feel like it. I certainly prefer to LFG/PUG my way through levels in XI/WoW than I do questing/soloing.
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#3 Jul 20 2011 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Docent42 wrote:
I'm happy. If dungeons are good for XP, then this might be the start of a different form of group XPing. Looking forward to it, personally.

I'm not sure what to think of all the people who think it's a bad idea to be able to run dungeons 24hours in a row should you feel like it. I certainly prefer to LFG/PUG my way through levels in XI/WoW than I do questing/soloing.

I personally am totally agnostic. However, to explain peoples' worries, it depends entirely on the content of the dungeons. If the dungeons are goal based where the ultimate objective of players when entering is to get all of the "lute"All rights reserved FFI, with a 5 minute reentry time, no matter how much content there is, there will be many players that will exhaust it within 24 hours. No, that was not hyperbole, with a 5 minute reentry time, even if there are 40 new items for every class, there will be people who grind it all out within the first day.

On the other hand, if dungeons are experience based or drop consumable items, then there is nothing to worry about at all, as no matter how often you can enter, there will always be more to do. This comes with it's own pitfall, however, which is that there is no sense of accomplishment of "completing" the dungeon. There is something to be said for the psychological impact of being able to get 100% completion even in an MMO (at least in small chunks). From a design perspective, having all of your content infinitely reusable is not necessarily a good thing.

To summarize, what some people are worried about is that with a 5 minute reentry time, their long awaited content will dry up much faster than SE can add more.
#4 Jul 20 2011 at 5:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hulan wrote:
To summarize, what some people are worried about is that with a 5 minute reentry time, their long awaited content will dry up much faster than SE can add more.

It's a bad thing in the short term, agreed, since there will be nothing else to do.

But is it a bad thing in the long term? Four years from now, do we really want a new player to have to pray for the right drop in a dungeon he can only enter once every N hours/days/weeks and gate his gear progression that way?

I suppose they could have put a 1 day timer on the dungeons now, and lower it with time, but if it starts low, the only risk is that player will be done with it fast and move on or get bored, but hey, we were already bored before the patch, so is returning to that state such a big problem? I'd say it's a given that it won't be very long before everyone is bored again, no matter if content is gated or not.

In any case, being able to find people who WANT to run the dungeons with me, instead of people who CAN (timer is up) and WANT to run it with me is going to make PUGing easier. I'm certainly all for mechanics that facilitate people play in groups.
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#5 Jul 20 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Good
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They mentioned in the past that there was multiple wings within each dungeon and that with a timer you couldn't do the entire dungeon in one go. I see the dungeons being a more enhanced version of the NM's that cropped up for the 25-35 crowd. Stuff that you can get if you set your mind to it and wouldn't need to worry about camping much, but ultimately content that you can ignore otherwise if you don't need it.

Also don't forget these dungeons are likely going to be tied to the company system. If they add some form of currency for different accomplishments within the dungeon, then people will happily grind it out to get whatever items you can get from the system. Not to mention the option for daily quests. What if there was a new repeatable quest each Eorzean Day that had you go and accomplish something within the dungeon? That would lead to constant new content without much tweaking of the dungeon itself. Basically a quest that you get randomly generated for you when you walk in, kinda like Nyzul Isle on Steroids. Also if monsters can drop items that sell and give EXP, it could also easily be used as a form of leveling which would bode well for when other dungeons eventually get released. If they added 1-2 dungeons in 5 level intervals (20-24, 25-30 (which is what I'm guessing for the first dungeon), 31-35, 36-40, 40-45 etc.) then they could add group content for leveling that anyone can do at any time that also moves your character forward in getting stronger outside of just leveling.

When they mentioned a lockout timer and an internal timer I was worried the content would be a 'once and a while' piece that you did once a day and couldn't do again, but now there are so many more options that come up with just the 5 minute timer.
#6 Jul 20 2011 at 9:40 PM Rating: Excellent
I wonder if there will be some sort of payment to enter; like gil, guild marks, an item, etc.

And I still want to know what these deaspected crystals are for.
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#7 Jul 20 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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Here to eat my words about my previous statement in another thread. I had thought that there would be a longer lockout, but I was wrong. It is hard to admit defeat, but even harder to figure out what the idea was behind a 5 minute lockout. I guess since we don't really know how the dungeons work it is all speculation at this point. I only see a few possibilities though. Either the classic static instance where the mobs, bosses and loot table are the same every time. The other being where the instance population depends on selecting certain objectives similar to MMM.

The latter of those two possibilities would make the content last slightly longer, but I don't see how people won't tear through this content in a matter of weeks if not sooner. The only thing I can see driving people to go back is if it is the latter and somehow the ranks/seals obtained for GC are tied int to these instances. The reason I question the 5 minute lockout is that unless there is a choke point somewhere, people will burn straight through whatever ranks and spoils are available and quit again until 1.19 drops.

You have to remember, people have been content starved in XIV for nearly a year now. Anyone who still plays even intermittently is going to dive headlong into GC and instance content. I'm just not sure how they plan to keep it relevant without bleeding it out to the players.
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#8 Jul 21 2011 at 12:40 AM Rating: Excellent
In the grand scheme of things, I don't think these dungeons are what's planned for endgame content, because I doubt that lvl 50 will remain the "endgame" stage for too long.
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#9 Jul 21 2011 at 1:18 AM Rating: Decent
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These istances, as already mentioned by SE are not End game content, they are ranking up content. Yoshi mentioned that end game raids would be included at a later stage.

Also, as mentioned by a previous poster I dont think there will be a dynamic change in bosses present in the dungeon, if anything there will be more content than can possibly be completed (with the appropriate ranks) in one go and as such each run will have to leave out 1 or a couple bosses/areas.

I'm hoping that these bosses will be the most chalenging ones presenting a virtual hardcore content for those players which are looking for it and at the same time allowing casual players to enjoy some if not the majority of the content at the same time.
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#10 Jul 21 2011 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah im not looking for these 2 instances to be end all be all end game for the next 5 years, I could see the cap being raised in the next 6 months reguardless.
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#11 Jul 21 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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I could see the cap being raised in the next 6 months regardless.


Not a chance. I don't see that happening anytime soon. It would be a huge waste of resources if SE even considered raising the cap in the next 6 months. They need to seriously overhaul the 1-49 experience to make it more fun, less grindy, more diverse and dynamic content, etc. Be it quest driven, leve-centric, traditional party camps, quest hubs, company based content, whatever....the road from 1-49 needs one helluva facelift if they want to attract new players to their game (which I'm pretty sure is their goal, to make a product that people actually enjoy playing and want to buy).

After they fix 1-49, they need to add real endgame content @ 50. Whether it's larger scale raids, more instanced dungeons, whatever, there needs to be a real endgame @ 50. There has to be something that encourages and motivates people to press on to 50.

Then, and only then, would I anticipate SE increasing the leveling cap and worrying about content 50+. I'll have to call your post wishful thinking; based on your signature, you are probably itching for something to do beyond grinding jobs to 50. Just because you've been able to tolerate the grind again and again and again doesn't mean it's an enjoyable experience that people are flocking to FFXIV to be a part of.

You've got to read the recent MMORPG.com review of this game (it's linked in another recent thread). The article and all of the comments below said article are a painful truth and insight into public opinion of this game. The game as a whole needs some serious work and you are calling for a level cap increase? I'd venture to say that most of the community here @ ZAM has at least one job @ 50, and we would all love to have some real endgame or some content 50+. But that's selfish. For the greater good / longevity of the game, SE's focus is right where it needs to be: overhauling the games infrastructure, core systems, and gameplay experience from 1-50.

I'm sorry you rushed everything to cap, but you are a very small minority (players with almost everything capped) of a very small minority (people who play FFXIV). I'd genuinely be upset if SE wasted time and resources catering to the super hardcore contingent. At the end of day, there's never enough content and the level cap is never high enough for the hardcore. Maat's cap is a perfect example from FFXI. An insane achievement that no one in their right mind should ever have attained, but plenty of people had it. I'd be embarrassed to admit that I played video games that much.
#12 Jul 21 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
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They won't be adding endgame content for level 50, because it is so clearly not endgame.

I would say they will follow the pattern of FFXI, and raise the cap by 5 levels when the PS3 version comes out, then another 5 in a few months, and so on.

That's not to say the PS3 version is 6 months away... It's probably much further because they are working on making 1-50 enjoyable. But I wouldn't think they would add "endgame" as much as they will add more stuff to do at 50.
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#13 Jul 21 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
They won't be adding endgame content for level 50, because it is so clearly not endgame.

I would say they will follow the pattern of FFXI, and raise the cap by 5 levels when the PS3 version comes out, then another 5 in a few months, and so on.

That's not to say the PS3 version is 6 months away... It's probably much further because they are working on making 1-50 enjoyable. But I wouldn't think they would add "endgame" as much as they will add more stuff to do at 50.


endgame is really just a term for content at the current level cap. There is no real reason to raise a level cap until you feel you've exhausted all your options at a particular stage, and feel its time to raise the cap and wipe the slate clean so to speak. I really don't know why FFXI staggered so short and frequently (or if that was common at the time for MMOs), but to me it looked like they were trying to stall and squeak out content while they were working on their intended level cap.

Edited, Jul 21st 2011 11:39am by KujaKoF
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#14 Jul 21 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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thejones wrote:
After they fix 1-49, they need to add real endgame content @ 50. Whether it's larger scale raids, more instanced dungeons, whatever, there needs to be a real endgame @ 50. There has to be something that encourages and motivates people to press on to 50.

Then, and only then, would I anticipate SE increasing the leveling cap and worrying about content 50+.


So SE needs to centre endgame around Rank 50 and then raise the cap, effectively changing the focus from the very rank they assiduously tried to promote? It seems strange to essentially negate all of their efforts toward a rank 50 endgame by increasing the cap afterwards.
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#15 Jul 21 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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So SE needs to centre endgame around Rank 50 and then raise the cap, effectively changing the focus from the very rank they assiduously tried to promote? It seems strange to essentially negate all of their efforts toward a rank 50 endgame by increasing the cap afterwards.



This is exactly what they did in XI, and as in XI, there are files in XIV containing abilities past rank 50 and mobs free roaming that con way past R75.

They will raise the cap, otherwise the dats and all the 80+ mobs would have been incorporated for no reason. I wouldn't expect it to happen before the first expansion is released though. I'd make a guess of about another 10 months at the 50 cap.



Edited, Jul 21st 2011 1:22pm by Restyoneck
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#16 Jul 21 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Restyoneck wrote:
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So SE needs to centre endgame around Rank 50 and then raise the cap, effectively changing the focus from the very rank they assiduously tried to promote? It seems strange to essentially negate all of their efforts toward a rank 50 endgame by increasing the cap afterwards.


This is exactly what they did in XI, and as in XI, there are files in XIV containing abilities past rank 50 and mobs free roaming that con way past R75.


What was the endgame built around level 50/60 in FFXI? I was under the impression that FFXI reached the level 75 cap relatively early on and then stayed at that for years and years.
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#17 Jul 21 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
They won't be adding endgame content for level 50, because it is so clearly not endgame.

I would say they will follow the pattern of FFXI, and raise the cap by 5 levels when the PS3 version comes out, then another 5 in a few months, and so on.

That's not to say the PS3 version is 6 months away... It's probably much further because they are working on making 1-50 enjoyable. But I wouldn't think they would add "endgame" as much as they will add more stuff to do at 50.


endgame is really just a term for content at the current level cap. There is no real reason to raise a level cap until you feel you've exhausted all your options at a particular stage, and feel its time to raise the cap and wipe the slate clean so to speak. I really don't know why FFXI staggered so short and frequently (or if that was common at the time for MMOs), but to me it looked like they were trying to stall and squeak out content while they were working on their intended level cap.

Edited, Jul 21st 2011 11:39am by KujaKoF


They did it from 50-75 and again from 75-90, so it wasn't necessarily to stall, though I prefer this method because you always have people who speed to cap in a day.

In FFXI, they added quests for every 5 levels to raise cap which gave you content. This was lacking from 75-90 though, and they were just simple turn in seals quests.
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#18 Jul 21 2011 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
What was the endgame built around level 50/60 in FFXI? I was under the impression that FFXI reached the level 75 cap relatively early on and then stayed at that for years and years.


Level 50 endgame in FFXI was about beating the Shadowlord (but at level 50, it was so hard, no one could beat it). It had the ultimate spell, Holy (which was teh awesum before it was nerfed into its current lolspell state), much like Level 99 Endgame will have the ultimate spell, Meteor.

Level 60 endgame in FFXI was all about AF quests, much like Level 75 Endgame started off with AF2 quests in Dynamis, and Level 90 Endgame has AF3 quests in Abyssea. The level 60 cap also introduced Ancient Magic.
#19 Jul 21 2011 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
Restyoneck wrote:
Quote:
So SE needs to centre endgame around Rank 50 and then raise the cap, effectively changing the focus from the very rank they assiduously tried to promote? It seems strange to essentially negate all of their efforts toward a rank 50 endgame by increasing the cap afterwards.


This is exactly what they did in XI, and as in XI, there are files in XIV containing abilities past rank 50 and mobs free roaming that con way past R75.


What was the endgame built around level 50/60 in FFXI? I was under the impression that FFXI reached the level 75 cap relatively early on and then stayed at that for years and years.


Well , there was the Shadowlord, and while he may seem laughable as end-game now, then we were capped at 50, and there were FAR less abilities/spells/subs/gear at our disposal. That mission was incredibly hard, and without question was end-game content at that time.
Many of the beastmen stronghold NMs we consider very minor NMs now were pretty much end-game NMs at 50.
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