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So, I guess this is it.Follow

#52 Jul 21 2011 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
>implying Olorinus is male


On the record, I referred to her as a she. :D
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#53 Jul 21 2011 at 10:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol I'm so happy with this change. I'm walking on sunshine Smiley: nod Everyone should make an effort in parties, that means you too healers (>°°)b
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#54 Jul 21 2011 at 10:47 PM Rating: Good
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yes, in parties, those non existent things I don't do because almost everyone I ever played with quit - so when I logged in since generally leaving, I soloed. And omg, I was so overpowered a black sheep nm in Coerthas practically 1 shotted me.

For the record, I put a lot of effort in the way it was before. Not having to spend the whole battle single target curing people and having mp I could use for something besides healing meant I could do other stuff like nuke and debuff... of course I wasn't in these perfect set-up parties honed through months of auto-failing leves, but, I duoed and fiddled around with my friends, and ****, I even soloed stuff.

I know that soloing is a dirty word. Wouldn't want anyone who has left or whose friends have left the game to come back and have something to do.

Oh, wait! I can do a GUILDLEVE. CAUSE THEY ARE SO MUCH FUN. AND I CAN DO AS MANY OF THEM AS I WANT... /sigh

I'll log in, try to kill something insignificant, spend way too much time and mp doing it, get crappy SP, have no mp left, watch my mp bar slowly fill for a minute, and then log out. I am fairly convinced of it.

It was bad enough that SE failed to give us any real variety in mage classes. Now thm won't even be viable.

Con: healer, nuker, buffer
Thm: debuffer

who has more utility? Who will get invites?

But we wouldn't want thms to be able to solo things.
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#55 Jul 21 2011 at 11:16 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus I have high respect for you, you've been on these forums a long time. But I would like to tastefully disagree and say that the game should have been like this from the start. The mp cost is at least arguable, but the way the cures were aoe'd made it dummy mode.
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#56 Jul 21 2011 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
For the record, I put a lot of effort in the way it was before. Not having to spend the whole battle single target curing people and having mp I could use for something besides healing meant I could do other stuff like nuke and debuff...

I thought they removed the aoe goodness of incredibly OP (both in cost and effectiveness) cure/sac bombing because they added specific aoe cure spells. I didn't build much experience from the few days I logged in to play, but my CON did get up to R18. I don't ever recall being the least bit worried about my mp. Tripling the cost seems reasonable to me.

I will agree with you on the lack of variety, but that point is made moot by the fact that classes don't really have any identity anyway. I'm actually surprised that there isn't some cookie-cutter build comprised of abilities from 5 classes that everyone rolls so they can melt faces while tank/DD/healing all at the same time.

I get the feeling that with the coming specialized jobs, they're going to nerf all of the basic classes down to their socks and make the abilities you get from new classes kick ***. Just an idea.
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#57 Jul 22 2011 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
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aw helllll ya,

I was REALLY afraid I'd have to level a DOM to have subskills that would make me a respectable DOW. I hate mage ****.

Can't wait for this update to get done downloading so I won't feel so gimp as a rank 1 thm and cng while being a 35 gladiator. I got an excuse to not rank up DOM now.
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#58 Jul 22 2011 at 12:19 AM Rating: Default
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Aww, they made it so you cant CURE XXXXIV SPAM.

cry more.

Manage your MP like a real man.
#59 Jul 22 2011 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
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DoctorMog wrote:
Aww, they made it so you cant CURE XXXXIV SPAM.

cry more.

Manage your MP like a real man.


Um, she's a woman and gosh, Mog, for the life of me, I can't understand why the prevailing opinion of you around here is a sanctimonious prick.

Mysteries abound, eh?
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#60 Jul 22 2011 at 12:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Like I care.

Im glad they made the game tough.

Was pretty sick of walking over all of the content.
#61 Jul 22 2011 at 12:27 AM Rating: Decent
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DoctorMog wrote:
Like I care.

Im glad they made the game tough.

Was pretty sick of walking over all of the content.


I bet. You did it all when it was easy and absolutely no skill was involved. Quite a coup.
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#62 Jul 22 2011 at 12:43 AM Rating: Default
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Well, we just hit the captains quarters in the new dungeon.

Where you at?
#63 Jul 22 2011 at 12:44 AM Rating: Good
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i'm in the boat of "let's just see what happens first".

my initial opinion on this is they raised the MP costs a little to high, but maybe i'm wrong. in passive mode MP regen is quick. As long as i can sustain the party with only having to rest every now and then this should be fine.

if i have to rest after every single mob, or if it's really hard to keep people alive trying to manage MP, then this will be a problem.

i think olornius is looking at FFXI and it's MP costs compared to FFXIV. if FFXI had FFXIV MP costs back before all this abyssea stuff, it would have been really hard to manage MP. but that game plays differently so there shouldn't be a comparison.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 2:48am by Keysofgaruda
#64 Jul 22 2011 at 12:48 AM Rating: Default
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I used to whiteknight this game to the end of the earth and back.

Great! One more reason why we won't miss you!
Bye!

Stupid Drama Queen:
"I didn't even try it, but I know it is sooo bad. I simply know it."

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 2:49am by Rinsui
#65 Jul 22 2011 at 12:59 AM Rating: Default
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Keysofgaruda wrote:
As long as i can sustain the party with only having to rest every now and then this should be fine.

What is this party you speak of? I didn't see anything about it in the patch notes...

Keysofgaruda wrote:
if i have to rest after every single mob...

Do people just run around all the time in active mode? I would think you would 'rest' by putting your weapon away after every mob.


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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#66 Jul 22 2011 at 1:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't remember what sacrifice 2 and cure 2 cost prepatch but around 70mp a spell and mp for Pug punches has killed the way I soloed with 400 mp.Only 2hours in and I'm dreading to do rank40 leves solo this is a group game now.
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#67 Jul 22 2011 at 2:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
]
Stupid Drama Queen:
"I didn't even try it, but I know it is sooo bad. I simply know it."

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 2:49am by Rinsui


Math is hard, I know. It is very difficult to pass judgement on a total nerf by simply looking at the numbers.
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#68 Jul 22 2011 at 3:07 AM Rating: Good
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bsphil wrote:
>implying Olorinus is male


I would love it if someone called you a troll for that.

And this thread just proves how much people hate change.
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#69 Jul 22 2011 at 3:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Giving up sounds like your best option. This game has too much potential to quit so easily. I'm still playing.


This argument was bad when someone first said, after all this time it's beyond retarded.

A lump of crap has the potential to be a work of art in the hands of an artist, very few people want to play with crap though.
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#70 Jul 22 2011 at 3:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I suspect the harsh hit to MP usage will probably set the stage for other support jobs such as Bard and Red Mage to step in. After all, with a decent RDM refreshing you (or I guess BRD since RDM is not planned yet) there would not be as much standing around watching your MP slowly regen.

Also as stated they can revert changes if need be. The squeaky wheel gets the grease after all. Plus if you do find the changes unplayable I would recommend killing time till the next update comes out. (Playing Oblivion waiting for Skyrim here)

Currently I still await the day they add Red Mage, Beast Master, or Summoner to the game. They can improve every aspect of the game, but none of the current classes really draw me in like these classes did.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 4:29am by Dorgon
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#71 Jul 22 2011 at 4:32 AM Rating: Decent
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I can't believe you're crying about not having infinite MP. Why not remove the concept of MP entirely if it's such a problem?

And the reason you'd save all your MP for cures is because cures are better than non-cures. The way to make other spells more appealing is not to make MP infinite but to make them stronger or cures weaker. I haven't tested the patch yet, so I can't say how it is with any confidence, but you're like a spoiled brat who cries when mom finally takes away the endless hoard of candy because you're growing obese and and your teeth are falling out.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 6:35am by Omena
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#72 Jul 22 2011 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Currently I still await the day they add Red Mage, Beast Master, or Summoner to the game. They can improve every aspect of the game, but none of the current classes really draw me in like these classes did.


They intend to keep 3 mmos running at once, including FFXI and FFXIV. They won't carbon copy stuff from XI to here in the way you think they will, for what they want to do to be in any way successfull they need to try keep all 3 somewhat unique.
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#73 Jul 22 2011 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
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I keep hearing this "boohooo I can't solo my NM's now I RAGEQUITE!" wtf were you expecting. Yoshi's goal was to increase difficulty and give everyone a sense of accomplishment. How is maxing all jobs to 50 so you can solo everything anything near accomplishment?

Its easy to attain 1500MP and we have a plethora of MP regen skills, if you trivialize cure with a 12 MP cost you essentially negate the need for anyone to use any HP regen skills: bloodbath, speed surge, etc all useless since 1 bot can spam sac 2 all day and there is no need. By making cures a focused job GLD's just became a STAPLE of the game, no more "we don't need a mean tank just let the LNC voke". You now need the glad's shield to mitigate DMG. This is all needed for the progression of the community and the game. Stop your trolling and go find a diff game to easy-mode in.
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#74 Jul 22 2011 at 7:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Bye Olorinus. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it.

THM was way overpowered as it is, and a nerf was inevitable. As it was, it could solo many high level notorious monsters by itself.


Sorry, but this mentality just bothers me. A rdm could do the exact same thing in ffxi. What's the difference? I'm not saying THM didn't need a BIT of a nerf, but they just completely destroyed it. Heck, THM used to be a great alternate healing option to CON... now, they don't get a single AoE spell. Can they even equip the curagas? And if so, are they anywhere near as potent as a CON casting them?

I agree about the overreaction by Olo, but I also agree with him that turning mage jobs into nothing but MP managers is not what I wanted to see. FFXIV was the first game I've ever played where I actually enjoyed playing as a mage. I really can't see myself enjoying it much anymore since CON will just be pigeonholed as "healer only" and thm as, well... I don't even know.

I'm now just waiting to see if 1.19 will add more utility to these classes, because as it stands I think SE just removed a heck of a lot of their versatility, something that I thought was the entire POINT of FFXIV.
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#75 Jul 22 2011 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
Unless SE reverses the total and utter nerf of mages in this game (especially since they have failed to say they were improving DoL and DoH) I don't see myself ever coming back.

After Abyssea I am not, repeat NOT, going to suffer through MP micro-management fantasy ever again. It just isn't fun, and I don't buy that it is the only way to create challenging encounters.

If SE thinks micro-managing MP = strategy they should make DoW classes suffer the same way by making all cures self target only so that DDs have to learn to manage their HP. Cause, that would be fun, right?

Anyway, I am severely disssapointed, especially with the THM nerf and I am not even sure I will download the patch. It is too bad, things seemed to be looking up, but SE clearly missed the boat again.

/cheers folks. Hope you have fun.


I just read through the patch notes. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to check the changes ingame yet, but most of the stuff they changed seems reasonable.
It was clearly stated that there would be fundamental changes to spells and abilities numerous times in the past.
They told us about the improvements of DoL and DoH too on Lodestone.
In fact, we already knew most of the stuff written in the patch notes except for some details, smaller changes and the changes to the abilities/spells.

I agree that the increased MP cost of the spells, in addition to making many of them single target only, seems disappointing. But I won't comment on this before trying it myself.
Maybe it's not as bad as we think, maybe they overdid it,... whatever. They can lower the MP cost of the spells anytime. Don't forget that this is only the first step of the game revamp.

The fact that they would "ballance" (I'm not calling this a nerf yet) DoM and/or MP management sooner or later was pretty obvious. It was too good to stay that way. MP regen while in passive mode, Siphon MP (even AoE), an ability to refill all MP, weaponskills with a small drain MP effect?
There was almost no need to watch your MP as a DoM.
Managing your MP is strategy. It's the same as managing your HP, enmity, recast timers and TP.
And it's not only DoM that get hit by these changes. If you play solo you will have a harder time now, no matter if you play DoW or DoM.

Also, the increased MP consumption seems to affect mainly curative spells (please correct me if I'm wrong). That means all other spells still have the same MP cost. So, this makes healing harder, especially groups of players. That fact increases the need of dedicated tanks to mitigate damage.
Then you need damage dealers and support jobs for the whole party.
It's the start of giving classes/jobs a more defined role in a party.

Oh, and regarding Summoner, Beastmaster and Red Mage. These are not FFXI exclusive jobs and the devs already stated that there will be pet job(s) but they didn't decide on their roles and mechanics yet.
So, it might take some time but it's pretty sure we'll get some of them.

I, for my part, am excited about this patch. After taking a break from the game for a few weeks I can't wait to log on after work to check out the new stuff.
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#76 Jul 22 2011 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
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Still as a result of healers having to manage mp, bad playstyles from other classes will be exposed:
  • Tanks can't slack anymore and have to go on defensive.
  • Damage dealers need to watch positioning to avoid aoe as much as possible.


The whole party is responsible for managing mp of healer. This nerf improves teamwork Smiley: grin
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#77 Jul 22 2011 at 7:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well THM needed nerf bad, but this, this is just too much in my opinion. If all SE did was Emulate 60 > 30 sec i would not even loose a sweat. But what they did was well stupid. I use THM for the Healing on my GLD, but i have the class at 50 too.. and i just cant except the changes. In XI RDM was able to solo just as much as THM pre 1.18 and SE did not care to bring it down. So nothing justifies making THM useless in XIV. If they are trying to attract people SE needed to make classes more refined, not completely broken. As well not only heals SE broke THM DoT's, recast 60, duration 30, dps no aoe's, absorb stronger but no aoe's.. As much it hurts me to say this i think SE not only dropped the ball on this, but blindly threw it over the fence in to a hole.

1.18 - 1.20 may the the gap that defines the game, but if this patch of class murder id any indications of whats to come i don't think any one would care. Maybe in intro of jobs will spin all the for the best, how ever if they **** on the players not even calling it rain no one will be around to even care.
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#78 Jul 22 2011 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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Increasing resource costs is the second laziest way to make encounters more challenging (the first being adding fear mechanics to every other fight). Thats what this looks like to me so I have to agree.

If this was done because they made MP regen, should have been done months ago. If this is being done because they are adding refresh mechanics at some point, neat maybe but from what I'm seeing we're still quite a ways away from abilities/mechanics that complex actually entering the game.
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#79 Jul 22 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
I'm now just waiting to see if 1.19 will add more utility to these classes, because as it stands I think SE just removed a heck of a lot of their versatility, something that I thought was the entire POINT of FFXIV.


The game is still under construction, however. Even if THM seems nerfed to **** now, it may make sense once further changes come down the road. In any event, it certainly won't be left in a state of uselessness.

In FFXI, pre-NA release, the black mage was pathetic compared to the damage that white mages could cause. Fusion skillchains was strategy of choice on beastman targets (who were weak to light), and white mages did most of the work... healed, performed magic bursts, and even tanked them. Yeah. Even that.

It certainly didn't stay that way, of course. Beastman were made 50% stronger, and white mage nukes were soundly nerfed while black mage spells benefited from wonders of INT and Ancient Magic (laughable now, but a huge boost back then), and they never looked back.

So if it seems bad now, just wait a couple of patches.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 10:12am by ForceOfMeh
#80 Jul 22 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Is a conj a WHM? Or it a class that has healing spells until they introduce WHM in a later patch? Considering everyone has the ability to heal themselves, I'm still not quite sure why any of this is a big deal.

Unless of course you are expecting a Conj to be your WHM and do not what to add a couple cure spells to your bar.

I welcome anything to make this game more challenging.

Now...where's my AH? That's a real problem worth discussing.
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#81 Jul 22 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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I have to just say this - I really appreciate the tone of dialogue here in the zam forums. It is really nice to be able to express my concerns without (most) people calling me names and telling me to "gtfo"

I was on the official forums yesterday, and what a festering snake pit it is.

Thanks for the respect, folks, agree or disagree
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#82insanekangaroo, Posted: Jul 22 2011 at 9:33 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) kthxbai
#83 Jul 22 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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I still don't understand why people don't like this? First if someone does not like resting for mana or mp like in almost every rpg out there they can simply change class this is the beauty of Final Fantasy mmorpg's.

The fact that melee class can cure spam as much as a mage was wrong and bad in the first place this shouldn't have been like this since the game was release due to "easy mode" steam roll through everything and breaks people away from partying and working together/coming up with strategy/conserving mp and using skills wisely/etc instead of this new generation that just wants everything easy and handed down to them or dumb down enough that they can do a lot with minimal thinking. No offense to anyone who disagrees but the game was a bit too easy and people didn't party due to this fact and I am loving the new updates.
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#84 Jul 22 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Default
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I think it is strategy to have think about a spell cost/ benifit before actually casting it. Is it worth the MP? Can the person I'm casting Sac3 cure themselves? , etc Also a reason to actually have points into Mind. It will be interesting once they take away point allotment to see how much MP the mage classes get.


I only played a couple hours last night and the only thing I was dissapointed with was the server crashes and the ls bug.



I think this is going to get a great first step in refreshing the game.

I also enjoy clubbing the mob with my scepter with autoattack lol
#85 Jul 22 2011 at 11:00 AM Rating: Excellent
The low MP cost for AoE cures really reduced the challenge of healing in a party. Each and every mage could afford to cast a full party heal every time 1 person got low on health.

The real challenge remains. Targeting the right player in time.

I know you have had experiences in the past where the patch notes just don't do the actual change justice. This is going to require healing in a few different party setups to understand it's true significance.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 1:01pm by SmashingtonWho
#86 Jul 22 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Iron Chef Olorinus wrote:
Yeah, I will give it a try, and thanks for backing me up on the troll part... it is just sooo ironic to me.

It's safe to say your eyes were finally opened over the course of the last year. I remember your constant XIV/SE cheerleading.
It was nice when you went back to XI and reminded you what it was to actually have fun as opposed to trying to convince yourself you were having fun. Not that there weren't/aren't some fun things about XIV or really crappy things about XI.
#87 Jul 22 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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So they messed up the mage class now, for a chance that in the future they might fix it ?

makes perfect sense...... "Hey lets increase MP cost, and make mage's have to micromanage, we will fix them up later on some patch 10 months down the lane anyways"
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#88 Jul 22 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I was hoping that mages being "fun" and not "sit around and wait for mp" was a conscious design choice, especially when I experienced how they are moving in that direction in XI.

Oh well, thank god I took a break when I did or I would be even more furious now. The reason I took the break was cause I was worried they would ruin the things I liked about the game.

And it looks like they have.

/shrugs

I mean, I simply don't buy that the only way to make the game more challenging was to make mages less interactive and more about "hurry up and wait".

Why not make TP only refillable outside of battle and make DDs manage it? Why is it acceptable to force mages to spend time not playing, but DD can keep going forever?
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#89 Jul 22 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Part of the problem with most of the complaints people have is that they don't take into account that this isn't a complete product, and that there are still months of changes ahead.

But, because people decided to grind their life away on an empty MMO, they burn themselves out before everything is taken care of, and start into the ragequit rants and incessant whining about a system KNOWN TO BE INCOMPLETE.

Are all the battle changes good? Nope.
Are a lot of them good? Yep.
Are all the battle changes set in stone? Nope.
Are they going to continue battle tweaking throughout the summer at this point? Yep.

It's time to realize... there is no miracle patch... the sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll get back to life and check in occasionally like the rest of the playerbase who seems content to wait on changes to be finished.
#90 Jul 22 2011 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I didn't expect a miracle patch.

I also didn't expect my favourite battle classes to be nerfed.

I can buy that more tools will be put in place for mages later (like being able to cast in passive mode) but they shouldn't have upped the MP costs before making those changes. That is my gripe.
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#91 Jul 22 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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DeadKings wrote:
Part of the problem with most of the complaints people have is that they don't take into account that this isn't a complete product, and that there are still months of changes ahead.

But, because people decided to grind their life away on an empty MMO, they burn themselves out before everything is taken care of, and start into the ragequit rants and incessant whining about a system KNOWN TO BE INCOMPLETE.

Are all the battle changes good? Nope.
Are a lot of them good? Yep.
Are all the battle changes set in stone? Nope.
Are they going to continue battle tweaking throughout the summer at this point? Yep.

It's time to realize... there is no miracle patch... the sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll get back to life and check in occasionally like the rest of the playerbase who seems content to wait on changes to be finished.


Why do people keep saying that everyone assumed this was the "miracle patch"? No one that I know of thought this, and anyone who did was clearly fooling themselves, as was made ABUNDANTLY clear by the devs themselves when they said things would be spaced out over time.

Second, the game has been out for almost a year now. I don't care how hardcore or non-hardcore you are, doing nothing day in and day out because there is no content in the game is frustrating. If people are ****** and want to voice their concerns about it, why do you care? You're having fun? Good, go have fun. You ******** about someone else ******** is just as bad as the initial person. So seriously, just give it a rest w/ this "miracle patch" crap as some kind of excuse to label people who don't like something. It's ridiculous.
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#92 Jul 22 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
Why do people keep saying that everyone assumed this was the "miracle patch"? No one that I know of thought this, and anyone who did was clearly fooling themselves, as was made ABUNDANTLY clear by the devs themselves when they said things would be spaced out over time.

Second, the game has been out for almost a year now. I don't care how hardcore or non-hardcore you are, doing nothing day in and day out because there is no content in the game is frustrating. If people are ****** and want to voice their concerns about it, why do you care? You're having fun? Good, go have fun. You ******** about someone else ******** is just as bad as the initial person. So seriously, just give it a rest w/ this "miracle patch" crap as some kind of excuse to label people who don't like something. It's ridiculous.


Because clearly people did expect it. If you think groundwork patches are gonna come out and everything's gonna be shiney and perfect than you have problems. If you're gonna complain about an incomplete system, your gripe is moot, because you have no foundation to place it on, since it's not a finished system.

Then don't play until the fixes are done if it's such a frustrating experience for you. Square Enix isn't coming to your house making you play their incomplete game. Voicing a concern is different than asinine ******** in regards to an incomplete product. "I'm quitting cause they did this, blah blah blah" <- that is not a concern. Constructive criticism does not come in "I want" and "I'm quitting because" form.

And to be quite honest, you should follow your own advice in that last paragraph. Others' are allowed to voice their opinion, but I'm not? Your logic is flawed and biased.
#93 Jul 22 2011 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Well from my observations it seems they did the big step in implementing mechanics and that will mean that the next update will be faster to smooth thing out. That being said they should have not touched the classes until the changes would of had an end result. Meaning past auto-att they should have touched nothing and focused on UI and so on. I am sure that the changes to all classes which come across negative will make more sens, in the future. But it was a mistake to implement them this early. Example gimping CON and THM would of be more welcomed if when you go in to a job from a class the negatives are balanced out. I was really hoping they would group things and impliment, instead of doing it at random.
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#94 Jul 22 2011 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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DeadKings wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Why do people keep saying that everyone assumed this was the "miracle patch"? No one that I know of thought this, and anyone who did was clearly fooling themselves, as was made ABUNDANTLY clear by the devs themselves when they said things would be spaced out over time.

Second, the game has been out for almost a year now. I don't care how hardcore or non-hardcore you are, doing nothing day in and day out because there is no content in the game is frustrating. If people are ****** and want to voice their concerns about it, why do you care? You're having fun? Good, go have fun. You ******** about someone else ******** is just as bad as the initial person. So seriously, just give it a rest w/ this "miracle patch" crap as some kind of excuse to label people who don't like something. It's ridiculous.


Because clearly people did expect it. If you think groundwork patches are gonna come out and everything's gonna be shiney and perfect than you have problems. If you're gonna complain about an incomplete system, your gripe is moot, because you have no foundation to place it on, since it's not a finished system.


No, actually YOU think that people expected it. What I'm telling you is that MOST people know better, at least most people on the forums. Sure there are fanboys who still expect that everything SE does is gold, but the vast majority of players have become far more critical of SE and wary of their "updates". That isn't some speculation, it's written all over the forums here if you actually took the time to look.

DeadKings wrote:
Then don't play until the fixes are done if it's such a frustrating experience for you. Square Enix isn't coming to your house making you play their incomplete game. Voicing a concern is different than asinine ******** in regards to an incomplete product. "I'm quitting cause they did this, blah blah blah" <- that is not a concern. Constructive criticism does not come in "I want" and "I'm quitting because" form.


I'm not playing, as I've made abundantly clear in posts all over this board. I won't play until i'm satisfied with the changes. Where you got the idea that I AM playing currently, I'm not sure. Oh, and fyi... people are complaining at a product that SHOULD have been complete 10+ months ago. I agree there have been some serious overreactions by people, but I certainly can't blame them. There were a lot of nerfs worked into this patch, and a lot of stuff that just looks like a virtual copy/paste from FFXI, and I think people have a right to complain if they don't like it. That's part of what forums are for.

DeadKings wrote:
And to be quite honest, you should follow your own advice in that last paragraph. Others' are allowed to voice their opinion, but I'm not? Your logic is flawed and biased.


I didn't say you can't voice your opinion, I said I think your opinion about everyone thinking this was a miracle patch was ridiculous, which I still do. When you start labeling people and saying how they're wrong for making a complaint, expect some backlash. Part of being in an argument is being able to defend your viewpoint. Labeling whole groups of people isn't a great defense imo, and I just called you on it.

edit: and just so you know DK, I am not the one rating you down.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 3:15pm by BartelX
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50 WAR • 50 MNK • 50 MIN • 50 GSM • 50 ARM • 50 LTW • 50 CUL • 50 WVR
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#95 Jul 22 2011 at 1:25 PM Rating: Excellent
I want to see patches 1.19 and 1.20 to see how they all tie together.

Still need:
Reliable party member targeting.
A simple "Seek Party" flag with search.

These items are essential and are not on either patch list. Then it will be time to see if the new package has what it takes to create a satisfying game experience.
#96 Jul 22 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
So they messed up the mage class now, for a chance that in the future they might fix it ?

makes perfect sense...... "Hey lets increase MP cost, and make mage's have to micromanage, we will fix them up later on some patch 10 months down the lane anyways"

To be fair, for all of the things people are upset about with this patch, there is no denying that it fundamentally changed the way combat is played. Given that the development team has absolutely no way to beta test such a massive shift in direction beyond a few in house testers, is it really all that surprising that they missed the mark on a few things? I'm not saying that someone shouldn't have put two and two together, but the chances of any large scale patch pushed out this quickly having serious balance issues are extraordinarily high. We will just have to continue to be diligent and point out things that need balancing and hope that they get fixed in a timely fashion.
#97 Jul 22 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
I want to see patches 1.19 and 1.20...
This is a good summary of 1.18.
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#98 Jul 22 2011 at 2:26 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Math is hard, I know. It is very difficult to pass judgement on a total nerf by simply looking at the numbers.

I shed a tear,
for you alone,
because I tried.

Go whine. In some dark corner.
Because nobody loves you.
Or your drama.
#99 Jul 22 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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P.s.: The least problems we had in the Darkhold was with MP.

"Do the math" said the losing general.
"We have more horses than they have tanks. So we win."

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 4:29pm by Rinsui
#100 Jul 22 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
cant wait till they ***** up job stats next by taking out physical level. of course people are gonna be like oh man thats a great idea no more changing my stats all the time and then BAM! Gimps all across the board!

theyre just looking for ways to slow down people from leveling and finishing content too fast so we have something to pay for when they think of stuff to add and start charging.

Edited, Jul 22nd 2011 4:42pm by ScorchyWorchy
#101 Jul 22 2011 at 2:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think that is it, right there. I think they are pretty much boned with most of the playerbase at 50 before the game is even retail quality.

They will have difficulty finding people who want to join a "new" mmo where everyone is at cap, jacking the market and monopolizing content.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


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