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#1 Aug 03 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Decent
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The epic storylines, missions, cut scenes, and side-hobbies from FFXI....

I'm almost considering starting FFXI all over again, but feel the new content would trump all of what I remember being awesome.

Gardening in my furniture filled Mog House, completing the original FFXI missions, etc.

Is it too late for FFXI... has anyone started again from scratch?
#2 Aug 03 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Default
90% of this post is about ffxi, why not post it in =10?
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#3 Aug 03 2011 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah I could have posted this in FFXI forums, but wanted to direct this towards FFXIV players. Going back to FFXI seems to be like a bad idea and was wondering if (after playing FFXIV) anyone had thoughts of returning to FFXI.

I like FFXIV but what I miss (out of any game, MMO or other) is..... <insert original post here>

That is all.
#4 Aug 03 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Good
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I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)
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#5 Aug 03 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.
#6 Aug 03 2011 at 12:28 PM Rating: Decent
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FFXIV is still currently missing the "magic" that FFXI had years ago. This "magic" comes from many things. Some are(in my opinion of course):

1. Active servers where you know have to work with others to accomplish goals, and have no problem finding others who share your goals.
2. An economy that works and adds depth to the game instead of what we have now.
3. Mobs are gear that add to the mystery of the game. FFXIV is lacking the pure magic that other FF titles had. The zones are just not interesting enough yet and mobs are still too spread out and lack personality.
4. Linkshells that work. No idea why this has been on the backburner so long, but I would imagine this should be fixed fairly soon.
5. Music - still is not as good as FFXI. Probably never will be.
6. Housing - Gives you sense of belonging. Both WOW and RIFT lack this also but make up for it for targeting a different type of player-base(younger with less attention span).
7. A storyline and quests that give a sense of accomplishment. Higher risk and higher reward. FFXIV is still too easy so its harder to feel attached to your character.

#1 depends on too many factors to list. 5 probably won't change and 7 will be tricky. The rest I would assume will be addressed in the coming months.

XIV will never be XI in the sense of nostalgia for most of us, but it can be something that continues to grow.
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#7 Aug 03 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
6. Housing - Gives you sense of belonging. Both WOW and RIFT lack this also but make up for it for targeting a different type of player-base(younger with less attention span).


What does attention spans have to do with player housing?
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#8 Aug 03 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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KujaKoF wrote:
What does attention spans have to do with player housing?


I was going to answ.... Squirrel!
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#9 Aug 03 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Squirrel Girl.
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#10 Aug 03 2011 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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I personally find the quests, storylines, lore and setting of FFXIV superior to FFXI. I'm not talking about difficulty and acomplishment-wise, but I enjoy the setting most of all.

The magic is setting in for me with the additions of beastmen camps and quests that send me out to them to murder beastmen :D

I don't think it's possible to recapture the ffxi magic because it was the first FF mmo. It's impossible to experience FF14 in a vacuum outside of FFXI, thus the "new" feeling is missing.

But I have become addicted once again and my addiction is only getting worse.
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#11 Aug 03 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.


I take it you didn't start XI from launch. It was a much much different game than the one you are talking about. The first year of the NA release was much worse than the last 6 months of XIV.

Unless you spoke JP or had a 6 party static, its was super hectic getting to 30, before NA figured out all the camps and stuff. And don't get me started on the GK quests.

The people who get all nostalgic about XI are the same one's who didn't really play XI from launch. Yes XI was polished, didn't have too many game breaking glitches and RoZ was already in place, so you had the story line. But other than that, it was pretty barren for the first year.
#12 Aug 03 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Decent
43 posts
Yokhai wrote:
johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.


I take it you didn't start XI from launch. It was a much much different game than the one you are talking about. The first year of the NA release was much worse than the last 6 months of XIV.

Unless you spoke JP or had a 6 party static, its was super hectic getting to 30, before NA figured out all the camps and stuff. And don't get me started on the GK quests.

The people who get all nostalgic about XI are the same one's who didn't really play XI from launch. Yes XI was polished, didn't have too many game breaking glitches and RoZ was already in place, so you had the story line. But other than that, it was pretty barren for the first year.



Actually I did play at launch! It was pretty crazy, but I took my time playing FFXI and I realized it was something I was going to play for a long time. I remember leveling every class to 15 solo just grinding out mobs and farming fire crystals in the hills of Sandoria! I went to Selbina for the first time and found some nice groups and played for massive hours and got almost all my classes to level 20 and continued to Jueno. I was lucky and found a static party and got to level 60 pretty quick. I remember the headaches of not finding a party for days on end and being an outcast for not being JP. But I'm not reflecting on the bad times, the game was still great! I only played up to the Aht expac... by that time other things took over and I didn't have a lot of time for the game.

FFXI was and will remain a great memory for me. Oh and I had 2 IRL friends who played, so finding parties was pretty easy because we only needed two other members... I played DRK, one played Pally, the other Thief. :) good times
#13 Aug 03 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, OP, I feel like an expert on this matter...

Since the release of FFXIV, I've flip flopped back and forth for months between these two games. I'd played FFXI since the NA release (off and on) so I have a few jobs at Lv. 90 with full merits and good gear. I also have a FFXIV character that made it to about 30 Physical and 20+ Lancer (with many other jobs between levels 10-20).

The graphics of FFXIV are ridiculously good looking, yet I still feel like they aren't even completely polished. I'm just still in awe of how good the game looks. It will only get better. That having been said, I detest about everything else that FFXIV has to offer...partly because I feel like I was so spoiled by FFXI. Here is a game that was once so difficult in comparison to many other MMOs...a game that required a lot of dedication and socializing. FFXI was one of those games that every zone, there were bound to be some players doing something - some more than others, of course. Oh, but the graphics of FFXIV...the potential that is within...

Now, I just feel like I wish they were combined into one game that doesn't exist...and possibly never will (FFXI-2 anyone? ****, that'd be the first decent remake SE will/would have ever made...) ; ;
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#14 Aug 03 2011 at 6:44 PM Rating: Default
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Yokhai wrote:
johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.


I take it you didn't start XI from launch. It was a much much different game than the one you are talking about. The first year of the NA release was much worse than the last 6 months of XIV.

Unless you spoke JP or had a 6 party static, its was super hectic getting to 30, before NA figured out all the camps and stuff. And don't get me started on the GK quests.

The people who get all nostalgic about XI are the same one's who didn't really play XI from launch. Yes XI was polished, didn't have too many game breaking glitches and RoZ was already in place, so you had the story line. But other than that, it was pretty barren for the first year.


This post cannot be any more wrong. FFXI NA launch was perfect from the beginning. All I see this poster doing is QQing about his PERSONAL issues he had with the game and letting that affect his perspective on the state of the game. Move along folks nothing to see here.
#15 Aug 03 2011 at 7:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah I loved FFXI.

I started at NA launch, quit came back, quit etc.

As a level 30 THF tagging along on a SAM quest I remember seeing a 60 DRK in full AF use Guillotine. And I was hooked.

At launch there was a sense of bustling community that lasted I'm sure 'til this day. I would be farming somewhere, just hanging out, and people would ask, "Join party for SAM quest?"

I didn't know where we were going, I just got on a choco and followed. I was in awe of Zi'Tah (not really knowing where I was) and "helped" kill the quest mob. After the Treant was dead, a JP said "D2?^^" And I didn't get it...he used the warp anyway and I was back in Jeuno in an instant.

Since I didn't have the quest I didn't get credit, but it was still fun; hundreds of whirlwinds like that, that really no game has rivaled so far.
#16 Aug 03 2011 at 8:51 PM Rating: Default
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Of course FFXI "isn't the same"... the game is 10 years old. Move on.
#17 Aug 03 2011 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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It's too bad there isn't a pre-ToAU/post-CoP classic server or something for the people that preferred the older-style of FFXI. I'm sure there's enough people who miss the old FFXI to support at least a single classic server.
#18 Aug 04 2011 at 12:59 AM Rating: Good
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KujaKoF wrote:
Simool wrote:
6. Housing - Gives you sense of belonging. Both WOW and RIFT lack this also but make up for it for targeting a different type of player-base(younger with less attention span).


What does attention spans have to do with player housing?

Yeah, I was with you all the way up until the comment about Rift and WoW. I'm assuming that it's a jab, but I can't tell which game it is directed at so maybe you can clarify it for me.

Is this a jab at Rift and WoW because they don't require you to enter a zone called 'Mog House' to change your job or swap out your gear one piece at a time?

Is this a jab at XI because they require you to have a high attention span to feng shui your furniture, dress your mannequin or 'feed' crystals to your plants a few times a month?

Either way... well played sir, well played!

Edited, Aug 4th 2011 2:59am by FilthMcNasty
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#19 Aug 04 2011 at 4:14 AM Rating: Decent
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Imaboomer wrote:
Yokhai wrote:
johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.


I take it you didn't start XI from launch. It was a much much different game than the one you are talking about. The first year of the NA release was much worse than the last 6 months of XIV.

Unless you spoke JP or had a 6 party static, its was super hectic getting to 30, before NA figured out all the camps and stuff. And don't get me started on the GK quests.

The people who get all nostalgic about XI are the same one's who didn't really play XI from launch. Yes XI was polished, didn't have too many game breaking glitches and RoZ was already in place, so you had the story line. But other than that, it was pretty barren for the first year.


This post cannot be any more wrong. FFXI NA launch was perfect from the beginning. All I see this poster doing is QQing about his PERSONAL issues he had with the game and letting that affect his perspective on the state of the game. Move along folks nothing to see here.



No, he's correct. The game originally launched in 2002 in Japan, a year before us NA got a hold of it (we got a polished version and the first expansion for free). It was much worse than XIV is now. They even had free month service back then as well. The only difference between XI's initial release and XIV's initial release is that the latter had a simultaneous worldwide release and a not-as-forgiving more mature MMO-playerbase.
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#20 Aug 04 2011 at 5:16 AM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
No, he's correct. The game originally launched in 2002 in Japan, a year before us NA got a hold of it (we got a polished version and the first expansion for free). It was much worse than XIV is now. They even had free month service back then as well. The only difference between XI's initial release and XIV's initial release is that the latter had a simultaneous worldwide release and a not-as-forgiving more mature MMO-playerbase.

It wasn't amazing, but it was in better state when it released in the US a year later than XIV is now, almost a year later.

A comparison between the two doesn't make any sense. XI was released before people expected anything from the MMO genre and wasn't as developed as it could have been. SE even admitted to trying to cut costs and as a result XI didn't get nearly as much attention. XIV on the other hand has had 6 years to polish and nearly a decade of MMO experience behind it. It took XI 3 years from JP launch to get their subs above 400k. XIV sold more boxes than that out of the gate. The month the allowed players for free play in XI was due to technical issues, not because the game sucked so badly it wasn't playable. Despite how few NA players there were XI was in much better shape then, than XIV is now.
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#21 Aug 04 2011 at 5:30 AM Rating: Decent
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
No, he's correct. The game originally launched in 2002 in Japan, a year before us NA got a hold of it (we got a polished version and the first expansion for free). It was much worse than XIV is now.


A comparison between the two doesn't make any sense. XI was released before people expected anything from the MMO genre and wasn't as developed as it could have been. SE even admitted to trying to cut costs and as a result XI didn't get nearly as much attention. XIV on the other hand has had 6 years to polish and nearly a decade of MMO experience behind it.


Thanks for this. I get so tired of people pointing at XI's "unpolished" release as some sort of justification for the release-fail of ffxiv. It has absolutely no bearing and if anything makes SE look even more foolish since they've supposedly had many years to learn from their first mistakes. In that light, I still ask myself - what where they thinking?

Separately, I went back to my FFXI account a while ago and I just found myself bored because my character ran so slow compared to ffxiv :D Anyone ever notice that?
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#22 Aug 04 2011 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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Yikes!

Guys I didn't want this to create hard feelings between anyone... I think we all appreciated FFXI in our way. If not we wouldn't be playing FFXIV, amirite?

Anyway... I agree with one of the posts above that I would have loved to see FFXI-2, but FFXIV is sort of like that in its own way. We have the same races, similar class structure which is getting changed into our more familiar jobs! There are just a few minor things they left out, which actually seem rather large in my mind.. like the party seeking icons and more user friendly searches. I wish they had a /sea function, or I just don't know what the command is if they do!

Mog Houses... supposedly will be coming! That's exciting. And as I mentioned before, epic storyline... I love all the little cutscenes you would see in FFXI they were so amazing it was an adventure and I felt like part of the game when I was playing.

Last night I actually had a lot of fun on FFXIV... I met a group of people, joined there LS and we did leves and behest for 2-3 hours. My final thoughts are that - I hope this game becomes more popular and bursting with life, social interaction, and we have get more of the things that FFXI so successful converted over.
#23 Aug 04 2011 at 7:38 AM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:

Is this a jab at XI because they require you to have a high attention span to feng shui your furniture, dress your mannequin or 'feed' crystals to your plants a few times a month?


Bingo.

But not really a jab...as I do indeed miss my house. Your Average FF player is just different than your avg WoW/Rift player when it comes to how immersion is viewed. WoW and Rift are designed around battle. FFXI and FFXIV are more around story and atmosphere, with battle mixed in to round things out. The 'attention span' bit comes from many hours of playing WoW and Rift and getting to know the player base. Again...Its just an opinion based on experiences.

I'm not going to get into the "What's the better game?" discussion...but I would hope some of you kind of understand what I am saying.


Edited, Aug 4th 2011 9:39am by Simool
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#24 Aug 04 2011 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
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Simool wrote:
Simool wrote:

Is this a jab at XI because they require you to have a high attention span to feng shui your furniture, dress your mannequin or 'feed' crystals to your plants a few times a month?


Bingo.

But not really a jab...as I do indeed miss my house. Your Average FF player is just different than your avg WoW/Rift player when it comes to how immersion is viewed. WoW and Rift are designed around battle. FFXI and FFXIV are more around story and atmosphere, with battle mixed in to round things out. The 'attention span' bit comes from many hours of playing WoW and Rift and getting to know the player base. Again...Its just an opinion based on experiences.

I'm not going to get into the "What's the better game?" discussion...but I would hope some of you kind of understand what I am saying.


Edited, Aug 4th 2011 9:39am by Simool


I know what you mean. For WoW/Rift players there is so much to do and most of it is so easy that when you accomplish something "oh yeah I got XYZ quests done" it's just like 'whatever... who cares, I've done that 100 times already'. With FFXI it was like "oh yeah I got my chocobo license!" "i got a new summon!" and you would see 'oh nice job, congrats! awesome'. It's more of an accomplishment to do something in FFXI because of the there is high investment of time and dedication and everyone realized that.

Both WoW and Rift cater to the new crowd of; I want it now gamers. If they don't get there "just-rewards" instantly then they are not satisfied. It took many hours to get anything done in FFXI and you needed groups of others to help you. That's my spin on it.
#25 Aug 04 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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johnnypsama wrote:
Simool wrote:
Simool wrote:

Is this a jab at XI because they require you to have a high attention span to feng shui your furniture, dress your mannequin or 'feed' crystals to your plants a few times a month?


Bingo.

But not really a jab...as I do indeed miss my house. Your Average FF player is just different than your avg WoW/Rift player when it comes to how immersion is viewed. WoW and Rift are designed around battle. FFXI and FFXIV are more around story and atmosphere, with battle mixed in to round things out. The 'attention span' bit comes from many hours of playing WoW and Rift and getting to know the player base. Again...Its just an opinion based on experiences.

I'm not going to get into the "What's the better game?" discussion...but I would hope some of you kind of understand what I am saying.


Edited, Aug 4th 2011 9:39am by Simool


I know what you mean. For WoW/Rift players there is so much to do and most of it is so easy that when you accomplish something "oh yeah I got XYZ quests done" it's just like 'whatever... who cares, I've done that 100 times already'. With FFXI it was like "oh yeah I got my chocobo license!" "i got a new summon!" and you would see 'oh nice job, congrats! awesome'. It's more of an accomplishment to do something in FFXI because of the there is high investment of time and dedication and everyone realized that.

Both WoW and Rift cater to the new crowd of; I want it now gamers. If they don't get there "just-rewards" instantly then they are not satisfied. It took many hours to get anything done in FFXI and you needed groups of others to help you. That's my spin on it.


I guess you appreciate a cookie more if you get just one and not a whole bag, but don't be mistaken the variaty of cookies you can get in WoW & FFXI is the same.
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#26 Aug 04 2011 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.

I don't get what your saying.. yo dont want to play XIV because they will add more content after you hit r50? So you would rather hit r50 and then be bored with nothing to do but leves and 2 dungeons? Maybe i am reading wrong but that makes no sense to me.
#27 Aug 04 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Good
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nekroturkey wrote:
It's too bad there isn't a pre-ToAU/post-CoP classic server or something for the people that preferred the older-style of FFXI. I'm sure there's enough people who miss the old FFXI to support at least a single classic server.


You know, um...

There's nothing stopping you from reliving CoP on a regular FFXI server right this minute. Just re-roll a new char, and you can even do the CoP fights at whatever the levels used to be capped at if you really wanted to. Why does the rest of the game need to be scaled back to satisfy your nostalgia... when it doesn't need to be?

I mean, if you want to do old school, then just gather the only 6 people in the world who'd actually want to do this, and relive it! A dedicated server is certainly not required.
#28 Aug 04 2011 at 8:07 PM Rating: Decent
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ForceOfMeh wrote:
Why does the rest of the game need to be scaled back to satisfy your nostalgia... when it doesn't need to be?


I didn't know creating a separate server for the people who prefer the way the game used to be played would be such a problem for the people who prefer the way the game currently plays.

ForceOfMeh wrote:
I mean, if you want to do old school, then just gather the only 6 people in the world who'd actually want to do this, and relive it!


I counted more than six in just this thread alone. Must be a small world if the only people in it who'd actually want this all showed up in this thread to post about it. Guess that it wouldn't be just "my nostalgia" then either, would it?

Just because you don't like the idea of a classic server because of your feelings towards how the game used to be played doesn't mean everyone else shares your opinion. So maybe you can stop pretending to act like your point of view is the same as the majorities and that you are speaking on their behalf, when you're really just speaking on your own.
#29 Aug 05 2011 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
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1,313 posts
johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.


I know, it hurts. I go outside, have a job, a wife, play WoW everyday. . . but it still hurts. FFXI was at one point so far beyond anything else I've experienced in my gaming career. When XIV was announced I knew something would finally take me away from Azeroth and back into the community that I loved and looked forward to logging in to communicate with. I'm sad from typing that.

It's funny that wow players (now rift players too I guess lol?) are grouped into this other category of people with short attention spans and no tenacity. I've played WoW for years and I love the game, but I don't feel anymore for it than I did FFXI. FF is and always will be the most special MMO I've ever played. Just because FFXIV sucks horribly leaving me with WoW, doesn't mean I want everything to be handed to me in an MMO. FFXI isn't what it used to be and neither is WoW. We ALL wanted something new and enjoyable to slay the giants. It just hasn't happened yet.

Edited, Aug 5th 2011 2:45am by Transmigration
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#30 Aug 05 2011 at 4:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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At this moment I am missing a lfp flag above my head and an option that just gives you a list of available players lfp as well. Surely not every player is only doing dungeons, right?

As for nostalgia and FFXI.... not so long ago I had flashbacks from my university days. Back then it was all about rock, having drinks with friends, gf's, the gym, my part-time job... those were great times. I could try to relive them, but will they be the same?

I bet not. Then was then, I really cherish then and look back at it with a smile... but we live now.

I think the closest way to get that FFXI feeling back is by playing on a server created for new characters and even then it won't be the same cause you have seen it all before only now you will be able to march to 90 and use a different route that makes you progress much faster. You don't have to break sweat on Kuftal Crabs because you were not able to find a rdm. Instead of that you go straight to the squishy colibris ... with level sync, so you can really take advantage of the "great experience" range.

As far as I am concerned they implement a lot more FFXI stuff in XIV. FFXIV proves to me that doing your best to make a game different than its predecessor is not necessarily a good thing. I do not think people stopped playing FFXI because they had enough of its battle system, the job system or things like the AH and chocobos. I think they stopped because the challenge was gone (going from 75 to 90 is not really a challenge anymore) and all new stuff boils down to getting even better gear. When I stopped FFXI I was still on the waiting list for already outdated gear. Go figure.

Fact of the matter is that I have plenty of fun memories from FFXI...and basically zero from FFXIV. I hope that is going to change.
#31 Aug 05 2011 at 7:25 AM Rating: Decent
43 posts
Shredmastah wrote:
johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.

I don't get what your saying.. yo dont want to play XIV because they will add more content after you hit r50? So you would rather hit r50 and then be bored with nothing to do but leves and 2 dungeons? Maybe i am reading wrong but that makes no sense to me.


Hey, I'll try to explain a bit more clearly. So FFXI it seemed like there was quests and storyline / missions from the moment you started the game until the very end and beyond. I'm afraid that if I play FFXIV and rank up to 50 before they add storyline, quests, missions, etc... then I'll miss out on that content. I'd like the content to be a challenge, not a push over that I have to go through just to finish the story.

For example... fighting the dragons in FFXI to get complete the 3rd mission (I think it was the 3rd)... can you imagine if you were level 75+ and had to do that? Seems like it would be just an annoyance running through some low level area, to kill a low level mob just to progress through a storyline that you're essentially no longer in touch with.

My fear is that I will spend a lot of time grinding / doing leves or behest to get to rank 50 then all of this great content like new dungeons or added quests will come out and I'll already be beyond the point where it is useful for me to do that stuff.

Does that make more sense?
#32 Aug 05 2011 at 7:34 AM Rating: Good
43 posts
MrMissile wrote:
At this moment I am missing a lfp flag above my head and an option that just gives you a list of available players lfp as well. Surely not every player is only doing dungeons, right?

As for nostalgia and FFXI.... not so long ago I had flashbacks from my university days. Back then it was all about rock, having drinks with friends, gf's, the gym, my part-time job... those were great times. I could try to relive them, but will they be the same?

I bet not. Then was then, I really cherish then and look back at it with a smile... but we live now.

I think the closest way to get that FFXI feeling back is by playing on a server created for new characters and even then it won't be the same cause you have seen it all before only now you will be able to march to 90 and use a different route that makes you progress much faster. You don't have to break sweat on Kuftal Crabs because you were not able to find a rdm. Instead of that you go straight to the squishy colibris ... with level sync, so you can really take advantage of the "great experience" range.

As far as I am concerned they implement a lot more FFXI stuff in XIV. FFXIV proves to me that doing your best to make a game different than its predecessor is not necessarily a good thing. I do not think people stopped playing FFXI because they had enough of its battle system, the job system or things like the AH and chocobos. I think they stopped because the challenge was gone (going from 75 to 90 is not really a challenge anymore) and all new stuff boils down to getting even better gear. When I stopped FFXI I was still on the waiting list for already outdated gear. Go figure.

Fact of the matter is that I have plenty of fun memories from FFXI...and basically zero from FFXIV. I hope that is going to change.



So very true...

It's sad, the game that defined a generation was changed to keep pace with the insta-gratification that other MMO's have. I liked the struggle. I guess it's time to stop reflecting on the past... great times, truly.
#33 Aug 05 2011 at 8:38 AM Rating: Good
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4,145 posts
Simool wrote:
Bingo.

But not really a jab...as I do indeed miss my house. Your Average FF player is just different than your avg WoW/Rift player when it comes to how immersion is viewed. WoW and Rift are designed around battle. FFXI and FFXIV are more around story and atmosphere, with battle mixed in to round things out. The 'attention span' bit comes from many hours of playing WoW and Rift and getting to know the player base.

I was being sarcastic about dressing up your mannequin.

Anyhow, although I did like the storylines of XI better, WoW has much more lore to it. If you'd played previous warcraft games or read any of the books it becomes much more apparent. It isn't the focus like it was in the earlier expansions of XI, but it also isn't forced on you. Some players like a little game with their story. Some like a little story in their game. In XI it was required to progress and in WoW it is there if you want to seek it out.

Your generalization about Rift/WoW players may be your opinion, but it is a generalization. Lumping 12 million people into a category like 'attention deficit' or 'immature' is pretty unfair, especially when the concept of a mog house has absolutely nothing at all to do with attention or maturity level.

johnnypsama wrote:
With FFXI it was like "oh yeah I got my chocobo license!" "i got a new summon!" and you would see 'oh nice job, congrats! awesome'. It's more of an accomplishment to do something in FFXI because of the there is high investment of time and dedication and everyone realized that.

People get a riding license in WoW or Rift just like you do in XI. Again, bad examples to support your claims guys. It isn't more of an accomplishment or dedication because you were patient enough to find something else to do for 5 hours.

johnnypsama wrote:
Both WoW and Rift cater to the new crowd of; I want it now gamers. If they don't get there "just-rewards" instantly then they are not satisfied. It took many hours to get anything done in FFXI and you needed groups of others to help you. That's my spin on it.

WoW and Rift cater to gamers who want accessibility from their games. These games give everyone the opportunity to enjoy (nearly)all of their content and the freedom to pick and choose what they want to experience and when.

I used to appreciate XI; standing in jeuno shouting for half a day for enough interest for a mission or quest, but I had nothing better to do. Now I go to school, I have a job and I have **** to do today. It just doesn't fit. Not because I demand more of the games, but because the games demanded too much of me. When I finally did get things done it wasn't accomplishment I felt, it was relief. Games should have experiences you want to relive or repeat. They shouldn't make you say "I can't wait to get this out of the way" or "I'm glad I finally got that behind me"...
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#34 Aug 05 2011 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
43 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Simool wrote:
Bingo.

But not really a jab...as I do indeed miss my house. Your Average FF player is just different than your avg WoW/Rift player when it comes to how immersion is viewed. WoW and Rift are designed around battle. FFXI and FFXIV are more around story and atmosphere, with battle mixed in to round things out. The 'attention span' bit comes from many hours of playing WoW and Rift and getting to know the player base.

I was being sarcastic about dressing up your mannequin.

Anyhow, although I did like the storylines of XI better, WoW has much more lore to it. If you'd played previous warcraft games or read any of the books it becomes much more apparent. It isn't the focus like it was in the earlier expansions of XI, but it also isn't forced on you. Some players like a little game with their story. Some like a little story in their game. In XI it was required to progress and in WoW it is there if you want to seek it out.

Your generalization about Rift/WoW players may be your opinion, but it is a generalization. Lumping 12 million people into a category like 'attention deficit' or 'immature' is pretty unfair, especially when the concept of a mog house has absolutely nothing at all to do with attention or maturity level.

johnnypsama wrote:
With FFXI it was like "oh yeah I got my chocobo license!" "i got a new summon!" and you would see 'oh nice job, congrats! awesome'. It's more of an accomplishment to do something in FFXI because of the there is high investment of time and dedication and everyone realized that.

People get a riding license in WoW or Rift just like you do in XI. Again, bad examples to support your claims guys. It isn't more of an accomplishment or dedication because you were patient enough to find something else to do for 5 hours.

johnnypsama wrote:
Both WoW and Rift cater to the new crowd of; I want it now gamers. If they don't get there "just-rewards" instantly then they are not satisfied. It took many hours to get anything done in FFXI and you needed groups of others to help you. That's my spin on it.

WoW and Rift cater to gamers who want accessibility from their games. These games give everyone the opportunity to enjoy (nearly)all of their content and the freedom to pick and choose what they want to experience and when.

I used to appreciate XI; standing in jeuno shouting for half a day for enough interest for a mission or quest, but I had nothing better to do. Now I go to school, I have a job and I have sh*t to do today. It just doesn't fit. Not because I demand more of the games, but because the games demanded too much of me. When I finally did get things done it wasn't accomplishment I felt, it was relief. Games should have experiences you want to relive or repeat. They shouldn't make you say "I can't wait to get this out of the way" or "I'm glad I finally got that behind me"...



That's your opinion and your entitled to it. I disagree with you but you can't change how someone else feels. Having gone through school and now have a FT job it would certainly be much more difficult to play FFXI due to time constraints, I agree on that point.

However your definition of what type of gamer WoW / Rift cater to is the same as mine... they cater to casual 'I want it now' players. The kind who want to log in get something done in 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, etc.

And my example of getting a riding license in FFXI is way more relevant than your opposing argument that you can get them in WoW too. Maybe back in vanilla WoW even TBC it was sort of an accomplishment... but now you have to be level 20, it costs low amount of gold, and probably could do it in half a day. But whatever, I'm done with this... seems like you should just stick to playing WoW with the way you're slamming everything else. Good day sir / ma'am
#35 Aug 05 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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1,636 posts
the chocobo license quest is a poor example to make an argument about accomplishment with. buy 4 things from the AH, turn them in 1 hour apart. win. That is not an achievement. I can understand how some people in FFXI feel like they've accomplished more. Quests aren't any harder, but after 4 hours of traveling around to complete one, I certainly feel like I've done more.

Quote:
However your definition of what type of gamer WoW / Rift cater to is the same as mine... they cater to casual 'I want it now' players. The kind who want to log in get something done in 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, etc.


I think we can stop with generalizations like this. It makes about as much sense as me saying that FFXI caters to people with heart conditions, and those who want to play a game, without overexerting themselves by having to press more than 2 buttons a fight. its insulting and we both know theres only a hint of truth.
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#36 Aug 05 2011 at 12:06 PM Rating: Decent
43 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
the chocobo license quest is a poor example to make an argument about accomplishment with. buy 4 things from the AH, turn them in 1 hour apart. win. That is not an achievement. I can understand how some people in FFXI feel like they've accomplished more. Quests aren't any harder, but after 4 hours of traveling around to complete one, I certainly feel like I've done more.

Quote:
However your definition of what type of gamer WoW / Rift cater to is the same as mine... they cater to casual 'I want it now' players. The kind who want to log in get something done in 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, etc.


I think we can stop with generalizations like this. It makes about as much sense as me saying that FFXI caters to people with heart conditions, and those who want to play a game, without overexerting themselves by having to press more than 2 buttons a fight. its insulting and we both know theres only a hint of truth.



When I say the chocobo quest I guess I should say everything that leads up to getting to it as well; that's my fault. Maybe that's a bad example, but running from Sandy to Jeuno was an accomplishment in itself lol... I guess it seemed like an accomplishment when you look back at level 1 and finding parties at Selbina. Anyway let's stop reflecting on this part.

WoW specifically (I only played RIFT beta) caters to casuals... it's not possible to even deny that. The auto dungeon group finder... very easy and quick daily quests... battlegrounds don't last as long as they used to (remember the glory days of 4-6 hour AV!!) Everything is basically watered down. Every expansion and patch they make the game easier. Well maybe I'm biased but I played since day 2 of release until ICC. I did about everything you can do in that game, gladiator arena, completed raids... it just never felt difficult at all. There was no challenge... it was just ok how fast can we bomb through this? Basically 'know the fight' win.

Maybe FFXI felt like more of an accomplishment because it took much longer, opinion again. But WoW from the last time I played was basically spamming 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 over and over for almost every class.

Anyway I don't want this to turn into a WoW vs. FF argument who can be louder thread (though it has...) I liked WoW when it was tough (vanilla), I liked FFXI while I played, I'm having fun in FFXIV. If you like WoW better, then grats go for it you're entitled to your opinion and I may not agree with you but I defend to the death your right to have it!
#37 Aug 05 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Default
43 posts
This thread is now about Mudkips... discuss
#38 Aug 05 2011 at 12:15 PM Rating: Good
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4,145 posts
johnnypsama wrote:
I disagree with you but you can't change how someone else feels.

That really isn't my intention. I was simply pointing out that Simool's 'opinion' was a baseless generalization.

'13 million people play Rift or WoW because they are either too immature or don't have the attention span necessary to operate player housing'. Seriously?

johnnypsama wrote:
However your definition of what type of gamer WoW / Rift cater to is the same as mine... they cater to casual 'I want it now' players. The kind who want to log in get something done in 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, etc.

Actually no, not at all the same. I'll give you an example...

If you really wanted a ridill in XI your *** was parked in the DA for hours on end at all hours of the day and night for an incredibly small chance at a great piece of gear. Nevermind that the drop rate was crap, that is to be expected, but the fact that you're competing with 10 other linkshells takes your odds down to abyssal levels. World spawn mobs on timers as long as a week, 30 second windows spread over the course of 3 hours, drama, botting and RMT, MPK... I can list way more reasons I should have been doing something else. Some days I could spend 6-8 hours camping various HNMs without even the satisfaction of staining my weapon.

I just want accessibility. I don't want everything served up on a platter, just the opportunity to participate. I don't mind spending hours grinding or camping, running instances or completing objectives. ****, I spent countless hours in that **** hole of drama, death and despair but I never really felt like I was playing a game. It isn't that I don't have more than a small amount of time to play. I just couldn't commit to living by XI's schedule and not my own. It wasn't enjoyable. Other games allow me the accessibility of planning events on my own time.

johnnypsama wrote:
And my example of getting a riding license in FFXI is way more relevant than your opposing argument that you can get them in WoW too.

It wasn't an argument. Travel has been made easier in XI as well as WoW and it's practically effortless in XIV. It'll be even easier with 1.18a coming soon. Why? That is the way it should be. It isn't the focus of the game. Ask anyone and they will agree, standing at a port for 15 minutes waiting on an airship is stupid. That isn't a bash against XI, it's a common sense statement.








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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#39 Aug 05 2011 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Three words "Arc Angel Fight". Finishing that and getting your earing was awesome. My hopes is content like that will someday come to FFXIV we'll just have to wait and see. I tried going back and playing XI but it's just not the same.
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#40 Aug 05 2011 at 12:54 PM Rating: Good
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johnnypsama wrote:
Anyway I don't want this to turn into a WoW vs. FF argument who can be louder thread

FYI this tends to happen when people make generalizations like...
Quote:
Everything is basically watered down.

Easy stuff is supposed to be easy. The point is for you to be able to get through boring and tedious grind so you can participate in raids and pvp, the meat of the game.
Quote:
Every expansion and patch they make the game easier.

Every expansion and/or content patch since BC has taken the top guilds in the world longer to conquer.
Quote:
There was no challenge

IIRC there is still currently only 1 guild in the US and 5 others worldwide who have cleared the current heroic content. 150 people out of nearly 12 million players who are qualified to make the decision whether or not the game is easy. I doubt you are one of them.
Quote:
basically spamming 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 over and over for almost every class

Also hasn't been like that since BC which surprisingly is the people's choice for favorite expansion, go figure.

Judging by those statements it is pretty obvious you haven't played WoW since BC or you are just posting for the sake of posting. For someone who doesn't want to turn this thread into a WoW vs FF argument, you sure are making it hard for yourself. /pose


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#41 Aug 05 2011 at 1:29 PM Rating: Good
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230 posts
johnnypsama wrote:
Shredmastah wrote:
johnnypsama wrote:
Validai wrote:
I felt that nostalgia and tried going back to XI not long ago.. before XIV patch 1.16 I believe.

It's just not the same anymore. With this new Abyssia thing going on, it's a totally different game. FFXI just didn't 'feel' the same as it did all those years ago.

You may have a different experience but I'm personally going to cherish the memories of XI as just that.. memories. FFXIV seems to be catching up fairly quickly now.. I think I can taste the addiction setting in :)


That's what I was afraid of...

And that's one reason I don't want to continue playing FFXIV. Fear that they will release more storyline / missions after I have hit rank 50. I dono, I just miss playing an epic game that was enriched with content, story, and player interaction.

I remember those first couple weeks of FFXI, countless people I passed on my way to the ECO Warrior quest. Endless amount of people in the Dunes searching for parties and replacements... the summoner fights. I'm sad writing this post.

I don't get what your saying.. yo dont want to play XIV because they will add more content after you hit r50? So you would rather hit r50 and then be bored with nothing to do but leves and 2 dungeons? Maybe i am reading wrong but that makes no sense to me.


Hey, I'll try to explain a bit more clearly. So FFXI it seemed like there was quests and storyline / missions from the moment you started the game until the very end and beyond. I'm afraid that if I play FFXIV and rank up to 50 before they add storyline, quests, missions, etc... then I'll miss out on that content. I'd like the content to be a challenge, not a push over that I have to go through just to finish the story.

For example... fighting the dragons in FFXI to get complete the 3rd mission (I think it was the 3rd)... can you imagine if you were level 75+ and had to do that? Seems like it would be just an annoyance running through some low level area, to kill a low level mob just to progress through a storyline that you're essentially no longer in touch with.

My fear is that I will spend a lot of time grinding / doing leves or behest to get to rank 50 then all of this great content like new dungeons or added quests will come out and I'll already be beyond the point where it is useful for me to do that stuff.

Does that make more sense?


Yup gotcha ;) i may have interpreted it better last night if i wasn't drunk haha
#42 Aug 05 2011 at 2:07 PM Rating: Default
43 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
johnnypsama wrote:
Anyway I don't want this to turn into a WoW vs. FF argument who can be louder thread

FYI this tends to happen when people make generalizations like...
Quote:
Everything is basically watered down.

Easy stuff is supposed to be easy. The point is for you to be able to get through boring and tedious grind so you can participate in raids and pvp, the meat of the game.
Quote:
Every expansion and patch they make the game easier.

Every expansion and/or content patch since BC has taken the top guilds in the world longer to conquer.
Quote:
There was no challenge

IIRC there is still currently only 1 guild in the US and 5 others worldwide who have cleared the current heroic content. 150 people out of nearly 12 million players who are qualified to make the decision whether or not the game is easy. I doubt you are one of them.
Quote:
basically spamming 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 over and over for almost every class

Also hasn't been like that since BC which surprisingly is the people's choice for favorite expansion, go figure.

Judging by those statements it is pretty obvious you haven't played WoW since BC or you are just posting for the sake of posting. For someone who doesn't want to turn this thread into a WoW vs FF argument, you sure are making it hard for yourself. /pose







Lmao... WoW content is super easy. I haven't played Cata, I played up until ICC in WOTLK. Sure not everyone can do "hard mode" 25 man heroic get all achievements but the actual content isn't that difficult. It comes down to 2 things; do you have the gear and do you know the fight. There is a top guild ofc... someone has to be #1 but aren't they top guild because of the number of achievements etc.. they've gotten? They are also the ones spending hours and hours the first day of the new content to clear the raid. Someone has to figure out how it's done... then its a piece of cake. Refer to an earlier post I made "once you know the fight, you win". And also it's all about gear in WoW... if you're at the forefront of gear and have all the best stuff when new content is released and you continue to spend every day in new content you'll keep progressing further than other guilds. I dono this just seems stupid to even argue about... someone has to be #1, not sure how that makes the content any harder.

WOTLK was spam 1234 1234 1234... rogue was like that, warlock was like that, mage was like that... dk was like that. But go ahead and deny this. If I was so inclined, there was a blue post about how stale the gameplay was for a lot of classes, I believe they referenced DK being 1 2 3 3 3 1 2 3 3 3 1 2 3 3 3 4 as there combo (something like that) but hey you know more than a developer does. Compare vanilla WoW to current WoW and it's watered down. Everything is made so easy for you... but I guess the fact that Blizz lost 15% of subscriptions means they have more content that takes longer to complete and much more difficult. If anything I've heard more people complain about how lack luster Cata is and it's just recycled raids and etc.. yada yada.

BC was the best expansion... because the game gets worse every expansion... so as to wrap this up... best WoW releases in this order.... VANILLA > BC > WOTLK > CATA.... interesting isn't it.

See me at my level... rawr... forum rage at full power. Now stop posting in here you're trolling.
#43 Aug 05 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Good
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4,145 posts
You're trying to use the obvious as ammunition. It's backfiring on you...

Quote:
There is a top guild ofc... someone has to be #1 but aren't they top guild because of the number of achievements etc.. they've gotten? They are also the ones spending hours and hours the first day of the new content to clear the raid.
I dono this just seems stupid to even argue about... someone has to be #1, not sure how that makes the content any harder.

Actually, considering time spent on the PTR it takes months. 4.2 PTR was up in May and it has taken until the end of July to clear it. A thousandth of a percent of the populace in WoW has cleared current content. That figure doesn't support your claim that 'WoW content is super easy'.
johnnypsama wrote:
Refer to an earlier post I made "once you know the fight, you win".

Since 4.2 there has been a dungeon journal that tells you the specifics about every boss encounter in the new raid. People have the knowledge before they even set foot in the instance and still aren't breezing through it. Explain.
johnnypsama wrote:
If I was so inclined, there was a blue post about how stale the gameplay was for a lot of classes, I believe they referenced DK being 1 2 3 3 3 1 2 3 3 3 1 2 3 3 3 4 as there combo (something like that) but hey you know more than a developer does.

It has always been pretty clear in any game what abilities will result in the most output. They moved away from rotations to priority systems and added talents and abilities that made gameplay more reactive. Certain classes are still considered faceroll, but mechanics of encounters also alter the way you played the game even back then.
johnnypsama wrote:
Compare vanilla WoW to current WoW and it's watered down. Everything is made so easy for you... but I guess the fact that Blizz lost 15% of subscriptions means they have more content that takes longer to complete and much more difficult.

Of course content is old and easy when you compare it to how it was after 25 levels of content have been added. The same is true for XI. RotZ is RotZZzzz now. Why shouldn't old, outdated content be irrelevant when expansions push the cap? Where the **** did you study math? 15% of 12 million is how much? Yeah, they didn't lose that many subs.


For XI, RotZ > Abyssea> CoP > ToaU > WotG

CoP is only as high as it was due to everyone's love for Prishe. Overall it was the biggest failure for XI in terms of expansions; only slightly better than the mini xpacs.

Where did I ever state that having a #1 guild makes content harder, that I was smarter than devs or that Blizz is losing subs because the game is hard?
johnnypsama wrote:
See me at my level... rawr... forum rage at full power.

Knocking down all those straw men make you feel strong johnny? lol






____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#44 Aug 05 2011 at 11:34 PM Rating: Default
43 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
You're trying to use the obvious as ammunition. It's backfiring on you...

Quote:
There is a top guild ofc... someone has to be #1 but aren't they top guild because of the number of achievements etc.. they've gotten? They are also the ones spending hours and hours the first day of the new content to clear the raid.
I dono this just seems stupid to even argue about... someone has to be #1, not sure how that makes the content any harder.

Actually, considering time spent on the PTR it takes months. 4.2 PTR was up in May and it has taken until the end of July to clear it. A thousandth of a percent of the populace in WoW has cleared current content. That figure doesn't support your claim that 'WoW content is super easy'.
johnnypsama wrote:
Refer to an earlier post I made "once you know the fight, you win".

Since 4.2 there has been a dungeon journal that tells you the specifics about every boss encounter in the new raid. People have the knowledge before they even set foot in the instance and still aren't breezing through it. Explain.
johnnypsama wrote:
If I was so inclined, there was a blue post about how stale the gameplay was for a lot of classes, I believe they referenced DK being 1 2 3 3 3 1 2 3 3 3 1 2 3 3 3 4 as there combo (something like that) but hey you know more than a developer does.

It has always been pretty clear in any game what abilities will result in the most output. They moved away from rotations to priority systems and added talents and abilities that made gameplay more reactive. Certain classes are still considered faceroll, but mechanics of encounters also alter the way you played the game even back then.
johnnypsama wrote:
Compare vanilla WoW to current WoW and it's watered down. Everything is made so easy for you... but I guess the fact that Blizz lost 15% of subscriptions means they have more content that takes longer to complete and much more difficult.

Of course content is old and easy when you compare it to how it was after 25 levels of content have been added. The same is true for XI. RotZ is RotZZzzz now. Why shouldn't old, outdated content be irrelevant when expansions push the cap? Where the **** did you study math? 15% of 12 million is how much? Yeah, they didn't lose that many subs.


For XI, RotZ > Abyssea> CoP > ToaU > WotG

CoP is only as high as it was due to everyone's love for Prishe. Overall it was the biggest failure for XI in terms of expansions; only slightly better than the mini xpacs.

Where did I ever state that having a #1 guild makes content harder, that I was smarter than devs or that Blizz is losing subs because the game is hard?
johnnypsama wrote:
See me at my level... rawr... forum rage at full power.

Knocking down all those straw men make you feel strong johnny? lol









I didn't even read your post. You suck. Go play WoW trololol.
#45 Aug 06 2011 at 6:49 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,530 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
IIRC there is still currently only 1 guild in the US and 5 others worldwide who have cleared the current heroic content. 150 people out of nearly 12 million players who are qualified to make the decision whether or not the game is easy. I doubt you are one of them.


Don't worry, it'll be nerfed time and time again soon, like everything else, leaving me wondering what the point of rushing it was in the first place. Anything mildly exclusive is made ridiculously easy a patch or two later.

Furthermore, why does everyone always cite "heroic mode" as the hardcore content? I'm actually curious on this point. Is there any reward for actually doing heroic mode? Do you get exclusive high-quality equipment that actually rewards the extra effort? Or is it just for "bragging rights" and "achievements" (which are themselves just bragging rights)? If it's just for bragging rights, then you may as well not do it; or, you may well brag about doing a dungeon with no equipment, or doing a dungeon with half a party, etc., if it's all the same.

The hardcore content in FFXI needed a good linkshell to get the most awesome rewards. The hardcore content in WoW seems to need a good guild to... well really just access the same stuff any solo player can do if he lets the computer put him in a group and teleport him to an instance.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#46 Aug 06 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Good
***
1,636 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
FilthMcNasty wrote:
IIRC there is still currently only 1 guild in the US and 5 others worldwide who have cleared the current heroic content. 150 people out of nearly 12 million players who are qualified to make the decision whether or not the game is easy. I doubt you are one of them.


Don't worry, it'll be nerfed time and time again soon, like everything else, leaving me wondering what the point of rushing it was in the first place. Anything mildly exclusive is made ridiculously easy a patch or two later.

Furthermore, why does everyone always cite "heroic mode" as the hardcore content? I'm actually curious on this point. Is there any reward for actually doing heroic mode? Do you get exclusive high-quality equipment that actually rewards the extra effort? Or is it just for "bragging rights" and "achievements" (which are themselves just bragging rights)? If it's just for bragging rights, then you may as well not do it; or, you may well brag about doing a dungeon with no equipment, or doing a dungeon with half a party, etc., if it's all the same.

The hardcore content in FFXI needed a good linkshell to get the most awesome rewards. The hardcore content in WoW seems to need a good guild to... well really just access the same stuff any solo player can do if he lets the computer put him in a group and teleport him to an instance.


heroic mode stuff gives your rewards better stats, basically a +1 version.

as far as nerfed content goes, eh I'm not offended by the idea that something I achieved while it was relatively new, is made available for others to experience 3-6 months later. Maybe its different for the FFXI people, who had the same items stay best in slot for such long periods of time and so many sidegrades. It was always clear enough who who was doing progression stuff and challenging content, and who was doing the day to day stuff, so its not even that it was hiding the "elite" players among the riff raff.
____________________________


#47 Aug 07 2011 at 12:34 AM Rating: Good
***
3,530 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
heroic mode stuff gives your rewards better stats, basically a +1 version.


I keep trying to look it up (I don't actually play WoW), and all I can find is an official statement that says:

"Come Cataclysm both 10- and 25-man raids will drop the same loot - or at least the same items. To accommodate for 25-mans being harder to organize and coordinate, bosses defeated by a raid of 25 people will drop "more loot person" - more Justice/Valor Points, and possibly just more items than a 10-man boss would."

So I'm quite confused. Can anyone who currently plays WoW confirm whether heroic modes actually give anything different than normal dungeons? I would like to know once and for all whether I can continue to thumb my nose at the "hardcore" content WoW offers. :P (Unless you who I quoted currently play, in which case I think I have my answer!)
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#48 Aug 07 2011 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
****
4,145 posts
KaneKitty wrote:
Don't worry, it'll be nerfed time and time again soon, like everything else, leaving me wondering what the point of rushing it was in the first place. Anything mildly exclusive is made ridiculously easy a patch or two later.

It's hard for those who enjoy a challenge in raiding. Being the first or one of the first guilds to down heroic content is an achievement for some people. It's strictly for personal satisfaction or bragging rights. Compare to people in XI who would say "I leveled before the exp curve was lowered" "I didn't level up on summoner burns" or "I got my Maat's Cap before abyssea leeches".

It usually gets nerfed for two reasons:

1) Not enough people are able to complete it.
Sometimes developers overtune dungeons. Blizz is moving toward having more frequent content updates so they tune dungeons and raids down so that enough of the population can clear it and get upgrades they need for...

2) New content is coming and they want people to be able to have the soon-to-be-outdated content on farm.
It makes sense to nerf content when you are releasing newer, better items and gear. To be honest, there are many people who are not serious enough about raiding that they will stick around for dozens of wipes trying to learn and improve. For people who don't have that dedication, they lower the difficulty so they can still experience content.

KaneKitty wrote:
Can anyone who currently plays WoW confirm whether heroic modes actually give anything different than normal dungeons? I would like to know once and for all whether I can continue to thumb my nose at the "hardcore" content WoW offers. :P (Unless you who I quoted currently play, in which case I think I have my answer!)

Like KujaKoF said, the gear is basically +1 versions. The same name with the same types of attributes, but the stats are higher. 10man raids drop 2 pieces of loot per boss where 25man raids drop 6 per boss. It's just a better chance at getting loot for taking the time to organize 25 players to complete content.

As for normal and heroic gear, mouse-over and compare the difference of the following links:
Paladin tanking chest:
Normal version
Heroic version

Normal and heroic items drop like they would in any other MMO. Class specific items(above), the equivalent of AF armor in XI, work a bit differently. Throughout the week you accumulate points for clearing instances or raids. These points can be used to buy either the chest, hands or legs pieces of the normal version of class specific gear. To get the other two pieces, head and shoulders, you need to obtain a token from raiding which usually drops from the last two bosses. This token is traded to an NPC for the normal version of head or shoulder gear.

In heroic modes, class specific items don't drop. You instead get a token which you use to upgrade a piece of gear. You have to have the normal version of gear and the token to upgrade it. Similar to how you would get -1 versions of AF2 from CoP dynamis zones that you used to upgrade from AF2 to AF2+1. The difference is that the tokens are cross class. The 10 classes share between 3 different tokens. Probably done this way to avoid getting stuff people won't use.

KaneKitty wrote:
The hardcore content in FFXI needed a good linkshell to get the most awesome rewards. The hardcore content in WoW seems to need a good guild to... well really just access the same stuff any solo player can do if he lets the computer put him in a group and teleport him to an instance.

The difference here is that in WoW you learn to stand up, then you walk and then run. 5man content gears you up for normal versions of 10 and 25 man raids. Normal raids gear you up for heroic versions. Heroic encounters dish out more damage, require you to deal more damage and often have different mechanics. This makes it impossible to complete without following the progression not only because you need gear, but because you need to understand the mechanics and most importantly, be able to execute.

Not a knock on XI, but because of the way the game is setup it is much easier to recover when something is going wrong in an encounter. In XI your alliance typically has some form of reraise buff on them, you have the ability to sleep or otherwise control bosses and the rage timers allow for plenty of raising or kiting if necessary.

Edited, Aug 7th 2011 7:18am by FilthMcNasty
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#49 Aug 07 2011 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
46 posts
I've tried going back to FFXI several times when I get frustrated with FFXIV but each time it only lasts a couple of days.

Like someone else said It is a completely different game with Abyssea. I may be part of the minority, but I miss those 3-4 hour 6 man grinding parties. I did Abyssea for awhile and it's like it took out the sense of people giving a ****. When theres an 18-man alliance folks would go run errands and then come back - but with a 6-person party you have to stay focused and actually participate....

I've tried starting a brand new character but when I get to level 15-20 I realize how far I have to go and then how many of those awful fame quests I have to do and ragequit.

So while I honestly dont think that FFXIV will last very long I'll ride it until the wheels falls off lol
____________________________

#50 Aug 07 2011 at 10:26 AM Rating: Good
****
4,145 posts
dayspringrdm wrote:
I may be part of the minority, but I miss those 3-4 hour 6 man grinding parties. I did Abyssea for awhile and it's like it took out the sense of people giving a sh*t. When theres an 18-man alliance folks would go run errands and then come back - but with a 6-person party you have to stay focused and actually participate...


You still have the option of grinding out exp the hard way, but most people opt for getting 10 times the exp in a fraction of the time. Funny how people stick to their guns in the 'WoW is easy' debate, but the majority probably take the easy route and soak up exp in abyssea.
dayspringrdm wrote:
I've tried starting a brand new character but when I get to level 15-20 I realize how far I have to go and then how many of those awful fame quests I have to do and ragequit.

This really drives home a point I made earlier in this thread. Keep in mind that I played XI for the bigger part of 7 years when I say this...

Most people look back on their experience in XI as something that wasn't really all that enjoyable. I mean sure, we had some great times, but for the most part it was despite the game and not because of it. Players were forced to do things they didn't really want to do but as a result we made some great friends to team up with, people who we respected because they came back to help out or met someone else in our shoes who sympathized with our grind.

Almost everyone I talk to or see post about returning to XI has the exact same issue you have. They have fond memories, they remember the good experiences they had and friendships they made along the way, but when it comes down to it they didn't enjoy it enough to do it again. Replay value{Can I have it?}
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#51 Aug 07 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
88 posts
FilthMcNasty wrote:
Almost everyone I talk to or see post about returning to XI has the exact same issue you have. They have fond memories, they remember the good experiences they had and friendships they made along the way, but when it comes down to it they didn't enjoy it enough to do it again. Replay value{Can I have it?}


What's your point? Should we go set the SE building on fire for this as well or should we just accept the fact that for a wonderful game like FFXI - a game that demands interaction with other human beings, planning and hundreds of hours - the replay value is low?
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