Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2
This Forum is Read Only

AH?Follow

#1 Aug 05 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
20 posts
Pre-ordered the game, played release, quit with plans to come back when they fleshed it out.

Seems it's beginning to shape up, I've read 1.19/1.2 will be good time to check everything out again.



One huge deciding factor still waits bunch of friends and I, have they followed through with the Auction House? Or has there been any word on whether or not they still plan to? Or for that matter any other system than the horrific market wards?
#2 Aug 05 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
523 posts
They said they have no plans to implement it.
#3 Aug 05 2011 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
****
7,106 posts
The market wards have improved from terrible to tolerable. They are still undoubtedly much less efficient and user-friendly than an auction house.

No sign of an auction house. Given everything else that needs improving, the design team probably wants to worry about the remaining terrible stuff before they move on to improving the tolerable stuff.
#4 Aug 05 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
20 posts
DoctorMog wrote:
They said they have no plans to implement it.


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/11012
I was referring to the section titled "Market Areas > Examination of an Auction House"



Caesura wrote:
The market wards have improved from terrible to tolerable. They are still undoubtedly much less efficient and user-friendly than an auction house.

No sign of an auction house. Given everything else that needs improving, the design team probably wants to worry about the remaining terrible stuff before they move on to improving the tolerable stuff.


Thanks for the reply, no offense to any members and not trying to be mean, yet this is exactly why I asked the question ^.^;; Can't stomach the thought of having to "tolerate" something annoying while trying to enjoy free time playing a game you know?

Either way, seems there on the right path, just not quite release material. Back to XI till next time ~!
#5 Aug 05 2011 at 5:13 PM Rating: Decent
***
3,825 posts
TBH You would be fine coming into things now, as much as an AH would streamline things... it's no longer a requirement. The current system isn't overly cumbersome and people are selling good stuff (In Ul'Dah anyway; SPREAD OUT PEOPLE THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE!!!!). If an AH was your only reason, the wards aren't a reason to avoid the game.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#6 Aug 05 2011 at 5:25 PM Rating: Good
Guru
**
691 posts
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
TBH You would be fine coming into things now, as much as an AH would streamline things... it's no longer a requirement. The current system isn't overly cumbersome and people are selling good stuff (In Ul'Dah anyway; SPREAD OUT PEOPLE THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE!!!!). If an AH was your only reason, the wards aren't a reason to avoid the game.

To second this, the game has vastly improved since you've played it, even more-so than the patch notes make it appear. This debate always produces a substantial amount of fist pounding, but the Market Wards really do work now. The amount of time it takes you to purchase an item is 1 minute rather than 20 seconds (FFXI AH), but it's to the point that you really don't even notice it anymore unless you are really set on hating it just for the sake of hating it. An FFXI style AH might be nicer, but at this point, I'm not entirely convinced the difference would be worth the groundbreaking changes to the superstructure of the game it would require.

You already own the game and it's still free to play. No blood lost giving it a shot. The opinions here are pretty mixed, and I'm not sure how good of a read you're going to get on this issue.
#7 Aug 05 2011 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
****
7,106 posts
Quote:
but it's to the point that you really don't even notice it anymore unless you are really set on hating it just for the sake of hating it.

Or if you want to buy high-quality gear.

But I agree that unless you're coming directly from FFXI or another game with a speedy AH, the current system isn't too obviously bad, and it's workable regardless. It's certainly not bad enough to be the only reason to stay away from the game.

Edited, Aug 5th 2011 7:39pm by Caesura
#8 Aug 05 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Excellent
If everyone used the system whereby if you have a piece of +1 gear your retainers price would be 1001, or a +2 piece of gear of the same type would be 1002 then finding the HQ mats/gears are a lot easier. I have been using this method to search and it helps a lot although not everyone is using it still. On a side note I don't think that we should have to do this but it was a little tip I picked up a while ago that I just didn't realise people did. Once I did it made searching for HQ a little bit quicker.
____________________________
Esuna Forums

#9 Aug 05 2011 at 11:47 PM Rating: Excellent
****
7,106 posts
The minimal value of hq gear (or food, or stats...) admittedly makes not being able to search casually for it not much of a big deal. It's laughable, though, that the players would even have to invent a clever work-around for something as basic as determining if anyone is trying to sell the item you are trying to buy.

The dead horse is long-since a pulverized pile of horse-shaped dust, but I'll just never understand what the original designers were thinking with some of the game mechanics. Anyone who had ever played an MMO would have seen these difficulties coming. They must really have thought that graphics would be all that mattered.
#10 Aug 06 2011 at 12:14 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
Caesura wrote:
The dead horse is long-since a pulverized pile of horse-shaped dust, but I'll just never understand what the original designers were thinking with some of the game mechanics. Anyone who had ever played an MMO would have seen these difficulties coming. They must really have thought that graphics would be all that mattered.


I try not to think about it anymore.

Oh, it wasn't always this way. Like many others, I thought about the decisions SE made often during the weeks following release, but I think it was having a deleterious effect on my mental state. Now, when the FFXIV development team enters my thoughts, I always drive any analysis of their plans away as soon as possible. Even when this happens, however, it's as though the idea grips my brain's very dendrites and holds them, frozen, for about ten silent seconds.

Ten seconds as I sit there staring; ten seconds as I fruitlessly grapple with the design choices that made it to release...
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#11 Aug 06 2011 at 6:12 AM Rating: Default
**
697 posts
What would be your primary focus, buying or selling?
Buying stuff using wards requires about the same amount of effort as the AH from WoW. Basically, find your item, run to the retainer with a red star above their head, and buy. In WoW you have to run to a mailbox after buying your item, so its the same effort. Selling, on the other hand, can be a bit tedious. Again though, at least there are searchable wards now, so you can get a good idea of a price to sell items at before posting them.
____________________________
FFXI: Odin - Merylstryfe Summoner Woo Hoo!


#12 Aug 06 2011 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
MerylStryfe wrote:
Buying stuff using wards requires about the same amount of effort as the AH from WoW. Basically, find your item, run to the retainer with a red star above their head, and buy. In WoW you have to run to a mailbox after buying your item, so its the same effort.


Look, I don't like WoW, but I also don't like misinformation, either.

Let's say I need to buy ten different items: a weapon, various pieces of armour, and some crafting materials and consumables. In WoW I can search for them (by name, level, or class if I wish), sort a huge list (that compiles every major faction city), click "Buy the item" on each item, and walk to the mailbox located directly behind me (about two seconds away at most) to pick up every item that I just ordered.

It took me a couple minutes to search, and a couple seconds to pick up everything.

Now let's say I need to buy ten different items: a weapon, various pieces of armour, and some crafting materials and consumables again. In FFXIV I can kind of search for the item, but the list is more unwieldy than it needs to be. I search for the first item, place a star over the proper retainer, zone to the proper place, find the retainer, and buy their item. That's one item finished. I now have to run back to the edge of the ward and repeat the process nine more times, with walking, zoning, load times, and manual price-comparing in between.

It took me about ten minutes to search, and about ten minutes to zone throughout the wards manually comparing prices, walking to the right people and buying their items (assuming they weren't overpriced). Who knows if others were selling the item in different wards... I can't really search for that.

In short, the market wards are nowhere near "the same effort" as a simple FFXI/WoW-style auction house and mailbox/delivery system. Wards do mostly the same things, yes, eventually, but they do them in one of the most laggy, inefficient, and convoluted ways conceivable. It takes significantly more time, too.
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#13 Aug 06 2011 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
TBH You would be fine coming into things now, as much as an AH would streamline things... it's no longer a requirement. The current system isn't overly cumbersome and people are selling good stuff (In Ul'Dah anyway; SPREAD OUT PEOPLE THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE!!!!). If an AH was your only reason, the wards aren't a reason to avoid the game.


While your optimism toward encouraging others to keep at it is refreshing, I have to politely disagree. The Wards are still awful and do take away from many people's enjoyment of the game. People like me, who typically enjoy MMOs for the economy above all else, are having a hard time becoming immersed in FFXIV's methodology for player-driven markets and we simply aren't logging in, nor would I maintain an active subscription for this game given the state of the economy.

But that's OK - perhaps this isn't the game for me and/or this is the intended direction the developers want to take. Not everything is going to be the perfect experience for everyone and if others are enjoying it as is it's not my place to demand or argue for change, but I still maintain and argue that the Wards are just far too cumbersome for both buyer and seller as someone who plays mainly from an economical standpoint.


Edited, Aug 6th 2011 4:46pm by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#14 Aug 06 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Excellent
*
230 posts
Wards still suck. They have improved a bit with the search function and overall stability but come on.. How can anyone think they are better than an AH? Almost everything about them is worse..

-It takes 2-3x as long to get in and out.

-Your entire profit from your retainer relies on the hope the wards dont crash(not sure if this still happens all the time as i don't play often but i have to reset mine almost every time i log in)

-It will always be laggier then an AH because you have to navigate through the endless spawn of retainers. Its just messy in comparison.

-Sometimes you cant even spawn your retainer in the correct area because theres no room. Sure thats probably because I was in Uldah but eventually the population will grow and it will just be like that in all cities. Then what? Just keep expanding them until its a huge pile of chocobo poo? Bigger pile than it is now i mean.

Not only that but i liked seeing people crowded around the AH in FFXI. The first time i walked through Jeuno i was amazed at how many players were at the AH. It was wonderful. When your in the wards it just feels so lifeless and dull. Something about zombie-like npcs spawning all around you just seems dumb to me. About the only thing i like with the wards, is that my PC plays the game 10x better in such a small area.

AH: 1
Wards: 0
#15 Aug 06 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
Avatar
**
560 posts
My biggest problem with the Market wards is how the price list for an item only lists the cheapest 20 of any item so if 33 people list the item you dont see the prices for the last 13. The only reason this is an issue for me is because generally people charge more for the HQ version of an item which means in my senario if 10 of the items were HQ and were the 10 most expensive of the type of item they wouldnt even make it on the list.So I would have to zone into every single ward and run from one end to the other to check for the HQ version of the item. That takes about 15 minutes.
____________________________


#16 Aug 07 2011 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Unless the wards have gotten some ninja fixes in 1.18, the search function needs a ton of work to not be terrible. Simple features like filters, job highlighting, sorting, text search, etc. are all missing. The menu hierarchy for armor in particular is terrible as well, but that's in part because of the lack of all of the previous features.

Anyone who claims that the wards are fine now has been playing way too much and is used to jumping through the hoops to get it to work. From a fresh pair of eyes, the system blows.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#17 Aug 07 2011 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,825 posts
bsphil wrote:
Anyone who claims that the wards are fine now has been playing way too much and is used to jumping through the hoops to get it to work. From a fresh pair of eyes, the system blows.


Once again, the current system is not ideal BUT it's no longer a solid bar to enjoyment of the game (unless as someone else stated, your sole purpose in MMOs is to play the economy game). Yes it has a lot of missing features, yes it's not as butter smooth nor easy as a typical AH. However you can generally get what you need with a minimal ammount of effort compared to massive effort with no result of the previous system.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#18 Aug 08 2011 at 4:12 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
Is the wards system perfect, no ... pure and simple. But saying that it blows, is crap, impossible and so on so forth is plain exageration as well.

Personally i just compare the wards to a super market or a local shop while the other AH systems are like buying online.

Of couse buying online takes less time, it's easier but the majority of people still goes to super markets, have done so for ages and will do so for the next decade for sure if not longer...
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#19 Aug 08 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Hugus wrote:
Of couse buying online takes less time, it's easier but the majority of people still goes to super markets, have done so for ages and will do so for the next decade for sure if not longer...
But only because people are stubborn and hate change, not for any legitimate reasons.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#20 Aug 08 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
Avatar
***
1,449 posts
bsphil wrote:
Hugus wrote:
Of couse buying online takes less time, it's easier but the majority of people still goes to super markets, have done so for ages and will do so for the next decade for sure if not longer...
But only because people are stubborn and hate change, not for any legitimate reasons.


Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not saying that online shopping or in game HA are not handier that super markets or retainer wards but we can easilly live with both.*

* Making it easy to diferentiate HQ versions from NQs when searching wards would, in my opinion, make the current system work as needed.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 2:13pm by Hugus
____________________________


My FFXIV Blog



#21 Aug 08 2011 at 9:30 AM Rating: Decent
***
3,825 posts
Hugus wrote:
* Making it easy to diferentiate HQ versions from NQs when searching wards would, in my opinion, make the current system work as needed.


Providing comparisons before actually looking at the retainer AND making it obvious which areas to search under for given gear are my musts before I fully defend the system.

Still haven't figured out why it's so hard.

Head
Arm
Hand
Weapon
etc... for searching. Sure keep the current wards for listing if they want though there should really only be a high and low tier, the current system of 3 tier is pointless as most folks will only be looking for mid 20s gear and 40+ gear because everything else you might as well just wear regardless of current rank.
____________________________
FFXI:Sylph - Perrin 75 Hume THF; Retired (At least from my use any way)
EVE Online:ScraperX; Retired
WAR:IronClaw- Peryn SW;SkullThrone- Grymloc BO; Retired


#22 Aug 08 2011 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,017 posts
The market wards are a hastle... I wont ever give money to FFXIV unless they add a really good AH. When they start to charge mo if they havent added an AH by then ill just stop playing all together.
____________________________
-Character Name: Djinnrb (old)
-Server: CaitSith
-Jobs:BLU75 BRD75 THF67 PLD 44 DRG 44 DNC39 NIN37
----------------------------------
-Character Name: Lightpalm
-Asura
-Jobs: WAR54 WHM53 RNG35 SAM70 RUN70
----------------------------------


http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/FFXIV_Leveling_Guide

Mithsavvy wrote:
Everything Square Enix does puts out a vibe that says, "I was programmed by someone who read C++ for Dummies after obtaining my degree in MIS"
#23 Aug 08 2011 at 11:57 AM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
534 posts
DjinnRB wrote:
The market wards are a hastle... I wont ever give money to FFXIV unless they add a really good AH. When they start to charge mo if they havent added an AH by then ill just stop playing all together.


Ditto

I would imagine they already have an AH ready to go, but they know the small amount current players are not really quitting because of the economy. Most current players have learned to deal with what they have. They will pull out the "AH" card when they have some other massive changes to go with it to help motivate those who stopped playing to come back, and actually pay to play soon afterwards. PS3 release date will probably be announced at about the same time. Sometime between patches 1.20 and 1.21 I would hope.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#24 Aug 08 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Simool wrote:
DjinnRB wrote:
The market wards are a hastle... I wont ever give money to FFXIV unless they add a really good AH. When they start to charge mo if they havent added an AH by then ill just stop playing all together.


Ditto

I would imagine they already have an AH ready to go, but they know the small amount current players are not really quitting because of the economy. Most current players have learned to deal with what they have. They will pull out the "AH" card when they have some other massive changes to go with it to help motivate those who stopped playing to come back, and actually pay to play soon afterwards. PS3 release date will probably be announced at about the same time. Sometime between patches 1.20 and 1.21 I would hope.
This sounds like it's from the same vein as "don't worry guys, they have a separate client that will be so much better when open beta ends and the game goes live."
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#25 Aug 08 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Default
18 posts
OPINION incoming:

Meh, I don't get the Market Ward grief. It works fine for me. I do a lot of buying and selling (from mats to crafted gear) and speaking to vendors adds to my immersion. After a while you figure out the prices and standard rates for items. Old school MMOers rant and rave about SWG and in that system sometimes you had to go to an cross an entire planet to get your goods from a private shop, which you had no way of "searching" at all.

People want more immersion, they want housing and private shops, then they cry at any innovation that's closer to that dynamic. The system is designed so you think more carefully, and do less "on a whim." I appreciate the playstyle and variety it offers. They've done enough to westernize the game (auto-attack, quest revisions), play it or don't. Don't even get me started on auto-attack. "Oh I don't want to spam 1-1-1-1..." Like you do in every action game? Oh sorry, instead of 1 it's a controller button or a mouse-click in those. I see now.

Sorry I got off track.

Anyway, don't try to argue or tell me I'm wrong (of course you can say you disagree), it's how I feel. I like it, and I respect that people don't. I wish more people would have my outlook, is all.
#26 Aug 08 2011 at 12:55 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
**
569 posts
DjinnRB wrote:
The market wards are a hastle... I wont ever give money to FFXIV unless they add a really good AH. When they start to charge mo if they havent added an AH by then ill just stop playing all together.


If having an AH or not, is the single most important thing to you, you might as well go and uninstall now.. SE is not adding AH period, reason being is that it's every easy to manipulate the economy. Simple as that.

SE learned from there mistake in XI, and i doubt they will repeat it again. They knew the AH system would give some people more pull than others. That is why in XIV an they will keep wards, and simply tweak the search system, increase stability, retainer capasity, exe.
____________________________
99th paper cut, and the grain of salt.
#27 Aug 08 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
DjinnRB wrote:
The market wards are a hastle... I wont ever give money to FFXIV unless they add a really good AH. When they start to charge mo if they havent added an AH by then ill just stop playing all together.


If having an AH or not, is the single most important thing to you, you might as well go and uninstall now.. SE is not adding AH period, reason being is that it's every easy to manipulate the economy. Simple as that.

SE learned from there mistake in XI, and i doubt they will repeat it again. They knew the AH system would give some people more pull than others. That is why in XIV an they will keep wards, and simply tweak the search system, increase stability, retainer capasity, exe.


This... is..

SE didn't "learn their mistake," because quite frankly, they use NOTHING they learned from FFXI in the creation of FFXIV, as evidenced by all the great features they did not carry from FFXI.

An auction house is not easy to manipulate, and I argue that this system is VASTLY easier to abuse. Just look at the wards pricing system and tell me there is any semblance of supply and demand, or evern something close to a working economy.

****, I have 4 Million gil and I stopped playing for 5 months, and haven't sold jack since I came back because the system is so cumbersome that I flat out refuse to go to the item search counter, find the price of something, then go to my retainer and sell it.

Here are the exploitable faults in the retainer system:

-Sales are completely anonymous, sold through a fence, laundered even.
-There is no sale history. Once it's sold, it's gone and if no one is selling it, you have no reference point for price.
-You only see 20 items.

What are the faults of an AH?

-People cry about undercutting.
-People can manipulate the sale history with some leg work.

Well guess what? Both of those faults exist in the retainer system. Much less leg work is required in manipulating sale price because there is no history. If they just retained all sale history for an item (or in FFXI, if you just checked FFXIAH.com) it would be clear someone was manipulating the history.

But I agree, it's not enough to be a bar to my playing enjoyment, I just don't sell items.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 4:20pm by Louiscool
____________________________


#28 Aug 08 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,017 posts
Louiscool wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
DjinnRB wrote:
The market wards are a hastle... I wont ever give money to FFXIV unless they add a really good AH. When they start to charge mo if they havent added an AH by then ill just stop playing all together.


If having an AH or not, is the single most important thing to you, you might as well go and uninstall now.. SE is not adding AH period, reason being is that it's every easy to manipulate the economy. Simple as that.

SE learned from there mistake in XI, and i doubt they will repeat it again. They knew the AH system would give some people more pull than others. That is why in XIV an they will keep wards, and simply tweak the search system, increase stability, retainer capasity, exe.


This... is..

SE didn't "learn their mistake," because quite frankly, they use NOTHING they learned from FFXI in the creation of FFXIV, as evidenced by all the great features they did not carry from FFXI.

An auction house is not easy to manipulate, and I argue that this system is VASTLY easier to abuse. Just look at the wards pricing system and tell me there is any semblance of supply and demand, or evern something close to a working economy.

****, I have 4 Million gil and I stopped playing for 5 months, and haven't sold jack since I came back because the system is so cumbersome that I flat out refuse to go to the item search counter, find the price of something, then go to my retainer and sell it.

Here are the exploitable faults in the retainer system:

-Sales are completely anonymous, sold through a fence, laundered even.
-There is no sale history. Once it's sold, it's gone and if no one is selling it, you have no reference point for price.
-You only see 20 items.

What are the faults of an AH?

-People cry about undercutting.
-People can manipulate the sale history with some leg work.

Well guess what? Both of those faults exist in the retainer system. Much less leg work is required in manipulating sale price because there is no history. If they just retained all sale history for an item (or in FFXI, if you just checked FFXIAH.com) it would be clear someone was manipulating the history.

But I agree, it's not enough to be a bar to my playing enjoyment, I just don't sell items.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 4:20pm by Louiscool


im in the same boat... Made 5 mil before I quit for a few months. came back and I dont like the market ward. I havent sold a **** thing and not because I cant but because I dont want to deal with the **** that is market ward.
____________________________
-Character Name: Djinnrb (old)
-Server: CaitSith
-Jobs:BLU75 BRD75 THF67 PLD 44 DRG 44 DNC39 NIN37
----------------------------------
-Character Name: Lightpalm
-Asura
-Jobs: WAR54 WHM53 RNG35 SAM70 RUN70
----------------------------------


http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/FFXIV_Leveling_Guide

Mithsavvy wrote:
Everything Square Enix does puts out a vibe that says, "I was programmed by someone who read C++ for Dummies after obtaining my degree in MIS"
#29 Aug 08 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
Yeah the current system is putting such a huge damper on the economy. Its a big problem too, because this game is set up to rely so much on economy. Crafted items all take so many items from other crafts. If it were set up like WoW where crafted items just require gathered materials from one gathering profession it wouldn't be nearly the problem, but that's not the case at all.

Its set up so if there was a good easy to use economy, the crafting system and therefore gear for leveling system would be excellent. If there is not, it's a huge obstacle to every aspect of the game.

I really do believe that simply implementing a good easy to use auction house would turn this game around so so much. On the other hand, the way it is now is the main thing that makes me think this won't be my MMO.
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#30 Aug 08 2011 at 4:02 PM Rating: Default
Avatar
**
569 posts
You rated my post down, but that changes little to the fact that SE wants a damper on the economy. If you recall in XI the AH was the reason many people could get away with cornering and abusing an open system. Everyone here has at some point in time bought the last for item X and reposed it for x1.5 the cost to make profit. It seems insignificant initially, but still enough for it to be against the ToA in XI. The wards are what separate XIV from the cookie cuter, considering people want a "different" game why cry to go back to the mold?
____________________________
99th paper cut, and the grain of salt.
#31 Aug 08 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
You rated my post down, but that changes little to the fact that SE wants a damper on the economy. If you recall in XI the AH was the reason many people could get away with cornering and abusing an open system. Everyone here has at some point in time bought the last for item X and reposed it for x1.5 the cost to make profit. It seems insignificant initially, but still enough for it to be against the ToA in XI. The wards are what separate XIV from the cookie cuter, considering people want a "different" game why cry to go back to the mold?


Your argument does little to change the fact that you are wrong. You're saying EVERYONE here has bought the last item on the AH in ffxi and then put it back up for more? Your time with FFXI must have been limited because the people who did that got undercut very easily.

I know, because I used spreadsheets to manage profitability of my synths in FFXI, and I love to undercut...

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 6:29pm by Louiscool
____________________________


#32 Aug 08 2011 at 4:36 PM Rating: Excellent
TwiddleDee wrote:
You rated my post down, but that changes little to the fact that SE wants a damper on the economy. If you recall in XI the AH was the reason many people could get away with cornering and abusing an open system. Everyone here has at some point in time bought the last for item X and reposed it for x1.5 the cost to make profit. It seems insignificant initially, but still enough for it to be against the ToA in XI. The wards are what separate XIV from the cookie cuter, considering people want a "different" game why cry to go back to the mold?



Not sure who you think rated you down.

Yes, people reposted things for higher. That's called economy. If it was the last thing, and you gain it, you have a monopoly on it. The supply is low, if the demand is high, the price goes up. What you did was a basic part of economics. This also is incentive for people to make and sell more of them now that they are profitable to make and sell, raising supply and eventually causing the price to go down again. This is a very basic part of a market. I don't think such a thing was or should be against the ToS.
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#33 Aug 08 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
lthompson wrote:
People want more immersion, they want housing and private shops, then they cry at any innovation that's closer to that dynamic.
Well, I'm pretty sure different groups of people would be complaining in that case. I don't really care about immersion at the marketplace, but there are still ways that it could've been done far better while still maintaining immersion. Assuming otherwise is just showing a lack of creativity and critical thinking skills.

Poor organization in the menus and a lack of filters/sorting/string searches isn't really related to immersion though. That's just crappy, lazy design; something that is still found all over the game.

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 5:51pm by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#34 Aug 08 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,017 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
You rated my post down, but that changes little to the fact that SE wants a damper on the economy. If you recall in XI the AH was the reason many people could get away with cornering and abusing an open system. Everyone here has at some point in time bought the last for item X and reposed it for x1.5 the cost to make profit. It seems insignificant initially, but still enough for it to be against the ToA in XI. The wards are what separate XIV from the cookie cuter, considering people want a "different" game why cry to go back to the mold?



Thats a big part of the game for alot of people. Me personally I love to play the AH game where I buy low and sell high. I do that for a few days or weeks until I have enough money to last me a while then I go play other parts of the game. Why take that part of the game out? its called balance for a reason. You cant expect ppl to play to a broken onesided game. specially if people have different play styles.
____________________________
-Character Name: Djinnrb (old)
-Server: CaitSith
-Jobs:BLU75 BRD75 THF67 PLD 44 DRG 44 DNC39 NIN37
----------------------------------
-Character Name: Lightpalm
-Asura
-Jobs: WAR54 WHM53 RNG35 SAM70 RUN70
----------------------------------


http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/FFXIV_Leveling_Guide

Mithsavvy wrote:
Everything Square Enix does puts out a vibe that says, "I was programmed by someone who read C++ for Dummies after obtaining my degree in MIS"
#35lthompson, Posted: Aug 08 2011 at 6:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) How is it poorly organized? You go to the search counter, find the section you want, and search. Then you go buy your stuff. It's the same search that's in FFXI basically, sans the going to the vendor.
#36 Aug 08 2011 at 6:55 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
lthompson wrote:
How is it poorly organized? You go to the search counter, find the section you want, and search. Then you go buy your stuff. It's the same search that's in FFXI basically, sans the going to the vendor.
Because there are different tiers for armor based on an unspecified level, and another category for another type of unspecified armor. That's 4 categories that should be 1, but only because of the lack of available sorting/filtering options. Bad design is bad design even if you get used to it.

lthompson wrote:
And I like how you attempted a sneak shot at my "imagination" and "critical thinking skills." Maybe there is a better way. They did it THIS way. And this way is fine. Maybe one day when you design a market system in a game, you can put them all to shame with your awesome imagination and critical thinking skills.
That was moreso directed at SE's inability to come up with a way to make a powerful, user-friendly interface. I don't really care if you can or cannot come up with any better ideas if you're not the one implementing them. I could have been clearer though.

lthompson wrote:
But I'm sure any exchange with you is pointless, seeing how you have 21,000 posts on a practically dead forum.
As it turns out, forum=152 isn't the only forum on this site. lol @ post counts.



Edited, Aug 8th 2011 7:56pm by bsphil
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#37 Aug 08 2011 at 7:08 PM Rating: Good
*
137 posts
A few months away from its one year release date and FFXIV is still a colossal failure. This is a reminder for all those people defending this horrid market ward. The AH was and is a huge selling point to why many people won't touch this game. The ward worked, has always worked but that doesn't mean it isn't a crappy way of buying and selling. It is just one of many faults with FFXIV. Instead of fixing this mistake they are trying to band-aid it and keep with the arrogance that they know what people like instead of actually listening to what people are telling them.
#38 Aug 08 2011 at 8:26 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
562 posts
doubleax wrote:
The AH was and is a huge selling point to why many people won't touch this game.


This needs to be recognized more. There have been quite a few opinions expressed as to people's enjoyment of the current system - which is completely fine. But this game will not survive if it does not maintain a certain threshold in regard to monthly subscription numbers, and part of that marketing comes from how the gaming population perceives your economic system and its ease of use. The Wards don't exactly have the most positive perception among MMORPG players right now, I'm afraid, and this can only hurt FFXIV in the long run.

And if you think obscurity, unique systems simply to be different and having your game be the antithesis of popular is good for a subscription-based MMO, well then you're a bit on the delusional side.

If the difference between having an Auction House or not is 100,000 active players, then we need an Auction House right now. ****, if it's as low as 10,000 it's completely worth it at this point - the game simply needs as many changes as necessary to ensure a healthy number of active players.


Edited, Aug 8th 2011 10:31pm by Whales
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#39 Aug 08 2011 at 8:30 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Whales wrote:
doubleax wrote:
The AH was and is a huge selling point to why many people won't touch this game.
This needs to be recognized more. There have been quite a few opinions expressed as to people's enjoyment of the current system - which is completely fine. But this game will not survive if it does not a certain threshold in regard to monthly subscription numbers, and part of that marketing comes from how the gaming population perceives your economic system and its ease of use.
I'm not shocked that the few people who play the game regularly still are the ones that put up with the Market Wards.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#40 Aug 09 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
569 posts
Louiscool wrote:

Your argument does little to change the fact that you are wrong. You're saying EVERYONE here has bought the last item on the AH in ffxi and then put it back up for more? Your time with FFXI must have been limited because the people who did that got undercut very easily.

I know, because I used spreadsheets to manage profitability of my synths in FFXI, and I love to undercut...

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 6:29pm by Louiscool


If 9 years is limited, i guess i didn't get the full picture. Though in that time frame i did see the positives and negatives on an AH. I am not saying it's good or bad, just commenting on the "why" SE is in no rush to implement it.
As is SE will first try to shape the game to the people that were willing to pay day 1, before it makes any changes for the rest. Just like any business, need to take care of the constant clients, before the drop in's who may or may not return.
____________________________
99th paper cut, and the grain of salt.
#41 Aug 09 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
TwiddleDee wrote:
Louiscool wrote:

Your argument does little to change the fact that you are wrong. You're saying EVERYONE here has bought the last item on the AH in ffxi and then put it back up for more? Your time with FFXI must have been limited because the people who did that got undercut very easily.

I know, because I used spreadsheets to manage profitability of my synths in FFXI, and I love to undercut...

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 6:29pm by Louiscool


If 9 years is limited, i guess i didn't get the full picture. Though in that time frame i did see the positives and negatives on an AH. I am not saying it's good or bad, just commenting on the "why" SE is in no rush to implement it.
As is SE will first try to shape the game to the people that were willing to pay day 1, before it makes any changes for the rest. Just like any business, need to take care of the constant clients, before the drop in's who may or may not return.


Do you think having a working economy would cause the current players to leave?
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#42 Aug 09 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Excellent
*
52 posts
The problem with market wards is the same problem with FFXIV: everything takes too long to do. Things that should take .2 seconds take 3-5 seconds. Things that should take 20 seconds take 2-5 minutes. It's even worse if you log out of WoW and log into FFXIV. When you hit your key-bind in WoW your comand executes right now. It doesn't think about it for a second and then blink and then maybe execute but you still have to double check to make sure.

The other problem is there are so many different items in FFXIV and all of those items are multiplied by 4 because of NQ, +1, +2 and +3. So your bags fill up with so many unique items, you have to have an easy and quick way to deal with it all. Here is where you really need a smoothe and effective AH. Sadly it just takes way to long to try and sell stuff in the market wards.

I always end up just vendoring stuff that I know I'd rather keep for later or sell on the AH, but I don't have time to waste sorting out inventory. I quit the game last year because of no AH and poor item storage, more than for any other reason.

(Now I'm back and feel like I'm playing a beta that I'll get to keep my character when the game goes live, if it's worth paying for at that point.)
____________________________


#43 Aug 09 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
Louiscool wrote:

Your argument does little to change the fact that you are wrong. You're saying EVERYONE here has bought the last item on the AH in ffxi and then put it back up for more? Your time with FFXI must have been limited because the people who did that got undercut very easily.

I know, because I used spreadsheets to manage profitability of my synths in FFXI, and I love to undercut...

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 6:29pm by Louiscool


If 9 years is limited, i guess i didn't get the full picture. Though in that time frame i did see the positives and negatives on an AH. I am not saying it's good or bad, just commenting on the "why" SE is in no rush to implement it.
As is SE will first try to shape the game to the people that were willing to pay day 1, before it makes any changes for the rest. Just like any business, need to take care of the constant clients, before the drop in's who may or may not return.


I agree with you on this point.

It should not be the most important change or fix. I'm currently having fun with this game, but I'm ignoring the retainers, wards, crafting, and gathering.

But saying they don't need to change it... that's ignorance. I don't doubt it's on the list though, and I wouldn't be dissapointed if they added an AH in one of the future patches. Right now, crafters suffer from lack of materials because myslef and everyone I know NPC sell all those materials instead of selling them to crafters.

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 10:58am by Louiscool
____________________________


#44 Aug 09 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
569 posts
digitalcraft wrote:

Do you think having a working economy would cause the current players to leave?


I do agree that a working economy would be beneficial, and it would help the game monumentally. However were my thoughts differ is that i still think that refining wards, would be more beneficial than an AH. People that sell crafting items to NPC rather than Wards, will keep dung it even with an ah.
-Referencing the ffxi ah, unless you had a stack of item X you would keep till you do, or npc as well limited to 7 items, limited time on ah, and a fee that is payed every post of an item.
-In xiv with wards you can post item X regardless if you have 1 or 98 of stack, time is not limited (unless crash), only pay fee/tax if item sells, and you are not limited to 7 items.
Only edge an ah will have is more convenience.. unless am over looking something that is how thing appear to me.
____________________________
99th paper cut, and the grain of salt.
#45 Aug 09 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
3,599 posts
Taxes are a great gill sink though. This game has... None.

So yes, we need gil sinks, which airship sand chocobos will take care of, maybe. Otherwise, we keep this rampant inflation.

So how would you make retainers more convenient? Be able to purchase form the item search counter? Guess what, that makes physical retainers pointless. Seriously, it was never a good idea to make people run around to bazaaring npcs. Maybe you remember Rolanberry Market?

It was a bunch of players selling items unsellable on the AH and it was archaic, from 9 years ago. So they took that terrible system and made the the main economic vehicle in FFXIV. It's stupid and needs to go.
____________________________


#46 Aug 09 2011 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
digitalcraft wrote:

Do you think having a working economy would cause the current players to leave?


I do agree that a working economy would be beneficial, and it would help the game monumentally. However were my thoughts differ is that i still think that refining wards, would be more beneficial than an AH. People that sell crafting items to NPC rather than Wards, will keep dung it even with an ah.
-Referencing the ffxi ah, unless you had a stack of item X you would keep till you do, or npc as well limited to 7 items, limited time on ah, and a fee that is payed every post of an item.
-In xiv with wards you can post item X regardless if you have 1 or 98 of stack, time is not limited (unless crash), only pay fee/tax if item sells, and you are not limited to 7 items.
Only edge an ah will have is more convenience.. unless am over looking something that is how thing appear to me.


the FFXI AH is terrible. We all are pretty aware of that. The debate isn't FFXI AH or Wards, both are stupid and I want nothing to do with either. I want one of those slick easy to use database/ebay style AHs other games have that allow you to put up any number of items, in any stack size, charge what I want, and as a buyer, see every product up for sale in easy to understand categories and search parameters.
____________________________


#47 Aug 09 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
digitalcraft wrote:

Do you think having a working economy would cause the current players to leave?


I do agree that a working economy would be beneficial, and it would help the game monumentally. However were my thoughts differ is that i still think that refining wards, would be more beneficial than an AH. People that sell crafting items to NPC rather than Wards, will keep dung it even with an ah.
-Referencing the ffxi ah, unless you had a stack of item X you would keep till you do, or npc as well limited to 7 items, limited time on ah, and a fee that is payed every post of an item.
-In xiv with wards you can post item X regardless if you have 1 or 98 of stack, time is not limited (unless crash), only pay fee/tax if item sells, and you are not limited to 7 items.
Only edge an ah will have is more convenience.. unless am over looking something that is how thing appear to me.
the FFXI AH is terrible. We all are pretty aware of that. The debate isn't FFXI AH or Wards, both are stupid and I want nothing to do with either. I want one of those slick easy to use database/ebay style AHs other games have that allow you to put up any number of items, in any stack size, charge what I want, and as a buyer, see every product up for sale in easy to understand categories and search parameters.
I don't think anyone actually wants a copy of the FFXI AH. What we've always wanted is for SE to take the concept behind the FFXI AH and improve it. For as many problems as it has, it's still better than the wards are right now.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#48 Aug 09 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
569 posts
KujaKoF wrote:

the FFXI AH is terrible. We all are pretty aware of that. The debate isn't FFXI AH or Wards, both are stupid and I want nothing to do with either. I want one of those slick easy to use database/ebay style AHs other games have that allow you to put up any number of items, in any stack size, charge what I want, and as a buyer, see every product up for sale in easy to understand categories and search parameters.


That sounds like the rift AH, and using that as a beginning step would not be frowned on. Unfortunately i don't see that making the head lines soon, if ever. There's just to much in the pipes to fix the game, as is SE has control. Till all other area's are fixed i doubt they will want to loosen said control.
____________________________
99th paper cut, and the grain of salt.
#49 Aug 09 2011 at 10:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
534 posts
TwiddleDee wrote:
Louiscool wrote:

Your argument does little to change the fact that you are wrong. You're saying EVERYONE here has bought the last item on the AH in ffxi and then put it back up for more? Your time with FFXI must have been limited because the people who did that got undercut very easily.

I know, because I used spreadsheets to manage profitability of my synths in FFXI, and I love to undercut...

Edited, Aug 8th 2011 6:29pm by Louiscool


If 9 years is limited, i guess i didn't get the full picture. Though in that time frame i did see the positives and negatives on an AH. I am not saying it's good or bad, just commenting on the "why" SE is in no rush to implement it.
As is SE will first try to shape the game to the people that were willing to pay day 1, before it makes any changes for the rest. Just like any business, need to take care of the constant clients, before the drop in's who may or may not return.


That would be a failed business plan to target the current players and worry about others later. The current base is not large enough to support the game if they started to charge and depended on those numbers alone. Yoshi was brought in to change the game and to market it to those who left, those who read the reviews and never played, and most importantly to PS3 owners on the fence waiting to see if the game will be worthwhile buying the game and paying a monthly fee.

Those of us playing for free right now are still beta testers who happened to have paid for the game.

Some form of an AH is big piece that has to and will be addressed.
____________________________
Amos Fin - Ultros

#50 Aug 09 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,017 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
TwiddleDee wrote:
digitalcraft wrote:

Do you think having a working economy would cause the current players to leave?


I do agree that a working economy would be beneficial, and it would help the game monumentally. However were my thoughts differ is that i still think that refining wards, would be more beneficial than an AH. People that sell crafting items to NPC rather than Wards, will keep dung it even with an ah.
-Referencing the ffxi ah, unless you had a stack of item X you would keep till you do, or npc as well limited to 7 items, limited time on ah, and a fee that is payed every post of an item.
-In xiv with wards you can post item X regardless if you have 1 or 98 of stack, time is not limited (unless crash), only pay fee/tax if item sells, and you are not limited to 7 items.
Only edge an ah will have is more convenience.. unless am over looking something that is how thing appear to me.


the FFXI AH is terrible. We all are pretty aware of that. The debate isn't FFXI AH or Wards, both are stupid and I want nothing to do with either. I want one of those slick easy to use database/ebay style AHs other games have that allow you to put up any number of items, in any stack size, charge what I want, and as a buyer, see every product up for sale in easy to understand categories and search parameters.



QTF

I would love if they stole the WOW AH or even the new Diablo III AH( real money and game money).
____________________________
-Character Name: Djinnrb (old)
-Server: CaitSith
-Jobs:BLU75 BRD75 THF67 PLD 44 DRG 44 DNC39 NIN37
----------------------------------
-Character Name: Lightpalm
-Asura
-Jobs: WAR54 WHM53 RNG35 SAM70 RUN70
----------------------------------


http://ffxiv.zam.com/wiki/FFXIV_Leveling_Guide

Mithsavvy wrote:
Everything Square Enix does puts out a vibe that says, "I was programmed by someone who read C++ for Dummies after obtaining my degree in MIS"
#51 Aug 09 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
***
1,422 posts
DjinnRB wrote:
I would love if they stole the WOW AH or even the new Diablo III AH( real money and game money).


No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no N O ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

It's a horrible idea in Diablo 3, and it's an even MORE horrible idea anywhere else.

If I wanted to play a game where you abso@#%^inglutely have to shell out large amounts of RL money for ingame shinies to progress (and you're @#%^ing deluded if you think that that wouldn't happen), I'd go download some crappy cash shop MMO.

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 1:29pm by RajiFarlander
____________________________
FFXIV: Raji Skybrand (Leviathan)
Give a man a fish, he'll be fed for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll scream "F*** off noob, I know what I'm doing!" and continue to do it wrong.
« Previous 1 2
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 11 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (11)