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#52 Aug 09 2011 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
TwiddleDee wrote:
digitalcraft wrote:

Do you think having a working economy would cause the current players to leave?


I do agree that a working economy would be beneficial, and it would help the game monumentally. However were my thoughts differ is that i still think that refining wards, would be more beneficial than an AH.



I don't think they necessarily need to do away with the market wards. What they should do is make the market wards very low tax as compared to the auction house and use it as the place people sell that rare armor and weapons that you used to see outside of Jeuno.

Quote:
People that sell crafting items to NPC rather than Wards, will keep dung it even with an ah.


Some might, but I very much doubt that most would. If it was an easy to use auction house, you'd see more people using it. Fairly simple economy of time. It takes so much effort right now it's not worth the gil vs time to do it. It is sooo involved to list things right now. An AH would help this very much. AHs are made for bulk listing items like materials.

Quote:

-Referencing the ffxi ah, unless you had a stack of item X you would keep till you do, or npc as well limited to 7 items, limited time on ah, and a fee that is payed every post of an item.


We should never use the FFXI AH as the ideal. ;)

Quote:
-In xiv with wards you can post item X regardless if you have 1 or 98 of stack, time is not limited (unless crash), only pay fee/tax if item sells, and you are not limited to 7 items.
Only edge an ah will have is more convenience.. unless am over looking something that is how thing appear to me.


Convenience in massive quantities. I've played several MMOs now and I can't overestimate how helpful a convenient auction house is.

So far, honestly my favorite market system is the one from EVE. The best thing about it is the buy orders. In addition to sell orders common to most games, you can list on the market a "buy order": how many you want and for what price. People can go to the market and instead of listing the item, just fill a buy order and get their money right then and there. This does a few nifty things. One, it keeps prices relatively even because buy orders also compete against each other. The highest gets filled first. Prices on high volume items get squished between sell orders competing for cheapest and buy orders for highest, meeting somewhere in between. People get money right away just like if you sold to an npc, meaning its the most convenient way to sell things. Lastly, if people are willing to wait a little, they can use buy order to get things a bit cheaper than current AH stock price, just like if people are willing to wait a little they can put a sell order and sell items for a bit more than current AH buy price.

This is my ideal system.


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One other quick thing: this is just my general complaint about the zam system. Just because someone disagrees with you, you shouldn't be rating them down. It harms constructive debate and reduces ideas to talk about because people know if they're supporting an unpopular opinion they're going to suffer permanent consequences because of it. Use the downrate button when people are being rude/inflammatory and harming discussion, not just because you really want to beat them in an argument. I went through and rated twiddledee up because I think it's really unfair he's getting sub-D just because he disagrees with most people on the AH system. Just as bad, I know he'll get **** if he complains about people being unfair towards him, he has to just sit and take uncalled for rate-downs or shut up and leave what he feels is an important position undefended.

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 11:40am by digitalcraft
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#53 Aug 09 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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digitalcraft wrote:

So far, honestly my favorite market system is the one from EVE. The best thing about it is the buy orders. In addition to sell orders common to most games, you can list on the market a "buy order": how many you want and for what price. People can go to the market and instead of listing the item, just fill a buy order and get their money right then and there. This does a few nifty things. One, it keep.....
Edited, Aug 9th 2011 11:40am by digitalcraft


What? Does EVE have a 1month buddy pass, what you say sounds interesting.

However were i draw the line is the Diablo III AH. Is blizzard that desperate for money to make items needed for progression RL money bought and sold. It's a strategy i can't rap my head around, can you imagine how broken that would be instead of an item selling for 1mil gold, it will be 30$ USD. And blizzard can just artificially supply the AH and rake in the $$$$. RMT will not touch the economy there, the developer will be milking it himself.

Aion/Rift/WoW have the base of an ok AH, so SE should start from there. Diablo III is dead in my eyes RL money for in-game items, no thank you.
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#54 Aug 09 2011 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
I'm going to reserve judgment on the Diablo AH for now, but I agree on its surface it looks incredibly greedy by Activision-Blizzard.
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#55 Aug 09 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Default
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digitalcraft wrote:
I'm going to reserve judgment on the Diablo AH for now, but I agree on its surface it looks incredibly greedy by Activision-Blizzard.

I didn't even think of the implications of legal RMT. To me I saw a way for me to make money :D Depending on how it goes, it might be an interesitng system.
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#56 Aug 09 2011 at 2:53 PM Rating: Default
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Louiscool wrote:
digitalcraft wrote:
I'm going to reserve judgment on the Diablo AH for now, but I agree on its surface it looks incredibly greedy by Activision-Blizzard.

I didn't even think of the implications of legal RMT. To me I saw a way for me to make money :D Depending on how it goes, it might be an interesitng system.


Can you imagine the costs of items for people that want to keep it all in game? if 10$ covers 1mil, to get there times worth items will be in the 10's of millions in game. In game money and RL money don't have the same time/effort to reward ratio. In 1h game i make 100k in ffxiv, in RL i make 50$ (work)
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#57 Aug 09 2011 at 3:03 PM Rating: Excellent
50$ an hour? Well congrats to you.

But this is the point. Videogames are supposed to be their own reality. Your accomplishments should reflect how you do in the videogame. With this, the worth of in game money will be different per person based on your real life income. I already see people on other forums saying things like "Well thats just the Poors complaining". I like games to get away from this greedy capitalist BS world. Not going to be the game for me.
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#58 Aug 09 2011 at 3:29 PM Rating: Good
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D3 will be online only as well to boot.
@Didit:
I agree, i don't see why a dev team would base a game to the people with more money than brains. I believe that an in game accomplishment should be just that. I have played with people from actors yes i have met one on a MMO, to McD cashiers. And in game armor/equipment should be a reflection on what you can do in a game not RL $$
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#59 Aug 09 2011 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know much of the details but I thought the system was:

Put an item on the ah, name a price either in game money or real money or both.

I didn't think they were allowing the purchase of game money, though I guess there's little difference. I would never and have never paid money for fake money (aside from like, ok MAYBE one thing from the cash shop in Maple Story to get double xp...)

But it could easily turn into a system where the ONLY way to buy anything is with real money, and that would be the worst system ever.
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#60 Aug 09 2011 at 3:44 PM Rating: Excellent
Louiscool wrote:
I don't know much of the details but I thought the system was:

Put an item on the ah, name a price either in game money or real money or both.

I didn't think they were allowing the purchase of game money, though I guess there's little difference. I would never and have never paid money for fake money (aside from like, ok MAYBE one thing from the cash shop in Maple Story to get double xp...)

But it could easily turn into a system where the ONLY way to buy anything is with real money, and that would be the worst system ever.



Game money will be directly linked to real money because you can buy an item for real money then sell it for gold. And actually from what I read, people will also just be able to sell gold for real money on the auction place.
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#61 Aug 09 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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digitalcraft wrote:

Game money will be directly linked to real money because you can buy an item for real money then sell it for gold. And actually from what I read, people will also just be able to sell gold for real money on the auction place.


So RMT paradise? In that logic I'll use an item from xi we all know the price of Hagun (was 3mil 2 years back). So to get item in game you need to do a ENM (on a 4day cool down) which involves, 1-2h's getting entry item, a group of people, and major luck. So 3mil is fair for game money and split 4-5ways is still good. Now what would you charge in RL money for same item 10-20$ for something that took 2months to get, seems a waist to even bother selling for RL money.
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#62 Aug 09 2011 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
TwiddleDee wrote:
digitalcraft wrote:

Game money will be directly linked to real money because you can buy an item for real money then sell it for gold. And actually from what I read, people will also just be able to sell gold for real money on the auction place.


So RMT paradise? In that logic I'll use an item from xi we all know the price of Hagun (was 3mil 2 years back). So to get item in game you need to do a ENM (on a 4day cool down) which involves, 1-2h's getting entry item, a group of people, and major luck. So 3mil is fair for game money and split 4-5ways is still good. Now what would you charge in RL money for same item 10-20$ for something that took 2months to get, seems a waist to even bother selling for RL money.


The real question for you though is would you rather work for raising 3 mil gil to buy it or would you rather pay $10-20 bucks for it?
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#63 Aug 09 2011 at 5:46 PM Rating: Default
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RajiFarlander wrote:
DjinnRB wrote:
I would love if they stole the WOW AH or even the new Diablo III AH( real money and game money).


No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no N O ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

It's a horrible idea in Diablo 3, and it's an even MORE horrible idea anywhere else.

If I wanted to play a game where you abso@#%^inglutely have to shell out large amounts of RL money for ingame shinies to progress (and you're @#%^ing deluded if you think that that wouldn't happen), I'd go download some crappy cash shop MMO.

Edited, Aug 9th 2011 1:29pm by RajiFarlander



who said anything about HAVING to shell out RL money? thats why there is TWO AH's in the game one for ingame currency and one for RL money. no one forces u to spend your money. all im saying is it would be nice to be able to make some extra cash from a game lol.
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#64 Aug 09 2011 at 7:44 PM Rating: Decent
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RajiFarlander wrote:
It's a horrible idea in Diablo 3, and it's an even MORE horrible idea anywhere else.

If I wanted to play a game where you abso@#%^inglutely have to shell out large amounts of RL money for ingame shinies to progress (and you're @#%^ing deluded if you think that that wouldn't happen), I'd go download some crappy cash shop MMO.


Yeah, the fact that Blizzard says that you "can choose to grind progress or buy it! ;D" just takes casual gaming to the worst possible level... if you can't play a game then you can't play it; you shouldn't be able to essentially buy playtime instead. >_<;

Now I can either fight the strongest, rarest, or most clever monsters, devising some strategy to perfect my character or... toss out a hundred dollars and act like a hero.

Such an option devalues the time and effort of anyone who actually bothers to earn items because, almost universally, the time to get a good item will be less than an hour's wage at the lowest-paying job in your region. It forces you to consider the time "wasted" as you think "huh, it took me two hours to earn a $6 sword" instead of "woot, got my rare drop!"

A sad day, really. :\
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#65 Aug 09 2011 at 9:32 PM Rating: Default
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KaneKitty wrote:
RajiFarlander wrote:
It's a horrible idea in Diablo 3, and it's an even MORE horrible idea anywhere else.

If I wanted to play a game where you abso@#%^inglutely have to shell out large amounts of RL money for ingame shinies to progress (and you're @#%^ing deluded if you think that that wouldn't happen), I'd go download some crappy cash shop MMO.


Yeah, the fact that Blizzard says that you "can choose to grind progress or buy it! ;D" just takes casual gaming to the worst possible level... if you can't play a game then you can't play it; you shouldn't be able to essentially buy playtime instead. >_<;

Now I can either fight the strongest, rarest, or most clever monsters, devising some strategy to perfect my character or... toss out a hundred dollars and act like a hero.

Such an option devalues the time and effort of anyone who actually bothers to earn items because, almost universally, the time to get a good item will be less than an hour's wage at the lowest-paying job in your region. It forces you to consider the time "wasted" as you think "huh, it took me two hours to earn a $6 sword" instead of "woot, got my rare drop!"

A sad day, really. :\


meh... I disagree.
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Everything Square Enix does puts out a vibe that says, "I was programmed by someone who read C++ for Dummies after obtaining my degree in MIS"
#66 Aug 10 2011 at 1:42 AM Rating: Default
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Diablo 3 though is NOT an MMO and most play is done via co-op or single player (even hough its online)

items are random drops and no items are RMT only so if people wanna pay for items it wont effect my gameplay or unbalance it in anyway except if i play PvP which isnt the basis of the game (i wont though as i play diablo for co-op action with friends).

I can understand why blizzard has done it as illegal RMT in diablo 2 was bad and open battle.net was just full of hacks and mods.

Basically what im trying to say is RMT AH doesnt devalue anyones progress as your not logged in to the same world its simply 100's or 1000's of small game created by players to go do some fighting with friends.

If you want to log in to other peoples server just so you can show off your **** piece of gear that was obtained by nothing more than luck then boo friggin hooo that someone else didint spend x amount of hours compared to you to obtain it. Because its all luck i could spend 5 minutes getting an item that took someone else 10's of hours to get. Does that mean i dont deserve my item because i didint spend as long getting it ?
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#67 Aug 10 2011 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
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BlackstarrStrife wrote:
Diablo 3 though is NOT an MMO and most play is done via co-op or single player (even hough its online)

items are random drops and no items are RMT only so if people wanna pay for items it wont effect my gameplay or unbalance it in anyway except if i play PvP which isnt the basis of the game (i wont though as i play diablo for co-op action with friends).

I can understand why blizzard has done it as illegal RMT in diablo 2 was bad and open battle.net was just full of hacks and mods.

Basically what im trying to say is RMT AH doesnt devalue anyones progress as your not logged in to the same world its simply 100's or 1000's of small game created by players to go do some fighting with friends.

If you want to log in to other peoples server just so you can show off your **** piece of gear that was obtained by nothing more than luck then boo friggin hooo that someone else didint spend x amount of hours compared to you to obtain it. Because its all luck i could spend 5 minutes getting an item that took someone else 10's of hours to get. Does that mean i dont deserve my item because i didint spend as long getting it ?


What? That was like a riddle made zero sense.

Here's the thing, if a character is poorly geared after 100h's of game play (bad luck) would you choose him to group.. or the parson with 5min game play and the best armor from using a CC. Personally i would go with the guy with 100h's least he knows to play.
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#68 Aug 10 2011 at 6:33 AM Rating: Decent
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It did make sense most people play the game with friends not randoms

If i did group with randoms i wouldnt care what gear they had as long its approapriate for their level otherwise its just elitist also how the **** do you know they are PRO at the game. Its about having some fun not making 100% cetain you achieve MAX xp in the quickest time.

Point is you DONT have to play with others to access the full game unlike an MMO and this is usually where having specific gear is expected because you HAVE to rely on others to compelte objectives. Diablo 3 is a single player game that has multiplayer features so you can play single, with friends or randoms if you wish and the experience will be the same gameplay wise.

Quote:
Here's the thing, if a character is poorly geared after 100h's of game play (bad luck) would you choose him to group.. or the parson with 5min game play and the best armor from using a CC Personally i would go with the guy with 100h's least he knows to play.


If i did group with randoms i would also prefer someone who could play and knew what he was doing but not to the point that i wouldnt group with beginners

That guy who bought all the uber gear what advantage did he get? you already said you wouldnt pick him so how is the AH harming anyones game play experience ?

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#69 Aug 10 2011 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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My morning got of on a bad foot so I'll keep it short.
What i am saying is, random or friend if you had the choice 50h in game to get item X, or 10$ to get same item, people will choose the 10$ and get it over with.. That being said it would make for a very dull game, if for 100$ you can get the best in-game armor and quit with in a month.
As well for the people that choose the in-game only path it will put them a few steps below. Can you picture ffxi with the ability to by items for RL money? Everyone would be rolling the +1's or the HNM drops without leaving Jeuno (if you get my drift). How long would you play a game were relics (lest say) took 2years to obtain in game or 50$ RL money? i would quit in a heart beat.
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#70 Aug 10 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
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TwiddleDee wrote:
Can you picture ffxi with the ability to by items for RL money? Everyone would be rolling the +1's or the HNM drops without leaving Jeuno (if you get my drift). How long would you play a game were relics (lest say) took 2years to obtain in game or 50$ RL money? i would quit in a heart beat.


1: "Excellent! After five months of addictive effort, I finally forged the greatest, most stylish armour!"

2: "Br0, I just bought that for liek twenty bucks. Everyone's wearing it lol. Wanna PT? ...I probably have a better weapon than you anyway rofl!"
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"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

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#71 Aug 10 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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DoctorMog wrote:
They said they have no plans to implement it.


Oh yea?

"They" wrote:

Improvement of market area connectivity and stability
-Stage two of radical improvement measures
-Ongoing improvements to market area stability

Examination of an auction house system
-Final examination of retainer and auction house systems
-Initial planning following final decision

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#72 Aug 10 2011 at 12:22 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:

1: "Excellent! After five months of addictive effort, I finally forged the greatest, most stylish armour!"

2: "Br0, I just bought that for liek twenty bucks. Everyone's wearing it lol. Wanna PT? ...I probably have a better weapon than you anyway rofl!"


1: "I have been playing for over 10 months and i plan to play for another 10 at least!"

2: "Br0, i started 4 days ago and this game sux i may quit with in a week. But man o man will i look L33T in my week of playtime!"

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#73 Aug 10 2011 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't mind the diablo cash AH because as people said, its not an MMO, and unlike MMOs you actually can choose who you play and interact with, if you want to avoid people who look like they've paid for stuff, its pretty easy to never deal with them. the guy who shelled out 1k real dollars for his dude will never affect you positively or negatively in any way.

Also, its pretty naive to think that this stuff didn't go on anyways, and even if more people are tempted to participate because its legit, it will hopefully cut down on hacks and account theft. I look at it like parents buying their high school kids a 12 pack, so they don't have to deal with paying a hobo outside of 7-11.
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#74 Aug 10 2011 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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KujaKoF wrote:
I look at it like parents buying their high school kids a 12 pack, so they don't have to deal with paying a hobo outside of 7-11.


So the poverty-stricken guy who needs the money doesn't get paid and the kid still gets the beer that the parents would prefer he didn't drink. That actually seems like more of a lose-lose. XD

But to the discussion:

People used to dislike RMT because it was cheating - a person could buy their way through the game instead of actually earning things through playing it. D3's system is a solution that aims to "rectify" a problem by simply embracing that problem. Evidently, the problem was never the selling of virtual goods for cash, the problem was that someone other than Blizzard was making the profits from doing it.
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#75 Aug 10 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:

Evidently, the problem was never the selling of virtual goods for cash, the problem was that someone other than Blizzard was making the profits from doing it.


This... +1 (can't rate yet)
Why fight them, when you can do as they do and take all profit for your self.
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#76 Aug 10 2011 at 3:52 PM Rating: Default
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are you guys that are saying D3 is not an MMO dumb? D3 is ONLINE ONLY there is no single player at ALL. it is very much an MMO.
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Everything Square Enix does puts out a vibe that says, "I was programmed by someone who read C++ for Dummies after obtaining my degree in MIS"
#77 Aug 10 2011 at 4:38 PM Rating: Good
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DjinnRB wrote:
D3 is ONLINE ONLY there is no single player at ALL.


This is simply not true. While the game requires a persistent Internet connection, it still very much so contains a single player option.

Source:

"Your character will be online on battle net the moment you start playing," said Rob Pardo, executive producer of Diablo III. "You can play a solo experience like you would in Diablo II, it's just your character is on Blizzard's servers and authenticated." This character can then hop into multiplayer games and trade items with others through battle net."

http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1185029p1.html

Please don't spread false rumors.

Edited, Aug 10th 2011 6:44pm by Whales
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#78 Aug 10 2011 at 7:18 PM Rating: Default
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I heard that u have to be online to play thats where I got the info. I didnt know of the article that said the info so I wasnt informed about the playing alone part. I guess I was lied to. But still online is online.
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Mithsavvy wrote:
Everything Square Enix does puts out a vibe that says, "I was programmed by someone who read C++ for Dummies after obtaining my degree in MIS"
#79 Aug 10 2011 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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DjinnRB wrote:
I heard that u have to be online to play thats where I got the info. I didnt know of the article that said the info so I wasnt informed about the playing alone part. I guess I was lied to. But still online is online.


You have to be online to play, as in connected to the internet. But its still for most intents and purposes a single player game. Its the same crappy aspect of DRM that people complain about for every game these days.
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#80 Aug 10 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
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If you dont want to deal with people who use real money AH sac up and play hardcore mode, no mickey mouse real money AH there. Thats where I will be.
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#81 Aug 11 2011 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Louiscool wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
They said they have no plans to implement it.


Oh yea?

"They" wrote:

Improvement of market area connectivity and stability
-Stage two of radical improvement measures
-Ongoing improvements to market area stability

Examination of an auction house system
-Final examination of retainer and auction house systems
-Initial planning following final decision



Keep in mind that upon "Final examination of retainer and Auction House systems" they may very well have a "final decision" not to implement an AH.
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#82 Aug 11 2011 at 5:39 AM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
DoctorMog wrote:
They said they have no plans to implement it.


Oh yea?

"They" wrote:

Improvement of market area connectivity and stability
-Stage two of radical improvement measures
-Ongoing improvements to market area stability

Examination of an auction house system
-Final examination of retainer and auction house systems
-Initial planning following final decision



Keep in mind that upon "Final examination of retainer and Auction House systems" they may very well have a "final decision" not to implement an AH.


Absolutely, but it's in the cards and misleading to just flat out say "they have no plans." This was the old dev teams statement on AHs, not the new one's.
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#83 Aug 11 2011 at 7:46 AM Rating: Default
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52 posts
They should create an AH and use retainers as personal assistants that we can summon where ever we're at. We can then give items to retainers and they'll either store them for us, or take them to the AH for us. They can then go buy stuff off the AH and bring it to us.
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#84 Aug 11 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
DjinnRB wrote:
I heard that u have to be online to play thats where I got the info. I didnt know of the article that said the info so I wasnt informed about the playing alone part. I guess I was lied to. But still online is online.
And even so, online does not mean MMO. I think 8 players per instance doesn't make it massive multi-player.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

Almalieque wrote:
I know what a glory hole is, but I wasn't sure what the business part was in reference to.

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#85 Oct 05 2011 at 10:59 PM Rating: Default
20 posts
doubleax wrote:
A few months away from its one year release date and FFXIV is still a colossal failure. This is a reminder for all those people defending this horrid market ward. The AH was and is a huge selling point to why many people won't touch this game. The ward worked, has always worked but that doesn't mean it isn't a crappy way of buying and selling. It is just one of many faults with FFXIV. Instead of fixing this mistake they are trying to band-aid it and keep with the arrogance that they know what people like instead of actually listening to what people are telling them.


Apologize in advance for necroing a thread, but the 1.19 patch notes drew me back to check on this again, and realizing my thread blew up, decided to read it. I have to say, I'm seriously impressed with the 1.19 changes and here's a line for SE if they ever still bother reading these forums: I'd be playing this game right now and willing to pay for it along with a group of friends (and probably many others) if there were but simply an AH.


And P.S. -

DjinnRB wrote:


QTF

I would love if they stole the WOW AH or even the new Diablo III AH( real money and game money).


As hyped and psyched as I was for D3, I won't be playing any multiplayer if I play the game at all and that right there is the reason. If SE even considered that type of AH in their company's current down hill slide, they'd be hammering the nails on their own coffin.

Necro Warning: This post occurred more than thirty days after the prior, and may be a necropost.
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