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Fun for Non-Combat Classes - What do you want?Follow

#1 Aug 15 2011 at 2:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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The topic of what would make non-combat classes, particularly crafting, has been on my mind a lot lately.

This thread is not about what would "fix" crafting (assuming as some people believe, it is broken), or make it "better." Balancing crafting recipes, recipe levels, working more on the player economy, etc. are not really what I want to discuss. But rather gameplay and content that would make non-combat classes, as a whole, more enjoyable to play.

Many games have attempted to create crafting and gathering classes that are not merely "professions" that exist only to compliment the combat classes. It's obvious that the Final Fantasy XIV team had bold ambitions to make their own attempt. With each passing update, it seems that the failures that coincided with the launch have caused the development team to scrap many of their grand ideas that they half committed to. I'm not here to argue whether or not these changes are bad or good. But one thing that seems to be presently on the chopping block is crafting as a mode of play just as valid and supported as combat.

Many of you may be happy to see that potentially change. Many of us would not be happy. Whether or not it happens isn't really what this is about either. So with that introduction out of the way, the question I am raising with this thread is, what would make non-combat classes more enjoyable to you?




My Responses
  • Customization - Store Fronts and Workshops
Give us workshops and store fronts! We're merchants and tradesmen, our progression is our business. Allow us to customize, construct, and purchase additions to our workshops and storefronts.
  • We are not Adventurers
Stop making us deliver things into the middle of nowhere! Let us send our retainers out on chocobo-back to make delivers, and receive the reward when they return. Let us hire NPC adventurers. Anything, really.
  • Don't be Afraid of A-Symmetry
Making each craft more unique won't hurt anyone, add something to spice it up. Make the gameplay for each craft more unique. We won't complain.
  • We are Townspeople, and that's OK
It's okay for a majority of our time to be spent in the city. It makes perfect sense. Just liven up the town, add more NPCs, make us interact with them more. Add more things to do, and more details. It will only add to the immersion for combat players as well.
  • Notorious... Merchants!?
Why are NMs only for adventurers, and not for us too? Add Notorious Merchants, traders from far away lands that appear on occasion. By bartering (parley) with them, trading one material for another, we may succeed in striking a deal and receiving some rare and unique materials for special synthesis.
  • What's Parley Again?
First of all - make parley more fun. I don't care if you just make it bejeweled, just imagine you're trying to get people to buy it, and make it fun. Then - add in merchants, all around town, that come and go, and can be traded with. Perhaps I have an abundance of ore, and need leather. Yes, it's great to have a player-driven economy, but a lot of stuff gets thrown away or vendored. Strike a balance, and give crafters things to do other than sit in the market wards all day.
  • Item Exodus - The NPC economy?
There's lots of things to do as an adventurer that don't involve other players. Give crafters a few things to do too. Guild tasks are okay, albeit far too simple to be compelling. Have us repairing things around town, providing materials, make NPC supply chains that have supply and demand, and crafters can anticipate the NPC economy. (Balance! It creates a good item sink while allowing a sense of mastery for more players.)
  • Raiding... the Kitchen?
Give us a reason to play with other crafters beyond the "I need your straps for my armor, you need my buckles for your jackets." Group crafting is on the way? Super! Let's see on top of that, "dungeon" equivalents crop up for crafting. Instanced events, a team of chefs cater a noble's wedding? This should be far better SP than grinding. (Just as with combatants)



That's it for me! I have plenty of other ideas, but I'll leave it at that for now. I want to hear what the rest of the ZAM community thinks, what do you want to see?


#2 Aug 15 2011 at 4:31 AM Rating: Excellent
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I like the way you think! Probably because I craft as a main in this game as well, and really, really wish I can open my own store.
#3 Aug 15 2011 at 4:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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I actually want the Local Leve to have more than just delivering finished Item to Camp. How about carrying the Item to Camp and use them to repair buildings, fences, defensive mechanism like Ballista/Cannon, Airship etc. at Camp?
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#4 Aug 15 2011 at 5:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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i like the ideas i haven't done much crafting yet having just starting but i noticed 2 things

1) is not having much to do other than leves and guild tasks 1 guild task i did cost me more than i made even :/

2) i remember reading before lauch that you could attack with your crafter/gatherer too.. but from when i noticed altho it could just be cause my level is that all you can do is throw a rock .. if i have a knife or a scyth a hatch or a hammer in any of my hands why am i throwing a rock?

there should definately be more things to do
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#5 Aug 15 2011 at 5:35 AM Rating: Excellent
Khornette wrote:
I actually want the Local Leve to have more than just delivering finished Item to Camp. How about carrying the Item to Camp and use them to repair buildings, fences, defensive mechanism like Ballista/Cannon, Airship etc. at Camp?
I would rather not make deliveries at all. Let me handle my business in town. I wouldn't mind repair quests or what not, but as it is now 'local' crafting leves can send you all over the region if you want to get all of the ones offered you done. While we are on the subject of annoying crafting leves, I don't think I should have to have high leather craft to do a weaver leve. I don't mind it for actual crafting, but there should be some sort of work around (or just not make people craft those items) when it comes to leves.
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#6 Aug 15 2011 at 6:57 AM Rating: Good
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Vestal Chamberlain Lubriderm wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I actually want the Local Leve to have more than just delivering finished Item to Camp. How about carrying the Item to Camp and use them to repair buildings, fences, defensive mechanism like Ballista/Cannon, Airship etc. at Camp?
I would rather not make deliveries at all. Let me handle my business in town. I wouldn't mind repair quests or what not, but as it is now 'local' crafting leves can send you all over the region if you want to get all of the ones offered you done. While we are on the subject of annoying crafting leves, I don't think I should have to have high leather craft to do a weaver leve. I don't mind it for actual crafting, but there should be some sort of work around (or just not make people craft those items) when it comes to leves.


The idea of Local Leve is to make Crafter go out to Camp and provide service to DoW/DoM/DoL. That is why there is NO repair NPC at any Camp. And the word 'Local' can also means within the region. I meant, you aren't expected to pick up a Local leve in Thanalan and deliver it in La Noscea right?

Subcraft, I don't know. I suppose it's carried over from FFXI.
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#7 Aug 15 2011 at 7:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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More inventory space so I don't end up NPCing the majority of stuff I make or gather.

A postal service.....it is awful either having to ask a friend to stop playing to transfer stuff to my alt, or spend 2 hours putting 10 items on my retainer (after having to exchange them and swap menus), panic that someone is going to buy them for 1g (to avoid the tax) as I desperately log out and onto alt, then repeat, and repeat. This will be less of a problem for me on PS3 release, as I can dual box.....but that isn't good for everyone.

Have the ability to trade more than 4 items a time.....especially as a lot of recipes call for more than 4 ingredients. I presume this is an anti RMT thing.....but it's bloody annoying.
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#8 Aug 15 2011 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Great ideas Ramsey,

Personally, #1 on top of my list would be:

Retainer levels
I know they were planning to do it, but haven't really done anything with it, but it would be great if retainers actually had more features if you use them more, especially if it somehow meant that the default retainer is fine for an adventurer who sells his loots, but a high level retainer provides all the services a crafter can use (Buy orders, repair services, offer guild support, more capacity and selling slots, etc.)

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#9 Aug 15 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Khornette wrote:


The idea of Local Leve is to make Crafter go out to Camp and provide service to DoW/DoM/DoL. That is why there is NO repair NPC at any Camp. And the word 'Local' can also means within the region. I meant, you aren't expected to pick up a Local leve in Thanalan and deliver it in La Noscea right?

Subcraft, I don't know. I suppose it's carried over from FFXI.
So a regional leve is inter-regional then?
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#10 Aug 15 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Khornette wrote:
Vestal Chamberlain Lubriderm wrote:
Khornette wrote:
I actually want the Local Leve to have more than just delivering finished Item to Camp. How about carrying the Item to Camp and use them to repair buildings, fences, defensive mechanism like Ballista/Cannon, Airship etc. at Camp?
I would rather not make deliveries at all. Let me handle my business in town. I wouldn't mind repair quests or what not, but as it is now 'local' crafting leves can send you all over the region if you want to get all of the ones offered you done. While we are on the subject of annoying crafting leves, I don't think I should have to have high leather craft to do a weaver leve. I don't mind it for actual crafting, but there should be some sort of work around (or just not make people craft those items) when it comes to leves.


The idea of Local Leve is to make Crafter go out to Camp and provide service to DoW/DoM/DoL. That is why there is NO repair NPC at any Camp. And the word 'Local' can also means within the region. I meant, you aren't expected to pick up a Local leve in Thanalan and deliver it in La Noscea right?

Subcraft, I don't know. I suppose it's carried over from FFXI.


Whatever was intended as far as "making crafters go to camps to service adventurers" is far from the reality. We just run there as fast as we can our crap off and move on to the next camp. Adventurers return to town for repairs if they can't perform them themselves.

Also I think you're confusing the word "local" with "regional." Regional leves take place within the region, those are for adventurers. The word local and regional are not the same, otherwise they would not be two different words.

The fact is, delivering items manually all over the realm is not fun, nor does it provide any great benefit to the overall game world. It's a giant time sink, one that crafters shouldn't be performing. Time sinks are okay if they're enjoyable, or serve a practical purpose, but a time sink for time sink's sake should be avoided at all costs.

Let us send our retainers to make deliveries, **** make it an option, for those who want to keep running out to nowhere, feel free.

On the other hand, having quests and content that takes us out into the world is perfectly fine, as long as it makes sense. The suggestion of going into the field to make repairs for instance, that's a great start. It should be different and new content though, not just running our wears out to camps.

Also, the player you were responding to wasn't saying subcrafts need to go, merely that having levequests (which are intended to be the easy, but infrequent way to level for casual players) which require high level subcrafts, are a bit, well, silly.

Edited, Aug 15th 2011 11:21am by RamseySylph
#11 Aug 15 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally I think they should either make the crafting classes combat-capable (perhaps even by making "crafter" a generic combat class that you strengthen as you level all crafts) or just scrap crafts as individual classes altogether (i.e., you just switch equipment to craft, not classes). They could even perhaps do both.

I don't know how broken crafting is-- I just know it wasn't much fun, and that the crafting classes, as well as the gathering classes, were all essentially the same. In my mind they didn't make them unique classes but instead just took the same activities from FFXI and removed them from your character's standard skills. So to me, all they did was impose an annoying class change on top of what you could basically already do in FFXI (in addition to adding some pretty boring minigames).

There just didn't really seem to be any substantial amount of planning or thought to flesh these classes out, and the result was really quite sad.
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#12 Aug 15 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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One of the things I've been thinking about is maybe giving crafting classes a way to contribute to the war effort against the Empire. I've seen mention of large scale PvE battles being implemented at some point in the future, so maybe they can come in handy there. If it's going to be anything like Besieged or Campaign from XI, we will probably be fighting along side friendly NPCs to get the job done. I was thinking of some sort of system where crafters can boost the stats of those NPCs to help fight along side DoW classes in the battle. Here's what I had in mind:

Say there's a large battle about to break out. Crafters could report to the staging area for that battle. A quartermaster type NPC can give out leves that have purchase orders on them. Things like weapons, armor, potions, food (soldiers have to eat after all), etc. Maybe harvesting classes could go harvest raw materials for repairs or something. The NPCs that we fight with could have their stats raised based on the number and types of crafting leves completed in the staging area. There would probably have to be a cap on the stats to keep NPCs from becoming too powerful, so either leves could keep giving out rewards for crafters even though the cap has been reached, or maybe new unbuffed NPCs could be dispatched for the crafters to buff. If no crafters show up to a battle, then the NPCs would just be deployed with their standard stats. That way you wouldn't absolutely need crafters to be there, but it would give you a very nice edge.

Going back to the leves themselves, they would provide the materials for you like normal leves. However with the crafting adjustments and materia system coming, I think there could be a way to donate gear/items you make with your own materials for bonus rewards. Say you make a sweet jacket all loaded out with materia. You could donate that jacket as a custom piece of armor. These pieces would boost the stats of hero NPCs (that would have a stat boost cap like the normal soldiers) that could show up from time to time on the battlefield. Of course you would get some nice rewards for custom armor like SP, money/items, maybe even guild marks. Maybe the higher level/grade of the stuff you donate would have higher rewards or even things that only be attained through donation. There would probably have to be a cap on those too, maybe 1-3 donations per person per battle or something.

It's a very rough idea that would have to be tweaked, but I think something along those lines would be neat. It would add a bit more authenticity to the feel of the war. You have your front line fighters going out to confront the enemy while your support crew is behind the lines doing repairs, making armor/weapons, etc. As a crafter myself, I'd totally go do something like that.
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#13 Aug 15 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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I would really like it if different crafts had different minigames... even if it was still sort of the same (like DoL minigames)

it would be cool if using main vs offhand changed the game as well.
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#14 Aug 15 2011 at 4:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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Also I would like DoL to do more things - like it would be great if fishers could do a quest to get their own rowboat and fish in some more obscure places - or if miners could find secret passageways in the mines (also if they could mine in the mines....) and if Botanists could garden.

also I want more fish, and more things to do with them. It is so lame to have most fish only be able to be used as sand or for crystals. It makes fishing a lot more boring. XI has a lot of cool quests just for fishers - I can't see why similar quests couldn't be made for DoL in XIV.

I would also love more variety in what fish I can get where. I want the fish I can get from one bluff to differ slightly from the one just down the way. Some super rare fish should only be found in a few select spots. Each lake should have its own ecosystem and really rare catches. It would be sweet if fishing in an area that doesn't give SP could give you a good chance at catching really rare fish.
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#15 Aug 15 2011 at 5:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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More responses...

  • Money, Money... Money!
It's okay for us to have more of it than the average adventurer. Making money is our job. As long as the average adventurer can get by, and the treasure hunters are on par with us. It's difficult and unwieldy to make gil sinks for merchants. Instead, give us reasons to spend money on adventurers, and give them ways to sink that gil. To that end...
  • Gambling
This is self explanatory. Open the platinum mirage, the Colosseum, let us bet on matches, let us bet on chocobo races. What have you. Gambling isn't specific to us merchants, but if we have more money, we're more likely to gamble with it. On that note...
  • Sponsored Adventurers!?
As I said, give us reasons to give money to adventurers. Whether we're sponsoring a Colosseum team to take on some monsters or other adventurers (creating opportunities for others to bet!) or we're funding an expedition of adventurers into a raid or dungeon, giving them a chance to obtain gear, and us a chance to obtain rare materials. Gil sunk, but we're still making money if the expedition is successful.
  • Notorious...Minerals?
Okay, now I'm just being a bit silly. But the same idea applies to DoL as it does to DoH. Rare spawns shouldn't be limited to Adventurers. Exotic bushes, endangered trees, rare mineral nodes and legendary fish. The excitement of spotting one (visual distinction please!) and obtaining the rare resource, and the reward. No reason not to add this!
  • Can't We All Just Get Along?
Levequests, missions and public events that involve all two or more different disciplines. This is self explanatory, but special leves where gatherers are escorted by adventurers, when they gather enemies attack, adventurers must defend. Faster gatherers gather, faster they can move on? This is just one simple example, there are lots of opportunities here.
#16 Aug 15 2011 at 7:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Miner's should be able to tunnel and mine their own mines.

Botanist's plant their own orchards.

Skillchains for DoL : when you make successive strikes, the SP goes up. Bonus for one hit strikes.


EDIT: Rate ups for everybody - this thread is almost too classy for SE's eyes. I'm reading so many good ideas that SE is just not worthy of.

Edited, Aug 15th 2011 9:49pm by rikkuotaku
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#17 Aug 15 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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You said non-combat classes so i'd like to add something for Dol. We really need a Grade 6 before 50.
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#18 Aug 15 2011 at 11:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is there a similar post in the official forums? Us DoL/DoH want some love too, not being relegated to crafting as a secondary thing like all other MMORPGs out there. All these suggestions are how we can have a huge role in the world without having to actually go fight alongside the DoW, and it should really be seen by the official forum mods (repeatedly).

I guess a few of us just want to make virtual money rather than hitting monsters with sharpened steel. :P

EDIT: Having a headache makes me brain no function well, English therefore unpossible.

Edited, Aug 16th 2011 1:46am by Enfid
#19 Aug 16 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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I would want the crafting classes to be about more than just the crafting items.

I'd want day to day stuff be easier. components and ammo etc would not require a mini game, mediocre gear would have the mini game it does now, and high end stuff using rare mats would have more complex mini games.

Non crafting objectives. basically more mini games, either daily or weekly to keep them feeling a bit special, but rather than have guild leves be just crafting stuff I'd make anyways, the NPC can tell me I'm making something special, give me a bejeweled, tetris, other kind of puzzle or involved game and how high I score would give me mats/exp/gil or any other reward. This could maybe combined into group crafting.

Also, get rid of most of the cross class crafting. For it to work well it has to be profitable for each component, and MMOs have a ridiculously high supplier:consumer ratio, so thats pretty much impossible.
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#20 Aug 16 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know it might be hard to pull for every crafting class, but how about the equivalent of crafting Behests?

Emergency at the alchemist guild! All crafters in Ul'dah report with all haste!

Weavers, use hasty hands to make bandages! The number of bandages rapidly goes down, you can't take the time to craft them properly!
Alchemist, we need potions and unguents!
and so on

And then after 10 minutes of crafting to stop the emergency, big bonus SP to all, and gil reward.

That would certainly make my day....
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#21 Aug 16 2011 at 10:31 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with everything in the OP's post, except for spending most of our time in the city. Especially when I have to constantly listen to that festival music lol. All jokes aside, you make good points, it would go a long way to making DOL classes more unique.
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#22 Aug 16 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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More!

  • Auction House... But Not What You Think!
One of the big problems those players with an excess amount of cash have started to notice is, there's really nothing to spend it on. These players are just soaking up most of the economy's money, and then sitting on it. Give them something to spend it on, and have fun in the process. Let's see an auction house, a real auction house, a la FFVI, FFIX, where players can try to outbid each other on daily auctions of exotic items. It would be a fantastic way to pull money out of the economy from the top level.
  • NPC Middlemen! (Or: Why can't my retainer do this?)
Whether it's added as a new feature for the retainer, or there's an organization of NPC merchants around town that perform this function, allow players to dump unwanted items into these NPCs, at which point they will, using metrics, attempt to sell the items at a reasonable price, in the wards, to other players. They will take a decent cut of the profits, emptying gil out of the economy, while providing a no-strings-attached, no hassle, no fuss way for players to get rid of their unwanted mole shanks and **** feathers after an adventure, without merely vendoring them. Once the item is sold, it's added to the player's account, and the account can be picked up whenever. This serves a dual purpose, if the market becomes over-saturated with a certain item driving prices down, this system could merely kill the item, while still giving the player more of a gil reward than what they'd get vendoring an item. It would still be desirable to sell high value items, and large stacks of specific items via one's own retainer or (hopefully, eventually) store.


Workshops... Detailed!
I mentioned workshops in my OP, to expand on that: provide a number of unique floor layouts for rooms, the room itself can be simple, so this shouldn't be terribly difficult, re-skinned for each nation. As we level, and can afford it, (charging on a curve per number of rooms) allow us to expand our workshop with additional rooms. These simple rooms can be customized largely by the placement and addition of a variety of furniture pieces and decorations.
  • Storage is King!
Right off the bat, the number one thing that players should be able to add to their workshop is additional storage. Both generic storage, as well as unique item storage. A box of rings to store large quantities of metal rings, a pantry to store spices, and what have you. Much like the Archer's quiver, these furniture pieces could have visual indications of how stocked they are, providing a cheaply implemented sense of immersion. More importantly, the player could cater each room of their workshop to the needs of a specific craft or type of synthesis. While in that room, players could directly access materials from each storage space during synthesis, and synthesizing any material compatible with a storage unit would drop it directly into the unit. Merely targeting the storage unit would allow the player to have direct access to add and remove items. This kind of functionality alone gives players enough reason to use their workshop for long haul synthesis sessions, which is what they should use it for.
  • Tools of the Trade
What smith's workshop would be complete without a forge, what weaver's without a loom? A craftsman is only as good as his tools, right? A sewing needle and a hammer comprise only a fraction of the tools each of these professions uses. We have crystal synthesis to abstract crafting, allowing us to carry around only these small tools with us. But when we are in our workshop, as the NPCs do in the guilds, let us make use of more tools! There's already loads of animations for using various tools in the guilds, and new animations are always in the works for combat classes, so it's not out of the question to toss some our way as well. Various types of tools can provide various benefits, some may allow us to mass produce simple materials more quickly, while others may be meant for improving success on finished items. Start simple, let us have common support whenever we use our basic workbench. As we rank up and can buy new upgrades to use, enhance the bonuses little by little.
  • Tools need upgrades Too!
Let us make additions and attachments to our tools, there's no need to constantly replace them. Each "workbench" (Using this as a generic term) could have a number of attachment slots, that increases as we rank up. Each attachment could provide a minor bonus, nothing too amazing that we never want to craft outside of our workshop again, but a lot of minor things and convenience features that give us a reason to craft there for long sessions of creating raw materials, or for creating very difficult and rare armors and weapons (etc.) Perhaps adding new bellows to our forge reduces the change of causing our fire element to go unstable, just simple bonuses that we'll be more than willing to shell out the gil to acquire.
  • We can still Craft Elsewhere!
The key with our workshop is convenience, we don't want a workshop to become such a boon that it feels wrong to try to craft anything beyond its walls. That said, as I mention above, if we're in for a long grinding session of churning out raw materials, or attempting to high-quality a particularly difficult item, it makes perfect sense that we'd want to do so from our own workshop. One great way to prevent "Oh my god I need to go back to my workshop to do this"-syndrome, is to provide a special item for crafters that reach higher ranks, we can attune the item to a certain room in our workshop, and once activated we will be able to gain all the bonuses of that room in the workshop for the next 30 minutes of synthesis. If we're stuck out in the field needing to make something, instead of feeling like it would be a waste to bother without our workshop, and either heading back at tremendous inconvenience, or waiting to make the item, we have this emergency method of gaining the bonuses we've spent our hard earned time and money accruing, even when we're not at home.
  • Crafting Parties! Come on over!
Nothing would rub me the wrong way more than having the chance to build a workshop and then not being able to invite others over to see it. It's a display of our wealth and hard work, and our friends should be able to not only see, but to benefit from it. Allow us to invite friends and party members into our workshops to use the facilities. This creates even more reason for crafters to befriend eachother, it should be possible, but absurdly expensive and time consuming to create and maintain a workshop for all of the crafting professions in one. On the other hand, merely befriending someone of another profession would be a great way to promote player interaction and crafting guilds. Using another person's workshop would of course have some drawbacks, (mostly related to storage) but it's a BYOM (bring your own materials) affair. Let us give out "workshop keys" so our good friends can access our workshops even when we're not around. Heck, perhaps we can even rent out workshop space for profit! Regardless, if my friend has a great weaving workshop and I have a great smithing workshop, we should be able to use eachother's shops, and gain many of the benefits of doing so. It wouldn't hurt to allow us to purchase and upgrade group crafting equipment, either!




Edited, Aug 16th 2011 1:12pm by RamseySylph
#23 Aug 16 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Good
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I want a variation in crafting music, the rest I can live with honestly. I'm not a crafting fan to begin with, in every MMO it's been an ends to a mean. I'm torn on whether I like the crafting/gathering better in this title compared to XI, but in the end I really don't care about the jobs. It's a sacrifice vs benefit situation for me.

Music seems like a small part, but if I'm going to do something I don't prefer... I'd like the same variation in music I get with the classes I do enjoy.
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#24 Aug 16 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a crafter, I would like to have a part in the development of new settlements. All of those little camps that have no purpose could be transformed into a town house by house. Those buildings need work.

I picture a system where the Grand Company might get an order for a party of carpenters to build those. I am picturing a EM style fight from XI that took 4 hours. How about a party of crafters needing to interact for extended periods of time, with a chance of failure. Perhaps if they build that HQ shop, maybe it will raise the pop rate of that Notorious Merchant.

Oh, BTW - grand companies will be needed to feed, fortify, and cloth those settlements as well. How about some tent weaving, iron gates, farms, cheeseburgers, and belts. A couple developments per patch, and the settlements will slowly develop at a controlled rate. I would rather see these settlements grow (much like a recurring town in the Dragon Quest series) than see it all of a sudden pop up in a merical patch. With this system, the door is also opened up for Beastmen DOH/DOL since their settlements will need developing as well.
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#25 Aug 16 2011 at 5:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love this thread so much! As a primary crafter myself a lot if not all these ideas sound exciting! What I would like to see is:

-Ship & Housing repair/management

A NPC in Limsa Lominsa mentions the need for Black Smiths and Armorers needed to build Ships along with serve on them in order to maintain them. Even more interesting is the need of a Cook for crew care.

If they ever do implement player housing then the need for crafters to either build the houses, maintain the houses and contribute with status buffs (mostly in the form of cooks providing meals and Alchimist making medication) would really keep everyone busy as well as productive.
#26 Aug 16 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Patch 1.19 Escort Mission: How about in addition to a party of DoW/DoM to escort, you also need a party of DoH/DoL to speed up the escort. Example, DoH to repair the Carriage when it comes under attack or when it is broken on the road and the NPC repair will be 5 x time as long, DoL to remove fallen tree or rock blocking the road where the NPC equivalent will be 5 x time as long. Finally when the Carriage reaches the Hamlet, DoH/DoL will be required to Parley with NPC to boost reward.
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#27 Aug 17 2011 at 4:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wow, great quality post! Really enjoying this:)

Local Markets:

I would like to have stalls whenever you are crafting outside the city walls. In other words, you sit down to craft (don't know how it works since im not playing yet :p) and an npc with a stall pops up, selling stuff like a bazaar, but he will tell adventurers in a very small radius what is in the bazaar. Of course there should be rules to not let stalls pop up in the immediate vicinity of an entrance point (like right in front), but I really liked the FFXI idea where people would sit right outside Jeuno selling stuff and people would go there. Player-created Market, rows of stalls to make the wild more interesting, I mean, there's plenty of room out there right? A few player created stalls at an outpost for instance, would be a feast to me:) Make sure you can alter colors or maybe a mannequin showing off your best armor. Maybe something like a small Moghouse, without a mog of course, that you can set up almost anywhere. That's something I would really like to see. Or stalls for rent and you can only sit there for a certain amount of time before you have to move shop a while. Say 1 Earth day at a popular location and then you can't get a spot there for about a week. That makes me think of something else:

Advertisement posts:

Not an AH, but something that puts up your adds for stuff you sell at a retainer or stall somewhere, with a clear marker locating where the npc is or where you are. You have to walk to a advertisement pole once in a while to refresh your stats, where you would copy your stalls stats and vendor npc in a city to the pole, so to say. If things get sold, it would automatically be removed off the ad pole of course. Get a trek going of crafters moving around a lot, establishing trade routes, maybe even multilayerd stalls where 2 or more crafter are united in a group, say the Moogle Group: for all your crafts specialising in Blacksmithing and Weaving. Establish a name for yourself so people know who you are and will ask you for crafting specific things. Have the trader groups be listed on a seperate menu at the ad poles for instance.

I liked the rep I got in FFXI and tried to keep it up during playing. I was known for helping out people that needed people to complete certain events or missions, so people asked me to help out or help out find people who were well informed about certain events. I would send tells out to several lsleaders or officers asking if they needed it, or if they could drop a line in their ls to see if people needed it and we usually end up with high skill players trying to help people out that needed something cleared and got something in the process for themselves also. I really liked that, even though I would sometimes get too many tells haha, it certainly made things more interesting. I was also somewhat of a Middleman for some ls, trying to get people to come to events that ls were doing where they would have an excessive amount of drops, so they could sell them to people for a nice price. I would like to see that implemented in crafting as well. Would be fun to see which groups would be able to keep up their rep, by only crafting, for a couple years. Hmmm....

Craft Sharing in Groups (Craft Group levels):

If you could then establish a group and keep it together for a considerable amount of time, say 2 months, you could then share skills with other crafters in the group. Say someone has Weaver leveled to 50 but not Blacksmith, after keeping your group up for 2 months, the Weaver, and all other crafters affiliated with the group, could then craft all Blacksmith recipes till level 10. (does Eve Online do this?) The exception is that you can only have a limited amount of stalls up for the group at all time and the recipes can only be crafted at those stalls, not anywhere else (to keep up the balance with others for crafting recipes that you haven't leveled yourself).

Great thread, keep it up guys!
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#28 Aug 17 2011 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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Khornette wrote:
Patch 1.19 Escort Mission: How about in addition to a party of DoW/DoM to escort, you also need a party of DoH/DoL to speed up the escort. Example, DoH to repair the Carriage when it comes under attack or when it is broken on the road and the NPC repair will be 5 x time as long, DoL to remove fallen tree or rock blocking the road where the NPC equivalent will be 5 x time as long. Finally when the Carriage reaches the Hamlet, DoH/DoL will be required to Parley with NPC to boost reward.



I REALLY like that idea, but the amount of situations it could be used in could create a stale system over time. I suppose randomizing items could alleviate the repetive issue.
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#29 Aug 17 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
Why are there 3~4 R20 Local Leves offered and only one R25 at any given reset?

Separate the Local Leves by increments of 5 (instead of 1, 20 and 40) and offer at least 4 for any given range, per reset.

#30 Aug 17 2011 at 3:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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yeah I would like to see more than 2 gathering leves at each camp too. And MORE VARIETY!

I've been doing the same exact gathering leves since release. blah.
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#31 Aug 17 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Recipe books I can see what I can make and the materials. like I bought tacklecraft book and no idea where to look to see what I can craft from it. I have to tab out to look for recipes. Any other craft in other games you get recipes as rewards or exp and they are always visible. I noticed they had a "recently awarded" and "recently made" tab now, but I would like a listing of all my recipes in game.

Guild marks could be used to buy new recipes and skills and they should be changed out regularly (once a month) on a cycle. It does a couple things it gives players something to look forward to, and makes die hard crafters somewhat different because they are up on not only all the old recipes, but the new as well.So a crafter that took off a month of playing may have missed the last recipes, so the guy who didn't would have more craftable recipes.It really is all about the carrot and looking for the next one that keeps you coming back.
#32 Aug 17 2011 at 9:52 PM Rating: Good
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I sure hope SE is listening. Players give them dozens of pages of frequently well-planned ideas and we get, months later, "I, uh, fixed an error with HP display." Hopefully, now that updates are really picking up, SE is compiling some of these very good ideas for implementation.

Remember, after such a bad launch, FFXIV can't just aim for "release ready," it needs to be pretty good. Now is SE's chance to shape the future direction of a game - go all out! :D
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#33 Aug 20 2011 at 5:49 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Fun


Quote:
Non-Combat


Does not compute.

jk
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#34 Aug 20 2011 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
I got a leve from Gridania that required me to travel to Uldah and get/deliver the materials to Clairoise.

EDIT:The quote didn't get added. Oh well.

EDIT: Fix the HQ system and I will be happy. No reason I should get lots of HQs on a synth while skilling up on it (and getting 700+sp) and 30 ranks later have to make 1000 of them to get a +1 all the while getting a min of 200 quality every single synth.

Edited, Aug 20th 2011 8:57pm by StateAlchemist2

Edited, Aug 20th 2011 9:00pm by StateAlchemist2
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#35 Aug 21 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Seriously Ramsey, I hope you are also posting this on the official forums. Give your Ideas to Square-Enix cause if they actually implemented half these It would turn the game around when it comes to crafting.
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#36 Aug 21 2011 at 9:19 AM Rating: Excellent
Zalim the Charming wrote:
Seriously Ramsey, I hope you are also posting this on the official forums. Give your Ideas to Square-Enix cause if they actually implemented half these It would turn the game around when it comes to crafting.


I agree.
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#37 Aug 21 2011 at 12:02 PM Rating: Good
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Zalim the Charming wrote:
Seriously Ramsey, I hope you are also posting this on the official forums. Give your Ideas to Square-Enix cause if they actually implemented half these It would turn the game around when it comes to crafting.


I agree.
Thirded.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#38 Aug 21 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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Guess I'll have to toss it up there when I get a moment then. I expect you all to bump it if that's the case!
#39 Aug 21 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
RamseySylph wrote:
Guess I'll have to toss it up there when I get a moment then. I expect you all to bump it if that's the case!

Hurry up your not posting it fast enough. :O
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#40 Aug 21 2011 at 4:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Having a hard time synthesizing that particular item to HQ? Get a group of your craft, Blacksmith etc., and increase your chances. Having a rank to benefit ratio just like DoW. A group of Blacksmiths all within 5 ranks of each other giving the best group bonus and a group within 5 levels of the item to be crafted for the best item bonus. The bonus decreasing the farther the level spread is.

The idea from above of player workshops would work fabulously in tandem with this. Maybe a workshop level would restrict how many Blacksmiths would be able to enter at a time and a workshop would required for this type of group synthesizing. The tool idea mentioned above could also work with this.
#41 Aug 21 2011 at 4:17 PM Rating: Good
Nalamwen wrote:
Having a hard time synthesizing that particular item to HQ? Get a group of your craft, Blacksmith etc., and increase your chances. Having a rank to benefit ratio just like DoW. A group of Blacksmiths all within 5 ranks of each other giving the best group bonus and a group within 5 levels of the item to be crafted for the best item bonus. The bonus decreasing the farther the level spread is.

The idea from above of player workshops would work fabulously in tandem with this. Maybe a workshop level would restrict how many Blacksmiths would be able to enter at a time and a workshop would required for this type of group synthesizing. The tool idea mentioned above could also work with this.


While I like the idea, the ones who would benefit most from this is RMT with nearly limitless access to multiple accounts simultaneously. After Level Cap increases RMT would dominate crafting and drive up prices, ruining the economy.

:(
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#42 Aug 21 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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For those of you who asked, this thread is now over at the official forums.

If you've made a suggestion you feel belongs over there, please toss it over there. I ported my stuff over rather quickly and didn't have time to grab everyone's ideas, but I did link back here. Don't let the thread die here though! If you have a new idea, and you want, post it in both places!

Also, bump the thread on the official forums and thumbs up it if you like it!
#43 Aug 21 2011 at 6:03 PM Rating: Default
42 posts
all these works if this is a single player game like Recettear

the biggest mistake made for this game is having crafting as a 'main' class. now the developers are having a hard time 'balancing' the game between combat class and non-combat class, just so those who wants to control the economy are having their share of 'fun'.

the current state of the game proves this point.
#44 Aug 21 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
RamseySylph wrote:
For those of you who asked, this thread is now over at the official forums.

If you've made a suggestion you feel belongs over there, please toss it over there. I ported my stuff over rather quickly and didn't have time to grab everyone's ideas, but I did link back here. Don't let the thread die here though! If you have a new idea, and you want, post it in both places!

Also, bump the thread on the official forums and thumbs up it if you like it!
Seriously people, get on board, and help the thread on the official forum out.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#45 Aug 21 2011 at 6:54 PM Rating: Good
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I think you put it in the wrong forum though

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If you wish to submit feedback or make suggestions about the game, please make a post in the appropriate forum.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#46 Aug 21 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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cutsaw wrote:
all these works if this is a single player game like Recettear

the biggest mistake made for this game is having crafting as a 'main' class. now the developers are having a hard time 'balancing' the game between combat class and non-combat class, just so those who wants to control the economy are having their share of 'fun'.

the current state of the game proves this point.



This is a foolish and narrow minded response. Hey Docent where are you? (Hah) This is possibly the saddest response to see from the community. The belief that crafters "control" the economy and adding any features to make crafting enjoyable is a mistake, that they shouldn't be primary classes, because it will just give us more "control."

Many of the above ideas outline ways to ensure equality and stability between the various disciplines. (Combat, and crafting and gathering.) The reality is, as an adventurer, unless you are primarily focused on hunting for materials, or searching for treasure, you shouldn't have as much control over the economy as someone who is main timing as a merchant.

There's nothing wrong with that as long as you can afford the various items out there. Are you going to have to pay a markup on a finished item from the materials cost? YES! ******* OF COURSE YOU ARE.

The same way that a crafter is going to have to pay more gil than it would cost for a material from a monster, than if they just went out and got it themselves.

If you didn't have to pay a markup on an item, there would be NO POINT to being a crafter.

If you're so stubborn that you don't want to pay for these services, find a friend to dupe into making the item for you. Or actually make friends with a crafter, and they may even offer to make you the item.

The reality is, unless you want insane luxury gear, you're currently not even paying a huge markup.

Regardless, all of these things can be balanced without nerfing the fun that crafters are having, and potentially could be having, into oblivion.
#47 Aug 21 2011 at 8:11 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, I don't get the hostility towards people who craft making a profit off their goods. Last I checked, folks with battle classes were charging a TON for apkullu down.
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lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#48 Aug 21 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Haters gonna hate.
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#49 Aug 21 2011 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good
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Essentially, giving toys for crafters to play with have no effect on the price people pay for items.

Shard cost, mats cost and value of your time = sell price. Then you factor in offer/demand

If offer is high (too many crafters, not enough buyers), then you have to price low.

If price is low, then crafting is no longer profitable, and therefore crafters cannot sustain themselves from solely doing that.

If crafters have to stop crafting (for example, to go hunt monsters for money/shards they can't get from crafting), then they stop buying what the hunters/adventurers get.

If hunters/adventurers stop selling things because crafters are self-sufficient, then they can't afford the items that are sold.

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My biggest gripe with this game's crafting system is that you need to craft WAY TOO MANY ITEMS to rank up. And once you do rank up, usually, you craft EVEN MORE OF THE SAME ITEM for another entire rank. And another.

This means every crafter brings way too many goods in circulation --- way more that they can ever sell/get rid of.

Which means they either have to NPC it or stop crafting because they ran out of room/money.

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TLDR:
Giving crafters stuff they can do to skill up that is more fun and less harmful to the economy than crafting over and over and over is a good thing, in the end, for everyone.
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#50 Aug 21 2011 at 10:53 PM Rating: Decent
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cutsaw wrote:
the biggest mistake made for this game is having crafting as a 'main' class. now the developers are having a hard time 'balancing' the game between combat class and non-combat class, just so those who wants to control the economy are having their share of 'fun'.

Wrong.

There have been far worse mistakes made in FFXIV than crafting classes, and your reason as to why crafting classes are "the biggest mistake" is unfounded. Squenix could sweep crafting under the rug as they did with DRG, DRK and BST in FFXI; if SE continually ignores any pleas for change, players will tingle with persecution and become even more enamored with their "forgotten job." The crafters in FFXIV won't stop crafting, even if the crafting content to come is as monotonous as it has ever been. Besides, people choose to craft in MMOs when it isn't advertised as a "main" class--really, I'm serious! People choose to craft! The difference in FFXIV is that you have disgruntled crafters expecting more content than usual for their trade; they won't accept they are a class in name only. But this does not mean SE has to compromise battle content for crafter content. As long as crafters can produce items (and gatherers collect materials) the system is fully functional, and crafter content remains a secondary concern.

What you are correct about, however, is that a lot of the suggestions in this thread would meld together better in a single-player experience. I think, in devising some of these hot ideas, people forget there are potentially thousands of other people doing the same thing on your server. These may fly if the server populations stay low, but that's self-defeating. You have to think MMO big. Fun is only half the synthesis.

But this is just a thread for fun, right? It's not like we're going to ship it off to the official for--

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#51 Aug 21 2011 at 11:18 PM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:
cutsaw wrote:
the biggest mistake made for this game is having crafting as a 'main' class. now the developers are having a hard time 'balancing' the game between combat class and non-combat class, just so those who wants to control the economy are having their share of 'fun'.

Wrong.

I think, in devising some of these hot ideas, people forget there are potentially thousands of other people doing the same thing on your server. These may fly if the server populations stay low, but that's self-defeating. You have to think MMO big. Fun is only half the synthesis.

But this is just a thread for fun, right? It's not like we're going to ship it off to the official for--



I don't take umbrage with this claim directly, though I do wish to know which ideas you are specifically referring to. Many of my ideas at least, while born with fun in mind first and foremost, were also crafted with economic problems in mind and the idea that the systems would exist within the larger context of an MMO world. If there are some that you fail in that regard, please specify! (Critique is gold.)

Incidentally, people need to realize that what makes a game fun in a single player experience does not dramatically change when other players are introduced. What's fun stays fun. What's not fun may become fun. And what is fun may break a larger experience. These are the things that happen.

Assuming your fun doesn't break the larger world, there is no reason to make it less fun. There are also plenty of reasons to create experiences that are enjoyable that do not require other players to be present. (Though they should not be the focus, and these experiences are only better and more useful, should they been content that can scale to allow for others.)



PS. This thread is in fact just for fun. Because fun is something we want to have while playing.

Edited, Aug 21st 2011 10:22pm by RamseySylph
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