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Fun for Non-Combat Classes - What do you want?Follow

#52 Aug 22 2011 at 3:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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i think your thread in the official forum, while in the right place???, probably would have got a lot more attention in the general forum. It needs serious attention and love or it will fall by the wayside.



I posted this on the thread but i'l copy it here for ease of reference:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/21773-Fun-for-Non-Combat-Classes-What-we-want?p=305705#post305705

I posted the following in the crafting thread a few days ago but it got lost in the discussion as the thread got spammed with people's thoughts. Basically, its linked to the OP's idea of "Workshops"


forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/21435-o.O-Overkill-on-the-crafting-Dumb-down?p=299765#post299765


Quote:
The player crafter should have been involved in the fine tuning of gear. For example, a crafter with tailoring training should have been able to choose what stitch pattern appeared on a shirt. Alternatively they could choose how long a shirt is or what cut it has at the neck and how low down it goes. A crafter with painting training could choose what type of stroke or design to use. An alchemist with training could have chosen to adapt their concuctions similar to say how spells and potions are adjusted in Elder Scrolls games - say I wanted a fire potion I could make one that was just a Fire1 spell or I could make one thats all shiny like a firework depending on the variables I adapt in the crafting process.

Crossclassing could have come into things after a class has made an item. If I was a Blacksmith and I made a marauder axe for example, let me go and find an alchemist who could apply an elemental or status potion so I can have a native enspell effect. Perhaps the effect would disappear when the condition goes to 0% and after repair an alchemist needs to be sought again (hey this is an MMO lets socialise!). As another example, let my blacksmith craft my axe, but then when it is made let me hand it to a leatherworker to attach a grip which would boost the accuracy by a few percent. Again as condition wears that grip wears so you are back to base accuracy.

Also, SE should have adjusted how crafting is done. In the field I wouldnt mind whipping out my crafting item as we do now, but back in the cities or hamlets I would have liked to be crafting my shirt on a mannequin so I can see the changes made by different parts and select the ones I want. Thats another issue, parts and stuff should have been customisable, say I want a cotton shirt with a cotton patch on the elbow, why not let me make a cotton shirt with a metal elbow if I wanted to. Sadly this comes down to a design fault with the game, instead of implementing gear in parts we only have the full item.

If crafting included fine tuning every stage, then everyone would love there being so many parts to play around with. It would have turned crafters into full on dedicated jobs (coz quite literally those who love crafting would literally do nothing else if there was that amount of customisation) and Tanaka's dream would have been realised possibly.




With respect the idea of dungeons or of adventurers protecting gatherers, why not add a twist. Say, the battle group goes down a mine or dungeon but the walls cave in. The gatherers must find a way to clear the way. Miners can simply take out their pickaxe whereas others would need to detonate mines etc. This is all very general and straight off the top of my head thinking about assaults in FF11 (lebros caverns anyone lol) and WOTG mission with that scholar detonating mines i recall.



Regarding the actual mini-game for
a) gatherers - after a while, people tend to know what notch etc they need to use. Why not just build up automatic annotations on each notch as we discover things. It saves us having to look at third party websites. Include achievements for discovering all items etc.

b) the crafters - the minigame doesnt cut it. I would rather have some form of Sphere Grid even with different routes to take so that I can manipulate any aspect of the item I am trying to make. After that the touch up aspect could remain to try and HQ. For example, say I wanted to make a Lance with uber accuracy but allign it with Water or Piercing I would need to pick my routes along the grid to emphasie those aspects. On the other hand say I wanted to to make a set of armour for the tank alligned to Fire so he could take less damage from Tiamat (;-x) I could focus on that. Of course I have no idea what blocks the progression on the grid. It might take 5 minutes to craft something but I would feel I have directly manipulated the outcome.




Regarding Local Levequests - these should have a bearing on evolving the camp. Buildings/Tents should be erected and services offered. An inn, a chocobo pen, a garden, etc. Basically merge the hamlets idea into Camps. The Camps at the present time are really not immersive because they all look exactly the same. I would rather have come across smaller unique settlements like were put in the recent update. As an aside, allow for these constructed Camps to be raided by beastmen and garleans. Buildings can be damaged or destroyed, repaired or are built again when enough leves are processed. Camps should have the possibility to become as large as Hamlets. It seems absurd there is only one city and 2 hamlets in each region. I would love to come across Camps as big as say Owl's Nest in Coerthas. Allow more buildings to be erected and in turn add NPCs to the realm offering quests. Employ DoW/DoM support by making fully built up Camps housing an NPC who offers weaponskill quests or Trial of the Magian style quests for example. So basically, the DoW and DoM have an incentive to join in with protecting these settlements in the long term.



Implement specialisations based upon city and/or beastmen allegiances. What I mean by this, is that is say I wanted to be a heretical goldsmith, I could head down to the Amaljaa equivalent of the goldsmith guild and work my way up its ranks while at the same time being expelled from the Uldah goldsmith guild. Instead of making fancy pants jewellery for nobles in Uldah I could learn how to make enchanted jewellery from Almaljaa. Or perhaps the Amaljaa goldsmith can process a certain ore that an Uldah one cannot, and vice versa. Basically encourage specialisations. Everyone can be a rank 50 goldsmith, but only 50% can be alligned to Uldah. This would help diversify the markets. I'm surprised SE didnt do this with the books/training.



Implement recipe books, make it look like a book too, the UI is ugly :(
Let us customise the recipe books to our liking or needs. Implement achievements. Each crafted thing adds one recipe page!


Allow us to... Customise Recipes?....
From the ridiculous a) swapping metal for moko grass when making a Haubergeon lol,
to the more curious b) but what if I add a few raptor talons in my haubergeon recipe as well
or the more item mixing thing of past FF's c) What happens if I toss an Ether and Potion into this Orange Juice?.... Do I get an MegaElixir?
That would give crafting the sense of experimentation that the armoury system had initialy (before release who else was thinking hmmm if I boost my gladiator with x stat x element and x skill I can make an uber tank against a beast or a plantoid or a magic based mob etc etc)



There is so much potential in crafting and in this game, and I sincerely hope Yoshi-P isnt going to go the easy way out and just turn it into FF11's crafting system which is circa 2002.... This game needs a "world" not a Themepark.

Edited, Aug 22nd 2011 5:11pm by Altanass
#53 Aug 22 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I beleive the simple things realy make all the differance, if there is dye to make a cloth/leather/metal that color then we should be able to use whatever colored matterial in the recipy and have it come out with those colors.

Items tell you they are made with "such and such", trimmed with "blah". This should be where the color markers are IMO.

To that end the ability to preview how items will look on us would be nice.
#54 Aug 22 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Nalamwen wrote:
Having a hard time synthesizing that particular item to HQ? Get a group of your craft, Blacksmith etc., and increase your chances. Having a rank to benefit ratio just like DoW. A group of Blacksmiths all within 5 ranks of each other giving the best group bonus and a group within 5 levels of the item to be crafted for the best item bonus. The bonus decreasing the farther the level spread is.

The idea from above of player workshops would work fabulously in tandem with this. Maybe a workshop level would restrict how many Blacksmiths would be able to enter at a time and a workshop would required for this type of group synthesizing. The tool idea mentioned above could also work with this.


While I like the idea, the ones who would benefit most from this is RMT with nearly limitless access to multiple accounts simultaneously. After Level Cap increases RMT would dominate crafting and drive up prices, ruining the economy.

:(



I agree that RMT would also benefit from this but money doesn't seem to be an issue with XIV.

Even if it were though, the Dev's should work on other means to limit RMT than restricting aspects that could be incredibly entertaining for honest players.
#55 Aug 22 2011 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
Nalamwen wrote:
Grand Master Alchemist StateAlchemist2 wrote:
Nalamwen wrote:
Having a hard time synthesizing that particular item to HQ? Get a group of your craft, Blacksmith etc., and increase your chances. Having a rank to benefit ratio just like DoW. A group of Blacksmiths all within 5 ranks of each other giving the best group bonus and a group within 5 levels of the item to be crafted for the best item bonus. The bonus decreasing the farther the level spread is.

The idea from above of player workshops would work fabulously in tandem with this. Maybe a workshop level would restrict how many Blacksmiths would be able to enter at a time and a workshop would required for this type of group synthesizing. The tool idea mentioned above could also work with this.


While I like the idea, the ones who would benefit most from this is RMT with nearly limitless access to multiple accounts simultaneously. After Level Cap increases RMT would dominate crafting and drive up prices, ruining the economy.

:(



I agree that RMT would also benefit from this but money doesn't seem to be an issue with XIV.

Even if it were though, the Dev's should work on other means to limit RMT than restricting aspects that could be incredibly entertaining for honest players.

Money doesn't seem to be an issue now, with a limited player-base and nearly limitless supply of materials. Once the core mechanics of the game are fixed, the economy will be adjusted I am sure. That and the introduction of an AH will change things a lot (I assume they are still planning on implementing an AH at some point). Once new players join the game (PS3 launch for example), things will dramatically change.

tldr: I am sure SE will make adjustments to the economy at some point.
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#56 Aug 24 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
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The Garlean Invasion (Campaign)
We know it's coming, and if it's not it ought to be. (there's nothing more dissatisfying than playing a game for years set entirely on "the brink of war") There's just loads to talk about here, fun possibilities and ideas, the obvious ones involve combat classes, but I'm going to instead look at the less obvious, non-combat focused content.

First things first, I'm going to base all of these ideas around the idea that these invasions would work in a way that's a cross between RIFT's Rift system, and FFXI's Campaign system. But most of these ideas could be applied regardless of what way they choose to tackle it. A mixture of small attacks and raids, with outpost control and less-frequent larger scale zone-wide invasions where Dreadnaughts are flying around and the music and lighting change, combined with a Campaign style ops.

Let's not let the combat players have all the fun!

Resource Drive!
This is a pretty obvious one, a la Campaign, resources should be integral to the war effort! We need a lot of transparency here though, it should be easy to see how the resources are distributed in any given area, what resources are needed, where they are needed etc. Disciples of the Land should be able to accept Ops at various locations to gather resources, which are then added to the total for the region. (For EXP and war credits) Possibly also allowing unwanted resources to be donated to the effort (as an alternative to being vendored.) When excess of certain resources are generated in one area, and needed in another, delivery OPs could be added, as well as convoy escort OPs for combat classes, that would, if successful, relocate those resources to wherever they are more needed.

Processing Resources
Materials are useless in their raw forms, so put disciplines of the hand to work processing them into ingots/plates/string/leather/nails etc. These ops are made available as raw materials become available. Raw materials and resource processing should occur without these ops being complete, but only at a minimal rate that is required for bare minimum functionality within the camps. Resource processing would be best if it occurred at specific locations, be it hamlets or outposts with crafting facilities.

Industrial Centers
As mentioned in the above note, it would be best to be wary of player distribution with the invasion content. Repairs are one thing, but it makes sense to have the processing of raw materials occur in a location with facilities. Ore processing ops for instanced offered in a larger outpost, camp or hamlet that has a refinery. Aside from a sense of believe-ability, it also accomplishes many other things. Prevents unnecessary amounts of running around (while a primary mechanic for DoL, this is not the case for DoH), provides key locations that are important to defend in the supply chain; adding depth, centralizes crafters; creating specific locations everyone acting as part of the war effort knows they can go to in order to get certain types of repairs. This is the option for the crafter that is focused on being part of the industrial machine, and mainly doing work in heavily populated areas.

Field Repairs
For those crafters that are more interested in a little travel and exploration, ops offered to head out into the field and make repairs on outposts and NPC equipment should be offered regularly as needed by the war effort. Various classes will have different leves, to repair very different types of things, but that a-symmetry is what will give each a unique feel for their role in the war effort. Culinarians for instance, would have tasks to go to various camps and cook on the spot, and feed the hungry soldiers, as there are obviously no culinarian repairs.

Open the Way!
Broken gates, destroyed bridges and rock-slides, as long as they never fully block off a path (but simply force players and NPCs to take longer routes) that require DoH and DoL presence to clear and repair, would be an excellent feature. The Garleans who would primarily drop troops off via airship would be less adversely affected by this, thus creating a very good reason for these missions to take high priority. Let miners do some blasting!

Salvaging the Parts
After a battle, there's always a need to salvage any equipment, parts or weapons that may have been left behind. Whether it's parts from a crashed Garlean airship or merely weapons taken from allied corpses. As grim as it may be, it's an op that has its place.

Setting Traps
Disciples of the Hand are often out and about the countryside, ops to set traps in key locations in order to thwart Garlean invasion would be the perfect opportunity for their trips through the land to contribute to the war efforts. These traps could be assembled by DoH at various locations and then transported and deployed by DoL during their gathering trips.

Reconnaissance
Keeping tabs on the movements and number of Garlean attacks and encampments is important to everyone, updating the map so players can see where they are needed, and head off enemy invasions. Though these sorts of missions needn't be explicitly for DoL players, they are non-combat missions that would work well for the class. Players should be able to accept and report on these OPs through an NPC linkpearl (this should be the case for many OPs, to prevent what happened in XI, where a player would see something happening in Campaign that they could help with, such as a beastman delivery, or recon mission, but would not because they'd receive no reward without the OP previously accepted.)

To your Posts! Our role in Battle!
When the fighting actually starts, there are roles that non-combatants would be more than apt to perform. Whether it's repairing battlements and cannons etc as needed, or setting traps, etc. There's more than a few ideas to come up with here.

Let's work Together!
There are various ideas in my previous posts that could be adapted to use within the context of a campaign style system, and many of these ideas could be adapted to promote simultaneous play between adventurers, gatherers and crafters. Whether it be gathering resources while adventurers protect from Garlean raids, parts of destroyed bridges being salvaged by gatherers while crafters repair it, or what have you, there are many opportunities here. Using a public quest style system to promote cross class play, would be the most un-invasive way of introducing it to the player base, and warming everyone up to the idea.

#57 Aug 24 2011 at 7:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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I love your ideas Ramsey! SE would be wise to listen to them, they sound like a ton of fun!

Culinarian
Not a crafter but a cook.

The Culinarian is never going to be able to repair anything, and they aren't going to be doing much work with other crafters. The empire is attacking! and what can we do? throw pies at them...?

No! A cook should stand apart from his fellow crafting brethren but still be just as important! This would mean some changes to some basics for cooks but could also add alot of fun.

Drinks are not food
Drinks and food should always be separate. Players need to be able to have both effects at the same time. I'm not sure about you but drinking some apple juice is not going to fill my belly! This also increases the amount of products a cook is making and selling.

Salt and pepper make everything better
More so then any class the Culinarian should be able to mix it up with recipes. Little more salt on your Grilled Dodo? how about some pepper for your Smoked Raptor? Some races might enjoy the spice and get a slightly better benefit then it, and others might want it dipped in butter. Now this wouldn't be true for all recipes, but as they say "variety is the spice of life"

Make that meal to go
A tasty Aldgoat Steak is nice...but its not a meal. Mix it with Stuffed Artichoke and maybe some Cornbread to go with it and we have a meal! Eating some things alone are nice, but it would be nice if a Culinarian could combine completed foods into a meal. This could have some added status effects that could combine that attributes of the foods put into the meal. You can't cook materia into Walnut Bread so why not eat it with Pea Soup for HP and MP boost?

Sweet chef or savory chef
The cooking world tends to separate who makes great cookies from who can grill up good meat. Make Culinarian's specialize wouldn't be a terrible thing, as it would allow cooks to focus on HQ foods and also work with fellow cooks and not just against. My Deviled Eggs may not do to much for your attack, but my Apple Tart's will really boost your magic potency!

Can I have dessert with my meal?
This goes along with the meal and drink idea. Making sweets and added effect on top of a meal and drink effect might seem like alot, but if it can only be applied after eating a meal (finish your food before dessert please!) and only a slight increase in stats would make it beneficial, allow for really customizing your status bonuses and make your character all the more satisfied with the food!

Cooks need a major boost and with how much can be done with food, plenty of fun and effective ways to be productive can be had!
#58 Aug 24 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Good
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This has got to be the best read for me between FFXI & FFXIV!

I spent 7+ years on FFXI and my highest level was 56 because all I pretty much did was hunt for treasure (materials) and craft and many similar things (Chocobo Digging, Harvesting & Gardening ect). I NEVER purchased anything I needed to craft or grow or what have you.

Many of these ideas would hit the nail right on the head for me. Not that I don't enjoy a little blood shed now and then, but I would be in heaven and die at my PC if a lot of these things were implemented.

I thought I read before the game came out that there would be group crafters that would be able to build airships and alike? That's was something that stood out for me in wanting to pick this game up.

I commend you guys for the imagination and or drive to come up with these ideas for a person like me that would seriously go nuts that really don't have the ability to conjure up this stuff!

Here's to hoping they take a good look at it.
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#59 Aug 28 2011 at 5:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Just wanted those who have been double-posting on the official forum or who had started to watch the thread there, that I've moved it to the Items, Synthesis & Gathering forum.

Apparently the feedback & suggestions forum, despite the majority of the content there, is actually intended for website and forum feedback. (lol)
#60 Sep 01 2011 at 8:12 PM Rating: Good
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Just an interesting bit of nostalgia for us crafters, screenshots from before the game came out. Once upon a time, they actually had plans for us!

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/if0rog.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/fk7la1.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/2vt2pao.jpg

Credits go to Sephrick of Rabanastre on the official forums for bringing these back to my attention.

SquareEnix wrote:
In addition, we are currently working on several new ideas such as leves in which Disciples of the Land and Hand must cooperate with Disciples of War and Magic to complete certain tasks.
#63 Sep 09 2011 at 7:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Another to add to the list, a variation, or rather an addition to the idea of player-to-player leves.


Quote:
Trade Contracts

Player-to-player levequests are all well and good, and would be a fantastic way of adding more content for players, and allowing players to requisition other players to obtain materials for them.

With that said, often times, crafters are looking for massive quantities of materials. The diligent crafter is always looking ahead, at what they will need next. But even the most diligent crafter would have hard time posting requisition after requisition for smaller amounts of ingredients.

That's where player contracts come in.

By forming a contract, two players could establish a constant channel through which to move goods at a set price. Armorer looking to purchase huge quantities of iron ore? Form a contract with a miner, hand off some gil to your retainer and place a spending limit, or an item limit.

The players would agree upon:
  • Duration of contract
  • Buying price per unit
  • Spending/Item limit
  • Seller collateral


The collateral would be optional, as a guarantee that the seller won't back out once the contract is writ up.

The seller could deliver the contract items to the buyer's retainer, even when they are offline.

The system would be a great way for gatherers to have guaranteed sales before they head out into the field. It would also increase player interaction, and form the kind of trade union style bonds I believe SE was looking to establish.

Leveling up your retainer (if they ever add it) could unlock more simultaneous contract slots, but it shouldn't be incredibly limited to start.

Gatherers can sell harder to sell and NQ items, with ease and convenience, and crafters can get massive quantities of items, at lower prices or in steadier supply.

Gatherers who wish to do so, can still sell items on the ward, such as HQ materials. As there will still be plenty of less patient crafters that plan ahead or bother with contracts.

Sorry that this post got a bit long-winded and rambling!

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 6:12pm by RamseySylph
#64 Sep 11 2011 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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RamseySylph wrote:
Just an interesting bit of nostalgia for us crafters, screenshots from before the game came out. Once upon a time, they actually had plans for us!

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/if0rog.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/fk7la1.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/2vt2pao.jpg

Credits go to Sephrick of Rabanastre on the official forums for bringing these back to my attention.

SquareEnix wrote:
In addition, we are currently working on several new ideas such as leves in which Disciples of the Land and Hand must cooperate with Disciples of War and Magic to complete certain tasks.


Oh, what this game could (should) have been... (T_T)
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#65 Sep 11 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Good
RamseySylph wrote:
Just an interesting bit of nostalgia for us crafters, screenshots from before the game came out. Once upon a time, they actually had plans for us!

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/if0rog.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/fk7la1.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m312/jayzubs/2vt2pao.jpg

Credits go to Sephrick of Rabanastre on the official forums for bringing these back to my attention.

SquareEnix wrote:
In addition, we are currently working on several new ideas such as leves in which Disciples of the Land and Hand must cooperate with Disciples of War and Magic to complete certain tasks.
I want one of those rocket launchers.
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#66 Sep 11 2011 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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There are a lot of good ideas in this thread. I still like the idea of playing the game just as a crafter. Not having to adventure out of town sounds great. No reason a cook or an alchemist should have to adventure out to do their work, I thought that was kind of the point.

OP, you should compile these thoughts and post them on the offical lodestone suggestion forums.
#67 Sep 11 2011 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Vawn43 wrote:
There are a lot of good ideas in this thread. I still like the idea of playing the game just as a crafter. Not having to adventure out of town sounds great. No reason a cook or an alchemist should have to adventure out to do their work, I thought that was kind of the point.

OP, you should compile these thoughts and post them on the offical lodestone suggestion forums.


See earlier post in thread:

RamseySylph wrote:
For those of you who asked, this thread is now over at the official forums.

If you've made a suggestion you feel belongs over there, please toss it over there. I ported my stuff over rather quickly and didn't have time to grab everyone's ideas, but I did link back here. Don't let the thread die here though! If you have a new idea, and you want, post it in both places!

Also, bump the thread on the official forums and thumbs up it if you like it!


Also, little known fact, the feedback forum on the official forums is for feedback for the website and forums themselves. Feedback on game mechanics should be placed in the forum corresponding to that individual item. In this case I placed it in Items & Synthesis.

Anyway, if you haven't already, please go and show your support by bumping the topic over there, and giving it a big "Like."
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