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Abolition of Physical Levels / Attribute Point RevisionsFollow

#1 Aug 30 2011 at 4:19 AM Rating: Good
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/11070?p=141396#post141396

* These revisions, planned for patch 1.19, are still in development, and therefore subject to change.
Patch 1.19 will see the abolition of physical levels.
Along with this change, the following adjustments will be made:

Abolition of Attribute and Element Points
Attribute and element points will be abolished, and character development will be automated based on class level. A system whereby players can voluntarily allocate attribute points to each class will be implemented in patch 1.20 or later, along with class balance adjustments.

Introduction of Automated Character Development
Automated character development will be implemented in patch 1.19, and will entail the following changes:
The growth curve will be revised, with each gain in level to be accompanied by greater increases in attributes.
Attributes will be made to have greater impact.
The impact of attributes will decrease as players gain in level; however, the benefits granted by gear will be increased.

Player accuracy will be increased slightly.
Race-based differences will be limited to the starting attributes.
Revisions to Terminology
The following in-game terms will be renamed.
Skill points -> Experience points
Rank -> Level




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Edited, Aug 30th 2011 6:20am by Inboundwar
#2 Aug 30 2011 at 4:32 AM Rating: Decent
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SE wrote:
The growth curve will be revised, with each gain in level to be accompanied by greater increases in attributes.
Attributes will be made to have greater impact.
The impact of attributes will decrease as players gain in level; however, the benefits granted by gear will be increased.

I don't see the point. They're increasing the quantity of attribute points you get as you level, but limiting their effect. So they are going to calculate attributes differently at every level instead of just having a flat 1 dexterity = 2 accuracy(example) sort of model? This would work better if it were tiered instead of on a curve. I can see this causing issues or needing to be fixed later on if they increase the cap.

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#3 Aug 30 2011 at 5:10 AM Rating: Good
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I think it's a good idea. It means people always need to keep on top of their gear to be most effective.

(And let's face it, the current system is bloody awful.)
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#4 Aug 30 2011 at 5:22 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree - I think anything other then the current system will be an improvement.

It's nice being able to assign points but we'll get that back in 1.20 hopefully.
#5 Aug 30 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
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I think it pretty much means that the system will end up similar to WoW; at low level, attributes come mainly from your level. As you grow, attributes start being 50% level : 50% gear, and at endgame, the gear will take an even greater chunk.

Ex.:
Level 1: 16 str, +0 str from gear
Level 30: 60 str, +60 str from gear
Level 50: 90 str, +180 str from gear

I can live with that, but I do dislike it when a character's power comes mostly from what he wears.
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#6 Aug 30 2011 at 6:58 AM Rating: Decent
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If this means i never have to reassign points again, am happy.
As long as they don't crap up the math, a curve will work fine.
Simple quadratic curve, would be best easy math.. and good growth to level ratio


Edited, Aug 30th 2011 8:58am by TwiddleDee
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#7 Aug 30 2011 at 7:06 AM Rating: Decent
The only thing that could be bad is if it makes crafting worse somehow. Crossing my fingers.
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#8 Aug 30 2011 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I can live with that, but I do dislike it when a character's power comes mostly from what he wears.


It was like that in XI, acceptthe materia and crafting systems seem to promise we'll have more than one piece of gear to choose from.

No more SH/Hauby/Assault Jerkin, we might actually get to personalize ourselves a little.
#9 Aug 30 2011 at 8:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
I think it pretty much means that the system will end up similar to WoW; at low level, attributes come mainly from your level. As you grow, attributes start being 50% level : 50% gear, and at endgame, the gear will take an even greater chunk.

Ex.:
Level 1: 16 str, +0 str from gear
Level 30: 60 str, +60 str from gear
Level 50: 90 str, +180 str from gear

I can live with that, but I do dislike it when a character's power comes mostly from what he wears.


I highly doubt this will be the case, i can see it as: 60% base, ~40% from stats

Level 1: 16 str, +0 str from gear
Level 30: 60 str, +20~30 str from gear
Level 50: 90 str, +70~80 str from gear

When have you seen gear double the base in XI? Par or close to is were it usually stood.
As for gear overshadowing base like in wow, i don't see it. Even with HQ vs NQ items in XI, the difference in the 2 was not make or brake, for most items (not all) it was +1~2 to a stat.




Edited, Aug 30th 2011 10:06am by TwiddleDee
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#10 Aug 30 2011 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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I worry slightly that this is happening in 2 patches. Really, I'm just worried when it comes to SE and Auto Assigning attributes to Rangers and Archers.

I mean it will only be for a patch but I can see my hp, vit, and mp being cut in half....
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#11 Aug 30 2011 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Personaly I liked assigning stats, but the system they had needed serious work anyway.

I just hope that all these changes doesn't end up giving us a prettier version of FFXI, cause... "If I wanted to go back to XI I would have." :P
#12 Aug 30 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Good
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Heh I'm loosing track of exactly where all these changes will take us in say six months time.
Is there any future for the whole armoury system, does anyone actually like it?
I don't.
#13 Aug 30 2011 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the info... I was so going to rate you up until...


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#14 Aug 30 2011 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Attribute and element points will be abolished, and character development will be automated based on class level. A system whereby players can voluntarily allocate attribute points to each class will be implemented in patch 1.20 or later, along with class balance adjustments.


Now see this is exactly what they did with the MP costs. Why would you implement something before it's ready? They increase MP costs with reasons in mind that they don't implement until later.

They implement a new system where the physical level is gone and remove the ability to rearrange stats only to implement it at a yet unknown time.

For ***** sake, why implement something that is only HALF done?! Hold on until the whole thing is ready.

I understand, I really do. They have ideas, but don't implement half the idea with no explanation on why you did it and then let players rage cause you broke a part of the game until the other half is implemented.
#15 Aug 30 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
They implement a new system where the physical level is gone and remove the ability to rearrange stats only to implement it at a yet unknown time.

For @#%^s sake, why implement something that is only HALF done?! Hold on until the whole thing is ready.


Because they need testing; and because there are too many changes to "hold on" until the whole game is fixed. You're not paying. They're not saying the game is ready. The vast majority of the population voted in favour of "drastic alterations" to the game.

It's like complaining about the bumpiness of a road during the months that a construction crew is fixing it. Sometimes you can't just dump smooth pavement on top and expect it to be finished. As with road construction, so with FFXIV: groundwork must be done and, quite often, it's going to be a messy process.
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#16 Aug 30 2011 at 2:43 PM Rating: Decent
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
Quote:
Attribute and element points will be abolished, and character development will be automated based on class level. A system whereby players can voluntarily allocate attribute points to each class will be implemented in patch 1.20 or later, along with class balance adjustments.


Now see this is exactly what they did with the MP costs. Why would you implement something before it's ready? They increase MP costs with reasons in mind that they don't implement until later.

They implement a new system where the physical level is gone and remove the ability to rearrange stats only to implement it at a yet unknown time.

For @#%^s sake, why implement something that is only HALF done?! Hold on until the whole thing is ready.

I understand, I really do. They have ideas, but don't implement half the idea with no explanation on why you did it and then let players rage cause you broke a part of the game until the other half is implemented.


I am giving the benefit of the doubt by saying:

Because they are remaking the game while letting us still play. They have to remove entire systems just to retool it. It's like.. have you ever developed anything in Flash? When something messes up in my coding or animation it is almost ALWAYS easier to redo it than to try to fix what broke.

So... give them a break. It ain't easy programming a new game that stays online while you do it.
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#17 Aug 30 2011 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
Quote:
Attribute and element points will be abolished, and character development will be automated based on class level. A system whereby players can voluntarily allocate attribute points to each class will be implemented in patch 1.20 or later, along with class balance adjustments.


Now see this is exactly what they did with the MP costs. Why would you implement something before it's ready? They increase MP costs with reasons in mind that they don't implement until later.

They implement a new system where the physical level is gone and remove the ability to rearrange stats only to implement it at a yet unknown time.

For @#%^s sake, why implement something that is only HALF done?! Hold on until the whole thing is ready.

I understand, I really do. They have ideas, but don't implement half the idea with no explanation on why you did it and then let players rage cause you broke a part of the game until the other half is implemented.


I agree, i positively do not like the concept of braking something, until it is fixed and working. However as unhappy as i am it's is the way to do it, it has to be done like that. SE needs to make the core more stable, and best way is to take apart the broken layers and re-implement them when fixed.
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#18 Aug 30 2011 at 4:04 PM Rating: Good
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I just don't like how number heavy MMO's are, I hope end game equipment does stuff like FFXI did but to a greater effect. I'd love to hunt for specific gear that'll cut an important abilities recast timer, or increase the effects of abilities outside my main class.
#19 Aug 30 2011 at 5:42 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
I worry slightly that this is happening in 2 patches. Really, I'm just worried when it comes to SE and Auto Assigning attributes to Rangers and Archers.

I mean it will only be for a patch but I can see my hp, vit, and mp being cut in half....

This is what concerns me also. I have a feeling everyone is going to be gimped big time between 1.19 and 1.20 which in SE's current situation is a very very bad thing.
#20 Aug 30 2011 at 10:08 PM Rating: Default
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
Thanks for the info... I was so going to rate you up until...


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Better luck next time.


I was going to care but I didn't. No one gives a **** about rate ups. This is what I get for having fun to do nice things.
#21 Aug 30 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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After almost a year of playing i finally started moving points for crafter classes ranks now this. I wonder will crafter gear become all important? Rank 20 behest is throwing rank 44 mobs at my lame Rank 28 archer, he could use some of that acc.Smiley: laugh
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#22 Aug 30 2011 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
CupDeNoodles wrote:
They implement a new system where the physical level is gone and remove the ability to rearrange stats only to implement it at a yet unknown time.

For @#%^s sake, why implement something that is only HALF done?! Hold on until the whole thing is ready.


Because they need testing; and because there are too many changes to "hold on" until the whole game is fixed. You're not paying. They're not saying the game is ready. The vast majority of the population voted in favour of "drastic alterations" to the game.

It's like complaining about the bumpiness of a road during the months that a construction crew is fixing it. Sometimes you can't just dump smooth pavement on top and expect it to be finished. As with road construction, so with FFXIV: groundwork must be done and, quite often, it's going to be a messy process.


I never said to hold everything off until the whole game was fixed. Just the part concerning the stats. It seems they already have plans to let us rearrange stats in 1.20 and I just don't want to be stuck with preset stats until 1.20 rolls around.

Shredmastah wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
I worry slightly that this is happening in 2 patches. Really, I'm just worried when it comes to SE and Auto Assigning attributes to Rangers and Archers.

I mean it will only be for a patch but I can see my hp, vit, and mp being cut in half....

This is what concerns me also. I have a feeling everyone is going to be gimped big time between 1.19 and 1.20 which in SE's current situation is a very very bad thing.


This is also what I was trying to point to. Why should I have to run around with preset stats when they can just wait to implement it entirely once 1.20 rolls around? This wouldn't even be an issue if they would allow us to rearrange stats along with everything else they are planning in 1.19.

How can one not see the issues that will arise from this?
#23 Aug 31 2011 at 1:33 AM Rating: Good
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If they remove stats then EVERYONE starts from the same base when they re-introduce stat allocation so it could avoid alot of faffing and you simply have X amount of points to invest where you want depending on your level.
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#24 Aug 31 2011 at 1:48 AM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
CupDeNoodles wrote:
They implement a new system where the physical level is gone and remove the ability to rearrange stats only to implement it at a yet unknown time.

For @#%^s sake, why implement something that is only HALF done?! Hold on until the whole thing is ready.


Because they need testing; and because there are too many changes to "hold on" until the whole game is fixed. You're not paying. They're not saying the game is ready. The vast majority of the population voted in favour of "drastic alterations" to the game.

It's like complaining about the bumpiness of a road during the months that a construction crew is fixing it. Sometimes you can't just dump smooth pavement on top and expect it to be finished. As with road construction, so with FFXIV: groundwork must be done and, quite often, it's going to be a messy process.


Guess what?

There are things called *TEST SERVERS* that most competent game companies use to work on half-completed systems before releasing them to the public. However, considering this is SE (and you're defending them) I'm not surprised that you haven't heard of such things.

There's a dramatic difference between pushing out the first stages of a completely new mechanic (materia) and completely destroying/butchering core class mechanics by splitting something across two patches. There's absolutely zero reason to do so.
#25 Aug 31 2011 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
Ok, let me clear some stuff up for you. They are implementing a system that automatically allocates stats based on level. They are doing this because when they implement the system that allows you to do it yourself (individually for each class), it will be VOLUNTARY. That means that the system they are putting in, in 1.19, is STILL going to be there in 1.20.

The new system will allow players to tweak their stats, but for those who either A) have no idea wtf they are doing, or B) don't care. The automated system will be there still to handle it.

In other words, they already know that the GUI for point allocation works, it just needs a face lift for 1.20. What they don't know is how the stat alterations coming in 1.19 will effect people with say 200 in one stat. So they implement the automated system early, get the opportnity to see if it is good, or if it will break the game, an in the mean time, we don't have someone running around one-shotting NMs due to some game-breaking bug. lol

This is how I see it at least.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 7:45am by StateAlchemist

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 7:45am by StateAlchemist

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 7:46am by StateAlchemist
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#26 Aug 31 2011 at 6:37 AM Rating: Decent
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Likibiki wrote:
I think it's a good idea. It means people always need to keep on top of their gear to be most effective.

(And let's face it, the current system is bloody awful.)

Agreed, to me they over thinked (typical SE) the stats. Should of left it but they wanted to give too much customisation to crap no one wants. And allowing people to switch jobs left right and centre certainly feels like they screwed up the point system. Switching from one job to another but limiting the stat assigning/releasing seemed like a bad idea.
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#27 Aug 31 2011 at 7:36 AM Rating: Default
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Inboundwar wrote:
Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
Thanks for the info... I was so going to rate you up until...


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I WIN HA I POSTED BEFORE ANYONE



Better luck next time.


I was going to care but I didn't. No one gives a sh*t about rate ups. This is what I get for having fun to do nice things.


1) You obviously care, or you wouldn't have rushed to post it at 6:30 am before anyone else (to get the obligatory rate-up)

2) Do you care about rate-downs? cuz you got em :D
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#28 Aug 31 2011 at 8:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Everyone is doom and glooming the temp removal of stats, but aside from VIT and MND, hardly anyone beefs up anything else anyways. This just means that stats will actually start to matter next update, and maybe you won't have to worry so much about having a huge HP/MP pool to survive, that STR +100 will mean you're going to kick the mob's **** faster than in 1.18.

We just won't know until the time comes. I realize this is SE we're talking about, but i'd wager they won't completely bone every class for two to three months after 1.19 hits, since almost every move they've made recently is in favor of the games' survival.
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#29 Aug 31 2011 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Viertel wrote:
Guess what?

There are things called *TEST SERVERS* that most competent game companies use to work on half-completed systems before releasing them to the public. However, considering this is SE (and you're defending them) I'm not surprised that you haven't heard of such things.

There's a dramatic difference between pushing out the first stages of a completely new mechanic (materia) and completely destroying/butchering core class mechanics by splitting something across two patches. There's absolutely zero reason to do so.

Could not agree more. I'm still waiting for a response to a question I posed in another thread...

Why did FFXI, a game that is nearly a decade old, just get a test server and XIV is still without one? If anything, XI is doing better than it was at the release of XIV. They seem to have a team of developers who actually know what they're doing and have been steadily bring players back to the game instead of turning them away in droves like XIV. I'm completely baffled by the lack of test servers here.

I think the changes coming in several stages is a result of outsourcing your code. When you pay an elementary school kid to write your college thesis for you, it just stands to reason that you'll have to proofread and revise it several times before it's worthy of submitting.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 11:20am by FilthMcNasty
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#30 Aug 31 2011 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Why did FFXI, a game that is nearly a decade old, just get a test server and XIV is still without one?


Easy to answer. We told SE that the game (FFXIV) is not acceptable as it is now. The best way to fix that, is to bring the whole community, not just some exclusive people, at the desk and have everyone open their mind. What you would say if someone "exclusive" told SE to change nothing?

PLUS

It is still without any monthly fee

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 5:56pm by Pyrorebirth

Edited, Sep 1st 2011 10:54am by Pyrorebirth
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#31 Aug 31 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
Louiscool wrote:
1) You obviously care, or you wouldn't have rushed to post it at 6:30 am before anyone else (to get the obligatory rate-up)

2) Do you care about rate-downs? cuz you got em :D


@Louiscool: Yeah, I usually rate up the person that posts information from lodestone as well, but when I saw the asinine comment the OP wrote at the bottom, I clicked the down arrow instead.

@OP: It's not a contest, and even if you posted it before someone doesn't make you any better then the other people on this forum. Going out of your way to try and "stick it" to the community is not a great way to make friends.

Edit: Defaulted...doesn't say many good things if people disagree. Trying to promote civility is not popular amongst the forum I suppose. A shame.

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 1:36pm by StateAlchemist
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#32 Aug 31 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Default
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Pyrorebirth wrote:
Quote:
Why did FFXI, a game that is nearly a decade old, just get a test server and XIV is still without one?


Easy to answer. We told SE that the game is not acceptable as it is now.

Not acceptable to who? The majority of players who didn't like XI pre-abyssea are enjoying it again. The game is more accessible than it has ever been for old and new players alike. The XI development team is putting up better ideas than the XIV team could come up with, even after 6 years of work and almost a decade of experience. XI is still flawed just as any game is, but it is moving in the right direction. That doesn't need a fix. Given how well they have done lately, this is a group I would trust to make additions and adjustments on their own. Doinitrite imo

Now look over the tentative notes for the next few patches for XIV. You'll see several game elements or mechanics that are set to have adjustments made in 1.19, then evaluated and adjusted in 1.20 then possibly again re-evaluated in subsequent patches. Doinitwrong imo

The whole point of a test server(aside from finding bugs) is to make additions or adjustments and tune up gameplay so that they're ready to go live. You upload prospective changes to the test server, evaluate them and make the necessary adjustments and then upload to live servers ONCE. Not only would it solve the problem of people speculating and spreading QQ all over the forums, but it would save a metric **** ton of time.



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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#33 Aug 31 2011 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
The development team probably just doesn't have the manpower (considering the amount of work they have piled on their desks) to make worthwhile use of a test server.

FFXIV is currently free. So for now, every server with players on it are test servers. Welcome to reality.

I can't blame them either. Why spend more money on a game not currently making money to test changes, when there are more people playing, then SE could hire to do the same thing for them.

FFXI however, currently making money. Not using a test server before making changes to FFXI could hurt thier profit, if they ***** something up. Therefore a test server is not only warranted, but necessary for any further changes that would be big enough to drive off subscribers, if it broke the game.

EDIT: Sorry, should add in one more tidbit. Even though FFXI is old, a lot of players that were going to migrate to FFXIV went back to FFXI because of the state of the game, doing whatever SE can to keep subscribers within SE's MMOs seems important enough, rather then losing players to another company (and maybe not gettign them back).

Edited, Aug 31st 2011 1:33pm by StateAlchemist
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#34 Aug 31 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
The development team probably just doesn't have the manpower (considering the amount of work they have piled on their desks) to make worthwhile use of a test server.


False.

You're either a competent company that uses them (and has a QA department), or you aren't.

There is no middle ground here. Using the F2P excuse is just that, an excuse.



Edited, Aug 31st 2011 1:48pm by Viertel
#35 Aug 31 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
Well they must have some reason, whatever it is they are more qualified to answer then me. I'm just speculating based off of how it looks to me. Thousands of people are bound to find bugs faster then a few people on a test server.
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#36 Aug 31 2011 at 12:30 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist wrote:
The development team probably just doesn't have the manpower (considering the amount of work they have piled on their desks) to make worthwhile use of a test server.

Analogy time! When you write a paper you brainstorm(develop), make an outline(roadmap in this case), bang out a rough draft and proof read it(test server function) and then make your final draft(live server function).

It is a more efficient use of time and resources to gather feedback and make adjustments on a test server than it is to go live. Not only that but the players at least get some consistency from patch to patch. I honestly couldn't tell you where this game is headed because I expect everything to be changed at least once over the course of the next few patches.

StateAlchemist wrote:
FFXIV is currently free. So for now, every server with players on it are test servers. Welcome to reality.

The reality is that less than 10% of the people who purchased this game are actually active, yet you still see some servers at 'full' capacity. I'm certain they could get a server up to do testing even if they had to restrict access to only a certain number of players at a time.

StateAlchemist wrote:
FFXI however, currently making money. Not using a test server before making changes to FFXI could hurt thier profit, if they ***** something up.

The faster they get XIV up and running in a payable/playable state, the better off they will be. It's not about profits, it's about cutting losses at this point. The players who do still play XIV do so on faith alone that it will be elevated to something worthwhile. XI on the other hand has been improving at a more rapid pace than XIV despite most of SE's focus being on it.

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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#37 Aug 31 2011 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
I'm certain they could get a server up to do testing even if they had to restrict access to only a certain number of players at a time.


Probably, true. As far as the paper thing goes, I usually just wrote mine flat out and got A's, but that's just me. Not that your analogy isn't accurate, because it is. I just have the feeling that SE doesn't believe the server populations are going to change (for the worse at least) regardless of whether they use all the servers as guinea pigs versus opening up a server specifically for testing purposes.

And to be completely honest, I would rather "test" the changes made to the game on my current server, using my current character, that way I wouldn't be spending time doing things again on a test server. A lot of very specific events that may be very rare in occurrence can take place across all the servers open right now, rather then in a limited environment. It's for that same reason, that when scientists do an experiment, they try to have as large of a test group as possible, so that they can get the most information as they possibly can. If they could test something with 100000 or 10000 people, which do you think they would choose?

Anyway, you have a good point, I just hope you see that I do too. What SE does in the end is of course up to them.
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#38 Aug 31 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
I would rather "test" the changes made to the game on my current server, using my current character, that way I wouldn't be spending time doing things again on a test server.

There is no reason you couldn't import your current character to the test server. I haven't tried the test server for XI, but this is the usual practice for how it works in WoW. There really isn't any time spent 'doing things again' as anything you would need relevant to testing is already provided.

I'm not sure the server pops change for the worse either without a complete collapse, but having a test server could definitely help them crank out these changes more accurately and in a shorter amount of time.

Consider what would have happened if they had decided to reopen the beta server after the launch disaster. In essence you have a server that doesn't really count toward anything so there isn't any drawback to allowing players who haven't purchased retail to access it. They could possibly maintain interest and gather some data and feedback at the same time. I don't see any downside to it.


____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#39 Aug 31 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
FilthMcNasty wrote:
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
I would rather "test" the changes made to the game on my current server, using my current character, that way I wouldn't be spending time doing things again on a test server.

There is no reason you couldn't import your current character to the test server. I haven't tried the test server for XI, but this is the usual practice for how it works in WoW. There really isn't any time spent 'doing things again' as anything you would need relevant to testing is already provided.

I'm not sure the server pops change for the worse either without a complete collapse, but having a test server could definitely help them crank out these changes more accurately and in a shorter amount of time.

Consider what would have happened if they had decided to reopen the beta server after the launch disaster. In essence you have a server that doesn't really count toward anything so there isn't any drawback to allowing players who haven't purchased retail to access it. They could possibly maintain interest and gather some data and feedback at the same time. I don't see any downside to it.



Didn't think about it too much, but there could very well be people that would play on the test server, even if they thought the current game was horrible. I don't know. Post it on the official forums! And then poke SE until they do it.
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#40 Aug 31 2011 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
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I am worried about them re-implementing voluntary stat distribution later on... I don't want voluntary stat distribution, unless it's more along the lines of merits, where I'm only adjusting a small percentage of bonus points.
#41 Aug 31 2011 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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RamseySylph wrote:
I am worried about them re-implementing voluntary stat distribution later on... I don't want voluntary stat distribution, unless it's more along the lines of merits, where I'm only adjusting a small percentage of bonus points.


I honestly couldn't hit the red arrow fast enough. Why the blazes would you want less customization?
#42 Aug 31 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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3,962 posts
CupDeNoodles wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
I am worried about them re-implementing voluntary stat distribution later on... I don't want voluntary stat distribution, unless it's more along the lines of merits, where I'm only adjusting a small percentage of bonus points.


I honestly couldn't hit the red arrow fast enough. Why the blazes would you want less customization?


It's not customization, it's simply the ability for people to make mistakes with the way they build their stats. The way the game is moving, towards distinctly different jobs, there's no reason to have to keep track of your stat builds on every job.

Being able to decide a fraction of your points I support perhaps, choose if you want a little more survivability, or a little more power.
#43 Aug 31 2011 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
RamseySylph wrote:
CupDeNoodles wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
I am worried about them re-implementing voluntary stat distribution later on... I don't want voluntary stat distribution, unless it's more along the lines of merits, where I'm only adjusting a small percentage of bonus points.


I honestly couldn't hit the red arrow fast enough. Why the blazes would you want less customization?


It's not customization, it's simply the ability for people to make mistakes with the way they build their stats. The way the game is moving, towards distinctly different jobs, there's no reason to have to keep track of your stat builds on every job.

Being able to decide a fraction of your points I support perhaps, choose if you want a little more survivability, or a little more power.

I agree. With unlimited customization, comes the chance of huge imbalance issues. One job may end up doing something completely off the wall that SE never EVER intended for it to do, and because of that could cause one class to become all but obsolete. Allowing for restricted customization, gives the player a feeling of uniqueness, but keep control of the classes better by still limiting their effectiveness outside the boundries of what it should be able to do.

Being able to make yourself a little more beefy, or sacrifice some sustain for extra damage really is great so a player can choose whether or not to play a little more reckless or a little more careful. To put it better...make them more effective in a party where they may not take damage, but make them have more sustain when soloing and getting hit continuously.

Personally it doesn't matter all that much to me as long as they don't ***** up crafting. So hopefully the general community won't be disappointed.
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#44 Sep 01 2011 at 12:42 AM Rating: Good
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CupDeNoodles wrote:
I honestly couldn't hit the red arrow fast enough. Why the blazes would you want less customization?

There's only customization until some guy figures out the best build/best stats and writes a FAQ. Then it's either you follow the train, or you're left in the dust.

I'm with Rams in that I would rather not have the option, if it ends up being a non-option.


---

Short history lesson: WoW used to allow stat distribution per level, a-la Diablo. They canned it way before release, because people were making horrible builds, or over-powered ones. By forcing class-specific stats, they have narrowed the gap between casual and hardcore -- if that's a good thing or not, that's pretty much up to every individual to judge, but 11 million people seem to prefer it that way.
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#45BlackstarrStrife, Posted: Sep 01 2011 at 1:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) 11 million abusive kids prefer it that way.
#46 Sep 01 2011 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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BlackstarrStrife wrote:
11 million abusive kids prefer it that way.

So if we generalize that all people who play WoW are 'abusive kids', what would you generalize about people who are still holding out for XIV to get better?
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Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#47 Sep 01 2011 at 4:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
So if we generalize that all people who play WoW are 'abusive kids', what would you generalize about people who are still holding out for XIV to get better?


Junkies ;)
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Ealdwulf wrote:
So one of the big downsides of playing PUP, and why almost everyone hates them, is that they all display the wounds of Christ?
Sephrick wrote:
I'd imagine it as descretely reaching around said person, not screaming kamehameha as I use the pld as a trampoline.
dmhlucky wrote:
the curse of good DD's is they tend to have less Defense, meaning they get high for more.
Master ketrel wrote:
Its just an emote you sick son of a *****
#48 Sep 01 2011 at 4:52 AM Rating: Good
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4,144 posts
GailC wrote:
Quote:
So if we generalize that all people who play WoW are 'abusive kids', what would you generalize about people who are still holding out for XIV to get better?


Junkies ;)

Even junkies don't do bad stuff...
____________________________
Rinsui wrote:
Only hips + boobs all day and hips + boobs all over my icecream

HaibaneRenmei wrote:
30 bucks is almost free

cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#49 Sep 01 2011 at 5:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
11 million abusive kids prefer it that way.

There i fixed it for you


And not to mention the FFXI-gamers too (before spending merits)...are they abusive kids too?
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#50 Sep 01 2011 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
CupDeNoodles wrote:
I honestly couldn't hit the red arrow fast enough. Why the blazes would you want less customization?
Short history lesson: WoW used to allow stat distribution per level, a-la Diablo. They canned it way before release, because people were making horrible builds, or over-powered ones. By forcing class-specific stats, they have narrowed the gap between casual and hardcore -- if that's a good thing or not, that's pretty much up to every individual to judge, but 11 million people seem to prefer it that way.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! You shouldn't have done that!

Pardo's Law: When, during the course of a conversation in a Final Fantasy XI or XIV forum, the letters "WoW" are mentioned, all conversation will inevitably be diverted into a black hole, though it is possible, return to the topic at hand may in fact be an impossibility.
#51 Sep 01 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
It is inevitable Ramsey... :(
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