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How many of you actually registered for SE's forums?Follow

#1 Sep 06 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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I ask because I was one of the first as soon as it launched, I don't post much but I read it everyday.

From the member profile numbers:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/members/21649 is the last person...

21,649 people registered? :(

Makes me sad, I hope this is just a small percentage of players actually active in the game itself.

On second thought though, I'm sure not many people who play even come here? ^^; Some just stay away from trolls altogether :d

Edited, Sep 6th 2011 7:26pm by Elionara
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#2 Sep 06 2011 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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I don't think I'm registered on the Lodestone forums.
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#3 Sep 06 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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and 12k of those are gift horse
#4 Sep 06 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I was number 558.
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#5 Sep 06 2011 at 11:00 PM Rating: Decent
3470 here, but i wasnt in too much of a rush.
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#6 Sep 06 2011 at 11:06 PM Rating: Decent
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I just registered for them yesterday, but pretty much only to stick a recruitment post in the server forums. I don't really read the rest of the forums there anyway.
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#7 Sep 06 2011 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure if some current players are even well aware a forum even exists. It's not advertised that well.
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#8 Sep 06 2011 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Generally speaking, only about 5-10% of a game's population tops actually registers/posts on any given forum, unless it's a crazy niche/hardcore game. It doesn't surprise me terribly.

Honestly, the game needs a better launcher, with links to the forum and such. This is one case where I wouldn't mind them taking a page out of Blizzard's book, their game launchers are nice.
#9 Sep 07 2011 at 12:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Docent42 wrote:
I don't think I'm registered on the Lodestone forums.

Do you even have to? I don't remember if I had to register for anything. It uses the same login data as the game.

UltKnightGrover wrote:
I'm not sure if some current players are even well aware a forum even exists. It's not advertised that well.

Well, it's on the official FFXIV homepage. I'd say it's common knowledge to check out the official homepage of a game if you want informations, and there you find the link to the official forums.

I like Ramseys idea of showing more informations/links about the game in the launcher window though.
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#10 Sep 07 2011 at 1:37 AM Rating: Good
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Generally speaking, only about 5-10% of a game's population tops actually registers/posts on any given forum, unless it's a crazy niche/hardcore game. It doesn't surprise me terribly.

....right. Because almost noone in a MMO is interested in what Devs announce in those forums. Question: Where did your *** get the 5-10% number from? 1989?
#11 Sep 07 2011 at 1:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Generally speaking, only about 5-10% of a game's population tops actually registers/posts on any given forum, unless it's a crazy niche/hardcore game. It doesn't surprise me terribly.

....right. Because almost noone in a MMO is interested in what Devs announce in those forums. Question: Where did your *** get the 5-10% number from? 1989?


Right. Because you need to register and post on a forum to read patch notes sand development notes.

Not everyone is like us, passionate about this game, and apparently sarcastic (me too) - passionate about the game enough to sign into a forum and post about it. For a lot of players, it's enough to just play the game, hear about updates or patches down the road from their friends, read the website, or even read the dev tracker on a forum.

Only a small number of people are actually going to log into a forum and post on it. Even a smaller number are only going to actually become regular posters. And those posters are the vocal minority of game's audience. They're very important, they tie the community together to some degree, but they are not the majority.

It's foolish and naive to think so, and I don't know why you have that idea.


Edited, Sep 7th 2011 12:47am by RamseySylph
#12 Sep 07 2011 at 1:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Looks like I have to backpaddle a little - you actually don't have to register to view the forums.

Still, I think it's foolish and naive to even hint at the possibility that the actual number of players is 100/5 = 20 times higher than the number of registered forum accounts. If anything, the number of registered forum accounts tells us who is interested enough in this game to care for its future to retain at least the option to voice his/her opinion. Registering doesn't automatically require you to post, mind you.

Also, the forum account numbers still vastly overestimate the number of current players, since you have to register only once - and never even play the game a single time after that - to add to the number.

Edited, Sep 7th 2011 4:08am by Rinsui
#13 Sep 07 2011 at 2:39 AM Rating: Decent
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I fail to understand the huge obsession with My Little Pony on that forum;
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#14 Sep 07 2011 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
I fail to understand the huge obsession with My Little Pony on that forum;

This should explain it: Know your meme
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#15 Sep 07 2011 at 10:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Im registered but just like Elionara's last sentence says, I stay away. I do read the forums daily, I just don't post.
#16 Sep 07 2011 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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I used to go there, posted a few times, but haven't logged into FFXIV in a while so I can no longer use the forums. I know I can just log into FFXIV and get access again, but the forums were so heavily modded that I'd rather stick to ZAM for FFXIV info.
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#17 Sep 07 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Decent
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Omena wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
I fail to understand the huge obsession with My Little Pony on that forum;

This should explain it: Know your meme


Shudder.
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#18 Sep 07 2011 at 11:25 AM Rating: Good
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how do you tell what number you were?

Anyway I am registered but I a forum-goer generally
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#19 Sep 07 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Looks like I have to backpaddle a little - you actually don't have to register to view the forums.

Still, I think it's foolish and naive to even hint at the possibility that the actual number of players is 100/5 = 20 times higher than the number of registered forum accounts. If anything, the number of registered forum accounts tells us who is interested enough in this game to care for its future to retain at least the option to voice his/her opinion. Registering doesn't automatically require you to post, mind you.

Also, the forum account numbers still vastly overestimate the number of current players, since you have to register only once - and never even play the game a single time after that - to add to the number.

Edited, Sep 7th 2011 4:08am by Rinsui


I said 5-10% on average. It really depends on the game Rinsui, with FFXIV having had such a rocky start, it's possible that number is marginally higher. With all the bad press, and a lot of unfinished features and bugs early on, it's safe to say that more of the playerbase that stuck with the game and/or has come back to it, or come late to it, is hardcore, and actively seeking out information regarding the future of the game.

It's not that much more than you think though, maybe somewhere between 10 and 20%, meaning the playerbase is 100-200,000 people across all servers. Even among the hardcore audience actively seeking out information, the amount of people that are compelled to register for a forum and post on it, is still going to be the vocal minority.
#20 Sep 07 2011 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Truth ^

My LS, which has 20-25 active (hardcore? they are on daily) members, only has maybe 5-7 who are on the forums. On my server alone I've seen only a few people who post actively, and they are people that I run by quite frequently in game.

Other than that, I could say that FFXIV is probably the only game I've actually registered for the official forums in. I never did for WoW, RIFT, FFXI, DCUO, or any free to play games. Mainly like the above guy said, I just want information about what's going on and dev comments.


P.S. the official forums just make me angry, so much b*tch*ng and whining in every post it's pretty bad. "I want this because I'm blah" "why dont you fix blargh" "we need rawr"... no crap kiddies, their is about a million and one things they can / should do to the game, they can't do it all at once.
#21 Sep 07 2011 at 11:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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I registered and set up my character and all, but I rarely go there. That's mostly because I think the forum format sucks. It's hard to find what I'm interested in and I just don't feel it's as elegant as Zam.

#22 Sep 07 2011 at 12:56 PM Rating: Good
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It says I can't login because I haven't been on in less than 30 days... I was one of the first to login and set it up the minute it was possible. I'm probably in the top 100 at least. Name is xeno on there
#23 Sep 07 2011 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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Is it really such a surprise? I can't imagine there's more than a thousand or two active players on any given server these days. I recognize about 80% of people's names I come across.
#24 Sep 07 2011 at 4:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd just like to echo I don't go there because it's not user friendly.

Plus I make it point to not post or even frequent the cesspool that is the 'official forum.' That goes for any game.

Seriously, official forums are the worst.
#25 Sep 07 2011 at 6:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't post over there, but I read it, especially the dev tracker.

I don't post, because I don't think my voice matters. I'm a bit of an old school and hardcore RPG player, although I am also in the minority of those, as I am an hermit and plays the game generally solo.

Since my opinion is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of Square's customer base, I don't want to influence them one way or another. Once the game actually slips away from my taste, I'll stop playing. If it becomes better and more to my liking, I'll play more.

In either case, they'll see the result of their changes in the telemetry data after the facts, and that's true for their entire playerbase.

(In other words, they may listen to their fans on the forums or not, but at the end of the day, if the changes they do and implement on the servers have a net positive impact on their userbase, I don't think Square-enix will have any particular care about the users they lost versus the new ones they got.)
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#26 Sep 08 2011 at 8:57 AM Rating: Good
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johnnypsama wrote:
P.S. the official forums just make me angry, so much b*tch*ng and whining in every post it's pretty bad. "I want this because I'm blah" "why dont you fix blargh" "we need rawr"... no crap kiddies, their is about a million and one things they can / should do to the game, they can't do it all at once.


Hehe, fortunately there is a lot less ******** going on here, right, with entire threads dedicated about what is wrong with the game, why people hate the game, why SE has disappointed FF players and petty arguments that even end up being about WoW and Rift.

And not only that, here we can also rate each other's post so that sage A's post can end up as excellent while some people's enemy's post expressing the exact same opinion can be sub-defaulted.

You won't find any kiddies here, right, Johnny?
#27 Sep 08 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm registered, but I rarely go because:

1. The forums are all about stuff people are demanding in game. That's okay, I get it--it's basically what MMO official forums are for. But I don't really care how many people wanna see some feature implemented in FFXIV cuz it was so great in FFXI.

2. You have to log in every time. I like Zam because cookies are persistent and I can just hit the site, see what's new that I haven't read yet, maybe post a reply if I feel like it without entering my whole email address and long password. I'm lazy like that.

3. The threads on the official forums get so long. If you wanna catch up, clear your day.

4. If there's important developments in game, someone posts them to Zam. I can get caught up a lot faster in game changes and the community response (which is important--I can read the official game announcements, but often you need to see responses from actual players to fully digest their impact) by coming here than spending hours on the official forums.

Official forums just tend to be a lot of QQ. I like the community at Zam a lot better. I'm guessing a lot of other players also prefer sites like Zam or FFXIVCore and haven't created Lodestone accounts or don't bother going there.
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#28 Sep 08 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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I'm willing to bet the actual number is smaller, probably much smaller. When lodestone accounts go inactive they don't re-use the id.
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#29 Sep 08 2011 at 5:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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yfaithfully wrote:
4. If there's important developments in game, someone posts them to Zam. I can get caught up a lot faster in game changes and the community response (which is important--I can read the official game announcements, but often you need to see responses from actual players to fully digest their impact) by coming here than spending hours on the official forums.


That's true. I tend to use Zam (and a few other sites) as a filter for the important stuff myself.
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#30 Sep 09 2011 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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I just tried to do it now, but when I was finished and tried to log in to the actual forums it said that since I haven't played in the last 30 days I am not allowed to log in to the forums.

I am getting more and more interested in the game again, but they sure aren't making it easy.
#31 Sep 09 2011 at 8:21 AM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
I just tried to do it now, but when I was finished and tried to log in to the actual forums it said that since I haven't played in the last 30 days I am not allowed to log in to the forums.


They are trying to lighten Mod's workload with that rule. You can still see everything posted without logging in though, so if someone just want to info-shopping they can.
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#32 Sep 09 2011 at 9:57 PM Rating: Good
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Belcrono wrote:
I just tried to do it now, but when I was finished and tried to log in to the actual forums it said that since I haven't played in the last 30 days I am not allowed to log in to the forums.

I am getting more and more interested in the game again, but they sure aren't making it easy.
I can't even get on the forums while logged into FFXIV.

RamseySylph wrote:
Generally speaking, only about 5-10% of a game's population tops actually registers/posts on any given forum
[citation needed]



Edited, Sep 9th 2011 11:03pm by bsphil
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#33 Sep 09 2011 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
Generally speaking, only about 5-10% of a game's population tops actually registers/posts on any given forum
[citation needed]


Why are you people in such shock and disbelief about this number? Is it really that surprising to you all, so world-view-shattering that not everyone else, like us, needs to talk about a game in an online forum?

Anyways, as for your citation...

Paying to Win? BATTLEFIELD HEROES, Virtual Goods and Selling Gameplay Advantages
Ben Cousins (Electronic Arts) Game Developer's Conference 2011


I'm not going to go and find a transcript for you and post the exact quote. For BF heroes it was something like 3-5% of their playerbase, but seeing as it's a F2P game, that's to be expected. He mentioned that studies have shown on average it's about 5-10% of a game's playerbase. As I said in my original quote, it can get higher or lower depending on the game. I am sure for FFXIV it is slightly higher than the average, but not that much higher. As for what exact studies he was referencing? I didn't note them, if he mentioned. But honestly, why people are so surprised by this number still remains incomprehensible to me.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 10:49pm by RamseySylph
#34 Sep 10 2011 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Why are you people in such shock and disbelief about this number?


Because it's a fake, made up, subjective number.

My personal believe is that the % should be a lot lower, ofcourse I don't have any proof myself either;
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#35 Sep 10 2011 at 1:23 AM Rating: Default
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RedGalka wrote:
Quote:
Why are you people in such shock and disbelief about this number?


Because it's a fake, made up, subjective number.

My personal believe is that the % should be a lot lower, ofcourse I don't have any proof myself either;


Do you really need me to go through the GDC vault and find the **** slide to be satisfied?

The study was across a large number of games. What makes you think you know better? I'm not implying that the because the study showed an average of 5-10%, FFXIV's exact numbers are 5-10%, but it's a safe ballpark. And this thread isn't about what the exact percentage is. Saying the number isn't exact, that's fine. But saying the number is fake and made up is frankly, insulting.

If a ballpark number isn't good enough for you, then you need to get a job as a community rep, collect the real data, and get back to us, okay?

Edited, Sep 10th 2011 12:29am by RamseySylph
#36 Sep 11 2011 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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RamseySylph wrote:
Anyways, as for your citation...

Paying to Win? BATTLEFIELD HEROES, Virtual Goods and Selling Gameplay Advantages
Ben Cousins (Electronic Arts) Game Developer's Conference 2011


I'm not going to go and find a transcript for you and post the exact quote.


"Look, man, I'm correct. It was said or written, as I remember. Somewhere. I don't know the exact numbers or words, and I'm not about to actually get them in order to help my argument. But I'm correct."

The whole point of citation is to actually cite something. You can't just say, "something in this link proves that I am correct; take my word for it." That just brings us back to square one... asking for proof. XD

And just because something's cited doesn't mean it's true, anyway. The date of the study matters, as well as the sample size and even the type of game (the players of different genres are more or less literate than players from other genres). One step at a time, though. We should start by having an actual citation.



Edited, Sep 12th 2011 1:02am by KaneKitty
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#37 Sep 12 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not looking for a citation, but just posting a link to this conference announcement of some kind of seminar or speaker just doesn't cut it as a reference of course. At least give us a document where those percentages are mentioned and explained.

I just don't like it when people can act all cinfident and just drop numbers in order to make a point. Many times all they do is destroy a discussion or influence people's decision...and then later you can find out that all they did was mentioning somebody's wild guess or simple observation.

We're talking about FFXIV, right? I asked 14 people from two linkshells if they were registered for the official forum. Eight people were, so should I claim that this percentage exceeds 50% for every game or can we come up with explanations of why this percentage is indeed a lot higher than Mr. Cousins' findings? Cause I could already argue that at this moment many of the FFXIV players are still the ones that stuck with the game (not going to use the expression "more hardcore" here) and I think that players like that are more eager to register themselves because they want to be informed as thorough as possible.

For now, the 5-10% based on different games is not any better than my 50+% or my actual guess of around 25% unless I see some compelling evidence.

Edited, Sep 12th 2011 6:00am by MrMissile
#38 Sep 12 2011 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:


The whole point of citation is to actually cite something. You can't just say, "something in this link proves that I am correct; take my word for it." That just brings us back to square one... asking for proof.


Edited, Sep 12th 2011 1:02am by KaneKitty


Unless you were at GDC last year, or otherwise have GDC vault access, me posting the link to the video won't do you any good. But okay, fine, I dug around the vault to find the video, and I will transcribe for you the relevant section.

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014708/Paying-to-Win-BATTLEFIELD-HEROES
Time: 31:20 onward

BenCousins wrote:
So we decided to look at our forums, do some data mining on the forums,
and looking at the engagement level of the forums across the userbase.
So this pie chart shows the entire userbase divided by different types of forum usage.
Seventy-eight percent of our users never touch the forums,
they never even click the link to get to get access to the top level of the forums.
A huge portion of the users just not using that feature of the game.
Twenty percent of our users visit the forums to read, at least once, but they never post.
These are people who browse forums, but don't participate in any discussions.
And that green slab, two percent, is the number of people who actually post on the forums,
as a proportion of the entire userbase.


Whether you choose to believe that transcription or not, I don't really care. But that's as close as you're going to get to it. This apparently was not, I admit, the information I thought it was, as he only ends up talking about BF:Heroes, during this discussion, and doesn't mention any general statistics.

Now I will have to try and remember where I saw that information.

In the meantime, just looking at these statistics gives you an idea. They had an active forum userbase of 2% in a F2P online game. I openly stated that the 5-10% statistic would absolutely fluctuate based on the title. F2P games would have a smaller %, for various reasons, the lower barrier to entry being the obvious one.

Games like Final Fantasy XIV, which have gone through a media blender, suffered a critical and financially failed launch, etc. and now retain only the most hardcore userbase, are likely to have a larger % of forum posters.

The number is still not going to be anywhere close to 50%. About 3% of the shipped userbase is on the forum. Obviously, since shipping, it's very likely the audience has diminished significantly. What number of those copies never sold, or are no longer active is up in the air.

  • MrMissile, your suggestion of a 25% forum adoption means that the current active userbase is 86,000 players.
  • The average that I mentioned, of about 10% means there would be an active userbase of 215,000 players.


I would say that 25% of a playerbase seems high, but not extraordinarily out of the question, given the unfortunate circumstances around the game's launch.

However, I did mention that the game's forum adoption is probably between 10-20% because of this. And I stand by it. Leaving the average active userbase (players who have logged in at least once in the past month or so) somewhere between 100 and 200,000 players across all regions.

Please remember that active userbase just means someone who has logged in essentially within the last 30 days, it does not mean players that login and are playing regularly. 50% or more of the average server population at any given time probably represents a portion of the playerbase that plays far more actively than others, or never logs out. (Please do not argue this statistic, I'm not claiming to have any facts on this, nor that it is the correct number, it's simply a statement used to call clarity to the idea of what active playerbase even means.)

Do I have any proof on the forum adoption other than sound reasoning? No, and I admit that the number could be higher or lower, but it seems very unlikely. One thing I can say for certain, is, ideally, it would be great for FFXIV to have an active forum adoption of 5-10%, because if 25% of the userbase feels so inclined to join the forums to have their opinions heard, that means the game is in a state where the customer is generally dissatisfied.

So whatever the statistic is now, I hope that in a year or two, after the PS3 launch, etc. we can look forward to an adoption rate of less than 10%. In the mean time, I would still wager on the number falling somewhere between 10 and 20.

TL;DR
Don't hope for the forum adoption rate to rise significantly, that's the wrong thing to hope for. Ideally, the number of players ought to rise, without the number of registered forum users going up too much, thus driving the adoption rate down. As a thermometer, a more active number of forum users generally means there's more to complain about.

Edited, Sep 12th 2011 8:46am by RamseySylph
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