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Guildleve Revisions (09/09/2011)Follow

#1 Sep 09 2011 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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Good morning.

[dev1134] Guildleve Revisions

* The following revisions, planned for patch 1.19, are still in development, and therefore subject to change.
Patch 1.19 will see further revisions to the guildleve system.

These revisions are intended to create a more flexible play style for levequests as well as streamline the overall system. To accomplish this goal, the ability to accrue and store guildleves will be introduced, certain aspects of regional and local leves will be standardized, and the guildleve system will receive an overall UI adjustment.

Guildleve Issuance

Guildleve issuance will be revised as follows:

Players will receive an allowance of four leves every 12 hours (Earth time), up to maximum of 99.
The allowance will be shared amongst regional, local, and faction leves.
The Adventurers’ Guild will update its list of leves when you complete (or fail) a levequest, or when an additional allowance is issued.

The ability to exchange leves and the associated bonuses will be abolished. However, alternate bonuses will be introduced by way of a new evaluation system.

* Players who have reached the allowance cap may choose to return leves.
Levequest History and Evaluation

Upon completing a levequest and collecting the rewards, the leve will be moved from the player’s Journal to Levequest History, which displays the details of the eight most recently completed leves. Requesting an evaluation at the Adventurers’ Guild with at least one levequest in the history will earn you a new leve, the nature of which varies based on your levequest history. At this point in time your history will be cleared.

* Leves issued via the evaluation count towards the player’s allowance.

In patch 1.19, the combination of levequests in the history will determine the bonuses granted upon completing a levequest issued via evaluation. However, the evaluation system will be expanded in the future.
Retrying Levequests

Players will be given the option to retry a failed levequest at the cost of a leve allowance.
Regional and Faction Levequests
The retry option will be available in the Journal entry, at the Adventurers’ Guild, and the aetheryte menu.
Local Levequests
The retry option will be available in the Journal entry, at the Adventurers’ Guild, and in the option menu displayed upon failure.

Abandoning Levequests
The option to abandon levequests will be added to the Journal entry. Players may choose to abandon leves regardless of success and failure.


Edited, Sep 9th 2011 5:02am by Inboundwar
#2 Sep 09 2011 at 3:08 AM Rating: Decent
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One can only hope this means there will be more diversity amongst leve choices, otherwise we're now going to be forced to do leves every 12 hours to avoid negating them should we want to choose the same type (i.e. Mining leve that's mining HQ items); however, this also means we'll have a lot more freedom when it comes to variations...being able to actually do a wider variety in one sitting IF, and only IF the ticket system they spoke of comes through at the same time. The only part i'm not ok with this sharing local with regional leves.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 2:14am by Dallie
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#3 Sep 09 2011 at 3:20 AM Rating: Decent
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It said leves are updating already when you complete one.

Seems like a very nice system to me.
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#4 Sep 09 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It said leves are updating already when you complete one.


Yes, they are updating, and clearing out completed/same leves. The problem is being able to build up a chunk of leves pertaining to one class...especially concerning local leves. As is well known, they're pretty limited once you reach higher ranks. Without the ability to stack multiples of the same leve, or creating a wider variety, we're still on the same 2-3 per cycle that benefit SP-wise.

As I said on the official forums, and unless i'm missing something, I think the intention is to entice players to diversify more.
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#5 Sep 09 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Players will receive an allowance of four leves every 12 hours


8 leves every 24 hours with the ability to move around easier? Yes please.

This patch can't come fast enough.
#6 Sep 09 2011 at 6:11 AM Rating: Good
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This is a very good thing... the only people this doesn't benefit are the ones that managed to do their 8 regionals and 8 locals every 36 hours. I always find myself doing a lot of either one or the other.

There are a few implementation issues which they may or may not nail. For instance, making all possible leves for my current crafting rank available at once... that would be nice. Same thing with regionals: let me get all 6 Broken Water Leves and all 6 Halatali Leves from the counter before I leave town. If they get that right then this will be a huge boon.
#7 Sep 09 2011 at 6:49 AM Rating: Default
This is bs.

12 Leves every 36 hours now instead of 16.

Thanks SE. (not)

The only good thing I see coming out of this is the ability to do the same leve over and over (assuming your willing to make the trip back and forth a million times). Unless I was misreading it.

I guess I will have to wait and see how the evaluation system works to really say whether or not I am for or against it... but still... >< 4 less leves in 36 hour period. I really think that's gonna hurt more then the other stuff helps.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 9:14am by StateAlchemist
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#8 Sep 09 2011 at 6:52 AM Rating: Decent
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This is great. I wanted to level a crafting class and now I can collect leves during the week and do the all on the weekend. I can get to 50 fast and more importantly FREE. Not only free but without selling a thing I will make gil with all the leve bonuses. My only expense should be repairs. This is great...
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#9 Sep 09 2011 at 7:13 AM Rating: Good
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
This is bs.

12 Leves every 36 hours now instead of 16.

Thanks SE. (not)
I'll take the flexibility of being able to store them up over quantity.
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#10 Sep 09 2011 at 7:15 AM Rating: Default
Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
This is bs.

12 Leves every 36 hours now instead of 16.

Thanks SE. (not)
I'll take the flexibility of being able to store them up over quantity.

Yeah I know some people will really like that, but it really sucks for those of us that are actually -waiting- on resets because we max out our leves 2 hours after reset.
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#11 Sep 09 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
This is bs.

12 Leves every 36 hours now instead of 16.

Thanks SE. (not)


I get what you mean State. It is less Leves overall.

Cons:

Let's do the math. 7 x 8 = 54 Leves per week instead of 16+16+16+16+12 = 76 Leves per week. (That's four 36 hour periods and 2/3 of one more.)

So 22 less leves per week, if you were the type to do all 8 Local Leves. I, for one, only ever did a max of 3-4 Local leves per reset, as usually only 1-3 that are available are in my range for the crafts I am working on.

Pros:

For one, if you only log in on the weekend you will have 54 leves you can split between Sat. and Sun. This will be great for many casual players.

You can now select leves for a specific camp and then not go there. Select more for that camp after the Leve list shuffles and build up 10+ Leves before you actually head there.

I now see the possibility of everyone in the party having the same leve to Link. Save up your Halatali/Broken Water and setup an LS Leve party on on Saturday. The link bonuses are not the same as they used to be (3 link max bonus is gone) so everyone can simply Link.

For those who do not craft, there are now 8 Battlecraft Leves available per day.

For those who mostly craft there are now 8 Local Leves available per day.

In summary, there are now less Leves overall available, but the flexibility for different playstyles has increased significantly. Next time you go on a vacation and miss a few days of FFXIV you will come back to Anima and a Leve bonanza!



Edited, Sep 9th 2011 9:40am by SmashingtonWho
#12 Sep 09 2011 at 7:43 AM Rating: Excellent
I think local leves should have their own pool, and also should just be 'local' and be done without traveling.
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#13 Sep 09 2011 at 7:47 AM Rating: Default
SmashingtonWho wrote:
So 22 less leves per week

That's a lot of SP lost. Hope the other changes make up for it.

Was I correct in understanding that I could literally do the exact same leve over and over though if I run back every time I complete it?

If so then it might actually not be so bad. (The SP hit is still going to hurt though. ><)
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#14 Sep 09 2011 at 8:29 AM Rating: Good
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
For one, if you only log in on the weekend you will have 54 leves you can split between Sat. and Sun. This will be great for many casual players.


Point of clarification please: Does this mean available leves automatically accrue at the rate of four every 12 hours up to a maximum of 99, or would players still need to log in at least once every 12 hours to manually add them to their available options?

If it's the latter, I don't see how this helps out a player who only logs in on the weekend unless I'm completely misunderstanding.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 10:31am by Whales
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#15 Sep 09 2011 at 8:43 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
So 22 less leves per week

That's a lot of SP lost. Hope the other changes make up for it.

Was I correct in understanding that I could literally do the exact same leve over and over though if I run back every time I complete it?

If so then it might actually not be so bad. (The SP hit is still going to hurt though. ><)

This is, unfortunately, a necessary evil if they want to retain a balance on the amount of experience you can get from Regional Leves. Players who are only interested in leveling one job to cap can now get 8 Regional Leves every 24 hours, rather than every 36, meaning an overall 150% greater amount of experience. On the other hand, people who want to diversify get hit by being forced to deal with an overall smaller amount of Leves to work with. This change tailors well to casual solo players, but not so well to midcoretm and hardcore players - which, in essence, is what Yoshi-P claimed he wanted to make Leves. Similarly, given that classic experience parties seem to be receiving a lot of attention this update, it is quite possible that midcoretm and hardcore players will be better served doing that rather than using their Leves anyway.
Whales wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
For one, if you only log in on the weekend you will have 54 leves you can split between Sat. and Sun. This will be great for many casual players.


Point of clarification please: Does this mean available leves automatically accrue at the rate of four every 12 hours up to a maximum of 99, or would players still need to log in at least once every 12 hours to manually add them to their available options?

If it's the latter, I don't see how this helps out a player who only logs in on the weekend unless I'm completely misunderstanding.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 10:31am by Whales

They are also adding a ticket system that stores up unused Leve choices, so you do not need to pick up the Leves every 12 hours to get the credit (not experience credit, Leve credit).
#16 Sep 09 2011 at 8:47 AM Rating: Good
Whales, it seems clear that you will not have to log in to acrue Leve allowances.

State, I read that the same way.

Quote:
The Adventurers’ Guild will update its list of leves when you complete (or fail) a levequest, or when an additional allowance is issued.


So if you complete a Local Leve, there is a chance that the same Leve will be reissued upon returning to The Adventurer's Guild, even during the same 12 hour window.
#17 Sep 09 2011 at 8:54 AM Rating: Good
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I only sometimes do 8 and 8 leves every 36 hours. Most of the time I only do 6 battle and all 8 crafting and even then it's not every 36 hours. I think overall this will be a good thing. For instance if this week I decide I only want to craft, I'll have more leves, overall, to do. Then if next week all I want to do is battle, once again I'll be able to do more leves.

State makes a good point that I was concerned about also, but overall I like this change. With a minor adjustment to play style, this will be a benefit to me.
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#18 Sep 09 2011 at 8:55 AM Rating: Default
Hulan wrote:
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
So 22 less leves per week

That's a lot of SP lost. Hope the other changes make up for it.

Was I correct in understanding that I could literally do the exact same leve over and over though if I run back every time I complete it?

If so then it might actually not be so bad. (The SP hit is still going to hurt though. ><)

This is, unfortunately, a necessary evil if they want to retain a balance on the amount of experience you can get from Regional Leves. Players who are only interested in leveling one job to cap can now get 8 Regional Leves every 24 hours, rather than every 36, meaning an overall 150% greater amount of experience. On the other hand, people who want to diversify get hit by being forced to deal with an overall smaller amount of Leves to work with. This change tailors well to casual solo players, but not so well to midcoretm and hardcore players - which, in essence, is what Yoshi-P claimed he wanted to make Leves. Similarly, given that classic experience parties seem to be receiving a lot of attention this update, it is quite possible that midcoretm and hardcore players will be better served doing that rather than using their Leves anyway.
Whales wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
For one, if you only log in on the weekend you will have 54 leves you can split between Sat. and Sun. This will be great for many casual players.


Point of clarification please: Does this mean available leves automatically accrue at the rate of four every 12 hours up to a maximum of 99, or would players still need to log in at least once every 12 hours to manually add them to their available options?

If it's the latter, I don't see how this helps out a player who only logs in on the weekend unless I'm completely misunderstanding.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 10:31am by Whales

They are also adding a ticket system that stores up unused Leve choices, so you do not need to pick up the Leves every 12 hours to get the credit (not experience credit, Leve credit).

So let me get this straight. In the beginning SE implemented the fatigue system. Designed to force people to diversify or get hit with penalties for grinding one job.

Now SE is taking a complete opposite stand and saying: If you wanna level only one job great! Have fun! But if you wanna level 2 jobs...(at least a combination of regional leve job and local leve job) then your screwed. It doesn't make any sense.
At the moment I use leves for Botany (Regional) and 1 DoH job (doesnt matter which). This allows me to maximize my 8 and 8 every 36 hours. Now I have to sacrifice progress in one class or the other because they want to combine the totals? Why couldn't they just have left them seperated on a 36 hour clock and used the exact same system?
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#19 Sep 09 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Decent
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Whales, it seems clear that you will not have to log in to acrue Leve allowances.

State, I read that the same way.

Quote:
The Adventurers’ Guild will update its list of leves when you complete (or fail) a levequest, or when an additional allowance is issued.


So if you complete a Local Leve, there is a chance that the same Leve will be reissued upon returning to The Adventurer's Guild, even during the same 12 hour window.

Ok nice. At least I can do all my botany leves at treespeak now instead of traveling to LL.
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#20 Sep 09 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
Now I have to sacrifice progress in one class or the other because they want to combine the totals? Why couldn't they just have left them seperated on a 36 hour clock and used the exact same system?

As to that, looking at it from a neutral perspective, it makes sense given what Yoshi-P has said recently. He has clearly taken some time to think over the direction he wants to take Leves and the game in general and decided that the original direction taken by Tanaka and his team was misguided.

What I said in my last post aside (the whole 4 every 12 hours thing was definitely a method to balance the new system when compared to the old system, but putting that aside for a moment), the overall changes to the Guildleve system smack of less of an attempt to balance them, and more of an attempt to retool them. He has said that Guildleves will become less and less the focus of the game and more and more useful for players who casually log in occasionally. This change is absolutely 100% ideal for that demographic. Casual players will not only have the ability to store Leves from days they can't play, but they also will be able to spend those Leves in a more focused way, getting themselves to level 50 on their one chosen class quickly (as apposed to hardcore players who likely want to/have time to level several classes to 50 at the same time).

I don't deny that this shoots hardcore players in the foot. But, truth be told, that's sort of exactly what Yoshi-P said he was going to do. I consider myself a midcore player, somewhere between casual and hardcore, so I will include myself in this statement: we will just have to wait and see what Yoshi-P adds to the rest of the game before deciding if this is for the good or bad. If long experience parties prove to be fruitful, for instance, it's hardly a detriment to us if Leves are less useful for hardcore players, since we have the time to devote to longer experience parties.
#21 Sep 09 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
Hulan wrote:
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
Now I have to sacrifice progress in one class or the other because they want to combine the totals? Why couldn't they just have left them seperated on a 36 hour clock and used the exact same system?

As to that, looking at it from a neutral perspective, it makes sense given what Yoshi-P has said recently. He has clearly taken some time to think over the direction he wants to take Leves and the game in general and decided that the original direction taken by Tanaka and his team was misguided.

What I said in my last post aside (the whole 4 every 12 hours thing was definitely a method to balance the new system when compared to the old system, but putting that aside for a moment), the overall changes to the Guildleve system smack of less of an attempt to balance them, and more of an attempt to retool them. He has said that Guildleves will become less and less the focus of the game and more and more useful for players who casually log in occasionally. This change is absolutely 100% ideal for that demographic. Casual players will not only have the ability to store Leves from days they can't play, but they also will be able to spend those Leves in a more focused way, getting themselves to level 50 on their one chosen class quickly (as apposed to hardcore players who likely want to/have time to level several classes to 50 at the same time).

I don't deny that this shoots hardcore players in the foot. But, truth be told, that's sort of exactly what Yoshi-P said he was going to do. I consider myself a midcore player, somewhere between casual and hardcore, so I will include myself in this statement: we will just have to wait and see what Yoshi-P adds to the rest of the game before deciding if this is for the good or bad. If long experience parties prove to be fruitful, for instance, it's hardly a detriment to us if Leves are less useful for hardcore players, since we have the time to devote to longer experience parties.


I will be fine with this if they remove gathering fatigue then. Unless Yoshi-P is also deciding that DoL/DoH are no longer going to be classes, but exactly what they were in FFXI. There's no parties for non-combat classes.
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#22 Sep 09 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
I will be fine with this if they remove gathering fatigue then. Unless Yoshi-P is also deciding that DoL/DoH are no longer going to be classes, but exactly what they were in FFXI. There's no parties for non-combat classes.

On this we are agreed, although I'm afraid it looks grim. I think we're probably more likely to see the dev team edge further and further away from the stance that DoL/DoH are full on classes, rather than balancing them to standard classes.
#23 Sep 09 2011 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
Hulan wrote:
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
So 22 less leves per week

That's a lot of SP lost. Hope the other changes make up for it.

Was I correct in understanding that I could literally do the exact same leve over and over though if I run back every time I complete it?

If so then it might actually not be so bad. (The SP hit is still going to hurt though. ><)

This is, unfortunately, a necessary evil if they want to retain a balance on the amount of experience you can get from Regional Leves. Players who are only interested in leveling one job to cap can now get 8 Regional Leves every 24 hours, rather than every 36, meaning an overall 150% greater amount of experience. On the other hand, people who want to diversify get hit by being forced to deal with an overall smaller amount of Leves to work with. This change tailors well to casual solo players, but not so well to midcoretm and hardcore players - which, in essence, is what Yoshi-P claimed he wanted to make Leves. Similarly, given that classic experience parties seem to be receiving a lot of attention this update, it is quite possible that midcoretm and hardcore players will be better served doing that rather than using their Leves anyway.
Whales wrote:
SmashingtonWho wrote:
For one, if you only log in on the weekend you will have 54 leves you can split between Sat. and Sun. This will be great for many casual players.


Point of clarification please: Does this mean available leves automatically accrue at the rate of four every 12 hours up to a maximum of 99, or would players still need to log in at least once every 12 hours to manually add them to their available options?

If it's the latter, I don't see how this helps out a player who only logs in on the weekend unless I'm completely misunderstanding.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 10:31am by Whales

They are also adding a ticket system that stores up unused Leve choices, so you do not need to pick up the Leves every 12 hours to get the credit (not experience credit, Leve credit).

So let me get this straight. In the beginning SE implemented the fatigue system. Designed to force people to diversify or get hit with penalties for grinding one job.

Now SE is taking a complete opposite stand and saying: If you wanna level only one job great! Have fun! But if you wanna level 2 jobs...(at least a combination of regional leve job and local leve job) then your screwed. It doesn't make any sense.
At the moment I use leves for Botany (Regional) and 1 DoH job (doesnt matter which). This allows me to maximize my 8 and 8 every 36 hours. Now I have to sacrifice progress in one class or the other because they want to combine the totals? Why couldn't they just have left them seperated on a 36 hour clock and used the exact same system?


Uhm yeah didn't you notice this trend? For job they're doing the same thing. They're saying you won't be able to get a lot of abilities from other classes when you use a job... which means why bother leveling other jobs to make yourself stronger? ... Which is against what they originally wanted too!
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#24 Sep 09 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Default
RedGalka wrote:
Uhm yeah didn't you notice this trend? For job they're doing the same thing. They're saying you won't be able to get a lot of abilities from other classes when you use a job... which means why bother leveling other jobs to make yourself stronger? ... Which is against what they originally wanted too!


If you look at my signature you'd notice I don't really play DoW/M classes. How they toy around with combat/combat classes doesn't concern me at the moment. However any major changes that inhibit my ability to enjoy the game in a non-combat environment severely impact me. Hence my disdain (for now) over the Levequest system changes.

I would love to hear difinitively from Yoshi-P what direction he plans on taking when it comes down to deciding what to do with DoH/L. I don't mind fighting, and I will eventually I am sure. But so far I have done the whole main storyline from start to finish without fighting, and have enjoyed what DoH/L classes have to offer (even if it isn't much).

Pushing the game forward in the right direction as far as DoW/M goes is fine, as long as they don't run over DoL/H in the process.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 12:14pm by StateAlchemist
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#25 Sep 09 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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I like the idea of storing up leves. When I played before I felt the need to stop what I was doing and make sure I get my leves done before they reset, regardless if I really felt like doing them. Now this won't be a problem. It is also nice for a lot of casual players. Some casual players might play an hour or two a day, while others may play for 5 hours just once a week. Before, the system was more geared towards the first group, but this will help the latter.
#26 Sep 09 2011 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent
If you only do Local Leves you will get more now.

Potentially you can do 54 Local Leves instead of just 36 per week.

That's good right?

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 12:47pm by SmashingtonWho
#27 Sep 09 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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On one hand, I want to say that this annoys me, as I did my 16 leves every reset, and now will only have 12.

On the other hand, you can now do 12 leves on a single class, when local leves, I usually spread to 4 or 5 jobs every reset.

If you look at it objectively, it was always weird that Regional leves, you could do all 8 on the class of your choice with little effort, but local leves usually "forced" you to diversify.

I guess that at the end of the day, I'll try to wait and see it in action before I throw a table or something else silly.
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#28 Sep 09 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
Vawn43 wrote:
I like the idea of storing up leves. When I played before I felt the need to stop what I was doing and make sure I get my leves done before they reset, regardless if I really felt like doing them. Now this won't be a problem. It is also nice for a lot of casual players. Some casual players might play an hour or two a day, while others may play for 5 hours just once a week. Before, the system was more geared towards the first group, but this will help the latter.

Yeah I agree that this will benefit quite a few players, just not me. lol

SmashingtonWho wrote:
If you only do Local Leves you will get more now.

Potentially you can do 54 Local Leves instead of just 36 per week.

That's good right?

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 12:47pm by SmashingtonWho

If all I did was Locals, sure. But I do Fieldcraft Levequests too. So this actually hurts me, unless I decide to shift my focus more to either DoL or DoH. Then I guess I could say it benefits me. I liked the balance though, now I will have to rework my approach to doing a DoL and DoH at the same time. Because of this, I might actually stop doing Local Levequests all-together. Will cost me more gil though. I will have to wait and see after about 1 week once this is implemented to really say for sure whether or not the change is detrimental to me or not. It's just from the sounds of it. Running the numbers in my head tells me it isn't for the better (at least to someone like me).

But kinda off topicish...wish they would confirm a patch date for 1.19 already.
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#29 Sep 09 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Decent
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I always thought it stupid to split up Regional and Local leves but include Gathering leves in with DoW/DoM.

Now everything is shared. I don't know anyone who has the time to do 8 local and 8 regional at each reset unless they had an anima mule.

There is 100% win to this.
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#30 Sep 09 2011 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
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This is nice, since I often don't feel like doing leves (have a bunch of leves from the last two resets sitting on my list) - and it always annoyed me that they weren't there when I when I needed them. So if I feel like spending all day grinding on carpenter, I can!

That said, they really ought to add more variety in the leves.
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#31 Sep 09 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
Louiscool wrote:
unless they had an anima mule.

It is possible to walk everywhere...lol. Might take a while, but I do it a lot.

EDIT: And let me tell ya... walking from Grid to Crimson Bark and the from Crimson Bark to Treespeak isn't fun. Not to mention the DoL "stealth" they are coming out with...does nothing for the trip to Crimson Bark. The mobs are 50+.


edit: the unnecessary defaults are getting annoying
Edited, Sep 9th 2011 1:57pm by StateAlchemist

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 5:13pm by StateAlchemist
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#32 Sep 09 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
Olorinus wrote:
That said, they really ought to add more variety in the leves.


Would be nice. Also, would like to see them changing rewards for high ranking leves to something more suitable.
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#33 Sep 09 2011 at 12:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Hulan wrote:
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
Now I have to sacrifice progress in one class or the other because they want to combine the totals? Why couldn't they just have left them seperated on a 36 hour clock and used the exact same system?

As to that, looking at it from a neutral perspective, it makes sense given what Yoshi-P has said recently. He has clearly taken some time to think over the direction he wants to take Leves and the game in general and decided that the original direction taken by Tanaka and his team was misguided.

What I said in my last post aside (the whole 4 every 12 hours thing was definitely a method to balance the new system when compared to the old system, but putting that aside for a moment), the overall changes to the Guildleve system smack of less of an attempt to balance them, and more of an attempt to retool them. He has said that Guildleves will become less and less the focus of the game and more and more useful for players who casually log in occasionally. This change is absolutely 100% ideal for that demographic. Casual players will not only have the ability to store Leves from days they can't play, but they also will be able to spend those Leves in a more focused way, getting themselves to level 50 on their one chosen class quickly (as apposed to hardcore players who likely want to/have time to level several classes to 50 at the same time).

I don't deny that this shoots hardcore players in the foot. But, truth be told, that's sort of exactly what Yoshi-P said he was going to do. I consider myself a midcore player, somewhere between casual and hardcore, so I will include myself in this statement: we will just have to wait and see what Yoshi-P adds to the rest of the game before deciding if this is for the good or bad. If long experience parties prove to be fruitful, for instance, it's hardly a detriment to us if Leves are less useful for hardcore players, since we have the time to devote to longer experience parties.



Everything you said makes sense......for a population 3 to 4 times larger then what it is currently. I guess I can be classified as a hard core solo player as I paly almost everyday. This is not by choice. Because of multiple factors I am restricted to playing during NA daytime. I am on Lindblum based out of Limsa because of my crafting choices. During that time period I have not found any English speaking groups that are on during this time period. Therefore the only way for me to progress is through the levee system. This new system will place a handicap on that. Please do not misunderstand me. I remain in game because I fully expect Yoshi-P to turn the game around to make it worth something alot of people will want to play and I can deversify. These changes would have made more sense at that point then they do now. As it is I will probably have to take a 2 week hiatus in order to accure enough levees to play at the level I do now.
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#34 Sep 09 2011 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I see more than enough groups killing raptors around Iron Lake, on Lindblum during, your time, but they still shout for parties in Uldah. It just seems to make more sense to shout in one spot, one city, instead of having to shout in three different ones.

It's usually the same people forming parties too. You could ask if they befriend you and then they'll spamm you all day long in tells when you're on. You wouldn't even have to teleport to Uldah to look at the shouts in that case.
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#35 Sep 09 2011 at 2:39 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
Vawn43 wrote:
I like the idea of storing up leves. When I played before I felt the need to stop what I was doing and make sure I get my leves done before they reset, regardless if I really felt like doing them. Now this won't be a problem. It is also nice for a lot of casual players. Some casual players might play an hour or two a day, while others may play for 5 hours just once a week. Before, the system was more geared towards the first group, but this will help the latter.

Yeah I agree that this will benefit quite a few players, just not me. lol

[quote=SmashingtonWho]If you only do Local Leves you will get more now.

Potentially you can do 54 Local Leves instead of just 36 per week.

That's good right?

If all I did was Locals, sure. But I do Fieldcraft Levequests too. So this actually hurts me, unless I decide to shift my focus more to either DoL or DoH. Then I guess I could say it benefits me. I liked the balance though, now I will have to rework my approach to doing a DoL and DoH at the same time. Because of this, I might actually stop doing Local Levequests all-together. Will cost me more gil though. I will have to wait and see after about 1 week once this is implemented to really say for sure whether or not the change is detrimental to me or not. It's just from the sounds of it. Running the numbers in my head tells me it isn't for the better (at least to someone like me).

But kinda off topicish...wish they would confirm a patch date for 1.19 already.


You actually do Fieldcraft leves for SP? Personally I don't see this as a problem because I use DoL leves for guild points only then grind out SP normally which to me earns a **** of a lot more SP per hour than doing leves.

I would do leves for archer and then grind out SP for botanist before I started focusing on just archer.

If you're only doing DoL and DoH classes at the moment to me it would make more sense to use the leves for DoH to save Gil and gain guild points and just grind your DoL classes normally for better efficiency.
#36 Sep 09 2011 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default
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Typical FF update, We are taking this away and giving you this instead. they never give without taking away something.How about i choose how i want to do my leves idiots.
#37 Sep 09 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
CupDeNoodles wrote:
You actually do Fieldcraft leves for SP? Personally I don't see this as a problem because I use DoL leves for guild points only then grind out SP normally which to me earns a **** of a lot more SP per hour than doing leves.

I would do leves for archer and then grind out SP for botanist before I started focusing on just archer.

If you're only doing DoL and DoH classes at the moment to me it would make more sense to use the leves for DoH to save Gil and gain guild points and just grind your DoL classes normally for better efficiency.


Yeah I do Fieldcraft for SP on Botanist at the moment. I don't do so for crafting because between gettign the leves, synthing them, and running around to turn them in, I can just sit and grind on a set path of items and get the same or more SP. I do however to certain DoH leves for guild marks (at the moment I am doing Carpentry to finish getting all abilities, and occasionally a few Weaver Leves to get the rest of the Marks I need for Spinning Training.) but for the most part I just don't use them to grind on. So by reducing my total number of leves within a 36 hour period, I now have to choose between SP on Botanist, or Guild Marks for Carpenter/Weaver.

At the moment, besides getting Spinning Training, the SP on Bot is more important.

(The main reason I only SP on Leves as Botanist at the moment, is because I use Botanist as my main money maker. I farm lower grades so the SP is lowsy and eats up my remaining gathering fatigue points. By SPing on Leves I maximize my SP/success, while still saving gathering points for farming.)

If they removed gathering fatigue I could just grind normally on Botanist without affecting my farming, and use all my Leves on DoH, which would then make this new system good for me.
Edited, Sep 9th 2011 5:10pm by StateAlchemist

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 5:11pm by StateAlchemist
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#38 Sep 09 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I've found that doing leves on fisher is an incredibly efficient way to get SP... in no time at all I rake in tons of SP.
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#39 Sep 09 2011 at 3:25 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:

If you look at my signature you'd notice I don't really play DoW/M classes. How they toy around with combat/combat classes doesn't concern me at the moment. However any major changes that inhibit my ability to enjoy the game in a non-combat environment severely impact me. Hence my disdain (for now) over the Levequest system changes.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 12:14pm by StateAlchemist


Hello, SE? I chose to completely ignore a major portion of your game's content. Now i'm annoyed that you aren't catering to my decision. In fact, you're making it easier for everyone else to take part in ALL the content! WTF SE!
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#40 Sep 09 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
CupDeNoodles wrote:
You actually do Fieldcraft leves for SP? Personally I don't see this as a problem because I use DoL leves for guild points only then grind out SP normally which to me earns a **** of a lot more SP per hour than doing leves.

I would do leves for archer and then grind out SP for botanist before I started focusing on just archer.

If you're only doing DoL and DoH classes at the moment to me it would make more sense to use the leves for DoH to save Gil and gain guild points and just grind your DoL classes normally for better efficiency.


Yeah I do Fieldcraft for SP on Botanist at the moment. I don't do so for crafting because between gettign the leves, synthing them, and running around to turn them in, I can just sit and grind on a set path of items and get the same or more SP. I do however to certain DoH leves for guild marks (at the moment I am doing Carpentry to finish getting all abilities, and occasionally a few Weaver Leves to get the rest of the Marks I need for Spinning Training.) but for the most part I just don't use them to grind on. So by reducing my total number of leves within a 36 hour period, I now have to choose between SP on Botanist, or Guild Marks for Carpenter/Weaver.

At the moment, besides getting Spinning Training, the SP on Bot is more important.

(The main reason I only SP on Leves as Botanist at the moment, is because I use Botanist as my main money maker. I farm lower grades so the SP is lowsy and eats up my remaining gathering fatigue points. By SPing on Leves I maximize my SP/success, while still saving gathering points for farming.)

If they removed gathering fatigue I could just grind normally on Botanist without affecting my farming, and use all my Leves on DoH, which would then make this new system good for me.


So you're trading SP gain for the opportunity to make money, correct? The way I look at it is you either make the best SP/hr or you balance less SP/hr while gaining Gil. There is nothing stopping you from just grinding Botanist and saving leves for something else other than wanting to make Gil. Also fatigue isn't really an issue for most people. Granted I would like to see it go myself but it isn't that impeding. I rarely hit it while grinding Botanist near Iron Lake and it resets in 24hours from 100% fatigue if I remember correctly.
#41 Sep 09 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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The update most clearly favours those who were not logging in every single leve reset and doing every leve they had available. As others have said, this favours casual players by allowing them to do more leves than they otherwise would have been able to do.

However, even a hardcore player doesn't necessarily log in every single reset without variation. We need to consider that this also makes it so that, if a hardcore player has something to do one day and (gods forbid!) doesn't log on, they'll probably be able to complete more leves than they would have been able to do under the old system.

In short: yes, this is an update for casual "weekend" players, but it could also help hardcore because, hey, even a hardcore player might have something else to do every now and then. XD

Also, a hardcore player doing leves and grinding throughout the week will still progress far faster than a weekend casual. In fact, maybe that hardcore player could even save a few leves to link with them! Both parties win, then!
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#42 Sep 09 2011 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
Llester wrote:
StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:

If you look at my signature you'd notice I don't really play DoW/M classes. How they toy around with combat/combat classes doesn't concern me at the moment. However any major changes that inhibit my ability to enjoy the game in a non-combat environment severely impact me. Hence my disdain (for now) over the Levequest system changes.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 12:14pm by StateAlchemist


Hello, SE? I chose to completely ignore a major portion of your game's content. Now i'm annoyed that you aren't catering to my decision. In fact, you're making it easier for everyone else to take part in ALL the content! WTF SE!

Only comment I will make to this is SE promoted DoH/L as main class. I am not ignoring anything I am choosing a path SE offered me, and now am minorly annoyed at the lack of attention the majority (yes majority, DoH/L make up 61% of playable classes) of classes are getting.

I don't mind SE working on the Battle System, and giving you guys some options, as long as they don't forget about us.

Anyway, while I would love to continue this enthralling conversation, I am obviously being karma trolled by some people that take offense to anyone that doesn't roll over a lap up whatever SE is dishing out. Sorry that I play the game more then you. Sorry that anything that impacts hardcore players annoy me. Doesn't mean people have to be rude and put someones opinion down because they think that the game should only cater to casuals.

And don't try and say I am being the same jsut on the opposite side, because I am not. They could have left the system divided with 8/8 leves per 36 while still adding the storage of leves and made both sides happy.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 5:45pm by StateAlchemist

EDIT: I'm done with this thread I have work to do still on the wiki pages.

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 5:50pm by StateAlchemist
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#43 Sep 09 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Personally I really like this change as work and other stuff have been taking up more of my hours lately lol. I agree with the above that they could have just kept the same rate of leves (16 leves per 36 hours) and added the storage system on top of it, but I'll take the added flexibility over the the maximum possible total number/time-period. I have also been playing since CE release over a year ago and spent more time on DoH/DoL than DoW/DoM so far. I can't stand *grinding* crafting/gathering however so I can say safely over 90% of my total SP has been from leves, but I still like this change especially with the new (hopefully good) content coming up - providing more flexibility to spend time doing other stuff besides leves, but not feel like you're "losing out" on anything either.

I think everyone at some point will take a vacation, go on a trip, or just take a break from the game, etc. So I think the system will at least provide some benefit to everyone at some point.


Edited, Sep 9th 2011 6:03pm by zpanda

Edited, Sep 9th 2011 6:08pm by zpanda
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#44 Sep 09 2011 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
Only comment I will make to this is SE promoted DoH/L as main class. I am not ignoring anything I am choosing a path SE offered me


People need to give this argument a rest. It doesn't matter what Tanaka (the long-since-fired dev.) said - not did, mind you - but merely said about the game before it was even released well over a year and a half ago, DoL and DoH are nowhere near "full classes" and they have never been.

Tanaka said lots of things. FFXIV is not the same game anymore; there's a new team now and they're doing different things. You're welcome to take up armourer, if you want, and stand there pondering why you can't help out in battle like Tanaka promised; you're welcome to change to weaver and pout about how your "weaving of cloth was supposed to be as powerful as the weaving of spells;" but these are fantasies that, at least in this Final Fantasy, will not come to fruition.

If you're still clinging to dreamy promises made by olde Tanaka, who obviously didn't deliver in any capacity, it's time to wake up.
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#45 Sep 10 2011 at 4:39 AM Rating: Good
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I agree with some folks that this might end up harming more than helping, but then again we're basing the judgement upon the way leves are currently.

Most (not all) the actions that the devs have taken lately are to boost our SP gains across the board for all classes. I'm sure they have done the math just as we have, and have seen it'll be 20+ less leves per week. In addtion, they already pretty much destroyed gil rewards, and the exchange bonus has become pointless for most leves. My point is that the new eval system might be a way of boosting both SP and gil rewards based on your history/sequential turn-ins, and that's why the new system. Thus, the total amount of SP and gil tallied at the end of a week would come out to be close, or more, to what the old system was granting, despite the fact we're given fewer leves to accomplish.

I also noticed they didn't state they're removing turn-in SP reward, so that seems as if it will stay the same.

I think the intention is two-fold:

1. Give players more freedom to alternate between classes on a regular basis without having to plan ahead as much.
2. Allow casual players to still have the opportunity to match hardcore players' SP/gil gains via leves, so everyone is on relatively equal footing.

The biggest problem that I forsee is if they don't expand leves for every class, since I have heard no response stating that the same leves can stack via the ticketing system. In other words, it'll be pointless to log in every 12 hours, only to find you still have no leves available (like for Alchemist R35+). We shouldn't be limited if we want to go on a crafting or gathering binge on the weekend simply because SE was too lazy to create new leves. I suppose that you could always just camp out at the leve counter on your designated day...lol.

In all honesty, i'm in the middle here...I can see the major drawbacks if this isn't implemented properly, which is why so many are railing against it.

Edited, Sep 10th 2011 3:50am by Dallie
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#46 Sep 10 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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Dallie wrote:
We shouldn't be limited if we want to go on a crafting or gathering binge on the weekend simply because SE was too lazy to create new leves.


It's sad that this is even an issue because leves themselves are already the laziest solution to any kind of content.
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#47 Sep 10 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
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Maybe I'm wrong here, but ideally the "hardcore" player is using parties and other game systems to level up... So if the "hardcore" player is playing in an ideal manner, this shouldn't affect them at all...

I'm inteterested to see how this pans out. I'd LIKE to be a hardcore player, but I only have one or two days a weeks I can soley dedicate to the game. The way I'm understanding this change, is that it should benefit players like myself when it comes to keeping up with the full time players.
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#48 Sep 10 2011 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Hardcore player would go for optimal sp gain in shortest amount of time to cap their class.

Leves still seems the best and fastest way to get sp.
Same for behests.
Then sp grind area.

So filling a whole day would probably be:

1) Get leves.
2) Do leves, but give priority to behest.
3) Start grinding, but do behest if it's close by.

Iron Lake is a very effective area to do this right now.
If you're in a small grind party you could do this as well at BW on ogres.


I think hardcore players after the changes will probably stop doing every day too. It's seems far more efficient for them as well to horde them for a period and then do a whole day.

Unless... grinding in dungeons will be more effecient than leves. Training a whole area and burning them down might be more efficient than even leves.
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#49 Sep 10 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Only comment I will make to this is SE promoted DoH/L as main class.

That, my little Hobbit, was a looong looong time ago.
And most people I know are pretty happy about that.
#50 Sep 10 2011 at 2:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Dallie wrote:
since I have heard no response stating that the same leves can stack via the ticketing system.


I mean I know Square in the past has done some pretty stupid sh*t but to implement this system and not allow someone to store up leves of their level would be utterly ridiculous. I'm pretty sure they've taken that into consideration because otherwise what would be the point?

I foresee being able to pick as many leves of your level as you would have tickets for even if they were duplicates.

Edit: Which leads me to believe at some point people will get tired of doing the same leve quest over and over and demand more leves. lol

"Square why u no have more variety?!" at which point they will scratch their heads and wonder why the **** no one is doing the other leves.

I mean that's what people did in the past with linking the popular leves right? Like that Dunesfolk one.

Edited, Sep 10th 2011 4:06pm by CupDeNoodles
#51 Sep 11 2011 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist the Eccentric wrote:
Louiscool wrote:
unless they had an anima mule.

It is possible to walk everywhere...lol. Might take a while, but I do it a lot.

EDIT: And let me tell ya... walking from Grid to Crimson Bark and the from Crimson Bark to Treespeak isn't fun. Not to mention the DoL "stealth" they are coming out with...does nothing for the trip to Crimson Bark. The mobs are 50+.


edit: the unnecessary defaults are getting annoying


Oh yea, I know. I try to do leves on my lunch break so I have to use anima then, which means I am always out of anima and walking everywhere. Walking is the biggest pain when doing regional leves.
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