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[dev1136] Beastman Strongholds Follow

#1 Sep 12 2011 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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They've been working hard last weekend!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/23555-dev1136-Beastman-Strongholds?p=333389#post333389

Brings back memories getting chased by trains of 'em in those Orc / Quadav / Yagudo forts....
#2 Sep 12 2011 at 5:39 AM Rating: Default
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So... just the one so far?
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#3 Sep 12 2011 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
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I hope they give us a convincing reason for slaughtering indigenous tribes we just established a trade agreement traded with in an earlier mission. Other than: "He chief, sorry, but you got that cool looking feather-crown-thing, and SE just declared you a NM, so... it's nothing personal, and you'll re-spawn in 10 minutes anyway. To be killed over and over by other adventurers."


Edited, Sep 12th 2011 7:47am by Rinsui
#4 Sep 12 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
I hope they give us a convincing reason for slaughtering indigenous tribes we just established a trade agreement traded with in an earlier mission.


I must be missing something, otherwise I can't remember when did we have a trade agreement with them. All I can remember of is they attacking trade caravan, camps, settlements, unleashing Fire Drakes on little Lalafell and summoning an Ifrit on my **** last time I was trying to have a peaceful negotiation.
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#5 Sep 12 2011 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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I'm more curious to see if this is a sectioned off area of Thanalan, or a new zone. If its a new zone, that's kind of exciting; other than dungeons, it gives us a look at the dev team's direction about zones (hopefully not just copy/pasted areas).

As for other strongholds, I believe all 3 were getting added this patch, they only detailed the one...probably to spread out update notes across multiple days.
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#6 Sep 12 2011 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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hexaemeron wrote:
So... just the one so far?




Quote:
More beastman strongholds and numerous other notorious monsters aside from those mentioned above will descend to plague Eorzea come patch 1.19. Adventurers are urged to keep their weapons honed and armor sound ahead of this mounting threat.


#7 Sep 12 2011 at 8:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Very exciting! I couldn't be happier to see the landscape start to be populated with actual stuff to do and see (finally)! Just don't forget, SE, that the copy-pasting still needs to be addressed (and never again used in future areas).
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#8 Sep 12 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Good
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^ They already have plans to re-construct the entire world map.
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#9 Sep 12 2011 at 8:16 AM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
^ They already have plans to re-construct the entire world map.


Mind linking official materials for this ?
#10 Sep 12 2011 at 9:00 AM Rating: Good
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Genkineko wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
^ They already have plans to re-construct the entire world map.


Mind linking official materials for this ?


The official materials literally say "World map reconstruction/revamp/re-do" or something to that effect. The giant compendium of upcoming changes has a link to Yoshi-P's to-do list that it's mentioned on. There have been absolutely no details about the changes to the world map, and thus no one has any idea to what degree they intend to change anything.
#11 Sep 12 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
This sounds like it could be fun.
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#12 Sep 12 2011 at 3:11 PM Rating: Good
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Genkineko wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
^ They already have plans to re-construct the entire world map.


Mind linking official materials for this ?



You previously mentioned that you guys are working on redesigning the areas. Are you more focused on changing the geography or the design?

Yoshida: Changes will be made to both the geography and the design of the areas. Some areas will be changed rather drastically, so I'd love if you all could discuss how you think the changes will be made while you're all looking forward to it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/16129-The-Community-Teams-interview-Yoshida-in-Japan!?p=225712&viewfull=1#post225712
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#13 Sep 12 2011 at 4:39 PM Rating: Good
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Wow, I had no idea they are going to revise the world map and such. I am glad to hear it though, thumbs up to SE and the dev team for really setting no limits on what they will do to make the game better.
#14 Sep 12 2011 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Yoshida: Changes will be made to both the geography and the design of the areas. Some areas will be changed rather drastically


There are several problems with Yoshida's words, unfortunately:

1.) "Geography and Design" is vague; adding as little as a campsite and a stronghold technically satisfies such claims.
2.) Yoshida says "some areas," which could be as few as two.
3.) He also says "rather drastically." Depending upon his definition of "drastic," and coupled with the qualifier "rather," this could be much less than the radical overhaul most people think is needed (maybe they'll just make Grid.'s hallways bigger, thus changing them from corridors to "open areas!").

I could be wrong, of course; I hope I am. But would like to hear:

"We're completely throwing out most of the zones in the current game and redesigning unique and detailed ones the likes of which will both inspire adventurers to explore and seem at home even in a single-player, offline Final Fantasy."

More than I would:

"Some things will be rather drastically changed."
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"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
#15 Sep 12 2011 at 6:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Beastmen strongholds were some of my favorite places in XI, even though they weren't always good grinding/farming areas I did anyways because I enjoyed it. I really hope they implement this in a good way.
#16 Sep 12 2011 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Yoshida: Changes will be made to both the geography and the design of the areas. Some areas will be changed rather drastically


There are several problems with Yoshida's words, unfortunately:

1.) "Geography and Design" is vague; adding as little as a campsite and a stronghold technically satisfies such claims.
2.) Yoshida says "some areas," which could be as few as two.
3.) He also says "rather drastically." Depending upon his definition of "drastic," and coupled with the qualifier "rather," this could be much less than the radical overhaul most people think is needed (maybe they'll just make Grid.'s hallways bigger, thus changing them from corridors to "open areas!").

I could be wrong, of course; I hope I am. But would like to hear:

"We're completely throwing out most of the zones in the current game and redesigning unique and detailed ones the likes of which will both inspire adventurers to explore and seem at home even in a single-player, offline Final Fantasy."

More than I would:

"Some things will be rather drastically changed."



Won't happen. I only cited that because someone wanted the link and the quote. But they said the world itself isn't going to change. (As in Eorzea will still be Eorzea. La Noscea will still be La Noscea, etc...) To completely throw out all the zones and start over is unrealistic given that there are cutscene instances, and whole story arcs that would need to be rebuilt.

He did state in other interviews that the maps will be re-designed and place more emphasis on important landmarks, much like FFXI did.


Edited, Sep 12th 2011 10:14pm by UltKnightGrover
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#17 Sep 12 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Yoshida: Changes will be made to both the geography and the design of the areas. Some areas will be changed rather drastically


There are several problems with Yoshida's words, unfortunately:

1.) "Geography and Design" is vague; adding as little as a campsite and a stronghold technically satisfies such claims.
2.) Yoshida says "some areas," which could be as few as two.
3.) He also says "rather drastically." Depending upon his definition of "drastic," and coupled with the qualifier "rather," this could be much less than the radical overhaul most people think is needed (maybe they'll just make Grid.'s hallways bigger, thus changing them from corridors to "open areas!").

I could be wrong, of course; I hope I am. But would like to hear:

"We're completely throwing out most of the zones in the current game and redesigning unique and detailed ones the likes of which will both inspire adventurers to explore and seem at home even in a single-player, offline Final Fantasy."

More than I would:

"Some things will be rather drastically changed."



Won't happen. I only cited that because someone wanted the link and the quote. But they said the world itself isn't going to change. (As in Eorzea will still be Eorzea. La Noscea will still be La Noscea, etc...) To completely throw out all the zones and start over is unrealistic given that there are cutscene instances, and whole story arcs that would need to be rebuilt.

He did state in other interviews that the maps will be re-designed and place more emphasis on important landmarks, much like FFXI did.


Edited, Sep 12th 2011 10:14pm by UltKnightGrover


I'm pretty sure he meant, throw them out and re-design from scratch, to have more unique geography, not, throw out the name, tileset, etc and totally redesign the entire world.
#18 Sep 12 2011 at 11:57 PM Rating: Good
The only zone that ever really got me was Gridania. It's similar (sort of) to The Sanctuary of Zi'tah but I guess I always expected it to be more...open. Give it mroe of a real forest feel, not a "I'm in a maze of canyons that happen to have trees" feel.
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#19 Sep 13 2011 at 12:49 AM Rating: Good
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The Black Shroud still feels like a forest to me, just more like an Old Growth forest, very windy paths. I would like to go into the lower, darker parts of the forest etc as well. I really enjoy the areas like near Mor Dhona, with the water, wish there were more notable areas like that, and more areas like that, that we actually frequent. No leves there sucks!

I loved the Salikawood in FFXII, would like to see parts of the Black Shroud where we are actually on giant tree limbs and hanging bridges.
#20 Sep 13 2011 at 2:22 AM Rating: Good
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While we are talking about areas, I can't wait for a snow area. Those are almost always some of my favorite areas. I know it is not at the top of their list to have new areas with so much to change even to old ones,but maybe for a future expansion. Considering how beautiful the game is and that they seem to have heard and taken to heart what people think about bad area design I have a feeling it will turn out very well. :)
#21 Sep 13 2011 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
Belcrono wrote:
While we are talking about areas, I can't wait for a snow area. Those are almost always some of my favorite areas. I know it is not at the top of their list to have new areas with so much to change even to old ones,but maybe for a future expansion. Considering how beautiful the game is and that they seem to have heard and taken to heart what people think about bad area design I have a feeling it will turn out very well. :)


As long as the give non-combat classes the ability to throw snowballs instead of stones! Smiley: nod
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#22 Sep 13 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Excellent
RamseySylph wrote:
The Black Shroud still feels like a forest to me, just more like an Old Growth forest, very windy paths. I would like to go into the lower, darker parts of the forest etc as well. I really enjoy the areas like near Mor Dhona, with the water, wish there were more notable areas like that, and more areas like that, that we actually frequent. No leves there sucks!

I loved the Salikawood in FFXII, would like to see parts of the Black Shroud where we are actually on giant tree limbs and hanging bridges.
It seems like forest in an amusement park or something. "Hey, here is a big forest, but you can only walk this path." Open the zone up more.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#23 Sep 13 2011 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
The Black Shroud still feels like a forest to me, just more like an Old Growth forest, very windy paths. I would like to go into the lower, darker parts of the forest etc as well. I really enjoy the areas like near Mor Dhona, with the water, wish there were more notable areas like that, and more areas like that, that we actually frequent. No leves there sucks!

I loved the Salikawood in FFXII, would like to see parts of the Black Shroud where we are actually on giant tree limbs and hanging bridges.
It seems like forest in an amusement park or something. "Hey, here is a big forest, but you can only walk this path." Open the zone up more.


Alright, I can live with this argument, as long as you're not also going to turn around and tell me how the game should feel more like a traditional Final Fantasy. Because if so I would raise you every forested area in every Final Fantasy ever.

With that said, I don't think the game is going to change from feeling slightly more like some closed off sets than a totally open world, unless this map overhaul is insane. I could see them adding a few more larger more open areas in The Black Shroud though. I think if there was a mixture of the more closed in areas, like walking up on giant tree limbs, or down in waterways, mixed with larger open areas, people might be satisfied.
#24 Sep 13 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Good
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UltKnightGrover wrote:
Yoshida: Changes will be made to both the geography and the design of the areas. Some areas will be changed rather drastically, so I'd love if you all could discuss how you think the changes will be made while you're all looking forward to it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/16129-The-Community-Teams-interview-Yoshida-in-Japan!?p=225712&viewfull=1#post225712


Thanks!

Anyway regarding whether they'll scrap the entire map and build it from scratch... I guess it depends how efficient the tool they're using can copy & paste, and have something like a [RANDOMIZE] map button :)
#25 Sep 13 2011 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
Considering the sheer size of areas in FFXIV and the fact that it uses seamless zoning...I don't actually mind reusing terrain features across the map...I just wish they had more features (even if they are all still reused a lot). And of course having more unique features/landmarks would offset the fact that a lot of terrain features are reused.
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#26 Sep 14 2011 at 6:42 AM Rating: Good
RamseySylph wrote:
Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
The Black Shroud still feels like a forest to me, just more like an Old Growth forest, very windy paths. I would like to go into the lower, darker parts of the forest etc as well. I really enjoy the areas like near Mor Dhona, with the water, wish there were more notable areas like that, and more areas like that, that we actually frequent. No leves there sucks!

I loved the Salikawood in FFXII, would like to see parts of the Black Shroud where we are actually on giant tree limbs and hanging bridges.
It seems like forest in an amusement park or something. "Hey, here is a big forest, but you can only walk this path." Open the zone up more.


Alright, I can live with this argument, as long as you're not also going to turn around and tell me how the game should feel more like a traditional Final Fantasy. Because if so I would raise you every forested area in every Final Fantasy ever.

With that said, I don't think the game is going to change from feeling slightly more like some closed off sets than a totally open world, unless this map overhaul is insane. I could see them adding a few more larger more open areas in The Black Shroud though. I think if there was a mixture of the more closed in areas, like walking up on giant tree limbs, or down in waterways, mixed with larger open areas, people might be satisfied.
Nek forest in EQ2 had a basic path for you to follow, but there were places where you go to the upper level that was off the path, and I liked that. Jugner Forest in XI was nice, too.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#27 Sep 14 2011 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
I've always thought that Chocobos would eliminate most of the complaints about zone size/design.
#28 Sep 14 2011 at 3:30 PM Rating: Good
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
I've always thought that Chocobos would eliminate most of the complaints about zone size/design.


It's not that it takes a long time to get anywhere. It's that there's only a few places to get to.

Most of the map is repeated, or otherwise barren or useless.

There are a few visually distinct and interesting areas, but thanks to nothing to do in those places... (The canyons in Thanalan, the waterway area in western shroud, etc.) what basically happens is, players pend 90% of their time in the same few places, which are all clones of each other.
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