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"Future of the Repair System" Letter from Yoshi-PFollow

#1 Sep 14 2011 at 12:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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Since making this post the official translation was posted, and is now at the bottom of this post.

I read this this morning, and only now am realizing this still hasn't been translated into English, or posted anywhere that I've seen. I'm going to post the original Japanese here, as I am not paid to translate, nor would I try to insinuate that I can translate well enough to not cause some sort of misunderstanding, and create a whole bunch of drama until the official translation is posted. Also, this is a long *** post.

But there are a few things I thought were noteworthy that I'd like to share with you all before I go off to bed. Mostly these are the actual changes coming in 1.19, I'll briefly touch on what the rest of the post was about after.

Changes for 1.19
  • There will be a “Repair NPC” and a “Merchant NPC” stationed at every Aetheryte/Settlement
  • NPC item repairs are being standardized at 100G/500G/1000G/2100G/5000G per dark matter rank
  • Dark matter vendor prices are being reduced to 50G/300G/700G/1500G/3500G
  • NPCs will now repair items to 99%, will still need crafter repairs to sell an item
  • Items with 1% to 100% durability will give full stat bonuses
  • Items with durability of 0 will be treated as giving absolutely no stats to the user
  • Items will only display the yellow warning between 1 and 10% durability
  • Items will only display the red warning at 0% durability


The rest of the letter, he is basically talking about how the repair system is broken and needs to be fixed. How it will be a multi-stage fix through 1.2 and beyond. He also mentions that 1.19 is mostly centered around a quick fix for NPC repairs, and further changes for crafter repairs, making it easier, faster, better usability, etc. will come in the future.

There's also a bit about how repairs need to remain as an incentive for risk vs. reward, etc. General MMO design philosophy stuff which I believe he went over in his last letter, so it's mostly redundant.

Anyways, that's about it! I am happy for the color coding changes, I hated having yellow and red icon, and generally repaired stuff way too early. As for the rest of the fixes, I'm hoping crafter repairs will still be of use in the future.

Oh, and he mentioned the idea of repair kits. So let's hope those are coming in the future, they won't be here for 1.19 though!

PS. If you think something was translated improperly, or that I am providing false information, then you are probably more fluent than I am and should speak up! I don't mind being proven wrong, but I'm fairly certain everything in that bullet list was correct, it was pretty hard to not understand it.

NaokiYoshida wrote:
修理システムの今後について
プロデューサ/ディレクタの吉田です。

熱いディスカッションありがとうございます。
ここ一週間、目眩がするほどの過密スケジュールで、ポストが遅れてしまいました。ごめんなさい。
その間に、経済にまで話題が及んでしまっていますが、まずはミニマムレベルから。
装備アイテムの修理について、パッチ1.19とパッチ1.20以降の修正予定について、
ポストさせて頂きますね!(経済はひとつひとつのシステムが「正常化」してからじゃないと
切り口が多すぎて議論になり難いと思います)

■前提として■

このポストを皮切りに、数日かけて幾つかのポストを行いますが、
FFXIVと現世代MMORPGについて、吉田の考える根本的な方向性を
次回レターにて記載させて頂く予定です。レター公開後は、そちらも併せてお読みください。
……とはいえ、現状の作業状況を考えるとレターはパッチ1.19公開直前になりそうです。
その間、パッチ1.19の進捗は、ご要望頂いている、動画にて公開予定です!

■修理について全体の方針■

吉田がデスペナルティを検討するとき、現世代のMMORPGとして総合的に見て、
リスクとリワードのバランス/プレイヤーの皆さんのライフワークバランスその双方にマッチしているのは、
「装備劣化くらいが妥当」と考えているのは、以前記載させて頂いたとおりです。
バトルによって、使い込まれた装備が劣化するのも、長時間のプレイの中での区切りや、
次なる装備入手への「ささやかな」モチベーション、そして、劣化があることにより、クラフターの能力が、
これも「ささやか」ですが表現できること、装備が劣化していくリアリティなど、
FFXIV全体を俯瞰してみて、劣化も修理も「あって良い」仕様であると考えています。
(クラフターは自前で修理できるので、デスペナルティになっていないよーというご指摘は、
それで良いと思っています。そのためにクラフトクラスのレベリング努力をして頂いたので、
その分の対価という意味で、十分に相殺されて良いはずです)

■ただし現在の修理には大きく問題がある■

ですが、修理のためにとても大きな労力をプレイヤーの皆さんに割かせてしまっているのが大問題です。
上記に記載した通り、劣化や修理の概念は、俯瞰してみると色々なシステム、モチベーション、
設定やデスペナルティに影響を与えてはいますが、各々は非常に「ささやか」な効果です。
その「ささやかな効果」を得るための対価と労力が、完全にかけ離れているのが問題と考えています。
バランスから考えれば、装備の修理はもっと「お手軽にできるべき」というのが結論になります。
(今更だろうと言われれば、返す言葉もないわけですが……)

■修理には二通りの方法がある■

FFXIVの修理には二通りの方法があります。ひとつは修理NPCによる修理。
もうひとつは、クラフターによる修理です。
ただし、いずれの方法にも、それぞれ異なる問題があり、その解決方法は、やはりそれぞれ異なります。
ですので、以下の具体的な修理に関する仕様変更やテコ入れは、
この二通りの方法に対して、個別に対応するものになっていますので、その点について、
前提としてご理解ください。もちろん、実装に際しては総合判断を行ってはいますが、
フォーラム上で仕様を確認して頂くとき、境界線をはっきりさせておかないと、
議論が脇道へそれてしまう可能性があるため、敢えてこういう書き方をさせて頂いています。

■パッチ1.19での修正(主にNPC修理に対しての修正)■

現状パッチ1.19の実装タスクはかなり厳しく、新規実装は殆ど不可能な状況です。
そのため、修理の改修はパッチ1.19と1.20以降の修正という複数段階を想定しています。
パッチ1.19での対応は主にNPC修理に対しての修正になります。
(微妙にクラフター修理にも関わる修正ではあります)

1.すべてのエーテライト/簡易施設に「修理NPC」と「アイテム販売NPC」が配置されます
2.NPCがアイテムを修理した際、その時点でいかなる耐久度だったとしても「99」まで回復します
3.クラフターによる修理のみが耐久度を100まで回復させます(現行仕様通り)
4.NPCの修理費用を大きく引き下げます
 (1アイテム当り装備アイテムのレベルに応じて100G/500G/1000G/2100G/5000G固定)
5.ダークマターの販売コストを引き下げます
 (G1/G2/G3/G4/G5 = 50G/300G/700G/1500G/3500G)
6.装備の劣化による性能低下の仕様を以下のように変更します
   耐久度100から1まで一切の性能低下無し
   耐久度0になると「破損」状態となり、装備が持つパラメータは0として扱う
   耐久度10以下になると耐久度限界が近いことを知らせるアイコンを表示(黄)
   耐久度0になると破損アイテムを身につけていることを知らせるアイコンを表示(赤)

ここまでが、パッチ1.19での修理関連の修正になります。いずれトピックスでもお知らせしますね。
簡潔に書くと、通常使用時の装備劣化は
「性能ダウンの境界線がはっきりし、中途半端な修理は必要なくなる(アイコンがウザくない)」
「NPCの修理価格は適正化され、手軽に修理可能になるものの耐久度は99までしか回復しない」
「マーケットに中古アイテムを出品する際には、クラフターの手による修理が必要になる」
「ダークマターの価格も引き下げられ、極端なギルコストを要求しなくなる」
ということになり、修理のためだけに、無理なクラフトクラスのレベリングをしなくても良くなります。

■パッチ1.20以降の修正(主にクラフター修理に対しての修正)■

1.20以降、クラフターの修理シーケンス(手順)そのものの仕様変更を計画しています。
(順次前倒し可能なら前倒ししていきます)
とにかく修理する側の手間が、非常に大きいのが問題点であり、
この根本的なフローに手を入れようと考えています。

1.修理の際に毎回コマンド実行、毎回アニメーション実行の流れを簡略化
2.修理される側がダークマターを用意可能にすることで、クラフターの手間を大幅に軽減
3.ダークマターG6(レベル50以上の装備専用)を追加しG5の仕様と価格を再度調整

これ以外にも修理依頼用のアイコンなどの視認性向上や、まとめ修理の簡略化などが、
修正候補に挙がっています。更に吉田としては「錬金/調理以外のクラフタークラス」は、
クラスに関わりなく、すべての装備を修理できて構わないのではないかと思っています。
装備する側は、各クラフトクラスが修理可能な装備を意識して集めているわけではないですし、
修理依頼が出ていても、修理できるパーツがクラフターによりマチマチなのは、
結果的に、修理する方にとっても、される方にとっても、大きな機会損失ではないかと考えているためです。
(錬金/調理の皆さんには、別の修正計画があります。でも、簡略化しすぎですかね……?
修理キットがあり、扱えるのはクラフターというのもありではありますが)
ここは現役クラフターの皆さんの御意見も、しっかり聞かせて頂きたいと考えているため、
パッチ1.19リリース後に、第三回プレイヤーズアンケートを実施させて頂く予定です^^

さて、時間がかかってしまった上、相変わらずの長文ですが、
以上、具体的な修理改修予定についてでした!
本来なら、もっと早くに対応すべき点だったと、改めて反省しています……。
これからも、皆さんのエマージェンシーにしっかり耳を傾けさせて頂き、バリバリ新規実装、
バリバリ調整を行っていきますので、引き続き、ご意見/フィードバック、宜しくお願いします!

P.S.
明日以降「装備推奨レベルの今後」と「マテリアクラフト全般」についてのポスト予定です。
24時間ほどお待ちください。


Edited, Sep 14th 2011 1:41pm by RamseySylph

Now with the official tanslation:

NaokiYoshida wrote:
Hello everyone, Producer/Director Yoshida here.

I appreciate the lively discussion that’s been taking place here.
Before I start, I’d like to apologize that my post is late as we were struggling through a dizzyingly busy week. While I was busy running around, you were busy creating a range of topics that even touched on the in-game economy! But today, I’ll be going back to basics. Let me start with our plans for the item repair system in 1.19 and from 1.20 onwards! (As for the in-game economy, we cannot really get into this subject at the moment until every single element of the system becomes “normal.” Otherwise there are too many aspects to talk about and it’ll end up too confusing to discuss)

Premise
Over the next few days I can promise you more posts after this one, and in the next producer’s letter I will let you know more of my thoughts about the fundamental direction where FFXIV and current generation MMORPGs should be heading. I hope you are looking forward to my new letter which will be out soon. However, due to our current situation and progress, the letter will be posted just before 1.19 is released. So in the meantime let me explain what 1.19 has to offer through videos which you have been requesting!

General policy about the repair system
When I consider the death penalty and FFXIV as a current generation MMORPG, which entails striking a balance between risk and reward and taking your lifestyle and work into account, the common link seems to be the “concept of equipment durability”. I mentioned it before and it’s still on my mind. Equipment worn in battles will lose their durability over time; this could be seen as a small milestone in your long journey. It will motivate you to get new equipment, crafters can demonstrate their repairing skills, and players can feel the reality of seeing their equipment age over time. So I believe we should keep degrading armor and repair systems as they are. (Some have pointed out that it’s not really a death penalty for crafters as they can fix their gear, though I don’t see any problem with that. Players can raise their crafting level with some serious grinding, so I think this balances out the death penalty)

Yet we have a massive problem with the current repair system
I know it has been a huge issue that we ask you to devote a tremendous amount of effort to repairs. As I mentioned above, the concept of equipment durability and degradation has an impact on various systems, player motivation, settings and the death penalty, for only minor rewards. Therefore, I understand there is a big problem with the imbalance between the amount of work needed and the stat increases that can be gained. In short, I concluded that repairs should become a lot easier, if I take balance into consideration (Although I wouldn’t be able to respond if you were to say it’s a long time coming)

There are two ways to repair items
We already implemented two different ways to repair items in the game: paying NPCs or disciples of the hand. However, both methods have their respective problems and the solutions are also different. Therefore, I’d like you to understand the tweaks and changes below which address each method. We will evaluate the system comprehensively when it comes to actually implementing changes. However I wanted to be clear about the features, as the discussion may go off track on the forum.

Adjustments in Patch 1.19 (Focusing on NPC Repair Adjustments)
Currently the goals we’ve set for ourselves for 1.19 are pretty extensive, and it won’t be possible to implement most of the new features in a single patch. Therefore it looks like there will be several stages of implementation over patch 1.19 and 1.20 to improve the repair system.
The updates in patch 1.19 will mainly focus on NPC repairs.
(In a way, I suppose the adjustments will involve crafter repairs)

1. There will be a “Repair NPC” and a “Merchant NPC” stationed at every Aetheryte/Settlement.
2. When an NPC repairs an item, the level of durability will be restored to 99% of the item’s condition.
3. Only crafters are able to restore an item’s durability to 100% (As per the design)
4. The price for NPC repairs will be greatly lowered.
(The price per item will be fixed at 100G/500G/1000G/2100G/5000G according to the level of the equipment)
5. The cost of Dark Matter will be lowered.
(G1/G2/G3/G4/G5 = 50G/300G/700G/1500G/3500G)
6. The decrease in condition based on equipment deterioration changes are as follows:
No decrease in status/attributes for durability levels between 100 and 1
If durability reaches 0, it will have a “Damaged” status, and the equipment attributes will be treated as 0
When durability is 10 or below, a yellow icon will appear which will indicate that it is nearing the durability limit
When durability is 0, a red icon will appear which will indicate a damaged item is equipped

So that’s the plan for repair adjustments for patch 1.19. I’ll be sure to keep you updated. To cut it short, equipment deterioration during normal use of items is:
The line for equipment's stat deterioration will be clear and there will be no more need for partial repairs (the icon won’t be annoying)
The pricing for NPC repairs will be reasonable, and it will be possible to have affordable repairs which will restore to durability 99%
When second-hand items go up on the market, repairs carried out by a crafter will be needed
The price of Dark Matter will be lowered, and it will not demand a large amount of gil
These things mean you won’t feel forced to level a crafting class in order to repair your own equipment.

Adjustments for Patch 1.20 Onwards (Focusing on Disciples of the Hand Repair Adjustments)
I’ve finalized the plans for changes to the crafter repair procedure for 1.20.
If there is a chance to speed up the process then we will. In any case, the huge amount of trouble repairers have to go through is a real problem, and I have thought about adopting this basic flow.
1. Perform a command every time when you repair, to cut out the animation which plays each time
2. If Dark Matter can be offered by the one who is getting their equipment repaired this will make work a lot easier for the crafter
3. Add Dark Matter G6 (Level 50+ exclusive equipment) and readjust the specifications and price of G5

Apart from this, making the repair request icon more visible and simplifying the ability to collectively repair equipment is in the works. Furthermore, I was thinking it would be ok if all Disciples of the Hand classes, aside from Alchemist/Culinarian, would be able to repair any equipment.

It doesn’t mean that each disciple of the hand class will be knowingly gathering up all the equipment that they are able to repair, and even if there is a repair request, the parts that can be repaired will differ depending on the crafter. So in the end there are huge losses at stake for both the repairer and the one seeking repairs.
(I have a different plan for Alchemists and Culinarians doing repairs. However, it might be over simplified…? There will be something like a repair kit which crafters can use. (It might be an idea to have something like a repair kit which only crafters can use)
As I really want to get feedback from all of the current crafters out there, I plan to launch a third survey after the release of patch 1.19. ^^

So, my time’s up and as always I have written a lot, however that is it for the repair improvements plans! Looking back on things again I feel I should have done something about this sooner…

From now on, when you are in an emergency let me hear what you have to say and we will work hard to release new contents and make adjustments. So please keep on telling us your opinions/feedback!


Edited, Sep 14th 2011 1:42pm by RamseySylph

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 1:46pm by RamseySylph
#2 Sep 14 2011 at 12:57 AM Rating: Good
Thanks for the information. I am definitely excited about this. I always believed that gear at 0% should give no stats. And being able to repair at NPCs to 99% for those set prices is great. No more waiting for G5 Leatherworker or Goldsmithing repair...
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#3 Sep 14 2011 at 2:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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The question is, how much can crafter take before there is no more point in being a crafter?

These changes will make crafter repair redundant, even with grade 5 there is only a difference of 1500 Gil between getting an item at 100% by a c
rafter or 99% by a NPC. Keeping in mind that the majority of the playerbase has millions I don't a plus to using a crafter unless u need to sell something.
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#4 Sep 14 2011 at 3:32 AM Rating: Good
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Hugus wrote:
The question is, how much can crafter take before there is no more point in being a crafter?

These changes will make crafter repair redundant, even with grade 5 there is only a difference of 1500 Gil between getting an item at 100% by a c
rafter or 99% by a NPC. Keeping in mind that the majority of the playerbase has millions I don't a plus to using a crafter unless u need to sell something.


If the game were flush with people, it wouldn't be an issue. But it's not, and it is, unfortunately.
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#5 Sep 14 2011 at 3:47 AM Rating: Good
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Yes, crafters are becoming more and more superfluous.

Come on, guys, the current trend is obvious: SE doesn't want the current long-term playerbase to have any significant advantage over the new players they are hoping to generate once the major patching is over. It may be a harsh truth for those who ground their way to several R50 crafts especially for that very reason (to have an "advantage" later on), but breaking that monopoly is a necessary step to make the game attractive for new players.

You still get materia crafting. And for a long time, the current players will have the financial power to out-bid any newcomer on the free market for hyper-HQ'd sellable gear; so there has to be alternatives. Which come as new NM-dropped Rare/Ex gear and new kinds of (non-Gil) token systems that equalize the difference between new and old players (since both groups have 0 tokens by the time a new type of token is introduced).

Smart move by SE, if you ask me. "Hardcore" grinders are allowed a small advantage; they will always be one step ahead. But never more than a step. And luckily, you will never again depend on the goodwill (or availability) of a crafter to just get your character going again.
#6 Sep 14 2011 at 5:23 AM Rating: Decent
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This isn't a survival-horror/action game; the durability system ought to be practically invisible. In Diablo II, repairs were something you did in passing while you were pawning your loot to Charsi. You get your repairs, a little cash is removed from the economy and you're soon back to slaughtering the forces of darkness or scamming people out of their equipment with cheap PvP exploits. It has been 11 years, jtom2020, but I will find you.

Anything that makes repairs less of a pain in the **** is golden.

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#7 Sep 14 2011 at 6:17 AM Rating: Good
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I for one am happy for this change, rings and other accessories will still need need a crafters unless the NPC fixes everything. I do not see this as a negative, the repair system should really be something on the side, not a main focus. What would be cool though is if armor at 100% gave you a small bonus, and dropped to base at 99%.
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#8 Sep 14 2011 at 6:23 AM Rating: Good
Hugus wrote:
The question is, how much can crafter take before there is no more point in being a crafter?

These changes will make crafter repair redundant, even with grade 5 there is only a difference of 1500 Gil between getting an item at 100% by a c
rafter or 99% by a NPC. Keeping in mind that the majority of the playerbase has millions I don't a plus to using a crafter unless u need to sell something.
I'll still give my gil to players, rather than the NPC. Right now, I either offer plenty of gil, or 2x the dark matter because it's the right thing to do.
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#9 Sep 14 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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..and I had just made up my mind last night to put some serious effort into Goldsmith, shucks.

I'm on the same page with the posters above who feel that this is just another slap in the face for crafters.
At the same time though, the current repair system has always driven me, with all my OCD's, insane. I hated feeling that if my gear fell below 60% I had to stop what I was doing and run back to Ul'duh to get everything repaired. (whether or not it had any real impact on the equipments stats)

I just hope this new materia system is enough to keep the crafters occupied and in business. Otherwise I fear people will just sell their broken gear to NPCs due to not being able to find anyone to repair it.. and that will cause havok in the market wards ; ;
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#10 Sep 14 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Decent
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More updates while I slept. It looks like nothing is being done as far as accessories immediately, the proposed plans are plan A, no more durability for them. Plan B, NPC can repair them.

As soon as 1.19 is released, they are planning to as quickly as possible implement plan B. Future plans are in the works, possibly a system where instead of durability, crafters can "Charge"(?) accessories granting them a little bonus?

NaokiYoshida wrote:
プロデューサ/ディレクタの吉田です。

すみません、アクセサリに関しての記載が抜けていました

■アクセサリの修理に関して(パッチ1.19リリース後に対応)■

A案.アクセサリの耐久度低下を廃止
B案.アクセサリの耐久度をNPCでも修理可能に

まずB案で行く場合には1.19リリース後にできるだけ早く対応予定です。
A案の方はまだ慎重に検討中です。
いずれリキャストタイマーが存在するアビリティをアクセサリにチャージする、
というような仕様も検討しているので、バランスをもう少し考えたいと思っています。
(リチャージ費用がかかるようにして、耐久度は撤廃でもいいかなとは思ってるのですが)

A案実装の場合は劣化の部位確率振り分けを調整する必要がありますので、
少しお時間を頂くことになりそうです。

■クラフタークラスによる修理可能装備の分類■

ひとつ前のポストにも書いてありますが、改めて。
錬金/調理以外のクラフトスキルで、すべての装備アイテムを修理可能に、
というのは決定仕様ではありません。

当然リアリティの問題や、クラフターアイデンティティはちゃんと考えていますが、
それに囚われすぎて「ストレス」になっては意味がない、と思っているのです。
ただ、このレベルになると「好きか嫌いか、アリか無しか」くらい、
好みが分かれてしまう部分と思います。
ですので、この仕様については、しっかり皆さんのご意見をうかがって、
最終仕様に落とそうと思っています。
(そのためのアンケート実施でもあります)
#11 Sep 14 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Full time crafter here, love gettin that shaft straight from SE.
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#12 Sep 14 2011 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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I craft and this is welcome, for one i can always keep my crafting armor fixed, as well as have my DoW/M armor fixed. I have 5 classes that need to have armor repaired, with this i can actually play more, with out the need to dedicate 3h's to shout "Repair can i have it".

As well SE is implementing changes the community wants, meaning if this is going in to affect more than a single complaint was send.
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#13 Sep 14 2011 at 8:18 AM Rating: Good
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I enjoy crafting quite a bit, I hope crafting still gets all the support it was promised by the original development team.

The fact remains that the repair system was broken. Assuming that this is merely an interim repair as the letter says, they still have the opportunity to greatly improve the system for crafters in 1.2 and beyond.

Other posters have already mentioned this, but the repair system needs to be transparent, simple, and the player should not be overly aware of its existence. It's a barrier to play. Preventing your player from playing the content they're interested in is, frankly, stupid.

The proper thing to do is not to punish players for not going to NPCs for repairs, but instead, reward players for going to other players for repairs. An above poster mentioned the idea of 100% giving players a bonus. I'd go a step further, as a 1% bonus would be gone rather quickly.

Instead, when a player repairs a piece of gear, give that piece of gear a temporary enhancement that lasts for a set amount of time, something minor, but noticeable. It becomes something that's not necessary, but nice to have. In this way, it gives crafters, or players with crafter friends a small bonus, and it also makes crafters in demand for end game players, who want all the best bonuses and don't care about cash.

Repair kits would be rather lovely as well, so that non-crafters could repair their gear outside of town.

What I still don't understand is why they made a new item "Dark Matter" to repair equipment, why not just let us use shards and crystals to do repairs? Crafters already carry them in abundance, and adventurers usually have them in abundance as well. They're an easy item to track the price of, and they're something all crafters want, often even more than they want gil. I am sure that most crafters would be more than willing to take a double payment of shards and crystals, and if repairs required them, it might actually occur to adventurers to pay in shards/crystals.

Validai wrote:
Otherwise I fear people will just sell their broken gear to NPCs due to not being able to find anyone to repair it.. and that will cause havok in the market wards ; ;


??? If anything, I'd actually appreciate people vendoring more gear, it'd drive demand up. That's the entire point of the materia system. There's too much gear in circulation, and it needs to get the **** out if gear is ever going to be worth gil again.




Edited, Sep 14th 2011 7:19am by RamseySylph
#14 Sep 14 2011 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I craft and this is welcome, for one i can always keep my crafting armor fixed, as well as have my DoW/M armor fixed. I have 5 classes that need to have armor repaired, with this i can actually play more, with out the need to dedicate 3h's to shout "Repair can i have it".


If you are actually interested in crafting and pay atention to information released by SE you would know that with the exception of tools there is nothing equipable by crafters or gatherers) that ever needs to be repaired.

As things stand the only stats that get reduced from wear and tear are stats like defence, mag defense, evasion and such, no point for crafters and gatherers to worry about it.
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#15 Sep 14 2011 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
Hugus wrote:
Quote:
I craft and this is welcome, for one i can always keep my crafting armor fixed, as well as have my DoW/M armor fixed. I have 5 classes that need to have armor repaired, with this i can actually play more, with out the need to dedicate 3h's to shout "Repair can i have it".


If you are actually interested in crafting and pay atention to information released by SE you would know that with the exception of tools there is nothing equipable by crafters or gatherers) that ever needs to be repaired.

As things stand the only stats that get reduced from wear and tear are stats like defence, mag defense, evasion and such, no point for crafters and gatherers to worry about it.


If I didn't repair my gear, people constantly poking me would kill me, and then I would be dead and needing a raise instead of repairs.

Smiley: grin
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#16 Sep 14 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Good
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I spend a good amount of time crafting and I like this change. Being able to repair items was a nice perk but it wasn't as if crafters were getting rich/wealthy because they could repair stuff. Being able to lend a hand for repairs or help out friends/LS with repairs is cool and that will still be there. The profits from making repairs were always pretty minimal compared to other ways you can make money as a crafter.

I think this will actually help crafters in the long run. Up til this point, a lot of people felt they almost "had" to craft so they could repair their own stuff. I think there's quite a few people playing the game who are leveling crafts mainly because of the repair system, and not because they are actually interested in crafting. These changes will make it so that people who don't want to craft can ignore this aspect of the game without too many inconveniences anymore. This will also be the case for new players coming in the future as well (i.e. PS3 release). If you don't want to craft, you don't have to and your gameplay experience won't be negatively impacted by the repair system the way it was back when this game was first released.

The end result is that the balance of the number of crafters to non-crafters in this game will become more "normal" for a MMORPG, and may be this game can finally start to shake the stigma of being Final "Craftasy". Prices for items/gear will start to make more sense, especially when added with the gear-stat fixes that are upcoming as well.
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#17 Sep 14 2011 at 9:41 AM Rating: Decent
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I am for this change. If I averaged out all of the repairs that i've done over the course of the game, i'm sure it'd be a big, fat loss for me. The ****-poor SP gains certainly don't compensate for my time and gil spent performing the repairs. While repairs are a two-fold system, gil sink and appropriate-level equipment, it's still a PITA more often than not.

Yay for the reduced prices on matter as well. With three to four sets of gear to tromp around in, Grade 4/5 costs add up quickly.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 8:43am by Dallie
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#18 Sep 14 2011 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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I level my craft partly so I can self-repair (which I will still be able to do post these changes -- it'll save me a few coins and I can do it anywhere in the field, not just at the camps and cities), but also because I actually like crafting, and love trying to HQ my own stuff.

This change essentially made me rearrange the order at which I'll level crafts (there's now more value in a craft at 50 than all craft at 40), but at the end of the day, it won't make me stop crafting.

I _am_ glad that new players, like most of us did when we joined XI, won't have the oppressing feeling that they HAVE to craft to progress.

Let's see the list of edges that crafting used to give and no longer does:
-Crafting had their own 8 leves per reset, which meant more gil
-Crafting gave physical XP, which helped a ton if you were Physical 50 instead of Physical 35 like DoW exclusive players
-Crafting allowed faster, better, cheaper and more convenient repairs.

Now that crafting and combat classes share leves, you no longer HAVE to use any on locals,
Now that physical XP is gone, anyone with a rank50 has the same stats total, no longer an edge for those who leveled lots of classes instead of focusing on one,
Now that repairs will be very cheap, virtually as good and avaible at every Aetheryte camp and settlement, people won't have to carry multiple copies of their gear or hunt for crafters for repairs.

Overall, it feels more like a game, and less like a job to me. That's a plus in my book. Even if I did like all the advantages I had over others for over a year, I'll be able to live without them.
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#19 Sep 14 2011 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Edited the OP with official translation that just came out, also added a note that I missed the first time, or rather, I forgot to mention...

There will be a “Repair NPC” and a “Merchant NPC” stationed at every Aetheryte/Settlement.

Being a crafter myself, I could care less about the repair NPC, it's definitely a good addition though. BUT HOLY FRICKIN CRAP FINALLY I CAN VENDOR STUFF WITHOUT GOING BACK TO THE CITY YESSSS!

Also, the translation of the bit about accessories, I'll add it here:

NaokiYoshida wrote:
Hello, this is Yoshida, the Producer/Director.

I'm sorry, I forgot to post information regarding accessories.

Repairing accessories (Post patch 1.19)
Plan A: Stop loss of durability of accessories.
Plan B: Allow NPCs to repair accessories.

If we choose Plan B, we will look into implementation as soon as possible after patch 1.19.
We are still in the process of carefully reviewing Plan A.
We are also looking into a system that would charge abilities with recast timers in conjunction with accessories, so I'd like to take a bit more time to think about the balance for this. (I think it would be nice to get rid of durability and implement a recharge cost)

Due to the adjustments necessary, Plan A would require more time than Plan B.

Classification of gear that can be repaired by Disciples of the Hand
I mentioned this in my previous post, but we have not fully decided to allow repairs of all gear by all crafting classes (other than alchemy and cooking).

Of course we are taking into account issues of story and crafter identity, but we don’t think that this should cause any stress. We believe that at this level, players will have their preferences, which is why we are conducting a survey in order to factor in the players’ opinions in our final decision.


Personally I will vote no on the idea of a crafter being able to repair anything. With the other changes coming, it will already be very easy to repair items we can't repair ourselves, it's only a tiny walk to any given camp, and very cheap. Repair kits are fine, but an armorer with no other craft leveled repairing a silk robe doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 1:52pm by RamseySylph
#20 Sep 14 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
RamseySylph wrote:
Edited the OP with official translation that just came out, also added a note that I missed the first time, or rather, I forgot to mention...

There will be a “Repair NPC” and a “Merchant NPC” stationed at every Aetheryte/Settlement.

Being a crafter myself, I could care less about the repair NPC, it's definitely a good addition though. BUT HOLY FRICKIN CRAP FINALLY I CAN VENDOR STUFF WITHOUT GOING BACK TO THE CITY YESSSS!

Also, the translation of the bit about accessories, I'll add it here:

NaokiYoshida wrote:
Hello, this is Yoshida, the Producer/Director.

I'm sorry, I forgot to post information regarding accessories.

Repairing accessories (Post patch 1.19)
Plan A: Stop loss of durability of accessories.
Plan B: Allow NPCs to repair accessories.

If we choose Plan B, we will look into implementation as soon as possible after patch 1.19.
We are still in the process of carefully reviewing Plan A.
We are also looking into a system that would charge abilities with recast timers in conjunction with accessories, so I'd like to take a bit more time to think about the balance for this. (I think it would be nice to get rid of durability and implement a recharge cost)

Due to the adjustments necessary, Plan A would require more time than Plan B.

Classification of gear that can be repaired by Disciples of the Hand
I mentioned this in my previous post, but we have not fully decided to allow repairs of all gear by all crafting classes (other than alchemy and cooking).

Of course we are taking into account issues of story and crafter identity, but we don’t think that this should cause any stress. We believe that at this level, players will have their preferences, which is why we are conducting a survey in order to factor in the players’ opinions in our final decision.


Personally I will vote no on the idea of a crafter being able to repair anything. With the other changes coming, it will already be very easy to repair items we can't repair ourselves, it's only a tiny walk to any given camp, and very cheap. Repair kits are fine, but an armorer with no other craft leveled repairing a silk robe doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Edited, Sep 14th 2011 1:52pm by RamseySylph

The giant text almost exploded my head. :O

I am happy to hear this though.
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#21 Sep 14 2011 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry, it's just such exciting news. If Yoshi-P had called me up on the phone and asked if I wanted to be the only player in the world the spell "Ultima" was made available to, or if I'd rather have vendors in Aetheryte camps, I'd have chosen the vendors. Nothing ruins my day like 100/100 inventory and having to throw crap out.
#22 Sep 14 2011 at 3:23 PM Rating: Excellent
I would take Ultima.
#23 Sep 14 2011 at 5:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd take the vendors as well :P
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#24 Sep 14 2011 at 5:12 PM Rating: Good
I'd take Ultima. Then I will just threaten to destroy the world unless a vendor agrees to follow me around. Smiley: grin
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#25 Sep 14 2011 at 7:31 PM Rating: Decent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I'd take Ultima. Then I will just threaten to destroy the world unless a vendor agrees to follow me around. Smiley: grin


Et tu State, et tu? /starryeyed
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#26 Sep 15 2011 at 3:38 AM Rating: Good
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It seems to me that most people are not realising that by "simplifying" repair, crafting, gathering SE is just making DoH and DoL turn into skills like FFXI or any other game.

I see these changes as something alike to making people entering Darkhold unable to fight trash mobs and being transported straight to Deepvoid slave's room. This would also simplyfy the event/dungeon, make it easier and most people would be happy with it but I don't see it happening because this is DoW/M content, mainstream MOO activity. On the other hand this would defeat the supposed purpose of the Dungeon as a grind place and prevent people frm getting one of the chests.

If people intend to have as much population as possible they need to remember that there were 3 main draws into this, Final Fantasy fans, fans of high quality picture and people which were drawn in because of the "revolutionary" crafters as classes.

By not supporting this side of the game I think SE could simply be sending some of it's current player base to other games like the DGX orothers.

Idea didnt come out the way I though about it, edits in Italic to reflect the original idea

Edited, Sep 15th 2011 10:03am by Hugus
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#27 Sep 15 2011 at 3:59 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
which were drawn in because of the "revolutionary" crafters as classes.

That idea died a long time ago. Sometime around February. Luckily, because fighting Ifrit by feeding him salads and shrimps or defeating him in a multicolor version of tic-tac-toe until he explodes is both ridiculous and a waste of developer resources...

...is my opinion, and nothing more. You are entitled to yours; but if the implementation of your features draws considerable resources from the implementation of my features and waters them down just to appease your playstyle, well, I will vote against you.
#28 Sep 15 2011 at 4:12 AM Rating: Good
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By being classes it doesnt mean that they will be able to fight (although that was something that did interest me) and your point is as valid as saying that any buffing, enfleebling class shouldnt be able to fight like Bard, Corsair, Dancer...

What I was actually refering to was the idea of crafters as classes, with proper interaction with the otherall world, with specific targets which could be directed at them as classes. Specific content to crafters could be a series on quests which actually required the hunt/purchase of specific mats which enabled them to create rare/legendary items/gear which you couldnt otherwise craft.

Recepies which can only be used after completing certain quests is the simplest thing to put in game I would think, make those crafting parties which even Yoshi mentioned when he first got in charge of FFXIV, just add content to crafting, not make it simple and acomodating.
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#29 Sep 15 2011 at 6:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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This game is going nowhere fast if they're taking all this time just to toss in some new NPCs and tweak some algorithms and values. Crafting will still have all the depth of an early-game JRPG battle. They're making the classic mistake of assuming that there's a fun game at the core of FFXIV after they make certain things less of a hassle, but unfortunately the criterion for fun encompasses more than just "not being a nuisance." The biggest problem with crafting is that it is boring as ****.

Quote:
That idea died a long time ago. Sometime around February. Luckily, because fighting Ifrit by feeding him salads and shrimps or defeating him in a multicolor version of tic-tac-toe until he explodes is both ridiculous and a waste of developer resources...


Obviously culinarians would play more of a support role, perhaps to include occasionally throwing boiling water or whacking with a hot frying pan, etc.
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#30 Sep 15 2011 at 6:50 AM Rating: Decent
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This game is going nowhere fast if they're taking all this time just to toss in some new NPCs and tweak some algorithms and values


Assuming that you play the game and from your statement I think I'm assuming too much you would have seen that the updates till now cannot be sumarized as mearly tossing some NPCs and tweak algorithms so maybe you just are missinformed about the ammount of stuff that is comming on 1.19 ... take at a loo at it:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/20998?p=292495#post292495
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#31 Sep 15 2011 at 6:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm aware of the planned and implemented game changes, and as such, no, of course I don't play the game. I wish I could still say that I'm anxiously awaiting the day that I can play the game but I've gotten on with my life.

My comment was directed towards the progress of the crafting system. Obviously there are other things going on, but the fixes Yoshida is talking about are lazy and would take other developers all of a week. There is no effort to address the fundamental weaknesses of the system, and as a result the changes will ultimately do nothing to attract players to the game. Cumulatively, "adjustments" like these will only delay the sinking of this ship, which SE is actually paying money to drag out.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#32 Sep 15 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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Hugus wrote:
Quote:
This game is going nowhere fast if they're taking all this time just to toss in some new NPCs and tweak some algorithms and values


Assuming that you play the game and from your statement I think I'm assuming too much you would have seen that the updates till now cannot be sumarized as mearly tossing some NPCs and tweak algorithms so maybe you just are missinformed about the ammount of stuff that is comming on 1.19 ... take at a loo at it:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/20998?p=292495#post292495


While his statement may be hyperbolic, the updates up until now do not reflect a full scale development team crunching on and off for almost a year. They are obviously holding out on some large amount of content, that will hopefully hit sometime soon. (I would hope.)

Normally I'd ***** and moan just as much about crafting classes, I want to play a crafting class focused character as well, and I still will, I wouldn't say these are the changes to identify as something that kills crafters though. If anything, the synthesis changes coming in 1.19 do that much, much more than this. Let's wait and see before we declare crafting dead.

The repair changes are needed, plain and simple. It's tedious and off putting in its current iteration. I will reserve my judgment until the forthcoming changes to crafter repairs happen in 1.2 and up, but I believe the changes to repairs in 1.19 are definitely something that is needed.
#33 Sep 15 2011 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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RamseySylph wrote:
While his statement may be hyperbolic, the updates up until now do not reflect a full scale development team crunching on and off for almost a year. They are obviously holding out on some large amount of content


Or they're just not working very hard; or they are working hard, but are incompetent/unable to advance at a sufficient pace; or there only just a few people still working on the project at all. All of these scenarios are just as possible as SE sitting on a huge mountain of awesome, yet-unreleased content.

I can only wish that you're right, but I do have to point out the similarities such a hopeful argument shares with the hopeful arguments of the pre-release days. Over a year ago, too, SE was supposedly sitting on their "release-ready build," the one had been the product of all those years of development, that would swoop down a few weeks later to fix everything. Well, we saw how that worked out.

The fact is that we have all seen SE work for years and produce next-to-nothing. Is it not possible that, in the span now of just one year, their results fail to impress?
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#34 Sep 15 2011 at 7:57 PM Rating: Decent
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KaneKitty wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:
While his statement may be hyperbolic, the updates up until now do not reflect a full scale development team crunching on and off for almost a year. They are obviously holding out on some large amount of content


Or they're just not working very hard; or they are working hard, but are incompetent/unable to advance at a sufficient pace; or there only just a few people still working on the project at all. All of these scenarios are just as possible as SE sitting on a huge mountain of awesome, yet-unreleased content.

I can only wish that you're right, but I do have to point out the similarities such a hopeful argument shares with the hopeful arguments of the pre-release days. Over a year ago, too, SE was supposedly sitting on their "release-ready build," the one had been the product of all those years of development, that would swoop down a few weeks later to fix everything. Well, we saw how that worked out.

The fact is that we have all seen SE work for years and produce next-to-nothing. Is it not possible that, in the span now of just one year, their results fail to impress?


If you think they're not working very hard, you understand nothing about the industry in which they work, or the Japanese work ethic. And I don't mean to say that the Japanese are better or more hard-working, but their management certainly expect their employees to be. Crunch is already bad enough in the industry outside of Japan, inside of Japan it's even worse, it would surprise me if they've worked the hours listed on their job description for more than a few days in the entirety of the last year.

Incompetence doesn't explain a lack of content, it could explain a lack of good content, certainly. And even SE is not stupid enough to have gotten rid of the vast majority of the team if they hope to ever recoup their losses, it's just bad business. Also, the link to the article about their new hiring round discusses how they have done some shuffling but almost no if not absolutely no firings.

That said, there absolutely is a stockpile of at least partially finished content in the form of zones, armor and weapon models, the job system, etc. How far along those things are and when we will actually see them, and more importantly, the quality of the content remains to be seen. I am hopeful though, not blindly hopeful.
#35 Sep 15 2011 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Only problem I found with the current system was a lack of a central area designated for repairs only where those with DoH classes can find people that need repairs easily.

The menders ward would have worked just fine had they allowed only people seeking repairs to post a retainer up instead of the cluster **** of that it currently is.

I bet repairs would come faster this way. I mean think about how many people have a DoH class or classes leveled? I can see people camping in the menders ward seeking to make some quick Gil.

Make the menders ward repairs only and place an NPC that sells darkmatter in there as well. Everything would be a hellva lot better than it currently is and would still allow people to make Gil off repairs instead of completely ruining that Gil making avenue.

I'd rather leave this part of the economy in the players hands than have it simply be a Gil sink and that's exactly what it'll be because no one will want repairs from crafters when they can get it from NPCs.
#36 Sep 15 2011 at 11:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Ideally I'd rather they avoid the wards, and there be some common gathering place for players like the grand company halls, or some base in the field. They originally had the idea that local leves would bring crafters out to camps and get them to be there for a while and provide repairs, but that just isn't the case for various reasons.

If some sort of large campaign style system is initiated down the road, and crafters have specific tasks to craft in specific areas, and that area serves as a hub for combat classes to pick up missions etc, that would be perfect. It has to be one contained area where crafters and combat classes are constantly running by eachother. Unlike town it would be a more focused area that players pass through between bits of content, instead of merely gathering before and after.
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