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Details on Materia CraftFollow

#52 Sep 19 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Default
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RamseySylph wrote:

First of all, it IS a calculated risk, it TELLS you the % chance of working. Hence CALCULATED.

Whether or not we have to do it NOT relevant to whether it's calculated or not.

Also, they explicitly stated content will be balanced around non-socketed or single-socketed gear. It's not something you must do to keep up. The different is a marginal increase in performance.

If you go by that definition, everything you do in the game is a calculated risk.

They explicitly stated that content will be balanced around single-socketed gear, yes. The problem here is that this is an MMO and character strength will be gauged by comparing to other characters, not to whatever arbitrary gear recommendations SE sets for their encounters.

Therefore forbidden materia crafting will unlikely be a fringe activity for the wealthy. It is much more likely that it will be expected of you. Also, you should be wanting those 5-materia items because they're better. Settling for anything less is accepting mediocrity from yourself, which I think is an awful mindset to have.

Edited, Sep 19th 2011 10:07am by Omena
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#53 Sep 19 2011 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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Omena wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:

First of all, it IS a calculated risk, it TELLS you the % chance of working. Hence CALCULATED.

Whether or not we have to do it NOT relevant to whether it's calculated or not.

Also, they explicitly stated content will be balanced around non-socketed or single-socketed gear. It's not something you must do to keep up. The different is a marginal increase in performance.

If you go by that definition, everything you do in the game is a calculated risk.

They explicitly stated that content will be balanced around single-socketed gear, yes. The problem here is that this is an MMO and character strength will be gauged by comparing to other characters, not to whatever arbitrary gear recommendations SE sets for their encounters.

Therefore forbidden materia crafting will unlikely be a fringe activity for the wealthy. It is much more likely that it will be expected of you. Also, you should be wanting those 5-materia items because they're better. Settling for anything less is accepting mediocrity from yourself, which I think is an awful mindset to have.

Edited, Sep 19th 2011 10:07am by Omena


Really? There's some other activity in FFXIV that states your exact chances of success ahead of time? I must not play this game much...

Seems like either you're afraid this game will turn into a game where characters are excluded from content because their gear is marginally worse than another player's. That or you are afraid you will have to work very hard to have a bigger e-peen than someone who does forbidden materia crafting.

To answer the first concern (legitimate) I really don't have any fears about them implementing an item level system or something, that will turn this game into WoW, where people basically decide who to invite based on item level, which is not usually indicative of anything helpful. I realize this game is NOT FFXI, but it's more similar to XI than any other MMO, and I was never excluded from content in FFXI even in PUGs and even if I did not have the best gear. As long as your gear isn't ludicrously horrible, you shouldn't have a problem. Having fully socketed 3/3 gear is not going to be something that everyone simply expects out of you.

That's my bet anyways, we can come back to this discussion in a year and see but I would bet you massive amounts of gil. If it's anything to do with your e-peen, then I really don't care, and it's your own problem. If e-peen is a concern, then you should be prepared to have to do a lot of work to maintain it.

When we consider that RARE/EX gear cannot even be socketed yet, and we don't know if they will allow that, basically materia exists to make crafted gear better, or on par with rare/ex gear, so technically, to be "The best" materia probably won't even be necessary most of the time.
#54 Sep 19 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm happy that I spent all that time hunting NMs to then be told it was a waste of time. Now I have to replace all my NM gear with crafted gear. I know this was bound to happen as in any mmo but that usually comes with a level increase or other Ra/EX gear outclassing it.

Crafter's greed is already at insane levels (just browse the prices on the wards) and now the game increases demand ten-fold without doing anything to increase supply or reduce inflation.

How is a new player supposed to play in this environment? There are no gil sinks to reduce the current wealth of players, but gil rewards were drastically reduced.
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#55 Sep 19 2011 at 2:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Louiscool wrote:
I'm happy that I spent all that time hunting NMs to then be told it was a waste of time. Now I have to replace all my NM gear with crafted gear. I know this was bound to happen as in any mmo but that usually comes with a level increase or other Ra/EX gear outclassing it.

Crafter's greed is already at insane levels (just browse the prices on the wards) and now the game increases demand ten-fold without doing anything to increase supply or reduce inflation.

How is a new player supposed to play in this environment? There are no gil sinks to reduce the current wealth of players, but gil rewards were drastically reduced.

This isn't the first time it came up -- You hate us crafters so, what did we do to you, stole your lunch money and then forced you to buy our gear?

I'm just HOPING that all you doomsayers end up realizing that socketing materia is a waste of gil and time, and that in the end, NM drops is still the way to go. This way, I might be able to socket materia in my crafted gear, make it match my palette and wear stuff that I made. Because when I play a crafter in an MMO, it's not to mass-produce gear that I can't sell even at break-even price or profit, it's because I like to outfit myself.

If we're lucky, we will both be able to play the same game and cohabit, and you won't ever have to buy our junk to feel superior and free of our cold, evil, iron fist.
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#56 Sep 19 2011 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
Louiscool wrote:
I'm happy that I spent all that time hunting NMs to then be told it was a waste of time.


Louis, this isn't entirely the case. Remember only the first attachment of Materia is guaranteed, and nothing says that even with multiple attachments, that a Materia item will necessarily be better then a NM drop.

The risk factor will come into effect at some point and then it will be a choice of "Do I go with this item I got from an NM with pretty good stats for free? Or do I invest a lot of Gil/Time and chance breaking a lot of equipment trying to make an item that is a lot( or only marginally) better?"

For any elitist, I can see this being an issue. But I think of it this way. As the game progresses, new gear will replace old gear. To stay current you have to put up with the most BS. That's just part of the territory.

The main reason I go after an NM drop is either for Gil, or because the item I get is the best available, or good enough that it will save me the trouble of buying something or crafting an alternative.

Anyways, I guess what I am trying to say is, the Materia system offers something for everyone. To those who don't wanna spend time hunting NMs they can get some buffs on their regular equipment. For the ones who don't wanna spend a lot of Gil, one materia will do. For those who are daring, or have money to burn, they can go a lot farther. And it furthers the ability to fine tune your character.
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#57 Sep 19 2011 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah **** SE adding something that might make crafted gear worthwhile, or even marginally competitive with NM drop/raid gear. Why should crafters be able to make gear that's useful!? That's just stupid!
#58 Sep 19 2011 at 3:42 PM Rating: Good
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RamseySylph wrote:
Yeah @#%^ SE adding something that might make crafted gear worthwhile, or even marginally competitive with NM drop/raid gear. Why should crafters be able to make gear that's useful!? That's just stupid!

I'm going to quote Rams here just so everyone remember to turn on their sarcasm detectors.
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#59 Sep 19 2011 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Louiscool wrote:
I'm happy that I spent all that time hunting NMs to then be told it was a waste of time. Now I have to replace all my NM gear with crafted gear. I know this was bound to happen as in any mmo but that usually comes with a level increase or other Ra/EX gear outclassing it.

Crafter's greed is already at insane levels (just browse the prices on the wards) and now the game increases demand ten-fold without doing anything to increase supply or reduce inflation.

How is a new player supposed to play in this environment? There are no gil sinks to reduce the current wealth of players, but gil rewards were drastically reduced.


I disagree with your general doomsaying, but I agree with you in terms of new players being able to afford to gear up. It's tough. I started a new character to test and either the lower leveled things just don't exist or people are asking 20K for something that costs 500 gil to make.
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#60 Sep 20 2011 at 6:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not going doom and gloom, I'm just dissapointed that they are introducing the materia system half completed. Yoshi-P states that eventually you'll be able to socket Ra/ex nm drops but just not now.



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#61 Sep 20 2011 at 8:33 AM Rating: Decent
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RamseySylph wrote:

Really? There's some other activity in FFXIV that states your exact chances of success ahead of time? I must not play this game much...

No, you don't have the exact percentage but there is always a RNG involved and the same goes for forbidden materia crafting. It's entirely luck based even if you can see your odds.

Quote:

Seems like either you're afraid this game will turn into a game where characters are excluded from content because their gear is marginally worse than another player's. That or you are afraid you will have to work very hard to have a bigger e-peen than someone who does forbidden materia crafting.

I'm worried that I'll be left in the dust if I don't either buy gil or belong to an LS with an iron grip on certain items. I do want to have the best possible stuff. Call it what you want, but I call it responsibility. People who only thought about themselves in FFXI would show up to groups in the most amazingly horrible gear ever because they knew the other players would help carry their sorry asses. I think that kind of behaviour is despicable and I made sure I always had the gear anyone would expect me to have, as well as the skills to back it up.

Quote:

When we consider that RARE/EX gear cannot even be socketed yet, and we don't know if they will allow that, basically materia exists to make crafted gear better, or on par with rare/ex gear, so technically, to be "The best" materia probably won't even be necessary most of the time.

IIRC some dev post suggested that if you manage to stick enough materia into your crafted gear, it will surpass NM drops.

RamseySylph wrote:
Yeah @#%^ SE adding something that might make crafted gear worthwhile, or even marginally competitive with NM drop/raid gear. Why should crafters be able to make gear that's useful!? That's just stupid!

Crafted gear that's better to or equal to NM gear should require mats that drop from NMs. The best gear should be a reward for beating tough content, not for having the deepest pockets. This is why nobody in WoW cares that the economy actually has a rather minor role.
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#62 Sep 20 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
Omena wrote:
The best gear should be a reward for beating tough content, not for having the deepest pockets.

Just so you know it takes more time to level one craft to level 50 then it does to level one DoW/M class to 50 AND collect all desired NM drops combined. For someone who doesn't fight stuff very much, why should I be excluded from potentially excellent gear?

And as far as deep pockets goes, it sounds like you are complaining that you don't have a lot of Gil, and the fact that I labored to be able to make a lot of Gil by crafting, in lieu of fighting, should somehow be ignored.

I wrote:
Just so you know it takes more time to level one craft to level 50 then it does to level one DoW/M class to 50 AND collect all desired NM drops combined.

I quoted myself for a reason, because I know someone will try to refute this. Starting a new character, you have to farm everything. Which means you have to spend a lot of time not leveling your craft in order to level your craft. However any combat class can immediately go out and kill stuff non stop all the way to 50 and then proceed directly to getting NM drops.

You say the best gear should come from tough content. I say the best gear should come as a result of investing the most time into the game.

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 11:15am by StateAlchemist
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#63 Sep 20 2011 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/21071-Materia-%21?p=345791&viewfull=1#post345791
Sasunaich, Community Rep wrote:
Ich habe mit den Entwicklern gesprochen und folgende Infos für euch herausgekitzelt: pro Gegenstand könnt ihr bis zu 5 Materia hinzufügen. Mit Materia modifizierte Ausrüstungsgegenstände können in bis zu 7 Slots ausgestattet werden. Aber letzteres wisst ihr ja schon.

Allerdings haben sie mich auch wissen lassen, dass das noch nicht in Stein gemeißelt ist, die Anzahl kann sich noch ändern.


Rough translation:
Google Translate wrote:
I have spoken with the developers and the following information teased out for you, can you up to 5 per subject materials to add. Materia with modified equipment can be fitted in up to 7 slots. But the latter you know that already.

However, they have also let me know that that's not set in stone, the number can still change.
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#64 Sep 20 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Good
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Omena wrote:

No, you don't have the exact percentage but there is always a RNG involved and the same goes for forbidden materia crafting. It's entirely luck based even if you can see your odds.


And? My entire point was the risk you are taking is calculated, if you still don't understand what I'm saying, they make things for that, they're called dictionaries.

Omena wrote:

I'm worried that I'll be left in the dust if I don't either buy gil or belong to an LS with an iron grip on certain items. I do want to have the best possible stuff. Call it what you want, but I call it responsibility. People who only thought about themselves in FFXI would show up to groups in the most amazingly horrible gear ever because they knew the other players would help carry their sorry asses. I think that kind of behaviour is despicable and I made sure I always had the gear anyone would expect me to have, as well as the skills to back it up.


Right. Because when I said I wasn't excluded from events for not having the absolute best gear, I meant I was showing up as a 75 Red Mage wearing a Wool Robe and wielding a Bee Spatha.

Look.

If you have a burning desire to have the absolute best gear, in every single slot, and feel like if someone doesn't conform to those exact standards, they're a worthless and despicable player, you're just a huge *******. There's no other alternative. Let's assume for a moment though, that you didn't mean what you insinuated...

Even if this was the way to get the absolute best gear, the amount a few materia will make is again, a marginal, increase, so having an item socketed with less materia, or an R/EX item is going to be roughly the same, if not better in the case of the R/EX item.

Also, unless they suddenly add in 24 hour repop HNMs, there's really no way for anyone to get an iron grip on any kind of item... So, why are you worrying over something that isn't even possible given our current systems?

ALSO, and this one is REALLY IMPORTANT. If there WAS a way to get an iron grip on a material, GUESS WHAT. If that material was instead, I don't know, a piece of R/EX gear, guess what!? YOU WOULD NEVER GET IT. Unless you paid the people who were camping the HNM to let you have it....

How the **** is that different from having to pay a large price for an item that was made for you?

Omena wrote:

IIRC some dev post suggested that if you manage to stick enough materia into your crafted gear, it will surpass NM drops.


I am sure there will be cases where this is true, and where it is false. Why is it a problem? Honestly, answer that question.

Omena wrote:

Crafted gear that's better to or equal to NM gear should require mats that drop from NMs.


Who says?

Omena wrote:

The best gear should be a reward for beating tough content, not for having the deepest pockets.


Why?

Omena wrote:

This is why nobody in WoW cares that the economy actually has a rather minor role.


Because what's right for WoW is always right for everyone.


What makes rare materials that you as a combat class obtain automatically more valuable than rare items that gatherers obtain, or high quality, rare materials that crafters create? Nothing. A false sense of entitlement based on apparently, your experiences playing World of Warcraft. (Please do not derail this thread /crosses fingers.)

Their economy works for them, but that does not mean it will work for this game. In fact, it would never, ever, in a million years work for a game where crafting and gathering are taken even remotely seriously.

You can put in hard work to get a rare piece of gear from doing combat related activities, or you can put in the hard work as a crafter to make high quality gear, something that takes a lot of attempts, then spend even more attempts trying to socket it. To get an HQ/socketed item that surpasses or comes close to that R/EX gear it will probably cost millions of gil, most likely it will also, as the developers have said, require rare materials from gathering, and from combat class content. (They specifically stated this will be the case for the strongest crafted armors)

Can you at least wait until you see someone in an HQ/fully socketed piece of armor that out classes your own by a whopping 1 vitality before you make a thread entitled "Wah, wah, wah, crafted gear guy has one more vitality than me. Boo, hoo."
#65 Sep 20 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good
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RamseySylph wrote:
Omena wrote:

No, you don't have the exact percentage but there is always a RNG involved and the same goes for forbidden materia crafting. It's entirely luck based even if you can see your odds.


And? My entire point was the risk you are taking is calculated, if you still don't understand what I'm saying, they make things for that, they're called dictionaries.

Actually, that was my point :P

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 2:36pm by FilthMcNasty
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#66 Sep 20 2011 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't agree with everything that Ramsey is saying in his post, but as a counter argument to the comment about no one caring about the economy in WoW and to support Ramsey's counter position: There is a little game (that I actually do not play myself, although one of my close friends is addicted to) called Eve. According to 2008 statistics, Eve was competing for it's place as the 5th most popular MMO, behind Lineage I/II, Runescape, FFXI, and of course WoW. To my knowledge, Eve is a nearly 100% "crafter" based economy, with all ships and almost all attachments coming from the player driven market.

I'm sure the quick response to this will be that I am comparing apples and oranges, which, to a degree, is true. This is beside the point, as the point I am trying to make is that there are plenty of ways to create a crafting based economy that is popular and compelling. From what my friend tells me, while having deep pockets helps, it is less about having the money, and more about who you know. Which is exactly what FFXIV has been trying to accomplish; making crafters and fighters work together for the betterment of both.
#67 Sep 20 2011 at 6:38 PM Rating: Decent
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RamseySylph wrote:

And? My entire point was the risk you are taking is calculated, if you still don't understand what I'm saying, they make things for that, they're called dictionaries.

My issue with your calculated risk argument is that I don't understand what your point is. You can see the odds, so what? How does that change anything? Why is your "calculated risk" any better than an estimated risk?

Quote:

If you have a burning desire to have the absolute best gear, in every single slot, and feel like if someone doesn't conform to those exact standards, they're a worthless and despicable player, you're just a huge @#%^. There's no other alternative. Let's assume for a moment though, that you didn't mean what you insinuated...

Even if this was the way to get the absolute best gear, the amount a few materia will make is again, a marginal, increase, so having an item socketed with less materia, or an R/EX item is going to be roughly the same, if not better in the case of the R/EX item.

So you think it's desirable to have a system where gil buyers will, even if only by a little bit, be guaranteed to surpass everyone else? Even if you didn't see the cons with this, what exactly are the pros with forbidden materia crafting? I honestly see none.

Quote:

Also, unless they suddenly add in 24 hour repop HNMs, there's really no way for anyone to get an iron grip on any kind of item... So, why are you worrying over something that isn't even possible given our current systems?

It's just a possible scenario I'm proposing. If it doesn't happen, forget about the elite shells as only gil buyers will have the best gear.

Quote:

I am sure there will be cases where this is true, and where it is false. Why is it a problem? Honestly, answer that question.

Because any doofus who simply spams standard synth (or bots) can easily get to 50 in any craft he pleases. There is no skill or teamwork involved whatsoever. It's a huge boring grind that makes you want to drive nails into your eyes but that doesn't make it any less difficult.

Quote:

Quote:

The best gear should be a reward for beating tough content, not for having the deepest pockets.


Why?

Do I really need to answer this? Like, really? Fine: Anyone can farm money, not everyone can beat the toughest encounters. There is a reason why WoW top tier gear comes from the top tier raid instance and not an NPC vendor that sells it for gold.

Quote:

What makes rare materials that you as a combat class obtain automatically more valuable than rare items that gatherers obtain, or high quality, rare materials that crafters create? Nothing. A false sense of entitlement based on apparently, your experiences playing World of Warcraft. (Please do not derail this thread /crosses fingers.)

Their economy works for them, but that does not mean it will work for this game. In fact, it would never, ever, in a million years work for a game where crafting and gathering are taken even remotely seriously.

Combat classes tackle difficult content, gatherers and crafters only repeat the same thing. This game tries to take crafting and gathering seriously but it's actually just a very mechanical grind. Much more so than even the somewhat poor combat.

Quote:

You can put in hard work to get a rare piece of gear from doing combat related activities, or you can put in the hard work as a crafter to make high quality gear, something that takes a lot of attempts, then spend even more attempts trying to socket it. To get an HQ/socketed item that surpasses or comes close to that R/EX gear it will probably cost millions of gil, most likely it will also, as the developers have said, require rare materials from gathering, and from combat class content. (They specifically stated this will be the case for the strongest crafted armors)

Can you at least wait until you see someone in an HQ/fully socketed piece of armor that out classes your own by a whopping 1 vitality before you make a thread entitled "Wah, wah, wah, crafted gear guy has one more vitality than me. Boo, hoo."

Millions? Let's try billions. People already sell +3 items for a hundred million or more. My problem is that the uber gear with 1 more vitality came from a bottable activity and was probably paid for by buying gil from an RMT firm. In some games the best gear is first reached by the most skilled players, in FFXIV it'll likely be gil buyers and botters. This is, my personal bias aside, just plain bad design.


Edited, Sep 20th 2011 8:39pm by Omena
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#68 Sep 20 2011 at 6:50 PM Rating: Good
Omena wrote:
Millions? Let's try billions. People already sell +3 items for a hundred million or more.


God I feel bad for Saronia. I am fairly sure I can buy any item +3 for less then 5 million gil on Palamecia. I rarely see +2's for over 1 million. The most expensive item in the game currently being a FFXIV Item:Silver Alembic +3, and that is only because of how fing hard it is to get FFXIV Item:Gold Dust (let alone Gold Dust +3) to make the FFXIV Item:Red Glass Lens for the recipe.

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 8:56pm by StateAlchemist
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#69 Sep 20 2011 at 7:16 PM Rating: Default
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Omena wrote:
So you think it's desirable to have a system where gil buyers will...


It's not that I've chosen not to respond to the rest of your post, it's that I've chosen not to read it.

Your logic is inherently flawed, you believe that an economy where money is useful cannot exist, because it will then be more easily abused by those who participate in fraudulent activities.

I maintain that you're essentially "letting the terrorists win" if you simply make a game where "Everything is bound, and the points (read: money) don't matter!" RMT and cheating have to be taken into account, but if you make the rest of the population, and the inherent game design suffer for the sake of preventing that activity, you're really making the wrong choice.

In reality, you're far more afraid of having to work for gil and spend gil in order to get gear that strokes your ePeen the right way, and little of it has to do with RMT. The reality is this: most games have a strongly controlled (read: socialist) economy, this game has a much more open capitalist style economy, something necessary where crafting and gathering are supported, and the trade of goods is important.

There are hundreds of other games that have an economy you would be happy with, one where money is meaningless, and everything is "fair." Go play one of them.



#70 Sep 20 2011 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
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Omena wrote:
RamseySylph wrote:

And? My entire point was the risk you are taking is calculated, if you still don't understand what I'm saying, they make things for that, they're called dictionaries.

My issue with your calculated risk argument is that I don't understand what your point is. You can see the odds, so what? How does that change anything? Why is your "calculated risk" any better than an estimated risk?

It doesn't matter what word you attach before the word risk. The point is that it is a choice you have whether or not to attempt forbidden materialization. You said "it's not a calculated risk, it's what everyone will have to do to keep up", but that isn't true. To 'keep up', if by that you mean stay geared up enough to be competitive(which doesn't fit XIV anyway), you will have to defeat NMs for gear. The idea is that people who don't raid instances have a chance, however small depending on the success rate, to make comparable gear.
Omena wrote:
So you think it's desirable to have a system where gil buyers will, even if only by a little bit, be guaranteed to surpass everyone else? Even if you didn't see the cons with this, what exactly are the pros with forbidden materia crafting? I honestly see none.

What is your obsession with RMT? People who are lazy will buy their way to the top.[Insert 'America, **** yeah!' image here]




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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#71 Sep 20 2011 at 8:33 PM Rating: Good
FilthMcNasty wrote:
People who are lazy will buy their way to the top. Insert 'America, @#%^ yeah!' image here


Challenge accepted!

Screenshot
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#72 Sep 22 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default
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RamseySylph wrote:

Your logic is inherently flawed, you believe that an economy where money is useful cannot exist, because it will then be more easily abused by those who participate in fraudulent activities.

I maintain that you're essentially "letting the terrorists win" if you simply make a game where "Everything is bound, and the points (read: money) don't matter!" RMT and cheating have to be taken into account, but if you make the rest of the population, and the inherent game design suffer for the sake of preventing that activity, you're really making the wrong choice.

I already addressed this very point in my post. Too bad you didn't read it.

Quote:

In reality, you're far more afraid of having to work for gil and spend gil in order to get gear that strokes your ePeen the right way, and little of it has to do with RMT. The reality is this: most games have a strongly controlled (read: socialist) economy, this game has a much more open capitalist style economy, something necessary where crafting and gathering are supported, and the trade of goods is important.

There are hundreds of other games that have an economy you would be happy with, one where money is meaningless, and everything is "fair." Go play one of them.

Yes, I'm afraid of having to work for gil. I want a game, not a job. I want to be rewarded for excelling, not for grinding at a boring, repetitive job. Also, as much as I loathe central bankers and politicians messing with the real world economy, the sad reality is that working in real life and then buying gil is a lot more efficient than simply spending that time earning money within the game.

This means RMT is is going to be an ever present threat. It doesn't mean you have to completely hamstring everyone just to tackle their business, but there are measures you can take that diminish the effects of RMT while not interfering with gameplay. Yes, the in-game economy will be less like the real world one but simply the fact that there is a meta-economy that can be used to influence the in-game economy already ruins the similarity. I consider it cheating because I don't think anything outside the game should affect it, so I won't do it no matter what, but it's actually a very rational thing to do and people definitely will do it en masse.


Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 5:13pm by Omena
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#73 Sep 22 2011 at 3:59 PM Rating: Decent
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You and I are not going to agree. Thankfully, you not liking the system isn't going to change it, so I'm all smiles and sunshine.
#74 Sep 23 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Guys, I honestly doubt you will be able to sell gear with materia attached to it.
The market wards would simply explode, and even trading would be a scam-a-holic mess with it.
Most likely only items purged of materia, and *possibly* materia will be sellable.
And I am not even too sure about the latter (after all, it's "personal" attachment).
...
Just think about bots being able to mass-produce "personal attachment" by killing marmots for weeks. My guess is that won't be allowed to happen.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2011 10:09am by Rinsui
#75 Sep 23 2011 at 9:02 AM Rating: Default
11 posts
Ramsey, you are obviously not a crafter, that cant understand this whole materia thing. Once you get higher level in craft ranks. Then you will understand that this is a good thing. Seems like u are focused on the cost of items.
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#76 Sep 23 2011 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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SR79 wrote:
Ramsey, you are obviously not a crafter, that cant understand this whole materia thing. Once you get higher level in craft ranks. Then you will understand that this is a good thing. Seems like u are focused on the cost of items.

Ramsey is more a crafter than he is an adventurer or gatherer, and I'm pretty darn sure Ramsey understands the materia system is a good thing that will help the game in the long run.

He's been arguing in favor of it the whole thread.
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#77 Sep 23 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Rinsui wrote:
Guys, I honestly doubt you will be able to sell gear with materia attached to it.
The market wards would simply explode, and even trading would be a scam-a-holic mess with it.
Most likely only items purged of materia, and *possibly* materia will be sellable.
And I am not even too sure about the latter (after all, it's "personal" attachment).
...
Just think about bots being able to mass-produce "personal attachment" by killing marmots for weeks. My guess is that won't be allowed to happen.

Edited, Sep 23rd 2011 10:09am by Rinsui


It's not up for debate whether materia can be sold, in fact I'm even fairly certain it was specified that gear can be sold that's socketed. At this point it's how much support the market wards will offer for the sale of these items.

SR79 wrote:
Ramsey, you are obviously not a crafter, that cant understand this whole materia thing. Once you get higher level in craft ranks. Then you will understand that this is a good thing. Seems like u are focused on the cost of items.


?
#78 Sep 24 2011 at 5:31 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Dallie wrote:
It was my understanding that all materia enhanced gear will be bound, maybe I missed something. If it's not, that's going to create a humongous glut of crafted items, vs. a more reliable way of removing them from the system. Imagine trying to find a robe that has the materia stats you want, with our current wards system. I really wouldn't want to spend 2 hours searching through retainers for one item again.

After a couple minutes searching on Lodestone, it doesn't say anything about the item being R/EX, that could spell trouble in the long haul for purchasing...

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/277


Edited, Sep 17th 2011 9:59am by Dallie


As a reminder they said that you can have someone attach the materia on to the gear FOR YOU. THis implies that the end result is trade-able. They could however prevent it from being listed in bazaars somehow I am sure. But who knows. Could be that you have to remove any Materia on an item to sell it in a bazaar. Maybe only trading will be allowed.

I have no idea. But yes this could cause some confusion.

There is always the possibility that a system similar to the repair-bazaar we currently have may be used to augment armor. Place the items in the bazaar and a crafter comes along to augment it for you... for a fee. Still, if its tradeable, then it could potentially create a new market for augmented equipment. It's never a bad thing to have more of an economy!
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#80 Sep 24 2011 at 11:41 AM Rating: Excellent
All this talk about being elite... is having the best gear in the game really a sign of responsibility? Hmm. I think the only definition of playing responsibly is to not play so much that you neglect loved ones, suffer decreased performance in work/school, etc. That is by far and awa THE proper definition of being a responsible gamer.

Everything else is just playstyle.
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#82 Sep 24 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
what I desire does not equate to success.


If only more people would see the world as we do.
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#84 Sep 25 2011 at 12:50 AM Rating: Good
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Victrola wrote:


Is it possible that I could get comp image support on zam w/o buying it?


I'm almost tempted to ask them to give you a free full membership just for the continued entertainment value.
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#85 Sep 25 2011 at 4:29 AM Rating: Decent
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victrola you are my all time favorite zam poster. worry not about these fools.
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