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Is Square Enix Killing Final Fantasy?Follow

#1 Sep 19 2011 at 4:20 AM Rating: Decent
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#2 Sep 19 2011 at 4:49 AM Rating: Decent
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It was well publicized that the company only thought to test FFXIII in non-Japanese markets long after they could effectively do anything with the results of said testing, and it’s this type of thinking that will potentially do Square in. The RPG giant has become so big, so successful from previous games, that they have adopted the dangerous attitude that they know what people want, regardless of what they may hear from their fans to the contrary. Many of the games on this list suggest this, and the fact that Final Fantasy VII HD remains a pipe dream is perhaps the most damning evidence of all.


This is exactly what has happened imo.
#3 Sep 19 2011 at 5:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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"FFX HD"

............wot. (flat what)
#4 Sep 19 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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They need to go back to their roots. It seems like sometime during FFXII's development and after the departure of Sakaguchi, they seemed to start to have this arrogant "whatever we make, they'll buy" attitude.

Now Square-Enix doesn't have much of anything left in terms of good game designers. They lost Sakaguchi, Yasumi Matsuno, Hiromichi Tanaka (now before you start burning me at the stake, he designed FFIII, FFXI, and Chrono Cross). All they really have left is Yoshinori Kitase, and he likes to emphasize story over gameplay (as is his design philosophy- See: FFVII/FFVIII/FFX/X-2/XIII/XIII-2), and I really don't care for his style.

Is Final Fantasy being killed? Probably. Someone needs to kick S-E down a few notches and remind them how the franchise started in the first place.

Though, I will say, I really admire Naoki Yoshida. I wish he was hired early on in XIV's development. Oh, and Hiroyuki Ito as well.


Edited, Sep 19th 2011 5:15am by UltKnightGrover
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#5 Sep 19 2011 at 6:35 AM Rating: Decent
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The problem is that they act like they only have FF and DQ! None of their other Epic series gets any love, i would love to see a chrono ****** that gets the same AAA treatment as a FF ****** does, or a Sekendetsu, a xenogears, a parasite eve, **** what about vagrant story 2 ? or how about a FFT2 not that kiddie version they gave us ....
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#6 Sep 19 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Article wrote:
The RPG giant has become so big, so successful from previous games, that they have adopted the dangerous attitude that they know what people want, regardless of what they may hear from their fans to the contrary.

How is that a bad thing, really? **** this sense of entitlement young folks gets nowadays.

Should I youtube South Park's episode about X-mas and making sure everyone is happy or something?

No professional game designer worth his salt make a game solely on fans' opinion...

(and I know I will get burned for saying it out loud, but I just couldn't keep it inside.)
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#7 Sep 19 2011 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:
Article wrote:
The RPG giant has become so big, so successful from previous games, that they have adopted the dangerous attitude that they know what people want, regardless of what they may hear from their fans to the contrary.

How is that a bad thing, really? **** this sense of entitlement young folks gets nowadays.

Should I youtube South Park's episode about X-mas and making sure everyone is happy or something?

No professional game designer worth his salt make a game solely on fans' opinion...

(and I know I will get burned for saying it out loud, but I just couldn't keep it inside.)


And no developer worth their salt thinks their sh*t don't stink and they can do no wrong. S-E got slapped hard in the face with that little bit of knowledge.

And guess what? If they'd listened to FANS in beta, they wouldn't have a sh*tty UI.

If they'd listened to FANS, they wouldn't have considered leves to be viable main content.

If they'd listened to FANS, they would have just had an AH from the start and wouldn't be stuck still trying to "upgrade" the crappy vendors.

If they'd have listened to FANS, this game wouldn't be known around the world as a big, fat failure.

The list goes on.

The only ones with a sense of entitlement was S-E, who thought they were entitled to our money just because they slapped a Final Fantasy logo on the box.




Edited, Sep 19th 2011 9:05am by Zorvan
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#8 Sep 19 2011 at 7:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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How did I know they would bring up an FFVII remake in a SQUENIX IS DIEING article?

Why FFVII should never get a remake:

Timing contributed more to FFVII's success than anything else. The first FF on PS1, first FF my generation played in their tweens/teens--oh, that magical time, and there was something about the superior-yet-inferior graphics and clumsy translation of the era that let your imagination fill in the gaps. A remake means all of that goes away. A remake means the bizarre, campy content and language would be "corrected," characters and scenarios retconned to fit the mold of Advent Children. And, worst of all, voice acting.

Fans don't want an FFVII remake. They want to feel like kids again playing FFVII for the first time, and somehow they think modernizing the game will feed that nostalgia. I am telling you: it won't. It can't. FFVII is successful because of when it was, not what it was.

Why FFX is getting the HD treatment, and not FFVII:

As it is a PS2 title, FFX needs only high-resolution textures and widescreen support (if it doesn't have it already) to make the transition to HD. FFVII, on the other hand, would have to be built from scratch. These HD remixes are supposed to be cheap cash-ins, not large projects.

Why FFX is getting the HD treatment, and not FFXII International Zodiac Job System Deluxe Edition with Dipping Sauce:

Ashe's **** < Lulu's rack

Also,
Ostia wrote:
xenogears, a parasite eve[...] or how about a FFT2 not that kiddie version they gave us ....

Xenogears turned into this embarrassing **************************************************************************************************** But then this happened!?

Parasite Eve got a sequel recently. Kind of.

FFTA has one of the bleakest stories I've ever seen in a video game. You must be pretending to be a tough guy on the internet to call it "kiddie."



Edited, Sep 19th 2011 9:14am by Almalexia
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#9 Sep 19 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:
How did I know they would bring up an FFVII remake in a SQUENIX IS DIEING article?

Why FFVII should never get a remake:

Timing contributed more to FFVII's success than anything else. The first FF on PS1, first FF my generation played in their tweens/teens--oh, that magical time, and there was something about the superior-yet-inferior graphics and clumsy translation of the era that let your imagination fill in the gaps. A remake means all of that goes away. A remake means the bizarre, campy content and language would be "corrected," characters and scenarios retconned to fit the mold of Advent Children. And, worst of all, voice acting.

Fans don't want an FFVII remake. They want to feel like kids again playing FFVII for the first time, and somehow they think modernizing the game will feed that nostalgia. I am telling you: it won't. It can't. FFVII is successful because of when it was, not what it was.

Why FFX is getting the HD treatment, and not FFVII:

As it is a PS2 title, FFX needs only high-resolution textures and widescreen support (if it doesn't have it already) to make the transition to HD. FFVII, on the other hand, would have to be built from scratch. These HD remixes are supposed to be cheap cash-ins, not large projects.

Why FFX is getting the HD treatment, and not FFXII International Zodiac Job System Deluxe Edition with Dipping Sauce:

Ashe's **** < Lulu's rack




How did I know that there would be someone who's only defense of S-E against the article would involve the FFVII remake and nothing else?
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#10 Sep 19 2011 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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I am neither defending nor attacking SE. Sober up and read my post again. If you'd like, I could put little commentaries in the margin.
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#11 Sep 19 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Decent
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It's so vogue to hate on SE right now. I genuinely believe SE could release an absolute masterpiece right now, and people would still slaughter them for it.

**** all this hating on the FFX remake is completely uncalled for. It was Sony's initiative to start the HD remasters collection, and SE decided they'd join in the fun like everyone else. The program is for PS2 games, not older games. FFX is by no means a bad game, the fans loved it, and it really does deserve a remake. Did people get angry at the God of War remakes? Nope. So why are people at the FFX remake?

I know people are angry about FFVII, but they're clearly staying off the game for a reason.

SE have never been a constant success story, they've almost been bankrupted 3 times. FFXIV is just the Spirits within of this decade(only they have the potential to fix that).

I really believe they have what it takes to make another batch of "good" Final Fantasy games.
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#12 Sep 19 2011 at 7:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:
I am neither defending nor attacking SE. Sober up and read my post again. If you'd like, I could put little commentaries in the margin.


It was S-E who backtracked on their "never gonna happen" stance with FFVII and changed it to a "we're considering it". So it's their fault people expect it.

Quite ironically, they changed their stance after Sakaguchi proved they were incompetent liars ( when S-E stated you couldn't have an RPG with HD towns ( like FFVII ) because it would eat too much hardware resources on the consoles and take too much time) by releasing Lost Odyssey in full HD with all the towns and other trappings of a FULL JRPG.

Edited, Sep 19th 2011 9:46am by Zorvan
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#13 Sep 19 2011 at 7:59 AM Rating: Excellent
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ditx wrote:
It's so vogue to hate on SE right now. I genuinely believe SE could release an absolute masterpiece right now, and people would still slaughter them for it.


No, we wouldn't. We'd play it. Some of us are still playing their ten year old masterpiece, and it's, well... Ten years old.

However, people still have a lot of legitimate gripes with this game and they are certainly not unfounded. With developers like BioWare and Bethesda out there competing for the title of master RPG storyteller, SE really needs this kick in the *** to remain competitive. There's too many good developers out there now. How many game of the year titles has Square Enix walked away with? I took a quick look down the wiki page and saw only one, Chrono Cross, back in 2000. Meanwhile, every other tab shows almost universal accolades for games like Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3.

Square Enix needs to step up their game, and a remake of FFX isn't going to do it.
#14 Sep 19 2011 at 9:05 AM Rating: Good
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I'm gonna leave the fun/entertainment argument out of this because its pretty subjective. New games better or worse than the old ones? I can't say, but I can say I like them less. they're still selling plenty of copies, still getting fairly good reviews (but releases are getting further and further apart). But what I do know is that its not the same as it used to be. And thats ******* a bunch of people off. so it doesn't surprise me to see that people look at each new FF game, look at the deviations and complain that its bad/wrong/killing the franchise because its not what they wanted it to be. JRPG popularity seems to be at an all time low, and SE really shouldn't even be considered a AAA developer anymore (I don't actually know if they are). I think I would be more disappointed in them if they were just putting out the same basic game every 2-3 years, some of their innovations have had some good ideas behind them, just with poor execution.

Short version. I don't think the games are that much worse, I just think people like them less.

(I should add none of that relates to FFXIV, which was just a thrown together pos)
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#15 Sep 19 2011 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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ditx wrote:
It's so vogue to hate on SE right now. I genuinely believe SE could release an absolute masterpiece right now, and people would still slaughter them for it.
Too bad for your theory they haven't released an absolute masterpiece in eleven years.
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#16 Sep 19 2011 at 9:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Because all FF fans agree on what they want, it gives SE a clear target for what to do next.
#17 Sep 19 2011 at 9:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:
How did I know they would bring up an FFVII remake in a SQUENIX IS DIEING article?

Why FFVII should never get a remake:

Timing contributed more to FFVII's success than anything else. The first FF on PS1, first FF my generation played in their tweens/teens--oh, that magical time, and there was something about the superior-yet-inferior graphics and clumsy translation of the era that let your imagination fill in the gaps. A remake means all of that goes away. A remake means the bizarre, campy content and language would be "corrected," characters and scenarios retconned to fit the mold of Advent Children. And, worst of all, voice acting.

Fans don't want an FFVII remake. They want to feel like kids again playing FFVII for the first time, and somehow they think modernizing the game will feed that nostalgia. I am telling you: it won't. It can't. FFVII is successful because of when it was, not what it was.

Why FFX is getting the HD treatment, and not FFVII:

As it is a PS2 title, FFX needs only high-resolution textures and widescreen support (if it doesn't have it already) to make the transition to HD. FFVII, on the other hand, would have to be built from scratch. These HD remixes are supposed to be cheap cash-ins, not large projects.

Why FFX is getting the HD treatment, and not FFXII International Zodiac Job System Deluxe Edition with Dipping Sauce:

Ashe's **** < Lulu's rack

Also,
Ostia wrote:
xenogears, a parasite eve[...] or how about a FFT2 not that kiddie version they gave us ....

Xenogears turned into this embarrassing cluster@#%^. But then this happened!?

Parasite Eve got a sequel recently. Kind of.

FFTA has one of the bleakest stories I've ever seen in a video game. You must be pretending to be a tough guy on the internet to call it "kiddie."

Edited, Sep 19th 2011 9:14am by Almalexia


You dont know your RPG'S if you think FFTA was one of the bleakest stories in a video game LOL!
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#18 Sep 19 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:
Xenogears turned into this embarrassing cluster@#%^. But then this happened!?



Um Xenoblade has nothing to do with Xenogears.

But to bring it back to SE... I would love to revist Einhander or Bushido Blade with current gen graphics and ctonrolls they could be OMFG amazing... or not.
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#19 Sep 19 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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I'd love some HD Ehrgeiz action... But I guess Dissidia is pretty much that.

No, SE, you won't make me buy a PSP...
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#20 Sep 19 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:

Xenogears turned into this embarrassing cluster@#%^. But then this happened!?

WTF kind of amazing games are you playing where the Xenosaga trilogy is so bad as to be "embarrassing," and where can the rest of us get them?
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#21 Sep 19 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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yfaithfully wrote:
Almalexia wrote:

Xenogears turned into this embarrassing cluster@#%^. But then this happened!?

WTF kind of amazing games are you playing where the Xenosaga trilogy is so bad as to be "embarrassing," and where can the rest of us get them?


Probably kingdom hearts... dunno he seems like SE Fanboy lol
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#22 Sep 19 2011 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
Xenogears turned into this embarrassing cluster@#%^. But then this happened!?



Um Xenoblade has nothing to do with Xenogears.

But to bring it back to SE... I would love to revist Einhander or Bushido Blade with current gen graphics and ctonrolls they could be OMFG amazing... or not.


Worked on by the same famous guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsuya_Takahashi :)
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#23 Sep 19 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Elionara wrote:
Worked on by the same famous guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsuya_Takahashi :)


So ET and StarWars are in the same series then?

I know the name of the game was changed as an homage to Takahashi's work by the dev team, but even Xenogears and Xenosaga are unrelated. Takahashi has even previously stated that they are in completely different universes even if some of the in game dates match up. And Xenoblade was mostly named due to his work on the Xenosaga series. At least from what I can remember. I try not to rely on Wiki too much for anything other than links to sources, there's a reason it's an instant fail source in many college courses.
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#24 Sep 19 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Good
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FFTA has one of the bleakest stories I've ever seen in a video game. You must be pretending to be a tough guy on the internet to call it "kiddie."

I can understand someone calling it "kiddie". because all the main characters are kids, and heck it begins with a snowball fight at school! He's refering to FFT's characters being adults with adult problems, people getting assassinated, leaders of kingdoms drama etc. By comparison FFTA is childish looking.

And I wouldn't call FFTA bleak, I'd call it 'emo'.
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#25 Sep 19 2011 at 1:00 PM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:


No, SE, you won't make me buy a PSP...


PSP is my favourite handheld. It just rocks.
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#26 Sep 19 2011 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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RattyBatty wrote:
Quote:

FFTA has one of the bleakest stories I've ever seen in a video game. You must be pretending to be a tough guy on the internet to call it "kiddie."

I can understand someone calling it "kiddie". because all the main characters are kids, and heck it begins with a snowball fight at school! He's refering to FFT's characters being adults with adult problems, people getting assassinated, leaders of kingdoms drama etc. By comparison FFTA is childish looking.

And I wouldn't call FFTA bleak, I'd call it 'emo'.


Exactly! Plus when the main antagonist goes "I want my mommy Blablabla!" Cant get more kiddie than that, you cant go from a story like FFT to FFTA and expect people to take it seriously....
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#27 Sep 19 2011 at 4:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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I like FFTA... a lot.

/shugs
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#28 Sep 19 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Good
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yfaithfully wrote:
Almalexia wrote:

Xenogears turned into this embarrassing cluster@#%^. But then this happened!?

WTF kind of amazing games are you playing where the Xenosaga trilogy is so bad as to be "embarrassing," and where can the rest of us get them?

I'd be delighted to share them with you. To be fair, I'll limit myself to PS2 RPGs:

Shadow Hearts, also Covenant. Not so much FtNW, before anyone asks.
SMT Persona 3 and Persona 4
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

You can find them on Amazon, eBay, Glyde, local swap meets and video game bargain bins across the world.

Ostia wrote:
Probably kingdom hearts... dunno he seems like SE Fanboy lol

The first KH was a decent action RPG. Of course, you probably didn't bother playing it because it looked too "kiddie" for a mature gamer like yourself. The rest of the KH universe is emo, fanwank ****.

Ostia wrote:
Exactly! Plus when the main antagonist goes "I want my mommy Blablabla!" Cant get more kiddie than that, you cant go from a story like FFT to FFTA and expect people to take it seriously....

Marche never says "I want my mommy Blablabla!"

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#29 Sep 19 2011 at 7:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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Almalexia wrote:
Marche never says "I want my mommy Blablabla!"


Nono, the other guy is right: if a game has kids in it - or even a single kid, really - then it's a game for eight and under. Come to think of it, real-life is also too kiddie for my tastes. That's why I only play Elder Scrolls and Gothic I - II: throughout their entire, expansive, open-worlds, the developers never render anyone under thirty. The way it's supposed to be. >:[
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#30 Sep 19 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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KaneKitty wrote:
Almalexia wrote:
Marche never says "I want my mommy Blablabla!"


Nono, the other guy is right: if a game has kids in it - or even a single kid, really - then it's a game for eight and under. Come to think of it, real-life is also too kiddie for my tastes. That's why I only play Elder Scrolls and Gothic I - II: throughout their entire, expansive, open-worlds, the developers never render anyone under thirty. The way it's supposed to be. >:[


FO1 and FO2 had kids, and you could kill them >:3
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#31 Sep 19 2011 at 8:24 PM Rating: Default
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Almalexia wrote:
yfaithfully wrote:
Almalexia wrote:

Xenogears turned into this embarrassing cluster@#%^. But then this happened!?

WTF kind of amazing games are you playing where the Xenosaga trilogy is so bad as to be "embarrassing," and where can the rest of us get them?

I'd be delighted to share them with you. To be fair, I'll limit myself to PS2 RPGs:

Shadow Hearts, also Covenant. Not so much FtNW, before anyone asks.
SMT Persona 3 and Persona 4
Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

You can find them on Amazon, eBay, Glyde, local swap meets and video game bargain bins across the world.

Ostia wrote:
Probably kingdom hearts... dunno he seems like SE Fanboy lol

The first KH was a decent action RPG. Of course, you probably didn't bother playing it because it looked too "kiddie" for a mature gamer like yourself. The rest of the KH universe is emo, fanwank sh*t.

Ostia wrote:
Exactly! Plus when the main antagonist goes "I want my mommy Blablabla!" Cant get more kiddie than that, you cant go from a story like FFT to FFTA and expect people to take it seriously....

Marche never says "I want my mommy Blablabla!"



..... You dont know your RPG'S, for KH and FFTA are apple's and orange's one has a kiddie setting and tackle's much more mature theme's and the other one is just a run of the mill kiddie game, as for who say's "I want my mommy" that would be mewt the antagonist of the game.
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#32 Sep 19 2011 at 10:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
HERPA A DERP LURP!


I haven't read so much stupidity as contained within your posts since seeing Tanaka saying he's making a game (FFXIV) that's tailored to what the players want.


Besides... LOL!

Typing lol after every sentence completely renders any point you're trying to make moot LOL!

It's nothing but annoying and shows how kiddie you are LOL!

Though I'm more inclined to believe it reflects stupid LOL!



Edited, Sep 20th 2011 12:04am by Viertel
#33 Sep 19 2011 at 10:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
..... You dont know your RPG'S, for KH and FFTA are apple's and orange's one has a kiddie setting and tackle's much more mature theme's and the other one is just a run of the mill kiddie game, as for who say's "I want my mommy" that would be mewt the antagonist of the game.


Well you don't know your apostrophes! Smiley: sly

Also, taking a single (or even a few) lines of dialogue from a character in a video game does not determine whether or not it's "kiddie," whatever that term actually means. >_> RPGs are about meeting and interacting with different characters; every character you encounter doesn't have to be Duke Nukem, you know. In fact, it's Kefka's clownlike whimsicality that makes him so nihilistic and villainous; it's Sephiroth's attachment to his "mother" that gives his motivations such an eerie tinge; and it's the protagonist's desire to reunite with his/her dad that drives the post-apocalyptic Fallout 3.
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#34 Sep 20 2011 at 12:38 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
"I want my mommy Blablabla KiLL KILL!! KILL!!!!!"


that was Sephiroth's line.

Edit: sorry i forgot the script change

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 2:40am by FelixValmont
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#35 Sep 20 2011 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
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FelixValmont wrote:
Quote:
"I want my mommy Blablabla!"


that was Sephiroth's line.


I wasn't going to post in this thread but...


BAZINGA
#36 Sep 20 2011 at 12:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:
..... You dont know your RPG'S

Fine.

The point is, you're never going to play Vagrant Story 2, or a Parasite Eve that is more RPG than shooter, or a non-"kiddie" FFT game--whatever that entails--or a tactical Front Mission game, or another game in the original Xenogears universe, or a version of Nier that isn't an imbalanced button-masher, or a Kingdom Hearts with more Disney/FF characters and fewer original characters.

And that's terrible.
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#37 Sep 20 2011 at 1:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ostia wrote:


..... You dont know your RPG'S, for KH and FFTA are apple's and orange's one has a kiddie setting and tackle's much more mature theme's and the other one is just a run of the mill kiddie game, as for who say's "I want my mommy" that would be mewt the antagonist of the game.

That's just dumb.
Mewt had no friends(Marche and Ritz were his friends for one day before the whole Ivalice thing)
His mother had died.
He wasn't that old.
His father was an alcoholic who was **** close to losing his job.
He was constantly bullied by his classmates, and the teachers didn't seem to give a ****.
He was (game) human. He missed his mother. Do you really think that's childish?

He found the Grimoire and now had the power to change his life completely. He could escape the **** he had to deal with constantly and become someone new and someone important. He could do the same for his father. And he did.
Then Marche ****** it all up for really no reason at all.
The whole point was that no matter how hard life is, it's the only one you have, and no matter how harsh reality is, you have to face it. This isn't childish. There are plenty of adults that don't understand this concept at all(Second Life etc).

FFTA is a great game, but no one gives it a chance because they have a raging nostalgia hard on for FFT.
FFT is a good game. It really is. Story gets pretty **** stupid at parts though, and the end is pretty terrible.

The gameplay for each is about equal in my eyes to. There's not as much strategy involved in the fights in FFTA, but there are also far fewer Cheap *** fights(Like the one against Aries who will one shot you without boosting to **** in the first battle). Squire Ramza with Double Excalibur's is just as broken as Concentrate + Last Breath Assassin's.

It's not like there was room for an actual sequel to FFT(FFT2: Ramza and his sister on a chcoobo electric boogaloo), so I just don't get why people ***** about FFTA.
FFTA2 is the worst out of the whole series though, to structured. But it does have the most human protagonist out of the three.
Seriously, your 14 year old self would be pysched as **** to go stabbing **** with a katana and be death proof.
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#38 Sep 20 2011 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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1,408 posts
Almalexia wrote:


Why FFVII should get a remake:



Money Maker.

Got nothing to do with feeling like a kid again, it was ground breaking for many reasons. Story, music, gameplay, characters.

If they had released that exact game in a FFXIII graphics it would of sold far more then what XIII did and wouldnt of been a flop. Why do you think some games do so well and others dont? A great game usually has basic ideas and not "over think" too much.
It is why its one game that every review will always say "remake".

You may sit there and say that fans DONT... rubbish... and fans didnt want heath ledger as the Joker and look how well that went. No doubt its not easy doing a remake but sitting here saying fans dont want it, remember the video made for PS3 Release? fans went mental over a possible FF7 Remake in Advent Children Quality. Just because there is the occasional stroppy kid who doesnt want it.

I would place a bet of body parts that if SE really did make a proper Remake of FF7 that it would sell far better then XIII did and sit on number 1 for a while. To new FF fans and to old FF fans. People just consider FF7 as over rated - if thats the case then why is the one game of all FF games that bring up the word "Remake".
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#39 Sep 20 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
Almalexia wrote:
Ostia wrote:
..... You dont know your RPG'S

Fine.

The point is, you're never going to play Vagrant Story 2, or a Parasite Eve that is more RPG than shooter, or a non-"kiddie" FFT game--whatever that entails--or a tactical Front Mission game, or another game in the original Xenogears universe, or a version of Nier that isn't an imbalanced button-masher, or a Kingdom Hearts with more Disney/FF characters and fewer original characters.

And that's terrible.


Because SE will not make them ? or wtf are you going on about ?
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#40 Sep 20 2011 at 7:48 AM Rating: Default
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2,202 posts
Uchitoru wrote:
Ostia wrote:


..... You dont know your RPG'S, for KH and FFTA are apple's and orange's one has a kiddie setting and tackle's much more mature theme's and the other one is just a run of the mill kiddie game, as for who say's "I want my mommy" that would be mewt the antagonist of the game.

That's just dumb.
Mewt had no friends(Marche and Ritz were his friends for one day before the whole Ivalice thing)
His mother had died.
He wasn't that old.
His father was an alcoholic who was **** close to losing his job.
He was constantly bullied by his classmates, and the teachers didn't seem to give a ****.
He was (game) human. He missed his mother. Do you really think that's childish?

He found the Grimoire and now had the power to change his life completely. He could escape the **** he had to deal with constantly and become someone new and someone important. He could do the same for his father. And he did.
Then Marche @#%^ed it all up for really no reason at all.
The whole point was that no matter how hard life is, it's the only one you have, and no matter how harsh reality is, you have to face it. This isn't childish. There are plenty of adults that don't understand this concept at all(Second Life etc).

FFTA is a great game, but no one gives it a chance because they have a raging nostalgia hard on for FFT.
FFT is a good game. It really is. Story gets pretty **** stupid at parts though, and the end is pretty terrible.

The gameplay for each is about equal in my eyes to. There's not as much strategy involved in the fights in FFTA, but there are also far fewer Cheap *** fights(Like the one against Aries who will one shot you without boosting to **** in the first battle). Squire Ramza with Double Excalibur's is just as broken as Concentrate + Last Breath Assassin's.

It's not like there was room for an actual sequel to FFT(FFT2: Ramza and his sister on a chcoobo electric boogaloo), so I just don't get why people ***** about FFTA.
FFTA2 is the worst out of the whole series though, to structured. But it does have the most human protagonist out of the three.
Seriously, your 14 year old self would be pysched as **** to go stabbing sh*t with a katana and be death proof.


Nobody said it was a bad game, sure its a good game, i played it, but story wise it pales in comparison to the original, it went from the church plotting with 2 dukes to take over the country, just to be betrayed by their knights who now are demons, to "Omg the kids in school picked on me, because my hair is white.."

And both games could be broken if you chose too, there is no way a squire ramza could have 2 excaliburs unless you cheated <.<
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#41 Sep 20 2011 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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163 posts
It's theirs to kill.
#42 Sep 20 2011 at 9:14 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,636 posts
Ostia wrote:
Uchitoru wrote:
Ostia wrote:


..... You dont know your RPG'S, for KH and FFTA are apple's and orange's one has a kiddie setting and tackle's much more mature theme's and the other one is just a run of the mill kiddie game, as for who say's "I want my mommy" that would be mewt the antagonist of the game.

That's just dumb.
Mewt had no friends(Marche and Ritz were his friends for one day before the whole Ivalice thing)
His mother had died.
He wasn't that old.
His father was an alcoholic who was **** close to losing his job.
He was constantly bullied by his classmates, and the teachers didn't seem to give a ****.
He was (game) human. He missed his mother. Do you really think that's childish?

He found the Grimoire and now had the power to change his life completely. He could escape the **** he had to deal with constantly and become someone new and someone important. He could do the same for his father. And he did.
Then Marche @#%^ed it all up for really no reason at all.
The whole point was that no matter how hard life is, it's the only one you have, and no matter how harsh reality is, you have to face it. This isn't childish. There are plenty of adults that don't understand this concept at all(Second Life etc).

FFTA is a great game, but no one gives it a chance because they have a raging nostalgia hard on for FFT.
FFT is a good game. It really is. Story gets pretty **** stupid at parts though, and the end is pretty terrible.

The gameplay for each is about equal in my eyes to. There's not as much strategy involved in the fights in FFTA, but there are also far fewer Cheap *** fights(Like the one against Aries who will one shot you without boosting to **** in the first battle). Squire Ramza with Double Excalibur's is just as broken as Concentrate + Last Breath Assassin's.

It's not like there was room for an actual sequel to FFT(FFT2: Ramza and his sister on a chcoobo electric boogaloo), so I just don't get why people ***** about FFTA.
FFTA2 is the worst out of the whole series though, to structured. But it does have the most human protagonist out of the three.
Seriously, your 14 year old self would be pysched as **** to go stabbing sh*t with a katana and be death proof.


Nobody said it was a bad game, sure its a good game, i played it, but story wise it pales in comparison to the original, it went from the church plotting with 2 dukes to take over the country, just to be betrayed by their knights who now are demons, to "Omg the kids in school picked on me, because my hair is white.."

And both games could be broken if you chose too, there is no way a squire ramza could have 2 excaliburs unless you cheated <.<


just to nitpick, yes there are 2 legit excaliburs in the game, 1 from orlandu and 1 from deep dungeon.
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#43 Sep 20 2011 at 9:18 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
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1,675 posts
What a dumb thread...

We all know there's at least going to be a FFXXVII:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE3oHCfQTxk
#44 Sep 20 2011 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
***
2,202 posts
KujaKoF wrote:
Ostia wrote:
Uchitoru wrote:
Ostia wrote:


..... You dont know your RPG'S, for KH and FFTA are apple's and orange's one has a kiddie setting and tackle's much more mature theme's and the other one is just a run of the mill kiddie game, as for who say's "I want my mommy" that would be mewt the antagonist of the game.

That's just dumb.
Mewt had no friends(Marche and Ritz were his friends for one day before the whole Ivalice thing)
His mother had died.
He wasn't that old.
His father was an alcoholic who was **** close to losing his job.
He was constantly bullied by his classmates, and the teachers didn't seem to give a ****.
He was (game) human. He missed his mother. Do you really think that's childish?

He found the Grimoire and now had the power to change his life completely. He could escape the **** he had to deal with constantly and become someone new and someone important. He could do the same for his father. And he did.
Then Marche @#%^ed it all up for really no reason at all.
The whole point was that no matter how hard life is, it's the only one you have, and no matter how harsh reality is, you have to face it. This isn't childish. There are plenty of adults that don't understand this concept at all(Second Life etc).

FFTA is a great game, but no one gives it a chance because they have a raging nostalgia hard on for FFT.
FFT is a good game. It really is. Story gets pretty **** stupid at parts though, and the end is pretty terrible.

The gameplay for each is about equal in my eyes to. There's not as much strategy involved in the fights in FFTA, but there are also far fewer Cheap *** fights(Like the one against Aries who will one shot you without boosting to **** in the first battle). Squire Ramza with Double Excalibur's is just as broken as Concentrate + Last Breath Assassin's.

It's not like there was room for an actual sequel to FFT(FFT2: Ramza and his sister on a chcoobo electric boogaloo), so I just don't get why people ***** about FFTA.
FFTA2 is the worst out of the whole series though, to structured. But it does have the most human protagonist out of the three.
Seriously, your 14 year old self would be pysched as **** to go stabbing sh*t with a katana and be death proof.


Nobody said it was a bad game, sure its a good game, i played it, but story wise it pales in comparison to the original, it went from the church plotting with 2 dukes to take over the country, just to be betrayed by their knights who now are demons, to "Omg the kids in school picked on me, because my hair is white.."

And both games could be broken if you chose too, there is no way a squire ramza could have 2 excaliburs unless you cheated <.<


just to nitpick, yes there are 2 legit excaliburs in the game, 1 from orlandu and 1 from deep dungeon.


Really ? i tho it was some other sword, apocalypse or something
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#45 Sep 20 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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1,636 posts
Ostia wrote:

Really ? i tho it was some other sword, apocalypse or something


nah, there are copies of a bunch of the games rare items on the bottom floor or two of that place. Course they're still a random drop with elixer or whatever the other option is, and nearly impossible to get them all without reseting a bunch of times.
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#46 Sep 20 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
******
21,739 posts
Ostia wrote:
..... You dont know your RPG'S, for KH and FFTA are apple's and orange's one has a kiddie setting and tackle's much more mature theme's and the other one is just a run of the mill kiddie game, as for who say's "I want my mommy" that would be mewt the antagonist of the game.
By that train of thought I suppose you hated Earthbound.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#47 Sep 20 2011 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
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970 posts
Final Fantasy will be around a long, long, time.
You may have grown out of the series, or it doesn't appeal to you as much on a personal level. It has become a part of our culture just like Transformers, GI-Joe, etc.

You can take any game and make 10 sequels of it. There will be opinions galore on which is better. Even if the gameplay remains the same. If BIoware took Mass Effect or Dragon Age to a 10+ series. You will see this same argument at that time. Or you will see how the series doesn't feel the same to old schoolers. Trust me.
#48 Sep 21 2011 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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2,202 posts
sandpark wrote:
Final Fantasy will be around a long, long, time.
You may have grown out of the series, or it doesn't appeal to you as much on a personal level. It has become a part of our culture just like Transformers, GI-Joe, etc.

You can take any game and make 10 sequels of it. There will be opinions galore on which is better. Even if the gameplay remains the same. If BIoware took Mass Effect or Dragon Age to a 10+ series. You will see this same argument at that time. Or you will see how the series doesn't feel the same to old schoolers. Trust me.


Curiously they where doing fine until sakaguchi stepped down....

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#49 Sep 21 2011 at 3:31 AM Rating: Default
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97 posts
I think it's really hard to say...

Is SE killing the Final Fantasy we know? Yes in my opinion. Is that necessarily bad? I couldn't say, my mind is still locked in my golden age of rpg's. I guess kids these days don't really mind, they just play the games without prior knowledge of what has been. That's why FXIII has been a financial success and that's why SE is releasing more games linked to that era. Public opinion or reviews don't matter as long as your products are selling, is what I like to believe SE is thinking. Which results in overconfidence (you can call it arrogance if you want). That's probably why they fell flat on their faces with the release of FFXIV. And why other developers have experienced the same kind of critisism with certain releases. Nowadays, if a game isn't similar to Call of Duty or Battlefield, it won't sell as well. I mean, Homefront, MAG and other titles that try to imitate instead of innovate. And if developers copy their style too much, it's stealing in many people's opinion, not original enough. But it would probably sell just as well, is what they think. While games like Borderlands, Uncharted and Batman: Arkham Asylum do their own thing and deliver very enticing games that are original and engaging, instead of trying to imitate. By copying a certain style, because developers think it would sell well, but they'll lose good ideas that just need to be developed more, ideas that need to be extended. SE is trying to adapt their games to the western part of the world, while many people would just be very happy to see their original games being produced like they used to. Lost Odyssey is a good example of that.

Would I buy a Final Fantasy style of Oblivion and really enjoy myself? I definately wouldn't. That's because I like the old FF style. I really dislike first person rpg's, especially Oblivion. But Final Fantasy games certainly have lacked quality in my opinion lately. Not enough top-notch gameplay, open world feeling etc. you know the opinion. For example, no challenge in FXII when you have your gambits set really well. You can leave your AI to fight the toughest bosses, and sit there doing nothing.

I really didn't think Xenosaga was bad, I really liked the storyline even though gameplay was limited, but not really boring. I bought Xenosaga 2 and really enjoyed the movie from part 1 that was bundled with it. Then again, part 2 was, apart from it's storyline, a bit meh. Did scare me away from part 3, which to my regret, I haven't played, cause of the bad taste in my mouth of the previous game.

There aren't that many JRPG's anymore, those are mostly srpg's nowadays. Disgaea, Atlus games, Nippon Ichi games, a couple gems on both handhelds is all that's left. In my opinion SE should stick to their current course and adapt to what they think is right, but definately not imitate or try to change their games so much, that they'll alienate the people that bought their games all these years during the PS1/PS2 period. I used to like the turn-based style. Leave the other style games to games like Star Ocean, which series has a action-rpg type. Alas, SE didn't deliver in my opinion on the current gen consoles. Mistwalker did, which makes me wonder why im still worried about my opinion of SE.

Is Square enix killing Final Fantasy? I think I couldn't care less.... I'll play any game I like that SE releases and stay away from games I don't like. That hasn't changed. It's the same with my favourite developer Tri-Ace. I stay away from the End of Eternity and still enjoy Star Ocean 3.

Thought I would probably be really tempted to play FFX on a ps3 ^^

Oh and btw, isn't The 3rd Birthday on the psp considered a follow-up to Parasite Eve? It has Aya Brea in it..... (I didn't look fun to me).

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 4:11pm by MonarctheFirst
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#50 Sep 21 2011 at 5:55 AM Rating: Good
MonarctheFirst wrote:

...Would I buy a Final Fantasy style of Oblivion and really enjoy myself? I probably would...
...And I probably wouldn't buy a FF style-oblivion :p

Smiley: dubious
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#51 Sep 21 2011 at 6:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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MonarctheFirst wrote:
Nowadays, if a game isn't similar to Call of Duty or Battlefield, it won't sell as well. And if developers copy their style too much, it's stealing in many people's opinion, not original enough. But it would probably sell just as well.

Wrong.

Enormously wrong.

BIG GULP wrong.

This is what market analysts believe; you know, those guys who tell conglomo-publishers like EA what to do with their franchises to earn big money. They are the reason Dragon Age--which sold extremely well and created a huge following--turned into the button masher Dragon Age II. It's the reason Mass Effect is turning into a TPS with faint RPG elements instead of remaining a shooter-RPG. It's the reason Front Mission became a TPS instead of remaining a tactical RPG. It's the reason almost everything that brands itself an RPG these days on consoles is a mashy action-RPG (handhelds, however, enjoy an RPG boom). Perhaps they think turn-based RPGs are too "kiddie," or perhaps they think we are all kids ourselves incapable of going .1 seconds without killing something.

What many publishers don't seem to realize is that all of the people who played the Baldur's Gates, Legend of Dragoons, Legend of Legaias, Neverwinter Nights and [insert your favorite PS2 RPG here] did not vanish from the face of the earth around 2006. In fact, the market for them is better than ever before. No longer are they lonely RPG nerds; they are now lonely RPG nerds with disposable incomes! Dragon Age: Origins is enough to prove how viable this market is: the game has sold upwards of 3.2 million copies. Dragon Age II has only cracked one million, a quarter of which were hopeful pre-orders. What happened? EA/Bioware alienated the very @#%^ing people who made the franchise a success in the first place by targeting a completely different audience.

Why did EA/Bioware do this?

Because Call of Duty was making more money.

Oh, yeah, they think, OH, they think targeting the fickle casuals and the "hardcore" shooter crowd will turn a nice profit. As if they are all just wallets with eyes that gravitate towards the bloodiest, flashiest, sexiest thing on a Gamestop shelf. And here's what blows my mind: EA already owns a competitor to Call of Duty in its own genre. Why must this publisher drag down every other IP in a wrongheaded pursuit of the non-RPG crowd, especially when the actual RPG crowd--which has never gone away, which has more money to spend on RPGs than ever before, and which numbers in the millions--has made their presence abundantly clear with the success of DA:O? Or Demon's Souls? Or, sh*t, look at Atlus' Persona team: they made a puzzle game! In a cave! With a bunch of scraps! And it is a financial success! And it also comes highly recommended by me!

Point is, these publishing giants need to stop hammering a single market with all of their subordinate developers. Everyone's been focused on streamlining, casualizing and targeting CoD's audience while all of us--the old school consumers in our 20s and 30s--languish on our piles of unspent money.

Quote:
Oh and btw, isn't The 3rd Birthday on the psp considered a follow-up to Parasite Eve? It has Aya Brea in it.....

It is. They dropped the Resident Evil style of PE2 for a full-blown TPS.

The game is not very good.

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 8:15am by Almalexia
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