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Is Square Enix Killing Final Fantasy?Follow

#52 Sep 21 2011 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Sleepdrunk, never mind this post ^^;

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 4:16pm by MonarctheFirst
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#53 Sep 21 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Decent
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Almalexia wrote:

This is what market analysts believe; you know, those guys who tell conglomo-publishers like EA what to do with their franchises to earn big money. They are the reason Dragon Age--which sold extremely well and created a huge following--turned into the button masher Dragon Age II. It's the reason Mass Effect is turning into a TPS with faint RPG elements instead of remaining a shooter-RPG. It's the reason Front Mission became a TPS instead of remaining a tactical RPG. It's the reason almost everything that brands itself an RPG these days on consoles is a mashy action-RPG (handhelds, however, enjoy an RPG boom). Perhaps they think turn-based RPGs are too "kiddie," or perhaps they think we are all kids ourselves incapable of going .1 seconds without killing something.

What many publishers don't seem to realize is that all of the people who played the Baldur's Gates, Legend of Dragoons, Legend of Legaias, Neverwinter Nights and [insert your favorite PS2 RPG here] did not vanish from the face of the earth around 2006. In fact, the market for them is better than ever before. No longer are they lonely RPG nerds; they are now lonely RPG nerds with disposable incomes! Dragon Age: Origins is enough to prove how viable this market is: the game has sold upwards of 3.2 million copies. Dragon Age II has only cracked one million, a quarter of which were hopeful pre-orders. What happened? EA/Bioware alienated the very @#%^ing people who made the franchise a success in the first place by targeting a completely different audience.

Why did EA/Bioware do this?

Because Call of Duty was making more money.

Oh, yeah, they think, OH, they think targeting the fickle casuals and the "hardcore" shooter crowd will turn a nice profit. As if they are all just wallets with eyes that gravitate towards the bloodiest, flashiest, sexiest thing on a Gamestop shelf. And here's what blows my mind: EA already owns a competitor to Call of Duty in its own genre. Why must this publisher drag down every other IP in a wrongheaded pursuit of the non-RPG crowd, especially when the actual RPG crowd--which has never gone away, which has more money to spend on RPGs than ever before, and which numbers in the millions--has made their presence abundantly clear with the success of DA:O? Or Demon's Souls? Or, sh*t, look at Atlus' Persona team: they made a puzzle game! In a cave! With a bunch of scraps! And it is a financial success! And it also comes highly recommended by me!

Point is, these publishing giants need to stop hammering a single market with all of their subordinate developers. Everyone's been focused on streamlining, casualizing and targeting CoD's audience while all of us--the old school consumers in our 20s and 30s--languish on our piles of unspent money.

Quote:
Oh and btw, isn't The 3rd Birthday on the psp considered a follow-up to Parasite Eve? It has Aya Brea in it.....

It is. They dropped the Resident Evil style of PE2 for a full-blown TPS.

The game is not very good.

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 8:15am by Almalexia

Dragon Age 2 didn't sell as well because they cut corners and shrunk the world. I didn't like DAO Auto Attack(clunky and lack of control)or DA 2 hack and slash(simple mechanics) too much. A game can still be very tactical and not have auto attack or be turned based. The problem is when you remove automation, you have to replace it with intuitive mechanics. Things like momentum, timed swings, situational attacks,etc.
Mass Effect2 is better than ME1 in every almost single way including combat. The only things I think ME2 did worse are the dialogue wheel and resource exploration. The removed the sandbox flavorings it used to have that made it more old school.

Turn-based rpgs and old school rpgs still exists. They normally don't sell as well though. **** rpgs in general don't sell as well compared to other genres. Unless you single out FF, Zelda or Dragon quest. I enjoy both turn-based and action based rpgs. The rpg mechanic I hate most is auto attack. It usually always feels clunky or like control is not of your doing. FFXIII is still turn-based. Only instead of 1 to 1 turns. It ends up at 5 to 5 turns. My three biggest problems with XIII are. They removed almost all resource management to achieve the faster combat speed and there wasn't enough character unique skills. Lastly, the AI assist is too good. I would have prefered gambits 2.0, so at least my input has more meaning.

The main things I think rpg developers need to remember is:
1.We like tactical combat.
No matter what combat system you roll with. If the tactical depth doesn't outshine the mash. You're gonna to get complaints.
2.We care about our environments.
In FPS it is easier to create realistic worlds because gamers usually only play on 1-16 maps. If the world is small or not full of life in an rpg that we can explore at our leisure. You're going to get complaints.
3.Gameplay over Aesthethics
We like pretty things just like every other genre. But if the cost is shrinking the world, making the journey linnear, or shrinking content. You can take that pretty and shove it. If you can accomplish both, then you got some happy campers. If not, you're going to get complaints.
#54 Sep 21 2011 at 8:14 AM Rating: Good
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Almalexia wrote:
MonarctheFirst wrote:
Nowadays, if a game isn't similar to Call of Duty or Battlefield, it won't sell as well. And if developers copy their style too much, it's stealing in many people's opinion, not original enough. But it would probably sell just as well.

Wrong.

Enormously wrong.

BIG GULP wrong.

This is what market analysts believe; you know, those guys who tell conglomo-publishers like EA what to do with their franchises to earn big money. They are the reason Dragon Age--which sold extremely well and created a huge following--turned into the button masher Dragon Age II. It's the reason Mass Effect is turning into a TPS with faint RPG elements instead of remaining a shooter-RPG. It's the reason Front Mission became a TPS instead of remaining a tactical RPG. It's the reason almost everything that brands itself an RPG these days on consoles is a mashy action-RPG (handhelds, however, enjoy an RPG boom). Perhaps they think turn-based RPGs are too "kiddie," or perhaps they think we are all kids ourselves incapable of going .1 seconds without killing something.

What many publishers don't seem to realize is that all of the people who played the Baldur's Gates, Legend of Dragoons, Legend of Legaias, Neverwinter Nights and [insert your favorite PS2 RPG here] did not vanish from the face of the earth around 2006. In fact, the market for them is better than ever before. No longer are they lonely RPG nerds; they are now lonely RPG nerds with disposable incomes! Dragon Age: Origins is enough to prove how viable this market is: the game has sold upwards of 3.2 million copies. Dragon Age II has only cracked one million, a quarter of which were hopeful pre-orders. What happened? EA/Bioware alienated the very @#%^ing people who made the franchise a success in the first place by targeting a completely different audience.

Why did EA/Bioware do this?

Because Call of Duty was making more money.

Oh, yeah, they think, OH, they think targeting the fickle casuals and the "hardcore" shooter crowd will turn a nice profit. As if they are all just wallets with eyes that gravitate towards the bloodiest, flashiest, sexiest thing on a Gamestop shelf. And here's what blows my mind: EA already owns a competitor to Call of Duty in its own genre. Why must this publisher drag down every other IP in a wrongheaded pursuit of the non-RPG crowd, especially when the actual RPG crowd--which has never gone away, which has more money to spend on RPGs than ever before, and which numbers in the millions--has made their presence abundantly clear with the success of DA:O? Or Demon's Souls? Or, sh*t, look at Atlus' Persona team: they made a puzzle game! In a cave! With a bunch of scraps! And it is a financial success! And it also comes highly recommended by me!

Point is, these publishing giants need to stop hammering a single market with all of their subordinate developers. Everyone's been focused on streamlining, casualizing and targeting CoD's audience while all of us--the old school consumers in our 20s and 30s--languish on our piles of unspent money.

Quote:
Oh and btw, isn't The 3rd Birthday on the psp considered a follow-up to Parasite Eve? It has Aya Brea in it.....

It is. They dropped the Resident Evil style of PE2 for a full-blown TPS.

The game is not very good.

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 8:15am by Almalexia


Note to self: do not write replies when you're too tired, you'll leave critical information out (or you completely forget what you wanted to say and didn't notice it missing) :p

I'll rewrite that bit of text, hope my thoughts are better conveyed (sp?) now. In fact, I wholeheartedly agree with you. And yes, now the meaning should be clearer and not stuffed with contradictions :s sorry for that....



Edited, Sep 21st 2011 4:29pm by MonarctheFirst
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#55 Sep 21 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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sandpark wrote:
The main things I think rpg developers need to remember is:
1. You're going to get complaints.
Fixed your whole post for you.
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#56Ostia, Posted: Sep 21 2011 at 1:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Good post :P
#57 Sep 21 2011 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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lolgaxe wrote:
sandpark wrote:
The main things I think rpg developers need to remember is:
1. You're going to get complaints.
Fixed your whole post for you.


F you and your amazing simplicity skills... ^.~
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#58 Sep 22 2011 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
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Let's see SE, gave us bald faced lies about the game. Proceeded to ignore legitimate complaints during the beta. Then released a game that a six year old would have known wasn't ready.

If anyone at SE was seriously thinking any of the above were godd ideas, they need to get their heads checked. Preferably after they were fired for being incompetent idiots.
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#59 Sep 22 2011 at 12:44 AM Rating: Default
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well they did give tanaka the axe. i doubt he's having his head examined though.


Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 2:44am by Llester
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#60 Sep 22 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Tanaka was just reassigned to FFXI (quietly).... He got no axe.

Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 3:27pm by RattyBatty
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#61 Sep 26 2011 at 2:50 AM Rating: Decent
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se is killing the series. i started my love affair with the ff series at age 10. ive played them all . honestly after ffviii they went down hill. after three horrid games and a great mmo their was a glimmer of hope in ffxii but ffxiii stomped on it.
xenosaga had nothing to do with se it might have started at se but it went with the designer when he left. that was a namco game. noware did squaresoft or square-enix appear on it. im sure if it did the game whould have ended up on the cutting room floor.
what i liked sooo much about the final fantasy series was game mechanics, story line, and style. i loved the materia system in ffvii, and you know by the black pointy hat that your dealing with a blm. or the white cloak trimmed in red that its a whm. you remember things like when sephiroth ran through aerith. or the frikkin epic quote in the beginning and the end of ffviii. "I'll be waiting for you. If you come here, you'll find me."- squall.(my hair still stands on end when i see it ). or the rood inverse on sydneys back in vagrant story. ( wich turned into a great tatoo for me ) you remeber how badass shadow(ffvi) was as a ninja and then worked day and night to get the utsusemi: ichi scroll so you too could be the same.
being a se fan, i do feel disenfranchised.
please square-enix. bring back the game quality i loved so much over the past 24 years.
#62 Sep 26 2011 at 4:41 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Tanaka was just reassigned to FFXI (quietly).... He got no axe.


Where his tainted touch is starting to show up again already, a more or less contented playerbase raged at the last update he was in charge of. I really wish they would sack that guy.

Edited, Sep 26th 2011 7:30am by Runespider
#63 Sep 26 2011 at 10:01 AM Rating: Good
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Kierk wrote:
What a dumb thread...

We all know there's at least going to be a FFXXVII:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE3oHCfQTxk


Yes but question is will they be a flop and has SE learnt their lesson from the latest games. Two big games released with Final Fantasy in the title and both criticised heavily. People lost faith and others are questioning theirs (like me).

I remember buying the games and I had a lot of anticipation.

The last two games I purchased were not what i thought and now I do not feel the same. Which means I might not actually buy the next FF big releases.

Star Wars Prequels comes to mind, we watched and brought them for the sake of it but will I feel the same about the new games coming?
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#64 Sep 26 2011 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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Lonix wrote:

Yes but question is will they be a flop and has SE learnt their lesson from the latest games. Two big games released with Final Fantasy in the title and both criticised heavily. People lost faith and others are questioning theirs (like me).

I remember buying the games and I had a lot of anticipation.

The last two games I purchased were not what i thought and now I do not feel the same. Which means I might not actually buy the next FF big releases.

Star Wars Prequels comes to mind, we watched and brought them for the sake of it but will I feel the same about the new games coming?


Even though it was a joke, (and ironically Deus EX:HR was a great game) I too was extremely disappointed in SE after the last two Final Fantasies came out.

And although I think its a mix of the games actually being bad and me growing up and away from JRPGS, I can comfortably make an objective argument though that both games are probably the worst of the series. And I think it does have a lot to do with bad management and direction.

Like most things in life I think we're beginning to see the pendulum swing back towards the middle, in regards to the changes being made in FFXIII-2 and FFXIV, as well as the exciting changes in FFXI.

But what we might see (especially if things go further south) is a restructuring of SE back to Square; a la Netflix or HP and have that division focus on a few titles; rather than be lost in a sea of mobile development, poor planning, money grabbing, and more garbage.
#65 Sep 26 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Decent
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To be honest, I think SE has lost it's touch. I don't see FFXIV coming out on top, even though I hope it will be. And all the XIII's aren't going to cut it in my opinion. Any XIII follow-up has to be so **** good and awesome if I would even be willing to consider buying it. And all the FFVII spin-offs were a joke too. I mean come on, Crisis Core? Woo, random slots! Talk about non-interaction. They started to ***** up FFXI with the increase of the level caps beyond 75 as a countermeasure to not supporting the game properly for over 3 years. Yes, I liked the Storylines from Wings of the Goddess and to be honest, the music was very good. I still play it often, all soundtracks from FFXI for that matter. But rehashing old areas because of the PS2 storage limitations? Give me a break. Abyssea is a big joke too. Way to go getting more people in less areas at the same time. FFXI will only seem more empty. I would even go as far as saying that SE killed JRPG as we know it alltogether. And no, I don't like Monster Hunter >.>

And apart from the music, visuals + monster hunts, FFXII was a boring game.
No I think SE is done.
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#66 Sep 26 2011 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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Runespider wrote:
Quote:
Tanaka was just reassigned to FFXI (quietly).... He got no axe.


Where his tainted touch is starting to show up again already, a more or less contented playerbase raged at the last update he was in charge of. I really wish they would sack that guy.

Edited, Sep 26th 2011 7:30am by Runespider



Maybe I'm alone in this sentiment. They shouldn't fire Tanaka, they should put his original team back on another Chrono game. (But yes, get him off of MMOs, please!)

Edited, Sep 26th 2011 8:05pm by UltKnightGrover
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#67 Sep 27 2011 at 12:19 AM Rating: Default
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MonarctheFirst wrote:
To be honest, I think SE has lost it's touch. I don't see FFXIV coming out on top, even though I hope it will be. And all the XIII's aren't going to cut it in my opinion. Any XIII follow-up has to be so **** good and awesome if I would even be willing to consider buying it. And all the FFVII spin-offs were a joke too. I mean come on, Crisis Core? Woo, random slots! Talk about non-interaction. They started to ***** up FFXI with the increase of the level caps beyond 75 as a countermeasure to not supporting the game properly for over 3 years. Yes, I liked the Storylines from Wings of the Goddess and to be honest, the music was very good. I still play it often, all soundtracks from FFXI for that matter. But rehashing old areas because of the PS2 storage limitations? Give me a break. Abyssea is a big joke too. Way to go getting more people in less areas at the same time. FFXI will only seem more empty. I would even go as far as saying that SE killed JRPG as we know it alltogether. And no, I don't like Monster Hunter >.>

And apart from the music, visuals + monster hunts, FFXII was a boring game.
No I think SE is done.


FFXII Was an awesome game cut short. dont speak blasphemy about it
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#68 Sep 27 2011 at 2:02 AM Rating: Good
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Tanaka has always been the producer of FFXI. Don't confound it with director.
#69 Sep 27 2011 at 4:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Tanaka has always been the producer of FFXI. Don't confound it with director.


Only on paper, it was very obvious someone else was actually doing his job while he gave FFXIV his full attention. Anyone that played FFXI for a long time can see his influence on the last XI update after being very publicly replaced on XIV.
#70 Sep 27 2011 at 7:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Ostia wrote:
MonarctheFirst wrote:
To be honest, I think SE has lost it's touch. I don't see FFXIV coming out on top, even though I hope it will be. And all the XIII's aren't going to cut it in my opinion. Any XIII follow-up has to be so **** good and awesome if I would even be willing to consider buying it. And all the FFVII spin-offs were a joke too. I mean come on, Crisis Core? Woo, random slots! Talk about non-interaction. They started to ***** up FFXI with the increase of the level caps beyond 75 as a countermeasure to not supporting the game properly for over 3 years. Yes, I liked the Storylines from Wings of the Goddess and to be honest, the music was very good. I still play it often, all soundtracks from FFXI for that matter. But rehashing old areas because of the PS2 storage limitations? Give me a break. Abyssea is a big joke too. Way to go getting more people in less areas at the same time. FFXI will only seem more empty. I would even go as far as saying that SE killed JRPG as we know it alltogether. And no, I don't like Monster Hunter >.>

And apart from the music, visuals + monster hunts, FFXII was a boring game.
No I think SE is done.


FFXII Was an awesome game cut short. dont speak blasphemy about it

Why? because its true? sorry but the game was a disappointment and not just to me. I know far more people who hate the game above those who love it. Which is very weird for a FF Game.

On another note.
A small article on IGN shows that SE admitted that XIV damaged SE.
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#71 Sep 27 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Lonix wrote:
Ostia wrote:
MonarctheFirst wrote:
To be honest, I think SE has lost it's touch. I don't see FFXIV coming out on top, even though I hope it will be. And all the XIII's aren't going to cut it in my opinion. Any XIII follow-up has to be so **** good and awesome if I would even be willing to consider buying it. And all the FFVII spin-offs were a joke too. I mean come on, Crisis Core? Woo, random slots! Talk about non-interaction. They started to ***** up FFXI with the increase of the level caps beyond 75 as a countermeasure to not supporting the game properly for over 3 years. Yes, I liked the Storylines from Wings of the Goddess and to be honest, the music was very good. I still play it often, all soundtracks from FFXI for that matter. But rehashing old areas because of the PS2 storage limitations? Give me a break. Abyssea is a big joke too. Way to go getting more people in less areas at the same time. FFXI will only seem more empty. I would even go as far as saying that SE killed JRPG as we know it alltogether. And no, I don't like Monster Hunter >.>

And apart from the music, visuals + monster hunts, FFXII was a boring game.
No I think SE is done.


FFXII Was an awesome game cut short. dont speak blasphemy about it

Why? because its true? sorry but the game was a disappointment and not just to me. I know far more people who hate the game above those who love it. Which is very weird for a FF Game.

On another note.
A small article on IGN shows that SE admitted that XIV damaged SE.


How is that true ? There are far more people who hate FFXIII over FFXII or any FF for that meter, and weird for a FF ? What about FFX-2 Hated by Most.

FFXII was a great game, very open, lots of side quest's, good story(Cut short)
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#72 Sep 28 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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I loved FFXII, the only problem with the game was that the character development was kind of weak.

XIII, now that game had some fundamental game design flaws.
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