Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

[dev1017] Materia and Class/PVP balancingFollow

#1 Sep 20 2011 at 4:59 PM Rating: Excellent
**
929 posts
Another Materia post from Yoshi, but this one discussing class balancing in relation to possible PvP situations and 1H + sheild vs 2H weapon Materia forging. Made a new thread as the topic of Materia and PvP is kind of distinct. Other Zam threads discussing materia can be found:
¤ Details on Materia Craft (basic explanation of system)
¤ New post concerning Materia from Yoshi-P (discussing Materia and Unique/Untradables)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/22225-dev1017-Materia-crafting-system-Materia-A-Matter-of-Mystery-(08-26-2011)?p=346378#post346378

Bayonne wrote:

Yoshida made a post this morning in regards to balancing out the number of materia slots across different class/jobs, as well as future PvP. Take a gander.


Naoki_Yoshida wrote:

Hi, this is Yoshida, the producer/director.

I plan on responding little by little, but let me start with this topic which I am a big fan of…^^;


This would mean that gladiators, conjurers, and thaumaturges will be able to add on an additional Materia. Unless it is "Materia that can only be equipped on shields and only affects shields," a gap will emerge. Yoshida has previously stated that he would like to incorporate PvP, and I would like PvP in a coliseum or similar venue. However, if this happens, wouldn’t the gap caused by additional Materia be too wide to overcome? Wouldn’t this upset the balance?
Let me start off by mentioning that there have been differences in locations for enchant systems in other MMOs that I used to play religiously. For example, classes with shields will be able to equip a one-handed weapon and shield, so they will have an extra location to equip Materia. However, for two-handed weapons, there will be more types of Materia with higher status boosts available for use, so we are working on balancing the total enhancement, rather than strictly the number of enhancements.


The balance between classes and jobs is being calculated with this in mind, so there will not be any significant gaps. (As you guessed, Materia for shields will be balanced so that they only benefit shield classes/jobs.)

The armory system is difficult to adjust, but we plan on adjusting one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons, and dual wielding swords once the battle system is revamped. However, differences between the weapons are inevitable, so we plan on working towards balancing classes/jobs with that in mind.

As such, from the beginning of Materia implementation, we plan on being careful about the balance between classes when adjusting effects and their limits.

In PvP, fighting with complete equality would be very boring. Recently, games are designed so that individuality exists in addition to player skills. Even in FPSs, skills grow based on the opponents kill count. In MMORPGs where multiple classes and jobs exist, each class/job has different abilities, attacking ranges, HP, and durability ratings based on these differences. Therefore players play with pride, developing their strategies and distributing skill points based on their jobs/classes. Balancing PvP is very difficult, but this is something that I enjoy, so I will do my best to maintain balance while implementing Materia.

…wow, that was a major digression.

As a PvPer myself, it makes me very happy that you guys have an interest in PvP
However, the grass is always greener on the other side. Competitions of whose grass is greener may just be another aspect in the joys of PvPing. Just kidding…




Edited, Sep 20th 2011 7:05pm by Magnesium02
#2 Sep 20 2011 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
***
3,962 posts
Hopefully talking about the battle revamps here means they're getting closer, I just hope we see them before the end of Q1 next year.
#3 Sep 20 2011 at 6:28 PM Rating: Good
Naoki_Yoshida wrote:
The armory system is difficult to adjust, but we plan on adjusting one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons, and dual wielding swords once the battle system is revamped.

That caught my eye... :)
____________________________
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#4 Sep 21 2011 at 3:04 AM Rating: Decent
he had me a DUAL WIELD.

now i can finally make lalafell mince pie

now if only i can get a giant 2 handed hammer i can make the patties

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 5:04am by quilens
____________________________
#5 Sep 21 2011 at 5:42 AM Rating: Good
quilens wrote:
he had me a DUAL WIELD.

now i can finally make lalafell mince pie

now if only i can get a giant 2 handed hammer i can make the patties

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 5:04am by quilens


:O Nuuu why chu wan hurt lalas. T.T
____________________________
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#6 Sep 23 2011 at 3:15 AM Rating: Decent
Indeed I too at dual wield ..... two swords and the jobs that use them ...discuss..lol
#7 Sep 23 2011 at 4:47 AM Rating: Default
*
215 posts
I am really excited about the PVP aspect of the game. I think it will bring new players to the game if he can introduce something strong. And given that it is one of his favorite aspects of mmorpgs I believe he will give us something ultimately (maybe not initially) something much larger than Colosseum type pvp. I want to see companies battle it out. or better, a personal company system, so we can let our own companies battle it out, (and perhaps the personal companies need to have allegiance to a grand company)
#8 Sep 23 2011 at 12:23 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
551 posts
zuogehaomeng wrote:
I am really excited about the PVP aspect of the game. I think it will bring new players to the game if he can introduce something strong. And given that it is one of his favorite aspects of mmorpgs I believe he will give us something ultimately (maybe not initially) something much larger than Colosseum type pvp. I want to see companies battle it out. or better, a personal company system, so we can let our own companies battle it out, (and perhaps the personal companies need to have allegiance to a grand company)


You want to see Company's battle it out, you better hope Yoshi either figures out how to optimize the current code, or adds one **** of a server cluster. Otherwise, enjoy the slideshow when you get 30 people in one area.
____________________________



#9 Sep 23 2011 at 1:26 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
**
852 posts
Isn't it a slideshow now getting just anyone to show up?
____________________________
#10 Sep 23 2011 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
**
575 posts
Zorvan wrote:
Otherwise, enjoy the slideshow when you get 30 people in one area.


Wow, some of the servers have more than 30 people playing on them?
#11 Sep 23 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
**
465 posts
I don't care if Yoshida himself has an affinity for PvP, he should realize that the players are craving quality PvE content first and foremost. Do they not have enough PvE ideas? Is simply having people fight each other the easiest way to keep people logged in? Still not loving how much PvP is figuring to influence this game.
____________________________
Lodestone
#12 Sep 23 2011 at 6:08 PM Rating: Excellent
Yes but you have to remember that PvP content draws more people. Not everyone "just" wants PvE, sometimes people won't bother playing a game just because there is no PvP. Looking at it from his perspective, I could see wanting to implement at least a rudimentary PvP system for the "re-launch" just to boost the number of new players. Personally I don't care too much for PvP in MMOs. It's fun I suppose, but I am not really playing for the PvP aspect, personally. On a side note, I tend to not play games that do not have a two-player/multiplayer option. (RPGs excluded). I can see from a marketing stand point that in the beginning they wanted to make a game where every style player (casual/hardcore) and PvE/PvPers and people who liked customization, could find the game enjoyable. The problem is that like in most cases, they tried too hard to please everyone, and only ended up hurting themselves. Now it is more of a case of: "We don't need to please everyone, but offering something like PvP, which is common in a lot of mainstream MMOs, should probably be something we don't ignore."

Just my 2 Gil. What they do with it or not, like I said, doesn't really concern me. In fact I doubt any real PvP content, regardless of what it is, will see any in-game implementation until 1.21 at the earliest.
____________________________
Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost.
Data Center: Primal; Server: Ultros; Free Company: The Kraken Club; Grand Company: The Maelstrom; Chocobo: Kweh
#13 Sep 23 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
**
465 posts
I think it's become more of a focus than having it just to have it. It was the first thing mentioned in their endgame plans - the only other thing was large scale PvE. They continue to talk about it, and here as we're getting ready for Materia, of course it's a whole post from him on balancing the Materia for PvP, and how much he loves PvP.

When are we getting this mythical "large scale PvE" endgame? When are we even going to hear them mention it again, like they do so often with PvP? And is that really the only thing they will offer? (outside of the awesomely epic PvP duels where we react in glorious delayed fashion)..

Edited, Sep 23rd 2011 8:42pm by Coyohma
____________________________
Lodestone
#14 Sep 23 2011 at 7:58 PM Rating: Excellent
***
3,530 posts
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
in the beginning they wanted to make a game where every style player (casual/hardcore) and PvE/PvPers and people who liked customization, could find the game enjoyable. The problem is that like in most cases, they tried too hard to please everyone


Actually, I believe the problem was that they barely tried to please anyone. Seriously: SE launched the game with next to nothing for any kind of player. There was no hard/difficult content; there were no quests; the economy barely worked; crafting and gathering was rudimentary at best; battles were extremely clunky; character growth was broken; classes themselves were a mess; and so on so on. Even today, they basically have [next-to-nothing] + [2 raids]. Anyway, sorry for the little rant, everyone; back to reading (not forums, alas!) for me. (._. )
____________________________
"... he called to himself a wizard, named Gallery, hoping by this means to escape the paying of the fifteen hundred crowns..." (Machen 15)

"Thus opium is pleasing... on account of the agreeable delirium it produces." (Burke para.6)

"I could only read so much for this paper and the syphilis poem had to go."
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 12 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (12)