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Wiki - DoW/M Class Pages Finished - Missing Info Needed.Follow

#1 Sep 20 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
Hello everyone!

After spending all last weekend and the first part of this week working on redesigning the Disciples of War and Magic class pages, I have finally "finished"! Unfortunately, I have had some difficulty getting some information regarding recast times and durations for certain abilities.

If you come across any missing information that you can provide, and know how to edit the Wiki, please feel free to fill it in, making sure to follow the format being used in the tables. (Cast, Recast, and Duration are using a hh:mm:ss system i.e.: 30:00 would be equivalent to 30 minutes.) If you do not know how to edit the Wiki, or don't feel like doing so, then you can post the information here or send it to me via PM.

I did my best to include any pertinent information best suited for the class page. If you think something important should be added, post your thoughts here and I will look into it.

You can find all of the class pages easily through the wiki drop-down menu above, or if you prefer, I have provided links below:

Archer
Conjurer
Gladiator - Missing info needed.
Marauder
Lancer
Pugilist
Thaumaturge - Missing info needed.

I am currently working on designing a format for Disciples of the Hand and Land classes. Of course since they are non-combat they will be a bit different from the combat "template" I used. In fact, if you have any helpful suggestions in that regard, please feel free to PM me (don't post about it here as I want to keep this thread on the topic of the combat class page changes only).

Hope every enjoys the new look, and finds it helpful in their quest for glory on the battlefield. Thanks for everyone's support!

~S.A.

Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 9:04am by StateAlchemist
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#2 Sep 20 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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This thread is Flnished!
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#3 Sep 20 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
Khornette wrote:
This thread is Flnished!

Actually the mistype was 'F I'(capital i) not 'F l' (lowercase l)... I have a bad habit of typing double-capital letters. Please forgive me. orz

Edited, Sep 20th 2011 10:51pm by StateAlchemist
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#4 Sep 20 2011 at 10:25 PM Rating: Good
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I'll tackle the marauder recasts. Just a heads up, there is no Light Swing anymore. Is it okay if I delete it?
#5 Sep 20 2011 at 10:28 PM Rating: Good
Sephrick wrote:
I'll tackle the marauder recasts. Just a heads up, there is no Light Swing anymore. Is it okay if I delete it?

I removed it. :)
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#6 Sep 20 2011 at 10:30 PM Rating: Good
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Wait, this thread is Finnish?!
#7 Sep 20 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
Hulan wrote:
Wait, this thread is Finnish?!

Ei se ole.
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#8 Sep 20 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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#9 Sep 20 2011 at 10:37 PM Rating: Good
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If you don't mind, I'm going to polish up what I know about the LNC recasts and durations. What format should I used for Comrade in Arms' duration? It is technically a debuffing WS. Would you prefer I move it down to the other WSs?

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 12:40am by Hulan
#10 Sep 20 2011 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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So what should we do for abilities with additional effects?

For Warmonger the initial AoE provoke is instant but then there's also a 30 second enmity+ status.
#11 Sep 20 2011 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
Sephrick wrote:
So what should we do for abilities with additional effects?

For Warmonger the initial AoE provoke is instant but then there's also a 30 second enmity+ status.

For an instance like that (as you can see for Taunt on the pugilist page) just list the recast and use -:-- for the duration for now.
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#12 Sep 20 2011 at 11:07 PM Rating: Good
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Hulan wrote:
If you don't mind, I'm going to polish up what I know about the LNC recasts and durations. What format should I used for Comrade in Arms' duration? It is technically a debuffing WS. Would you prefer I move it down to the other WSs?

Comrade is Arms is ranged, doesn't care about your weapon, deals no damage -- it's not a WS, it's an ability (like Conjurer's Purge) that is applied to a target. It has more in common with Second Wind, Provoke and Taunt than it does with a WS.
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#13 Sep 20 2011 at 11:08 PM Rating: Good
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Docent42 wrote:
Hulan wrote:
If you don't mind, I'm going to polish up what I know about the LNC recasts and durations. What format should I used for Comrade in Arms' duration? It is technically a debuffing WS. Would you prefer I move it down to the other WSs?

Comrade is Arms is ranged, doesn't care about your weapon, deals no damage -- it's not a WS, it's an ability (like Conjurer's Purge) that is applied to a target. It has more in common with Second Wind, Provoke and Taunt than it does with a WS.

Fair, but still semantic, the problem still remains that discussing it in terms of "duration" is somewhat misleading. Edit: Actually, on second thought, I would indeed argue that Comrade in Arms is closer to a Weapon Skill than Provoke or Taunt; neither of which use TP. It has much in common with Second Wind, although targeting an enemy does shift it further towards the Weapon Skill end of the spectrum. It is somewhere in the gray zone between the two.

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 1:13am by Hulan
#14 Sep 20 2011 at 11:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hulan wrote:
Fair, but still semantic, the problem still remains that discussing it in terms of "duration" is somewhat misleading.

Unless you stop-watch it, you can't easily tell the duration, then you'd have to build empiric data to support if the duration can be subjected to partial resists and so on -- I'm sure we WANT the information on the wiki, but I suppose it's better to put "--:--" until we know more than just throwing a random number in there, which is why I didn't give the duration of taunt or those when I listed Pugilists' moves.

For that matter, the duration on Trammel, Heavy Trammel, Moonrise and all these would be very welcome, if anyone has time to kill and TP to spare.

Edited, Sep 21st 2011 1:13am by Docent42
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#15 Sep 20 2011 at 11:12 PM Rating: Good
The duration column for abilities is there for abilities that have a fixed duration. In other words, it isn't subject to resists, and has no modifer (i.e. from stats etc.) for any thing like taunt, provoke, poison, comrade in arms, etc... using -:-- is fine
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#16 Sep 20 2011 at 11:23 PM Rating: Good
Sephrick wrote:
So what should we do for abilities with additional effects?

For Warmonger the initial AoE provoke is instant but then there's also a 30 second enmity+ status.

Actually let me ask this. Does Warmonger give YOU a status or does it place a status on the target(s)? If it is placed on the targets, can you verify a fixed duration across a range of mob families of different levels (compared to your level) or does it vary?
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#17 Sep 21 2011 at 12:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Sephrick wrote:
So what should we do for abilities with additional effects?

For Warmonger the initial AoE provoke is instant but then there's also a 30 second enmity+ status.

Actually let me ask this. Does Warmonger give YOU a status or does it place a status on the target(s)? If it is placed on the targets, can you verify a fixed duration across a range of mob families of different levels (compared to your level) or does it vary?



It gives the player a status that increases the enmity generated by all actions while under it's effect. It's a red icon with a dragon in it.
#18 Sep 21 2011 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
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I filled in the missing recast/durations for Archer, and added some clarifying text to abilities/weaponskills. Also experimentally verified that basic attacks don't reset your autoattack timer, at least on archer.
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#19 Sep 21 2011 at 5:25 AM Rating: Good
Sephrick wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Sephrick wrote:
So what should we do for abilities with additional effects?

For Warmonger the initial AoE provoke is instant but then there's also a 30 second enmity+ status.

Actually let me ask this. Does Warmonger give YOU a status or does it place a status on the target(s)? If it is placed on the targets, can you verify a fixed duration across a range of mob families of different levels (compared to your level) or does it vary?



It gives the player a status that increases the enmity generated by all actions while under it's effect. It's a red icon with a dragon in it.

Ah ok then. Then how it is is fine ill tweak how it looks for aesthetics sake.
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#20 Sep 21 2011 at 5:33 AM Rating: Good
Tsuuga wrote:
I filled in the missing recast/durations for Archer, and added some clarifying text to abilities/weaponskills. Also experimentally verified that basic attacks don't reset your autoattack timer, at least on archer.


Thanks for filling in the missing information. As far as some of the information you added to the weapon skills, I have removed it for now. You posting the information about incapacitation made me think. I believe I might add a sub-section to the Weapon Skills sections on the class pages for this. From what I know about incapacitation of specific body areas, is that it isn't guarenteed (correct?)...however the information is still important so I will work on that as soon as I get a chance. Also as far as the damage information about Bloodletter, (which I removed as well) if you want to repost it as a comment on the Bloodletter page itself (or edit the wiki page for Bloodletter and list the information there) that would be great, I just feel like if we go into too many specifics about every little thing on the class page it will become too cluttered and the tables will look sloppy.
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#21 Sep 21 2011 at 5:37 AM Rating: Good
Docent42 wrote:
the duration on Trammel, Heavy Trammel, Moonrise and all these would be very welcome, if anyone has time to kill and TP to spare.

When posting information like his, make sure that you go to the page for the weapon skill itself. Posting a comment there or editing the weapon skills wiki page with information like this is fine as long as you have some way of backing up any claims.
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#22 Sep 21 2011 at 8:59 PM Rating: Good
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Finally managed to get my laptop somewhat working again (/angry @ Toshiba) and got you most of the duration/recast for gladiator up there.
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#23 Sep 21 2011 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
Thank you Docent, you've been a big help. Any particular reason for not having the information on Cover or Obsess? (Just curious...)
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#24 Sep 21 2011 at 10:41 PM Rating: Good
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Wasn't in a party or fighting; (need a friendly target for cover) or wasn't fighting anything (need an enemy target for obsess)

I just logged a few minutes because my laptop is still not behaving very well and I'm trying to find out if something ELSE than one of my stick of RAM fried.
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#25 Sep 21 2011 at 11:20 PM Rating: Good
Docent42 wrote:
Wasn't in a party or fighting; (need a friendly target for cover) or wasn't fighting anything (need an enemy target for obsess)

I just logged a few minutes because my laptop is still not behaving very well and I'm trying to find out if something ELSE than one of my stick of RAM fried.

oh ok. fried ram... sounds like it could be good or bad depending on whether your talking about food or electronics.
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#26 Sep 22 2011 at 12:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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I added in missing duration/recast info for Lancer.

Also added in HP/MP costs for some abilities.

Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 12:44am by Kirby
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#27 Sep 22 2011 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
Thank you Kirby. All we need now is the tiny bit of missing info on Gladiator, and the information on Thaumaturge.

Also I am not sure who made the comment on Seismic Strike. However noting that an "elemental weapons skill never misses" is kind of like saying casting a spell like Banish, or Fire, never misses. You cant describe it in terms of hitting and missing. It has to be described in terms of magic resistance. (Besides technically it does "miss"...all flying targets.

I removed the comment from the pugilist page, however if you would like to comment the same information on the Seismic Shock page, that is completely fine.
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#28 Sep 22 2011 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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That was me -- it should probably go into the ability itself, but since there's so many elemental WS across every job, I felt it would a good idea to teach players that those moves never miss.

Luminous Spire, Seismic Shock, Red Lotus, Iron Tempest, and so on -- all moves that cost MP and TP will never miss.

Of course, Iron Tempest will always "miss" enemies who are too close to you (Eye of the Cyclone effect, just like Arrow Helix), and Seismic Shock cannot hit flying enemies, but you will never see "Evade" or "Miss" on those attacks. I don't believe you can get any kind of resists either (and thus deal partial or 0 damage).

But like you said, it probably should go into the ability page, instead. I have been planning to add some comments to every ability I own, because I'm tired to ask myself "hmm, what does this do?", check the page and see that no one ever posted about it.
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#29 Sep 22 2011 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
Intermission:

State, rate your posts. At least rate the ones that you think other people would rate up. Remember, we can't rate you now. I know it sounds trivial, and it probably is, but I hate seeing hard work and insight being just 'good'.

Intermission End
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#30 Sep 22 2011 at 10:11 AM Rating: Excellent
I would prefer to be known as "The Humble Pie Alchemist"
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#31 Sep 22 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
Intermission:

State, rate your posts. At least rate the ones that you think other people would rate up. Remember, we can't rate you now. I know it sounds trivial, and it probably is, but I hate seeing hard work and insight being just 'good'.

Intermission End


Fixed that for him Smiley: thumbsup
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#32 Sep 22 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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I reset his Karma to max, so every post from now on should be Excellent Smiley: nod
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#33 Sep 22 2011 at 10:15 AM Rating: Excellent
Wint wrote:
Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
Intermission:

State, rate your posts. At least rate the ones that you think other people would rate up. Remember, we can't rate you now. I know it sounds trivial, and it probably is, but I hate seeing hard work and insight being just 'good'.

Intermission End


Fixed that for him Smiley: thumbsup

><

Edit: I should rate my self down until I am auto-sub-defaulted. Smiley: lol

Edited, Sep 22nd 2011 12:16pm by StateAlchemist
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#34 Sep 22 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Wint wrote:
Admiral Lubriderm wrote:
Intermission:

State, rate your posts. At least rate the ones that you think other people would rate up. Remember, we can't rate you now. I know it sounds trivial, and it probably is, but I hate seeing hard work and insight being just 'good'.

Intermission End


Fixed that for him Smiley: thumbsup

><


I can certainly rate you back down if you want Smiley: tongue
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#35 Sep 25 2011 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Great info but you might want to fix a few things. Gladiator doesn't get the skill rage of halone at 30. I think its at lvl 36. Also heavy stab is lvl 30. Most of the lvl 40 skills that are guild mark purchased are actually lvl 30 abilities. I'm not sure if thats something that was changed in an earlier update or not but I just thought I would bring it to your attention. Appreciate the hard work guys keep it up.
#36 Sep 25 2011 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
leomike35 wrote:
Great info but you might want to fix a few things. Gladiator doesn't get the skill rage of halone at 30. I think its at lvl 36. Also heavy stab is lvl 30. Most of the lvl 40 skills that are guild mark purchased are actually lvl 30 abilities. I'm not sure if thats something that was changed in an earlier update or not but I just thought I would bring it to your attention. Appreciate the hard work guys keep it up.

Due to the fact that all abilities/skills etc that are obtained aren't necessarily the same level as its "optimal level" the optimal level is the one each ability is listed as. If there is an ability that can be obtained at an earlier rank, feel free to leave a comment on the page of the ability itself noting the rank at which you can obtain it, and how, if there is any special requirements/costs.
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#37 Sep 27 2011 at 12:03 AM Rating: Decent
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Wint wrote:
I reset his Karma to max, so every post from now on should be Excellent Smiley: nod


I can has?
#38 Sep 27 2011 at 3:44 AM Rating: Good
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Just a quick note, Provoke II is r40, not r36
#39 Sep 27 2011 at 7:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Dorone wrote:
Just a quick note, Provoke II is r40, not r36

Thanks.
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#40 Sep 29 2011 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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Phantom Dart 0:10
Silhouette 0:30
Dark Seal 1&2 0:60
Punishing Barbs 180sec
Initiation 0:60
Emulate 0:60
Blood Rite 1 & 2 0:60
Exaltation 10:00

I checked them this morning. I tried updating the wiki but I'm not confident so someone may want to double check.

Edited, Sep 29th 2011 7:59am by kainsilv
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