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MMORPG.COM re-visits FFXIV.Follow

#1 Sep 27 2011 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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#2 Sep 27 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
(Editor’s Note: This article was written shortly after 1.18 hit, and was held back by convention content. Our apologies on its tardiness, but we feel it’s still relevant to our readers.)


Most people won't see that bit...

I'm soooooo sick of reviews that use nothing but opening cutscenes... it really gives me the impression that they've played a game. And the text in this review doesn't lead me to believe the re-reviewer did anything other than play through an opening sequence.
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#3 Sep 27 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Decent
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LOL @ the white knight commenters from that site.

I think 1.19 will bring some good changes and I actually think the game is a lot better than what the article describes but...but...whatever...

I think waiting for FFXIV has gone past the point of patience into some form of purgatory, I feel like I've been cursed by LeChuck.
#4 Sep 27 2011 at 9:15 AM Rating: Good
I'm finding that article insignificant.
#5 Sep 27 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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I really, really dislike MMORPG.com...and not because of this article alone. I've found their reviews of MMO's to be extremely illogical and they never contain any 'meat' as reference to the complaints they shell out. Most of the review articles are just the author spilling about all the things they dislike with the attempt to actually explain these things.

It's too bad no site out there will really sit down and review this game in an intelligent way. While it's still got a way to go, there has been large changes and entire shifts in game play design that create a much more enjoyable experience. And even with 1.19 right around the corner, they come out with this BS review? This is why I never visit that site anymore.
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#6 Sep 27 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Talk about a complete waste of time. It's obvious that once again, these so-called "reviewers" not only don't play the game, but the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.
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#7 Sep 27 2011 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Talk about a complete waste of time. It's obvious that once again, these so-called "reviewers" not only don't play the game, but the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.


Cmon now. They waited 9 months to release a review. We can hardly take them to task for giving a half-baked, overly quick review. And the game's appraisal up to that point was entirely accurate.
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#8 Sep 27 2011 at 10:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.


To be fair, given what this reviewer listed as the shortcomings of the game and what we know thus far about 1.19, I'm not sure it would have swayed their opinion anyway.

It's obvious they were expecting a NGE and nothing short of that was going to swing it toward a positive.
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#9 Sep 27 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Excellent
hexaemeron wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Talk about a complete waste of time. It's obvious that once again, these so-called "reviewers" not only don't play the game, but the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.


Cmon now. They waited 9 months to release a review. We can hardly take them to task for giving a half-baked, overly quick review. And the game's appraisal up to that point was entirely accurate.


The part that irks me the most is that they clearly stated that the article was written right after 1.18 patch release...that means that 1) They didn't take into account 1.18a/b/c and 2) They didn't care enough to rewrite/mention anything about 1.19.

He keeps going on about how the UI is still horrible, which while it is still not perfect, it is light-years from where it used to be.

He goes on about how everything is too hard/boring/complicated when you first start playing. So what...? They have been working on fixing the game! They have plans to make tutorials and what not for beginning players, but they don't care about all that stuff right now. They aren't actively trying to increase the player base at the moment. Once they get done with the major changes, then they can sit back and examine what to do about making new players feel a bit more comfortable when starting out in Eorzea.

He complains about the grind, and then complains about how fights are too short...so which is it? You want shorter grind or longer battles? Did this guy only play games that allowed you to go from 1-Cap in less then a week? Games that only focused on endgame so that the fact that there was no substance to the game pre-cap could be overlooked?

The fact of the matter is that the article is complete and utter garbage due to the fact that the writer is obviously ignorant of the majority of the game due to not playing it very much, and caring enough about providing any kind of objective review by at least including information on the immanent patch. In fact if the writer cared about how he writes article even the slightest bit he would have realized that publishing a couple month old article, instead of waiting to review the game in a week from now, was a very poor decision.

The comments to the article itself gave me a great laugh.
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#10 Sep 27 2011 at 10:50 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Talk about a complete waste of time. It's obvious that once again, these so-called "reviewers" not only don't play the game, but the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.


Cmon now. They waited 9 months to release a review. We can hardly take them to task for giving a half-baked, overly quick review. And the game's appraisal up to that point was entirely accurate.


The part that irks me the most is that they clearly stated that the article was written right after 1.18 patch release...that means that 1) They didn't take into account 1.18a/b/c and 2) They didn't care enough to rewrite/mention anything about 1.19.

He keeps going on about how the UI is still horrible, which while it is still not perfect, it is light-years from where it used to be.

He goes on about how everything is too hard/boring/complicated when you first start playing. So what...? They have been working on fixing the game! They have plans to make tutorials and what not for beginning players, but they don't care about all that stuff right now. They aren't actively trying to increase the player base at the moment. Once they get done with the major changes, then they can sit back and examine what to do about making new players feel a bit more comfortable when starting out in Eorzea.

He complains about the grind, and then complains about how fights are too short...so which is it? You want shorter grind or longer battles? Did this guy only play games that allowed you to go from 1-Cap in less then a week? Games that only focused on endgame so that the fact that there was no substance to the game pre-cap could be overlooked?

The fact of the matter is that the article is complete and utter garbage due to the fact that the writer is obviously ignorant of the majority of the game due to not playing it very much, and caring enough about providing any kind of objective review by at least including information on the immanent patch. In fact if the writer cared about how he writes article even the slightest bit he would have realized that publishing a couple month old article, instead of waiting to review the game in a week from now, was a very poor decision.

The comments to the article itself gave me a great laugh.


I do not agree with your assessment, though I respect your opinion. Personally, everything the reviewer mentioned rang 100% true to me and things I thought myself while attempting to navigate the game in beta, when I broke down and bought it in December and a few weeks ago still.

Let's revisit this again. They gave the game NINE months to improve before they'd commit to a review. I think that's MORE than fair. And besides, if we're totally honest and candid, it doesn't matter what they're -planning- to do, it matters what's there. And a majority of the criticisms of this game from beta/release are still complaints today, are they not?

They can't give a favorable review based on good intentions.
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#11 Sep 27 2011 at 11:21 AM Rating: Excellent
I don't mind someone saying they still don't like the game. But making uniformed statements is just plain dumb.
Let's break down his article a bit:

Quote:
My major problems with FFXIV when I last played in October, was its simple turgid, needlessly difficult, and downright stupid user interface. Unfortunately little has really changed in this aspect.

I don't know what game he is playing, but it is not FFXIV if he thinks little has changed. It may not be perfect, but saying little has changed is an outright lie.

Quote:
The mouse and keyboard set-up may as well be disregarded as useless and the Windows/360 pad is the best way to play. Clicking for combat is still as difficult, entering combat stance still takes a few seconds to register, and in all, you will be wondering if the software itself is on some sort of tranquiliser as it fumbles and stumbles when you give it any kind of request.

Again I am sure he didn't even know about the mapping changes. I personally don't use a controller, or even a mouse, and have very minor issues with combat or crafting. It also makes me question his PC build/settings/internet connection. WHile I do hear lag complaints across the forums from time-to-time, I haven't encounter any issues along the lines of which he is describing.

Quote:
The self-described “hamlets” on the edge of cities and in the wilderness are nothing more than a collection of brightly coloured tents centered around a floating crystal, and there is nothing to the art direction that cries out “immersion!” The cities all just seem so gorgeously bland, with little in the way of tricking you into believing it as an actual residence for a virtual populace. It seems odd as the games predecessor didn’t suffer from this problem, and one of my hopes was that the new team driving the game would have sought to update this aspect: evidently not.

This is really great. He doesn't even know what a Camp is. Hamlets have no crystals. He also seems to expect the towns to be littered with useless wandering NPCs just to make it feel "populated". And then tries to compare it with FFXI, and based on my time spent in FFXI the NPC dispersal is about the same, so I have no idea what he is even gettign at in this instance. He also obviously has read nothing about the future plans of 1.19 patch or later, since he is ignorant of the plans for Hamlet Defense and the Beastman Camps, etc...
Quote:

The game still exists in a bubble of unashamed grind, the levequests are still available from the twinkling crystalline hubs, obviously made just in case you felt immersed in the game, and there seems so little to really interest the gamer above and beyond gaining levels.

He once again seem oblivious to all the sidequests, guild tasks, levequest changes, content additions, dungeons, upcoming ifrit battle...

Quote:
One of the major problems is that everything still feels fairly boring – the mini-games for professions sting the eyes with tedium, and the combat is little more than pressing “F” left clicking your target, slapping a couple of hotbar abilities and waiting for it all to come to a desperately slow end.

Mini-games are boring...so how do you expect to solve that? Auto-crafting? Seems like a lazy man's excuse to me, let me fill up my inventory with materials and go watch TV for 12 hours, because I shouldn't have to personally work to accomplish anything. And as far as combat goes...so I guess you want to go back to mashing '1'?

Edited, Sep 27th 2011 1:21pm by StateAlchemist
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#12 Sep 27 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know what game he is playing, but it is not FFXIV if he thinks little has changed. It may not be perfect, but saying little has changed is an outright lie.


...well, I play the game pretty much every single day, and I like it. However, most of the things the reviewer mentions are still accurate.

- The UI is bad, and the lag until simple commands are exectued is irritating.
- The immersion is, personal opinion here, is lacking. What exactly were we fighting for... oh yes, some evil empire. Which we were recently told the names of two commanders of. Who is the Emperor? Does he have family? Who killed the Dragon? Why? After more than a year, some answers are long overdue.
- A year was a very long time to fix a lot, and what has been done is still inferior to the standard of games with much lesser budget at launch. They had to do a lot, then there was the earthquake, and many other reasons come to mind. But the point is: just as the customers don't care, neither does the reviewer have to.
- Where the **** is my ability to clear "dead" LS members from my list?

(...)

I could go on indefinitely, but we all know both sides of this discussion. In fact, the forums have been running in circles for a year as well, since there is little change to some very basic problems.
Quote:
Mini-games are boring...so how do you expect to solve that? Auto-crafting? Seems like a lazy man's excuse to me, let me fill up my inventory with materials and go watch TV for 12 hours, because I shouldn't have to personally work to accomplish anything.

Tell me you don't watch TV or the internet during crafting. With a straight face. So where's the difference?

Edited, Sep 27th 2011 2:42pm by Rinsui
#13 Sep 27 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Rinsui wrote:
- The UI is bad, and the lag until simple commands are exectued is irritating.

What simple commands, specifically? Because I keep hearing this very vague general statement like it applies to every single person in the game. There are only two things in the UI that I have any lag with. 1) Retainers. 2) Shops. When I am in combat my skills are used immediately when I press the button. I go into active/passive mouse immediately when I press the button. I synthesize and use crafting abilities immediately when I press the button. Please elaborate, because I am at a loss as to what "simple commands" are so laggy.


Rinsui wrote:
What exactly were we fighting for... oh yes, some evil empire. Which we were recently told the names of two commanders of. Who is the Emperor? Does he have family? Who killed the Dragon? Why?

If he had talked about immersion in this kind of context, I would have been fine with it. Instead he says: "The game still exists in a bubble of unashamed grind, the levequests are still available from the twinkling crystalline hubs, obviously made just in case you felt immersed in the game, and there seems so little to really interest the gamer above and beyond gaining levels. It seems odd as the Final Fantasy series is acclaimed for its engrossing, if somewhat corny, storylines, and those on offer in this entry are truly uninteresting. The opening quests serve as an obligatory annoyance more than anything, and fighting the urge to skip the cut scenes becomes one of the MMO’s greatest challenges."
This tells me nothing save that he obviously didn't delve into ANY of the content, otherwise he would have been asking questions like yours instead of making comments like he did.

Rinsui wrote:
- A year was a very long time to fix a lot, and what has been done is still inferior to the standard of games with much lesser budget at launch. They had to do a lot, then there was the earthquake, and many other reasons come to mind. But the point is: just as the customers don't care, neither does the reviewer have to.

Last time I checked Square Enix didn't say FFXIV is ready yet. It didn't meet the standard to begin with, so they are fixing it, until they are done fixing it, you can't compare it again. You can only look at the game compared to itself one year ago. When SE says: "It's finished! We are charging you again!" Then sure, compare it once more to the rest of the MMOs out there.

Rinsui wrote:
- Where the **** is my ability to clear "dead" LS members from my list?

Once again, no where in his article did he mention anything like this. Which is only further proof that he didn't bother to play the game past the first couple levels. (Considering you can go from 1-10 in less then 15 minutes that is pathetic.) If he had brought up points like this, or the fact that we have no mail system, or functional party search system, etc... I'd would be arguing against that. Instead he makes this kind of comment: "There is still no auction house, but searchable player merchants, little in the way of social interaction, and distinctive lack of forward facing development. Spending time within FFXIV makes you feel like you have gone back in time to play a very needlessly complex EverQuest clone, albeit without the charm."
The auction house vs. market ward debate is still up in the air from what I understand so I am not going to go there, however his comment on "little in the way of social interaction" makes me believe once again that he didn't bother playing for more then 10-15 minutes, if that, because it isn't hard to ask around for a linkshell and make friends. If you aren't socially interacting with people it is either because you are a bad person that no one likes, or you purposefully seclude yourself, neither of which are an excuse to complain about social interaction.

Rinsui wrote:
Quote:
Mini-games are boring...so how do you expect to solve that? Auto-crafting? Seems like a lazy man's excuse to me, let me fill up my inventory with materials and go watch TV for 12 hours, because I shouldn't have to personally work to accomplish anything.

Tell me you don't watch TV or the internet during crafting. With a straight face. So where's the difference?

I only watch anime when I craft, and only if it is something that I can standard spam with maybe a 1% chance of failure(stockpiling shards or a specific material needed for skilling up). Most of the time that is not the case. The majority of time I spend crafting is skilling up. This being the case, I tend to be doing difficult synths that actually require my attention. In this case I play some music, talk to friends on line, or occasionally take a break and swing over to the forums.
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#14 Sep 27 2011 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
Tell me you don't watch TV or the internet during crafting. With a straight face. So where's the difference


Well one difference would be that it separates those willing to put the (granted, repetitive) effort into levelling a craft from those unwilling to take much of any effort to do so.
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#15 Sep 27 2011 at 2:13 PM Rating: Good
Since this review got it so wrong why not have a forum competition?

1. have ZAM forum visitors that have been playing this game for longer than 5 minutes write an unbiased review semd them into the forum admin of choice.
2. Form Admin reads the reviews and then compiles the 5 best ones to create one definitive review.
3. that review can then be sent to lazy sites like MMORPG with a note attached stating "a real review by players that spent more then 5 mins playing the game and thought your review sucked major ***".

That being said if this idea is liked and goes ahead try to leave your bias at the door and be objective. and base it on your actual joys and frustrations with FFXIV.

#16 Sep 27 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Excellent
FlogginaDeadHorse wrote:
Since this review got it so wrong why not have a forum competition?

1. have ZAM forum visitors that have been playing this game for longer than 5 minutes write an unbiased review semd them into the forum admin of choice.
2. Form Admin reads the reviews and then compiles the 5 best ones to create one definitive review.
3. that review can then be sent to lazy sites like MMORPG with a note attached stating "a real review by players that spent more then 5 mins playing the game and thought your review sucked major ***".

That being said if this idea is liked and goes ahead try to leave your bias at the door and be objective. and base it on your actual joys and frustrations with FFXIV.


I like it.
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#17 Sep 27 2011 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
What simple commands, specifically? Because I keep hearing this very vague general statement like it applies to every single person in the game. There are only two things in the UI that I have any lag with.

Laggy commands: retainers, shops, inventory management (dropping items), loot distribution window, trade window (horrible lag there!). Basically anything where something changes hands. In any case: something that happens too often to be present after one year of tuning.

Quote:
If he had talked about immersion in this kind of context, I would have been fine with it. Instead he says: (...) This tells me nothing save that he obviously didn't delve into ANY of the content, otherwise he would have been asking questions like yours instead of making comments like he did.

So your critique is that he didn't play long enough to reach a point where the real dimensions of hollowness become visible? Technically, you may be right about that; I just doubt it is an observation that would sway future customers to buy the game.

Quote:
Last time I checked Square Enix didn't say FFXIV is ready yet. It didn't meet the standard to begin with, so they are fixing it, until they are done fixing it, you can't compare it again.

Well, I guess the author considered the one-year mark a good time for a re-review. Because even if SE fixes the game in 2014, nobody will care anymore.

Quote:
Rinsui wrote:
- Where the **** is my ability to clear "dead" LS members from my list?

Once again, no where in his article did he mention anything like this. Which is only further proof that he didn't bother to play the game past the first couple levels.

So what. Shall we blame him for not pointing out more flaws?

Quote:
If you aren't socially interacting with people it is either because you are a bad person that no one likes, or you purposefully seclude yourself, neither of which are an excuse to complain about social interaction.

Hmm. I think it's partially the game designer's duty to provide opportunities for social interaction (that go beyond 3-minute Behest parties). However, yes, having no real intent to stay in the game may have limited his willingness to engage other players to form long-lasting bonds. Point taken.

Quote:
The majority of time I spend crafting is skilling up. This being the case, I tend to be doing difficult synths that actually require my attention.

Agreed, a certain level of attention s required. But even with difficult synths, the amount of brainpower you need pales in comparison to the amount of time you spend doing that brainless repetitive activity. It's just brainless. No challenge whatsoever. Nil. Just tedious. Because you actually have to watch what abilities pop up. With one eye. While the other one watches anime.

Or, in short: Not all of his petty points are perfectly appropriate due to his parsimonious perspective. All-in-all, however, I argue he affords an articulately accurate account of what awaits a new adventurer after playing for the first days or weeks. Which paints a pretty sad picture of a game that had quite some time to weed out some extremely simple yet essential flaws that still persist past the one year mark.
#18 Sep 27 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Excellent
Rinsui wrote:
All-in-all, however, I argue he affords an articulately accurate account of what awaits a new adventurer after playing for the first days or weeks.

How can it portray what awaits a new player after playing for the first few days or weeks. If a new player plays for one day, bothers to even try to make some friends, hopefully ones that don't mind answering a few questions, he can get to level 20. 10 At the very bare minimum (takes 15 minutes). In one week, even if you only played on the weekend, you can get to level 25. Oh wait...what's this? There is a quite a few main storyline missions I can do? There are Grand Company Quests I can do? There's a Guild Quest I can do? There are Dungeons with Boss NM fights? After a couple weeks, a new player would have enough to do to keep him busy for a while. And that doesn't even take into account the stuff coming in 1.19. It is so obvious that he didn't play for a few days or weeks. Maybe long enough to go through the opening cutscene, walk around town a little bit, run out side and hit a couple mobs...and then strolled back to his PC to write this "article".
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#19 Sep 27 2011 at 5:52 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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MMORPG.com wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprising before this one was finally pronounced “dead on arrival”.
Cannot into grammar?

As much as I love sh*tting on this game, this was a pretty dull article. Though I still don't care that "1.19 is coming soon". The next will always be just around the corner, each one promising to finally turn the corner on the game.
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#20 Sep 27 2011 at 6:18 PM Rating: Excellent
bsphil wrote:
MMORPG.com wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprising before this one was finally pronounced “dead on arrival”.
Cannot into grammar?

As much as I love sh*tting on this game, this was a pretty dull article. Though I still don't care that "1.19 is coming soon". The next will always be just around the corner, each one promising to finally turn the corner on the game.


I'm not sure why anyone would expect a sharp turnaround of the game. It will never happen. THe game is making a gradual u-tutn and heading towards the right direction. Not some kind of stunt man action movie "bust a 180 i nthe middle of traffic" thing. lol
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#21 Sep 27 2011 at 6:23 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
bsphil wrote:
MMORPG.com wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprising before this one was finally pronounced “dead on arrival”.
Cannot into grammar?
THe game is making a gradual u-tutn and heading towards the right direction.
Smiley: oyvey
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#22 Sep 27 2011 at 6:27 PM Rating: Excellent
bsphil wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
bsphil wrote:
MMORPG.com wrote:
I wouldn’t be surprising before this one was finally pronounced “dead on arrival”.
Cannot into grammar?
THe game is making a gradual u-tutn and heading towards the right direction.
Smiley: oyvey

give me a break im tired and not feeling well
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#23 Sep 27 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
Fact is, logging on a year later, regardless of which update, the game still feels the same... but a touch smoother. That's it. Ya the UI is light years ahead now... but ahead of utter crap, so wasn't hard to improve on, and even then it's still pretty crappy. My friends and I keep coming back to check it out, and we all leave within 30min to an 1 hour. Should we give it more time, maybe, but if everything feels the same, what's the point, it won't sway your decision.

I'm pretty sure every site/ magazine that will re-review this game will be along these lines regardless of the patch, and everytime we'll complain: "But the NEXT patch will fix a lot of things!" We just have to accept that it'll be a long LONG time before mechanics are completely changed in this game for reviewers to go... ya, this is decent.
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#24 Sep 27 2011 at 7:41 PM Rating: Excellent
The point is no one has any business reviewing the game right now. It the same as if you got into a major car accident and sent your car to a shop to be fixed. Checking in on it every 5 seconds doesn't do any good. It doesn't matter if they replaced one part, or fixed another. If the car is still broken, it is still broken. Once it is finished being fixed and you go to pick it up, if there is something still wrong with it then raise some ****. Until SE is done fixing the game, it doesn't matter if it has been a week, month, or a year. Writing a review/article/blog/anything that looks at the game from a new players perspective is pointless because the game is still broken, regardless of the fact that many things have been addressed/fixed/or is coming in the next patch.
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#25 Sep 27 2011 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
The point is no one has any business reviewing the game right now. It the same as if you got into a major car accident and sent your car to a shop to be fixed. Checking in on it every 5 seconds doesn't do any good. It doesn't matter if they replaced one part, or fixed another. If the car is still broken, it is still broken. Once it is finished being fixed and you go to pick it up, if there is something still wrong with it then raise some ****. Until SE is done fixing the game, it doesn't matter if it has been a week, month, or a year. Writing a review/article/blog/anything that looks at the game from a new players perspective is pointless because the game is still broken, regardless of the fact that many things have been addressed/fixed/or is coming in the next patch.


Okay, so I know you really are onboard the whole FFXIV thing. You're a mod, you wanted to paint your car in some sort of FFXIV theme. We get it. You're a lifer. That's awesome you can find so much fun in something most people wouldn't expend the energy or thought to even throw away.

However, that being said. You -still- seem to be missing the point that the game was released, and MMORPG.com waited NINE times longer than SE requested no one to review the game. You want to talk about no business reviewing the game NOW? They were downright charitable waiting as long as they did, and the only reason I can see you getting butthurt about it is that the reality is that to most people, the changes are so few and far between, or possibly that they are so random and surface that the game really doesn't feel any different.

It doesn't feel much different to me and "allegedly" all these changes have supposedly been done. I've read the patch notes. I follow the forums. I know the score. I also know this game is moving like an earthworm when it should be moving like a cheetah.

I'm sorry if another negative voice has been added to the chorus, but again, do NOT say this game has no business being reviewed NINE months after people gave SE their money. That sentiment is absurd and insulting in the extreme.
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#26 Sep 27 2011 at 8:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
The point is no one has any business reviewing the game right now. It the same as if you got into a major car accident and sent your car to a shop to be fixed. Checking in on it every 5 seconds doesn't do any good. It doesn't matter if they replaced one part, or fixed another. If the car is still broken, it is still broken. Once it is finished being fixed and you go to pick it up, if there is something still wrong with it then raise some ****. Until SE is done fixing the game, it doesn't matter if it has been a week, month, or a year. Writing a review/article/blog/anything that looks at the game from a new players perspective is pointless because the game is still broken, regardless of the fact that many things have been addressed/fixed/or is coming in the next patch.


False, they have every right to review it, weather it's when the game was brand new or nine months later.
#27 Sep 28 2011 at 12:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
The point is no one has any business reviewing the game right now. It the same as if you got into a major car accident and sent your car to a shop to be fixed. Checking in on it every 5 seconds doesn't do any good. It doesn't matter if they replaced one part, or fixed another. If the car is still broken, it is still broken. Once it is finished being fixed and you go to pick it up, if there is something still wrong with it then raise some ****. Until SE is done fixing the game, it doesn't matter if it has been a week, month, or a year. Writing a review/article/blog/anything that looks at the game from a new players perspective is pointless because the game is still broken, regardless of the fact that many things have been addressed/fixed/or is coming in the next patch.


Name one other mmo developer that, upon realizing their game was a failure, drug their knuckles on the ground and had almost nothing to show for their work on "fixing" the game a year later.

The average customer:

does not care about Wada or Tanaka's gross incompetence,

does not care about financial losses of millions of yen due to the game's failure,

does not care about suits blaming each other while they were trying to find someone to take over,

does not care that there were earthquakes,

does not care that Yoshida is the new guy on the block and isn't actually responsible for the majority of the train wreck that is FFXIV.

What does the average customer care about?

That they blew money a year ago on a broken game which is probably sitting on a dusty shelf or in a closet somewhere ( if they haven't already cut their losses and just thrown it in the trash ).

And that's who the reviews are aimed at, the average customer.
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#28 Sep 28 2011 at 1:19 AM Rating: Excellent
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Whales wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.


To be fair, given what this reviewer listed as the shortcomings of the game and what we know thus far about 1.19, I'm not sure it would have swayed their opinion anyway.

It's obvious they were expecting a NGE and nothing short of that was going to swing it toward a positive.


It's almost word for word the same exact review they released last time. ****, it even has the same exact pictures. It's lazy, and as others have said... borderline trolling.

I don't hold it against any site that wants to give this game a bad re-review. It does have major flaws and it IS way behind where it should be considering the time that has passed. However, if you're going to review something and get paid for it, take the time to actually play that something. Show a few screenshots of the new UI, show a few screenshots of the rediculously size increase on the mobs, show a pic of you actually doing something that proves you spent a little time writing the review.
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#29 Sep 28 2011 at 1:31 AM Rating: Good
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The article may not be 100% exact, but the whole notion of
"that game magazine has no business reviewing the game until SE says it's ready"
is utter bullsh*t. People want to know whether the car they are about to buy
comes with brakes now, and not whether brakes will be included sometime later.

Besides, that car has been produced and sold for a whole year now.

And btw: In before someone says "Oh, but it's sooooo unfair to post a review
right before the next big patch." That excuse was used up for the last review
(right before 1.18) already.


Edited, Sep 28th 2011 8:55am by Rinsui
#30 Sep 28 2011 at 5:45 AM Rating: Good
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They do have the right to post on their website whatever they like whenever they like to do it. The point is, why would you bother to spend the time writing a whole new review if it wasn't going to say something new? Why not just let your first review of the game stand? Basically, the review said 'blah, blah... graphics are good and game is a little smoother but pretty much the same'. So why even bother? Maybe they needed another review to meet some quota because this article was un-informative. If they wanted to write a real review of the game as it has changed since launch then they should have torn into specific items that SE has added since release (i.e. raids, quests, auto-attack, leve adjustments)and complained how those things have done little to improve the game in the year since release. I agree with earlier statements, they didn't even have the courtesy to actually dig into the game they just gave the same review that was written a year ago.

I do believe the game needs more work and it needs to happen at a quicker pace then it has for the last 10-12 months (if you count the earthquake).
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#31 Sep 28 2011 at 6:09 AM Rating: Excellent
hexaemeron wrote:
do NOT say this game has no business being reviewed NINE months after people gave SE their money. That sentiment is absurd and insulting in the extreme.

If they want to review it, then review it from a persons point of view that has played it for a year. Like I said before, the game isn't fixed yet, what is the point of saying the game is still broken when that is obvious. Instead touch base on what repairs have been made so far.

Devildawgs wrote:
False, they have every right to review it, weather it's when the game was brand new or nine months later.

You did not read what I said. I specifically said no one has any business reviewing the game right now. I never said no one has the right to. Review it all they want. But it is pointless, unless they are reviewing the changes that have been made, rather then rehashing the stuff that still hasn't been fixed yet while conveniently ignoring everything else that has been done.

Zorvan wrote:
and had almost nothing to show for their work on "fixing" the game a year later.

Don't take offense to this Zorvan, but you haven't even gotten level 25 yet, there is a ton of previously non-existing content awaiting your enjoyment that didn't exist a year ago. How is that "nothing to show"?

Perrin, ****** Superhero wrote:
It's almost word for word the same exact review they released last time. ****, it even has the same exact pictures. It's lazy, and as others have said... borderline trolling.

This.

Rinsui wrote:
People want to know whether the car they are about to buy
comes with brakes now, and not whether brakes will be included sometime later.

FFXIV isn't some shiny new car sitting on the lot enticing you to buy it. It is the aftermath of a train wreck that is still sitting in the body shop getting repaired. When it's fixed it's fixed. Why are you trying to buy a broken car? Go drive a rental and wait for the shop to call you when the car is ready. However claiming no repairs have been made in the last year is ridiculous.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 8:13am by StateAlchemist

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 8:17am by StateAlchemist
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#32 Sep 28 2011 at 6:25 AM Rating: Good
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it's a poorly written article, and i'd be ashamed to 'publish' a review with so many grammatical errors. kind of hard to take the author seriously given that he apparently didn't even bother to use spelling/grammar check.

but all that aside, its still not a very objective article. i rarely play xiv anymore, but even i think this review sounds like it was written by someone who went into the game prepared to hate it.
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#33 Sep 28 2011 at 6:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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[quote=StateAlchemist of Amestris]
FFXIV isn't some shiny new car sitting on the lot enticing you to buy it. It is the aftermath of a train wreck that is still sitting in the body shop getting repaired. When it's fixed it's fixed. Why are you trying to buy a broken car? Go drive a rental and wait for the shop to call you when the car is ready. However claiming no repairs have been made in the last year is ridiculous.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 8:13am by StateAlchemist

Why do I get the feeling it's still going to be a pinto with a corvette bumper when it comes out of the shop? That said, looking forward to next week!


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#34 Sep 28 2011 at 7:00 AM Rating: Excellent
Bakkasan wrote:
Why do I get the feeling it's still going to be a pinto with a corvette bumper when it comes out of the shop? That said, looking forward to next week!

Smiley: lol Nice one.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 9:09am by StateAlchemist
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#35 Sep 28 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:


Zorvan wrote:
and had almost nothing to show for their work on "fixing" the game a year later.

Don't take offense to this Zorvan, but you haven't even gotten level 25 yet, there is a ton of previously non-existing content awaiting your enjoyment that didn't exist a year ago. How is that "nothing to show"?



No offense taken. But the point is, the amount of time to get to this point is far greater than the amount of fixes and content added in that time.

The average mmo gamer is used to devs pushing out patches in days/weeks, not months. Days/weeks = patches/fixes, months = expansions in normal "AAA" mmos.

Sure, someone can argue "But FFXIV has a small dev team doing the best they can!".

My retort is "If S-E were serious about fixing the game, they'd throw every resource they had at it and wouldn't be trying to milk the franchise with 5-6 different singleplayer FF projects while their online newest flagship sinks.".
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#36 Sep 28 2011 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
Zorvan wrote:
The average mmo gamer is used to devs pushing out patches in days/weeks, not months. Days/weeks = patches/fixes, months = expansions in normal "AAA" mmos.

The average MMO gamer isn't playing a game being completely rebuilt from the ground up while it's still available to play online. (Otherwise our servers would be a lot more populated.) Trying to compare FFXIV's patch speed to any other 'AAA' MMOs out there is kinda pointless, considering the other MMOs aren't completely rebuilding their games.
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#37 Sep 28 2011 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
The average mmo gamer is used to devs pushing out patches in days/weeks, not months. Days/weeks = patches/fixes, months = expansions in normal "AAA" mmos.

The average MMO gamer isn't playing a game being completely rebuilt from the ground up while it's still available to play online. (Otherwise our servers would be a lot more populated.) Trying to compare FFXIV's patch speed to any other 'AAA' MMOs out there is kinda pointless, considering the other MMOs aren't completely rebuilding their games.


No other mmo has ever HAD to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Someone might want to let S-E know being the first isn't always a good thing.

And as far as that goes, it makes my point of S-E's severe lack of priorities and seriousness about fixing this game even more glaring.
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#38 Sep 28 2011 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Zorvan wrote:
S-E's severe lack of priorities and seriousness about fixing this game

Please explain. If it wasn't a priority, or if they weren't serious, they would have shut the game down, refunded everyone's money and called it a day. Obviously it was high enough priority, and they were serious enough about it, to give a public apology, cancel subscription fees indefinitely, keep the game running at a loss, change the leadership of the development team, start communicating directly with the player-base, that's just to name a few. You make it sound like they have been doing nothing for the last year.
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#39 Sep 28 2011 at 8:58 AM Rating: Good
Rinsui wrote:
Because even if SE fixes the game in 2014, nobody will care anymore.


I don't think so. When there is a truely fun game available, people will play it.

For one thing, FFXIV is not in danger of becoming technologically obsolete anytime soon. If it becomes the best game of it's type available, no matter how long it takes, people will care. Even better, they will play it.


#40 Sep 28 2011 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
S-E's severe lack of priorities and seriousness about fixing this game

Please explain. If it wasn't a priority, or if they weren't serious, they would have shut the game down, refunded everyone's money and called it a day. Obviously it was high enough priority, and they were serious enough about it, to give a public apology, cancel subscription fees indefinitely, keep the game running at a loss, change the leadership of the development team, start communicating directly with the player-base, that's just to name a few. You make it sound like they have been doing nothing for the last year.


And like I said, if they were serious they'd have EVERY resource on this game. They'd pull artist and programmers from projects like FFX remakes and stick them here, hire more if need be.




Edited, Sep 28th 2011 11:08am by Zorvan
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#41 Sep 28 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Excellent
Zorvan wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
S-E's severe lack of priorities and seriousness about fixing this game

Please explain. If it wasn't a priority, or if they weren't serious, they would have shut the game down, refunded everyone's money and called it a day. Obviously it was high enough priority, and they were serious enough about it, to give a public apology, cancel subscription fees indefinitely, keep the game running at a loss, change the leadership of the development team, start communicating directly with the player-base, that's just to name a few. You make it sound like they have been doing nothing for the last year.


And like I said, if they were serious they'd have EVERY resource on this game. They'd pull artist and programmers from projects like FFX remakes and stick them here, hire more if need be.

So in other words your saying that if a SE was serious they would stop doing anything that made money, and spend more money on FFXIV. Really. That's how businesses go bankrupt.
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#42 Sep 28 2011 at 9:06 AM Rating: Decent
bsphil wrote:
Though I still don't care that "1.19 is coming soon". The next will always be just around the corner, each one promising to finally turn the corner on the game.


Are you pretending that 1.19 is not significant?

Look, it's clear you haven't actually played in while and at this point you no longer really know what you are talking about. The game in it's current state does not deserve the same blanket ambivalence that we all felt in the early stages.

FFXIV is getting better and in some cases there are extremely fun things to be done. This game does NOT play like FFXI, and for that I am grateful. FFXIV, with Yoshida leading, is doing some things right. Ignoring that fact at this point seems purposely obtuse.
#43 Sep 28 2011 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
S-E's severe lack of priorities and seriousness about fixing this game

Please explain. If it wasn't a priority, or if they weren't serious, they would have shut the game down, refunded everyone's money and called it a day. Obviously it was high enough priority, and they were serious enough about it, to give a public apology, cancel subscription fees indefinitely, keep the game running at a loss, change the leadership of the development team, start communicating directly with the player-base, that's just to name a few. You make it sound like they have been doing nothing for the last year.


And like I said, if they were serious they'd have EVERY resource on this game. They'd pull artist and programmers from projects like FFX remakes and stick them here, hire more if need be.

So in other words your saying that if a SE was serious they would stop doing anything that made money, and spend more money on FFXIV. Really. That's how businesses go bankrupt.


Edit: Let's look at this from a PR point of view. A singleplayer game is released and people don't like it, it's a temporary thing. People move on and the game goes into the annals of history.

This being an mmo, and currently online with people playing it, it is an ongoing PR nightmare.

It doesn't just get left behind while everyone moves on and forgets.

Every time someone asks about the state of the game on a gaming site like mmorpg.com or Gamespot or Eurogamer ot wherever, the game is shoved right out there in the forefront as a continuing failure.

The best thing would have been for S-E to actually refund everyone's money and maybe give priority vouchers to try the game again when it was finished and re-released, pull the game offline, and do what they had to do.

Sure, they'd have taken a lot of flack in the media and lost some investors, but they wouldn't have lost much more than they already have and are continuing to lose every day this game operates without any revenue from it coming in. And more importantly, it would have been "that game that failed a last year" rather than "that game that's still failing after a year".

The longer it takes to fix it, the more the game and the company's reputations are damaged.

And I'm sure you've heard one of the cardinal rules of business. It takes money to make money. If they don't have the money to throw at re-building this game in an expedient and efficient manner so that the game can indeed start making them money as soon as possible, then they should not be bothering at all.



Edited, Sep 28th 2011 11:12am by Zorvan

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 11:13am by Zorvan
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#44 Sep 28 2011 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
Zorvan wrote:
The best thing would have been for S-E to actually refund everyone's money and maybe give priority vouchers to try the game again when it was finished and re-released, pull the game offline, and do what they had to do.

Now see that I can relate to(though I am happy they didn't). If that is the route they had chosen to take I would have been upset, but meh, no biggie: "Let me know when your done so I can play already." and I would have dropped the issue and waited. However that isn't what they did, so saying that they should now completely ignore all other on-going projects, which would kill any chance for profit in the near future, just to get FFXIV on-track faster is silly. They would suffer too much financially.
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#45 Sep 28 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
The best thing would have been for S-E to actually refund everyone's money and maybe give priority vouchers to try the game again when it was finished and re-released, pull the game offline, and do what they had to do.

Now see that I can relate to(though I am happy they didn't). If that is the route they had chosen to take I would have been upset, but meh, no biggie: "Let me know when your done so I can play already." and I would have dropped the issue and waited. However that isn't what they did, so saying that they should now completely ignore all other on-going projects, which would kill any chance for profit in the near future, just to get FFXIV on-track faster is silly. They would suffer too much financially.


"We can't properly fund the rebuilding of this game, so we're going to take the time to develop other games to hopefully make enough money to continue funding the rebuild of this game." is something I'd expect to hear from an indy developer who got in over their heads, not an international gaming powerhouse.

And all the while they're using resources to make those other games to afford the resources to rebuild this game, this game continues to lope along in full view of the public.

Delaying those other projects would not suddenly bankrupt S-E. They have other money coming in from their other development houses like Eidos ( S-E has made a veritable fortune of Deus Ex: human revolution, I guarantee you ) along with revenue from games they publish ( like Dungeon Siege 3 ) as well as Final Fantasy XIII-2 ( which, while I wouldn't feel any regret if they delayed/cancelled that one, will be their other major money maker unlike their re-make projects which I have suggested delaying and pulling resources from ).





Edited, Sep 28th 2011 11:44am by Zorvan
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#46 Sep 28 2011 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
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The game still sucks one year later, dunno why people are getting their panty's up in a bunch.
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#47 Sep 28 2011 at 9:59 AM Rating: Good
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As long as the game is still being sold in stores we can only cut SE so much slack. Just because they are still "fixing"
it and its still "not finished" isnt stopping stores from selling it as a retail ready product and not some extended open beta you have to pay to enter. SE hasnt gone out of their way to pull this game off the shelves.
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#48 Sep 28 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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tpgsoldier wrote:
As long as the game is still being sold in stores we can only cut SE so much slack. Just because they are still "fixing"
it and its still "not finished" isnt stopping stores from selling it as a retail ready product and not some extended open beta you have to pay to enter. SE hasnt gone out of their way to pull this game off the shelves.


Now there's a question for someone to hit Wada with.

"You yourself say FFXIV is not a worthy game and say that you won't charge anyone money to play it until it is worthy, yet you are still accepting peoples money to buy the "unworthy" game?"

This falls back to what I said about S-E and their understanding of PR.

Edited, Sep 28th 2011 12:19pm by Zorvan
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#49 Sep 28 2011 at 11:15 AM Rating: Decent
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SmashingtonWho wrote:
[quote=bsphil]Are you pretending that 1.19 is not significant?


To be fair you were responding to the semi-casual troll that is BS Phil. However, he's right. It doesn't matter what site you are, if you're reviewing a game, you're doing so for the duration you reviewed it.

Where he's flawed is that he's not taking into account that the game HAS changed alot more than this re-review gives it credit for. I wouldn't be surprised if BS Phil helped write the review... but the point still stands, 1.19 around the corner isn't relevant as long as the author mentions they know it's coming soon.

TBH the biggest issue I have with this recycled POS review (other than the recycledness ((word?)) of it), is that they neglect to mention that Yoshis team has been pretty transparent and so far has not given empty promises. To me, that's the biggest positive of this entire debacle. Hopefully SE as a whole has learned from this AND how much Yoshis communication has enabled this "paid Beta" to persist. I know if we were playing the silent game of yore, I wouldn't play at all these days. My ideal situation is that SE fixes this game beyond "normal" expecatations within the next 6 months, and then WE as the "paid Beta" community help them in re-promoting the game.
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#50 Sep 28 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah they seem to use an absurd amount anecdotal evidence to support wild claims they make...

For instance he complains that battle is little more than clicking the enemy and attacking. I personally have been in MANY battles where proper skill planning and execution were the cornerstone of my winning or losing.
#51 Sep 28 2011 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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je355804 wrote:
Yeah they seem to use an absurd amount anecdotal evidence to support wild claims they make...

For instance he complains that battle is little more than clicking the enemy and attacking. I personally have been in MANY battles where proper skill planning and execution were the cornerstone of my winning or losing.


Such as?
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