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MMORPG.COM re-visits FFXIV.Follow

#52 Sep 28 2011 at 4:50 PM Rating: Good
hexaemeron wrote:
je355804 wrote:
Yeah they seem to use an absurd amount anecdotal evidence to support wild claims they make...

For instance he complains that battle is little more than clicking the enemy and attacking. I personally have been in MANY battles where proper skill planning and execution were the cornerstone of my winning or losing.


Such as?


Anytime you have a balanced battle. Soloing leves on the highest possible difficulty. Fighting NM's, even more so for Ogre and Batraal. Fighting in SP parties when you are seeking efficiency. Faction NM's. Solo grinding. Even completing Storyline or side quests at the level the become available.

Basically any fight where you are not overpowered for the situation. You can't level from 1-10 and then make blanket statements about the entire battle system's simplicity.
#53 Oct 03 2011 at 8:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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And this is why you only get one launch. Because even if you fix the game later the initial reaction will forever color later reviews. No use complaining about it, this is just how things work and nothing you can do will change that.

Edited, Oct 3rd 2011 11:11pm by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#54 Oct 04 2011 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
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Games now change more rapidly than before. We no longer have minor updates and then only big changes when a full expansion drops. While SE has been trying to fix FFXIV, you've got games like RIFT that have changed more and put out more content in a shorter amount of time; WoW keeps pumping out content as well. GW2 is going to be adding quests regularly and dynamic ones at that. FFXIV just seems to be getting left further and further behind. The worst part is that SE is not willing to invest the resources to get the game on par with other MMOs. Sure, they work Yoshi-P hard (at least it looks and sounds like that) but I don't see them throwing bodies at the game to fix it.. and it's a shame because the game could be epic.
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#55 Oct 04 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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What differences does it make if you kill boss A by using a well planed strategy or just tossing Tanks at it till die drops dead from Dia II. If you have no clue what that means let me simplify. The scale used to measure games was preset by *drum role* WoW and FFXI.. as such any game that tries to diverge from that mold is immediately covered under bad. Rift is a WoW rip off, WoW is a WoW rip off, GW2 (will see) all these games have bent to the mold. As such people play them for 3months and quit to move on. What SE is attempting in my opinion is to stay just out of reach of the mold with out scaring people with the idea of something new. Sure XIV will loose some people but those people will flock back the second something new comes for the game.. unlike the mold games were once your out your out and it would not matter if they were offering free legendary items free.
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#56 Oct 04 2011 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Talk about a complete waste of time. It's obvious that once again, these so-called "reviewers" not only don't play the game, but the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.


I dunno about that. You have to remember that there are people who are not currently playing FFXIV and whose opinions and perceptions of the game are critical to its success. I haven't seen anything about XIV that would make me want to come back. That's not to say that there hasn't been progress, but there's a very substantial difference between 'better' and 'good'.

1.19 wasn't out at the one year anniversary. The review was based on FFXIV as it stood after one year. As much as people might be hopeful for the game's future, it's still not a good game. There's not even anything going on right now that would lead most people to believe it will ever be a good game. It currently looks like it's headed the slow road to a niche F2P game, and the people who play it might want to get used to the idea that it's not going to get favorable reviews in mainstream media unless/until it is brought up to contemporary standards.

MMOs these days can't afford to bore the **** out of their players for the first <x> weeks you play. They have to grab people and hold them because there will always be a point where the grind starts to add up, the "new" content starts to trail off, and people will just leave if they don't have that initial gameplay experience to hold them. Flashy cutscenes and pretty scenery isn't going to hold people. And when those great CGI cutscenes are over and you throw people into the world with a horrible UI and a clunky combat system, they aren't going to stay.

The people still playing XIV aren't the ones who are going to save the game. It's the ones who aren't currently playing it that SE needs to draw in to make it financially viable that are going to save it. If the combat system winds up 'mediocre' instead of 'bad', the content is based around quirky events (escort events? really?), gated content, and grinds. The gameplay itself has to be compelling and right now it's not. Even the Ifrit video they posted with screenshots made such an epic fight look like a snoozefest combat experience with great graphics.
#57 Oct 04 2011 at 6:00 PM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:
[quote=StateAlchemist of Amestris]

The people still playing XIV aren't the ones who are going to save the game. It's the ones who aren't currently playing it that SE needs to draw in to make it financially viable that are going to save it. If the combat system winds up 'mediocre' instead of 'bad', the content is based around quirky events (escort events? really?), gated content, and grinds. The gameplay itself has to be compelling and right now it's not. Even the Ifrit video they posted with screenshots made such an epic fight look like a snoozefest combat experience with great graphics.


You know I thought I was the only one who thought they made such a potentially epic fight as Ifrit look boring.
#58 Oct 04 2011 at 6:14 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
hexaemeron wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Talk about a complete waste of time. It's obvious that once again, these so-called "reviewers" not only don't play the game, but the intentionally release old information right before another HUGE patch just to troll.


Cmon now. They waited 9 months to release a review. We can hardly take them to task for giving a half-baked, overly quick review. And the game's appraisal up to that point was entirely accurate.


He keeps going on about how the UI is still horrible, which while it is still not perfect, it is light-years from where it used to be.


It is still horrible. jus sayin.
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#59 Oct 04 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Good
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Zorvan wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Zorvan wrote:
The average mmo gamer is used to devs pushing out patches in days/weeks, not months. Days/weeks = patches/fixes, months = expansions in normal "AAA" mmos.

The average MMO gamer isn't playing a game being completely rebuilt from the ground up while it's still available to play online. (Otherwise our servers would be a lot more populated.) Trying to compare FFXIV's patch speed to any other 'AAA' MMOs out there is kinda pointless, considering the other MMOs aren't completely rebuilding their games.


No other mmo has ever HAD to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Someone might want to let S-E know being the first isn't always a good thing.

And as far as that goes, it makes my point of S-E's severe lack of priorities and seriousness about fixing this game even more glaring.


Darkfall, complete with wipe!
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#60 Oct 04 2011 at 8:08 PM Rating: Good
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Aurelius wrote:
MMOs these days can't afford to bore the **** out of their players for the first <x> weeks you play. They have to grab people and hold them because there will always be a point where the grind starts to add up, the "new" content starts to trail off, and people will just leave if they don't have that initial gameplay experience to hold them. Flashy cutscenes and pretty scenery isn't going to hold people. And when those great CGI cutscenes are over and you throw people into the world with a horrible UI and a clunky combat system, they aren't going to stay.


My husband is one of those people. He isn't much of a gamer, so for him to want to play, this game needs to keep his interest. There is only so much grinding that he can do between the 4-6 levels worth of story line to keep him wanting to come back. He's board out of his mind because of the lack of things to do.

Also having a lack of an AH that he was familiar with from XI seems to rub him the wrong way, not having a decent enough party search feature doesn't work for him, HE HATES THE UI LAG WITH A PASSION! I am sure there is more that irks his nerves but I usually cut him off after that because I've already read it all over the boards before XD

I just started Dragon Age 2 and I STILL havn't left on my deep roads expeditions of ACT I. I'm a week and a half into it, playing it roughly 1-2 hours a day. I know DA is an offline game, but as far as grabbing a player and having them immersed, I think DAO and DA2 has done a great job doing so from the moment you click "start". You don't feel like you are grinding in level because you are too busy actually having fun, enjoying content and enjoying the story, and side stories of your companions. In XIV, you start, get through the first 20 levels and then grind grind grind, oh look story line. Maybe do some GC quests here, a bit more grinding there, oh look more story...BEHEST! Hurry up and join behest cause we need fast grind points...."grind". You feeeeellll it :/ Offline games these days you don't even feel the grind like you did with FFX, and even in FFX the grind was't as bad as XI pre-aby or no where near as bad as XIV. In XI at least there were other things to do, the same can't be said for FFXIV :/. It's just grind...with the occasional NM hunt to break up the monotoney.

I also trialed Rift for a week. I didn't get far, but from what I played it seems fun. Very fun. Just duoing with my husband. Doing random jobs that actually served a purpose for w/e side you chose. It seemed more fun than FFXIV :/ and what is sad is that Rift just came out what half a year ago? *sigh* And it still kept me more interested in playing than FFXIV does after a year of being released. It didn't feel like I was grinding.

Online game or no, gaming today seems to have moved away from that "grind" feel and actually make the grind apart of the story and side quests to make it more enjoyable. If XIV wants to keep growing and eventually become a successful P2P, from the perspective of my husband, who is not much of an avid gamer, maybe they should think about the structure of the games they create. Because tbh, a remade version of FFX, doesn't sound appealing to me, FFXIII-2 does not sound appealing to me. The expansion to DA2 sounds more appealing to me, Dark Souls sounds more appealing to me...
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#61 Oct 04 2011 at 8:17 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure Bioware would be very happy when you said DA2 and expansions are appealing to you, when they actually went out of their way to apologise their fan base for the copy-pasta in DA2 and how expansions will be making up for it... If anything, I found DA2 without expansion clearly a grindy MMORPG masked as an offline game, with copy-pasta environment and enemies (and without even reskin attempt).
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#62 Oct 04 2011 at 8:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't find it any more grindy than DAO. I'm having more fun doing quests than worrying about leveling up.

Edited, Oct 4th 2011 10:47pm by LillithaFenimore
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#63 Oct 04 2011 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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It felt grindy because of the copy-pasta and the obvious lol MMORPG side quests that involves one single NPC dialogue line (which is fully voiced!) in thanking you for bringing the mysterious Sister A's remain from the place that you have just visited about 15 times before.
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#64 Oct 05 2011 at 3:18 AM Rating: Good
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Why do you guys always complain about them not waiting for the next amazing patches? 1.18 and 1.19 have both now been added and it's still the same basic crappy game.. lol Nothing has changed that would drastically alter opinions or even the reviews, the game still stinks.

Oh I'm sorry I mean..Patch 1.20 will the THE patch, the golden patch that will turn the game around and bring all the players back. amidoingitright? Cause I know this will be the argument from now on same as after 1.18 didn't do squat to change anything.

No patch will fix the fortunes of this game and they certainly won't bring everyone back. Especially given how little resources Square put into these, it's been a year and the changes are crawling in.

They are even toning the graphic advancments back cause the engine sucks, back to 30fps cap? lol
#65 Oct 05 2011 at 5:44 AM Rating: Good
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One day since release of 1.19 nobody has even beat Ifrit yet and most have barely had a chance to log in and already people are calling 1.19 a flop?

I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree and ask at the same time "How do you know?" Just like the reviewer people are spewing crap without even exploring the content and without giving meaningful or informative feedback.
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#66 Oct 05 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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kainsilv wrote:
One day since release of 1.19 nobody has even beat Ifrit yet and most have barely had a chance to log in and already people are calling 1.19 a flop?

I'm sorry but I respectfully disagree and ask at the same time "How do you know?" Just like the reviewer people are spewing crap without even exploring the content and without giving meaningful or informative feedback.


It doesn't really matter if people have defeated Ifrit or not. One fight does not suddenly transform a game. I understand that there were many other changes with the patch and a great many of them look like solid steps in the right direction, but there's still a long, long way to go.

Reviewers aren't interested in reviewing based on potential for a game that has already launched. They review based on what is there. And really, what changes as you progress in FFXIV? You suddenly reach the magical level where you can hunt NMs and do instanced content? Naw. That's not going to cut it. Why would anyone soak a wage to sit down and grind for dozens of hours in a game just so they can base part of their review on the tiny snippets of content you get treated to for enduring the grind? "Ya, the game lacks a soul. Ya, the UI is horrible. Ya, the combat system is clunky and just doesn't seem to flow at all. But you know what? After about 150 hours invested I got to team up with a group of adventurers and go kill a named aldgoat. That made it all worthwhile."

Nothing against Yoshi-P and his team and all the work they've done, but to expect FFXIV to get any kind of positive review at this point is rather laughable.
#67 Oct 05 2011 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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LillithaFenimore wrote:
I also trialed Rift for a week. I didn't get far, but from what I played it seems fun. Very fun. Just duoing with my husband. Doing random jobs that actually served a purpose for w/e side you chose. It seemed more fun than FFXIV :/ and what is sad is that Rift just came out what half a year ago? *sigh* And it still kept me more interested in playing than FFXIV does after a year of being released. It didn't feel like I was grinding.


You should come back to Rift. It just keeps getting better. With no disrespect intended to the XIV community, I present to you one of the most lol-worthy game promo videos on the intartoobz today: Ascend!.

Quote:
Online game or no, gaming today seems to have moved away from that "grind" feel and actually make the grind apart of the story and side quests to make it more enjoyable. If XIV wants to keep growing and eventually become a successful P2P, from the perspective of my husband, who is not much of an avid gamer, maybe they should think about the structure of the games they create. Because tbh, a remade version of FFX, doesn't sound appealing to me, FFXIII-2 does not sound appealing to me. The expansion to DA2 sounds more appealing to me, Dark Souls sounds more appealing to me...


I think every MMO will contain a measure of grind, and I think the players themselves sometimes get caught up in it because they're more interested in the reward than the process, but that's why I tend to harp on the gameplay more than the fluff. I understand the FF franchise is built around storytelling and character development, but it's what people do between the snippets of story that will define whether or not they stick around in a game. My last week in FFXIV was highlighted by watching a youtube video of the cutscenes for the last in one of the nation mission series. At that point, I had seen what I wanted to see and continuing to play the game seemed entirely unnecessary.
#68 Oct 05 2011 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Runespider wrote:


They are even toning the graphic advancments back cause the engine sucks, back to 30fps cap? lol


Wait, what? Is this actually true?


Edited, Oct 5th 2011 8:25pm by Lobivopis
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#69 Oct 06 2011 at 3:35 AM Rating: Default
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Aurelius wrote:


The people still playing XIV aren't the ones who are going to save the game. It's the ones who aren't currently playing it that SE needs to draw in to make it financially viable that are going to save it. If the combat system winds up 'mediocre' instead of 'bad', the content is based around quirky events (escort events? really?), gated content, and grinds. The gameplay itself has to be compelling and right now it's not. Even the Ifrit video they posted with screenshots made such an epic fight look like a snoozefest combat experience with great graphics.




first, if you're saying the gameplay isn't compelling, you haven't played post-1.19. combat is fun and no longer clunky at all. second, why wouldn't you want quirky events? do you prefer mundane content? there is plenty to do ingame, and a lot more to come.

as for the Ifrit battle, i watched doctor mog's live stream of the hard mode fight and it is anything but boring. could SE do a better job promoting the new patch? yes, there i agree. but even if they do, they'll probably never overcome the bad taste of that launch.

but who cares? save the game? Yoshi is saving the game by making it fun. do you think it's going to get shut down? SE quite clearly has no plans of shelving it anytime soon. So what needs to be saved? there are more than enough people playing on my server now. i don't need or want my mmo of choice to be as popular as WoW or even rift for that matter. an mmo doesn't need 10mill subs to sustain it, or to be fun.
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#70 Oct 06 2011 at 1:32 PM Rating: Good
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Llester wrote:
Aurelius wrote:


The people still playing XIV aren't the ones who are going to save the game. It's the ones who aren't currently playing it that SE needs to draw in to make it financially viable that are going to save it. If the combat system winds up 'mediocre' instead of 'bad', the content is based around quirky events (escort events? really?), gated content, and grinds. The gameplay itself has to be compelling and right now it's not. Even the Ifrit video they posted with screenshots made such an epic fight look like a snoozefest combat experience with great graphics.




first, if you're saying the gameplay isn't compelling, you haven't played post-1.19. combat is fun and no longer clunky at all. second, why wouldn't you want quirky events? do you prefer mundane content? there is plenty to do ingame, and a lot more to come.

as for the Ifrit battle, i watched doctor mog's live stream of the hard mode fight and it is anything but boring. could SE do a better job promoting the new patch? yes, there i agree. but even if they do, they'll probably never overcome the bad taste of that launch.

but who cares? save the game? Yoshi is saving the game by making it fun. do you think it's going to get shut down? SE quite clearly has no plans of shelving it anytime soon. So what needs to be saved? there are more than enough people playing on my server now. i don't need or want my mmo of choice to be as popular as WoW or even rift for that matter. an mmo doesn't need 10mill subs to sustain it, or to be fun.


Sadly it does needs more than 30-50k users to survive. There is no other way to see a Next Gen MMORPG who lost 90% of it's userbase, who was designed to be "Casual", and a breath of fresh air, as a failure if it ends up with 30-50K subs, add to it, that nothing on the table besides the class system is new and exciting, the market wards are a horrible idea, the patch pace is horribly slow(Compared to what other MMO are pumping out in the same timeframe) etc etc.
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#71 Oct 06 2011 at 1:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Llester wrote:
first, if you're saying the gameplay isn't compelling, you haven't played post-1.19. combat is fun and no longer clunky at all. second, why wouldn't you want quirky events? do you prefer mundane content? there is plenty to do ingame, and a lot more to come.


The topic of the thread is a re-review article written prior to the release of 1.19. There is not plenty to do in FFXIV. Games that don't botch their launch tend to have more content in their starter zones than you'll find in all of FFXIV as it currently stands. FFXIV gameplay starts out feeling like the endgame grind in other MMOs, minus the motivation to do the grind in the first place. This isn't about where FFXIV is going, this is about where FFXIV was at the time the review was written, and anyone unhappy with a review based on how the game stands because it's still a work in progress is thinking with their fanboy goggles on. If you want FFXIV to succeed, you need to recognize just how far Yoshi-P still needs to go. It's a long, long way from being market viable.
#72 Oct 06 2011 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Llester wrote:

but who cares? save the game? Yoshi is saving the game by making it fun. do you think it's going to get shut down? SE quite clearly has no plans of shelving it anytime soon. So what needs to be saved? there are more than enough people playing on my server now. i don't need or want my mmo of choice to be as popular as WoW or even rift for that matter. an mmo doesn't need 10mill subs to sustain it, or to be fun.


It needs more than 25-30k, which is approximately what it has now. They are basically throwing money into a bonfire hoping to get enough subscribers later to make it profitable. But if the subscribers never increase then the game will essentially be a money pit. They might defiantly say "we'll never shut it down no matter what!" right now but if in two years the game is still sitting at 30k subscribers then they will make the decision to pull the plug eventually.



Edited, Oct 6th 2011 7:58pm by Lobivopis
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#73 Oct 07 2011 at 4:16 AM Rating: Decent
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The objective of a reviewer is not to tell a game developer where to take their game, but to tell the readers where the game stands now. As it stands before 1.19 it was still unacceptable by today's MMORPG standards. Now even after 1.19, I don't believe the review would be much brighter as the community itself right now is bickering to death about the current patch, with people saying "we need to give it time"...give it time? Most reviews don't wait that long to observe a game. So its clear even after 1.19, the game has work to do. Personally, I think Yoshi is focused on the bigger picture (1.21) and I think it will be impossible to accurately judge the game until then, since I don't think hes thinking about the small picture either. So we mys well drop this argument until 1.21.
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