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Patch Notes 1.19 (9/30/2011)Follow

#52 Sep 30 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Default
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I like to have all my abilities out. Would like them to add more spell bars that I can move around and lock.

This update is looking great though. UI needs to be more user friendly in my opinion.
#53 Sep 30 2011 at 3:36 PM Rating: Decent
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Patchnotes annhiliated my dumbphones internet... I've never been so happy.
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#54 Sep 30 2011 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
That's one hefty patch, the Devs have definitely been working hard. I can't wait for the changes. Only four more days until Tuesday!
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#55 Sep 30 2011 at 4:33 PM Rating: Default
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RamseySylph wrote:


Anyways, while I see your point, I disagree with it having the effect you're looking for. I think making the actual combat challenging is what needs to happen, not make it challenging to actually be at full health and MP for the next fight. With these changes, all it means is we're going to be doing more standing around, which personally I find boring.

Arrived at the next fight? Not full hp/mp? Stand until it's full! With the old system, passive and active mode actually meant something, going passive and running to the next fight made for good pacing. You were ready to go when you got there.

If they wanted to make resource management more important, that would have been the old system where MP didn't regen, but that was disproportionately in favor of certain classes, and they didn't execute very well. We'll see how these changes go, but I'm not sure I like the idea of having to be more stationary. I don't mind good old fashioned pull and kill parties being a viable option, but this isn't really a good way to go about it, but that's my opinion.


I am totally with you man. I guess I won't be playing mages again for a very long time, because frankly, "stand around and wait and do nothing fantasy" really doesn't excite me. This isn't 2003 anymore. People want to play games, not stand around waiting to play them.
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#56 Sep 30 2011 at 4:40 PM Rating: Good
RamseySylph wrote:
KaneKitty wrote:
I actually embrace this change, Ramsey, so I hope this doesn't turn into too much of an internet argument! >_<

I thought the old system was simply too easy precisely because "you could pretty much be in the action non stop" - I felt invincible, and there was no strategy, no resource management, that carried over from [monster one] to [monster two]; it felt to me like I was only rushing through things, and I think the fact that I would never even use up 10 out of 30 minutes on my timer was an indication that things were too easy.

Before, it felt like a constant solo-zerg to me - attack attack attack and dash to the next monster, fully healed - so I'm happy that SE has essentially increased the difficulty of facing multiple opponents and of timed events with these changes.


Responding to KaneKitty here since the original post was closed...

Anyways, while I see your point, I disagree with it having the effect you're looking for. I think making the actual combat challenging is what needs to happen, not make it challenging to actually be at full health and MP for the next fight. With these changes, all it means is we're going to be doing more standing around, which personally I find boring.

Arrived at the next fight? Not full hp/mp? Stand until it's full! With the old system, passive and active mode actually meant something, going passive and running to the next fight made for good pacing. You were ready to go when you got there.

If they wanted to make resource management more important, that would have been the old system where MP didn't regen, but that was disproportionately in favor of certain classes, and they didn't execute very well. We'll see how these changes go, but I'm not sure I like the idea of having to be more stationary. I don't mind good old fashioned pull and kill parties being a viable option, but this isn't really a good way to go about it, but that's my opinion.


Yeah standing around and waiting for your HP/MP to refill isn't fun, but it has to done to counter the casting magic in passive mode implementation. It's a balance issue.
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#57 Sep 30 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
fyi, pre 1.19 you could sit and refill your hp/mp very very fast i have a feeling it isnt going to be as bad as you think.
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#58 Sep 30 2011 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
fyi, pre 1.19 you could sit and refill your hp/mp very very fast i have a feeling it isnt going to be as bad as you think.


Yep, I think they're gonna increase the amount of HP/MP you regen each tick due to them removing regen while moving.
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#59 Sep 30 2011 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Am I the only one notice that many of the current equipments have been leveled down? I'm gonna bet 100 Lalafell that Darkhold equipments are going to be nerfed down to r45 as well.
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#60 Sep 30 2011 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
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MutamixBubblypots wrote:
Yeah standing around and waiting for your HP/MP to refill isn't fun, but it has to done to counter the casting magic in passive mode implementation. It's a balance issue.


First of all, I don't even understand why people seemed to think this was an issue, why do you need to cast magic in passive mode? Casting a spell from passive mode works, you just enter active mode.

Also, there are other ways they could've gotten around this, they could merely stop your hp/mp regen in passive mode temporarily until you go a few seconds without casting. If anything this is a huge buff to casters in some situations.

It's not a good solution, and it's a solution to a problem that didn't even exist. I am excited about this update, but this one change I don't agree with, I always thought that the one thing this game had a leg up on over FFXI was the quick pace. Those of you who want a more relaxed pace, I can agree with you, it would be nice to have downtime, but making us stand around waiting for our hp and mp to regen isn't the kind of downtime we need.

A trip back to town between missions a la Monster Hunter is the kind of down time that can be relaxing and enjoyable, after completing a quest.
#61 Sep 30 2011 at 7:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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why do you need to cast magic in passive mode?

Because mages need to swap wands or gear or whatever to maximize spell potential (healing vs enhancing vs enfeebling vs damage) you cant swap gear in active mode.
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#62 Sep 30 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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i'm very impressed with these patch notes. they've been a lot busier than i thought. going in a more FFXI direction has got my attention. and the materia stuff actually makes me want to gather/craft again. this really might be the patch that turns the game around for me.
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#63 Sep 30 2011 at 8:00 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Quote:
why do you need to cast magic in passive mode?

Because mages need to swap wands or gear or whatever to maximize spell potential (healing vs enhancing vs enfeebling vs damage) you cant swap gear in active mode.


You shouldn't be able to swap gear. at all. ever.

Unless it's between battles. If that's the reason this was done, and they do not adequately nerf gear swapping into the ground, I will, no joke, stop playing this game. If it becomes a standard to blink out of existence in order to swap in the proper panties and elemental staff to cast every single spell, this game is doomed in my eyes.

Doomed. And I'm not even being hyperbolic.

It's not a fun mechanic, it's not a good mechanic, it's not an aesthetically pleasing mechanic, it's a nonsensical mechanic, it's not a deep mechanic, an interesting mechanic, it's not a new player-friendly mechanic, it's not a streamlined mechanic, it's not an intuitive mechanic, it's a horrible. terrible. terrible. terrible. terrible mechanic.


Edited, Sep 30th 2011 7:03pm by RamseySylph
#64 Sep 30 2011 at 8:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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RamseySylph wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Quote:
why do you need to cast magic in passive mode?

Because mages need to swap wands or gear or whatever to maximize spell potential (healing vs enhancing vs enfeebling vs damage) you cant swap gear in active mode.


You shouldn't be able to swap gear. at all. ever.

Unless it's between battles. If that's the reason this was done, and they do not adequately nerf gear swapping into the ground, I will, no joke, stop playing this game. If it becomes a standard to blink out of existence in order to swap in the proper panties and elemental staff to cast every single spell, this game is doomed in my eyes.

Doomed. And I'm not even being hyperbolic.

It's not a fun mechanic, it's not a good mechanic, it's not an aesthetically pleasing mechanic, it's a nonsensical mechanic, it's not a deep mechanic, an interesting mechanic, it's not a new player-friendly mechanic, it's not a streamlined mechanic, it's not an intuitive mechanic, it's a horrible. terrible. terrible. terrible. terrible mechanic.


Edited, Sep 30th 2011 7:03pm by RamseySylph


Like FFXI was doomed? Smiley: tongue
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#65 Sep 30 2011 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with Ramsey on this one, gear swapping in combat will only lead to the same headaches it did in XI.

Some people may have liked it but I thought it was bull and have heard alot of people who seem to agree.
#66 Sep 30 2011 at 8:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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To be honest I never really worried about it extensively in XI, and I don't think it will be a show stopper for this game either should people decide to go that route. I personally wont, it seems like a hassle for marginal gain.
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#67 Sep 30 2011 at 8:56 PM Rating: Good
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zurinadrg wrote:
I agree with Ramsey on this one, gear swapping in combat will only lead to the same headaches it did in XI.

Some people may have liked it but I thought it was bull and have heard alot of people who seem to agree.

The flip side of the coin is that, for developers, allowing gear swaps gives them the ability to keep players around longer with the same amount of content by introducing "best" gear in each category. It's somewhat underhanded, and there are better ways of going about it, but from the perspective of the developers (specifically the accountants) there is justification for allowing gear swapping.
#68 Sep 30 2011 at 9:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hulan wrote:
zurinadrg wrote:
I agree with Ramsey on this one, gear swapping in combat will only lead to the same headaches it did in XI.

Some people may have liked it but I thought it was bull and have heard alot of people who seem to agree.

The flip side of the coin is that, for developers, allowing gear swaps gives them the ability to keep players around longer with the same amount of content by introducing "best" gear in each category. It's somewhat underhanded, and there are better ways of going about it, but from the perspective of the developers (specifically the accountants) there is justification for allowing gear swapping.


It's a bad choice overall for developers, because it narrows your audience to the people patient enough to actually set complex macros for each and every spell. Most players are going to say "What the @#%^ I have to wear a different outfit for weaponskills, disappear when I use them and not even see the effect?" and leave. They can make situational gear, that's fine.

Here's a good example of a situations that could benefit from a different set of gear: you've decided to go out solo adventuring, you've decided to fight the empire with an alliance, you're journeying deep into a fiery volcano full of fire enemies.

Here's a bad example of situations: you're casting cure, you're casting poisona, you're casting protect, you're standing around between casting cures. (These should not require different outfits. Period.)

Wint wrote:
To be honest I never really worried about it extensively in XI, and I don't think it will be a show stopper for this game either should people decide to go that route. I personally wont, it seems like a hassle for marginal gain.


Not to sound like a **** but, the gain wasn't marginal, it was an immensely powerful gain in most cases, and significantly upped your performance, swap to haste for TP gain, swap to certain potency for certain spells, back to refresh gear, etc.

FFXI wasn't doomed by this because it was launched almost a decade ago, when MMO choices were limited, and it never gained an enormous western following. I'm not saying this game can't adopt some aspects of FFXI, but this is not one that spells success. I'm not ready to cry wolf yet, but as soon as people are expected to, or can gain a significant benefit from gear swapping during combat, I'm honestly done.

It's not fun, it's a hassle, a headache, and it's bad design. It totally kills my ability to enjoy the game. I used gear swap to it's fullest extent in FFXI, I was a Red Mage for crying out loud, every fight was a fashion show. That was fine, for FFXI, it's not fine for this game, and it really will kill it for me.

I really hate to derail this thread, because there's so much good coming from 1.19, so take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm not a doomsayer, but I honestly cringe at the idea of swapping gear. It doesn't create more variety, more fun, more anything, other than headaches.

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 8:25pm by RamseySylph
#69 Sep 30 2011 at 9:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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The only problem I have with gear swapping in FFXI was that it took third-party tools to get the full benefit. FFXI macros (like FFXIV) only had a limited number of lines, not nearly enough to perform all gear swaps, perform ability and switch gear back. Third-party tools allowed this, but required using complicated files. If you didn't use these, you were at a disadvantage from those who did.
#70 Sep 30 2011 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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my only problem with gear swapping is all the blinking. if SE implements all new animations for taking off and putting on gear, i'll be ok with it.











no good?
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#71 Sep 30 2011 at 9:42 PM Rating: Decent
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El Doublo Posto strikes again!!!

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 11:43pm by Llester
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#72 Sep 30 2011 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
I hope there will be a way to call choco and dismount etc with gamepad - or at worst, keyboard. I hate using a mouse at all.

Edited, Sep 30th 2011 10:43am by Olorinus


This is already noted in the patch notes: the button that is used to call emote list with the controller is gonna be removed from the controller options, instead of that, that button is for moving the cursor to the micro menu, so you can select with right and left on d-pad any of the shortcuts in there, including the chocobo icon.
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#73 Sep 30 2011 at 10:11 PM Rating: Decent
I've heard that the Devs aren't planning encounters around gear swapping. I wish I could find the post on the official forums. I think passive mode casting is another step in the changing battle system, we may see DoWs being able to use certain abilities in passive mode in the future. Maybe it's their way of "speeding" up the battle system.
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#74 Sep 30 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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MutamixBubblypots wrote:
I've heard that the Devs aren't planning encounters around gear swapping. I wish I could find the post on the official forums. I think passive mode casting is another step in the changing battle system, we may see DoWs being able to use certain abilities in passive mode in the future. Maybe it's their way of "speeding" up the battle system.


THis is already in here too:

[dev1032] The following actions are now executable while in passive mode:

All magic spells
Actions which can be used on self or other party members

I suppose this include actions like featherfoot, invigorate, rampart, etc, in passive mode.
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#75 Sep 30 2011 at 10:18 PM Rating: Decent
RdeLeo wrote:
MutamixBubblypots wrote:
I've heard that the Devs aren't planning encounters around gear swapping. I wish I could find the post on the official forums. I think passive mode casting is another step in the changing battle system, we may see DoWs being able to use certain abilities in passive mode in the future. Maybe it's their way of "speeding" up the battle system.


THis is already in here too:

[dev1032] The following actions are now executable while in passive mode:

All magic spells
Actions which can be used on self or other party members

I suppose this include actions like featherfoot, invigorate, rampart, etc, in passive mode.


I saw that but I thought it was for mages only, but if it's for DoWs too then that would be awesome.
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#76 Oct 01 2011 at 1:54 AM Rating: Good
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I can manually equip all my slots faster than Ctrl 1, macros are so near-broken levels of slow in this title, they can't turn this into a gear swap game.
#77 Oct 01 2011 at 2:55 AM Rating: Decent
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You mean people actually need to rest and recover MP while playing mages? stygian spikes 2 give me like 30mp per hit and 50+ on NMs.

In group scenarios I can generally sustain my MP bar for a good 5-10 minutes no resting/regen just from drain MP, then I can use exaltation to regen a lot back.


Are you using fire2/banish 2 by any chance? you shouldn't be using it at all and that might explain your MP problems.

Edited, Oct 1st 2011 4:56am by FluttershyPony
#78 Oct 01 2011 at 3:18 AM Rating: Excellent
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For someone who's been gone from the game for some time, these patch notes are overwhelming. I can't even begin to take in the amount of stuff that's changing.

Wow.
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#79 Oct 01 2011 at 3:49 AM Rating: Decent
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Vawn43 wrote:
The only problem I have with gear swapping in FFXI was that it took third-party tools to get the full benefit. FFXI macros (like FFXIV) only had a limited number of lines, not nearly enough to perform all gear swaps, perform ability and switch gear back. Third-party tools allowed this, but required using complicated files. If you didn't use these, you were at a disadvantage from those who did.


This is basically how I feel too. Actually I really like gearswapping and if they introduce/allow it in XIV I'll be really happy. This is of course assuming that it works okay because like was mentioned by Ramsey it worked for XI, but it doesn't mean it will work for XIV. Although, for me it isn't just because of the mechanic itself or because this is not 2003, it is more that different games work differently and how a mechanic like this will work in XIV is something I'd have to see before I can really say if it is something I think is cool or not.

Like Vawn said though, if they implement or allow for a mechanic like this, I sincerely hope they actually make the system around it work. We should not have to download 3rd party programs (Especially not if SE doesn't even allow for it) to actually make proper gearswap macros.

I mean, the thing is that I've never been too bothered by blinking, I like having A LOT of different sets to work towards, I enjoy the fact that I don't look the same all the time. I do however understand why people can think something like this is not cool and I agree with Ramsey that the majority of people probably thinks the same way he does and in that sense I don't know if implementing a system like this is the best choice for SE. At the same time though, I don't know if it will either make nor break the future success (or lack thereof) of XIV, I think other factors will play a bigger role in that sense and in that case personally I like that they allow for gearswaps.
#81 Oct 01 2011 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
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blink tanking is the future of xiv!
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#83 Oct 01 2011 at 5:47 AM Rating: Decent
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No gearswaps.
You guys forgot we have the "no gearswap" malus when swapping while your PT is engaged in battle?
#85 Oct 01 2011 at 7:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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Likibiki wrote:
For someone who's been gone from the game for some time, these patch notes are overwhelming. I can't even begin to take in the amount of stuff that's changing.

Wow.


Totally this. I've been playing very very casually for the past few weeks trying to learn about everything that's happened but it's overwhelming Smiley: yikes
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#86 Oct 01 2011 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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Rinsui wrote:
No gearswaps.
You guys forgot we have the "no gearswap" malus when swapping while your PT is engaged in battle?


I didn't forget, I just didn't know hehe. Got back to the game only a few weeks ago and I've played at the most three or so hours a week. Just assumed it would be possible since people were talking about it.

Either way though, I think passive spellcasting is the most awesome change yet in XIV. It just feels extremely extremely akward and clunky the way it is now. It was worse in XI, but this is still a very welcome change.

For the record, I've been bothered by the quite short range of spells, is this something anyone has seen them talk about changing or is it only me who feels this way?
#88 Oct 01 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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Ohhhh I love this from you! Almost like a princess bard in gamespeak, your powers are so sweet but they won't get used right! That's so awesome XD If you want to extend them, you gotta make a chat server and such, and command everyone yada yada!


Receptive aphasia?

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptive_aphasia )
#90 Oct 01 2011 at 10:36 AM Rating: Default
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I hope in the future you can /display on or off neck piece, earrings and rings. Some of them are just too fugly and bulky.
#91 Oct 01 2011 at 10:48 AM Rating: Excellent
SHould have to worry about jewlery too much Vitamin, you already can't see nek pieces half the time due to the body pieces covering them up, and gloves hide the rings and such...which kind of annoyed me just a lil bit. But meh.
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#92 Oct 01 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Awesome stuff.

I'm confused though... Why did they make Maim, Victimize and other awesome skills "Class Only" but triple the recast? Are these TP moves now going to be amazingly powerful?

Also, I'm surprised that the archer nerf we all saw coming looks so teeny. It sounds like Multishot arrows +Raging Strike + Ferocity is getting nerfed but... Eh.. I can't complain. I'm just happy they didn't triple Bloodletter's recast time.

Edited, Oct 1st 2011 2:21pm by Louiscool
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#93 Oct 01 2011 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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#94 Oct 01 2011 at 12:38 PM Rating: Good
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Does anyone know if the levels of recipes are changing? I only ask cause I have like 60 stacks of ironsheets atlvl 30 armorer, should I just craft up as many as I can before the update?
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#96 Oct 01 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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You shouldn't be able to swap gear. at all. ever.


Good god you remind me of ff11 where it wasn't just mages, but EVERY job changing gear for EVERY weaponskill/magic/ability

Being thief I had to carry around a ******** of gear to swap in and out for every action just to avoid being gimp.

Battles didn't even look like battles, since everyone was blinking in and out, looking different every time they do.

I say pick your gear before battle, make the best balance you can and GO WITH IT. Worry about swinging your sword, not changing your panties and gloves.

"HOLD ON IFRIT! JEEZUS I gotta change into my fire resistant bra before you hellfire! Give me some time to undo the snaps and zip my fly"
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#97 Oct 01 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Excellent
Gear swapping won't be efficient for any classes besides mages. You can't swap gear in active mode. I don't know how many times I have to say that. People are getting all riled up for nothing. This is why they made casting in passive mode possible. So a mage can maximize efficiency for the 4 types of magic (healing, enhancing, enfeebling, damage).
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#98 Oct 01 2011 at 5:59 PM Rating: Good
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Thank god and Yoshi P for this patch, so many good things =D!!!!
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#99 Oct 01 2011 at 6:46 PM Rating: Good
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OK I need a computer smart person to explain the benefit to me:
Said something about can set default FPS to 60 or 30. How will this improve things?
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#100 Oct 01 2011 at 7:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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thiib wrote:
OK I need a computer smart person to explain the benefit to me:
Said something about can set default FPS to 60 or 30. How will this improve things?


Komputer work less hard makin' 30 frames as opposed to 60? :D

R-right?
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#101 Oct 01 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
Gear swapping won't be efficient for any classes besides mages. You can't swap gear in active mode. I don't know how many times I have to say that. People are getting all riled up for nothing. This is why they made casting in passive mode possible. So a mage can maximize efficiency for the 4 types of magic (healing, enhancing, enfeebling, damage).


It really doesn't matter if it's for mages or melee, or both, it's a horrific mechanic. Unless it was as simple as dragging and dropping a piece of gear onto a spell, and it automatically changing when the spell was cast, and it did not cause a character to blink, and even then, it's a really bad mechanic for a variety of reasons. Itemization should be such that a character does not need to switch equipment on a per spell basis.
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