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Raw Material prices going up after patch?Follow

#1 Sep 30 2011 at 11:49 AM Rating: Good
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I've noticed in the new crafting recipes that the yields of certain items from raw materials, i.e. lumber from logs, has been reduced significantly. It seems to me this will result in lower supply / higher demand of raw materials such as logs and ores. Anyone see these changes as benefiting DoL in terms of profitability?
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#2 Sep 30 2011 at 12:27 PM Rating: Good
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I'm thinking of specifically grinding up some items like fish glue etc that will have reduced yields after the patch and just stockpiling them on some mules or something. Fish glue... so brutal. Do they realize how low the catch rate of those fish are?
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#3 Sep 30 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
I think the whole point of this is to make Gil actually worth something. Let's face it, money grows on trees in Eorzea. It's kinda sad.
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#4 Sep 30 2011 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good
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only if you have a higher level char. Can't even afford basic gear if you just start a char.
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#5 Sep 30 2011 at 1:36 PM Rating: Excellent
That will change with this patch as well. Lower level gear will be a lot cheaper to make.
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#6 Sep 30 2011 at 2:11 PM Rating: Excellent
Gathering Fatigue is abolished, which should offset the supply/demand.

Looking closer, the demand will be higher because each raw material yields less crafting mats, which is what you are saying.

Now the actual amount of raw materials per gather is not increasing at this time. So gathers can spend more time gathering matrials at the 100% gathering rate. But that does not change the actual time vs. materials gathered.

On a topic little discussed, mining and fishing bots (the reason that gathering fatigue was originally implemented) will now be pulling mats 24 hours. So you will see an increase in raw mats available that will actually lower prices for legit gatherers.

Gatherers didn't like fatigue, but it actually helped hold the raw mats prices higher. The latest direction they are taking FFXIV is to make legit players happy, and be damned the completely forseeable consequences of not restricting bots and RMT.

We wanted them to fight RMT, based on experience with FFXI, but the only ways (they have found) to do that hurt players as well. Look at the Wards - direct result of anti-RMT design and it is extremely unpopular.

Just talking about RMT is a bit taboo because there is no clear answer. Plus, some of our own in-game friends are using bots just to be competitive. Do you hate them for that? Meh, I don't know the answer.

In summary, prices will likely change, but perhaps not for the reasons you are expecting.

#7 Oct 01 2011 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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zpanda wrote:
I've noticed in the new crafting recipes that the yields of certain items from raw materials, i.e. lumber from logs, has been reduced significantly. It seems to me this will result in lower supply / higher demand of raw materials such as logs and ores. Anyone see these changes as benefiting DoL in terms of profitability?


Well if you take silver ore for instance, I'm selling it now for ~6k each but after the patch you can buy it from an NPC vendor for 1.5k.... so I would say no, profit in my case is taking a dump.

I would guess it would stay the same or go down. They said the amount of materials required in recipes will go down making demand go down, presumably enough to offset the lower yields. Who knows really. There will likely be countless painful tweaks down the road.
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#8 Oct 01 2011 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I think the whole point of this is to make Gil actually worth something. Let's face it, money grows on trees in Eorzea. It's kinda sad.


State - I originally hit 'reply' to agree with you, but as I typed and thought through my response, I'm not so sure. At the surface, the volume of changes leads to the logical conclusion that it MUST have been devised to alter the economy in some way.

Regardless of whether or not that's the intent (after thinking it through, I don't believe it is - at least not the primary intent; the primary intent is to streamline enjoyable gameplay), I don't believe these changes will alter the long term trajectory of the FFXIV economy (which, admittedly, is the most screwy market I've experienced in an MMO to date).

Economy, by definition, is money and velocity (how frequently the money changes hands), with the latter being more conducive to a healthy economy than the former. Gil earned will always be a function of time in an MMO - the more Earth hours you spend, the more money you will earn on a relative basis, hence the lucrative business of RMT. The changes to gameplay as laid out in the 1.19 notes certainly affect how money is earned in the status quo in terms of what actions yield which reward, but they only shift optimal profit from a certain set of activities to another (yet to be determined).

While the yield is definitely shifted to make raw materials more important (1 log == 1 lumber as opposed to 4, for example), it's not clear that the demand for raw materials will overwhelm the economy to the point that gil becomes a scarce resource. In my opinion, the radical simplification of the items that can be made and the items that are required to make them seems to indicate that SE is disinterested with academically analyzing the XIV economy and instead focused on making the game most enjoyable to its players, which is great news for us.

If anything, I would expect high-level materia, catalysts, and materia-laden gear to skyrocket in price, while the low-level and non-materia accessorated to become ubiquitous or commonplace, with little extra cost due to marginal added benefit.

Then again, with the oversaturated money supply we have right now, who knows what will happen. They say life imitates art, but in this case, maybe life will imitate art...

TL;DR - Whatever may be the case, I don't think the change will hurt, but at the same time struggle to accept that "the whole point" is to reduce friction in the economy. Maybe I'm reading into your words too much, but the prices of goods is the least of this game's problems.
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#9 Oct 02 2011 at 9:25 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I think the whole point of this is to make Gil actually worth something. Let's face it, money grows on trees in Eorzea. It's kinda sad.
It used to. At low levels now, that's no longer the case.
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#10 Oct 02 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
bsphil wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I think the whole point of this is to make Gil actually worth something. Let's face it, money grows on trees in Eorzea. It's kinda sad.
It used to. At low levels now, that's no longer the case.

It's not that the money doesn't still grow on the same trees, it's just that the lower branches have been picked clean. :)
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#11 Oct 02 2011 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
bsphil wrote:
StateAlchemist of Amestris wrote:
I think the whole point of this is to make Gil actually worth something. Let's face it, money grows on trees in Eorzea. It's kinda sad.
It used to. At low levels now, that's no longer the case.
It's not that the money doesn't still grow on the same trees, it's just that the lower branches have been picked clean. :)
That's one way to put it. Another would be that SE intentionally nerfed the gil fountains low level players had access to. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing either, btw. The problem is that it was still around for a long time, so the people who played through it are sitting on massive piles of gil, and everyone else is left out with nothing. Now you're stuck with two classes of players, those with mountains of gil, and those with very little. Makes buying gear really difficult. The answer to gil fountains is gil sinks, generally speaking.

Edited, Oct 2nd 2011 11:00am by bsphil
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#12 Oct 02 2011 at 10:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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So...slight sidetrack, but still related and I've never seen this discussed anywhere...

Logs will now yield 1 lumber instead of 4 lumber. And skins will now yield 1 leather instead of 4 leather. BUT, the skin to leather recipe is technically a new recipe (Skin + Alumen NOT skin + wood chips). Since they're keeping the old recipes active until at least next patch, you guys think that Skins + wood chips will still yield 4 leathers?
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#13 Oct 02 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Decent
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As someone who recently bought a 2nd copy of the game, I can tell that everyone who complains about lack of gil must be doing something very wrong, as my 2nd account never did anything for gil other than combat Leves and selling junk loot to NPCs.

I have upwards 4 millions on that account now... The only thing I'm missing is Templar's stuff or HQ things, but neither of those I consider to be normal to own for the amount of effort I put in that account.
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#14 Oct 04 2011 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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You all gotta remember that they've taking out a lot of items that were found while gathering. With these items missing from the loot tables, you hit the other items a lot more often resulting in more of them in a gathering session. So even tho it now takes 1 log for 1 lumber, vs. the 1 log gets 4 lumber, it'll still balance out more because you'll collect more logs than you did before when you may have gotten them once out of say the 5 or 7 attempts on that location. Instead of collecting branches, feathers, acorns, latex, logs, olives, etc. from a tree, you'll only get 3-5 of the items to hit on the loot table vs. the 7-12 there may have been before. So you'll hit that log slot a lot more thus giving you more to change at the new 1:1 ratio.
#15 Oct 04 2011 at 12:04 PM Rating: Decent
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At least in the case of making ingots out of ore, the ratio is favored by the new recipes. (If you do 3 at a time instead of 1) you can make 1:1 ore:ingot where before it was 3:2.4 ore:ingot.

But this is probably more to offset the fact that metalworking used to involve lots of other parts that took less nuggets than an ingot.

Edited, Oct 4th 2011 11:05am by RamseySylph
#16 Oct 05 2011 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Don't think this is right. The ratio of cobalt ore to ingot is 2:1 regardless of creating 1 or 3 ingots at a time (recipes below). I mined a bunch of ore last night and converted them into ingots myself to create some cobalt armor pieces and can confirm the below is correct. Definitely felt like I was burning through mats faster crafting stuff than before, not just because of the ratio of ore/ingots but other reduced yields from crafts such as metal rings from ingots .

6 Cobalt Ore + 2 Iron Ore -> 3 Cobalt Ingot
2 Cobalt Ore + 1 Iron Ore -> 1 Cobalt Ingot

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#17 Oct 05 2011 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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This will of cause increase the demand of raw materials, which will result in higher prices, leading to more people taking up gathering the stuff. This would again lower the prices somewhat.

So what we are probably going to see is a temporary spike in prices followed by a decrease.
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#18 Oct 05 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Good
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esque wrote:
So...slight sidetrack, but still related and I've never seen this discussed anywhere...

Logs will now yield 1 lumber instead of 4 lumber. And skins will now yield 1 leather instead of 4 leather. BUT, the skin to leather recipe is technically a new recipe (Skin + Alumen NOT skin + wood chips). Since they're keeping the old recipes active until at least next patch, you guys think that Skins + wood chips will still yield 4 leathers?


Bah, in case anyone was wondering...

Each lumber can still be turned into 1 Dated Halfmask. 1 leather can still be turned into 4 vamps. I can vouch that the old Leather>Vamps recipes are the same level synths they were before, but the Skin>leather recipes are NOT. The new toadskin>toad leather recipe is much lower. Old recipe used to give me about 350 exp at R34, new one now gives me about 110exp.

The old recipe of Skin + Woodchips does NOT work anymore, which makes sense. Only the lower yield Skin +alumen recipe works.
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#19 Oct 05 2011 at 2:17 PM Rating: Decent
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esque wrote:
The old recipe of Skin + Woodchips does NOT work anymore, which makes sense. Only the lower yield Skin +alumen recipe works.


Yea I noticed that too when I tried to do the Sheepskin + chips last night.
#20 Oct 05 2011 at 3:14 PM Rating: Decent
24 hours after patchfall and I'm still only at 60% download progress, so I can't check this for myself. >.>
Anyway, it's confirmed that the old "Skin + Chips" recipes are changed, but does the same still hold true for "Skin + chips + dye" recipes? I would think those are still intact, but have heard no talk about the subject.
Anyone able to supply some input on this? :)
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