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What the heck happened to combat?Follow

#1 Oct 04 2011 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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I'm really unsure what is going on. I logged out yesterday with 1100 hp on my 21 pug. I logged in with 480. Oddly, I have MORE vit according to my attributes than when I left.

Ok, I say to myself, this isn't a big deal. They are re-structuring battles so mobs are probably just easier in comparison. NOPE. Did a leve, r21 and had my friend help who is r14 con. It was assassin's so I did it at 2 star. I had done it before the patch at 2 star solo with 0 difficulty. Needless to say, we WERE able to finish it... barely. Each mob took 2-3 minutes to kill, my attacks were missing CONSTANTLY, and each of their regular hits was doing 20-40 damage to my piddly 480, with WS eclipsing 200. My regular hits were for 8-20 crits, and WS for 60-130. We wiped to the final group and had to mop them up while weak.

I have no problem with making the game harder, in fact I encourage it. But I better see some reward for it. Unfortunately, since these assasins were only level 23, I netted 150 experience per mob (INCLUDING the chain bonus). Pre-patch I got 250 per at 2 star for battles that lasted 30 seconds tops.

I'm hoping SE just screwed something up, because if this is how the game is going to be, I can't imagine any new players sticking around.
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#2 Oct 04 2011 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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They said months ago battle would be longer, I feared for it, but people were too busy celebrating crafting nerf (oh yeah I feared for that too). Can I say "Hah hah" now? So much for wanting FFXI eh?
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#3 Oct 04 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Good
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this is a bit different. I just swapped to my r8 lnc to do some leves. I went to Horizon, chose my first leve against coblyns, set it to 1 star. Proceeded to get DESTROYED by coblyns. Couldn't even kill a single one before they massacred me. This is a 1 star r10 leve at r8. I think they severely messed up here.
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#4 Oct 04 2011 at 8:41 PM Rating: Default
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It also say on the patch note that guildleave difficult lvl have been fix so for solo it 1star for duo is 2star lol , would have been faster if u had another lvl20 & not a 14


I haven't log in yet so idk hopefully what ur saying isn't THAT bad :-X
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#5 Oct 04 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok, glad it's not just me. Went for a farming run in Mistbeard. I was barely able to get to my area for farming before. A Yarzon blocked the tunnel right at the opening. I figured no problem, he was +3 ranks on me. Nothing too big. That Yarzon bent me over and made me clutch my ankles. I barely put a dent in his health. All I could do is /cry. Anyway... I think I need a shower now.

Edited, Oct 4th 2011 10:45pm by Cthugga
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#6 Oct 04 2011 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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Something else I noticed in addition to this, I also posted it in another thread. But the penalty for not being an optimal class or being below the optimal level for gear is much harsher. Now if you aren't the optimal class OR level, you don't get the bonus stats at all. Previously you'd get partial.
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#7 Oct 04 2011 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day
#8 Oct 04 2011 at 8:59 PM Rating: Decent
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HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.
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#9 Oct 04 2011 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I did indeed, but do I need to point out this isn't FFXI? I poked around and check the stats on my Goblin Longsword +1. Prevously attack was 121, after patch it's 61. So everyone check your gear. It all got nerfed.
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#10 Oct 04 2011 at 9:01 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


That's what you get for people wanting FFXI-2. But then Yoshi-P "assured" this would not be FFXI-2 in the live interview.
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#11 Oct 04 2011 at 9:04 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


That's what you get for people wanting FFXI-2. But then Yoshi-P "assured" this would not be FFXI-2 in the live interview.

I was very much looking forward to getting back into playing this game. If, however, this new combat is "working as intended" there is absolutely no chance I will be coming back. Making it harder for low level players to level is an insanely stupid idea, and I can only believe this must be an oversight based on the fact that r50 chars seem to have an INSANE amount of hp (3500 for r50 glads). I think SE just severely messed up their formulas.
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#12 Oct 04 2011 at 9:06 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Khornette wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


That's what you get for people wanting FFXI-2. But then Yoshi-P "assured" this would not be FFXI-2 in the live interview.

I was very much looking forward to getting back into playing this game. If, however, this new combat is "working as intended" there is absolutely no chance I will be coming back. Making it harder for low level players to level is an insanely stupid idea, and I can only believe this must be an oversight based on the fact that r50 chars seem to have an INSANE amount of hp (3500 for r50 glads). I think SE just severely messed up their formulas.


Level 50s also have insanely low MP, with people reporting at lvl 50 they have much less MP than my r50 CON pre patch with 60 MND.

Edited, Oct 4th 2011 11:09pm by Khornette
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#13 Oct 04 2011 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Khornette wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


That's what you get for people wanting FFXI-2. But then Yoshi-P "assured" this would not be FFXI-2 in the live interview.

I was very much looking forward to getting back into playing this game. If, however, this new combat is "working as intended" there is absolutely no chance I will be coming back. Making it harder for low level players to level is an insanely stupid idea, and I can only believe this must be an oversight based on the fact that r50 chars seem to have an INSANE amount of hp (3500 for r50 glads). I think SE just severely messed up their formulas.


Level 50s also have insanely low MP, with people reporting at lvl 50 they have much less MP than my r50 CON post patch with 60 MND.


Even more reason to think this was some kind of mess up. If this were to stay as is, class unbalance would be ridiculous. Melee would be able to solo whatever they want just because they have so much HP. Throw on bloodbath and second wind and your golden. So either this is a MASSIVE nerf to low level players and mages, or something screwy is going on...
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#14 Oct 04 2011 at 9:16 PM Rating: Decent
So you're upset that you have to fight things at your level now? Yeah it's more difficult now, but unlike some I like a challenge.
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#15 Oct 04 2011 at 9:18 PM Rating: Default
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BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


Well that was stupid, Cant use sneak attack skillchain finish when solo, but come on, u know what i mean...and I know u didnt solo to 75 fighting even matches. ha, musta been after i played the game
#16 Oct 04 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
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BartelX wrote:
Khornette wrote:
BartelX wrote:
Khornette wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


That's what you get for people wanting FFXI-2. But then Yoshi-P "assured" this would not be FFXI-2 in the live interview.

I was very much looking forward to getting back into playing this game. If, however, this new combat is "working as intended" there is absolutely no chance I will be coming back. Making it harder for low level players to level is an insanely stupid idea, and I can only believe this must be an oversight based on the fact that r50 chars seem to have an INSANE amount of hp (3500 for r50 glads). I think SE just severely messed up their formulas.


Level 50s also have insanely low MP, with people reporting at lvl 50 they have much less MP than my r50 CON post patch with 60 MND.


Even more reason to think this was some kind of mess up. If this were to stay as is, class unbalance would be ridiculous. Melee would be able to solo whatever they want just because they have so much HP. Throw on bloodbath and second wind and your golden. So either this is a MASSIVE nerf to low level players and mages, or something screwy is going on...


Good thing I have the class I want at lvl50, so I don't have to be worried about finding a pt (not like it's a problem for me). For people who think it's more "difficult" and "challenging", mobs also do severely lower damage now, everything only last longer. I doubt Bartraal or even Ifrit could OHKO Mages like before.
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#17 Oct 04 2011 at 9:20 PM Rating: Decent
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If they ***** up , wouldn't they have said something by now..?!?

If it turn out like FFXI-2 , I'll be happy... I know I aint the only one that miss the FFXI golden days
( now if they add a real LFG system.. We'll be set lol)
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#18 Oct 04 2011 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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MutamixBubblypots wrote:
So you're upset that you have to fight things at your level now? Yeah it's more difficult now, but unlike some I like a challenge.


It has nothing to do with challenge. It has to do with time vs. reward. They pretty much just quadrupled the time it takes to level at low levels. Battles take far longer, but do not reward you more. More grind is not challenge. As I said in my first post, I'm all for a challenge. But make the rewards worth it, and they absolutely didn't do that. Not to mention, they just turned combat which used to be fun and somewhat fast paced at low levels and turned it into... me just trying to spam as many keys as I can in hopes that I'll be able to kill the mob before he 1-shots me with a WS. That's not challenge, that's annoying.
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#19 Oct 04 2011 at 9:25 PM Rating: Good
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HIGHTONE wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


Well that was stupid, Cant use sneak attack skillchain finish when solo, but come on, u know what i mean...and I know u didnt solo to 75 fighting even matches. ha, musta been after i played the game


If PS2 release is after you played, then I guess so. Clearly you have no clue what a good thf was capable of. I solo'd mostly DC-T mobs. Usually mandy's, beetles, or crabs (I hit 60 on thf before TAU came out). And yes, you can use sneak attack on anything that isn't sound aggro right at the beginning. You can also use hide once per 5 minutes. You can also use sleep bolts, run through the mob, then SA>WS it before it wakes up. At least know what you're talking about before you post. =/
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#20 Oct 04 2011 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
BartelX wrote:
MutamixBubblypots wrote:
So you're upset that you have to fight things at your level now? Yeah it's more difficult now, but unlike some I like a challenge.


It has nothing to do with challenge. It has to do with time vs. reward. They pretty much just quadrupled the time it takes to level at low levels. Battles take far longer, but do not reward you more. More grind is not challenge. As I said in my first post, I'm all for a challenge. But make the rewards worth it, and they absolutely didn't do that. Not to mention, they just turned combat which used to be fun and somewhat fast paced at low levels and turned it into... me just trying to spam as many keys as I can in hopes that I'll be able to kill the mob before he 1-shots me with a WS. That's not challenge, that's annoying.



It doesn't seem any longer to me. Seems about the same pace to me. Anyway I think we're all used having physical levels and now since they're gone we seem weaker.
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#21 Oct 04 2011 at 9:29 PM Rating: Default
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MutamixBubblypots wrote:
BartelX wrote:
MutamixBubblypots wrote:
So you're upset that you have to fight things at your level now? Yeah it's more difficult now, but unlike some I like a challenge.


It has nothing to do with challenge. It has to do with time vs. reward. They pretty much just quadrupled the time it takes to level at low levels. Battles take far longer, but do not reward you more. More grind is not challenge. As I said in my first post, I'm all for a challenge. But make the rewards worth it, and they absolutely didn't do that. Not to mention, they just turned combat which used to be fun and somewhat fast paced at low levels and turned it into... me just trying to spam as many keys as I can in hopes that I'll be able to kill the mob before he 1-shots me with a WS. That's not challenge, that's annoying.



It doesn't seem any longer to me. Seems about the same pace to me. Anyway I think we're all used having physical levels and now since they're gone we seem weaker.


what levels have you been fighting on? I noticed severely longer battles on my r21 pug and my r8 lnc. Perhaps it's different at higher levels, but at low levels kill speed just went out the window.
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#22 Oct 04 2011 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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MutamixBubblypots wrote:
BartelX wrote:
MutamixBubblypots wrote:
So you're upset that you have to fight things at your level now? Yeah it's more difficult now, but unlike some I like a challenge.


It has nothing to do with challenge. It has to do with time vs. reward. They pretty much just quadrupled the time it takes to level at low levels. Battles take far longer, but do not reward you more. More grind is not challenge. As I said in my first post, I'm all for a challenge. But make the rewards worth it, and they absolutely didn't do that. Not to mention, they just turned combat which used to be fun and somewhat fast paced at low levels and turned it into... me just trying to spam as many keys as I can in hopes that I'll be able to kill the mob before he 1-shots me with a WS. That's not challenge, that's annoying.



It doesn't seem any longer to me. Seems about the same pace to me. Anyway I think we're all used having physical levels and now since they're gone we seem weaker.


I don't know what you've been fighting but I doubt that, at any level. Pre-patch with the right equipment, stat etc. you can kill anything 5 levels higher than you, including dreaded Mongrel or Drake, in less than a minute. Leve-ones are incredibly easier, with Mongrels any less than 8 levels above you can be killed in 25 secs and lower.

Also, pre-patch things like Drake can OHKO Mages who has low VIT quite easily. I doubt that is the case now, with people reporting mobs do 1/4 of the previous dmg and you have like twice the HP.

Edited, Oct 4th 2011 11:32pm by Khornette
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#23 Oct 04 2011 at 9:35 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


Well that was stupid, Cant use sneak attack skillchain finish when solo, but come on, u know what i mean...and I know u didnt solo to 75 fighting even matches. ha, musta been after i played the game


If PS2 release is after you played, then I guess so. Clearly you have no clue what a good thf was capable of. I solo'd mostly DC-T mobs. Usually mandy's, beetles, or crabs (I hit 60 on thf before TAU came out). And yes, you can use sneak attack on anything that isn't sound aggro right at the beginning. You can also use hide once per 5 minutes. You can also use sleep bolts, run through the mob, then SA>WS it before it wakes up. At least know what you're talking about before you post. =/



Not saying its impossible, just saying its not worth it.. Try BST to 75 years before TAU came out :P, now that was a fun challenge. My most enjoyable times as THF(didnt take it very far) were using SC in party, cant believe u missed most of that, sorry BartelX, just in a fuzzy mood, didnt wanna offend u!
#24 Oct 04 2011 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
MutamixBubblypots wrote:
BartelX wrote:
MutamixBubblypots wrote:
So you're upset that you have to fight things at your level now? Yeah it's more difficult now, but unlike some I like a challenge.


It has nothing to do with challenge. It has to do with time vs. reward. They pretty much just quadrupled the time it takes to level at low levels. Battles take far longer, but do not reward you more. More grind is not challenge. As I said in my first post, I'm all for a challenge. But make the rewards worth it, and they absolutely didn't do that. Not to mention, they just turned combat which used to be fun and somewhat fast paced at low levels and turned it into... me just trying to spam as many keys as I can in hopes that I'll be able to kill the mob before he 1-shots me with a WS. That's not challenge, that's annoying.



It doesn't seem any longer to me. Seems about the same pace to me. Anyway I think we're all used having physical levels and now since they're gone we seem weaker.


I don't know what you've been fighting but I doubt that, at any level. Pre-patch with the right equipment, stat etc. you can kill anything 5 levels higher than you, including dreaded Mongrel or Drake, in less than a minute. Leve-ones are incredibly easier, with Mongrels any less than 8 levels above you can be killed in 25 secs and lower.

Also, pre-patch things like Drake can OHKO Mages who has low VIT quite easily. I doubt that is the case now, with people reporting mobs do 1/4 of the previous dmg and you have like twice the HP.

Edited, Oct 4th 2011 11:32pm by Khornette



So basically what they did was make the higher levels extremely easy, and the lower levels incredibly hard... wait, what?
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#25 Oct 04 2011 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
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Anyone take into account that *maybe* they changed the mechanics a bit and want us to party a different way then we're used to? I say *we* but I actually haven't in over 6 months. I say this to say, people complained about the battle system the way it was. We wanted party based play and a challenge. Something with skill or whatever. Maybe this is encouraging us to play a way that wasn't feasible before.

Fight lower level mobs solo... bring more people to fight the mobs you feel you should be able to solo. Try something new. For all we know this new system may work ridiculously well once the job system is released. I'm just saying think outside the box. Not trying to spark an argument I'm just posing an option. I'd like to know myself. I'm coming back with practically a clean slate. I don't have clue how anything is supposed to work. But I'm about to take this 14 conjurer out for a spin and find out lol. If anyone is on Gyshal please say hi. I don't like playing MMO's solo :-( lol
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#26 Oct 04 2011 at 9:41 PM Rating: Good
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HIGHTONE wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
BartelX wrote:
HIGHTONE wrote:
guess u never tried to fight an even match in ff11 at rank 40 or so back in the day


Actually, I played ffxi for 6 years and solo'd my thf almost exclusively from 1-75, so yeah... actually I have. If I had wanted this game to be a clone of ffxi, I'd be playing ffxi. Not being able to do r10 leves at r8 is pretty inexcusable imo.


Well that was stupid, Cant use sneak attack skillchain finish when solo, but come on, u know what i mean...and I know u didnt solo to 75 fighting even matches. ha, musta been after i played the game


If PS2 release is after you played, then I guess so. Clearly you have no clue what a good thf was capable of. I solo'd mostly DC-T mobs. Usually mandy's, beetles, or crabs (I hit 60 on thf before TAU came out). And yes, you can use sneak attack on anything that isn't sound aggro right at the beginning. You can also use hide once per 5 minutes. You can also use sleep bolts, run through the mob, then SA>WS it before it wakes up. At least know what you're talking about before you post. =/



Not saying its impossible, just saying its not worth it.. Try BST to 75 years before TAU came out :P, now that was a fun challenge. My most enjoyable times as THF(didnt take it very far) were using SC in party, cant believe u missed most of that, sorry BartelX, just in a fuzzy mood, didnt wanna offend u!


You didn't, don't worry. I didn't exclusively solo... just almost exclusively. I got to SC at 33 w/ Viper Bite just like every other thf. I probably was in an xp party about once every couple of levels or so. I say almost exclusively because obviously it took longer to solo than for party xp and the VAST majority of my time was soloing. That being said, I did it for the challenge and sheer enjoyment of it. Everyone plays the game for what they like, I like to solo or low man really hard content. That's just always been my thing. However, I don't want it to feel like some epic battle against a level 11 marmot at level 8. Heck, in ffxi I would have lasted more than 3 hits...
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#27 Oct 04 2011 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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That being said, I did it for the challenge and sheer enjoyment of it. Everyone plays the game for what they like, I like to solo or low man really hard content. That's just always been my thing. However, I don't want it to feel like some epic battle against a level 11 marmot at level 8. Heck, in ffxi I would have lasted more than 3 hits...


Perhaps this is a new challenge. It may not be like they are totally changing combat, but perhaps making us regard it in a different way. That being said, I could imagine this would be extremely frustrating for some players. Those who have stuck around and become accustomed to the previous form of development and how it effects your character's ability in battle.

From what I have read (mostly while lurking I might add), it seems like these 'changes' could be heading in an appropriate direction. As if they are re-vamping combat at its foundation to allow for further advanced development.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing with what anyone has said, but, just sharing my thoughts of the changes. I wonder how people (and I mean ALL people) who play the game will feel a week from now.



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#28 Oct 04 2011 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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i thought ranking up was unbearably slow pre-patch... just logging in now, but I suspect I will not appreciate any changes which make battle slower.
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When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#29 Oct 04 2011 at 10:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ok. Went looking around for different leveled mobs to fight and finally found some wind elementals 1 level below me. The fight did take longer but I didn't really take much dmg at at as opposed to the Yarzon that reamed me and I netted about 300 sp per kill. I'm guessing things have been adjusted so that for solo play you really only want to kill things 1-2 levels above you. More of a gap than that and you are going to get trounced.
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#30 Oct 04 2011 at 10:12 PM Rating: Good
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Olorinus wrote:
i thought ranking up was unbearably slow pre-patch... just logging in now, but I suspect I will not appreciate any changes which make battle slower.

Pre-patch I thought ranking up was incredibly slow as well. I was really looking forward to the implementation of experience points chains for defeating monsters higher level than you but quickly found that I can't even solo monsters +1-2 levels on me (this is on my rank 15 THM).

Earlier today prior to the patch going live I was killing level 17 dodos for about 1,000 experience points a pop. With the patch changes, I can *slowly* kill level 12 dodos, earning about 100 experience points each. To make matters worse, I have to rest for 30-45 seconds between fights to regenerate enough HP and MP to continue fighting.

I feel like SE took a huge step in the wrong direction here. Not only do I feel like my ability to solo has flown out the window (which is not fun) but reaching level 50 seems even FARTHER away than it did before.

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#31 Oct 04 2011 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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The game's actually somewhat of a challenge now!? Woah, maybe my spouse and I will actually log on again! :D
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#32 Oct 04 2011 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
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TaruHunk wrote:
Anyone take into account that *maybe* they changed the mechanics a bit and want us to party a different way then we're used to? I say *we* but I actually haven't in over 6 months. I say this to say, people complained about the battle system the way it was. We wanted party based play and a challenge. Something with skill or whatever. Maybe this is encouraging us to play a way that wasn't feasible before.

Fight lower level mobs solo... bring more people to fight the mobs you feel you should be able to solo. Try something new. For all we know this new system may work ridiculously well once the job system is released. I'm just saying think outside the box. Not trying to spark an argument I'm just posing an option. I'd like to know myself. I'm coming back with practically a clean slate. I don't have clue how anything is supposed to work. But I'm about to take this 14 conjurer out for a spin and find out lol. If anyone is on Gyshal please say hi. I don't like playing MMO's solo :-( lol

I would have put it a little differently myself, but there is something to be said for this. It's possible that the change is a push toward a more party-centric play style, with a harsher view on soloing than it has historically had. I'd say it's a pretty good bet that party exp has gotten much better between links and chains. I say "I'd say it's a pretty good bet" because my new apartment uses an in-house network security system and I can't forward my ports anymore, so I'm stuck in the slow lane (I could probably get around the security and forward the ports anyway, but I happen to like being on my landlord's good side).

This is kind of a slap in the face to casual and semi-casual players like myself, and those who just like to solo, but it's a valid direction. I can definitely live with it as long as it's still fun to exp one way or another (not to mention I'm working on my DoH right now, so it won't apply to me much until I get back on the LNC wagon).
#33 Oct 04 2011 at 10:16 PM Rating: Good
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Just for reference. Just went out solo in Uldah fighting coblyns. A level 3 coblyn took me 35 seconds to kill at rank 8. It rewarded me with 75 exp. Pre-patch I killed them in 10-15s for more like 100sp. A level 9 coblyn would have killed me if I didn't spam 2 potions. The battle took me well over a minute and I gained a whopping 181 xp. Yeah, I'm sorry but this system for low level players is awful.
Quote:

This is kind of a slap in the face to casual and semi-casual players like myself, and those who just like to solo, but it's a valid direction. I can definitely live with it as long as it's still fun to exp one way or another (not to mention I'm working on my DoH right now, so it won't apply to me much until I get back on the LNC wagon).


I disagree. It's not a valid direction if it completely shuns part of your playerbase. Like it or not, there are a large amount of players in an mmo that like to solo. Don't get me wrong, I like to party too. It's enjoyable. But I don't ALWAYS want to party. If they are turning this into a game where you really HAVE to party to effectively level, they have just lost my business forever. Like I said, I don't want a ffxi clone. It makes me really sad to see the game heading in this direction.

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 12:19am by BartelX
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#34 Oct 04 2011 at 10:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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KaneKitty wrote:
The game's actually somewhat of a challenge now!? Woah, maybe my spouse and I will actually log on again! :D

I would have gladly welcomed an increase in challenge, but the changes make my character feel down-right gimped.
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#35 Oct 04 2011 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hulan wrote:
TaruHunk wrote:
Anyone take into account that *maybe* they changed the mechanics a bit and want us to party a different way then we're used to? I say *we* but I actually haven't in over 6 months. I say this to say, people complained about the battle system the way it was. We wanted party based play and a challenge. Something with skill or whatever. Maybe this is encouraging us to play a way that wasn't feasible before.

Fight lower level mobs solo... bring more people to fight the mobs you feel you should be able to solo. Try something new. For all we know this new system may work ridiculously well once the job system is released. I'm just saying think outside the box. Not trying to spark an argument I'm just posing an option. I'd like to know myself. I'm coming back with practically a clean slate. I don't have clue how anything is supposed to work. But I'm about to take this 14 conjurer out for a spin and find out lol. If anyone is on Gyshal please say hi. I don't like playing MMO's solo :-( lol

I would have put it a little differently myself, but there is something to be said for this. It's possible that the change is a push toward a more party-centric play style, with a harsher view on soloing than it has historically had. I'd say it's a pretty good bet that party exp has gotten much better between links and chains. I say "I'd say it's a pretty good bet" because my new apartment uses an in-house network security system and I can't forward my ports anymore, so I'm stuck in the slow lane (I could probably get around the security and forward the ports anyway, but I happen to like being on my landlord's good side).

This is kind of a slap in the face to casual and semi-casual players like myself, and those who just like to solo, but it's a valid direction. I can definitely live with it as long as it's still fun to exp one way or another (not to mention I'm working on my DoH right now, so it won't apply to me much until I get back on the LNC wagon).


Yeah... apparently I offended somebody because I was rated down but... whatever lol. I really think they're trying to move it to a more party-centered play style. I"m sure solo isn't totally done away with, but I think parties are where it's at now. Like seriously, if you look at the new mob placement... they're all gathered together now. It's even mentioned in the update notes. I don't know anyone in game at the moment to test out this theory, but it seems like the only logical explanation.

I know a lot of people want a community. FFXI was very community driven because you actually had to party with 5 others if you wanted to level quickly past 10-11. FFXIV seemed to lack that and it doesn't appear that anyone talks to each other. I think it's a step in the right direction, but it's up to us as players to EMBRACE it and try to like it without dismissing it as failed. Yoshi-P and the rest of the development team have obviously put a WHOLE lot of work into this over the past year. And yes feedback is required. It's fine to NOT like the changes, but at the same time if you love the game you'll try and find a different approach to it and see how that works too. I for one am very interested in finding out the most optimal way to exp post patch 1.19. I just hope everyone is excited as I am! ^_^
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Theonehio wrote:
PsylockePhoenix wrote:
I apoligize if it came off wrong, in my head it didnt sound argumentive.


You're on Allah, just posting can be turned into an argument.
#36 Oct 04 2011 at 10:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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Again, I can't log in yet, but a quick question, is it possible that you guys are using gear far above your level (since you are having trouble at lower levels)? There are a lot of variables that have changed in this update. It could be any combination of them that is causing the difficulty. Also, they removed the exp bonus for certain families, maybe try fighting something squishier?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm just shooting into the dark here with possible reasons. It's not necessarily a nerf at this point, since so much has changed. It's possible we just haven't grasped the scope of the changes yet.
#37 Oct 04 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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BartelX wrote:
Just for reference. Just went out solo in Uldah fighting coblyns. A level 3 coblyn took me 35 seconds to kill at rank 8. It rewarded me with 75 exp. Pre-patch I killed them in 10-15s for more like 100sp. A level 9 coblyn would have killed me if I didn't spam 2 potions. The battle took me well over a minute and I gained a whopping 181 xp. Yeah, I'm sorry but this system for low level players is awful.
Quote:

This is kind of a slap in the face to casual and semi-casual players like myself, and those who just like to solo, but it's a valid direction. I can definitely live with it as long as it's still fun to exp one way or another (not to mention I'm working on my DoH right now, so it won't apply to me much until I get back on the LNC wagon).


I disagree. It's not a valid direction if it completely shuns part of your playerbase. Like it or not, there are a large amount of players in an mmo that like to solo. Don't get me wrong, I like to party too. It's enjoyable. But I don't ALWAYS want to party. If they are turning this into a game where you really HAVE to party to effectively level, they have just lost my business forever. Like I said, I don't want a ffxi clone. It makes me really sad to see the game heading in this direction.

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 12:19am by BartelX


In my opinion, shouldn't partying be faster than solo? I don't think solo should be at all without merit... but this is a Final Fantasy game. Even in the single player games you've gone through the game in parties. EXP parties are the foundation to which you learn to use your abilities with the abilities of the other classes/jobs to take down opponents. It wouldn't be FF without that aspect in my opinion.

It only seems right that partying should yield bigger bonuses than solo play. Without partying being faster, what forces people to communicate? To make friends and help build the game community? Are we just supposed to get together at rank 50 for the big end game fights and learn how a CNJ, THM, Gladiator & Pug combine their skills to effectively take down bosses? I'm sorry, but party play needs to be emphasized. Yes, soloing should be a valid option as well but party play needs to take center stage.

Not saying you're wrong, and once again this is all just my opinion, but I'd like you to give the current circumstances another thought. Though it's inevitable that everyone won't be pleased as they COMPLETELY rework the game mechanics as we play, it's a must that they change it up. FFXIV is becoming an entirely different game before our EYES from what it was a year ago. I expect it to all work out and be a GOOD game. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but if it's a good game I'll be satisfied. I'm not here for MAJORITY solo play in an MMO. I want to play with others, otherwise I'd replay the console FF's. If it turns out to be mainly solo, I'd prolly quit. But if other's enjoy it and it thrives... I'm happy for it. But... I still think we should wait and see the intended direction before we call foul.
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Theonehio wrote:
PsylockePhoenix wrote:
I apoligize if it came off wrong, in my head it didnt sound argumentive.


You're on Allah, just posting can be turned into an argument.
#38 Oct 04 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
If they have made combat more party orientated, I have to ask, did they update the seek party function? If not, then this is kind of fail for now.
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#39 Oct 04 2011 at 10:33 PM Rating: Good
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Montsegurnephcreep wrote:
If they have made combat more party orientated, I have to ask, did they update the seek party function? If not, then this is kind of fail for now.


Eh... I'd have to agree to this though... lol.
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Theonehio wrote:
PsylockePhoenix wrote:
I apoligize if it came off wrong, in my head it didnt sound argumentive.


You're on Allah, just posting can be turned into an argument.
#40 Oct 04 2011 at 10:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I know a lot of people want a community. FFXI was very community driven because you actually had to party with 5 others if you wanted to level quickly past 10-11. FFXIV seemed to lack that and it doesn't appear that anyone talks to each other. I think it's a step in the right direction, but it's up to us as players to EMBRACE it and try to like it without dismissing it as failed. Yoshi-P and the rest of the development team have obviously put a WHOLE lot of work into this over the past year. And yes feedback is required. It's fine to NOT like the changes, but at the same time if you love the game you'll try and find a different approach to it and see how that works too. I for one am very interested in finding out the most optimal way to exp post patch 1.19. I just hope everyone is excited as I am! ^_^


You can have a sense of community without completing ruining the solo experience. All they have to do is fix all the problems with Linkshells (which should have been done MONTHS ago) and implement a WORKING party seek function (which also should have been implemented months ago). If there idea of making a community is to nerf the solo players to the point that they HAVE to party up, then that is an absolutely awful strategy and one I certainly won't play.

As for the gear, I'm using my r1 lance and starter gear still at r8, so that's not the problem. Just got absolutely OWNED by a level 9 squirrel. Footkick hit me for 90 damage, then 110 damage back to back. Yeah, sure is fun.
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#41 Oct 04 2011 at 10:37 PM Rating: Decent
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BartelX wrote:
As for the gear, I'm using my r1 lance and starter gear still at r8, so that's not the problem. Just got absolutely OWNED by a level 9 squirrel. Footkick hit me for 90 damage, then 110 damage back to back. Yeah, sure is fun.


By level 8 in FFXI... I surely couldn't take a Tough... Even Match was kind of up in the air. And yeah I know this isn't XI... but maybe taking down some mobs that are a level or two lower might net the close to the same xp/hr. It's worth a shot.
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Theonehio wrote:
PsylockePhoenix wrote:
I apoligize if it came off wrong, in my head it didnt sound argumentive.


You're on Allah, just posting can be turned into an argument.
#42 Oct 04 2011 at 10:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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#43 Oct 04 2011 at 10:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Launch random SP = YOU MUST PARTY TO RANK UP
November 2010 patch static SP = Doblyn woohoo!
March 2011 patch SP = Abandon Leve!
July 2011 1.18 = 5 Stars 5 Stars speed run
Now 1.19 SP changed to EXP = YOU MUST PARTY TO LEVEL UP

Oh snap it's a full cycle.
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#44 Oct 04 2011 at 10:49 PM Rating: Good
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TaruHunk wrote:
BartelX wrote:
As for the gear, I'm using my r1 lance and starter gear still at r8, so that's not the problem. Just got absolutely OWNED by a level 9 squirrel. Footkick hit me for 90 damage, then 110 damage back to back. Yeah, sure is fun.


By level 8 in FFXI... I surely couldn't take a Tough... Even Match was kind of up in the air. And yeah I know this isn't XI... but maybe taking down some mobs that are a level or two lower might net the close to the same xp/hr. It's worth a shot.


Why. Why would you even bring up the comparison. This game isn't FFXI. Perhaps you want it to be, I don't. I played that game. I got bored with it. I went back for Abyssea. I got bored with that.

And no, they don't net the same xp/hr. I tried fighting level 3 mobs. They took 3x longer than before and yielded less xp. I tried mobs my level. They almost kill me and take forever to kill. I tried mobs above my level. I died... horribly. Really, the only thing I can imagine that would net decent xp is if I got a party and chained. Honestly, that's the only way now to make decent gains. If that's how SE wants it to be, fine. They are going to lose a lot of business. I was excited for this patch and the direction of the game, but not if low-mid level combat stays the way it is now. I want the option to solo, and I don't think that's too much to ask. I love that parties are a better way of getting xp, as they should be. But soloing doesn't have to be nerfed to the point of complete inefficiency.
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#45 Oct 04 2011 at 10:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hmmm, in that case, I'm forced to admit that this does indeed sound grim. Not the general direction, as I think that that is fine for higher levels particularly, but the specific problem here; that is, low level exp. It's possible things like Materia and parties or some other thing I can't think of due to sleep deprivation will remedy all of this. But even if that is the case, none of those options will be available to new players, which are the life-blood of the game.

From the sounds of it, you are playing pretty much the same way a brand new player would be able to (worse even, since I imagine you have a plethora of ability choices from other classes). I can only conclude, contrary my original position, that if something is not done about this difficulty at low levels, they are going to have a serious problem attracting new blood. Which in turn, is a serious problem for the game as a whole.
#46 Oct 04 2011 at 11:04 PM Rating: Good
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I just need to wait till my LS miner put out Cobalt Ore and we will be happily overcharging new players/people who don't craft because dated equipment sucks.

Oh snap, that means the stuff I spent hours running Darkhold now also sucks. ARRRRRGHHHHHHHH
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#47 Oct 04 2011 at 11:06 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
I just need to wait till my LS miner put out Cobalt Ore and we will be happily overcharging new players/people who don't craft because dated equipment sucks.

Oh snap, that means the stuff I spent hours running Darkhold now also sucks. ARRRRRGHHHHHHHH


Awesome, yet another way to stick it to the new players! I'm glad SE is looking to expand their playerbase. =P
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#48 Oct 04 2011 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I love soloing but as long as i can do leve's i'm okay. I don't know anyone pre patch that soloed for exp in the field after level 15 anyway, and i personally thought the pace of 1-20 was way too fast from the pace set between 20-50. Materia crafting also sounds like a great way to increase your characters attributes. And if i'm not mistaken batral your physical level is 50. I remember being a low level marauder and struggling to complete several bloodshore leve's solo at levels 17 18 and 19, but with decent equipment and matria idk i'm betting it isn't going to be tough to complete the leve's.

I will agree though, without better communication tools this patch isn't going to help ffxiv much.
#49 Oct 04 2011 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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Khornette wrote:
Launch random SP = YOU MUST PARTY TO RANK UP
November 2010 patch static SP = Doblyn woohoo!
March 2011 patch SP = Abandon Leve!
July 2011 1.18 = 5 Stars 5 Stars speed run
Now 1.19 SP changed to EXP = YOU MUST PARTY TO LEVEL UP

Oh snap it's a full cycle.

Pretty much this. I was getting 50k xp an hour earlier in an alliance of 15 and we weren't even trying to get xp. We were trying to kill the nm flamefist. XP is faster now if you party up, which I think SE wants us to do....
#50 Oct 04 2011 at 11:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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This really isn't very fun at all now. I can't remember the last time I had been this excited for a XIV patch, but now I just feel kind of let down.
Rank 22 Pugilist, all but three pieces of gear are Optimal rank(and those three are all one level above me).
519 HP/342 MP.
On the plus side, that is a bit more then 100 more MP that I had when I logged off a few hours ago.
But Cure's are even less effective now, so it doesn't any real difference.

Somehow only had two Rank 20 Leves available(Part of the new system I guess) so I took "An enemy in the Orchards."
Eight Foraging Does and two more spawn after those. Does have always hit pretty hard, but while their attacks have scaled in damage a bit, it's still pretty **** rough to deal with, especially when I now only hit for about 10-13 per punch, and WS's not even breaking 100 damage.

It used to take me about 10-12 minutes to clear these out at 2* or above, but this time it took me close to 19 minutes to kill them all. My end of leve reward was 1,180 SP(Well exp now I guess) which isn't much of a dent in the 20,000 or so needed to reach 23.
That's really slow. Really insanely slow. There was something off about my TP gain as well. I couldn't seem to get to 2000 in a reasonable amount of time at all, so was never able to use Victimize(Which I may as well remove anyways with the new minute recast).
I don't know how I'm even going to get to 25 at a decent rate(I have 4 quests I can do at the moment, which is about 5k total) let alone reaching 50 any time soon. This is all just sort of depressing really.

Soloing is about my only option, as I never see people like, move, or talk anywhere(Even Ul'Dah, besides the occasional JP shout). And it doesn't look like it's much of an option right now.
I understand wanting to push the party aspect of the game a bit more, but by doing it in this way, they are sort of ******** over a good chunk of the more casual players or those that just like soloing at a decent rate.
Just really hoping this is not working as intended.
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#51 Oct 04 2011 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/25528-Bowl-of-Embers-%28Hyper%29-THANK-YOU-SE?p=371527&viewfull=1#post371527

Now aint I glad I picked LNC and ARC as my main? Whatever way SE going, I'm the DD/DPS woo hoo. With CRP to make my own shiny too.

Though I'm still mad at them for crapping out my less-than a week new Yew Crook +2 >_> /ragequit
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