Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

I tried to give the patch a fair shakeFollow

#1 Oct 04 2011 at 11:29 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
And then my client crashed... repeatedly.

____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#2 Oct 04 2011 at 11:46 PM Rating: Excellent
**
266 posts
Mine didn't. Like at all. Played for around 5 hours tonight. Good luck getting in!
#3 Oct 04 2011 at 11:52 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
16,959 posts
I crashed getting into the wards, and then again as soon as I logged back in.

***** that.



Initial reaction to the patch seems to be mixed, but I guess I'll wait a few days to check it out.
____________________________
MyAnimeList FFXIV Krystal Spoonless
#4 Oct 05 2011 at 12:31 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
***
1,523 posts
Got bluescreen in Hall of Flames :(
____________________________
____(>°°)D_->__(O°°)>-_<(;,,;)>_C-(°°Q)__O~~_t(°°<)_(;o0)___<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_____

#5 Oct 05 2011 at 1:34 AM Rating: Good
**
465 posts
Stability in/around the wards has been a real problem, if it's possible I'd avoid them for now.
____________________________
Lodestone
#6 Oct 05 2011 at 8:34 AM Rating: Good
Sorry to hear that Olo.

I gave up troubleshooting the patcher so now I just wait 24 hours or so for that turtle to cross the finish line. Started at 8:00pm and it's about 60% when I left for work at 8:30am. (I bought a new router to get rid of 30002 Error, but that model does not forwards 55,000+ ports.) *sigh*

Hopefully when it's done I won't get the crashes reported here.

How the crap are they going to pull this of for the casual PS3 users? Answer: They won't. PS3 users will take one look at 24+ download times and return FFXIV to Gamestop demanding their money back (or at least store credit please).

The payment method, patcher and overall game stability needs to be a focus of the new design team before they try to foist this crap off on casual users.

#7 Oct 05 2011 at 8:36 AM Rating: Good
Avatar
**
588 posts
No issues here. I was completely patched and playing without issues in under 90 minutes. I haven't crashed yet.

Hate me if you like... :P
____________________________



#8 Oct 05 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
**
941 posts
0 crashes or problems - updated completely in 45 minutes or so - maybe less. I didn't watch it - was doing dishes downstairs and when I came back... it was done.
#9 Oct 05 2011 at 10:17 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
562 posts
kainsilv wrote:
No issues here. I was completely patched and playing without issues in under 90 minutes. I haven't crashed yet.

Hate me if you like... :P


60mbps connection and I'm barely at 20% downloaded after 90 minutes, what's your secret?

For comparison purposes, I can usually download 5+ GB games off Steam in less than 15 minutes.
____________________________
FFXIV - Fellows - Fabul
FFXI - Fellows - Gilgamesh


#10 Oct 05 2011 at 10:27 AM Rating: Decent
**
557 posts
I assume it's that router port-forwarding trick. Just open the torrent file in uTorrent or another client, and you'll be fine.
____________________________


#11 Oct 05 2011 at 10:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Avatar
*
216 posts
Seems to be off and on for me: after an hour using the patcher it was at 70%, which is pretty good for me. Unfortunately now it's slowed to a crawl.
____________________________
Lodestone Profile: Kainase Tyrosin (Besaid)
LS:
#12 Oct 05 2011 at 11:11 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
Kirby the Eccentric wrote:
I crashed getting into the wards, and then again as soon as I logged back in.

***** that.


Initial reaction to the patch seems to be mixed, but I guess I'll wait a few days to check it out.



Yeah it was the wards that did me in. I crashed and then game wouldn't let me back in.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#13 Oct 05 2011 at 11:13 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
Whales wrote:
kainsilv wrote:
No issues here. I was completely patched and playing without issues in under 90 minutes. I haven't crashed yet.

Hate me if you like... :P


60mbps connection and I'm barely at 20% downloaded after 90 minutes, what's your secret?

For comparison purposes, I can usually download 5+ GB games off Steam in less than 15 minutes.


Torrent it. If you look in the metainfo folder - it CONTAINS a torrent. I just click it, turn off the "official" updater, allow a non-sucky torrent client to do its thing - and copy the patch into the appropriate "patch" folder.

People have tried to tell me that the patcher sucking is somehow my fault, but the fact is that something that takes me 20 mins to download on torrent SHOULD NOT take 24 hours with the real patcher. Something about it is borked and Smashington is 100% correct. If they don't fix it for PS3 users they will lose a lot of customers right off the bat.

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 10:23am by Olorinus
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#14 Oct 05 2011 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
**
941 posts
I don't torrent anything - ever - and have never. I don't use any external downloading programs on my PC.

I literally double clicked FFXIV, then clicked OK for the Updater thing and was done within the hour.

I have 10mb Comcast in the Southeast USA. Had lots of hosts when I did it - and I don't port forward or do anything to removing bandwith capping (like some folks do for WoW) for download/uploading.

LARGE EDIT FOR MAD PERSON:

I WAS RESPONDING TO YFAITHFULLY BUT DID NOT QUOTE HIM. PLEASE FORGIVE ME I WAS SIMPLY STATING THE PARAMETERS OF MY SUCCESSFUL DOWNLOAD. WORK FOR TECH SUPPORT - BAD HABIT - PLS NO MORE MAD.

edit:

What I am trying to say is - it could be an ISP issue rather then a client issue. Although the Market Ward thing is a known issue - so that's a brick wall if you're there.

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 1:18pm by EmotionBlues

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 3:52pm by EmotionBlues
#15 Oct 05 2011 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
EmotionBlues wrote:
I don't torrent anything - ever - and have never.
The REASON there is a torrent file in the XIV folders is BECAUSE the official updater IS A TORRENT CLIENT. SO YES, you HAVE torrented things.

And I don't care WHY the official patcher doesn't work for me, the fact is, it is unacceptable that it doesn't. If it was an ISP thing then why does the download go 50 times faster with Utorrent than with SE's crappy updater? My ISP isn't the problem, or I wouldn't be able to torrent it faster with an outside program.

Fact of the matter is, if SE can't even get basic crap like downloading updates right, then they don't have a hope in **** of ever turning this ship around.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#16 Oct 05 2011 at 11:32 AM Rating: Excellent
***
1,083 posts
Still too much running around. I feel my life draining away while I endure the 10 real minute choco ride to my next quest destination. Then I have a 30 fight and 30 second cutscene and I have to run 20 min back to the city for a 30 second text blip. This is an improvement I guess.
____________________________
Wada: "There may be some areas of testing that were lacking or too rigid."
#17 Oct 05 2011 at 11:39 AM Rating: Excellent
Anterograde Amnesia
Avatar
*****
12,363 posts
rikkuotaku wrote:
Still too much running around. I feel my life draining away while I endure the 10 real minute choco ride to my next quest destination. Then I have a 30 fight and 30 second cutscene and I have to run 20 min back to the city for a 30 second text blip. This is an improvement I guess.


No teleport?
____________________________
"Choosy MMO's choose Wint." - Louiscool
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he didn't exist.
Keyser Soze - Ultros
Guide to Setting Up Mumble on a Raspberry Pi
#18 Oct 05 2011 at 12:20 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
*
221 posts
EmotionBlues wrote:
I don't torrent anything - ever - and have never. I don't use any external downloading programs on my PC.

I literally double clicked FFXIV, then clicked OK for the Updater thing and was done within the hour.

I have 10mb Comcast in the Southeast USA. Had lots of hosts when I did it - and I don't port forward or do anything to removing bandwith capping (like some folks do for WoW) for download/uploading.

edit:

What I am trying to say is - it could be an ISP issue rather then a client issue. Although the Market Ward thing is a known issue - so that's a brick wall if you're there.

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 1:18pm by EmotionBlues



Lol, yeah as others have already mentioned , the FFXIV updater is simply a bittorent client. It's just my theory, but the reason it might be so slow compared to taking the torrent file and using an external program such as uTorrent is that perhaps the FFXIV downloader has hardcoded limits for seeding/leeching amounts in an attempt to try and keep people's up/down ratio close to 1 . I've noticed using the FFXIV downloader that often your upload speed is very fast while your download speed is almost zero, and then after a while your download speed goes up for a while, and then this sort of goes back and forth throughout the download process. If you are using an external program such as uTorrent, these limits are options you can set but not enforced by default. While it's considered courteous to seed until your ratio is at least close to one, it is not enforced anywhere (the tracker can of course ban your IP for doing too many "hit-and-runs"). Just my guess, but I think the FFXIV torrent client has these limits hard-coded somehow.

And yeah, the concept of torrenting is nothing to be "feared" or "avoided" as opposed to downloading files in any other fashion. Torrenting has sort of gotten a bad rap because it's become sort of the standard way of distributing pirated games, movies, etc. but in the end it's just a means of file delivery. Lots of big companies use torrents to distribute files - i.e. if you go and download a copy of Fedora from RedHat, they offer it via torrent. If you're still concerned about running torrents, run it in a virtual machine or get something like SandieBox to run it in a sandboxed environment.
____________________________

#19 Oct 05 2011 at 12:34 PM Rating: Default
**
557 posts
zpanda wrote:
Lol, yeah as others have already mentioned , the FFXIV updater is simply a bittorent client. It's just my theory, but the reason it might be so slow compared to taking the torrent file and using an external program such as uTorrent is that perhaps the FFXIV downloader has hardcoded limits for seeding/leeching amounts in an attempt to try and keep people's up/down ratio close to 1 . I've noticed using the FFXIV downloader that often your upload speed is very fast while your download speed is almost zero, and then after a while your download speed goes up for a while, and then this sort of goes back and forth throughout the download process. If you are using an external program such as uTorrent, these limits are options you can set but not enforced by default. While it's considered courteous to seed until your ratio is at least close to one, it is not enforced anywhere (the tracker can of course ban your IP for doing too many "hit-and-runs"). Just my guess, but I think the FFXIV torrent client has these limits hard-coded somehow.

And yeah, the concept of torrenting is nothing to be "feared" or "avoided" as opposed to downloading files in any other fashion. Torrenting has sort of gotten a bad rap because it's become sort of the standard way of distributing pirated games, movies, etc. but in the end it's just a means of file delivery. Lots of big companies use torrents to distribute files - i.e. if you go and download a copy of Fedora from RedHat, they offer it via torrent. If you're still concerned about running torrents, run it in a virtual machine or get something like SandieBox to run it in a sandboxed environment.

I've suspected this as well, and, if true, then the more people who use third party torrent programs with no caps, the worse the issue will be for people using the official patcher, as people who aren't uploading much will be soaking up the ever-shrinking pool of available seeds, and the people going legit will be fighting over them. If you have relatively bad upload capacity, you'll be last in line.

Part of the reason I think this is because old patches download just fine in the official patcher. When I installed a few months ago, during a big patch day, the old patches downloaded lightning quick, but the newest patch dragged and dragged. I switched to uTorrent, and I had that new patch in 20 minutes. Therefore, it seems when demand for seeds is low, competition is low, so, even if you aren't uploading much, you can high priority, and therefore download quickly using the official patcher. But when demand is high, competition is high, and if your upload amount is low, you're at the back of the line.

I'm not sure how changing port-forwarding on a router affects this, but I suspect it opens up a unique developer port for the patcher, which circumvents the upload requirements.

If this is true, then there is really no reason to worry about the PS3 updater, as PS3 updates will obviously be unique torrent files, and people won't be able to download them in third party programs unless they've someone hacked their PS3--unless the port-forwarding cheat on the router works with that patcher as well. If everyone's doing it fairly, then distribution will probably work out fine.
____________________________


#20 Oct 05 2011 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
yfaithfully wrote:

I've suspected this as well, and, if true, then the more people who use third party torrent programs with no caps, the worse the issue will be for people using the official patcher, as people who aren't uploading much will be soaking up the ever-shrinking pool of available seeds, and the people going legit will be fighting over them. If you have relatively bad upload capacity, you'll be last in line.


I don't think this is the case, because it doesn't explain why some people have NO PROBLEMS using the official updater, and others, like me, would have to wait 24 hours to get a patch that should download in 20 minutes.

If people using outside torrents and not seeding were the problem, wouldn't everyone get similarly crappy download rates? Obviously there would be some difference depending on connection speed but, yeah reasonable speeds versus my 0.01 KB a second, just doesn't make sense.

I tried port forwarding that didn't work either. I don't know what is wrong with the official updater, but considering EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE (even with tons of leechers) downloads faster than patches through the SE interface, I am pretty sure the problem isn't people going outside the interface. The problem is SE can't seem to code the simplest of things.

Besides, you're assuming everyone who downloads hits and runs.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#21 Oct 05 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
**
941 posts
Quote:
The REASON there is a torrent file in the XIV folders is BECAUSE the official updater IS A TORRENT CLIENT. SO YES, you HAVE torrented things.


Okay? Freak out more?

What I thought was being implied was torrenting from a 3rd party site - which is what I meant I do not do. I was only clarifying how I patched the game because someone thought people who finished faster may be torrenting and I was just letting people know I didn't torrent from another site.. and offered an opinion about the ISP thing...

Didn't mean to make you rage and rate down though, but... hope you feel better?

edit:

I even edited my original post for you to clarify even more. <3

Edited, Oct 5th 2011 3:52pm by EmotionBlues
#22 Oct 06 2011 at 10:49 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
EmotionBlues wrote:
Quote:
The REASON there is a torrent file in the XIV folders is BECAUSE the official updater IS A TORRENT CLIENT. SO YES, you HAVE torrented things.


Okay? Freak out more?

What I thought was being implied was torrenting from a 3rd party site - which is what I meant I do not do. I was only clarifying how I patched the game because someone thought people who finished faster may be torrenting and I was just letting people know I didn't torrent from another site.. and offered an opinion about the ISP thing...


Implying that torrenting the in-game torrent file using a WORKING tool vs. a broken updater is somehow dangerous or evil is silly. I didn't "rage" I just wanted to point out you were mistaken if you think that using SE's torrent client is somehow not torrenting.

I'm no computer expert but if it was an ISP thing, I highly doubt that EVERY OTHER torrenting program in the world would work fine, except the SE updater. Even if my ISP was somehow ONLY discriminating against the official SE updater - it is still a design flaw in SE's updater.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#23 Oct 06 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Decent
**
941 posts
Quote:
Implying that torrenting the in-game torrent file using a WORKING tool vs. a broken updater is somehow dangerous or evil is silly. I didn't "rage"


I didn't think I implied that - but if you took it that way I didn't mean to give that impression.

My whole post is literally this: Facts about the situation I obtained the patch. The torrenting comment I made, like I said, was directed at yfaithfully because he said:

Quote:
I assume it's that router port-forwarding trick. Just open the torrent file in uTorrent or another client, and you'll be fine.


And I was simply stating that's not how I did it.

Quote:
I'm no computer expert but if it was an ISP thing, I highly doubt that EVERY OTHER torrenting program in the world would work fine, except the SE updater. Even if my ISP was somehow ONLY discriminating against the official SE updater - it is still a design flaw in SE's updater.


Well, I can say for WoW that their patcher throttles you intentionally. I believe what some folks do that is either:

a.) Do something to their patcher file (I forget what, but can ask my friend at work when he gets here.)

b.) Open ports in their router.

I forget which but...WoW definitely throttles people without a doubt. Their patcher works fine though - it just takes forever.

You have to look at it from the other direction too, which I believe you or someone said above:

"Why does it work for some people but not others?"

So you immediately start looking for major differences between people:

The #1 thing is ISP when talking about downloading things, obviously.

Which is the only reason I brought it up. Is it possible your Firewall blocks some hosts or something - idk. There's more to it then just "SE's **** is broken" - because if it was truthfully broken - everyone would have the same results as you - but they don't.

I'm not saying it's working correctly - but in order to really figure out the issue there's just so much more information needed to make the determination.

I work for a massive ISP, I troubleshot everything from home internet to enterprise size government and state accounts (now I do something different, but I did my trench work already) - so I approach everything from a "get all facts first" angle. ************ downloader hates me" is great and all - but more often then not ISPs, routers, or PC software tend to be a large majority of problems.

Like I said - I'm not ruling anything out at all - but if we're really interested in figuring out if SE's downloader is **** or not we need to compare setups (I.e. why I listed all my **** in my first post) as opposed to just being like "itz brokz". I need to read up more on how the SE downloader works - my friend is more familiar with torrenting (the one who edited his WoW patcher somehow) so he may be able to give me an idea - I'll see what he says.

#24 Oct 06 2011 at 11:35 AM Rating: Excellent
****
9,526 posts
Did port forwarding etc, every thing under the sun.

Why would I waste MORE time trying to work around SE's crappy updater, when I can open the metafile folder, double click the torrent, and be done patching in 20 mins?

***** that. SE is the company, it isn't my job to figure out what is wrong with their updater. Until the patcher stops sucking, I will continue to utorrent my files. End of story.

And it can't be ignored, that this game will have a devil of a time getting new players if 1/3 of them face 24hr waits for a patch that should DL in 20 mins. Telling said players they should get a degree in computer science to work around SE's Pss poor programming isn't the solution
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#25 Oct 06 2011 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
**
941 posts
Quote:
Did port forwarding etc, every thing under the sun.

Why would I waste MORE time trying to work around SE's crappy updater, when I can open the metafile folder, double click the torrent, and be done patching in 20 mins?

***** that. SE is the company, it isn't my job to figure out what is wrong with their updater. Until the patcher stops sucking, I will continue to utorrent my files. End of story.

And it can't be ignored, that this game will have a devil of a time getting new players if 1/3 of them face 24hr waits for a patch that should DL in 20 mins. Telling said players they should get a degree in computer science to work around SE's Pss poor programming isn't the solution


You made a post about the client updater not working - are people just supposed to complain with you and not look for a solution? Why did you make a post then? Do you want or need some sympathy because of this?

Please – don’t waste more time, including mine. I was only trying to give a logical approach to troubleshooting the issue but you’re obviously elevated far above that.

Frankly, the SE updater wont ever be fixed for you because it’s most likely not the updater that’s the problem.

Like I said before – it’s very simple: If the Updater was broken it would be broken for everyone – and there would be FAR MORE THREADS and people on the official forums raising **** about it. Is that happening? No. You’re just like the annoying “I’m techy” customers who think they have it all figured out: Their VPN is slow so they blame the ISP… OR my FAVORITE…”I can’t get to X website, it must ISP name’s fault!” – No sir, if we were blocking website access we’d have 1,000 calls instead of 1 – it’s your stuff and here are some ideas.

Don’t you think if the updater was REALLY BROKEN there would be QQ threads all over the official forums about it instead of QQ threads about all the broken crap of people playing the game? Maybe everyone torrents… not.

But whatever, keep those guns blazing.


Edited, Oct 6th 2011 2:08pm by EmotionBlues
#26 Oct 06 2011 at 12:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Afe you saying it is an acceptable attitude that if you don't know how to forward ports then don't bother playing FFXIV?

That's not casual friendly.

I kept getting 30002 Error, documnted the entire 2 month process of trouble shooting, in detail, resulting in me replacing my router with a newer model to fix.

So if you aren't willing to replace your router don't bother playing FFXIV. Is that reasonable?

My newest router doesn't actually allow port forwarding above the 55,000 range. Not sure how I could have insured that it did before hand. I've taken off plenty of work days to troubleshoot FFXIV (phone support during business hours only), but this router was replaced at my house while I was at work. Should I get a 2nd replacement router?

If you aren't willing to replace your router TWICE then you should not expect FFXIV's patcher to function correctly. No. This is not acceptable.

PS3 users are going to have to indentify the IP that is assigned to their PS3, make it static and then forward ports. Do they have to do this for ANY other PS3 game? No. Because it's ridiculous.

Just becuase it works for you, on your setup, doesn't mean that it is acceptable to a company that is relying on increased number of players for its desired success.

Fix the patcher, or FFXIV fails.
#27 Oct 06 2011 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
**
941 posts
Quote:
Afe you saying it is an acceptable attitude that if you don't know how to forward ports then don't bother playing FFXIV?

That's not casual friendly.

I kept getting 30002 Error, documnted the entire 2 month process of trouble shooting, in detail, resulting in me replacing my router with a newer model to fix.

So if you aren't willing to replace your router don't bother playing FFXIV. Is that reasonable?

My newest router doesn't actually allow port forwarding above the 55,000 range. Not sure how I could have insured that it did before hand. I've taken off plenty of work days to troubleshoot FFXIV (phone support during business hours only), but this router was replaced at my house while I was at work. Should I get a 2nd replacement router?

If you aren't willing to replace your router TWICE then you should not expect FFXIV's patcher to function correctly. No. This is not acceptable.

PS3 users are going to have to indentify the IP that is assigned to their PS3, make it static and then forward ports. Do they have to do this for ANY other PS3 game? No. Because it's ridiculous.

Just becuase it works for you, on your setup, doesn't mean that it is acceptable to a company that is relying on increased number of players for its desired success.

Fix the patcher, or FFXIV fails.


I'm going to read (you're Rufus right?) that thread - because I can appreciate someone taking the time to detail steps and outline them clearly to come a conclusion. Is that error in the title thread about the patcher not working or something else?

Will update after I read.
#28 Oct 06 2011 at 12:57 PM Rating: Excellent
Yessir. Switched to my in-game name.

Feel free to add any other steps that could have been done to fix 30002, other than the replacement router. I really did exhaust them all.

I obviously really wanted to play FFXIV, including the PC purchase required. The point is, some people only kinda want to play FFXIV at first. I would much prefer the intial steps just to get into the game did not weed out all those potential players that are not willing to educated themselves on port forwarding or other troubleshooting for endless hours.

This includes the Payment Options, ack!
#29 Oct 06 2011 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent
**
941 posts
Quote:
Yessir. Switched to my in-game name.

Feel free to add any other steps that could have been done to fix 30002, other than the replacement router. I really did exhaust them all.

I obviously really wanted to play FFXIV, including the PC purchase required. The point is, some people only kinda want to play FFXIV at first. I would much prefer the intial steps just to get into the game did not weed out all those potential players that are not willing to educated themselves on port forwarding or other troubleshooting for endless hours.

This includes the Payment Options, ack!


I just finished reading your summary - you did go through a lot for that error but "being easy for new players" wasn't the point I was trying to get across.

Ultimately - no matter what - there's going to be folks who have issues with stuff that needs to be troubleshot. Fixes get made, sure - but what you need to realize is that sometimes: It is you and not them.
They can't plan for every network problem that will arise - nobody can. They can only address issues as they come. Tech Support wouldn't exist if it was possible to make something work perfectly for everyone.

Doing what you did is very mature and took an enormous amount of effort on your part, and people should not have to repeat that. However - when feedback like that is compiled and given - fixes are made.

I was responding, specifically, to the OP's issue and just trying to help. Ultimately however - no matter how much you like or dislike it - there are issues that are enduser resolved or wont ever be fixed on the SE side because it's not possible or realistic for them.

The company I work for has 30,000+ new orders in what we call "Fallout" (not processing) - this is an order system MADE BY THE COMPANY WHO PROVIDES THE SERVICE AND IS ONE OF THE LARGEST COMPANIES IN AMERICA... And we STILL have thousands of customers with system issues we can't fix, order issues in our own systems that we make, etc.

Either way - there are certain ways to go about things and you clearly outlined the good way in your thread. Like I said - I was simply trying to help and am just frustrated that people are all "Woe is me!" but will refuse to admit something may be their issue. Does that mean SE can't do something to alleviate issues for customers? No it does not - but frankly you only ever hear about the BAD experiences when dealing with this type of problem. People don't flood the forums with "WOW PATCHER IS AMAAAZING WHOOOOA" - you never see the good so the bad stands out like a sore thumb.

Anyway, good luck.



PS.

You better believe I spent a week learning about Port Forwarding when Diablo2 came out and I had to open ports to get stuff working. I'd do it all again too - do I hold that against Blizzard for all eternity? No I don't.

Edited, Oct 6th 2011 3:15pm by EmotionBlues
#30 Oct 06 2011 at 2:37 PM Rating: Excellent
Right on, I understand that the problem is on the users side some of the time. Still, percentages count. If your game is created such that, say, 50% of users are going to have trouble even getting into the game then you have not done well at all.

Example:
Download Rift's free trial with one click. Patch with two clicks. Wait a few hours. Play the game on the third click.

Now THAT is casual friendly.

PS3 games. You put in the disc and select the game you want to play from the bladed menu. So easy.

Now, add the convoluted payment options and the patcher that (as far as I can tell) will ABSOLUTELY REQUIRE your PS3 to have a static IP and port forwarding and you have reduced the number of players who will be willing to put forth that much effort to play a game in a way that is clearly going to affect the game's population and, thus, longevity.
#31 Oct 06 2011 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
****
9,526 posts
SmashingtonWho wrote:
Right on, I understand that the problem is on the users side some of the time. Still, percentages count. If your game is created such that, say, 50% of users are going to have trouble even getting into the game then you have not done well at all.


Exactly. Have had NO PROBLEMS with ANY OTHER game downloader/patcher. Not LOTRO, not Warhammer, not XI even. Maybe it is just "me" but the multiple other people who have complained about this issue, and my lack of trouble with any other game, point to a problem with the XIV patcher.

Also this thread was actually about how I tried to play after the patch, and ended up getting frozen/locked out after about 1/2 hour.

Someone else talked about the issues they had downloading and I was responding to them.

This whole chat is a digression, but it is a useful one - because it is all part of the same issue - user-friendliness.

There was a massive patch recently in XI - Added new spells, new abiltiies, raised level cap, new battlefields, and there are TONS and TONS more players than XIV. Did my game freeze and lock out my character? Nope.

The fact remains, if SE can't fix BASIC things such as simply allowing players to PLAY their game - this game is doomed.

As for why you don't see as many complaints on the forum (don't know if that is true cause I haven't scoured the technical section)

a) Only a small subset of players of ANY game use forums. That subset is probably the ones more likely to be more competent at troubleshooting

b) A lot of people who have this problem have probably already quit over it

c)I haven't posted about it in official forums because I am afraid if I explain my workaround I will get banned or something (which would be dumb, but I wouldn't put it past them)

Anyway, I definitely won't be buying a new router after already dropping $1300 on a computer to play this game.
____________________________
lolgaxe wrote:
When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.


#32 Oct 07 2011 at 5:29 AM Rating: Default
**
557 posts
Olorinus wrote:
I don't think this is the case, because it doesn't explain why some people have NO PROBLEMS using the official updater, and others, like me, would have to wait 24 hours to get a patch that should download in 20 minutes.

If people using outside torrents and not seeding were the problem, wouldn't everyone get similarly crappy download rates? Obviously there would be some difference depending on connection speed but, yeah reasonable speeds versus my 0.01 KB a second, just doesn't make sense.

I tried port forwarding that didn't work either. I don't know what is wrong with the official updater, but considering EVERYTHING ELSE IN THE UNIVERSE (even with tons of leechers) downloads faster than patches through the SE interface, I am pretty sure the problem isn't people going outside the interface. The problem is SE can't seem to code the simplest of things.

Besides, you're assuming everyone who downloads hits and runs.

No, I'm just assuming that if the official client is sensitive to your upload amount or capacity, some people--people who start the official client late, and people with low upload capacity--are going to download slower than others, and slower than people using a third party client. If you have great upload capacity, or you start the client right when the patch comes out, you might have good success with it.

Right now I'm downloading the 7/20 patch using the official patcher. Downloading around 200 KB/s. Not ideal, but not terribly slow, either. If the problem was my computer, or my ISP, why would I be getting this old patch at a decent rate right now? I know when it gets to the most recent patch, the updater is going to crawl, but if I swap to uTorrent it will come quickly. I can see no other explanation than, once I'm downloading the newest patch, the updater looks at how much of that patch I've uploaded, and throttles my download accordingly, depending on how much demand that is. Since there is very little demand for the 7/20 patch (I've uploaded 0 so far), my download isn't throttled at all.

The official patcher isn't terrible, but if anyone is using third party clients or somehow circumventing the seed requirements, the people using the patcher are at a comparative disadvantage. If you happen to have great upload capacity, it won't matter. If you don't, then your mileage may vary. If there are enough people seeding, you should do okay. If not, you'll struggle. That's why the official patcher is hot or miss, at least from my observations.
____________________________


#33 Oct 07 2011 at 7:07 AM Rating: Decent
**
941 posts
Quote:
The official patcher isn't terrible, but if anyone is using third party clients or somehow circumventing the seed requirements, the people using the patcher are at a comparative disadvantage. If you happen to have great upload capacity, it won't matter. If you don't, then your mileage may vary. If there are enough people seeding, you should do okay. If not, you'll struggle. That's why the official patcher is hot or miss, at least from my observations.


You know that is one thing I did overlook. People on DSL will typically have a lower Upload cap then someone on Cable or better. DSL typical upload cap is 768k-1k. If you are maxed out on your upload - your download rate suffers (not just for DSL, but it's easiest to cap out on a DSL line.. Cable typically has 1mb+ for upload.. I think I have 5mb) - you have to use to preverbial "tunnel" analogy to picture it:

Car tunnel. Two dirctions of traffic - Download and Upload. If your upload is capped out and overflowing - **** starts getting into the Download lane and congesting traffic.

It's VERY COMMON for our customers (as a side note: My company rhymes with a popular low level camp near Ul'dah btw) to call in with a virus or shareware - or some sort of peer-to-peer program clogging their upload and complaining of slow speed. Limewire is usually the culprit for consumers. We actually have a tool to view download/upload traffic on the network and can tell if people are "capping out" their bandwith. If upload is capped and download is suffering - you have to stop whatever is uploading to download at a reasonable rate.

Running a speed test wont tell you anything either - a speedtest just intentionally downloads a massive file(s) and records the maximum speed it can do so as. It may be more complicated then that - but that's what ours does when we make customers test at our site. I'm not sure how many ISPs have the same monitoring ability as us - but ours is pretty nifty.

Just my 2cents on upload capping.
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 16 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (16)